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Does anyone have experience with this group?

Neither of the two writers, novelist or screenplay adaptor, were born in poverty. If you're truly an artist, you don't have to experience something directly to internalize it and write about it. "Slumdog Millionaire" seems to prove the point.

Does anyone have experience with these services, including one named Smart Girls? I have been told that phone queries are the way to approach prodcos, etc. But I'd like feedback on the snail mail route. Thanks in advance. I truly enjoy the posts on this Board. Cat B. in NYC

...for February '09 for my family comedy The Kids, the President and the Apache. I had previously submitted the script for analysis, as well as to Barbara Doyon and Larry Miles, all of whom gave their customary excellent suggestions.

I literally almost gave up on this script after receiving insulting, sophomoric notes from BlueCat. So thank you, my fellow writers, for posting honest warnings on this board, and to the script gods mentioned above, and most of all, Keep Writing!

Cat in NYC

Again, fellow writers, take comments on your work with a grain of salt...

In April '08, Savvy gave The Kids a 38; my biggest killer was everything.

I revised based on that critique (and confirming critiques from others). Resubmission in November '08 raised the score to 50.

Around that time, Larry Miles advised me to cool off the hot prose in the action lines; write only what we can see, he said. Barbara advised me to hone my lead character's arc.

Irin, your score of 54 sounds higher than an HM; the month probably does make a difference. In contests that have sponsors, genre would probably have an influence, as well.

Writing screenplays has ruined my life, so I'm please to say that the winning version received a 57.

When I got my score this last time, I was thrilled at the improvement. But it wasn't perfect, so I read the notes in preparation for another revision.

It's always disappointing not to win --and I have PayPal receipts to prove it. But I try to return to the reason most of us recommend Script Savvy, win or lose. The feedback, which is the means to get the screenplay as good as it can be.

Irin and Dana, you both have high scores. I'd cull through the script and find the few remaining weak spots (which at this point have to be pin drops that only our blessed readers would hear). Then reenter so you can post about the wanks at BCat!

And send me a personal email when you do!!!

Keith, Irin and Dana: I can't imagine writing with wee ones around. Congrats to you. The Apache generation for sure!

A release form is standard practice. I've heard of this company from somewhere; they have working clients. How did you get their name?

I just joined TriggerStreet, and I'm happy to report, BlueCat has a mixed-to-bad rep over there, too!!!

Timothy, I thought you meant pee, which is more to the point anyway.

Cat NYC

I wish to enter the contest, but their site is down. I sent an e-mail; no reply.

The following message appears on a search: "You have reached the future home of austinfilmfestival.com."

Where's the present?

In typical Sunset Boulevard fashion, everyone has forgotten me, the February winner, in favor of Irin, a sweet helpful man who still has his marbles. Lucky for me I have a mansion and a swimming pool to console myself.

Have you tried TriggerStreet? Or maybe you should start a new topic on the board here. This one seems a bit exhausted.

What is a naked cannonball?

Here is my suggestion. Start a new message titled: "Springtime for Hitler", or "Peter Jackson vs. New LIne" or some other such clever title. Name names and a brief description of the problem (most will be nonpayment). That way we will have a running tally of turkey producers.

I highly recommend the ScriptforSale ProSeries. It's a major commitment that lasts for weeks, but you'll get major results. Hal Croasmun is the creator, and he gives a paradigm that will last far longer than the course. I can't say enough about this course.

If you can't make the commitment, there are less rigorous courses, like the Subtext class. But I'd suggest you go for it.

Cat NYC

Here is a place to post warnings on producers who are turkeys, nutters, givers of monkey-points or deferred compensation, and other purveyors of creative accounting.

Let's reserve this topic only for messages concerning bad experiences with producers. Any other commentary should go in another topic.

Safe Writing,

Cat NYC

Keith, I'll second your recommendation of Chris Wehner. I took a most excellent course eQuery, and Chris showed me a truly better way to write one.

Cat NYC

I just learned that the Disney Feature Writing Fellowship has been suspended indefinitely. Things like this are only supposed to happen in bad WB movies.

Cat

http://www.disneyfeaturewritingfellowshipprogram.com/

Hey, Irin,

They did leave the ABC TV writing fellowship intact.

What I'd like to know is why they cancelled the feature fellowship.

Cat

Michael and Walter,

Thanks for your logical explanations of the Disney cancellation. It's proabaly easy for them to put a writer on a TV show. Spec scripts are a different matter. And the economy...

As for diversity, I think they dropped that one from the mountain long ago, given the photos one sees here and there.

Cat NYC

Hey, you guys,

If you refer to Virtual Pitchfest, pitches are sold 10 for $90, with a free pitch edit. Each pitch goes to one exec/agent/mgr. I joined in Nov. 2007 and still have five left, plus three free ones that were thrown in as a promotion.

Here's a paste of the standard format for answers:

Pro Response: No thanks, but thank you for submitting!

Explanations and comments (if any): Nothing personal, it just didn't grab us. All but one of the responses was worded as above; obviously there's a standard button for when a query just didn't grab them. One of the answers came so fast over a weekend, my suspicions were raised to red alert.

As for the free edit, it was rewrite so hackneyed, I was embarrassed by it.

The advantage to Virtual Pitchfest is that you can see and choose the names. However, I have heard alleged elsewhere that some of the people on there might not really be on there.

A word to the wise.....Cat

You guys!!!

Sometimes I feel like no one notices anything and what I'm doing is in vain. Worse yet, that Mom is right about a career as a medical secretary. You've made my day!!

Of course you can read the screenplay. My email is cmbistransin@yahoo.com.

You're the best!!

Cat NYC

Felice,

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all wire congrats back and forth all year long!!!

Keep Rockin' Cat

Terry,

I like your attitude. You'll probably outlive us all, so viva the superficial!

Cat

I recently joined TriggerStreet, and while it isn't for everyone, you give reviews and get them in return.

If you're sensitive, don't. Some of the reviewers have been discourteous, and some have been so off I wonder when they moved here from Andromeda.

No matter. The valid reviews will make for an excellent rewrite. And it's free to join.

I'm not suggesting that anyone expend with paid services. I'll always recommend Barb, the best, IMO. But receiving notes from other screenwriters does give a certain perspective.

Best...Cat

Stephen,

The latest on the script is that I maybe should start marketing.

Cat

I have only ever heard one kind word on the Fade In comp. And it wasn't from me.

Cat

Reading a well-done SP is an excellent way to learn, in particular formatting, structure and story-telling.

Reading bad scripts is another way. I highly recommend Triggerstreet for this.

It is more than discourteous to take swipes at Barb. She is well-respected for a reason.

Cat

William,

My original intention in starting this topic was to comment on the amateur critique I received from BlueCat for a script that won Savvy.

Amaeturs tend to have bad taste, which is another form of not seeing anything.

Cat

To say that I can't take criticism rather begs the point of why I send scripts to review contests.

I wrote my original topic because I received not just an amateurish review, but one that was discouraging and full of mean-spirited personal opinions. My point is, after receiving more professional guidance elsewhere, I revised the SP and made something of it.

And no, it's not a good idea to criticize anyone in the biz on a public forum. It is, however, an act of love.

Contest winners are not the creme of crap. We are talented individuals who seek ways to give our work a nudge towards the right people.

Terry,

I don't know what "filigree, frail and fleeting" means, but I will say it's some bizarre verbiage.

But don't give up on ROCHESTER. Certainly there's room for another chance at this fascinating character. Depp's movie was heartbreakingly bad because of the script, which never rose above a morality tale. Keep at it on this one.

Cat

Julia: I am amazed! A search on the QF page for my last name yielded nothing. You've made my day!!!

Actor: Thanks for stats.

You guys are spiffy.

Cat

Patrick,

I suggest you contact Donna and point out this matter to her. She is a decent woman and I'm sure will give you a fair hearing.

Cat

P.S. The end is an odd place for a Flashback. Is the structure linear or is it fluid like "The Usual Suspects?"

My drama Marlowe! made it to the Second Round, which at Austin is the top 10% out of 4,000 entries. Also with a handwritten note. I feel bad about being eliminated, but the SP is still a contender elsewhere.

A prior version of this SP won Scriptshark Second Place a few years ago, but health problems got in the way of marketing and everything else. I resumed creative activities earlier this year.

Happy/Sad in NYC Cat

Irin's story is my story. Their Script Express got results, and they've always responded promptly -- remarkably so, really -- whenever I contact them. It doesn't sound like them, but call your credit card company before the two months is up.

Ciao, Cat

Where are you going to stay? What days will you be there?

Prior attendees, where did you stay? Did you attend the pitch? What was it like? What was your favorite event? Least favorite? Is Austin a hard city to get around without a car?

Thanks,

Cat

Andy,

I tried to pull up the short, but all I get is a comment wall with one link and someone named John Mayer on MySpace.

Cat

Hey, everybody, watch Andy's short. It's under four minutes, and the picture on the wall is hysterical.

Cat

Using so many languages is not a good idea. Readers want a story, not a Rosetta lesson.

I work in FD but run a spell check in Word, a shit-eating program to be sure, but it does catches remarkable errors.

I also search for the following: too, their, her, here, its, now, know and similar words. A major former quirk was to use "i" for "I." Although I got over that phase, I still search for "i" with space on either side.

Ciao, Cat

I'm with you, Derrick. A truly bizarre concept.

Cat

Hey, Heather,

My dates are October 20 to 27. I'm staying at The Austin Motel. I'm very excited about getting off my butt and doing something, and I'd love to meet with you.

Ciao, Cat

What's this about cinnamon rolls? What day is this?

And Irin, thanks for going out of your way to answer my questions, not just providing information, but soothing fears as well. When someone has to ask the proper measurements of business cards, you know they need help.

And Michael Murphy, thanks for the info about the panel. I have registered for it.

Ciao, Cat

I'll be there on the 20th. What time do classes start? I am NOT an early riser, cinnamon or no cinnamon.

Cat

Patrick and all of you, thanks for your insights. Stephen, your comments about writers rewriting to suit their tastes, as opposed to elevating the existing material, sums up much of what can be wrong -- and emotionally draining -- with the advice we spend our money to obtain.

Many thanks to Janet for beginning this lively discussion. What Stephen says about musical spec scripts is so true. You might try to get a local theatre to give you (at least) a reading. Here in NYC, you could actually get people to come to the phone for a musical!

Cat

I enter this contest occasionally, but I've always perceived the Expo itself to be a bit scary. And like Irin, I'd want the cred of placing at some level before embarking to L.A. Especially on such short, short, short to the point of rude, notice.

Cat

I'd definitely use that Top 30 as a marketing tool. The Nicholl is the contest. And I've never heard one complaint about it!

As for your quote, "As Eric Clapton once said, "Feelin' alright....": are you sure it wan't Steve Winwood?

Cat

Janet,

Work locally. You need to be available to workshop, promote your works and call people with invitations to readings and workshops.

Google musical theatre workshops in your city. Or just playwriting workshops, and join to get feedback on your libretto.

Tell me where you live, and meanwhile, I'll keep my eyes open. I lurk on The Playwrights' Center and other live theatre sites. Someone already said it, but you'll have an easier time selling a musical to a theatre than a prodco. Not that it's easy. None of this is easy.

Cat

Does anyone have a good example of a 90-second pitch? I don't mean how-to articles, I mean the pitch itself.

Cat

Films of the Wizard of Oz before the Garland 1939 version were egregiously bad. Even if the Garland version had been straight, it wasn't a sin to remake it.

As for Death at a Funeral, that film worked so well because of its very Britishness. The powers behind the remake say they want to expand its original niche audience. To this end, they're hiring a mostly African-American cast and giving the rewrite to a stand-up comedian and a sitcom writer. Sounds like they're six feet under already.

Cat NYC

Paula,

I'm happy for you.

Cat

Paula,

Love your math. Your theorum is much better than my eternal 39!

Cat

Look me up on TS (Cat Bistransin). Read the third comment from the top. And check out the SP's ranking out of 3,000.

I've had a couple of writers diss me like that, personal attacks. Then some are nice, but write to inform me that triple spacing above slugs is the way to go!

I think a bit of weirdness is just part of the territory.

Cat

Gad,

What a bottomfeeder, this XYZ producer. I hope everything works out to your advantage, including a legitimate listing for your filmed SP!

Cat

Frank Loesser, Guys and Dolls. I like Sinatra's version the best.

Donna's notes have been consistently among the best I've ever received, and I've had notes from just about everyone.

And with her, you have a chance to win the monthly contest, to boot.

Cat

Does Sarah Palin have something to do with screenwriting that I somehow missed?

Cat

Does anyone have experience with these people?

Their website is sparse. No prizes are listed, no employees, nor any of their industry contacts, not even judges. The entry fee is $10, and they say they hand-deliver the winning scripts.

Baffled in NY, Cat

Ace,

I can't pull up any of the urls.

Could you maybe post one of these warning blogs verbatim?

Cat

Mike,

Why is the executive's wife reading your SP? Does she work with him? What kind of executive gives his homework to his wife?

Usually, but not always, you'll be asked to sign a standard release along with the SP. And read Ron's message again. These people sound weird at best.

Cat

Yes, scripts get in through hairdressers, spouses, etc. Good for anyone who uses this route. But was that the case here? Mike's original post said the script went through an executive, not a spouse.

Either way, if aforementioned spouse was worried about litigation, then she's familiar with the process. Still sounds strange to me.

Cat

MARLOWE! is a SF here and at The Screenplay Festival.

This is a revised version, not the one that won ScriptShark Second Place in '05. Not copping attitudes on the Shark, who is a great white shark with big teeth and fine notes. But the current version is better, thanks to Barb, ScriptSavvy, Larry Miles and WILDsound. And the trolls on TStreet, the furry little fuggers.

Sometimes I use my initials (C.M. Bistransin), which ruins my name recognition but lends credibility to an action drama set in Elizabeth's England. My New Year's resolution is to start sending this out to producers.

I've never won or placed in A Feeding Frenzy, but Cheryl Herring gives excellent feedback. If that's what you want, go for it!

Bless yer heart, Mike. We all love Englishman!

Thanks for the link. The article is truly funny.

Terry is right, but sometimes you have to research the matter.

Zorro is in the public domain. The song "Happy Birthday To You" is not. The Doors' "Whiskey Bar" was written by Bertolt Brecht and Kurt Weill in 1927, not Robbie Kreiger in 1966. You'd have to check what copyright laws were in effect when they registered the song.

But you can have at it with Sleeping Beauty, etc.

I'm only familiar with TStreet. Until this past August, I was an active reviewer, till the poor quality of the SPs started to make me physically ill.

The quality of feedback you get on this site is wildly variable. Some of the reviewers give high-quality development notes; others are trolls who keenly attack whoever ends up on their review list. And there's some fluff in between.

If a reviewer trashes you or gives unconstructive criticism, you have the option of reporting the matter to the Hall of Justice. The message boards contain some serious advice.

Mike,

Your exchange with them and their response is a classic. No legit rep charges money for anything!

Cat

Mike,

That generic letter of theirs is some mighty shit writing.

Blow these people off already, would you? I tell you, they're scammers. And don't send them any money, even though the exchange rate favors you these days.

May I suggest a burger at Sticky Fingers instead?

Cat

Stephen,

You can't vote twice; I speak from experience. Maybe someone set a macro; 4,000 votes defies mathematical probabilities.

Terry, you can't vote twice. I tried.

Cat

Hey, Terry, like I said, someone probably set a macro.

My SP Summer of Kung Fu Love was one of the winners in 2007. I don't remember a tally counter or such large statistics. Granted, one of my brothers lobbied his friends for votes, but I'll be damned if he knows 8,000 people.

I smell a caveat in here somewhere...or maybe some blue poop...

I thought I suggested a macro along with my original note that you can't vote twice. My point was that while you ostensibly can't vote twice, surely you can get funky with h-t language. I must sound incoherernt at times.

In Rima Greer's book "The Real Low-Down, Dirty Truth About Hollywood Agenting," she talks a lot about how to interpret what someone in Hollywood says to you. The chapter called "25 Truths Nobody Will Tell You" is especially enlightening.

Amadeus is an odd, odd choice indeed. There's always Being John Malkovich or Juno in terms of jump-starting a career.

Peter Shaffer (charming fellow) was hardly unknown. He had already been discovered via earlier plays Black Comedy and Equus. And his brother Anthony wrote Sleuth, so he would have been in like Flynn anyway.

What gives the Done Deal opinion validity is that Amadeus had a crystal clear voice and very clean themes. It wasn't about competing composers (Mozart was clueless to Salieri's jealousy, if I remember correctly). It was about Mozart's right to be who he was, and what society loses when it sponsors the mediocre at the expense of genius.

And it caught the public's imagination. First release was $54 million domestic. God knows what it grossed in the Holy Roman Empire. It even got free publicity from the song "rock Me, Amadeus" which was played on the radio every fifteen minutes.

What Done Deal said about contests, I've heard on TStreet, from development people and elsewhere. Part of the diss is at least partly due to the sometimes poor quality of the winning entries. Not even the Nicholl is a guarantee that the work won't be, well, mediocre.

Speaking from ironical personal experience: someone at one of the contests called my sp Marlowe! the best costume drama since Amadeus. Have I sold it yet? I would have told you by now if I had, and more than once. Costume pieces are a hard sell for an unknown writer. And so is mounting a costume drama on stage, or anything else, for that matter.

So maybe contests aren't as important as we think they are. But let's not dwell on the negatives. Let's keep writing. If we stop, we've defeated ourselves.

Ciao, Cat

If the BlueCat people have taken back control of the contest, then I predict that Stephen will win.

And I don't buy that someone has such a large social network that they could garner 8,000 votes. Maybe J-Lo or Sting or Terry Rossio have numbers like that, but an unknown writer. Pul-ease. Besides, it's difficult to get 800 people to do anything, let alone 8,000.

Congrats on your book, but I think Michael Eisner has left the building.

Witty banter is not a genre. Go with Thriller. And good luck.

Hey, Ben,

Thanks for the invitation. Have joined. Love your software.

Cat

Add my thanks for posting this series of articles.

George,

Have you ever won or placed in a contest?

Why are you quoting the closing line from WITNESS?

Your real name wouldn't by any chance be.....Dan, would it?

Cat

Hey, Mike!

I had no idea Marlowe! made Finalist. I thought the SP was eliminated in the prior round. Thanks for the email and post, and congrats to Irin.

Cat

Do the rewrite. Don't send out your script till it's ready. QF is great, but not a high placement. If you don't rewrite, what's the point of entering feedback contests?

As I understand it from friends who have read SPs for prodcos, they have an "audition" process, during which the potential reader writes a sample in that company's preferred style.

As for contests, I have never been disappointed with or appalled by feedback from:

Barb Doyon at Extreme Screenwriting Donna White at Script Savvy Cheryl Herring at A Feeding Frenzy

. . . in no particular order. These perceptive and helpful professionals all have great reputations for a reason.

Good luck to us all!

Cat

The only company site I could find is on mandy.com. Very strange not to list the company's names. It's a little too secretive for me.

Not having been intimidated by the collective vomit fest for her first film, Madonna will direct -- and WRITE -- a screenplay about Wally Simpson and the abdication crisis.

No doubt Madonna knows scandal, but I wonder if she's read "Story."

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118015190.html?categoryId=3534&cs=1

Scott,

Congralations. Your story sounds simply charming. I hope you get lots of reads from the contests.

All this and New Zealand, too!

Cat

I pulled her up under Hollywood Scriptwriting Contest (HSI). The link labeled Hollywood Scriptwriting Institute is down. I guess we'd better put the cork half-way back on.

John Schimmel sounds like a well-rounded individual with experience in development, consulting and writing. But generally, if you want notes, go to a consultant. My opinion of let's-hang-out-a-shingle-because-we're-unemployed development executives is that they're useless. Just useless.

Always look for opinions on the consultant's name on the net, not their sites. Don't be sucked in by their industry contacts to whom they might send your SP; they won't. Also, there are threads on TStreet and DoneDeal on D-execs.

Script Express isn't a listing site, they blast emails about your SP. I did get a lot of reads from their service, although I can't say how it works normally; mine SP was promoted as a contst winner (Script Savvy).

Mike,

Congrats on your radio production, and thanks again for helping me with AFF.

Cat

Bobbette,

That is a KILLER title. Very compelling. Good luck with it.

Cat

Nick,

I can't find this periodical. Can you give us the info on this contest?

Cat

Hey, Stephen, thanks. I hadn't seen their site. I truly appreciate it.

Good luck to us all.

Cat

Hey, Mike, I quite loved your travelogue. Truly funny. Inventive structure. And I'm glad the customs freak didn't murder you.

Whoever is reading this, check out Mike's article; access is at the left top of the MB home page.

Cat

I feel worse, Terri, and after I finished, I looked for the by-line -- Lynda Obst-- and went back to bed.

Cat

I am so pleased for you!!! May you be swamped with requests for reads, without having to write your own release form, or better yet, sell the thing!

Cat NYC

I've tried to pull up the spike comedy pilot competition and get everything but. Does anyone have a proper link?

In comedy, character is king -- the more detailed, the better, especially if you can get some ethnicity in there. Ready to usurp the king is the tone of it.

Buoina fortuna.

I'm not a professional yet, but I've read tons of unsold SPs. The most common mistake is not to pick a lead character and follow that character from beginning to end. I can't emphasize enough how the lack of a clear lead slays killer concepts and great stories. I've seen this problem even in SPs that have won prominent contests, which might be part of the reason Hollywood has developed an attitude towards contests.

Classes are alright if you get an instructor who is a working screenwriter. Workshops allow you to hear your writing aloud, but often don't include instruction via lectures. This renders the room only as good as the best person in it.

I found The Art of Dramatic Writing to be academic, difficult to read and somewhat of a waste of time. The best is Story by Robert McKee, although he tends to be dogmatic on occasion. But books didn't help me before I had been writing a while because I couldn't internalize what was being said.

Good luck with all your endeavors.

P.S. Avoid Hollywood execs who claim they take great SPs to their fantastic contacts. They don't and they won't.

A beat is a change in the direction of the dramatic action. . .

This is a triumph for all of us. Congratulations.

What can I say? Best wishes, and keep us posted.