Message Board

How many writers out there are writing for contests and how many are writing for Hollywood?

If you're a new writer and writing "dramas" for Hollywood... you are going down the wrong path. I maybe wrong but, I haven't heard of a new writer(not yet sold or produced) that has broken into Hollywood with a drama. Dramas may get you placed in contests but they sure don't get you into Hollywood.

Todd,

I do agree with you. But,I would add...the beginning writer writes when he/she knows nothing about the craft. So they not only make mistake after mistake over and over again, but they don't take the time to learn, do the research, read scripts, etc. to get better. And that's if they even start at all.

Most think they can buy a software program that formats... and all of a sudden they call themselves a screenwriter. Then, they work on one script for years. Never getting it finished. So they can say they're in the middle of writing a script. I hear this time and time again. When in fact, they will never finish because they are too scared.

You are only a "screenwriter" when you actually sell or get produced. Otherwise, you're just another wannabe trying to write. Yet, they sure know how to criticize other people's work don't they? And they know all about the insides of Hollywood.

I'll give you seven books that will rock your world.

1. "Save The Cat" - Structure

2. "The Inside Story" - Theme

3. "The 1-3-5 Method" - Character arc

4. "The Hollywood Standard" - Format

5. "The Secrets of Action Screenwriting" - Need I say more?

6. "Writing Screenplays That Sell" - Great nuts and bolts of the craft. Written 30 years ago and it's still the best -- the story elements haven't changed.

7. "Teach Yourself Screenwritng" - Another great nuts and bolts of the craft. Easy to understand and breaks down an entire script from beginning to end.

Now, the hard part is getting all that information down to your fingertips and onto the page.

There is one more...

8. "Writing for Emotional Inpact - Scenes and Dialogue

I would agree. Blake Snyder's Beatsheet is the best and easiest to follow if you have read his first book.

If you want to see great examples from movies that already have been made, I would recommend his, "Save the Cat Goes to the Movies." He breaks down like 50 movies.

If you're a newbie you must know structure and the beat sheet is the best way to keep your story clear, precise and in line before you write it.

Janet is correct. Underscoring is the norm, but I have seen it in italics and upper case. Just don't do it in bold face and do it sparingly. In the end, the director and actor will decide. Remember, dialogue can change at the drop of the hat on the day of the shoot.

For all of you out there looking for script advice...

Script Consultants/Readers are like the latest, greatest health diets. There's a new one out every month. Nobody should pay more than $200 bucks tops for their services. I don't care what kind of resume they have. Because in the end, it is only their opinion. So, the more you invest in them, the more they have to like your writing... otherwise they lose a customer. Think about it.

If you're like most writers(which is poor)you need to spend your money wisely. There are good readers out there that charge under $100 bucks that will do you just fine. I would rather get two for the price of one any day of the week.

You want quantity. You want as many people as you can telling you the same thing. Then you'll know where your flaws are in the script, what direction to take with your characters, if the story works, if your act two is too long, not enough conflict, etc.

Spending money on one person is just not good enough. It's like entering contests, why do you get placed in one but not the other? That's why you need at least two or even three different readers to evaluate your work before you get a gauge on your writing style and your script. And... before you send it out to any producer or agent.

Nick, I would agree with most of what you are saying but, if you really believe in your last sentence, then you will surely have a hard time with your first script sale to Hollywood.

Aspiring writers need the knowledge/guidance from the working professionals. That is a fact. The challange is to find creditable ones that don't charge an arm and a leg for their services.

Most working writers have their own group of colleagues within Hollywood that they rely on to tell them if they are on the right track or not with their story. New writers do not have that luxury. That's why there are script consultants. You just need to do your research and find the ones that you're satisfied with as far as their background and you can learn from.

But to think that you know enough to do it all by yourself is simply foolish. Even the great painters of history had mentors.

Nick Buddy, You're missing my point. Writers have a tendency to be too close to their work. They need an outsider's point of view. Whether they pay for that point of view or not is up to the writer. But, they need a professional's point of view. Period.

I didn't say for every writer in history. I said that the great painters in history had mentors. Whether they paid for them or not, who cares? It's the end result that matters.

If you can get people in the business to take the time and go over your work, that's great. But most writers can't.

I don't know Dr.Eric. If you think he doesn't have the professionalism then don't use him. Simple as that. I believe that having a pro in the business take a look at your work is a must before you send it out. And if you can get more than one pro, that's even better. Paid for or not.

Nick and Dr. E,

It's time to end this discussion. Nick is right, if Dr.E doesn't have the resume then Nick has all the right to question it as does everyone else. There's a lot of script consultants out there who think they are "in the know." So writers need to be aware and do their homework before they shell out their hard earned cash.

To sum it up -- find a consultant/reader with a good reputation that gives objective feedback by being honestly brutal/blunt with his or her advice... and the more the merrier.

Remember: In Hollywood, it's not the writer's opinion that counts, it's theirs. The whole objective is for Hollywood to say, "YES" to your script.

AND, on the Internet... anyone can be anything.

I'm curious. Now that the contest season is in full swing...

1) What benefits besides the cash prize do you get out of entering a contest? 2) How many contests in a year do you enter?

3) Any expectations from the organization in return?

4) Do you think contests pick winners based on commercial or artistic value or both?

Bobbette, d. santiago is correct. 1-3 locations. Small group of characters. Little or no special effects. Minimal props. That's low budget. But that doesn't mean it's independent. Just means that it's low budget.

Every aspiring writer out there should be writing low budget stories. Check out BURIED, ARMORED, and many other spec scripts that turned into sales and movies. All were low budget.

That's how you get your foot in the door of Hollywood. High budget stories go to the A-list writers. So, if any of you have a high budget script, Scifi, Period, Musicals, Animation, etc. It's going to be slim to none getting it sold and made into a movie. And slim... left town.

ScriptDude

I have to ask this question again....

Why do you enter a contest?

Out of the hundreds that are out there. There's only about 10 that would be worth your time and money. Most of Hollywood thinks that contests are a big joke and a scam to make money off new writers.

The winners seldom go beyond the contest because the script is not commercial enough. Take look at all the winners from all the contests and tell me how many of those scripts actually get sold and made into films. Less than a handful at best.

Save your money and develop relationships with the people who have the power to do something with your script. Or if you must enter a contest, do your research and stick to the top ten.

Yes, I have heard of one writer. BUT, he wrote a low-budget character piece for the Nicholls. Made the quarter-finals. Got a manager because of his writing, then wrote a high budget spec that his manager sent around and it sold in a week.

Hasn't had it produced yet but... through that sale, he's gotten a number of meetings and I believe he has written a couple of tentpole movies that are in pre-production. This was a couple of years ago. So, it can happen. But you need a good manager and there again, he started with a low-budget character piece to kick start his career. You can always write high budget scripts as writing samples. But if that's all you have chances are slim that you're going to get work. Unless the writing is so fantastic that you are truly a diamond in the rough. But that is so rare.

What aspiring writers don't seem to understand is that they have absolutely NO CREDIBILITY. No company or producer is going to buy a high budget script from a first time writer. That just doesn't happen. Especially in this market. They will buy a high concept/low budget script. That's a slam dunk.

The problem is... that most aspiring writers don't take the time to learn about high concept ideas. They think that their idea, no matter what it is, is a movie and believe me, most are not.

Plus, most aspiring writers don't take the time to learn the craft of screenwriting. They really don't know what it takes to make a script commercial. They don't even know how to write a good logline or know what one is. And without a good logline the writer is S-O-L.

Happy day,

Don't waste your time. No matter what motivation you have there, it's not enough for a great screenplay or a movie that an audience would want to go see. Nor would they care about the subject matter. It's been done to death.

Here's my post for the Exposurama contest which is no different than the Scripted for Pro contest.

I have to ask this question again....

Why do you enter a contest?

Out of the hundreds that are out there. There's only about 10 that would be worth your time and money. Most of Hollywood thinks that contests are a big joke and a scam to make money off new writers.

The winners seldom go beyond the contest because the script is not commercial enough. Take look at all the winners from all the contests and tell me how many of those scripts actually get sold and made into films. Less than a handful at best.

Save your money and develop relationships with the people who have the power to do something with your script. Or if you must enter a contest, do your research and stick to the top ten.

I hate to comment on this but since I have time and in-between projects... I will.

Why do writers wait until the last minute to enter a contest? Most contests have early bird deadlines.

1. It's cheaper.

2. Your more likely to get a guaranteed read. And...

3. It's a lot less stress and you won't care if they extend the deadline or not.

From the organizers that I have heard about... they extend a contest deadline strictly for the bucks. Remember, there's a lot of money in them there contests.

So, if wait until the last day, which means you're in a hurry to enter without getting proper feedback from an outside source, then you're more likely to have typos, formatting problems, bad dialogue, and a host of other mistakes that will automatically kick you out of any contest anyway. So you just pissed away your higher priced entry fee.

Unless it's a monthly contest, I would never wait to the last minute on a regular deadline or go into the extended deadline and pay a higher entry fee.

But as P.T. Barnum once said.... there's a sucker born every minute.

Absolutely!

If they gave you a time frame and they are past that, then most definitely. Call or email them.

I've noticed on the "Winning Scripts" link that there are a number of scripts that have either placed or won a variety of contests.

Can anyone of the winners here tell me since the win or placement in a contest, has helped their career i.e. get an agent, manager, sold a script, or whatever, besides the cash prizes?

Or... if you just recently won a contest have you made some insider contacts that you think will help you start a career?

I would love to hear some success stories.

ScriptDude.

Irin, Sounds like the contests have done some good. Now that you have an agent, has he/she helped you with your other scripts? Such as feedback or getting them to the right people? Just curious.

Happy Day,

That's an odd question to ask. Who cares how many? Whether there's 10 or 10,000 entrants, contests are a crap shoot.

If you get a reader on a bad day, you're screwed. If he just split from his girlfriend and your script is about love, you're screwed. If it's about anything that a reader is dealing with and has a negative opinion on, you're screwed.

If he doesn't like your title, format, the characters names, you're screwed. There's a million more reasons. It has nothing to do with how many scripts that are entered in a contest. Or whether it's an up or down year.

I know of a writer who entered 3 contests. Didn't make the first round in 2 of them, but the third he won. That one just happened to be the Nicholl's which started his career. Since then every script that he has written has turned into a movie or close to it.

Like any business, it's a numbers game. You keep writing until one hits.

There you have it folks...

"but we really don't evaluate scripts based on box-office potential or marketablity."

That's the BIGGEST problem with contests. It gives a false sense of accomplishment. In Hollywood, that's the only way they judge a script, box-office potential or marketablity. If it's just about good writing, then no movie would ever get made in Hollywood.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Austin festival. It's a great event and supports all kinds of filmmakers and is very well organized. But it's a contest and not the reality of Hollywood.

Having a great concept is king. Without it, your just another contest winner.

I would love to see a contest "based only" on box-office potential or marketablity.

Mr. Smith,

I wish your statement was true... "they want to pick commercial winners because then more people will submit to the contest -- and voila, they make more money." But by the results, that's far from the truth.

I'm assuming and maybe I'm just plain wrong... that most aspiring screenwriters want to make a living from writing screenplays, having them bought and made into films. You work hard on a script that may take you six months to a year to write. So what? You write it for yourself and leave it a drawer?

No, you want to get it out there and see if you can sell it. Right? Otherwise, what's the point? Unless you write scripts for a hobby.

If the contests really picked "commercial winners" then they would have a far better track record of bought/produced screenplays. That's the fact.

I am not down on contests. They just don't give an accurate take on what Hollywood is really looking for in a script. And Hollywood is the biggest buyer of scripts.

Mr. Smith, if you write scripts as a hobby that's great. More power to you. But, I read a lot of posts here about writers wanting to get there script out there, doing query letters, getting agents, managers, etc. And contests are a very small part of doing that with a skewed view.

Like I said before, I would love to see a contest devoted to the most commercial, marketable, producable scripts. You would see a lot more new writers breaking into the business.

L.J.

Why don't you start your own writer's group? Advertise in Craig's List or your local newspaper and see if you can get 5 to 8 people interested. There's got to be fellow writers in Dallas. Meet once a week or twice a month. Just make sure they're at your level or above.

What I've noticed on this board is that most of the writers are like you or a few levels above. And they probably don't have the time because they're too busy writing and trying to kick start their own careers.

When I'm on a project all my energy and effort is focused on the page and I simply don't have the time to read scripts and make constructive comments even with my own fellow writing buds. But we all need outside feedback and family and friends just don't cut it. It took me years and many writing groups to find people that I can trust and that I know have the expertise.

Good luck.

PS. What I could do if you're interested, is take a look at your first 10 pages and give you my opinion.

This is what happens when you make the SAME EXACT movie again. Where's the surprise and conflict if the viewer already knows??

Too bad the filmmakers missed a terrific opportunity. But... I'm sure it will still make its money.

LJ, It use to depend on the genre. Comedies tend to be shorter than thrillers or dramas. In today's world, I've seen scripts that range from 78 pgs. (BURIED) to 139 pgs. (BRIDESMAIDS).

Generally speaking, as a newbie, 90 to 108 pages is ideal. If you have a unique voice and your story rocks... then page count is secondary.

If you're constantly coming up short then I would think that you're not outlining your story properly. Some of your plot points maybe missing and/or your scenes might be too short. Or... maybe you might be right on the money. I wouldn't worry about it unless you get feedback telling you that something is short.

FYI, for the script reader who has to read 20 scripts a weekend, what would you rather read - a script that is 127 pages or a script that is 105 pages? Believe me, it makes a big difference on what gets read first.

"I said at that time that I have never heard of any remake or sequeal being as good as the original. Duh! Because its already been done. If its been done, its been done. And MOST people dont want to see IT again."

WOW... Janet,

I guess you haven't been to the movies in quite awhile. Lord of the Rings, Aliens, Batman Begins, Godfather Part 2, Empire Strikes Back, Toy Story, just to name a few are all excellent sequels, and made a lot of money as they should.

There's nothing wrong with sequels (by the way, there's no a). It's just whether the filmmakers want to take the time and create a good solid, engaging story. Look at Toy Story 3 for example. One of the best films of 2010. It should have won an oscar.

I know it's just your opinion Janet but, your blanket statement about sequels is simply wrong.

And Dana... It's show BUSINESS not show ART. Of course they're in it to make money. They spend MILLIONS on one movie. Do you think they're doing it just for the art of it?

Janet, I miss quoted you? You've GOT TO BE KIDDING. I took it word for word from your last post. Now your back pedaling. Read your own post again, please. Are you from this planet?

Isn't it funny how many of you aspiring writers crap all over Hollywood yet... most of you would give your right arm to have sold, produced, and have A-list actors starring in your script. Hmmm.

Yes it's true, most sequels are crap. But, they will always be here, like it or not. As long as the filmmakers think they have a built-in audience and can make a buck. Same with the 3-D and the comic book craze. Believe it or not, that's a small percentage of overall movies in Hollywood.

What makes me laugh is that many of you "think" you are way above writing something like that. I guess it's cool to act cool and arty when you're outside of the system. But, by an ice cube chance in Hell that you actually have a chance to work within the system you're in for a big eye opener, folks.

Many top writers in Hollywood had to start out by writing what you call poop in order to put food on the table and have a career. It's called paying your dues, people. Something that most of you know nothing about.

So... go on and keep ripping Hollywood, keep acting cool, keep thinking you're above it all and we'll all see how far that gets you.

WOW...

What a wussy, Happy Day. You wouldn't make it through one day in Hollywood.

It isn't what you have, or who you are, or where you are, or what you are doing that makes you happy or unhappy. It is what you think about. ~Dale Carnegie~

We all have ability. The difference is how we use it. ~Stevie Wonder~

Filmmaking/Screenwriting isn't for the weak minded. The only ones that don't make it are the ones that quit. If you've been writing for as long as you say you have... then you haven't worked hard enough at your writing, making contacts, and selling yourself.

The people that you mention that you say, "the thrill is gone," they have already proven themselves.

You have not.

Mr. Raymond and Mr. Smith,

Thank you for making my point.

Don't expect to sell your script at a pitchfest. They're only good for creating relationships (maybe) and practicing your pitching. The Expo Pitchfest is very expense to do either.

The Great American Pitchfest is a better option to do both. It's two days. First day are classes on pitching and the second day is a full day of pitching. Which means you can pitch as many as you can in the 8 hour day. And it is one of the best organized pitchfests out there. It's a lot of fun too.

If you've never pitched then you'll blow at least 100 bucks just getting down your pitch with the folks that you pitch to at the Expo. It may cost you even more.

I haven't heard of anyone selling their script at a pitchfest. But I have heard of people making some good contacts for the future.

Good luck.

Go to this blog and you'll read more about Jack.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76376

Hope this helps.

Those who can't do, teach and those who can't teach, teach gym. ~Woody Allen



Readers for Screenplay Competitions are are no different. Save your money and spend it on a trip to L.A.

Another way... is to buy MovieMagic 6. Best screenwritng software out there. You can navigate so much faster around your script.

Trust me, I've bought and tried them all.

Go to: http://www.scriptfrenzy.org/node/2000004 The site will walk you through it.

Here's a couple of other places you can go:

http://www.movieoutline.com/articles/television-script-format.html

www.ehow.com/how_4504848_format-television-script.html

http://filmtvcareers.about.com/od/gettingthejob/a/HT_SpecScript.htm

Most bought screenwriting software has a TV format in place. So just use that if you have it. Although, if you can download existing shows, they will be good examples of what to do. Some TV shows format it differently than others.

Good luck.

You guys say, exposure. Exposure to whom??

Go to WinningScripts on this site. A lot of writers either won or placed in many, many contests. Look at the dates of their scripts. See if they've gotten managers or agents from their winnings. If they have, it's a very small percentage compared to the amount of money these writers invested into contests.

Or, better yet, see if any of their scripts have turned into movies or even had a sale, not an option but a true sale.

They could have taken that money and used it to take trips out to Hollywood or New York and would have gotten better results by making one on one relationships with producers, agents, managers who can actually help them in their writing careers.

Yes, you do hear of a tiny percentage of writers, I mean less than one percent of their scripts getting sold but that is so low that you can lay your script out on Hollywood Blvd and get the same or better results.

Most contests are black holes to throw money into. Why not invest into a road trip and really find out about exposure to the people that count.

Only if you want to SELL to Hollywood and have an actual career in wriitng...

1) Have 2 or 3 finished, polished scripts that are high concept.

2) If you don't live in LA then MOVE to LA. You MUST be here to take meetings, meet people, create relationships, etc. After you make it, then you can live anywhere you want.

3) Learn the art of pitching and being good in the room.

4) Go to Pitchfests, the EXPO, seminars, etc. not to sell but to meet people.

5) Make a list of Managers and Agents that will read unsolicited scripts. There are a number of them.

6) Make the rounds. Pound the pavement until you get a manager and/or agent. Why? Because you NEED them. 7) Be and stay persistant.

8) Don't give up.

9) If you enter contests, ONLY do the top 5. The rest are there to take your money and they give you a false sense of hope.

Most writers can't get past #1.

If you have never been, you should go to see for yourself. It's a great place to meet other writers. There are a handful of good classes (you need to do your homework) to attend depending on what you're interested in. And they do have some interesting guest speakers.

Last year was screwed because of union issues. So, many of the guest speakers didn't show up. In the past, it was a lot bigger and better but in the last few years due to the economy, it's gotten smaller.

For the price to get in, you'll get more out of it than you would spending money on a couple of contests that you don't win or place. Plus, it's good to get out of the room once in awhile and hear what others are doing.

Just remember, it's there to promote and sell.

Amir,

Welcome to the reality of contests. Like I've said so many times before...

1) They don't always read all the entries.

2) Many contests are in it for the bucks and just the bucks.

3) If their reader woke up on the wrong side of the bed, you're screwed. So, it has nothing to do with the quality of your writing and EVERYTHING to do with WHO reads your script.

4) They give a false sense of hope even if you do win. Just look at the winners of ALL the contests and tell me how many got sold, got an agent or manager or even got optioned in the last year or two. Less than 1 percent.

5) Except for the Nicholls, Hollywood could care less. And if you do when a contest it better be first place. Quarterfinals, Semifinals, doesn't mean much. Go back and read, "Pitchfest and Contests - an eye opener from an insider" on this site.

Laugh and scoff all you want folks but that's the reality of contests.

Move to LA if you are truly serious and pay your dues.

Hi Cat,

Thanks for the compliment. No, I'm not a lawyer. I'm a writer living and working in L.A.

One last thing about contests.... If you must enter, pick the ones that offer you feedback for a price. Most of the time, it's cheap and halfway decent notes that you can use.

Plus, it's a way of knowing that they've actually read your script. And pick contests that already have a good track record.

On a side note: Every year it gets harder and harder to sell a spec script. The market has changed dramatically over the past 10 years. It's not like it was. If you don't have a script with a extra strong hook, concept, characters and writing, you are S-O-L even for indies.

Writers that have been in the business a long time are having trouble getting their scripts read. It's a VERY TOUGH business these days. Make sure you keep a day job.

As far as ringers...

What difference does it make people? So what if a script was produced? Look at the movies out there right now. Do you think any of them would have won a contest?

Look at the BLACK LIST of each year, do you think they would have won a contest?

There's a BIG DIFFERENCE between a contest script and a Hollywood script. So... having ringers or not, means nothing. Especially, when many of the readers change from year to year with these contests. Like I've said so many times before...

90 percent of contests are a scam. They are in it just to make the bucks. Pick the top 5 or 10 and be done with it. Contests are just a small stepping stone at best.

Some of you writers have WAY TOO MUCH TIME on your hands.

Whoa...

Mr. Evans, either you are very naive and immature or you take yourself way too serious. Dude, lighten up and grow up. All of you have a CHOICE. You can either enter a contest or not.

The people that run contests can run it any way they choose to. It's up to them. Not you. And if you folks don't like it, don't pay to enter! Gee, what a concept! And in time, the bad ones will fall by the waste side.

It's no different than dealing with producers, agents or managers. There are good one and bad ones. And yes, you will probably get screwed. But, that's part of this business. Deal with it and move on. Geez... it's just a contest!

Who told you that life is fair?

You guys are going to have a rude awakening if you ever sell your script.

A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice. Bill Cosby

Dear Mr. Evans,

I don't want to get into a pissing match.... but, my "too cool attitude" is based on the reality of this business and these contests are a good slice of what you'll be running into. Your attitude is based on arrogance and ignorance.

And... as far as "my generation," you're clueless.

OH BOY! I feel the need to throw my 2 cents in on this one.

I am a working screenwriter living in L.A. I'm probably the only working writer on this board. Why? Beacuse 90 percent of the writers in L.A. don't even know this board exists. I only discovered this site because a friend of mine's nephew told me about it. That's why I don't post my real name.

As far as the life of a screenwriter... well, generally they have a writing career of about 3 to 8 years if they're lucky. Most screenwriters are out of work. Like 80 percent or more. Check the WGA if you don't believe me.

Those million dollar paydays for spec scripts are the thing of the past. Any writer making 1 to 3 million a script has a great track record of delivering the goods and a few hits on their resume. AND they have very tight relationships with top producers/directors, etc. AND they are FUN and EASY to work with. Trust me on that one.

Since the economy is in the toilet it's getting harder and harder for everyone to sell scripts or get writing assignments. Even getting their own scripts read is a pain and a struggle. It's not like it was back in the 80's and 90's when they would buy just about everything that was handed to them.

Nowadays, the script has to be ready to go without development, more than likely has money behind it, and a couple of top names who are totally vested in the project. So, if you don't have any of those, then you just might be out of luck. But, there's always a possibility. In the meantime, it's very, very rough out there. Winning contests means little to nothing in the real world. It's a minor stepping stone. But, like winning a couple of grand in the lotto, it doesn't hurt.

Here's the problem for the newbie... Like some post I read awhile back on this board, "Screenwriting is like American Idol. Every one thinks they have a voice and can sing. In screenwriting, everyone thinks they can write a movie."

In American Idol, hundreds of thousands try out. Yet they only pick 12 and out of 12 they pick 1 winner. Screenwriting is no different. Over 50,000 scripts get registered every year at the WGA. But only a handful will ever get sold or get made. Why? Because 99 percent of the scripts are crap. Just like American Idol.

Screenwriting is not like the Olympics. In the Olympics, you need the physical ability. I know I can't run or jump, but I think I can write. Why? Because good writing looks easy. So people think, yeah I can do that. Just like singing! I can pump out a screenplay or a novel no problem and make a million dollars!

The sad part is the the media promotes that pipe dream. UNTIL, the poor sap starts to get into writing and they discover just how hard it is. That's why they spend the rest of their life working on one frickin' script that they will never finish. But, they can sure call themselves a screenwriter now can't they? So... they slowly fade away. PLUS, everyone and their brother is a screenwriter out here. There are so many -- you're tripping over them and most of them are better than you. But, they still can't get work.

To make it in this business you need a few things - persistance, time, talent, a whole lot of luck and a likeable personality. And... if you know someone in the business that's a big plus. It's a crap shoot to say the least.

But, if you're in it long enough, sooner or later it will be your turn. So you better be ready. Have 2 or 3 polished, well-written, high concept scripts ready to go, 3 to 5 extra ideas, know how to be good in the room (pitching) and know how to market yourself. Because you'll be doing that everyday for the rest of your career. Whether you have an agent or a manager or even a big hit.

It's sad but our culture has changed over the past 20 years. Nowadays, people feel entitled to get what they want, when they want it, no matter if they worked hard for it or not. "Earning it" is no longer. If they don't get it then they become the victim.

But the reality is, you must do whatever you can to stay in the game until it's your turn if you want it bad enough. Keep your day job, stay a student of the craft, write everyday and learn to promote yourself by making the contacts/relationships. Because Hollywood is all about relationships.

And most importantly, hang out with people who have the same dream as you do. If your girlfriend, wife, husband, boyfriend, friends or family aren't supporting you... then you're screwed.

"If you are capable of making a living out of your talent and imagination, you are a privileged soul." - Walter Hill

Valerie,

There are a lot of factors why films get made. Here are just a few that I know of...

1) Hollywood needs to make money. Period. They want to do it with the least amount of risk. So they go for the built in audience... a novel, comic book, sequel, etc. Something that has a track record. The super heroes, toys, Disney attractions, and the best sellers are the ones that get the biggest budgets and make the most money.

2)There's a changing of the guard in Hollywood. A much younger crowd is taking over and the classic older crowd is dying off. Which means the quality and the taste of film is changing. Dramatic movies of 20 or 30 years ago would never be made now. At least that's what their research says. Plus, these young execs. don't want to lose their jobs. So playing safe with crap is much easier than taking a risk with quality.

3)The marketing of movies has changed drastically. Everything is tied into products and their sponsors, Coke, Macs, BurgerKing, Nike, the Internet, you name it. They are all in the game of film making. And they all want and have a say in the final product and want a piece of the pie.

4)Large audience appeal. Can the concept go world wide? Will Germany and Japan love it? Or Brazil? There's a hell of alot of money in foreign distribution. Hollywood is the world's magnet.

5) Studio movies are EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE to make. They would rather make one movie and spend 100 to 200 million than make 10 movies for 20 million each. Don't ask me why. But, the above the line (producers,directors,actors,and marketing) costs are 10 times higher than the below the line (the production).

6) Actor's schedules and favors. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. I have 4 weeks that I can fit into if you do me a favor. This how many movies get made.

7) Many movies are made for the tax write-offs, benefits, rebates, etc. It doesn't matter if it makes money or not. OR if it's good or not. But, what looks good on paper.

8) Some scripts start out great but end up shitty. Because filmmaking is a group effort. Everyone wants to have input good or bad. If the director wants a scene this way, a producer wants a scene that way, and an actor wants it their way well... guess what? Now you have a new script and story.

9) No one in Hollywood really knows what's going to be hot. Most blockbusters are freaks of nature. The filmmakers of The Hangover had no idea that it would make as much as it did. Nor did the makers of the King's Speech have a clue that it would even be up for an Oscar.

10) It's all a big crap shoot. The stakes are high and the loses can be down right scary. Execs can lose their jobs because they greenlit a movie or two that failed at the box office.

What all this means to the aspiring screenwriter... you MUST learn to play the game. Don't write small movies for small auidences. Even if you have an indy producer interested. He/she will want it to have a unique hook or voice that they can market. They want their movies to have a large auidence.

I know many filmmakers who have their indy movies in their closets because they can't get distrubution because the auidence isn't big enough, because the hook isn't big enough. So hundreds of thousands of dollars sit on a shelf in their closet. Art can only take you so far. Even the struggling Michael Moore is now laughing all the way to the bank.

Stick to the top genres... action, thrillers, comedies, and horror. Find a way to make the concept unique that brings out your voice as a writer and as a creative person. They're always looking for a unique voice that stands out in the crowd of wannbees and a unique twist on a warn out subject. That's key.

Having a good solid high concept is EVERYTHING. Especially for new writers. That will get you noticed faster than anything else you can do. Also, have it character driven. They love unique characters that they haven't seen before. Plus, actors love to play them. And if you get a top actor on your side... you're golden.

And as far as walking out of movies... It's all a matter of taste. Movies that the critics thought were crap years ago are now classics. Only time will tell the life of a film.

Jeff,

You are absolutely right. If you love to write. If that's truly your passion then the more arenas that you can write in the better. And you'll have a much longer writing career. Being flexible with your writing is the name of the game.

Geez, just finished going through a lot of your recent posts about readers and contests. How depressing. Well... you can't say I didn't warn you.

Here's my last little advice on contests...

1)Pick the top ten that have a good track record. Period.

2)Pick the contests that seperate the genres, so you compete fairly. Meaning horror competes with horror, action competes with action, etc. Otherwise, contests mostly pick dramas. And dramas don't sell in Hollywood. NOT by new writers anyway.

3)Pick contests that have CASH PRIZES. Why? Because they have to deliver. Or, they get a bad reputation. I see a trend where many contests are now offering: sending the winning script to prods. companies, agents, and managers. How can you verify this? You can't, unless they actually send you the list of people that they sent the script to. Even then, they could have made up the list. It's better to get the CASH! Besides, it's not that hard to send your script to Hollywood folks.

Okay. I'm done with the contests.

So.... what makes a good script? What elements are in every good script? I was at a writer's workshop last year and was shocked by how many writers didn't know this simple question.

Many of you on this board have placed or won contests. Tell me... what makes a good script? A good read? A good story? Plus, if you like, share some of your favorite scripts. I would love to know. Not movies. Scripts. There is a difference.

Guys... I know it all sounds pretty bad out there but, Hollywood will never stop looking for the next great script.

Yes, times are a changin.' The media world is changing. Writers need to diversify, true, but there will always be a need for stories for the big and small screens (including ipods, ipads, etc.)

It's just that the pipeline is getting smaller because of the economy. But the need is still there. Cable, TV, Film is wide open. New writers are breaking in all the time. Young and old. That's one thing that will never change.

The biggest thing that new writers lack is patience. Why do you think that there is such a turnover? I know many people who are no longer writing because they simply ran out of patience. And they were good writers too.

I know this sounds corny but if you have the three P's... passion, persistence, and patience you will succeed.

It's called, "paying your dues."

A very wealthy producer once told me the secret of success... two words, FOLLOW THROUGH.

Just keep writing. You'll see.

As far as Creative Screenwriting, it will morph into something bigger and better.

The ScriptSage, I mean the ScriptDude.

You ruined it only in your mind. Now, you must write it. Never ever tell anyone what you're working on until it's finished.

Yep. Our mind plays tricks on us when we think about it or talk about it too much. There's a certain mysterious energy when we form a new idea/story in our minds. It's that energy that gets us excited and takes us to the end. So, we want to keep it safe and fresh. That's why we don't let it out until it's ready.

It's like an artist that hides away from everyone and creates, then when he feels like he's done... then and only then he shows everyone.

Writing is no different. Talk about it too much, get too many opinions and you will never start or finish. And it won't have that energy or fresh feeling anymore.

I only get feedback when I have it all out on the page. In the writer's group that I'm in, I finish a script first then I break it apart and show the first 10 pages, or the first act, or second, or the entire script.

This way I'm no longer searching for my voice, vision or the energy. It's already there. At that point, I'm just tweaking to make it better.

So... stop talking and start writing.

There's a difference between sharing your story and sharing a logline. Before I write, I create a solid logline. That one or two sentence concept that tells my story in a nutshell. Then I go to at least 7 to 9 people and get their hit. If the majority say, "Yeah, I would go see that movie," then I write it no matter what. And when it's done, then I show it.

If not, I dump it and move on. I write for the masses that's what I get paid to do. As far as deadlines, contracts, etc... THAT'S ALL IN YOUR HEAD. You create what you think and every moment is a choice.

Life is too short to find excuses. If you lost your mojo on one idea, think of another and move on. That's what writers do. If you want to be a professional then act like one.

Here's a question for all of you who post on this board... Why don't you share writing tips? Many of you post alot and have strong opinions. I've seen some posts on formatting, but you can get that info out of any screenwriting book.

I'm talking about actual writing tips about character, scene, plot development, etc. Or share logline feedback? Every writer needs help no matter what level they're at.

Is everyone afraid of giving up their secrets? Or maybe, nobody has any to give up? Just curious.

Okay, I'll do a little sharing. Here's a writing tip on loglines that might be helpful...

These are two templates that seem to work well for me. If you are able to fill out, will have a solid sentence that will describe the crux of your story.

1) (Title) is a (genre) about (protagonist) who must (objective) or else (dire thing that will happen if the protagonist fails).

OR.....

2) When (inciting incident), (hero) struggles against (antagonistic force) in order to (goal) before (stakes are lost).

It's so important to know how to write a good logline for your script. Most producers, agents, managers, ask for a logline before they read a script.

Okay, I'll do a little sharing. Here's a writing tip on loglines that might be helpful...

These are two templates that seem to work well for me. If you are able to fill out, will have a solid sentence that will describe the crux of your story.

1) (Title) is a (genre) about (protagonist) who must (objective) or else (dire thing that will happen if the protagonist fails).

OR.....

2) When (inciting incident), (hero) struggles against (antagonistic force) in order to (goal) before (stakes are lost).

It's so important to know how to write a good logline for your script. Most producers, agents, managers, ask for a logline before they read a script.

Athena --

You're absolutely right and here's the problem...

As writers you have NO CONTROL once your script is sold. I just went to the LA SCREAMFEST and watched a movie that a friend of mine wrote. He had a great concept and script, that's why they bought and made it.

BUT, the director wanted re-writes and lots of them. So... the director changed a great ending to something that was so over the top and out of character that now the movie leaves a bad taste and can't get a distributor. All because the director thought his ending was better. It was his ego that ruin what could have been a solid horror/thriller that could have made money for everyone.

Film making is a group effort and if part of the group has all the power then the writer is S-O-L. That's why there are so many crappy movies out. The writer is on the bottom of the food chain.

Many, many movies start out with a great script but they die on the vine by bad film makers who think they know what the audience wants. But all they're doing is stroking their frickin' ego.

Don't worry about the small stuff. Concentrate on writing a good emotional story. I've never heard of a script not selling because of format problems.

Contests are their on creature. But they're not Hollywood. If they ding you on format, then they're not interested in discovering the best stories.

Valerie --

Bad scripts don't start out as bad scripts and then get bought and made. You must write the very best story possible and if you do get lucky and sell it... then and only then will it turn into a bad script by someone else.

Why? Because everyone in Hollywood thinks they're a great or better story teller than the original screenwriter. There's only a handful of filmmakers that believe in the "screenwriter." Clint Eastwood is one of them.

Val--

You're right. Times are a changin' that's life. Yes, there's alot of crap out there. Some fall through the cracks. But, not every script is that way. And so what? Are you going to stop writing? Or start writing bad scripts? It all centers around making money. No one sets out to make a crappy film. At least, I don't know of any filmmakers doing that. Making movies are damn expensive and take a hell of a lot of time.

If a movie turns out to be crap, then usually an ego is to blame or they lost sight of what they were trying to do in the first place and lost control. Or more importantly, they didn't have the elements that make a top-grossing film. believe it or not, the most popular movies have a number of things in common. Many filmmakers simply don't take the time to find out what makes a good story that appeals to human nature.

If a script turns out to be crap, then that's just bad storytelling and a lack of craft. Even if its sold and gets made, it won't make the return nor have an audience. And as you can see over the years...there's a lot of those types of films around.

Val --

James is correct but with a big BUT, nowadays most producers/studios/CE's want shorter scripts. Between 90 to 110 pages depending on the genre. Closer to 100-105 for specs. A new writer with a 135 page spec script tells them that his story is over written. Even with great dialogue, I guarantee you, it will be cut down if it ever got sold. Which I doubt.

Plus, no agent or manager wants to read a 135 page script from a newbie. They barely read the scripts now.

Also, they want shorter scripts/movies to get more showings per day in the theater. Remember, it's all about money.

If Mr. Spielberg didn't have a problem with it, then why didn't he buy it?

The fact is... it's all about getting your first sale. Why make it harder than it already is?

The A-list writers can get away with longer scripts because of who they are and their track records. But YOU as a newbie can't or shouldn't.

Besides, the guy with 135 page script is one less writer you have to worry about.

Hey Guys,

What do you expect for free?? Anytime you go on a site that you're describing.... you're gonna get potluck. Those sites do more harm on your psyche than giving you good constructive feedback.

Find script readers that are experienced and have a quality history. Otherwise, you're just playing a mind game with marginal people.

I agree with Irin. There are some good ones who truly know what storytelling/scriptwriting is all about. But, please... don't spend more that $100 to $200 tops for someone to read your script. You can keep it under $100 and do just fine.

See, the more you pay, the more they like your script. Do you think studios/producers pay anywhere near that to see if a script is good? Not a chance.

For a total of 200 bucks you can easily get 3 to 4 readers who'll give you great notes to work from. Any person who charges more than $200 per script, is just ripping you off no matter who they are.

Good readers can go through a script very quickly and find the flaws.

I have to laugh at all of these comments....

How can they get away with it???

1) It's the Internet.

2) It's America. You can get away with anything and everything.

3) Lack of ethics, honesty, and integrity.

And unless you folks act as a group and file a complaint, it will continue...

Jeremy --

The standard script is 120 pages. More recently it's shorter 90 to 110. Idealy, 105-108. When your script is longer than 120, it means that it's over written. Period. And I guarantee, it can be cut down without losing the impact of the story. It's called editing and not being in love with your own words/writing.

A-list writers can get away with longer scripts because of who they are and their track record. You as a newbie can't.

In contests as well as Hollywood, NOBODY wants to read a longer script! NOBODY. Because they all know it can be edited down. That's your job as a writer. Make it as tight as possible.

Every description, dialogue, scene, character, prop, MUST be there for a reason. Or delete it. If you can't, then go into novel writing.

Screenwriting is hard and confining. It takes a true committment to master the craft and make it look easy.

Don't cut yourself off at the knees just because you think your script is great at a longer length.

I've posted this before on another thread.

I find it interesting that the people critizing script readers for having bias opinions for not finishing a script, are now the same ones that are critizing the writing and the movie that they haven't seen. Nice.

...And people wonder why the world is the way it is. I hope all of you will have a chance to see your script turn into a movie. Because then and only then will you have an experienced opinion. And hopefully, a more open outlook.

I second that Michael, and I also agree that I don't see every movie for the simple fact... that I'm not interested in the subject matter.

But, I would never rip into a movie that I haven't seen just because of my personal bias. There's a lot of music out there that I don't like either but I'm not going to tell you that it's crap. That's something that the individual needs to decide.

Making a movie is extremely hard. To get A-list actors and a director and the money behind it, is a major feat in itself. Trust me, you have to please a lot of people along the way to get a movie made. So far, what most of you have done with your writing is please yourself.

Wait until you hit the real world. You'll have a brand new respect for the people who get their movies made no matter what the subject matter is and you won't be so quick to criticize.

The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion. ~Arnold H. Glasgow

So, what all of this boils down to...

You MUST know your audience. If you're going to spend 6 months, 1 yr. or more on your script, you better know who is going to pay money to see it and how it's going to be marketed.

That's the first thing a producer wants to know. How to market it and who is going to see it. If you don't know or don't care, then you might as well throw your script in the trash. Because nobody's going to care either.

I can tell you from experience, there's are a ton of brilliantly written scripts out there with great, fantastic stories that will never get made. Simply... because they don't know how to market them. Will teens under 17 or over 17 go see? How about parents with no kids? Young children and parents? Adults over 40? These are questions that all of you need to ask yourselves when picking out your subject matter.

That's why dramas win the majority of contests. Great for contests but lousy for Hollywood. Nowadays, the audience just isn't there to make back the money that was spent on the film.

J. Edgar might be in that catagory. We'll know after this weekend if it has legs.

As I said so many times before... it's all about the money.

Yeah... save your money and stick with the top five competitions.

Rememeber, contests don't mean a thing if you are a finalist or top whaterever percent they say you are. Means absouletly nothing. Nobody important cares.

You MUST WIN a competition in order for it to count. That's why... save your bucks and enter the top five. The rest are in it for the money.

Irin is right. Find out for sure that the writers or writer got the rep through the contest. Otherwise, stick to the ones that have a good track record.

Most Hollywood folks have never heard of any of the contests that are posted on this site. So, even if you win top prize it may or may not help you further your career.

Irin is a good source. Look at all the contests he's entered over the years. Irin has the contests helped that much??

Mick,

Maybe I am wrong. Besides The Nicholls, please list the "placers" that have gone on to sell, get representation, or have their careers started. I'm sure there is less than a handful at best. But, like I said, I maybe wrong.

Bruce,

Instead of "gauging your writing" by entering a contest, why not spend the 45 to 75 bucks on a script reader? At least you'll get the notes that will tell you what you really need to know and hear.

First off--

Bruce, you don't have to spend 200-300 bucks for a good script reader. Look on the internet there's a number of good readers for under $100.

Val, I know a writer who placed, became a finalist and even won contests with a family type of thriller. He still has no agent/manager and can't sell the script. Why? Like I posted on the other board, you MUST know your audience. The writer's script is inbetween audiences and genres, meaning it's not a family script and it's not a thriller script. Producers have told them...they can't find a market for it.

So.. back to the drawing board he goes.

Now, can a contest tell you that? NOPE! Like I've said before, there are thousands of brilliantly written scripts out there that will never get made. Why? Because there's no audience that will go see them. Can a contest tell you that? NOPE! For all I know, the scripts may have won a bunch of contests. But so what? There they sit in someone's closet.

Most of the contests gives the writer an ego boost and a false sense of accomplishment if he/she places or even wins. But there's no guarantee. That's the reality. That's why you wait for the big ones to come around so at least you're going for the brass ring.

Google the Black List in the past three years and tell me how many of those scripts won contests. Less than one percent. If that.

If you truly want to know where you stand as a writer and if you have a marketable script, give it to someone in the business who reads for a producer.

Val, as far as tracking a script, yes the studios have their own internal system. So, don't ever send out your script until it's the best that it can be, even to an agent or manager.

Remember folks, there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of scripts out there. Just because you placed in a contest doesn't mean your script is worthy of being turned into a movie. Most contest winners are quirky dramas, bio pics, war dramas, etc. Scripts that won't make a dime at the box office.

My advice... keep studying the craft and know your market.

Val --

Why don't you ask how much good ol' Timmy Jay charges since he's a script analyst. I'm sure he'll give you a good deal.

Here ya go:

This is a collection that my writer friends have used. So, I would think they're worth the money. All of them are under 100 bucks!

What I would recommend is to use at least 3 or more of them at the same time. Wait until you get all the feedback, then and only then start the re-writes.

This way you'll see if there is a trend on what needs to be fixed. If two out of the three say the same thing then you know you may have a problem. So for $150 or more you get three different people reading your script instead of paying one person that amount.

Hollywood doesn't pay much more than $50-$70 per script for a reader. Why should you?

Valerie and anyone else: I would love to hear your feedback on these folks.

http://www.alligatorsinahelicopter.blogspot.com/

http://www.afilmwriter.com/

http://screenplayreaders.com/services/

http://www.scriptrefinery.com/The_Script_Refinery/Price_Order_Form.html

http://www.screenplaycoverage.com/prices.html

http://www.awardwinningscreenwriters.com/id4.html

http://xtremescreenwriting.com/

Wow Bruce, you are a newbie. Where are you getting your facts?? You're assuming a heck of lot here. You need to do your research.

The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion. ~Arnold H. Glasgow

Just keepin' some of you guys honest. It's amazing how people make up sh*t without really knowing what's going on... believe what you want to believe, say what you want to say just because that's how you feel about it. Without any knowledge or experience attached.

Wow.

Mick and Bruce --

I agree with you both. Contests are just one way of breaking in and getting noticed. But, for the tons of contests out there, most have empty promises and are just making money off the newbie writers and promoting the pipe dream. That money could be spent on constructive feedback that would help the writer go further than any contest entry.

Bruce, the movies you mentioned: Arlington Road, Finding Forester, and Akeelah and the Bee are all from ONE contest, the NICHOLLS, and those writers won over 10 years ago. Shrapnel won Script Pipeline in 2008, not Snow White. As far as I know, Snow White sold after Shrapnel and was never in a contest. Both written by the same writer.

I realize that a lot of the writers on this board are out of state and contests maybe the only way "in" for them. That's fine. But choose wisely before you blindly send your money in. Pick the contests that have a real track record of writers breaking in or BIG MONEY prizes.

The majority of contests have no track record and are in it to promote the pipe dream and prey off the newbies.

Twenty years ago there was only one contest: The Nicholls. Maybe Disney. Same with the screenwriting books and consultants. A very small handful if that. Now... there are hundreds.

Mick, I don't do "sweeping generalities." Do your research and tell me if I'm wrong about the 1 percent. Most or the majority writers in Hollywood break in because of relationships/connections/and damn good writing, not by contests.

If you are serious about your writing you need to make the move to Hollywood and create your career. Ask any person working in the business. Sooner or later you will need to be here.

The biggest issue is that once you get here, the reality sets in and it's a whole different ballgame. Hollywood is a big social trash compactor that never stops... it will eat you up and spit you out... always making room for the next load of wannabees.

I'm a big fan of The Three Stooges and I normally don't comment on movies because I know how hard it is to get one off the ground but if the trailer is any indication of the movie (which I know it is) then... this is really, really sad.

Jeremy -- if you think that was a funny trailer then "Howard the Duck" is right up your alley.

http://gointothestory.blcklst.com/2011/12/thr-writers-roundtable-1-hour-video.html

Happy Holidays.

Don,

When it comes to Hollywood, no one cares if you had a recommend from a contest reader and did not win. You must win a contest to have any meaning come out of it or at least placed high in very well known contests to get any kind of credibility or traction. And even then, it's pretty slim because most contests are based on a curve and on top of that, aren't even on the Hollywood radar. That's why there's only a handful of contests that the insiders care or know about. The rest are in it for the money.

Plus, if the contest is new or fairly unknown to whomever you're making a query to, then it absolutely means nothing to them. You would do much better if you had an insider recommend your scipt to another insider. Because it's all about relationships and reputations. The majority of contests mean nothing when it comes to breaking in and selling your screenplay. (The majority.)

Most producers ask, if the writer has won or placed in all of these contests then why haven't they sold their script yet? Good scripts rise to the top whether they win a contest or not.

Film school is great if you can afford it. USC has the best connections to Hollywood by far. Otherwise, save your money and invest in something that has a safe return. You'll need it later when you come out to LA.

In the meantime, buy the top 5 to 10 screenwriting books, go to the workshops and seminars, read the best scripts not the shitty ones, watch a lot of movies and write, write, write. And if you have any talent... you'll do just fine.

The business doesn't care where you come from or what education you've received.

I have to comment on the many postings about all the troubles writers are having with contests and with the quote "Winning Scripts" that are listed.

PLEASE STOP WASTING YOUR MONEY on small, fly-by-night contests that mean nothing to furthering your career. Pick the top 5 or 10 contests, do your research by making sure they have a solid track record, meaning they consistantly deliver on what they promise and they have a good reputation in Hollywood. Meaning, the important people have actually heard of the contest. Producers, Agents, Managers, etc.

Who cares about a contest in Butt Drip, Idaho? Who cares about the 30 contests that you've entered and placed as a finalist, semi-finalist, or quarter-finalist? YOU DIDN"T WIN. No one wants to see a list of your failings.

I would rather see a writer win first place in one well-known contest and brag about it, than the 30 "finalist" placings in small, unknown, who gives a crap contests. That just makes the writer look "desperate" and Hollywood doesn't like desperate. On any level. Especially if you're trying to break in.

Second, third, fourth places, or top 10 finalists means shit. Because they will always think... how come your script didn't place first? Don't ever give them that thought or doubt.

You see, it's like the Olympics. Once you win gold that's it. Everyone wants to get to know you. You place second, nobody cares. People want to work with winners, champions, people that stand above the crowd.

So please stop wasting your money on crap contests and focus on the ones that MEAN SOMETHING if you're going to go that route. And don't brag about a contest unless you have a first place win in your pocket. Otherwise, it's nothing but a set of steak knives.

Paul,

You are absolutely right. A TOP CONTEST. Read my post again. I said pick the top 5 or 10 contests. But, placing as a finalist in an unknown contest may mean a lot to you and help your ego, but I guarantee, it means nothing to a person in Hollywood. So.. why waste the money? Unless you just desperately need the boost.

Well... if you must know.

In no particular order and the ones that I hear most often from agents and managers;

Nicholl - Austin - TrackingB - Scriptapalooza - PAGE - and probably Script Pipeline because of the 2008 winner.

All of these are well organized, well respected, and have a solid track record. And most importantly, Hollywood knows about them.

Again, this is my opinion based on what I have heard around town.

Ken,

There was a post/thread on this board about script readers a while ago (if you can find it) that had suggestions from myself and other writers. Try to find it.

If you can't, here's a partial list and some advice that may help you:

First, don't spend more that $200 on any reader. Hollywood doesn't, why should you?

Second, the list of readers below are all under $100, usually $50 - $70. So, for under $200 you'll get at least 3 solid reads that you can use.

Now this is important -- send your script out to at least 3 of them at the same time. Wait patiently until you receive all their feedback, then go over their notes and see if there is a pattern. If all 3 say that they got hung up on a character, motivation, pacing, the story itself, or whatever, then you know you have a problem or problems that need fixing because all 3 of them are telling you the same thing.

But, don't fix anything until you receive ALL OF THE FEEDBACK. Otherwise, you'll be wasting a lot of re-writing time.

Then and only then, if you belong to a writer's group, give it to them to read, preferably out loud. Most writers groups can do more harm than good, unless the writers are equal or better than you. Too many wannabees think they know the craft of screenwriting. Trust me, they don't.

As far as script consultants... that's a whole new ball of wax.

The readers below seem to have a good, consistent reputation.

Good luck.

http://www.alligatorsinahelicopter.blogspot.com/

http://www.afilmwriter.com/

http://screenplayreaders.com/services/

http://www.scriptrefinery.com/The_Script_Refinery/Price_Order_Form.html

http://www.screenplaycoverage.com/prices.html

http://www.awardwinningscreenwriters.com/id4.html

http://xtremescreenwriting.com/

One other thing,

I have yet to hear of a "script consultant" help kick start a new writer's career. If any of you have... please, I would love to hear your stories and how they got you "in."

To anyone who is interested,

If you would like my input/notes/feedback on your scripts, I would be happy to give it to you. I won't create a logline or synopsis for you because as writers you need to do that on your own. But, I will give you an honest, no BS opinion on your story from a Hollywood perspective. The good, the bad and the ugly. As well as any suggestions. It could be one page it could be five pages.

Right now, the fee is $50 (better than entering an unknown contest). Turnaround time will be a week or so, depending on my work load. Send me an email with a PDF of your script. Include a logline if you want. I'll send you an invoice through PayPal and as soon as I get confirmation of payment, I'll start reading your script. Make sure you do register it at WGA and/or copyright. Just so you feel better.

I do have two conditions: 1) I will only give feedback on these genres: Action, Adventure, Thriller, Comedy or Crime. These are the genres that are selling for first time writers.

Musicals, Westerns, Dramas, Period and beleive it or not, Horror are for more established writers. They maybe good for contests and/or samples, but the chances are slim for first time sales.

And 2) I will not pass your script on to producers, agents or managers. You need to make your own contacts. So please don't ask.

Now, if you Google, "ScriptDude" you will see some bald, fat guy on YouTube as well as a guy who is into poker. Could be the same guy, I don't know. But, neither of them are me. Who knew that there would be more than one ScriptDude. I don't have a Website, a blog or make dumb videos on YouTube.

But, to separate me from the others, I am now LAScriptDude.

Here is my email: LAScriptDude@live.com

I agree with Irin and Ken.

Why be a lab rat with a new contest? People, don't be so desperate about entering contests. Enter the ones that have a good track record. Irin has probably entered more contests than anyone here. Tell me Irin... have all those contests been worth the time and money you spent? Wouldn't you like to have some of those bucks back?

I was quite surprised with the response from the writers who took me up on my offer to read their scripts and give my opinion.

So, here’s what I’ve discovered in all of your scripts… A few of you have marketable concepts, most of you don’t. But, sadly the execution of the ones that did have a marketable concept was weak because of missing story elements. Now, I don’t know where these writers learned screenwriting whether it’s from books, workshops, writing classes or whomever. But they are missing the basics of screenwriting 101.

All scripts MUST HAVE these 5 basic elements otherwise you don’t have a screenplay or a movie: 1) A sympathetic hero. 2) A hero‘s character’s arc. 3) A villain, the nastier the better. 4) A romance for the hero. 5) And most importantly, a life or death situation (mentally or physically) that has a clear-cut visual goal where the hero must make a final decision in act 3.

These are the most basic elements that a screenplay must have. Don’t believe me? Check out the best movies in Hollywood. It doesn’t matter what genre they are. All the movies have them. Hollywood demands it and so does the audience.

So, you can stop sending me emails of the list of contests and placements that you’ve won. It doesn’t mean a thing if one of those 5 elements are missing from your script. It just means that out of the 1000 or 2000 entries entered in a contest, 999 sucked and yours was mediocre. So you placed.

Like I have said in the past, contests give you a false sense of hope. They have no criteria for submitting. Oh wait, they have to be 90 to 120 pages and be formatted correctly. BFD. They all grade on a curve. They have to pick someone to win or it will seem like a fraud. But it doesn’t mean your script is ready to go out to a producer, agent or manager or that it’s even a solid writing piece. Look at all the contests and first place winners every year. How many of them actually sell their script?

You can’t get around it, you need to take the time and learn the craft of screenplay writing. Learn those 5 basic elements and see how all the working writers execute them in their screenplays. You must read a ton of good, solid well written scripts because it’s all there in front of you.

Like I say in my review to a writer, what all new writers don’t seem to understand or consider, YOU have to compete with the already established pros. Your script must look and feel like the Hollywood standard. That is who you’re up against every single day if you want to sell a script. All the elements of screenplay writing; concept, structure, formatting, characters, sub-plots, motivation, pacing, everything must read and look like the writer’s already in the business. Otherwise, why hire you when they can hire a real pro?

What makes YOU different is your unique voice and how you communicate that voice on the page and your twist on a concept.

And if you think by writing a quirky, clever phrase of description that no one will get on the first reading pass is creative writing you’re wrong. Dead wrong. Every word, scene, character, description, prop, location, motivation, subtext, etc. must FIT that particular story otherwise a reader will trip over it.

I’m telling you, I’ve tripped over so many in the past three weeks my knees are killing me. If you think I’m full of shit, please prove me wrong. Show me an example that slaps me in my face and says Dude, you're wrong. I would love it if you do.

lascriptdude@live.com

Since Mr. Undari has some kind of bone to pick, I’m ready to pick. I LOVE THIS! First off, I’m a working writer living in LA. I found this site through my nephew. I would have never known that this site existed if it wasn’t for him. I have stated this in a past post if you would like to look it up. I post only to give advice of what to do and what not to do based on my own experience as a writer in Hollywood. You can take it or leave it. I’m not here to cheer and encourage you. That’s for all the rest of you to do. I don’t need to prove to anyone my successes or failures. To post a script just to satisfy Paul’s ego… well, who’s the arrogant one now? For safety sake, I wouldn’t recommend any writer posting their work on the internet. You have no idea who’s downloading it and what they’re going to be doing with it. Oh, I use a pseudonym because I can, I think it’s fun and why not? So, for those of you who don’t like it… ts.

Here’s a question. Who else on this site gives advice on screenwriting? Paul? Peter? I haven’t heard any advice from either of you that other writers can use. Except your complaints about podunk contests. You see, I don’t have anything to gain or lose. There are so many people out there writing bad scripts that if one of you can gain just a tidbit of info that you can use to make your script better than I feel like I’ve given back. Sounds kinda corny doesn’t it?

From Paul’s posts -- “Not everyone presumed to have a Hollywood script.” “Not everyone wants to be a professional screenwriter.” Oh really? There’s only two reasons to write in screenplay format … 1) to sell the script and 2) to get it produced. If that is not your goal, then why would anybody write in screenplay format? Write your story as a novel or short story. It sure is a hell of a lot easier. Makes absolutely no sense unless you’re just feeding your ego so you can call yourself, “a screenwriter.”

“Not all movies have a sympathetic hero.” You’re right. There’s a lot of shitty movies out there. But even the movie, Monster with Charlize Theron as the main lead, was sympathetic.

Let’s talk about villains. I said, the nastier the better. Okay, substitute nastier to meanest, scariest, or just the king of bad ass. Whatever word you use, your villain needs to be “that person.” Hans Gruber was a bad ass. With one memorable scene (the cold killing of the CEO of the company) made him one bad ass, mean, nasty, dude. One memorable scene. Remember that the next time you’re writing your antagonist.

“New writers” are writers that haven’t sold a spec and are still trying to break in. I don’t care if you’ve been writing for 20 years or 20 minutes. If you haven’t sold a spec to Hollywood, you’re a new writer.

Paul, you mentioned that I was spot on in my review of your script. If you end up using any of my suggestions, please mention me when you accept your oscar.

The movie “Drive” was written by an established writer not an amateur. Once you’re an established writer (have a credible track record) you could write your screenplay on toilet paper and get away with it. Nobody cares about the faults and imperfections. They care about the writer delivering a marketable story that can be produced. The writer of Drive has proven that he can deliver. New writers have no credibility and haven’t proven anything until they sell a spec and worked within the system.

Oops, that sounds pretty bitter and arrogant. Sorry Paul and Peter, I forgot to put on my kid gloves.

James -- I would love to read your psychological thrillers. Thrillers are an easy sell. But, your war musical or your Faustian western, I suggest bring those babies out after you make your first sale. That's when people would be much more eager to read them.

One last thing about Paul’s posts -- I still don't understand your whole rant on this site. "Condemn, belittle or ridicule other writers." I have never done that in ANY of my posts. Nor have I seen it done on this site. The only negativity I bring is how so many contests have con writers into thinking that the contest is so worthy of your time, effort and money.

And my review of your script, I thought was positive. Matter of fact, I said that you had a marketable concept and that I liked it. I also said that you had talent as a writer. So, where your attitude and complaints come from is way beyond me. You must have a hidden chip on your shoulder that came from somewhere. Here’s a suggestion, go back and read all my posts... point out what you think is bitter, arrogant, condescending or even negative about you or the writers here on this site and send me an email. I’ll be glad to discuss this with you.

I understand about this big surge in contests. Years ago there were maybe 4 or 5 now there’s more than a hundred. It's a new phenomenon that's creating “contest junkies.” A writer can now sit back in the luxury of their home, write and send out a PDF. Brag to their friends that they have placed or won a contest and feel part of Hollywood. It’s safe and easy.

But, until you start knocking on the doors, sending out query letters, making the phone calls, creating the relationships and sending your script out to the real world... you’re still at square one and that’s scary.

Because now you’re being judged by the big boys. The ones who have the power to start your writing career. Their expectations are high. That’s not being arrogant or bitter, that’s just the fact.

Just read Vic's blog and watched his video. He's absolutely right.

Now... do all of you know what you need to do? Write a commercially viable screenplay that is a fun read, shows off your talent as a writer, and has a unique voice.

Hollywood is ALWAYS looking for new talent. You can be that 1 percent. Breaking in is easy if you have a great script that agents want to sell and producers want to make. It happens all the time. The hard part... is writing it.

Mr. Undari is right.

If a producer wants to steal your work they probably will. But they won't. It's much cheaper to pay the writer for their work than go through a lawsuit. Hollywood doesn't have time for lawsuits. Now,if the writer sues a producer or studio then he/she can kiss their screenwriting career goodby. Forever. No one will hire them.

A new comedy writer ask Jerry Seinfeld, how do you stop them from stealing? Mr. Seinfeld said, "I write faster."

Concentrate on writing a marketable script and don't worry about stealing. There's over 60,000 screenplays registered with the WGA each year.

The odds are very high that someone out there has the same exact concept as you do. But... the key is how the concept is executed. That's where you the individual comes in with your own unique take and voice.

Professional scripts -

Are based on strong simple story lines that are well developed in terms of action, conflict, and character and the effect of the conflict on the characters. As a result, these scripts feel complex and genuine. Characters seem authentic, with emotional lives, and the action has weight and meaning.

Amateur scripts -

Are over plotted in terms of action and under plotted in terms of character and emotion. We see lots of scenes with the characters running from one problem to the next, getting in and out of scrapes, but we don’t see the effect of the conflict on those characters. The result is the amateur screenplays feel confused and flat. Ultimately, meaning is sacrificed, and the reader is left not knowing what to feel.

But... the Pro script will get you your first sale and a career. What happens AFTER it is sold is out of your hands.

Here's a lesson on how to build conflict and make each scene blend into the other. I was taught this by an old screenwriter many moons ago. And recently, I heard it again from the two guys who created South Park.

When creating your scenes, you should never be thinking, AND THEN this happens AND THEN this happens and so on. This will create a flat, boring story with little or no conflict.

Instead, think in terms of THEREFORE and BUT. So... THIS HAPPENS and THEREFORE this happens BUT THIS happens THEREFORE THIS happens and so on.

Not only are you building conflict throughout your story while creating an action and reaction but you're interlocking your scenes together like pieces of a puzzle. Interconnecting with each other to build a complete picture story. One scene can't live without the other.

If you can do that with brilliance... then Hollywood will be knockin' at your door.

The Dudester.

Man oh man...

If every screenwriter thought like you folks there wouldn't be anybody in Hollywood reading your scripts! Hundreds and hundreds of scripts go through Hollywood everyday. I know many writers who don't even register their scripts.

If "they" want to steal your precious idea, "they" will. And then what? You're going to take the time and money to sue them? Fat chance.

There are so many ideas and stories that are similar out there, that please don't think that you have something that is that original. It's not.

Sign the forms. You want people to read your scripts. That's your goal. Right?

What all of you should be worried about is... writing a great script that sets you apart as a creative, talented writer with a unique voice that "they" want to hire. Not some paranoid person who's afraid of everyone stealing from them. Come from abundance not scarcity.

Contests are about rules. Hollywood is about stories. Compelling, universal and marketable stories to be exact.

Hollywood in general follows the 3 act structure. Why? Because it works for the audience.

Hollywood doesn't care whether you have FLASHBACK ENDS HERE or not. That's a non issue. As long as the script "looks" like a professional screenplay its good to go. Contests on the other hand are like school. Every "i" must be dotted and every "t" must be crossed. That's their rules. The bigger problem you have to face... your story MUST be marketable. There MUST be an audience. That's one of the first questions that a producer asks, How can I market this? Not, is the script formatted and structured correctly.

Since I've read Mr. Undari's script, People vs, God, let's take his script for example: He won first place in a contest, great! Job well done. Shows that he has some credibility. With a win, he should get plenty of requests. Now can he sell it? Can he take it to the next level? Let's find out.

Who's the audience going to be for a lawyer going after God story? Is it the TWILIGHT crowd? Probably not. How about the BRIDESMAIDS crowd? Probably not. JUSTIN BIEBER'S crowd? Nope. Maybe the BABYBOOMERS? Well.. if half of them are too religious, probably not. So... If you're a producer who has 5 to 20 million tied up in this, how do you market this story to get the most bang for your buck?? And that's the kink. It maybe well written, formatted right, well structured and may win more contests but is it going to sell?

That's what ALL scripts are faced with. Is it a marketable concept for the general public. Is there an audience out there that will pay 10-15 bucks to see your movie? This is the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION.

Can Mr. Undari's story go directly to DVD and make some money? Maybe, who knows. Right now, its a writing sample.

Here's another thing that a producer and distibutor is looking at... the foreign market. The foreign market has gone up three-fold since the internet. Meaning, more money is being made overseas from an American film than in America. Never use to be that way, now it is.Your concept must be so universal that the whole world wants to see it.

I've said this before, go back and look at all the Nicholl winners and see how many of those scripts were made into movies. Only a handful. I doubt that they won because of format or structure.

So you can talk, argue, complain about structure all you want but if you don't have a compelling, universal, marketable concept then structure and format really doesn't matter.... except for a contest.

Paul,

Do your research on who all is going to be there and what each company is looking for. Also, make sure you have plenty of one sheets... and watch out for them English.

Julia,

I never said that I don't like contests. I said, if you're going to go the contest route stick with the top 10. The ones that Hollywood recognizes. The rest are out for the money.

"So all we need is a compelling, universal, marketable script and to cold call production companies. And since the script sounds so compelling and marketable they will ask to read it and either option you or say it's not what they are looking for at this time." YEP! Now you got it!

As far as story structure formulas, I stick to them like glue and so does most working writers I know. Once you understand and know structure then it becomes second nature. Some writers automatically write in story structure because they some how naturally know the craft of story. Others like myself, had to study it, dissect it and learn it.

Think of structure like a regular course meal. You get served the drinks, bread, salad, the main course, and then dessert. That's what most of us are use to. The creative part comes from the type of drinks, bread, salad, main course and dessert that is served. Look at how many different types salads that are out there. Probably thousands. Same with the main course and desserts. But the structure is always the same. It's served the same way each time.

Now, from time to time you get something extraordinary like a Pulp Fiction or Memento. But, if you recut Pulp Fiction into a 3 act structure it will fit like a glove. Same with Memento, if it was played in reverse the 3 act structure it there.

So yes, I believe in screenplay structure 100 percent. It's the spine of the story. I also outline all my stories. Outlining is like planning a cross country road trip. If you start in Los Angeles and you want to end up in New York City, you need to plan out the trip before hand. Otherwise, where do you start? How much money do you need? What are you going to see along the way? How much time is it going to take you?And how do you know when you get to New York City?

Many writers just write, and that's great but they usually run out of story around page 45. Like running out of gas. Then they have to go back and figure out what they can jam in there to make it longer. And guess how long that takes?

When you outline, you know where you're going. Can you still be creative? Absolutely. Will it save a ton of time? You bet. And it's much easier to change your story in an outline than in a finished script. That's why many screenwriters still use the 3x5 index cards. Because they can move around scenes easily.

I do all my work on a laptop. I use a couple of software programs and I'm good to go. I try to be as efficient as I can when I write. I spend months outlining and only weeks writing the actual script. For me, I get bored with my characters and story if I spend too much time of them, so I want my story on the page as fast as possible.

One thing that I forgot to add...

Story structure formulas get a bad rap. People say to me, "That movie was too formulaic. So I didn't like it."

The problem with the movie isn't that it's too formulaic but that it lacks story structure and so people either get bored or they get confused. They don't know where the story is going, why the characters know or don't know what's going on, what the goal is, etc. If it's a bad movie it's usually because of lack of structure, not because of it.

Paul, Regarding one sheets...

Include: genre, title, synposis, contact information and an optional image. The optional image would be a image that represents your screenplay such as the poster for your script. It could be full page or any size that looks right.

Remember on the synposis, 3 short, tight, sentences or paragaphs. Make them exciting, bold, compassionate! Same with the image. Make it cool, arty, like a real movie poster. The better the design, the more attraction it brings to want to read your script. This is the piece that they are taking back to the office so you gotta to sell it!

The "English" represents a quote from the movie, Witness. I think it was, "You be careful out among the English." Just my little attempt for some humor.

One more thing on the Pitchfest. Start with the smallest companies and work up to the biggest. Why? Because you're going to be very nervous and you don't want to screw up on the big boys. It will take you about 4 or 5 times before you have your pitch down and your confidence up. So practice on the smaller companies first.

Paul,

Whatever floats your boat. My suggestion: Look at a lot of movie posters to get a feel of the design and attitude. Just make it a strong image that's the core of your story.

Hee's how many writers do it:

When they first lay out their story, they create a lot of different scenes. Action scenes, love scenes, fight scenes, quite scenes at work scenes, play scenes, etc. Then they separate the scenes into the 3 acts and start piecing the story together.

What I do: I've created a template outline that has all my beats throughout the story. Then I go back and fill it in, one beat at a time. Kinda like the Blake Snyder Beat sheet that's in his books but much more detailed.

Then I'll go over the outline again and again to see if I'm missing anything. Many times I'll discover that a few scenes are out of whack because my story has chnaged a little or I want to add an extra scene here or there to fill in the story. With my template it gives me the flexibility.

Paul,

Make it easy for the reader. Print the info on the front. A standard size sheet is fine. Make it a card stock thickness or at least thicker than normal 20lb. paper. Like 60 or 80 lb. Go to a copy place and have it printed.

Remember, you want it to look polished and professional. This is your calling card for your movie. You only have one chance to make an impression. All of this is about marketing yourself and your movie.

Julia,

Yes, that's right. There are specific beats that you should hit in all the acts. Whether they hit on an exact page I don't really worry about, just as long as they are there in the right places. Even in Snyder's second book, Save the Cat Goes to the Movies, many of the movies that he describes the beats, do not hit on specific page numbers, BUT the beat is definitely there.

Act one has some very specific beats that need to be there within the 25 to 30 pages. It's like building a foundation for a house. You need to have it built a certain way otherwise the house can't stand up or hold the weight. Same with your story. And since the new thing is to have scripts between 100 to 110 pages no matter what genre then it becomes even more critical.

Here's a great article about 3 act structure by Charles Deemer.

Very early in one's screenwriting studies, the beginner will learn how important screenplay structure is. "Screenplays are structure," William Goldman (Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, The Princess Bride, Absolute Power, etc.) writes over and over again in his wonderful book, Adventures in the Screen Trade. The way a story is put together, its dramatic structure, is one of the very important skills a beginning screenwriter must master. Act One, Act Two, Act Three

Okay, structure is important. But what does this mean exactly? As the beginning screenwriter studies more, he or she soon will encounter something called "three-act structure." A screenplay has an Act One, Act Two and Act Three, each in which certain story elements are developed (set up, conflict, and resolution, in broad terms). Fine. But then the student is likely to learn things that begin a cycle of increased confusion: no, a self-appointed screenwriting guru will insist, a screenplay doesn't have three acts, it has four acts. No, argues another, it has seven acts. No, says still another, there are twelve steps that are necessary to build solid screenplay structure. Soon, everywhere the student turns reveals a new theory about what screenplay structure means. What is going on? What is going on is competition for your attention -- and business. Screenwriting education is a hot new cottage industry because "the Great American Screenplay" (not the "Great American Novel," as in my generation) is what more and more young writers aspire to write. In this competitive environment, "new takes" on screenplay structure become koans for the new gurus who appear to meet increased demand for information on how to write for the screen. If the beginner isn't confused by this barrage of information, he or she hasn't been paying attention. What is important to understand is that these many theories are not in competition with one another at all; they complement one another. First, they all -- without exception! -- are rooted in three-act dramatic structure as first set down by Aristotle in his Poetics. This simply is the way stories are told in our culture. Second, they each focus on a particular aspect of this theory or recast the theory into new terminology. Dramatic Movement

Aristotle's theory, which is at the very root of storytelling craft in western culture, is that we tell stories that have a beginning (Act One), a middle (Act Two), and an end (Act Three). In other words, our stories have dramatic movement -- THINGS HAPPEN. One of the wisest things ever written about structure comes from Richard Toscan (author of The Playwriting Seminars on the Internet): "American movies are about what happens next." When properly understood, this is a profound statement about how we tell stories. Movement. Change.

What causes movement and change in a story? Conflict. Screenplay structure, then, is rooted in conflict, story movement, change, so we are always asking ourselves: What happens next? And who is involved in conflict? People. Our characters. In particular, our main character, called the protagonist, because Hollywood stories are almost always star-centered, main-character-centered, hero-centered, protagonist-centered. When a protagonist wants something (goal) and faces someone or something that prevents him or her from getting it (obstacle or antagonist), you have conflict. HERO'S GOAL + OBSTACLE = CONFLICT.

This simple rule is the basis of good filmic storytelling. Conflict, conflict, and more conflict. The skill is to keep focus on the protagonist and to build conflict so the journey of the protagonist moves into more dangerous and challenging territory, leading to the final confrontation and resolution. Three-act structure is a tool for doing exactly this. Telling a story without three-act structure (no matter what you call it) is like building a house without a foundation. Without foundation, the walls are going to sag -- and eventually the house will self-destruct. Three-act structure is the very foundation of filmic storytelling, and without it your screenplay will self-destruct. The opposite of wanting to know what happens next is boredom, which is the worst thing that can be said about a story. Three-act screenplay structure precludes boredom by arranging story events in such an order that conflict causes change, which in turn causes new conflict, building and building until the story's final confrontation and resolution. Set up, Conflict (and more conflict, and more), Resolution. Beginning, Middle, End. Act One, Act Two, Act Three -- no matter what you call it.

I couldn't have said it better myself. SD.

...And that's why it was a flop.

Congrats Paul!

STEAK KNIVES!! (watch Glengarry Glen Ross for those who don't know)

Now... stick to the top ten contests and stop wasting money. Didn't we have this discussion before?

Folks... please. If you're going to enter a contest, at least enter the ones that separate the genres so you have a better chance of winning. Going up against a Drama when you've entered a comedy is like going up against Schindler's List with The Hangover. Who do you think is going to win? And stick to the ones that have a track record for their winners.

Spending a 100 bucks on an entry fee? Wow! There's a sucker ( I mean screenwriter ) born every minute.

Michael, Here's the top ten that I hear about most often. Not in any order:

1) Nicholls 2) PAGE 3) ScriptPipeline 4) Final Draft Big Break 5) Trackingb 6) Austin 7) Scriptapalooza 8) SlamDance 9) Creative World 10) Fresh Voices and or Screenplay Festival

As far as entering Nicholls, they take all genres. They go for the best, well written story. Whether it is marketable or not. The thing about Nicholls is that it holds a lot of weight with just about everyone in Hollywood. Much more than ANY other contest.

If you're a Nicholl's fellowship winner, you pretty much hit the jackpot. But, that doesn't mean your script will sell, but it does mean the doors are open for you. Wide open. The key is to have a follow up script or scripts that are marketable and many of the past winners didn't have that. So, be prepared.

There are so many reasons that your scripts won't sell or ever get made. From lousy script readers, to lousy concepts, to lousy writing. Hollywood is built around the word, NO. It's easy to say and there's no skin off anyone's back (except the writer's). It takes a lot of balls to greenlight a project. Many lose their jobs because of it. One too many flops and you're out of there. I would hate to be an executive. It's the hardest job and business out there. How many of you would say "yes" to a script if you knew your job depended on it being a success?

Paul is right, there is a lot of luck involved. Both inside Hollywood and outside. No one knows what's going to be a hit or not. It's a big crap game. I know writers who have written 10 to 20 scripts and yet to win a contest, get an agent or sell a script. Yet, they continue... waiting for their turn to come or maybe they just pissed away their turn.

Now a days everyone and their brother and sister is a screenwriter. Everyone is a script guru, everyone has workshops and books that they're pushin'. Which means there are thousands and thousands of script floating around out there and 99 percent of them are crap. It takes a lot of time sifting through all of them to find that one nugget. That one voice that stands above the crowd.

But, guess what? People still make it. New writers are popping up every day. The spec sales are at a high for this year. So, Paul and all the rest of you... don't give up. It's just not your turn yet. But, when it is... you better be frickin' ready.

Michael, It would be wise to have two scripts in one genre. Which one? Comedy. It's much easier to sell but harder to write. Animation and Sc-fi are very hard sells for first time writers. I maybe wrong, but I don't know of any new writer selling either one recently.

You probably won't go wrong with good ol' Francis Ford. He will always be the man.

Hey HR, Here's my email: LASCRIPTDUDE@LIVE.COM Let's talk.

Congrats to all of you... Enjoy the glow. Mike H, thanks for mentioning me. Always feel good to help.

For those of you who didn't make it... it's just the luck of the draw. In ALL contests it goes down to one thing, did it connect with the reader? If that person woke up on the wrong side of the bed with a headache because in got in a fight with his girlfriend, and your story is about finding the perfect girl, well.... you're screwed.

Remember, you can have the greatest script ever written and not win one contest. Or you can have the right script at the right time, sell it for six figures and it turns into a blockbuster.

I've said this before, I know of one writer who entered 3 of the top contests. The first two, he didn't make the first round, the last one, he became a winner, a Nicholl's Fellowship winner. Since then, every script that he has written has turned into a movie. It's all a crap shoot.

I see that some of you are finally getting the message about contests. Let me say one thing about readers. There are two types: Contest Readers and Hollywood Readers. Contest Readers go for the art, indy, small character stories that usually have a small art-house audience. And these stories seldom make their money back and seldom get made. But, it's for the art. Not always, but this type of reader tends to despise Hollywood.

Hollywood Readers on the other hand, go for big action, commercial, marketable, universal theme stories that will have a large audience because they want and need to make their money back so they can make more films.

Remember that when you enter any contest. If you can, find out what "type" of reader is judging the contest. It will make a difference whether you have a chance or not.

One more thing...

If you find out that the reader(s) has never worked in Hollywood -- for a producer, agent, manager, prod. company or studio then they ARE a Contest Reader no matter what they think or say.

And if they brag that they have read a ton of screenplays because of the love they have for movies or it's their hobby or any other BS then you're going to get pot luck for sure.

I just had a discussion with a newbie about reading screenplays.

You can get a lot of great information reading screnplays and try to read as many as you can get your hands on... BUT, please read only good screenplays.

Don't read the crappy ones. Don't study what doesn't work! Read crap and you're going to get crap. Same with movies, watch the top 100 AFI list or the Oscar lists. What are you going to learn from Norbit or Freddie Got Fingered? Like they say, garbage in, garbage out.

Please study the masters. Those you can read and watch over and over again and pick up new stuff each and everytime. Reading crappy scripts and watching crappy movies is a BIG waste of time.

I don't care who tells you differently...

Don't do it.

Paul, You're confusing the outside world with the inside world of Hollywood. Here's two points:

1) Agents and managers are not screenwriting guru's or contest readers. They just want a good story told well. So they don't care. As long as it enhances the experience of the read. They are good to go.

2) The Alan Loebs, the Shane Blacks, the Quentin Tarantinos can get away with it. Why? Because they have a TRACK RECORD! You don't. That's why they're A-list writers. They have developed their own style of writing and can deliver. Paul and all the rest of you have to prove yourself FIRST before you can color outside the lines.

When you read top screenplays, study the pacing of the dialogue, how the scenes are constructed, the structure of the A story and how all the subplots are connected, how they create emotion, how they hide exposition, how they create conflict... I can go on and on.

Robert, You keep querying, going to pitchfests, seminars, workshops, and making contacts and more contacts. And yes, enter the top contests.

You keep pushing and pushing. I know two writers who wrote over 1000 query letters. Sent them to everyone. Only a handful (less than 10 answered back). One requested the script and within a week the script sold for six figures. That was 5 years ago.

Things have even gotten harder today. There are more newbies out there than ever before. I heard that there was over 7200 scripts entered in the Nicholls. But, it only takes one to get in. Have the rght script at the right time and you're golden. It's a big numbers game.

Bobbette,

Chalk it up to experience and don't use him/her again. That's unbelievable that a paid reader would tell you something like that...

Now that I think more about it. Ask for a refund. Or, ask to have another reader do the analyst again. Or, have the reader explain in detail what they meant and what solutions if any, they would suggest.

James, you're absolutley right. The readers for producers, agents, managers, and studios go through thousands of scripts a week.

You should see a producer's office. Tons of scripts from wall to wall staked from floor to ceiling just WAITING to be read. That doesn't count the ones they get every week from the outside world.

You folks forget, Hollywood is the magnet for the world. That's why relationships are so important or if you win a "top" contest then yours will get moved to the front of the pile.

People, people, people....

I've read all your posts and here's a REALITY CHECK. It's just a frickin' CONTEST!

That's all it IS. It's not going to change your world one way or another. If they have rules that you don't like, DON'T ENTER.

Geez, you guys either have way too much time on your hands or you take yourselves way too seriously.

And Paul, I didn't know that his message board became the Paul Undari Blog. Wow... you really must have a lot of time on your hands, buddy.

You want to become better writers? Then all of you should be busy writing and finishing your scripts. What do you think.... that you have all the time in the world to write? I think that you folks are forgetting that life is pretty damn short and precious too be pissin' it away on a message board.

Trust me on this one.

I'll be there as well... should be a great time.

Michael is right. It is a weird request. I've never heard of a producer asking for a tagline. Maybe he's trying to get an idea of what direction you're going with your concept.

Asking for a logline and a synopsis and/or treatment is an easy cliffnote way of seeing if there's a solid hook and story that has commercial potential before devoting time to your script. The producer's time is limited, so they want to know as quick as possible if your idea is worthy.

Coming up with a great logline or 45 sec. pitch can do wonders for getting a producer to read you script. It's also a great way to pitch an idea BEFORE you spend 6 months writing a script that nobody wants.

I totally agree with Daniel Manus's article.

Ted, the problem isn't with the logline. It's with the two sisters. Hollywood isn't there yet with double female rolls. They don't make money.

Yes, there are a few exceptions, Thelma and Louise for one. But, it wasn't a comedy. Even Bridesmaids is another example and it is a comedy but look how long it took to have an all female cast. Plus, it had the raunch factor. So coming from you, an unknown writer, it's a very hard sell. Don't ask me why but it is.

See... even winning contests doesn't guarantee a read, a career, or even a manager. Like Mr. Manus says, "no one OWES you anything because you wrote 100 pages."

This business is frickin' hard even for the pros wit track records.

Keep that one in your back pocket after you've made it with something more commercial. Then bring it out and they'll think you're a genius.

Guys, It's great that you came up with a better logline but...

It's the sisters (subject matter) that won't get Ted the reads. Sorry Bruce, just because you have a solid logline, a funny script, a few contest wins, doesn't mean you'll get the insiders to read your script.

I've said this in the past, look at the Winning Scripts section of this site and read the loglines. They may have placed in a number of contests and are probably well written but, it's the subject matter that is holding them back.

Run ... run like the wind and stay away from them.

Here's an article that all you newbies should read.

Hollywood Accounting: How A $19 Million Movie Makes $150 Million... And Still Isn't Profitable

from the a-ham-sandwich dept

We've written about the wonders of Hollywood accounting before. It's a series of tricks pulled by Hollywood studios to make most of their movies look unprofitable, even when they're making a ton of money. The details can be complex, but a simplified version is that every studio sets up a new "shell" company for each movie -- and that company is specifically designed to lose money. The studio gives that company the production budget (the number you usually see) and then also agrees to pay for marketing and related expenses above and beyond that. Both of those numbers represent (mostly) actual cash outlays from the studio and are reasonable to count as expenses.

Then comes the sneaky part: on top of all that, the studios charge the "movie company" a series of fees for other questionable things. Many of these fees involve no real direct expense for the studio, but basically pile a huge expense onto the income statement and ensure that the studio keeps getting all of the movie income -- rather than having to share the profits with key participants -- long after the movie would be considered profitable under regular accounting rules. Here's a hypothetical example of how this could work in practice, using round numbers just to make the point (these aren't directly accurate numbers, but the concept is). A studio funds A Movie with a production budget of $100 million. It sets up AMovieCo Inc. and gives it the production budget money. The studio then spends another $50 million on marketing and puts that down as an expense as well -- though, with some of the big studios, some of this money involves paying itself for advertising on its own properties.

Still, even if we assume that's real money spent, you might think that AMovieCo now needs to make back $150 million to be profitable. But... the studio (which, again, controls AMovieCo completely) then tacks onto all of that, say, a $250 million "distribution fee." Now, while there may be some money spent on actually distributing the film, the number is almost completely bogus, and much higher than the actual expense for the studio. Very little actual money needs to change hands here -- it's just a fee on the books (a fee they are effectively charging to themselves).

And it's not just "distribution" but a variety of additional charges. On top of that, the studio may then charge "interest" on that money, even though it's really just lending money to itself. What it all means is that rather than becoming profitable at ~$150 million (the actual money spent), AMovieCo now needs to earn over $400 million before anyone with a cut of the profits sees an additional dime from the movie, thanks to completely imaginary accounting entries on the books. Over on Kevin Smith's (really, really, fascinating) Smoviemakers podcast, Smith recently interviewed filmmaker Scott Derrickson, who has made a name for himself in the horror film world. The whole interview is fantastic and well worth listening to, starting with part one. However, right at the beginning of part two, Derrickson reveals how he effectively got shafted on one of his most well known films, The Exorcism of Emily Rose. Scott Derrickson (SD): It made $75 [million] domestic and $150 [million] worldwide... Kevin Smith (KS): Nice. You're a true filmmaker, you know exactly what your movies made everywhere... SD: Hellllll yeah.

KS: It's a badge of honor.

SD: And to all the young filmmakers listening, I had 5% of the net of that movie. That was in my contract. And it cost $19 million. And it made $150 million worldwide. There's no net. That's how movie math works. KS: So even you were not above being screwed by the system.

SD: I told my attorney, the next time you're negotiating my net profit for a movie, ask for a ham sandwich instead. KS: 'Cause you'll get something.

SD: 'Cause I'll get something [laughter] Basically, it's the same story as always. The net doesn't exist... but because of the extra massive "fees" the studio tacks on, it makes back many times its money before it even has to go anywhere near paying the writer and director to whom it promised 5%. Related to this, it comes as no surprise that later in the podcast, Derrickson talks about his recognition that the real future in movies is being able to make them much more cheaply, and outside of studio control. He talks about being influenced by the movie Monsters, which was made for a few hundred thousand dollars, but which he notes would have probably cost a studio $50 million to make. At that point, he realized that to survive in this business, he had to be able to learn to make movies much more cheaply:

SD: The other thing that was happening at that time, was I was watching the business change dramatically.... The movie that was a paradigm shift for me was the sci-fi movie Monsters. Have you seen that movie? KS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SD: It's this great sci-fi movie where this guy, for $800,000 and his little barebones crew, with a small digital camera, made a movie that would have cost Warner Bros. $50 million to make.... He was one of the first of this new generation who grew up with his laptop. He did like 250 visual effects in the movie on his own laptop. And he made a $50 million movie for $800,000. I saw that happening. I saw what Jason Blum was doing with the Paranormal Activity movies and I said, you know what, the business is changing and you gotta evolve or die. And so part of my interest in doing a movie so small is that I want to be a part of what's happening right now. And I want to be a front runner. I want to be good at it.

They then discuss his new movie, Sinister, which had a $3 million budget (which shocks Smith, who insists it looks like a movie that's much more expensive). Of course, in many ways, this goes back to the discussion we've been having here for many, many years -- responding to the old school movie studio guys, who demand that we answer how could they possibly continue to make $200 million movies. One answer, which we've pointed out time and time again, is that the question is the wrong one. Any business should be asking how it can make its product profitably -- not how it can keep its costs high.

No one in the tech industry asks "how can we continue to make $5,000 computers?" They ask "how can we make profitable computers" and one answer is to make the product more efficiently. It's great to see filmmakers like Derrickson not just get that, but then celebrate what that means for him artistically and financially as well.

SD: I want what matters to matter to me.... Knowing that I had final cut in the movie, knowing that's what it was about, I've never had more fun or been more relaxed while making a movie, because I just wasn't worried about how it would do. I'm making this movie because when it's done I'm gonna see it.... I think a lot of filmmakers go through the experience.... you have that difficult studio experience.... you come out of that experience, and it's not just that 'if you die on a swords, it's gonna be my sword,' it's that thing that 'I'm going to make something that's 100% pure. I'm just going to make something 100% pure...' In the last few years we've been hearing and seeing similar things from a number of filmmakers, recognizing that perhaps the challenges that the movie industry has faced have been self-imposed in large degrees. The industry got used to doing things one way and have had trouble adapting.

But, of course, the actual artists and creators figure this stuff out and they adapt... even while the big studios still play their accounting tricks. And have no fear, with a movie this cheaply made, Derrickson notes that if the movie does okay, it could make him "rich" based on the way he structured the deal this time around. He teamed up with Blumhouse Productions (who backed Paranormal Activity) and while they're using a traditional distributor (which anyone still has to do for a real theatrical release), the economics this time around are quite different than for a film where a major MPAA studio is playing the usual accounting tricks.

Hey Paul, I think it was a sincere response, but a soft no. If they really wanted it right now, they would have at least tied it up with an option. My opinion, don't quit your day job.

When people are hot on a script, they want it right now... no matter what. But, you made a good contact for the future. I'm sure they'll want to read more of your stuff. Every contact counts because you just never know.

Jonathan, You're absolutely right. Unless you end up making it yourself. But, concept is always king in Hollywood.

What's unique about the Black List... it's the closest you'll get to Hollywood. Much closer than a contest or a script consultant would give you.

Ted, Here's your problem... Hollywood only recognizes a handful of contests. Now, if you won the Nicholls, ScriptPipeline, Page, Austin you would have a better chance of being noticed. But, you haven't yet. So, my advice is send out those query letters with your wins listed and see if you get a better response. You may or may not.

Contests are only good if Hollywood knows about them and if they have a good reputation/track record. The majority of contests listed on this site have neither and are a waste of time and money. Unless... of course, they offer you big prize money. At least then you'll get money you can use. Even then, I've heard of contests stiffing the winners. So, they can screw you on both ends. Stick with the top 5 or 8 and forget the rest.

If you're going to continue to stay in screenwriting, you have to love it unconditionally, never quit, have a day job and NEVER EVER act desperate.

Here's what I mean as far as Hollywood.... every year more and more managers and indie producers take a look at the winners and even some of the finalists of the contests that I have mentioned. They figure that it's a great way to weed out the crap and they just may get lucking and find a nugget.

Look at the writer of Snow White and The Huntsman. He won the grand prize in the Scriptpipeline contest a few years back. I believe it was an agent or manager that made contact and got him his break. I know of a quarterfinalist in the Nicholls who made contact with a manager and now he's writing a tentpole picture. And speaking about the Nicholls, Michael S. is dead wrong about that one. Ask Harvey Weinstein, he'll take a read on any of the winners asap. No agency has the time or the interest of running their own contest. They have plenty of talent across the board and it takes extra work which they don't like do. They already put in 100 hours a week. Why would they want to run a contest?

So, yes a handful of contests work for opening a door. Will it get you and agent? Not from any of the big boys. Their plates are full, they don't need to look. But managers and producers are always looking. And if they find a script they like, they'll know who to send it to. Trust me on this one. Remember it's managers and producers you want to impress. Not agents.

Michael S. is right about no money for films and yes, the award winning writers are having a hard time. But, maybe they want or demand too much. Maybe they're hard to work with because they won an award. There's a million reasons why some writers are always working and some haven't worked in years.

I know of winners of the Nicholls that have yet to kick start their career. Why? Because they missed their opportunity that was given to them and now they have to start all over again. Many new writers can't handle the stress or their attitude sucks. So they screw up their golden chance. I know of a few writers in that catagory. While other writers jump on an opportunity and now have a full fledge career. With or without a contest win.

The problem in the past 10 years... EVERYONE THINKS THEY'RE A SCREENWRITER. Now, there are thousands and thousands of newbies coming in every week. I heard that the WGA registers 70,000 scripts a year. 20 years a go, it was 10 to 20,000. There maybe more opportunities because of the Internet but that's the problem, more people want to do it. Look at how many books, workshops, and seminars are out there right now feeding you the dream. It's just too easy for everyone to participate. So... it takes that much longer to break in.

BUT... new writers break in everyday. So somebody is getting in. It might as well be YOU.

It's not about the money, it's about the concept. I can guarantee that if a newbie writer had a great high concept, well-executed script, with a universal, marketable, commercial theme/story with a great character arc for an A-list actor...that script would sell and get made in a heartbeat.

Period.

Here's an idea...

Let's make this a creative, positve exercise.

If "Kat Lady" was a character in a script, describe her in the fewest words possible. Making sure the reader gets a total picture of who she is and what attitude she brings.

The people who post on this site will choose a winner. That winner will get a free script analysis from me.

What do you think?

Okay... put your producer/agent/manager hat on. If you had only this one character description to go by... and out of the ones so far, which one would you pick to read the script?

You're right Robert... you don't have to be a musician but you do have to be sane.

So far, I agree with Bruce and William, JJ Hillard has strongest description. Short, to the point, and most of all... a very visual image.

Never forget, LESS is ALWAYS more when it comes to screenwriting. Make every word count by choosing wisely.

I'll wait one more week. If any of you want to resubmit and think you can make it shorter with a stronger image.... Go for it.

Next Thursday will be the deadline.

And the winner is JJ Hillard.

Send me your best script and I'll be glad to read it.

lascriptdude@live.com

P and P, the only thing I would change in Paul's comment is that "3 out of 10 percentage." If you only have 3 out of 10 people liking your script, concept, writing or whatever... you need to go back to the drawing board. It needs to be at least 6 out of 10 to continue on... otherwise you're just wasting your time.

Nowdays, there are so many scripts out there that it better have a really great, brain catching concept. And even then, the execution must be flushed out to the fullest before it will get any traction at all.

Things are getting so tight in Hollywood that now they're demanding attachments before they'll even read a script. Especially from a new writer and even from many of the pros. Meaning... funding in place and actor commitments. It's tough out there.

This site has a lot of good writers. Whether they will take the time is another thing. Great, fast read, well execution scripts take 2 hours or less to read and comments are easy to write up. Shitty, bad structured, bad execution scripts take 2 weeks and are very painful to write comments because it drains every ounce of passion and creativity out of the reader.

Good luck and I hope your script is in the first catagory.

You're all correct. Always remember... the old cliche, it's called "SHOW BUSINESS" not SHOW ART.