Message Board

Very few people appear to be ambivalent about BlueCat. They either love it or hate it. I'm in the latter category -- I thought my feedback was bogus. I actually got into a brief e-mail exchange with Gordy. There's no doubt in my mind that his intentions are good, but there's just not much quality control he can do. Some of his readers are great, and equal number are terrible. I'm going to steer clear of contests where I MIGHT get a qualified reader.

I was just curious if anyone's used their coverage service? I got coverage back that gave me a "consider."

While I was pleased, the cynic in me wonders if this is grade inflation. Would love to hear of others' experience.

Irin...would you mind sharing who your two script analysts are?

It's my understanding that the contestants who made the first cut were all notified via e-mail.

Bobbette, I believe it's the top 10% of all contestants that make the quarterfinals -- so there'll be around 440 rather than 140.

Hi Bobbette,

I'm pretty sure we had to designate one genre above all the others so there's no chance the same script will place in two different categories.

Then again...I've entered so many contests over the years -- Script Savvy, BlueCat, Nichols, Zoetrope, Screenwriters Expo, Page, etc. -- that I'm real fuzzy on the specifics of each individual one. :-).

Good luck to all who made it! Alas, I'm not one of them. Only thing to do is to keep drinking, er, no, meant, keep writing.

This is like paying someone to rewrite your script -- insane!

If there were ONE PERSON who used this and got a script sold, I'd say it's worth looking into. The fact that NO ONE HAS EVER SOLD A SCRIPT THIS WAY means one thing and one thing only: scam.

I have to disagree, Dan, with "But what I will say on this subject you'll always get what you paid for!"

Too many times I got significantly LESS than what I paid for. Heck, too many times I've gotten out and out ripped off.

Does anyone know if the contest is looking for positive characters? My screenplay isn't like Training Day, but my protagonist is just as unlikeable.

I wonder if it's a good idea for me to enter.

They have great communication! I asked them about the protagonist -- whether he/she has to be likeable -- and they e-mailed back that he/she doesn't.

john p brings up interesting points, BUT...PAGE is not failing to meet deadlines. In the e-mail I received from them, I was told to expect feedback by the end of this month. If they don't do that, then, sure, I think it's something to discuss.

Whether they SHOULD get the feedback out sooner is irrelevant. Their proceeding according to the very clear timeline they laid out.

And I'm no shill, here -- I didn't make the QTs!

I, too, have to confess to using a pseudonym. Perhaps I'm being overly paranoid, but I want to leave honest feedback about contests -- and, well, I'm afraid there might be payback if I attack a contest. Granted, I don't have any intention of re-entering contests I've attacked, but you never know.

Life is like high school...with no summer vacation. Cheers!

-- Nick, perhaps I should change my named to Confused-ius.

I submitted a script to them that got a "consider" from Scriptapalooza and got a "pass" from them. Now, this doesn't really bother me -- I'm looking for feedback that will help with a rewrite. What bothers me is that ScriptShark said my protagonist doesn't change. To me, it's blatantly obvious the protagonist changes. Scriptapalooza didn't mention this as a fault -- and, despite the consider, they did point out what needed work.

I dunno. I'm curious to hear of other people's experience with ScriptShark.

I'm glad your experience was better, Steven. It's not the "pass" that bothered me, it's the complete misreading of my protagonist's arc that's upsetting. I'd have no problem if the criticism was, "I didn't buy your progaonist's change." But to say he doesn't change???

At any rate, I probably should've had a less incendiary MB title. Still...I am curious to hear other peoples thoughts -- and thanks for sharing yours.

"Slamming anyone in the biz on a public board is self-destructive."

If by "slamming" you mean making an "unwarranted attack on someone," yes, I agree with you. But if you paid good money for something and feel that you didn't get value for your money, I think it's an obligation to tell others about it.

Writers get criticized all the time. Why the heck should script consultants not get criticized? Barb, Gordy...it doesn't matter, they're big boys and girls. I sure hope they can take the heat. If they can't, well, you know what they say...

EXT. EARTH - DAY

The earth explodes. Everyone dies.

FADE OUT: THE END

That shoud be, FADE OUT: on the right, THE END after you hit return in the middle.

Believe me...I don't think my scripts are perfect. If I did, why would I send them out to get feeback? I'm looking for ways to improve it. But when you're worried that your protagonist's change is too steep and the feedback received says the problem with your protagonist is he doesn't change, then, well, you're going to feel that your script wasn't read. And, since you paid money for the coverage, you'll feel ripped off.

Since I've only dumped on people, I should take a moment here to praise someone -- Scott the Reader. He charges 60 bucks. Every script I've sent to him, he's torn to shreds. He reads them carefully, though, and that's why I keep coming back.

Google Alligators in a Helicopter and you'll find him.

Well...I looked in my bag, and sure enough...my rock was there. Only thing to do is dusts oneself off and get back to writing!

Best of luck to those still in it!

Mike...they definitely don't tell everyone they're top 15%

Mike...they definitely don't tell everyone they're top 15%

I've been Googling Jim Mercurio...and don't see any red flags. I'm leaning toward entering the contest. I'll wait till the last minute, though. Hopefully, more people will reply to this thread.

Perhaps I'm being naive here. But with technology being the way it is -- e-mail, video conferencing, etc. -- does one REALLY need to be in LA?

Anybody else having the darnedest time trying to enter via Without a Box?

Anybody else having the darnedest time trying to enter via Without a Box?

I think we all know how subjective contests are -- a script that doesn't even place in once contest, is a finalist in another.

My guestimate is 5 contests at the most for a script -- a total investment of around 300 bucks. If you're not a finalists in one of those 5 contests, your script is probably not that strong.

Aside from Scott the Reader -- who is absolutely worth it -- I don't know of a good 60 bucks coverage guy or gal.

I know some bad ones, but I'll refrain from dumping on them for now.

Sorry about your experience, Ron. That sucks -- hopefully it can be rectified.

Bobbette...me, too, I'm going down to the wire in terms of entering. I'm leaning against it, though -- just too afraid of sending the wrong script.

I thought you were kidding, Stephen! All I can say is...interesting.

Hi Bobbette,

I was all set to enter Champion...but the Without A Box thing really bothers me. Why is it so damn complicated?

I have entered the script in Page and Nichols. Alas, no dice. It was a script that got a "consider" from Scriptapalooza coverage.

I'm left wondering...was the "consider' grade inflation or, since I did the rewrite based on the coverage, did I just not do a good job of rewriting?

Be that as it may, if you do enter, I wish you the best!

My primary complaint with coverage is the scripts are skimmed, not read. Well...that's not the case with Mr. Brown. No doubt he reads the script thoroughly and, man oh man, does not pull any punches. All we can ask is for an honest reaction to our scripts -- and he gives it. Brutal though it may be.

Anybody else use Story Sense?

Hi Bobbette, I should've clarified about changes based on the coverage -- I just put a little expostion here, strengthened a scene there, tied up an inconsistency over there...that kind of thing. I'm really worried that Scriptapalooza's too nice -- I just got my butt handed to me by Michael Ray Brown over at Story Sense, but he did give me some (fundamental) things to think about.

You can get logline help over at Zoetrope -- sometimes people come up with some good stuff, other times, it's not so good. But, heck, it's free.

As for the synopsis...you wrote the script, you know what happens, why not write it yourself? Why spend money when you don't need to?

Hi Bobbette,

I decided to pass -- I'm looking at entering the Screenplay Expo. That'll probably be the last contest for me this year.

Best of luck!

What's going on with this contest? Some of the posters at the Contest Comments section seem to imply that scores are given out. Really?

Be that as it may..,if they have the list of QTs, why don't they post it on their site? To say nothing of sending out a mass e-mail.

Suffice it to say, this is the last time I'm entering this contest.

Hi Bobbette,

If they already have the list, why not post it or send it out? Seems odd.

What's really gettting me are these comments, http://www.moviebytes.com/ContestDetail.cfm?CommentsTab=TRUE&ContestNumber=558

Perhaps all the posters have grudges, but I doubt it. It doesn't seem a well run contest at all.

It seems obvious they don't have the quaterfinalists yet. I bet they're still reading scripts -- not all, though, but enough so it'll look like they read them all (kinda like when you do a last minute book report and skim the novel). In other words, it's highly doubtful our scripts are being read carefully.

I'm definitely not entering again.

I just skimmed the letter...is there an explanation for the delay in notifying quarterfinalists? They CLAIMED to have the list on a Friday, but didn't post it on their website or send out an e-mail until Wednesday (give or take a few days here; the point being, you have the list, you post it that day -- how hard is that, after all?).

While I have no doubt the winning scripts are great scripts, I have huge doubt all the scripts were read. All you can ask for is a fair chance; I doubt everyone got one. Just my opinion, of course.

Why not do it yourself? Spellcheck takes care of most spelling errors (a dictionary will take care of the rest). As long as your grammar is not egregiously bad, you don't have to be 100% correct in a screenplay. And one reading wth a fine-toothed comb should be enough to spot and correct most (but not all) typos.

David is DB Gillis, right? I used him once. He was too nice, frankly. Based on his critique, I thought I had a million dollar sale on my hands (I never used a coverage service before)...found out, of course, that that wasn't even close to being the case.

I'd rather have a script torn to shreds, then overly-praised.

My bad.

DB Gilles, btw, has written two great books -- one on screenwriting, one on filmmaking. I highly recommend them. As for his coverage...well, no need to get into that again.

I submitted Sept. 1 and haven't heard anything.

Sounds like you're running into a lot of Simon Cowell wannabes. While being rude is juvenile, it doesn't necessarily mean the criticism is wrong.

Are your scripts being read carefully? Is there -- beneath the snarkiness -- a validity to the critiques? If so, I'd shrug off the rudeness and continue using them. (We all need to develop a thick skin.) If not, you're probably better off spending your money on lottery tickets. (Do the same if you're getting overly-praise worthy, your-screenplay-totally-rocks, coverage.)

I haven't received anything yet. Are they sending out the higher scores first?

I'm afraid if I went out trick-or-treating tonight, I'd come back with a rock.

Anybody know what's going on with this contest? On their site, they say the top 100 will be notified by 10/31.

They did send out an e-mail, but it had the top 5 or perhaps 6 hundred scripts. They've sent nothing since.

While I was glad to be on the list, discovering it wasn't the top 100 was a little dispiriting.

Cheryl:

On December 16th, what will they announce? The top 100?

Irin:

I think the 7% clause is still in there. My personal feelings are, I've made nothing in screenwriting, so I probably would agree to a 70% cut. You've had a lot of success, so your situation is a lot different.

I'm not sure InkTip is worth it for anything. I have three scripts up there, all got "considers" from Scriptapalooza...and yet I've only gotten a few logline nibbles -- all from small, unheard-of companies. My scripts are in the $10 million+ category.

I have yet to have anyone look up any of my synopsis'.

My scripts could very well be crap, but it'd be nice if reputable companies actually took a look at my loglines and synopsis' and came to that conclusion. Anything's better than being ignored. Especially when it cost you money.

Has anyone entered before? It looks good, but I'm surprised it's generated so few comments. Is there a catch?

I've had three scripts up there for a month. I've had maybe a total of 12 logline views for each. None from LA Film's. BTW, none of the companies that checked my loglines have significant IMDB credits (if they have any credits at all).

All this is my preamable to...save your money! Don't list on InkTip. I believe their intentions are good...but they just don't have any juice in Hollywood. None at all.

Okay, I'm biased because I feel I wasted a lot of money using InkTip, but, here's a question -- if you are a company that's looking for screenplays, why would you be exclusive about it? Wouldn't you want as many people to respond as possible? Seems logical that the more people who respond, the better your chances are of getting a good script.

If you're starting a softball team and you want to win it all, would you ask only a few people to try out, or would you ask everyone to try out?

The main question, though, is -- how many people have gotten scripts produced after signing up for the preferred newsletter?

Thanks for the update. It gives me another week to build up my hopes...only to get crushed. Fortunately, my dating experience in high school (or lack thereof) has prepared me for this.

They're not answering e-mails. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we've all been had.

Wow, what is it...the top 300? Does anyone know how the process works? Are our scripts read anew after every round?

Treatment, huh? That's the one thing I don't do. That must be what's holding me back.

Seriously...thanks for the advice, Stephen! Best of luck!

I took a Syd Field course years ago. Didn't learn anything that wasn't covered in his books. I don't see how this would be any different.

Just curious, but why no love for Screenplay Shootout? One of the winning scripts is in production right now.

That's one more than a lot of other contest.

It doesn't matter. The companies that use InkTip are small time -- at best. Very few have IMDB credits. The ones that do have credits for incredibly low budget movies (movies that might have been shown on access cable, but that's it). Fortunately for you, you didn't have to pay. Hate to be a downer about this, but it's the truth. Congrats, btw, on the win.

Brian K. Watanabe got second place in 2006 for Rogue's Gallery. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1268987/

Thanks, Jim and Irin. I never thought to Google the winning script -- just went from the Shootout site to IMDB. D'oh!

No wonder there wasn't much buzz about Shootout. Oh, well, I only entered 3 scripts in it.

I wish I had a good answer, Bobbette, but, frankly, I don't know...sure, we should write for ourselves, because we have to get these stories out on paper and it doesn't matter whether Hollywood "validates" them or not.

And, yet, well...wouldn't it be awesome if our script got made into a movie? Placing well in a contest MIGHT be a way of achieving that. But contests cost money...and it's agonizing waiting for the results to come in.

I guess my conclusion is, if you can afford it, enter contests, but try not to sweat about them.

To quote the football coach, Bill Parcells, "you are what your record is."

How many scripts have BC and 3RE sold for clients? How many writing assignments did they get for their clients? I'd bet the answers to both are, zippo.

If they haven't done anything for other writers, they won't do anything for you. Except take your money. Hate to be so negative here, but, well, if it looks like a scam, sounds a like a scam...

I entered a few years back and for the life of me, I can't recall if it was a good or bad experience. Since I don't remember, it probably was an ennnh experience. But I'm curious to hear what others have to say about this.

My fear is, he may be too nice. No one likes to be criticized harshly, but sometimes that's the best medicine -- I don't want any sugarcoating. I'm a big fan of DB Gilles' books, but I tried his service once and will never use him again. Based on his coverage, I thought I had a huge sale on my hands.

Steven:

I'm a little puzzled as to why a screenplay that gets positive reviews needs to be revised 5+ times. Have you had other consultants look at it?

I'm not trying to imply anything, I'm just curious.

Thanks for that info, Steven! Would you mind sharing who the other consultants are?

Right now, I use Scott the Reader and Scriptapalooza. As well as friends. I'd love to what others have to say about Scott and 'palooza.

Jim,

How long does it take to get coverage?

Hmmm...a very sad feline comes to mind. I had the same experience you had and wrote the contest director. While I absolutely did not doubt the contest director's sincerity in wanting to help writers, I think there's a huge problem with that contest not having enough qualified readers. While I hope there wouldn't be paypack, if you do e-mail the contest, I'd advise using a pseudonym.

Sun,

Would you mind sharing who the other script consultants you used were?

Great point, Irin. It's a huge pet peeve of mine the idea that with some genres, the reader doesn't matter. Some people aren't into action movies. How many straight guys are into chick flicks?

It's not fair to the writer to have a reader who, from the get go, is not receptive to your screenplay. This happens far to often in contests. That's what makes PAGE and SCRIPTSAVVY so great.

Gee, that sucks about PAGE. I had a lot of respect for them. I couldn't agree more about extensions: it's unfair to the people who submit on time!

"UCLA MFA Screenwriter" in the contest comments section has a rather sobering take on Scriptapalooza.

Hi Cat:

A user calling himself "UCLA MFA Screenwriter" posted his critique of the Scriptapalooza competition in the Contest Comments section of Moviebytes. Here it is, in full:

UCLA MFA Screenwriter Posted: 03/29/2010 05:35 PM I'm a UCLA MFA graduate who has placed as a semifinalist or higher in scriptapalooza several times. I've also placed in several other competitions and at this point, I don't think I'll ever enter Scriptapalooza again.

As much as I'd love to say this contest is useful -- I haven't had much success with it. I was contacted by ONE judge who loved the script and wanted to pass it along to his colleagues -- but nothing came of that. I've had better responses from blind queries!

And I can second what other posters have said. I received over a dozen emails after placing as a quarterfinalist in the Nicholl -- among other contests.

I think the biggest problem with this competition is that there's almost no chance for your script to get a fair read. I met a judge who openly admitted Scriptapalooza has him reading approximately 100 scripts and he only has one month to do it! So in his spare time outside work on weekday evenings and weekends (when he is not taking scripts home from work to read) -- he is reading 100 scripts for this contest? Flat out -- he's only going to skim through them or read the first 10 pages. If that. So it's no surprise that this contest passes up great scripts every year. I have a former classmate who didn't place in the contest at all, but sold his script to a MAJOR studio for six figures.

I know. I know. Ten page reads are a common tale in the industry and it's something we should all be prepared for. Agents and Managers frequently only read 10 pages or so -- unless they LOVE it -- so that's normal, right? Well, sure. But with this contest you're paying $50 assuming that you're getting considered. Normally, agents (if you can get them to read your work) do so for free. If you're okay throwing away $50 per script on the chance that you'll get a fair read, then by all means enter. Personally, I think my money is better spent on a contest with better odds.

Make no mistake -- MOST screenwriting competitions are out to make money off you. The ONLY reason they like when you succeed is that it helps them promote their competition as credible. But their goal is the bottom, not promoting your work. Only YOU -- or your representation -- can truly promote yourself or your scripts.

The only contests that seem to truly be out to discover and nurture new writing talent (and NOT their bottom line) are the Nicholl, Cinestory, the ABC/Disney Fellowship, the former Chesterfield Writer's Film Project and a SMALL handful of others. Those contests don't turn a profit -- they use the entrance fees (if they even require one -- ABC does not) to fund the prizes and fellowships that are associated with them. The readers for most of those contests VOLUNTEER their time (again, except for ABC -- but they have no entry fee to begin with).

That said, the one thing this contest (and others like it) would be good for -- is to use as a barometer for your script. If you make it through the gauntlet and place, you know the script is on the right track. If you win or end up a finalist, you probably are close to a level where the script can be sent out to the industry.

It's also great if you are a new writer looking for things to put on your resume or query letters. Placing in a contest will open doors for you. Most people say that blind queries don't work anymore -- but I've had success with queries because I have a degree from UCLA and a contest win under my belt. Anything that can set you apart from the pack is worthwhile.

Andrew:

I hear what you're saying. I got feedback from Script Savvy that I didn't agree with, but...all one can ask is that one's screenplay is read thoroughly -- and that is definitely the case with SS. I've entered before, and I'll probably enter again.

Bobbette, take a look at what a poster caling himself/herself "UCLA MFA Screenwriter" has to say about Scriptapalooza in the Contest Comments section. Rather sobering. Other than Nichols, I'd be very wary of entering non-feedback contests. I mean, contests that offer feedback sometimes just skim our scripts, imagine what contests that don't offer feedback do?

I've entered four times and each time I got feedback on the second or last day of the month. I usually submitted near the deadline, so perhaps if you submit earlier, they send it out sooner.

"I just simply think there is no excuse for not getting AT LEAST ONE READ, if you make it in the top 10."

Couldn't agree more. If a contest can't deliver reads, what's the point of entering?

Bobbette:

I've yet to hear of a good e-query service.

The best value to me is Scott the Reader. He charges $60 and gives you a no-holds-barred critique.

Google Alligators in a Helicopter.

Martin,

Well... I both agree and disagree with you. I like the fact that Janet's giving us her no-holds-barred opinion about these contests. When someone reads our screenplay, alll we can ask for is their honest opinion. Likewise, I want to know someone's honest opinion about contests.

Having said that, I'm using a pseudonym, so I definitely agree that it's probably not a good idea to use one's own name when giving these contests the business. But some of these contests should definitely be given the business.

Wow, Heather... that was quite an experiment. I'm reminded of the Mr. Boffo cartoon where the protagonist has a look of both despair and insight and says, "It's all one big crapshoot!"

The caption reads: "People Clear of the Concept."

Jim,

When should early entrants in your contest expect feedback?

2 to 3 weeks from now or from the date we entered?

Thanks for posting. VERY informative.

One of my biggest pet peeves about feedback is when it's obvious the reader is not into the genre of your screenplay. There are some people who are just not into, for example, horror. And if they get assigned your horror screenplay, well, you may as well forget about any chance of advancing.

Bobby, I hear you. Extending deadlines is bush league and PAGE should be better than this. Having said that, I really like how PAGE is set up (scripts divided by genre) and their feedback is good ( this is coming from someone who didn't do well in the contest last year).

Bobbette, I agree completely. I think most of us want reads rather than prize money (not that $25 Gs is anything to sniff at).

I have to say, too, that when a contest extends its deadlines and you don't get feedback...I'd really wonder if my script was read carefully. So, I don't think you're just looking at $70, you probably would want to pay for feedback as well.

That's terrible, Paul. If Filmmakers.com accepted your entry fee in a timely fashion, I don't see why they shouldn't send out your winnings in a timely fashion. Failing that, however, they should have contacted you and said there will be a delay and provide the reason as to why.

The fact that you can't even communicate with them makes your use of the word "scam" perfectly justified. I hope they're just sleeping on the job, though, and they deliver all the things they promised. If not, can you contact the Better Business Bureau? There must be something you can do.

I signed up almost as soon as they started up. You can post your synopsis of your screenplay and every week or so, you get a lead on a production company or agency. I've posted several synopsis' and sent out at least 20 queries. I haven't gotten a single response.

I'll do my best to keep everyone posted. Like InkTip, I believe their intentions are good...I'm just not sure if they have any juice.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

I'm all for optimism, but...it could be a way to encourage people to keep entering contests. Consider the source, after all.

Janet, I'm all for people writing and being creative. I just think people should be extremely suspicious of the motives of screenplay contests. I'm speaking generally and not trying to pick on PAGE.

No. I have no problem with a studio or agency being dismissive of my screenplays, but not a screenplay competition that I'm paying money to read my script. The entire script. I could list about a thousand good movies that didn't dazzle me in the first 2 minutes. To dismiss a screenplay after just 2 or even 10 pages is BS. After 30, okay...I can understand, though not accept -- unless the contest explicitly states that one's entire screenplay might not be read.

I'd love to rip on this judge some more, but she's just being honest. If we don't get feedback on our scripts, the chances are extremely good they are not being read.

*She should have written it as a "things that annoy a reader" (and there are dozens of similar posts on the net from other readers) but she didn't.*

I agree completely. A lot of what she said had merit. Let's face it, while I don't agree that 10 pages is enough to gauge the quality of a screenplay (maybe the writer started too early and the script really begins on page 11), sloppy writing and bad formatting in the beginning are alarming signs that the script probably sucks.

M. Night has really lost his way. On the other hand, Airbender did 70 mil in its opening week, so I don't think anyone's going to discourage him from keeping on keeping on. God help us all.

P.S. Happy b-day!

Well said, "Walter." The argument that "this is how producers and studios do it" is completely specious. Last time I checked, producers and studios don't charge to read scripts. At least reputable ones don't.

The blogger made some good points and if contests made it clear that "unless your first 10 knocks our socks off, we're not reading on," then fine, there would be no hullabaloo at all.

"Nick"

Gosh, I hope this is true. I have five scripts right now. Alas, it took me 20 years to write them. Hopefully, it won't take another 20 to write the next five.

At the end of the day, though, whether we "make it" or not, the time spent writing isn't a waste. Face it, if we weren't writing, chances are extremely good we'd be channel or web surfing.

Please reconsider, Bobbette!

Good for you! And a great lesson for all of us -- if we want to work in film, we should not just be writing scripts, but making films as well!

If you have to ask if you're super cool, you're not.

Ultimately, if we can't come here and have a good time, what's the point?

Does anyone know how many entrants there were?

Thanks for the info!

I'm done with them -- both the contest and their coverage service. I've never advanced at Scriptapalooza, okay, fine...but all the scripts I've entered got "considers" from their coverage service. So, on the one hand, I'm told my scripts aren't good, and on the other, I'm told that Hollywood should consider them...which is it? It can't be both.

I can't escape the feeling that the "considers" are just their way of getting me to remain a customer.

Didn't read the blog, but one would be insane to get an MFA in screenwriting. After all, how much is there to learn about the subject? Frankly, even a BA in screenwriting sounds like a huge waste of money.

If you're going to film school, study cinematography, editing, directing, sound. You can probably learn that stuff on your own, but having a teacher showing you hands on how to do it helps immeasurably.

Why? Does the fact that people use pseudonyms at IMDB invalidate their reviews? Using a pseudonym, I have no reason to lie about a contest or consultant.

But whether I'm lying or not, so what? This is a message board. It'd behoove all of us not to take anything we read hear too seriously.

My understanding is that finalists will be able to submit a rewrite of the screenplays for final judging. Does anyone know when the deadline for that is?

Thanks Stephen and Irin.

Good for you, Irin! That is one kickass logline!

If you participated in the last contest and paid for feedback, have you received it yet?

I'm still waiting for mine. Other than contacting the Better Business Bureau, what options do I have here?

Thanks, Ron! Geez, I vowed at the beginning of the year to enter as few contests as possible and only those that offered feedback. D'oh! At any rate, this was my third and last experience with Creative Screenwriting.

The only reason I want feedback is to make sure my scripts are read. Other than Nichols, I have huge doubts whether our scripts are read when no feedback is offered.

I hear you, Irin. After entering pretty much every contest, I'm limiting myself to Nichols, Script Savvy, and Page. Possibly Champion. While not always agreeing with them, I have no complaints about the feedback I've gotten from SS, Page, and Champion.

One should be very wary of entering contests where you don't get feedback. I guarantee that a lot of scripts aren't being read. They only contests without feedback I trust are Nichols and Kaos.

Irin, did you enter this contest again??? If so, why?

Don't get the logic of, "everyone I've shown this script to thinks it's a B-level script (at best), so let me upload it at Amazon Studios!"

Why? So if someone actually reads it there, they can unload on you in their review?

Has anyone SOLD a script through this service? If not, buyer beware.

So many of these companies promise you access. To who? Some intern at Warner Brothers? Even if the intern loves your work, so what?

There comes a point, also, where the law of averages kick in. If 1000s of people use a service, at least a handle of the scripts should be salable. If a company has no track record of selling anything, it's them, not you.

I'm not saying VPF is not legit, I have no idea, but I've been ripped off enough times to be rather bitter about it and honestly, anything I can do to help someone else not get ripped off, I'll do. Hence, buyer beware.

I'd love nothing more than to hear of spec writers making sales via VPF. I'll be the first one to say, I was wrong.

Now, if, after a couple years of giving your money to VPF, you realize it was money wasted, I hope you will be responsible enough to admit you were wrong.

All I'm really saying is, watch out for snake oil salesman. We spec writers are their number one prey.

LOL. None of those "successes" makes me want to run out and join VPF.

Options mean nothing. Rep means something, but it depends on who is doing the representation. Sales. That's everything.

My last word on this: I sincerely hope you and everyone who uses this service get your money's worth.

Are you being satirical? If not, it's odd that you would shill for a writing competition by composing a post full of grammatical errors.

Also, as someone else pointed out before, just because a script contest says their winners went on to sell their scripts, it doesn't mean the script contest had anything to do with it. The winning script could've been entered in several different contests. Who knows which contest is responsible for the sale?

Or, it could've been sold as the result of a query.

It's a real shame. While I sometimes disagreed with their feedback, I had to respect the fact that my scripts were read thoroughly and honestly -- and that's all one can ask.

I'll never enter this contest again, though. The delays (or perhaps outright failure to deliver) are ridiculous.

The thing about contests is... wrong reader + wrong time = your script has no chance. If you write a brilliant horror movie but the reader's not a fan of horror, or perhaps is okay with horror but not in the mood for one at the time of the reading, your script's going nowhere and you've thrown away your money.

A sad situation all around. Script Savvy was one of the few contests I could tell people to enter without fear of being ripped off.

Its good name is gone and, frankly, no matter what they do, they'll never get it back.

Great point, Happy! And one that more and more people are making these days. Thank goodness!

This if for those who have entered and are whining incessantly: there is nothing stopping you guys from marketing your scripts elsewhere. I have it on good authority that unless you've received money from them, they can't hold you to the 18 month option.

So quit yer whining and market your scripts as though you never entered them at Amazon.

Unless you're looking for an excuse why your not living it up as a screenwriter in Hollywood and you need to blame someone else.

Let's say he's right, all one has to do is change the title, rename the characters, and write a different logline and the chances of anyone finding out the script belongs to Amazon is nil.

Anyway, much respect to you, sir. You didn't think much of the Amazon contest, so you didn't join. I have no respect for the people who joined, then started whining about it.

If you charge people for a service, either provide that service or refund the money. One or the other. Anything else is fraud and should be dealt with accordingly.

What's going on in her personal life--as sad as it is--is irrelevant.

Would it be okay for a teacher not to teach his students because he was looking after an ill parent?

Before you pay to go to a pitchfest, do your research. If no one who's participated in one has ever gone on to make a sale or get representation from a reputable agency...you're wasting your time and money.

A lot of times companies send interns to listen to the pitches, so you're pitching to a 20 year old kid who, even if he liked your story, wouldn't be able to do a darn thing about it.

Amazon Studios is the best thing around for people with no connections. It's not perfect by any means, but what is?

PROS

No entry fees Chance to win big bucks One month turnaround in judging If you're willing to recip reviews, you can get great feedback

CONS

18 month AS option on your work The judging is very subjective (but this is a con against all contests)

I'm sure someone else will come around and post a million other cons for not joining -- and I can't say they wouldn't be valid.

All I can say is, doesn't hurt to go to the site, check it out, and decide if it's for you.

Slightly more aesthetic post:

Amazon Studios is the best thing around for people with no connections. It's not perfect by any means, but what is?

PROS

1. No entry fees 2. Chance to win big bucks 3. One month turnaround in judging 4. If you're willing to recip reviews, you can get great feedback

CONS

1. 18 month AS option on your work 2. The judging is very subjective (but this is a con against all contests)

I'm sure someone else will come around and post a million other cons for not joining -- and I can't say they wouldn't be valid.

All I can say is, doesn't hurt to go to the site, check it out, and decide if it's for you.

Einstein said, paraphrasing here, that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Script Savvy was once a great contest. It no longer is. Why people are still entering this contest is baffling.

First of all, they don't deliver on what you paid for. Second of all, do you think anyone in Hollywood's going to be impressed with your winning or placing in Script Savvy? Maybe in the past they were, but not now.

In essence, Script Savvy had a great thing going... and they blew it. (And yes, I'm aware of the extenuating circumstances... but don't we all have them? And don't we all know that we can use them as excuses not to do our jobs?)

"For those who don't know: BlueCat openly recruited readers on Craigslist and on such industry job boards as mandy.com. They pay readers $ 10 per script read/evaluated."

Why would a qualified reviewer work for $10 bucks a script? Frankly, whether your script is praised or panned, the feedback is pretty much worthless.

I think Gordy's intentions are good, but he needs to get better readers. Obviously, he has to screen them better and pay them more -- that probably means raising entry fees.

I'm not crazy about any contest that extends their deadline.

Point taken, Jim. Good luck with your contest!

For $10 an hour, the only reasonably qualified people I can see doing this are film students. And they're probably doing it more as an exercise than a chance to make money.

This is probably why, once in a while, people do get good feedback. For every good review, though, I bet there are 10 that are just mailed in.

If you have connections, stay clear of Amazon Studios. If you don't, take a long, hard look at what they have to offer.

And ask yourself, is entering in and paying for the same contests year after year really the best way to go about things?

Script Savvy should either, 1. provide all outstanding feedback before proceeding with new contests, or 2. refund those who haven't received the feedback they paid for, and then proceed with new contests.

One or the other. That's it.

Frankly, most options aren't impressive at all. They are usually for production companies that have no major credits. I doubt the writer got paid anything substantial for the option.

I think InkTip's intentions are good, but they just don't have any juice.

Congratulations, TJ! That's awesome. Glad InkTip worked out for you.

I have mixed feelings about Scriptapalooza. The coverage is good, but over-priced. If they charged 1/2 as much, I'd confidently tell people to use them.

For my money, Scott the Reader's the best bargain. Google Alligators in a Helicopter.

I've pretty much used all the services, and the only ones I feel (relatively) confident you won't get ripped off are:

Scriptapalooza Scott the Reader Screenplay Mechanic

Don't want to say anyone deserves to get ripped off, but if anyone enters this contest from this point forward... they kinda do deserve to be parted from their money. All the red flags are here.

DO NOT ENTER THIS CONTEST!

Sorry about your experiences, but thanks for the heads up!

Downloads or reviews (legitimate or otherwise) have no affect on whether a project is promoted or not. The script Orange Curtain, which is now on the development list, got only 2 downloads during its 45 day evaluation period.

Also, really not sure what Amazon would gain from the kind of "scam" you laid out. I don't agree with all of their choices, but I have no doubt they are choosing what they believe are the most marketable projects.

Should add, it's weird about your download tally. Were the people downloading registered at Amazon Studios?

Not sure why that would matter.. but the only possible explanation I can come up with is you're not registered, a download doesn't count.

Lots of projects have fake reviews -- they're obvious to spot, The overwhelming majority of those projects don't benefit from the fake reviews. Why would an exception be made for Mansitters? Someone at Amazon must genuinely believe it's a notable project.

As far as projects being chosen from early May, who knows why? The sample size is too small to come up with any conclusions, though.

If you want to say Amazon has a pretty messed up selection process, I'm not going to argue with you, but I highly doubt there's a scam going on. What purpose would that serve? A multi-billion dollar company is going to risk their reputation by running a scam screenwriting studio?

Btw, as far as the downloads go, that's just a guess on my part. I really am not sure why your tally wasn't higher than two.

Lastly, this is just my two cents. You bring up some interesting points. Best to you.

Damn, sorry about your experience. Thanks for the heads up.

No offense, but, glancing at your posts (which are basically UNREADABLE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS), makes me wonder why anyone should take your views on writing seriously.

Wish your experience was better, Marjory, but thanks for sharing!