Message Board

Thanks, Nancy, Paula, Grover, and George. It feels good to have your writing recognized and appreciated. And Australia has always been #1 on my travel-wish-list. Am very busy rewriting stuff, now.

If anyone is looking for advice, my advice is this -- read Robt McKee's "Story." Some people think it's too academic and stuffy, but I think it's sheer genius and it helped me recognize story shortcomings in my screenplays, which I am continuing to address.

Good luck to y'all. Keep writing and keep submitting.

Terry

If you're writing with Final Draft, you can generate Character Reports, which isolate the dialogue of individual characters. It's a good tool for examining a character's dialogue for voice and consistency. FD also generates scene reports.

Terry

I think we all share that problem. It's hardest to tell your own family that you don't have time to script their ideas, especially after they've been your most faithful readers for years.

Now, I don't ask anyone to read my scripts. I let them ask. That way, I don't owe them anything. And I make it clear that I have several more of my own ideas I want to pursue before I can consider any others, which is the truth.

Terry

'Scuse my ignorance, but where's this Contest Report Card to which y'all are referring?

Terry

ONCE AGAIN, WHERE'S THIS CONTEST REPORT CARD?

Frederick,

Thanks. I never noticed that feature before.

My duh,

Terry

Frederick,

I suggest that voting be restricted to people who have participated in a contest. How can someone who hasn't entered relate an experience they javen't had? Comments from non-participants can be posted right here.

Just a thought. You provide a wonderful service to the screenwriting and contest community.

Terry

Another possibility:

Lucifer scoops up the universe.

As a line of action, it tells the story without trying to direct it. The director may choose to focus on the universe being scooped up, or on Lucifer's hand (or scoop), or on God or some angel watching in horror.

Directing via format is still directing, is readily recognized by industry readers, and is considered amateurish. Our job is to tell the story. The director's job is to show it.

Just a thought. Do what works best for you and is consistent with your style throughout the script.

LATER

is all that is needed. To use a complete slugline might even suggest to some readers that it's a new location, only later. If it's not a new location, why repeat it

But write to your own style, and be consistent.

I cut everything that isn't essential. I describe only what must be described and with as little detail as possible. Why? To keep my scripts under 110 pages. Also, the people who read scripts often read dozens every week. They don't want to read extra words or elegant description which doesn't advance the plot. Fortunately, though, the rules of screenwriting are flexible. You get to do what suits you, and you hope it suits the reader. When I finished this paragraph, I went back and deleted a third of the words, and I'll bet you're glad.

Formatting is one of the most confusing and frequently discussed topics on this board. We read and hear conflicting opinions and rules. Fortunately, screenplay format has enough flexibility that few fixed rules apply. You are permitted to do what works best for a given script.

In my screenplay Blue Ground, which I have been rewriting, after page one there's not a single slugline using only a character's name or an object on which to focus. Every slugline is either standard or just

LATER

It simply wasn't necessary to do it any other way, and no closeups needed to be called.

But, in Rochester, I frequently use a character's name as a slugline. It's necessary for clarity, since much of the action takes place in a theater and includes action and dialogue on stage and action and dialogue in the pit and boxes. For all action on stage I use

ON STAGE

For all action in the pit or boxes, I use a character's name.

Furthermore, since the actors on stage sometimes speak in a play character's voice and sometimes in their own, and since several actors play several characters in several plays, I use a character cue with the play character's name in italics followed by a parenthesis with the actor's name standard. When the actor speaks only as himself, I just use the actor's name alone. There are other means by which clarity could have been accomplished, but this is what worked for me.

I only mention this to suggest that we have the freedom to "bend the rules" or use stylistics in the service of clarity. Standard format isn't really a straightjacket. I guess some of you may argue that what I did is still directing, but I maintain that clarity overrides conformity, even if it appears to be authorial directing.

Your points are well taken. And they make my point -- that format is flexible and allows us a variety of ways to tell the story with clarity. There are some places where I use IN THE PIT or IN THE SIDEBOX, but only when I feel it's necessary. The system I came up with was the result of suggestions from readers and advice from this bulletin board. I see it as play-specific, answering the needs of this particular screenplay. I doubt I'll ever have to use it again. It feels good to shake off the feeling that "standard industry format" is a straightjacket.

Submit a really interesting one-page synopsis to the monthly synopsis contest and you can win yourself a FREE Final Draft program.

If an agent asks for anything more than an SASE, delete him/her from your file. A legitimate, successful agent bears the costs of circulating your work.

If an agent asks for anything more than an SASE, delete him/her from your file. A legitimate, successful agent bears the costs of circulating your work.

I loved Titanic, and I watch it about once a week on DVD. In my opinion, it was brilliant in every respect. Kate's performance was Oscar-worthy, and every scene pushes the story. History or meta-history, I don't care, I loved the love story.

Definitely read McKee's STORY.

I heard actress Ellen Barkin say in a segment from an interview (on Bravo, I believe), that if a scene did not reveal something new about a character, if it only pushed the plot, it should be cut.

I'm trying to learn to think of plot as the unfolding of character.

Have not seen Gladiator. I've heard from so many people that the story is weak that I thought I'd wait till I could watch it at home for free (HBO, etc). That's often a mistake with epics, though. I wish I'd seen Braveheart at the theater.

This is another one of my favorite movies, and GP won an Oscar for her performance. Did anyone besides me feel that she really muffed some of her lines, mostly through awkward timing on the breaks? She often paused at inappropriate places, especially when "reading" lines of poetry or lines of the R&J. Her reading of the plot summary early in the film is a good example. I think her "accent" and expression really saved her in this one. It surprises me, too, because she was so perfect in Emma.

I second Sandy's suggestion. I've used it myself.

OLD MAN

(in Apache)

Leave my dog alone!

When it comes to CONTEST release forms, be sure to read them before you sign them. A few contests require that you give up a percentage of a sale of your script if you win (or maybe just place) in the contest, and they don't even have to be involved in the sale. You're already going to give up 10% to an agent (even if you don't have one) and 42% to taxes, so if you give a contest yet another 10% you'll net only 38%. I think this is most typical of script rep contests where the grand reward is their representation. Anyway, read the contest release and make sure you can live with it before sending them your script and your money.

Note, too, that posting your "winning script" will automatically cause a Winning Scripts link box to be tagged to the end of the contest description if there's not already one there.

This "release" reads like an option contract, not a release. I wouldn't sign it without having a lawyer look it over. One thing which is not mentioned in what you posted is attribution of writing credit. Be wary.

Hey, Babs, did you really find a list of Empyrion finalists or are you just playing mind games? If they did post a list, where is it? Their website doesn't seem to offer such information.

William Brohaugh, "English Through the Ages," ISBN 0-89879-655-5

I got it from Writer's Digest, but it's also available from amazon.com for $17.49.

If you're writing a screenplay set in the past, you may find this to be an invaluable tool. It's divided into two main sections. The second section is an extensive index. You look up a word like "gadzooks" and this section will refer you to the page in the historical section which tells you when the term first appeared in use in English.

The historical section is divided by years, ranging from a couple centuries (1150-1349) to single decades (1980-1989). The chronological sections are further broken down into categories, such as Geography/Places, Plants, Science, Drink, Food, Fashion/Style, Politics, Sports, Magic, Interjections, Slang, Insults, Phrases, etc. You can browse through these sections to get a handle on what terminology was in use in a particular period. You can browse through earlier sections for terms already in use.

A wonderful tool.

Jean,

The book does not deal with dialects per se. You can look through the chronological section for terms which came into use during that period. E.g., bowie knife, Kentucky rifle, casualty, blackmail, corpus delecti, hung jury, jackass, beat a dead horse, freak of nature. Each chronological section includes Insults, Phrases, Archaisms, etc.

Terry

Has posted their winners on their website.

Here's the webpage:

http://www.writersdigest.com/catalog/2001wdwinners.asp

Has announced on their website that they will not be announcing winners for "several months."

Angelina,

You're "hear to help"? I here you.

Having your handwritten script typed for you, and properly formatted (assuming she knows what she's doing) is not a bad price. Not bad at all. However, it might be worthwhile to spend your money on Final Draft or some other software and learn to do it yourself.

On the beaten-to-death topic of brads and washers, I follow my agent's advice -- two brads (ACCO #5 Solid Brass) and no washers.

It's not unusual for contests to take several months to pay off on the awards and prizes. However, six months looks pretty suspicious, especially if you can't get reassurances from them by phone or email.

Advice -- stay on them and keep the tone friendly but concerned.

In my opinion, contests which offer as their prize script representation or "possible option and/or consideration for production" are not worth the entry fee. The contest is nothing but a way for them to collect a fee for considering your script, which they are not otherwise allowed to do. Agents, for example, are not permitted to require or accept payment to review your script.

As a general rule, I use the 40-to-1 formula (which is arbitrary). The cash award must equal at least 40 times the entry fee for me to cough up the bucks, unless the contest has some other compelling draw (e.g., sci-fi only or some other restriction which limits the competition).

Options. If you get offered an option for less than a thousand dollars, don't take it. They aren't going to do anything with your script if they aren't willing to invest at least some cash in it. But, your script will become ineligible to win prizes in any other contests and will be unmarketable by you for a year or two, by which time you won't be interested in it anymore, either. Don't throw away the earning potential of your script for nothing. $1,000 option allows you to at least recoup your expenses in contest entry fees and copying and mailing expenses.

Jean,

Yeah, I plugged a WWII action/adventure into The Big Aussie. Looks like I didn't make the cut in the big Chesterfield, having heard nothing, yet.

I do believe that contests are a good route for the unproduced, and maybe even for produced writers. But I do think it pays to scrutinize each contest closely to make sure you aren't throwing away your money or tossing your ideas to the wolves. Many contests are totally legitimate and worth the investment, some are legitimate and not worth the investment, some are just plain bad investments, and a few are total ripoffs.

Good luck with your writing.

Actually, quite a few contests meet the 40:1 formula (prize:entry fee). Out of the list of contests with upcoming deadlines (screenplays only, not TV):

Open Door (3000/45) ASA/Writer's Digest (2500/50) Set in Texas (1500/30) WriteMovies (2000/29) Cinestory (2000/50) Winner Take All (5000/40) National (2500/45) Americandreamfactory(3500/50) Screenplay as Lit (5000/25)

Of course, meeting the 40:1 formula doesn't mean one should enter. It still pays to: look at what they say they're seeking; look at titles and descriptions of winning scripts; do they regularly push back deadlines? (like National and Americandreamfactory); what ratings do past participants give them? And, what comments can you get from the Bulletin Board, beyond advice on brads and washers?

If you check out their report cards, you'll see that both FADE IN and WRITERS' NETWORK get pretty lousy grades.

John,

The reason some contests offer the screenwriting software as a prize is that the manufacturers provide it for free, for the promotional value. It's like getting an ad with an endorsement without having to lay out cash. No harm done. Give the free software to your mother so she can make revisions for you. Or sell it on ebay.

Terri,

The best antidote for post-scriptum depression is the next script. Put your first baby up for adoption and get working on the next one. Make use of the energy you're wasting.

And, if you haven't already, read Robert McKee's "Story."

Anyone know anything about or have any experience with this service, which just recently (I believe) started advertising at moviebytes.com?

Bonita,

Tell us how you got your episode there. Did a contest have anything to do with it? What is your contest experience? Have contests helped you at all, directly or indirectly?

And -- CONGRATULATIONS!

Bonita,

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear from a writer for whom the contest business was a career starter.

You can bet we'll all be watching, and it better be damned funny or some of the wannabes on this board will crucify you!

Congrats!

Why not assume the best about a person and, if you have something helpful to offer, post it? If not, wallow in your suspicions privately. It's not like Colleen is asking us to send money. She came to the board for a little friendly advice and instead got an answer from a descendant of the Inquisition!

Note that Colleen wrote, "I'm going to talk about this later with my agent (or the person who will be my agent when/if this deal occurs)...." So, this is a deal in the making, and the agent probably comes with the deal. According to my agent (not a big gun), this is not unusual, especially with the big-time agencies like ICM.

If we lose Colleen to the board, then we all will have lost someone who could share her experiences with us as she goes through the complex and nerve-wracking process of selling a screenplay. So, thanks, Eric. It's so much more edifying to read the paranoid diatribes of a jealous cynic than to share thoughts and experiences with someone who may actually graduate from contest hack to professional screenwriter.

Colleen, if you're still there, don't let a jerk like Eric drive you away. I would answer your question about options and WGA credits if I knew the answer, and so would many others. Please stay on the board and tell us your experiences in the deal-making process as it happens. And don't forget to watch "Girlfriends" on the 19th.

Congratulations, we all hope,

Terry

If placing faith in Colleen's word and showing her some respect is "obsequious," then I'm glad to kneel.

Inviting Colleen to stay on the board and share her deal-making experience with us is self-serving on my part.

Humbly,

Terry

Just reminding everyone -- Bonita Alford's episode of "Girlfriends" airs Monday the 19th at 9:30 pm eastern on UPN. The episode is entitled "Mom's the Word."

Go, girl!

Both.

Plus the practice of getting your screenplays in shape to be read by professionals.

I'm going to email Frederick and ask him to answer the question on the bulletin board.

Bonita,

Absolutely fabulous! I've never watched "Girlfriends" before, but you had me laughing out loud. You write with exceptional wit and a solid sense of each character. Everyone had some play, and the actresses seemed to enjoy performing your script.

The wit of your writing reminds me of the scriptwriting of Kari Lizer. She was an actress in some teen flicks (e.g., "Private School") and a regular on "Matlock," then showed up as Story Editor on "Weird Science," for which she also wrote some great, very witty scripts. She also wrote for "Will and Grace" and "Boston Common," then became Executive Producer and writer for "Maggie Winters," a sit-com she created. I have a feeling you are at the start of a similar career. If Kelsey doesn't hire you again, someone else will.

Two particular boardpests are probably gonna log on and accuse me of kissing your ass, but I have no interest in writing for TV. I like wallowing in the demented worlds of my own characters in my own stories. So, be advised -- this writer is impressed.

Keep writing,

Terry

Tom,

A lot depends on the nature of your script. Different contests are looking for different kinds of scripts.

You need to do some research:

Read the contest descriptions

Look at the contest organizations (e.g., small production companies are not going to give the win to big budget flicks; Slamdance likes strange stuff)

Check out the descriptions of winners in Winning Scripts (accessible from this website)

Look at the score cards (on this website)

Then put your script and your money where you believe you have the best chances to win.

A legitimate agent doesn't ask the writer for money. Administrative fees are the cost of his/her doing business. WGA regs don't permit agents to require fees. This is one reason I find the 'script rep' contests suspicious. They are collecting fees for reading scripts and getting around the regs by calling it a contest. It just ain't right.

On the second day of Christmas my true love gave to me, two latex gloves.

Sorry, Ashley and Xmas Ghosts, my line should have read:

On the second day of Christmas my true love gave to me, two latex gloves, and a hang-ov-er with the dry heaves.

On the nineth day of Christmas my true love gave to me: nine re-jec-tion letters, eight itchy crab bugs, seven strippers dancing, six agent meetings, f-i-v-e boil_er_m'kers__, four L.A. Tickets, three fine lines, two Latex gloves, and a hang ov-er with the dry heaves.

LEGITIMATE agents do not charge expenses to their writers.

That would be Dec 36th, Grover, unless Christmas Day doesn't count.

Don't the 12 days of Christmas actually start on the 14th and end on Christmas Day?

I'll be watching for "Good Cook, Likes Music" in 2002/2003. If you're still logging in, please share your professional writer experience with us. What happens after the sale? Will you be involved in any way in producing the film? Are they having someone else do a rewrite or asking you to do one? Are you suddenly a hot commodity? Is the IRS knocking on your door? Is your husband jealous? Do you have any advice?

Again, congratulations!

Lynette,

David is right on. 1st P -- a logline. 2nd P -- elaboration, focussing on outstanding features of the story and main characters. You don't have time or space for detail. 3rd P -- keep it short, including only aspects relevant to writing.

Continuing what Sondra started:

You wrote: "Nine-year old Alisha Ritchie’s whole world revolves around art, friends, and most importantly, getting on her older sister Darlene’s nerves. She comes from a tight knit family, headed by a strong, hardworking father, and a warm-spirited, gentle mother. Alisha and her two elder siblings innocent world soon changes as they deal with teen pregnancy, drugs, colorism, and a disease that threatens one of their lives. Can the Ritchie’s maintain their strong family unit in spite of all the issues they’re forced to deal with? FAMILY VALUES is a simple, yet engaging drama about an African-American family in the early 1980’s who struggle to maintain their strong bond despite the many adversities that try to test and destroy them."

No comma after "father." Apostrophe after "siblings." No apostrophe in "the Ritchies." I would add, "Nine-year old" should be "Nine-year-old" and "1980's" should be "1980s." I would delete "most importantly."

Sondra says, "I also wouldn't characterize my own work as 'engaging.' The reader should be the one to make the judgment, and 'engaging' isn't a strong enough compliment in a highly competitive market." I agree with Sondra entirely. Do not make judgments about the quality of your work. "FAMILY VALUES is a simple drama...." In your letter, you should also italicize or underline the title rather than put it in all caps.

I hope this is helping.

Continuing what Sondra started:

You wrote: "Nine-year old Alisha Ritchie’s whole world revolves around art, friends, and most importantly, getting on her older sister Darlene’s nerves. She comes from a tight knit family, headed by a strong, hardworking father, and a warm-spirited, gentle mother. Alisha and her two elder siblings innocent world soon changes as they deal with teen pregnancy, drugs, colorism, and a disease that threatens one of their lives. Can the Ritchie’s maintain their strong family unit in spite of all the issues they’re forced to deal with? FAMILY VALUES is a simple, yet engaging drama about an African-American family in the early 1980’s who struggle to maintain their strong bond despite the many adversities that try to test and destroy them."

No comma after "father." Apostrophe after "siblings." No apostrophe in "the Ritchies." I would add, "Nine-year old" should be "Nine-year-old" and "1980's" should be "1980s." I would delete "most importantly."

Sondra says, "I also wouldn't characterize my own work as 'engaging.' The reader should be the one to make the judgment, and 'engaging' isn't a strong enough compliment in a highly competitive market." I agree with Sondra entirely. Do not make judgments about the quality of your work. "FAMILY VALUES is a simple drama...." In your letter, you should also italicize or underline the title rather than put it in all caps.

I hope this is helping.

My apologies for the double posting. I hate when that happens!

Sorry, folks. I taught English for 20 years. I notice everybody's errors (except my own, of course).

I meant the second Ritchies -- "Can the Ritchie's maintain" should be "Ritchies."

Congratulations, Paula! Yet one more kudo to add to your impressive array of contest win-place-shows.

Terry

I posted several messages since Saturday and they were anything but witty, literate, and insightful. Thank God for technical woes!

Terry

I believe that she shoots the mundane shots that the director and the 1st assistant director don't want to bother with. She may also be called on to shoot the life-endangering shots that the director and 1st assistant director are too smart to shoot themselves.

If the 2nd 2nd A.D. is handling all those extras, who fetches coffee for the banished screenwriter hanging around just outside the security perimeter?

Bryan,

You won't find my resume on the IMDb, but I did get to witness the shooting of the tractor-in-the-field scene with Robert Duvall and Randy Quaid in "Days of Thunder." At least I think it was Duvall and Quaid; they were so far away it was hard to tell, really.

On that same shoot, I got to meet Tom Cruise, one on one, in the freezing cold outside his trailer. He shook my hand, talked with me for several minutes, then kissed my cheek and went off to do his nasty scene with Kidman in the raceway infirmary. While he was walking to the infirmary, I heard him think to himself, "Who the **** was that? More importantly, why the hell did I kiss him?"

Terry

Can anyone direct me to some samples of really good synopses? Preferably accessible via the internet.

Terry

Didi,

I checked out www.wordplayer.com and found some useful tips, though very little specifically about synopses (except to avoid them).

If you know of any other excellent non-commercial screenwriting websites, please pass them along.

Thanks for the lead,

Terry

Eric Edson, Exec Dir of The Hollywood Symposium, offers some succinct and forceful screenwriting advice in "Some Thoughts about Story Content..." posted under Moviebytes Headlines. Note that he suggests reading or rereading Robert McKee's "Story." Some writers might balk at his emphasis on story, expressed with a tone of urgency, but every point in the column echoes comments and questions I've gotten from industry-level readers of my scripts.

I made a copy to serve as a reminder, a kind of story point cheat sheet.

Terry

I don't think either Edson or McKee mean their emphasis on story to be "rules." I think they're telling us what wins, what sells, and what sets the winners and sellers apart from most other scripts, scripts which might be excellent in most regards but lack story momentum, lack a sense of rising stakes, etc.

Ron,

I've had only one contact, and that was from a company I didn't care to work with.

I read your story description on WinningScripts. Sounds like a very promising premise. It also sounds to me like the kind of story Hollywood loves, and it wouldn't be too expensive to make. Despite your success in getting a "hit," you might want to rethink your description. You list the screenplay as a romantic comedy, but there's no suggestion of any romantic connection in the description. If romance isn't central to the story, you might want to change the genre to simply comedy.

Just a suggestion. Good luck with your contact.

Terry

Surprise, surprise.

Grover,

In response to your earlier post about providing multiple copies of your script to an agent:

In my opinion, there are no hard and fast rules, except that you don't send money to a legitimate agent (except, of course, a commission, we all hope). When it comes to the rest, such as providing copies, I'd say go with your instinct. I provide two copies -- one for immediate use, the other for making copies. I also print every copy myself, but that's a personal choice, and not very cost-effective. But, if a major player I had faith in said, "Send me five copies," I'd make sure I had a spare ink cartridge and two reams of three-hole.

Terry

Hey, guys and gals,

Could we all quit all this squabbling and get back to the art and business of screenwriting? My Gawd, we sound like cyber-Jerry Springer guests! (I include myself, here.) Let's quit wasting these valuable resources -- this website and each other -- and start sharing ideas and experiences. Let's help each other to succeed.

Terry

I second Grover's comment.

"Matlock" is a good example of a show which violates professional realism in every episode. It may bother lawyers, but then, who cares?

Like Bob wrote, set up the premise and stick to it. You'll be fine.

One exception -- if you write about some aspect of the filmmaking business, you'll probably get ripped to shreds for every detail, unless you really know your stuff.

Bob,

I think Steven was trying to keep the other string (the challenge) from the top of the topic list.

Judy,

Managers DO NOT get paid an upfront fee. They work for commissions, just like agents. A manager's fee for the first year can be 15%, but should drop to 10% after a year, if it didn't start there. Generally, an agent represents scripts, a manager tries to find you work and offers guidance about what you should be writing and doing. I'm sure others will have more enlightened opinions on this, but that was my experience.

Steven,

You can get help on this bulletin board, usually, by asking a specific question.

Terry

Mitch,

Welcome to the board. Or, should I say, family.

Terry

I just received the following email:

THE BIG AUSTRALIAN: Year 2001 1071 entries were received for THE BIG AUSTRALIAN 2001. The Grand Final winner shall be announced 1 January 2002. In the interim we announce the following quarterfinalists; semifinalists and finalists shall be announced in the week leading up to that date.

The quarterfinalists for 2001 are: 1. WAR by Barbara Marshall 2. GGGGGAZILLIONAIRE! by John Fordham 3. PROMISES TO KEEP by Gavin Sanders 4. GO HOME, DAVE! by Sarah E. Bewley 5. FORGOTTEN HOPE by Damon O'Steen 6. RUNNING OUT OF ROPE by Michelle Cooper 7. TOUGH CALLS by Dan Crawford 8. RUNDOWN by Suzette Anderson 9. SERIAL TWIN by Clayton Surratt 10. SOAP OPERA LOOKS by Jo Anne Hicks 11. FROM THIS MOMENT ON by Linda Halawitt 12. HALF WAY MARK by Daryl Giles 13. TIGHT END by Peter Thomas 14. COMBAT SAFARI LTD by Max Frobe and Virginia Frobe 15. LUDLOW by Craig Horning 16. PATHFINDER by Duncan Danvers 17. CRYING FOUL by Xavier Hollis 18. KNOWING WINK by Chris Ryan 19. KAFFIR BOY by Craig H. Shepherd 20. THE CENCI FORTUNE by Barbara Ellis 21. RICKY'S GIRL by David Steinhoff 22. THE HARD YARDS by Corey Baker 23. SILVER BULLET by Matt T. Bailey 24. A LITTLE DONKEY byAnnette Healy 25. FACE VALUE by Yvonne Passmore 26. FRESHMAN YEAR SUCKS! by Rob Nash 27. TEXAS BLUE by Eileen Connors 28. LUTWAFFE by James T. Frazier 29. MR. BARREN'S PRIDE by Barbara B. Meyer 30. ILLUSTRATED MURDER by Shelley R. Sorensen 31. MOM ON TOP by Steve Weslake 32. MONKEY ZOO by Daniel B. Franklin 33. DOG IN THE HALL by Casey Wyatt 34. MAID OF HONOR by Tonya Kong 35. TOAST by Amy Neswald 36. SLIM PICKINGS by Suzette Anderson 37. TYPE X by Dick Meyer 38. FULCRUM by Cary Ellis 39. GODFOR by Cameron Peters 40. FAMILY JEWELS by Chris Taylor

'Scuse me, that topic should read "Quarterfinalists."

My money's on Babs. "War" has been raking in the kudos, and this could be her big money win.

Mitch,

How could you tell from Ashley's "bio" that she frequents fast-food places?

BTW, the comma goes inside the quotation marks. Example -- I read "Towering Genius," your short, self-published autobiography.

Terry

I haven't seen it, yet, but my brother loved it. He's a fantasy buff, a commercial artist who painted many of the "Magic: The Gathering" cards (made a fortune!) and has been a Tolkien fan all his literate life. He saw it at midnight the first night, then went back again to see it the next night. He thinks it's the best film he's ever seen.

On the other hand, his wife fell asleep in the theater.

Terry

Congratulations, Bob. You make your boardbuds proud.

Terry

May we all find that special mistletoe that magically seals a screenplay sale with a kiss.

And, Babs, I hope you get some good news from The Big Aussie next week. Wouldn't THAT be a great Christmas present?

Terry

Frederick,

Thanks again for providing such a great resource to aspiring screenwriters. Here's hoping for 20 new Moviebytes sponsors in 2002 and a Happy Holiday Season for you and your family.

Terry

Speaking of DVDs, have you noticed that the "widescreen" versions crop not only from the sides (though less than videos) but also from the top and bottom? They don't really give you the original screen image, they crop 15 or 20% from the top and bottom to make you feel like you're seeing the theatrical version. Compare your DVD version of a movie with the video or the broadcast version.

Is this common knowledge?

Two winners. Both get $10,000 and trips for two to Australia and Hollywood. That's impressive. Eight other finalists get $1,000 each, plus goodies. I'd like to see other contests emulate The Big Aussie and put their bucks where their promises are.

Francine,

That is an excellent idea. I'm going to join you on that. But, I'm going to leave out the first question (I've been living on borrowed time for 34 years, so I'm thankful just to be alive), and add this one: "What did I write today?" 'Cause I don't want to answer, "Nothing." Twice.

Terry

I had a manager, with a contract, and I have an agent, with no contract.

Josh,

If you search the contests on this website, I believe you'll find a few which are designed for young writers only.

Terry

Knowing someone can get your screenplay read, but it doesn't get it bought.

[Name withheld, unless you look above the text]

"Just goes to show that it's as much as WHO you know more than talent in this town, when you're looking for success..."

This doesn't strike you as belittling? It also reveals that the writer (whether it's T. Turk or someone T. Turk was quoting) wants to "be a writer" but can't construct a sentence; hence, the sour grapes.

Kevin,

Remember Field Day in school?

Blue ribbon = 1st place (fellow)

Red Ribbon = 2nd place (finalist)

White ribbon = 3rd place (semifinalist)

I think her comment meant she was happy to have even made the semifinals; that's recognition for a job well done, just not, in the eyes of the judges, the best done. And I agree. Especially in Chesterfield, Disney, and Nicholl.

Kevin,

I'm not arguing with you. I was just pointing out that describing the letter she received as "white ribbon" already indicated that she wasn't a winner. Therefore, when you followed with "acceptance letter," she thought you were being a smartass, and there's certainly no shortage of that on this board. It's all been an unfortunate misunderstanding.

Since you're not publishing the material, you don't need to worry about it. Put the quoted material in quotation marks, make it clear that you are quoting [Mark holds up Bentham's translation of Doogie's "Philosophe" and reads], then let the lawyers deal with the rights to the material when it comes time to produce the film. The producers will probably have you just cut it, anyway.

I think Hollywood is most hungry for great new stories, and a great story is the best way to showcase your talent, regardless of the commercial potential.

I Seeee,

Do you also post as T. Turk? I clicked on "see all messages by this author" and got a few by T. Turk. Did you post the following?

"November 27, 2001... 'Colleen Ventimilia is not a Hollywood outsider who just lucked out with her first script.

Her husband is Jeffrey Ventimilia, executive producer for 'That 70s Show', and who has previously worked on 'Murphy Brown' and 'The Simpsons', along with a movie project whose name I can't remember, but which is about cloning Christ using blood from the Shroud of Turin.

Just goes to show that it's as much as WHO you know more than talent in this town, when you're looking for success...'

[Named withheld, but we wanted to let you know the score.]"

Terry

James,

Good work! I can't wait to read what D. Jay has to say to being exposed for a fraud.

I Seeeeee,

I don't object to anyone posting anonymously. That's an option made available on this board and you are free to do that. You're also free to change your anonymous identity from T. Turk to I Seeeeee, but it certainly makes me wonder why, especially as I have some issues with your post about Colleen. I'd like for you to answer just two questions, if you would be so kind:

1. In your post on Colleen, you put the text in quotation marks. Were you quoting from a source, and, if so, what was that source? Or was this just your way of making it look like you had a source?

2. Are you Craig Schwartz? Note:

You and Craig both brag about being "in the know."

Craig has his oft-cited brother who fills him in on the insider tuff; you have your Junior Execs.

You both claim to be readers for contests and/or prodcos.

Neither of you has posted a profile.

Both of you seem to have it in for Colleen.

One difference -- you don't claim to be a writer, Craig does (and HE has representation).

Terry Frazier Littleton, Colorado, USA Profile posted Winning scripts listed Email address available

I Seeeee,

Thanks for that straight-up answer.

Terry

Titles can't be copyrighted. According to the IMDb, there are no fewer than six movies titled "Titanic." I have been told that the only title considered under copyright by the LOC is "Gone with the Wind."

This doesn't mean there won't be legal issues, but you let the producer worry about that. You won't violate copyright by using someone else's title. Producers often change the title, anyway, primarily for marketing reasons.

I'm glad to learn that knowing someone powerful in Hollywood will help a writer succeed. I doubt that this had occurred to any of us before those "in the know" shared that illuminating insight. However, I have a gut feeling that Hollywood is more hungry for great stories than great schmoozers, so I'm gonna stick with my plan to try to write a great story. If it works, that'll be wonderful; if it doesn't, I'll have been doing what I love to do anyway.

Terry Frazier (and that's my real name and the only identity under which I post because I'm not ashamed of who I am or what I write and I'll take the heat for my own idiocy)

Craig,

You state: "NO, I don't have representation -- but then, I don't seek it."

Sorry. I thought it was you that posted the following comment on 1/10/02 on the topic of "The GOALS of 2002":

"It is all about one thing: getting an agent. I believe that, always have believed that, always will believe that. A good agent, a good agency....

"However, aiming for 'garnering a good agent at good agency,' augurs well all the time. Example: I have succeeded in snagging a good agent at a good agency."

I guess I just misunderstood you. I thought you were actually claiming to have an agent. But, now I realize that you don't have an agent and aren't seeking one, even though "It is all about one thing: getting an agent." My bad. I'm confused, but I stand corrected.

On being "in the know," you wrote:

"YES, I have a brother who is 'in the know,' but you can define that many ways. I tell you how I define it: he and I are 'in the know' about how the game works, not about specific facts and deals going on at any given time. We are 'in the know' because we see what everyone else sees, and distill the information."

Well, I am truly humbled! I now know that I am among the legion of blind moron screenwriting wannabes who can't "distill the information" and need you to inform us that having connections in the business can help a writer get his/her scripts read.

"You can be 'in the know' too."

Not without your help, I fear. BTW, the "too" should be preceded by a comma -- in the know, too. If you don't believe me, check your Chicago Manual of Style (or your freshman English handbook).

"More about me:

"I feature in a major motion-picture -- Being John Malkovich."

Well, what role? Tell us. I sincerely think that's pretty exciting.

"I don't have it in for Colleen. I just am mystified why so many want to lick boot -- but hey, what you do is your business."

So, if I object to you and Eric ragging on Colleen out of sheer cynicism, I'm a "slavering mendicant," as you put it, if memory serves. Your posts were so objectionable to her that she quit the Board and hasn't returned, but, no, you didn't have it in for her.

"I don't brag."

I think your own post supports you in that:

"I am sure if any of you were to meet me, you would find me most pleasant and congenial and supportive and kind and encouraging. Every writer who has ever met me has thought this. So have some non-writers!

"I got [this writing assignment] purely through my personality. No, I do not brag, I state a fact. How do I know this?

"Because the person who gave me the assignment didn't really think much of the sample script I gave him. But I was there at the right time; had good ideas; am very, very easy to work with; and we get along like friends.

"Hey -- he LOVES what I'm writing now.

"--Oh no, I brag again, don't I?

"If anything, I am Socrates, and I only know that I know nothing -- which makes me the smartest one of all.

--Bragging again!"

Well said.

"Posting a profile simply didn't register on my radar."

Yeah, profiles never get mentioned on the Board. And you've never bothered to look at Ashley's, have you?

"Oh, one last thing: I am not ISEE, ISEE is not me.

"So there."

Congratulations to I Seeee, aka T. Turk.

Well, Craigypooh, here I am sinking to a pathetic attempt at character assassination. (Does "assassination" have four S's?) You're probably a very nice guy and a good writer. You're logging onto this Board for some comraderie, to share witticisms, to exchange information, to offer insights. And here I am slamming you without provocation. So, I apologize to you, to Frederick, and to everyone else here, and I'm gonna retire from this Board until I can regain my composure, refocus my writing efforts on my scripts instead of on your personality, and contribute to the correspondence on this Board in a constructive way and in a positive tone.

Terry

Should be "camaraderie."

Sorry,

Terry

Steven,

You might want to check out Spec Script Marketplace's "Pitch Sessions." The next one is scheduled for May 2nd. Cost=$109. To find out more, email Eva Peel at

evapeel@earthlink.net

Terry

Marcel,

You might wanna submit your "Native" script to Sundance; they've supported production of a number of scripts out of the mainstream.

I'm feeling totally overwhelmed. Mom died in January. I sold the house and moved in April. Meanwhile, I'm trying to do a big rewrite on "Rochester," revise a TV series proposal, and write a one-hour docudrama for a yet-to-be-funded PBS series. Everyone wants everything NOW, so it makes it hard to work on anything. I work more now than when I had a job!

Miriam,

Congratulations! Show us the way, girl!

Terry

I've paid twice for script coverage. It was a complete waste both times. One was a professional reader for a studio and she panned my screenplay "Rochester," which won two competitions and has been optioned twice. That coverage cost me $150 two years ago.

Most coverage does not instuct you in how to revise the screenplay. It just tells you which parts suck and which parts don't.

I believe your money would be better spent buying Final Draft, Robert McKee's "Story," and a couple of screenplays in the genre you intend to use.

Just offering my humble opinion, for the first time in months.

Terry

In my opinion, McKee's "Story" is the best book available to screenwriters. It's somewhat academic, compared to other screenwriting texts, but it's brilliant, and a must-read before your first revision. As far as his seminar goes, I have no idea how good or useful it is. I would guess that it's more important for inspiring participants to go home and write than for delivering specific info about how to write.

Terry

I keep getting these emails from Jerrol claiming an unbelievable number of sales via his website. Are those numbers real? Does anyone know for sure? I know that lots of you have had your loglines and synopses read, but do you know anyone who has made a sale?

Terry

Way to go, girl! We're all proud of you and hoping that this success leads you up the ladder. But don't ditch us wannabes!

Terry

I'm a Vietnam vet. After eight months in combat with the 101st Airborne, I lost both legs to an enemy mortar near Chu Lai in 1967. I saw some guys mutilated, some guys die. It's really ugly.

I believe the war in Iraq is being fought for oil, not ideals.

How many Iraqi soldiers died in defense of their homeland? Were they all evil because they opposed us on their home soil? How many thousands of Iraqi soldiers were shot, blasted, and/or burned to death? How many were left without limbs, sight, or hearing? How many widows and orphans did this war create?

Certainly, SH was a brutal and evil dictator, but was war the best or only approach? If killing SH was really the objective, why didn't they just assassinate him rather than kill thousands of Iraqis (and fail to achieve the purported objective)?

Terry

I like the embedded notes feature on Final Draft. Readers can comment on specific points in your script without actually changing it. The notes are marked by flags which you simply click to read. You can also make notes to yourself. And you can print reports about various features of your screenplay.

On the other hand, I've never used any other screenwriting program.

Terry

Here's how I'd tweak the logline:

A man, accused of murdering his girlfriend, must prove his innocence, but he learns that most of the evidence leads to a serial killer who died ten years ago.

Or:

A man, accused of murdering his girlfriend, must prove his innocence, but he learns that most of the evidence leads to a serial killer who was executed ten years earlier.

Or "died in jail," or whatever.

Use "but" instead of "when," and be brief but specific about how the serial killer died. If you say he was executed, it suggests that the police knew he was a serial killer when he died, whereas your original version leaves open the possibility that your protag discovered that the killer was a serial killer and died. Either situation creates serious complications for your protagonist.

Why always avoid the word "but" in a logline? That's a new one to me. I'd like to know because I have more trouble with loglines than any other part of my writing.

I like the one Earl came up with:

Accused of the brutal murder of his girlfriend, an innocent man follows the clues in a search for the real killer, but there's just one problem... all the clues point to a serial killer who's been dead for ten years... or is he?

(Except, I'd replace the first elipsis with a dash.)

It offers some intriguing details (e.g., "brutal murder") and suggests the direction of the story (average guy? plays detective to prove his innocence -- very Hitchcockian).

Terri,

Those are excellent points and good examples.

On-the-nose and above-the-nose can also be used to distinguish between characters. One character always says exactly what he/she means, the other character always says things indirectly or symbolically or with sarcasm. Such distinctions can suggest differences in intellect, or differences in honesty, etc.

Also look for opportunities to substitute action for dialogue. E.g., at breakfast, a wife who's angry at her husband doesn't say it; when his perfect toast pops up, she doesn't remove the toast, she pushes the lever back down.

An excellent example of dialogue without words is "Ordinary People" (1980, Robert Redford), starring Mary Tyler Moore and Donald Sutherland. The family, especially the mother, specializes in cruelty without words.

A fun study in character transformation is "Working Girl" (1988, Mike Nichols) with Harrison Ford and Melanie Griffith. As Tess McGill undergoes a transformation, her hair changes, her makeup changes, her dress changes, her language changes, her self-image changes, her posture and carriage change. Similarly, the background music changes; the film employs about a dozen variations on "Let the River Run," an Oscar-winning song by Carly Simon. I love the scene where Jack Trainer has carried her up to his apartment and placed her gently in a chair. He is so unwilling to give up on this night of love with a fabulously beautiful woman that he continues talking to her as though she's conscious. And, unlike most male characters in that situation, he doesn't lift her skirt for a peek, he pulls it down to protect her modesty.

I also like observing the transformation of Lester Burnham (Kevin Spacey's character) in "American Beauty" (1999, Sam Mendes).

WAB does list some screenwriting contests that don't get posted on moviebytes. Screenwriting contests associated with film festivals get listed on WAB, if they pay the fee.

WAB facilitates submission via the internet in many cases, but the acceptable formats vary with the contests. A few allow you to register through WAB but still require a hard copy. The main advantage of WAB, it seems to me, is the streamlining of the submission process; most contests can be entered in a matter of a couple of minutes. (I am not associated with WAB except as a writer who uses their services.)

Anyone know why the Nicholl didn't get announced on moviebytes this year?

I hate to be a sceptic here, but I'd wager that they expect you to write this on spec. If they were willing to pay you, they'd have mentioned an amount. I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt they'll even send you a coupon for a free Quarter Pounder with Cheese, even after you've written it. My rule of thumb -- I don't write other people's ideas on spec. (Maybe that's why I've never been paid for screenwriting except some contest winnings and options.) If you write their idea on spec, expect exactly what you'd get from a no-fee option -- nothing, zip, nada.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that they offer you at least $12,500 up front. Please let us know how this plays out. Much of our wisdom in this business is anecdotal, and your experience may prove useful to others facing similar offers.

Randy,

It sounds like the door has opened for you! Good onya, mate!

My comments were based on my own experience. I've had a couple of offers from so-called prodcos to script their ideas, but even when money was promised no check materialized. Fortunately, I didn't begin the work without the promised payment.

You may choose not to share certain details of your deal, but let us know about the process.

Like I said in my first post, sounds like a spec script. If there's no money up front, what you got is a whole lotta nuthin'. Talk is zip. They're talking about letting you direct. And that's based on what? Did you direct a short which won a prize at the Toronto Film Festival? They could be talking about letting your cousin play the female lead. So what? Until they make an investment in you, it's all talk, and you know the cliche, which in this case is a caveat -- "Talk is cheap."

I'd rather write a for-hire script for $5,000 total compensation and be able to advertise myself as a "produced screenwriter" than script someone else's story on spec in hopes of getting 3% of maybe-they'll-actually-make-the-film. But that's just me. And I'm a cynic.

A legal point. If you write their story on spec, will you own the copyright free and clear? What if they turn it down then you sell it to Universal for a million? Can they then sue you claiming, with abundant written proof, that your screenplay was "based on their story"? If you don't have the rights to the story, you can't sell the screenplay.

I think wading into quicksand. Substitute common sense for greed and take the writer-for-hire deal. Being a "produced screenwriter" will be money in the bank. And if the only way they'll go is the spec deal, tell them to take a hike.

By the way, if you don't own the rights to the story, you can't even enter the screenplay into contests. It becomes nothing but a writing sample.

Terri,

I see what you're saying. And, personally, I'd rather never have a script of mine made into a movie than have one made into a piece of crap.

In the case at hand, however, I'm just concerned that Randy's going to get sucked into a deal where he does months of work and gets nothing for it, not even the right to shop his own script (if you don't own the story, you don't own the script). For all he knows, they could be saying the same thing to another hungry, vulnerable, unproduced writer. Or, circumstances could change in the next three months and, suddenly, "Our backing has shifted to another project. If you write something else, give us first look 'cause we really like your style and enthusiasm. But, for now, we've had to put all our resources into this 3-D slasher remake. Sorry, kid, but that's Hollywood." CLICK.

I say, whether it's a writing job or an option, if they don't put money up front, they're not serious. If they're serious, they'll put some skin in the game.

Last year, I was offered 12,500 Euros to write a screenplay for a filmmaker (with a major film credit, by the way), another 12,500 to be paid when filming started. I said, "Sure!" I invested about $100 in books on the subject while waiting for the money to arrive. No money ever arrived. It was just routine prodco hoohah. Now, the books sit on a shelf at the local high school. You live and learn. At least I got a tax break for the donation.

Randy,

Okay, I believe you. Congratulations on the shorts! I think that's a great way to break in. It sounds like you have done a lot of preparation for this moment, so please ignore my posts and do what your instincts and your attorney tell you.

BUT, since you posted here, you have a moral, ethical, and legal obligation to keep us apprised of developments. If you fail in this solemn task, Terri and I will find a neutral location to get together and we will write, sell, produce, direct, and market a substandard horror flick about a budding screenwriter named Randy who is tormented by purple ogres and scrophulous transexual whores.

You've been warned! Now, go make your movie.

I'm so embarrassed! I misspelled "scrofulous."

Applictions for the Disney Fellowships must be postmarked by 6/23 and require a resume, and the application must be notarized. There is no fee to apply for this program, but the competition is stiff, and I don't mean "dead" like my dialogue.

"Scrofulous" means "having a diseased appearance," especially in a horribly ugly, scabby way or characterized by hideous and grotesque swelling. "Scrofulous" was a popular term in Restoration and 18th-century England, but is still in use by pedants, geezers, pariahs, and period writers (I'm at least three of the four). But I think that, without even knowing the definition, people know that they don't want to be described as "scrofulous."

Try this experiment: when you go to bed tonight, say to your lover, "Oh, honey, you look really scrofulous tonight!" Report the results right here directly from your hospital bed or lawyer's office.

Randy,

Synopses.

Be sure to copyright or register your treatments before you share them with the prodco.

Pursue this project with your eyes open. Notice that the budget has already been whittled from $1-$2,000,000 down to $500,000, and that's in just a couple of days. Watch for further erosion of money or promises over the next few months. You gotta go with your instincts, but that doesn't mean you have to wear blinders. Save blind faith for the surgeon who goes after a brain tumor.

And don't forget about the purple ogres!

Yeah, what Joan said!

Also, about "lazy" words -- is, are, were, was. Whenever possible, use verbs which convey action and meaning. Is, are, was, and were simply connect one half of a sentence to the other, but add nothing to the meaning and leave out the opportunity to include action. Action verbs can also lead to more detail.

Her car was a candy apple red old Chevy which was the envy of everyone in town.

Versus

She sashayed through town in her candy apple red '57 Chevy, with the top down. The old men in front of the barbershop stared at the brash young beauty like she was parading around topless, and the football team wished that they were climbing into her promiscuous backseat rather than the smelly vinyl benches of the ugly yellow school bus.

No, Z, it wasn't a joke. The examples are a joke, but they're meant to illustrate the difference between using linking verbs and action verbs. I wouldn't use overheated decription like that in my writing, but I do revise to get rid of linking verbs where action verbs can add life or meaning. And it was a response to Terri's remark that "but" is a dead word. I think that linking verbs are dead.

Terri,

Sorry, dear -- "but" is a "lazy" word. I stand corrected and chastised. If I had a cat-o-nine tails, I'd flail myself, but I'm a real sissy when it comes to pain, so I don't keep one around the house. (A dominatrix friend of mine employs a wide variety of such devices and I will beg her to severely punish one of her submissives for my lapse in accuracy. Terri, I can assure you that your complaint will draw innocent blood. What could be better than that?)

I never heard that before about the word "but" being lazy, but it prompted a lot of thought. Since I do a lot of editing, I have to do a lot of rewriting, but I'm always watching for useful tips. I looked over some of my own writing and found that I use the word "but" too often. I'm going to have to make sure I'm not using "but" as a crutch. I do try to avoid using "but" twice in the same paragraph, but now I'll be looking for ways to avoid using "but" at all. (Smiley Face here)

I used to be the managing editor of a small press. We received manuscripts daily from writers desperate to get published. I noticed that dead verbs characterized the most amateurish writing. Freshman Composition essays suffer from the same lifelessness. Getting students to pay attention to their verbs improved their writing dramatically. Using action verbs doesn't just add life to a sentence, it also provides an opportunity to express meaning or nuance. For those of you who already know this, more power to you. For those who never had a teacher or reader who addressed this, maybe this writing tip will be helpful. Maybe not. It's humbly offered in the spirit of camaraderie which I hope characterizes this BB.

Terri,

I'd be happy to send you a copy of Rochester, if you'd care to read it. Do you have Final Draft?

What did you think about my idea for Mary Bennett (Pride & Prejudice)? We know that Kitty will find a beau and that Lydia will burn her candle like a flamethrower at both ends and end up whoring outside a Paris dancehall before she's thirty, but I worry that Mary will die alone and neglected, a Miss Bates (Emma) with half the social skills. I want Mary to open her eyes to love and the world around her. Jane Austen would probably blow chunks at my sentimentality. I just did! I can hardly live with myself I'm so disgusted. I can cry at a commercial for an oil filter. I weeped out an idea for a sappy script entitled "Tears on Ivory" which I'll bet would get a quadrillion more producer hits on InkTip than my sci-fi horror script. Whine and tears versus blood and fears. In fact, that last sentence brings tears to my eyes. I don't need to peel onions, I just need to type on my keyboard. Did I tell you that I swapped my car for one that runs on methane? I just cram my old scripts into the tank and I'm good to go. I have to store my scripts in a room with outside ventilation or else my body will be carried out of here by a crew in hazmat suits. At least I don't have to worry about vampires.

Re: ScriptShark Insider Contest

Let me say up front that I am not criticizing this contest or suggesting that anyone shouldn't enter it. It's probably an excellent contest and may lead to a sale or representation for the winner or even for finalists.

However, be sure to read thoroughly the reams of legal language to which you must agree in order to enter. What bothers me is the "exclusivity period" and ill-defined "Acquisition Option" (I can find this only on the WAB enrollment forms). I have trouble figuring out exactly what is meant by all that legalese. The part that I think warrants a special warning is that winning this contest, or maybe even just making finalist in it, may disqualify the writer for some other important contests in perpetuity. (Some contests don't accept entries from a writer who has won a first-look option in a contest, and this sounds like a first-look option to me.) I don't know this for sure, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just saying, "Read the fine print very carefully before you enter."

Here, for anyone interested, are two parts of that agreement:

3. Submission/Review Ownership; License to ScriptShark Insider. At all times during the Contest Period, as between you and ScriptShark Insider, you will retain ownership of whatever interest in the Submission's copyright you owned prior to becoming a Contestant; provided that you hereby grant to Contest Providers the sole and exclusive option to acquire all right, title and interest in and to the Submission throughout the universe and in perpetuity (the Acquisition Option"). The Acquisition Option shall be exercised, if at all, within three hundred sixty five (365) days after the expiration of the Contest Period (the "Exclusivity Period") upon payment in an amount equal to the Screenplay Grand Prize for any Screenplay Submission, and separate from and independent of the Acquisition Option, you further grant us a worldwide, exclusive, royalty-free license to use the Submission during the Exclusivity Period in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and any other written agreements you sign in connection with the Contest (collectively, the "Other Agreements"). You also grant ScriptShark Insider a worldwide, exclusive, royalty-free license to use any other material and information submitted by you in the course of registration or otherwise (collectively the "Material") in accordance with the terms of this Agreement and the Other Agreements. Without limiting the foregoing, you hereby grant ScriptShark Insider the right throughout the Exclusivity Period to do any of the following with respect to your Submission in any and all media now known or hereafter devised, all without any payment to you or to any other person or entity:

[Parts deleted]

7. Further Agreements. If you or your Writing Team advance beyond the initial round of the Contest, or if you are or your Writing Team is selected as one of the Contest winner(s), then as a condition of participating further in the Contest, you may be required to execute certain additional agreements that will govern your continued participation in the Contest, including, without limitation, agreements relating to ScriptShark Insider’s additional use of your Submission and Material; if you are selected, you will have the opportunity to review such agreements and either accept or reject them, with the understanding that you must accept the agreements in order to continue your participation in and eligibility for the Contest.

[End of quoted rules]

"throughout the universe"? Are their lawyers protecting ScriptShark from infringement by extraterrestrials?

I was going to enter this contest, but the aggressive legalese made feel that I should hire a lawyer just to make sure that I wasn't contracting to drive fuel trucks in Iraq or to sell my firstborn son into slavery.

I say, if the feedback rings true, make the changes.

Be sure to read the feedback with a critical eye. I've had feedback which didn't convince me that they'd even read the screenplay! And if it's checkmarks in boxes, it's worthless, in my opinion.

If the feedback "rings true," you'll know it immediately. Then, give some thought to how to make the changes required. Don't just jump at the first idea, think through a range of possibilities. Push the envelope. Look for what will surprise but will remain true to the character. Once you've decided what will work best, do it! Make the changes.

The best, most detailed, most thoughtful, most useful feedback I've gotten was from A Feeding Frenzy.

The Screenwriter's Bible by David Trottier is a standard resource for formatting questions.

Do you mean James Shavick of Shavick Entertainment? He's been executive producer on dozens of films. Shavick Entertainment, which I believe is based in Vancouver, has a website (under construction) which lists an email address. Here's the website:

http://www.shavickentertainment.com

Terry

You could also try Regent Entertainment Group. James Shavick and Stanton Kamens were executive producers on Secret Lives. Maybe Regent would forward a letter:

REGENT OFFICES 10990 Wilshire Blvd. Penthouse Los Angeles, CA 90024 USA Tel: (310) 806-4288

Terry

By definition, writing on spec means that you're writing without a guarantee of getting paid. You're speculating. You're gambling. In the case of scripting a producer's story at her request, you've hedged your bet -- at least you're writing a story which the producer already likes, in the abstract, anyway.

Laverne,

I have used Final Draft for years and love it. I'd be lost without it.

Two must-read books if you're going to try your hand at screenwriting:

David Trottier, The Screenwriter's Bible

Robert McKee, Story

Also, read several scripts. Some are available for free on the internet.

Terry

"This is a tough business and no favours are being done by encouraging newbies. Newbies should be actively discouraged at every turn. If they aren't tough enough to fight through these minor discouragements how in the world will they survive the harsh eyes of producers, directors, studios et al."

David,

Is that how you got started in the business? "Don't do it, David." "Don't waste your time, David." "Don't even try it, David, you'll just be a failure." "Don't make a fool of yourself, again, David."

When I applied to grad schools, some sent with their applications a warning that jobs in English were few and far between. If I had listened to those warnings, I would have spent my career working as a contact rep for the V.A. rather than as an English professor working with some of the greatest literature ever written.

So, here's my message to newbies: Give it a try! Screenwriting requires a lot of work, dedication, diligence, reading a few books, reading other people's scripts, and some money, and success is not assured. But, if you really want to try it, get some advice on how to get started and go for it. That's what the rest of us newbies did, and most of us will never sell a script, but some will.

Terry

David,

My apologies. I missed the tongue in your cheek. My duh! Just be glad I'm not a studio- or contest-reader.

How about sending me a complimentary copy of your book? Ooops. A newbie wanting something for free! I'll probably pay for that with a Randy rant, proving the age-old adage that nothing is free.

Not Terry

If we could take all the wit, passion, and conflict from this bulletin board and put it into a screenplay, we'd probably have a blockbuster movie to our credit. Aye, there's the rub -- we'd argue endlessly over the credits.

My Movie Proposal:

Title: Bulletin Board: The Movie Genre: Romantic Comedy Theme: All you need to find love is to sleep with everyone you meet. Protagonist: daVid Counselor (40), a lawyer with a deep, dark secret -- at night, he writes. Love Interest: Terri. She senses daVid's emotional and intellectual depth, but has trouble getting past the fact that he's suing her. Protagonist's Sidekick: Terry. He's always telling jokes, but never gets other people's jokes. A thorn in everyone's side. Villain: Randy Rant. He's the bully who trips you, but curiously offers his hand to help you up. Like daVid, he's hiding a deep, dark secret -- he's secretly a sweet guy and cries while watching chick flicks at home in the dark. Sacrificial Virgin: Santa Sierra. I'm not sure how to work in a sacrificial virgin, but every romantic comedy needs a salacious subplot. Character arcs: Terri metamorphoses from convent-educated neurotic to tabletop stripper at road house bars for motorcycle gangs. daVid finds the love and passion that was missing in his life when he drops the lawsuit against Terri and gives her a prenuptual agreement instead. Terry. No character arc here. Not everyone has the capacity for growth. Randy. After a short fling with Terri and the motorcycle gang, and works in phone sex to pay his way through massage therapist school. Santa Sierra eventually wins an Oscar for her screenplay "The Motorcycle Gang Diary."

Not Terry

Okay, DeJay, you just earned yourself a place in the screenplay:

DeJay. Became a hippy long after the hippy movement had expired, now trying to find fullfillment as the leader of a motorcycle gang. After a brief but passionate liaison with tabletop stripper Terri, he falls in love with Santa and takes her with him (and the gang) on the road, which leads to her Oscar-winning screenplay. With Santa's leverage as the author of her Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, which she would self-adapt into the screenplay, DeJay stars as himself in "The Motorcycle Gang Diaries," and becomes Hollywood's baddest bad boy, but squanders much of his fortune by partnering with Tom Cruise in the Scientology II movement, which collapses when it's revealed that Carrot Top and Conan O'Brien, not Tom Cruise, are the fathers of Katie Holmses' orange-haired babies. Moves to Columbia with Santa (and the gang) to grow poppies to fund secret domestic spying operations of the CIA.

Not Terry

Terri,

It's hard to imagine you, uh, I mean "your character," being forever chained to, or satisfied by, one man. I picture you in Utah with a harem of hunky husbands, with you constantly adding to and deleting from the ranks. Think of it not as a sexual addiction but as an embracing of libidinous love, prurient passion, the physical metaphysical, an action adventure in the bridal brothel of betrothal. (One more alliteration and I'm gonna start st-st-st-stammering!)

And that's just in THIS movie. Imagine where we can send you in the high-budget se-se-se-sequel!

Not Terry

Paula jumped in on this, so I think we need to find a plce for her character in the movie. Given her post, she seems a tad mercenary, so how about... corrupt judge presiding over the case of daVid versus Terri? With her ill-gotten gains, she buys the rights to Santa's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel and executive produces it, earning herself an Oscar for Best Picture. However, during production, she has a brief fling with DeJay (like all the other women), then falls head-over-heels in love with Randy Rant (character arc from dominatrix to submissive), but (and I know I shouldn't be using the word "but," but I like but) loses all her money financing Randy's bikini waxing salon in Beruit, Lebanon. We're not worried about her, tough, because at the end of the movie she's standing in line to audition for "So You Think You're a Submissive?"

Not Terry

When I was 20, I had a brief affair with a woman who was 35 (she said, but she was 38 according to Earth orbits of the Sun). She said, "You can do anything to me that you want to."

If I knew then what I know now...

I'd like the links to TJ's scripts.

Terry

Did you skip your meds?

Ebay Marxist. Isn't that an oxymoron? Like saying a capitalism socialist?

What's the latest on your psycho/thriller? Did the big guy like your treatment? Are they gonna boost the budget and make the film? Is it set in Crawford, Texas? Is it in limbo? Do they wanna pay me $15,000 to do a rewrite? C'mon, give us the lowdown.

Don't make me summon the purple ogres!

I think your name sounds romantic. I thought you should be able to sell a screenplay based on your name alone! You have a beautiful name, be proud of it.

If the guy said he turned down your script based on your name, then he's an idiot, a bigot, a liar, or all three. Don't let it discourage you; there are some filmmakers out there who aren't brainless twits.

Or how about a remake of "The African Queen" starring Traci Lords and Ben Affleck?

Or a remake of "Casablanca" starring Nathan Lane and Roseanne Barr? Or Damon Wayans and Barbra Streisand?

And in that CLAUSE, you can insist that a starring role goes to your MADRE.

Joseph Conrad died in 1924. Shouldn't "The Heart of Darkness" be in the public domain?

I skied in Vail on two broken legs.

It's not your job as a writer to provide a budget. Sounds like a company of bloodsuckers feeding on the dreams and naivete of aspiring screenwriters. View with suspicion anyone who wants you to spend money in order to get your screenplay looked at.

I really did ski Vail on two broken legs. And I skied Arapahoe Basin with four Playboy Bunnies.

Whatever.

Both events are true.

I skied on two wooden legs, blindfolded, to demonstrate for 500 ski instructors that a blind double-amputee could ski. My instructor was a few feet ahead of me telling when to turn and which direction. At the end of the run, I fell over and cracked both wooden legs. We taped them up with black electrician's tape and I skied for the rest of the day. Without the blindfold.

Joanne Ditmer, a columnist for the Denver Post (newspaper), arranged for four Playboy Bunnies to ski with the amputees from Fitzsimons Army Hospital. Since I was the only double-amp and the rest were one-leggers, I got to ski with two Bunnies in the morning and the other two in the afternoon. What was really fun, though, was what happened the next time I had lunch at the Denver Playboy Club (my stock broker was a member). The number "eight" ends the story.

All true, folks. Reality is often far stranger than the fictions we create. For example, my mother started a firefight in Vietnam. True story.

I was a grunt in A Company, 2nd 502, 101st Airborne. Summer of '67, we were moved into the I-Corps (northernmost part of South Vietnam) to a coastal city called Chu Lai. We were getting our butts kicked by the NVA, so when we would get back to base camp (Chu Lai), everyone was mean. My mother regularly sent me boxes of chocolate chip cookies and hot sauce. My whole squad expected to enjoy this perk. One time, when we got back from the boonies, my mother had sent a box, and everyone gathered around to get their share of cookies. But, instead of cookies, the box contained two packages of green plastic toy soldiers and a wind-up ballerina doll that played music, like a music box. Having dropped out of college and volunteered for Vietnam, I as already a character under suspicion, like the Charlie Sheen character in "Platoon," but this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Some guys were ready to stomp me, but my fireteam partner, "Tom," said that my mom was just trying to help us up our body count. We set up all the toy soldiers on the bank of the stream at our perimeter, then lined up the whole platoon with M-16s, M-60 machine guns, and M-79 grenade-launchers and we blasted the toy soldiers. Apparently, there were a couple of VC on the other side spying on us because they stated shooting back, thinking we were shooting at them. The entire camp perimeter broke out in fire, even the artillery! No one got hurt, but our platoon racked up about 40 dead enemy toy soldiers and I got shit-burning duty for the incident. My mother started a firefight in Vietnam. True story.

By the way, my mother thought I would be able to trade the wind-up ballerina doll for romantic favors, like GIs with stockings in France during WWII (according to legend). We didn't shoot the doll. I didn't find out my mom's intention behind the doll until I got back from Vietnam.

Hey, Ron, you and DJay are both Marines. Aren't you supposed to "Semper Fi" and grab each other's crotches or something? I just wish the Army had left the I-Corps to you tough guys!

Anyway, I'm gonna enter the Vail contest. I'd love a paid vacation to a film festival in one of the top ski resorts in the world. If you're a skier, you really should enter. The skiing is awesome! And it's a beautiful community. And you can drive to Aspen and take a scenic glider ride in the Valley of the Maroon Bells, an adventure you'd never forget. That's where I had my first glider flight, back in 1977, and it changed my life.

My R&R was in Tokyo. Five days with Tonya. She visited me in the hospital in Tokyo, twice, after I got wounded! My mom did know about Tonya.

Do you know what kind of script this contest is looking for? Cheap indies? Open budget? Do they favor any genres? Or is it just the best read?

Linda,

That's some rich stuff! No pop-out eyes in my family, but my dad used to like to stick his tongue out at people under his bottom dentures. It was a really disgusting thing to see, but nothing like the pop-out eye. Did you happen to share that story with Terry Rossio before he worked on "Pirates of the Caribbean"?

My mom was the worst cook in the world. The first time my wife ever had Thanksgiving dinner away from home was at my mom's house. When dad carved the turkey, it bled! Another time, mom made us Swedish meatballs for dinner. She cooked the meatballs, packed with uncooked rice! When my mom made fried chicken, she'd cook it on one side until that side was black, then serve it, the other side still raw. The food in our house was so bad that when I saw a sign on a restaurant saying "Home Cooking," I thought they must not want customers. Who wanted "home cooking" when you could have restaurant food? It didn't make sense. Until I joined the Army, my favorite food at home was a can of Hormel Chili with beans. The first time I tasted pot roast made with potatoes rather than turnips, I cried at the table. Needless to say, that was not at my mom's house.

I think we should award to Linda:

The Golden Thread Award.

I can't imagine anything topping the pop-out eyeball and the blow-up houseguest. (Imagine the stories we haven't yet heard!) When you have a family like that, you're doomed to be a writer.

Linda, at least you ain't hurtin' for material! What do you have in the way of brothers and sisters? Are your aunts and uncles as colorful as your mom and dad? Did you have trouble adjusting to the world outside your house? Are you constantly answering the question, "Did you take your meds?"

Ron, Tonya was an attractive, young, Japanese companion earning $100 a day untaxed, and getting most things bought for her on top of that, like dinner and jewelry and such. She was really enjoying her life. No way would she have wanted to come home with me! I was operating waaayyy above my natural level for those five grand days. It was like having a classy girlfriend for five days. We did everything I would have done with my girlfriend in Tokyo if she had been there (and a few things my girlfriend probably wouldn't have done--she dumped me while I was "in country"). It was kinda like "Roman Holiday" but in Tokyo, with Lucy Lui instead of Audrey Hepburn and Screech instead of Gregory Peck. The kind-hearted hooker takes pity of the skinny grunt with jungle rot on his ears and hands. You know, there's a movie there: the Vietnam war from the point of view of a Tokyo hooker, dealing with the youthful carpe diem wildness of her GI clients, but also suffering emotionally from dealing with their fears and their desperate attempts to live a full life in five days. It must've taken its toll on them. I should hook up with some Japanese writer, mortgage my soul (I don't own a house) so I can move to Tokyo to co-write the script, and get Sophia Coppola to produce and direct. Hold it, now I'm sounding like Ben!

Linda,

I certainly badmouthed my mother enough! But, she was also a great inspiration in my life. She was a painter, an amateur actress, a pianist, a piano teacher, a writer, and a theater director. She lost most of her hearing when she was seven or eight, and the family thought for awhile that she was retarded, but she just couldn't hear. She regained some hearing (vowels, mostly) and learned to read lips and facial expressions. You couldn't lie to my mom and get away with it. When I was twelve and in love with Cheri Richards, my mom would critique the poems I wrote to Cheri before I polished the final drafts. Cheri and I "went together" for about three weeks, then she dumped me, but it wasn't because of the poetry. When my mom was an amateur actress, I used to go with her to her rehearsals, so I grew up with one foot in the theater. That, and Latin, and because when I came back from Vietnam all the girls were in English classes, was why I ended up an English professor. My mom also did astrological charts and read palms. When I was sixteen, I came home from a date that went rather poorly and mom asked if she could read my palm. I told her to leave me alone. She insisted, so I let her. She said, "Pay attention." She read my palm, then asked me if I could remember everything she said, and I said "yes." She said, "Now, you have the best excuse in the world to hold hands with girls for the rest of your life." I actually thanked her, because I knew she was right. And she was.

Ron,

I was wounded in August '67. The only reason any of us survived was because it was pre-Tet. They were saving their arms and men for the Tet offensive coming just five months later. Otherwise, we would have been overrun. As it was, they killed 6 and wounded 18 of us, out of 24. All of us! And the overran another platoon, which we were trying to save. As it turns out, I was lucky. They guys who weren't wounded badly enough to get medivaced had to stay in the field, and most of them were killed or seriously wounded over the next two weeks. Then, those survivors ended up on Hamburger Hill, I believe. So, I consider myself lucky to have gotten out of it as well as I did. Especially considering that "Doc" told me in the field that I was going to die. I survived. He didn't.

I think this Tokyo prostitute story could be really good. I see her starting out as a department store mannekin. They really used live girls as mannekins! She goes out with a girlfriend and ends up dating a GI on R&R. She has a great time and doesn't even realize that it's a paid date until he gives her money. The money's so good, she ends up doing it on a regular basis. But, as she "dates" more and more GIs, she deals with a widening and deepening variety of problems. Not hard-hearted like many prostitutes are depicted, she's emotionally affected by the fear and grief of the young men, usually only 19, and in the end she's back in a department store, a mannekin, detached from humanity. I don't know, is this fresh, or is it a rehash of some familiar but forgotten movie of the past? It feels good, but then so does scratching my ass!

You DEFINITELY need to talk with an entertainment attorney before signing anything with this company. The "creator" of a TV series receives royalties every time an episode airs, in perpetuity. And I can't remember seeing a TV series in which the creator wasn't also the executive producer of the series and writer of some episodes, particularly the pilot. The option money sounds low; it should probably be $1,000 for six months or at most a year, and the purchase price is ridiculously, insultingly low. And no way should you be giving up your rights to royalties. That's my opinion.

DJay,

When we were in the Central Highlands, it was almost a turkey shoot. One or two VC with two bullets and single-load WWI-era rifles. Sometimes there'd be more organized action and more modern weaponry, but we always inflicted far more casualties than we took. But, once we moved into the I-Corps, in the north, we were facing well-trained, well-equipped, highly disciplined NVA, and they inflicted heavy casualties on us in every encounter. The day I got wounded, we were operating in company strength but in platoons, and we ran across a battalion base camp. The NVA left behind a company as a rear guard while the battalion evacuated the camp, and that company hit us with rifles, machine guns and mortars. It was a mortar that got me. Our company didn't even carry mortars. Our heaviest weapon was the M-60. One of our platoons got overrun; I think maybe two guys got out alive, but they were totally in shock. We burnt up both machine guns, used all our grenades and M-79 rounds, and were sharing M-16 ammo when the enemy launched an ambush. They could have walked over the top of us, but chose not to, probably to save their men and ammo for Tet. So, that's what I mean when I say we got our butts kicked.

What Linda said, and make sure she's an experienced entertainment attorney, not your neighbor's ambulance-chasing cousin.

I was a rifle-totin' grunt, not an officer, so I rarely knew where we were until we weren't there any more, and I never knew any enemy unit's designation. Management kept us ignorant on purpose -- you can't obtain strategic information from a captured ignoramus.

Enough Vietnam. Let's get back to screenwriting.

Post-partum depression... or post-coital... depending on the script. I get that, too, even from a rewrite (post-enemal). But, at some point, you have to throw the baby out the window and hope that she sprouts wings. (Do not attempt this with an amateur baby. This should only be attempted with a professional baby.) Good luck with your script, Ranty. I hope you get good notes, the kind that show you opportunities and possibilities, instead of the kind that say page 90 should happen at page 28, then you should blah blah blah; that way you'd have a family-friendly sci-fi romantic psycho-thriller with heart.

1950. Starring Humphrey Bogart as a screenwriter with a character flaw which complicates getting what he wants -- Gloria Grahame. You might enjoy the film's portrayal of the writer's life. It's playing on the Retro Channel on Comast today, and Friday, and the 23rd.

It's also available from Netflix.

Notice that in the grapefruit scene he delivers a screenwriting lesson about love scenes that even Robert McKee would approve.

Scriptapalooza has a newsletter subscriber list which they allow their sponsors to use to email ads. When people respond to the latest ad, especially to unsubscribe from the email list, their email doesn't go to Scriptapalooza, it goes instead to another person on the subscriber list. I have received dozens of emails from people attempting to unsubscribe from Scriptapalooza's list.

Scriptapalooza's initial response was that some spammer not associated with Scriptapalooza was doing this. Excuse me, but spammers use email lists to send their own crap ads, not to misdirect subscribers' emails! Now, they're apologizing for people getting too many ads sent by the sponsor, as though that were the problem. I have forwarded dozens of the misdirected emails to Scriptapalooza, but they still don't recognize what the problem is! If they don't recognize the problem, how are they going to work out a solution?

Is anyone else on the MbBB experiencing this problem?

I'm forwarding each one to

info@scriptapalooza.com

That way they go to scriptapalooza instead of some other victim on their email list.

Mark,

I followed your instructions and the undesired emails immediately ceased. Thank you for getting on top of this with reasonable speed and diligence.

I plan to resubscribe in a few weeks, after all this is for sure resolved. I would also like to say that it appears there was no intended mischief by the sponsor.

There are, by the way, several contests which produce their winning short scripts.

Yeah, Ben, I'll get right on it. And shall I get you a Starbucks while I pick up your dry cleaning?

I haven't seen the trailer. Are we selling it short? Could it be about a bunch of con artists flying First Class? Or politicians on their way to the Republican National Convention? Or lawyers stuck in an alternate universe? Or movie producers with too much money and too little vision? Or a bunch of gay exotic dancers trying to join the mile high club?

Linda, I think Ben's drinking too much Starbuck's, or something. I admire his Peter Sellers self-delusional spirit, but I swear half the time I have no idea what he's talking about and the other half I think he has no idea what he's talking about. But he has that anything-is-possible, noble savage weltanshauung which I would hate to see corrupted by my trite cynicism. On the other hand, I worry that he's going to mortgage the house and smoke it up in some pipe dream. I favor the advice expressed earlier in this thread, maybe by you -- just do the work.

Steven, thanks for sharing your recent experience with shorts. You have inspired me to write one, which I have already started. Even if no one buys it, it will be a good exercise. And it's always fun to try something new.

Linda, would you please send me an email?

Hey, I used to go to drive-in theaters all the time. I don't remember seeing any movies there.

Okay, Ben, now suddenly you're writing without your aggravating incoherency and random use of capitalization and strained punctuation. And it doesn't sound like English is your third language. So, how about coming clean, huh? Remove the mask and reveal yourself.

They had concession stands?

He said a comedy, not a satire. And heaven forbid we should have another Jim Bakker exposed! A friend and I wrote a screenplay entitled "For Heaven's Sake," which was a satire of a Bakker-like evangelist, and we sold options on it for a year and a half. Then, the Jim Bakker was exposed for the morally repulsive piece of crap he was behind the pious mask. The options stopped because our televangelist (Zeno Ponder, we named him) was an archangel compared to Jim Bakker and his ridiculous wife, Tammy Faye, with her cosmetics-encrusted face and mascara tears.

The screenplay could work if you show that the characters trying to rip off the church are the fools, not the congregation. Their pitch sounds good, but the finished product is absurdly off-base, as ridiculous as "Springtime for Hitler" in "The Producers." Yet, somehow, it finally works, in some unexpected way, to the advantage of the congregation.

Zeno Ponder. It turns out we weren't going to be able to use that name because there was a minister by that name somewhere in the state (potential lawsuit). I agree, though, that it's a great name for a pulpit pounder.

Consider the origins of Scientology -- started off a bet. (So I've been told.)

I did.

Steven or Richard,

How much do producers typically pay for shorts?

Steven,

Do you use an agent or an entertainment attorney for your shorts options, or do you handle them yourself? Are the options or sales contracts as complicated and detailed as features options or sales contracts?

Thanks, Steve! Very helpful.

Frederick is absolutely right. Censorship isn't needed. Just ignore what's useless. So what if he/she creates some threads, they'll die away quickly enough is you don't respond.

No doubt many actors use the creation of backstory as a tool to "get into" their characters. But backstory is also a tool for the screenwriter, playwright, novelist, etc. Robert McKee talks about backstory, David Trottier talks about backstory, and, if memory serves, Syd Field, in his workbook, suggests writing out a page or two of backkstory for each of the major characters. If you take a screenwriting course, you'll almost certainly be instructed to provide pages of backstory before you even figure out the whole plot.

I think backstory can be used in at least two ways. The preferred way is to create the backstory, then watch the character do what he or she would do in a given situation. That generates a character-driven story. The other way is to fill-in the backstory as you need it to justify the character doing what you want him/her to do. That's a plot-driven story, and far less desirable to the film-making community and probably less compelling to audiences.

It can also be fun to write the backstory. You get to play psychoanalyst for each of your characters. And it can be a more rigorous process when you write in collaboration; you go back and forth about the details and events of each character's life, but the collaboration forces you to justify each one.

Kudos to Linda for reclaiming the Board.

I think one of the important aspects of backstory is to provide something in a character's history or psychological makeup to allow her to surprise us. Characters constantly make decisions which surprise us, or else the readerdoesn't get past page 10.

I love the character of William Miller's mother in "Almost Famous." From the beginning, it's all about her extreme stand against sex, drugs, rock and roll. She's so extreme in her opinions that the family celebrates Xmas in June to ensure that it's not commercialized. And yet, when 15-year-old William gets the oportunity to go on the road with Stillwater to write a piece for "Rolling Stone," she lets him go. And then there's Penny Lane. At the end of the story, when Russell calls her and asks for her address so that he can come see her and they can say all the things they never said, she gives him William Miller's address, which is a surprise for us as well as for Russell. As much as Penny Lane loves Russell, she gives him William's address, because she knows that William is the one that needs healing, and that Russell is the one that needs forgiveness. That's just awesome character writing!

One other point -- psychological thrillers. This genre is an exploration of a character's backstory. It's a mystery, a search for some key experience in the backstory which explains a character's current behavior. It would be hard if not impossible to write a psychological thriller without thoroughly fleshing out at least one character's backstory.

Linda, just playing the waiting game. No news is not bad news.

Meanwhile, I'm trying to finish revising a script in time to submit it to the Zoetrope contest.

Hey, speaking of Zoetrope, "Marie Antoinette" is coming out later this year or in 2007. It's written and directed by Sophia Coppola. I LOVED "Lost in Translation." I'll bet I've watched it two dozen times. Bill Murray's best performance by far. Scarlett Johansson was perfect with her understated angst. "Marie" looks like a very expensive period piece, with costumes and sets as lavish as anything I've ever seen. I'll bet it will be an emotionally compelling film.

I agree, Linda's right. Doing our homework on our characters would lead to better screenplays. Notice that in really great screenplays (films), every character is interesting, even the minor ones. Like "American Beauty," or "Bagdad Cafe." The backstories for "Bagdad Cafe" must fill a three-ring binder! Good backstory will create the character. You'll write her differently than if she's just a blank slate filling in a character slot. "Margaret, bitter over a lifetime of being abandoned by men," will be a more interesting minor character than "Cashier (40)." The abandonment issue will inform her dialogue, attitude, and actions. For example, at Wal-Mart, Cashier (40) scans the products and asks for $19.48." Margaret with the abandonment issue secretly double-scans a couple of products and makes sure that the tooth brush doesn't make it into the bag. "Bitter over a lifetime of being abandoned by men" isn't written into the script, it's backstory, a single sentence, which creates bitter Margaret rather than just Cashier (40). I think Jim Jarmusch must have written a hell of a lot of backstory for the characters in "Broken Flowers." Neurotic characters require backstory.

John, I think it's a really good idea to provide some backstory even for the "fish food." If a character is just going to die as a nameless victim, the audience is unaffected. But if the character has a name and personality, we feel at least a twinge of pain at his death. For example, Carlos "only signed on for this gig to save enough money to buy my kid a bike," or "to send my daughter to ballet school," we have an opportunity to care about his character and feel some pain when the piranha nibble him to screaming death and his blood squirts onto the picture of him proudly holding his daughter in her pink tutu. Well, maybe that's a bit over the top, but you get my point -- "Soldier 3 dies" doesn't affect us, but "Sergeant Carlos Montoya who risked his life for his family goes down screaming" gives us an opportunity to regret his demise. Even a horror film will be more successful if we have some emotional attachment to the victims.

Walter,

I agree with everything you said. I was just trying to make the point that even minor characters can be interesting and add to the fun if they have a backstory, which leads to personality. Anything can be overdone, of course, but I prefer to give something a try, then dump it if it doesn't work, rather than not try at all. It's important to make sure that what you do with a minor character isn't there for itself but in some way or other advances the plot or complicates the situation.

"Jaws" is an excellent movie and one I've studied many times. It's based on a truly horrible novel. The USS Indianapolis speech, by the way, was added by a separate writer hired for the purpose.

Makes great sense, Linda. Revelatory backstory. A technique of payoff. There is some risk, however, if the whole story hinges on the revelation, as in "Sixth Sense" -- if the audience figures it out on their own, there is no payoff. I hated "Sixth Sense," but then I'm not into stories which employ the supernatural. I think Hannibal Lecter is a thousand times more frightening than a planet crawling with ghosts, ghouls and zombies. Vampires, on the other hand, are a vehicle for exploring sexuality. Vampires are usually more attractive than scary, except the original Nosferatu, who makes your skin crawl.

I got "Overnight" on your recommendation and watched it twice. Excellent documentary. A true how-not-to-succeed-in-Hollywood cautionary tale.

Linda, that is an awesome idea! Take a character and place him or her in a different story and see how he or she would behave. I love it! Good exercise in character-writing. Might be a great way to generate some shorts, too. Maybe take several characters from several screenplays and place them in situations. Arrrgh!

By the way, it's sequel.

Okay, continuing with Linda's original thread, I'm just brainstorming here, but it seems like it might have some useful application...

Write out your theme, usually one or two words, and draw a circle around it. Then, draw tentacles extending away from your theme and write different aspects or expressions of that theme. For example, if your theme is "courage," aspects might be "cowardice," "false bravado," "moral vs physical," "bullying," etc. Then, attach minor characters to the aspects of the theme not occupied by major characters, and create their backstory relevant to that aspect of the theme. That way even the minor characters are always pushing the theme of the story.

I've never done this, it's just a thought I had a few minutes ago. Maybe I should have been doing it from script 1, but I haven't. Does anyone do this or something like it? Is it a bad idea? Does it obstruct the creative collision of the expected with the off-the-wall?

The idea of the exercise is to ensure that even minor characters push the theme by giving each one an aspect of the theme not covered by a major character. Once you've decided what aspect of the theme the minor character is going to cover, then you can create a line or two of backstory which explains the motivation and personality for the character to behave as she does.

In the AUGUST EXTREME NEWSLETTER, Barb Doyan has an excellent article, which she wrote, about theme and relating theme to character. For some of you, it might be "Yeah, I knew that," but for others it might be revelatory. I think it's a terrific article and makes the idea of theme accessible to all writers.

I would just copy it and paste it into a message, but it's copyrighted and only she has the right to do that. I'm going to send her an email asking if she would use it to start us on a new thread. Whether she chooses to share it with us on this bb or not, I recommend going to her Extreme website and signing up for her free monthly newsletter: http://www.xtremescreenwriting.com

What I love about Barb's essay is that it talks so clearly about the links between theme and character. When I'm writing a script, I'm not analyzing it. In fact, one reason I started writing scripts was to escape analyzing literature. I got tired of looking in at other people's creativity from the outside and describing it. I wanted to write my own stories, exercise my own creativity.

I start with an idea. With "Blue Ground," for example, I simply wanted to write the definitive Loch Ness monster story. I did a lot of research to figure out what would be required to have such a monster in the modern world, then I built on that. That's how most of my scripts have been built. The result is that most of my stories are plot-oriented, not character-driven. I create the characters who will get the job done. Using ideas from Linda's backstory thread and from Barb's theme-and-character essay, I feel that I'll be able to create characters with more depth and not waste time with features which don't advance the theme.

I've been rewriting an old script and I've been finding lots of opportunities to improve it by replacing dialogue and action which I liked because it was humorous or clever and replacing it with dialogue and action which exposes the characters' weaknesses, adding depth to the characters and scope to the theme. When I rewrote "Blue Ground," I addressed Aristotle's Unities of Time and Place, and, to a lesser degree, Action. Focusing more rigorously on character issues and theme is a great way to unify the Action. Aristotle would be pleased.

Six years ago, I met a screenwriter named Michael in L.A. He taught me a lot about writing dialogue and I could feel my writing moving to a new level. Then I moved back here to take care of my ailing mother. She died. (I guess I didn't take very good care of her!) After that, I didn't do any new writing for four years. Now, after a three-year binge on astronomy, I'm back to writing new scripts, and I can feel that movement to another level. And the process started with some great coverage from Molly at A Feeding Frenzy. She was enthusiastic about the script but found a few areas which needed to be addressed. Her notes "rang true," so I planned a revision of that script and then executed it. Now, Linda's and Barb's contributions here dovetail with that more rigorous attention to character depth which Molly encouraged, and it's all flowing into the rewrite I'm working on now.

Pay attention, folks. We have some professionals sharing ideas with us which can illuminate the path we all hope to walk. I don't know if any script I write will ever get produced, but I know that by being open to what these people have to say, I'm improving my chances. And it makes the writing more fun. Or, as Ben would no doubt say, funner.

Francis,

One warning about contests -- READ THE FINE PRINT. Most contests have very detailed agreements which you must sign in order to enter the contest. I advise that you seriously consider the disadvantages of entering a contest in which the winner gets optioned or where you have to guarantee a "first look" or exclusive representation. If your win automatically earns an option or a first look, then you won't be able to enter most contests ever again. If your win gives them exclusive representation, then you are giving them a de facto option for free and you have nothing an agent could sell. I'm not saying don't enter these contests, I'm just saying read the fine print and make sure you are comfortable with the terms your are agreeing to. And forgive me for ending that last sentence on a preposition.

Linda, you are leading a charmed life! Congratulations on selling your baby to parents who will allow you to visit, love, and nurture her.

Sorry, Linda, but once you've been hyphenated, there's no going back. It's like being a trans-sexual -- even if you have restorative surgery, the best you can hope for is to be a retro-sexual. An intervention might help, but it would only be cosmetic, as deep inside you've gone over to the dark side of The Force. The real world pollutes.

Goodbye from the Ivory Tower

In the July/August issue of scr(i)pt (p. 24), the one with Pirates on the cover, Joel Haber has an article on the importance of concept and story in the spec script market, and he talks about how it's vital to develop the story around a theme because that is what will attract an audience. It's worth reading.

Linda,

Please check your basement. I feel certain that there is a pod growing down there! If you find one, you must drink coffee and do whatever is necessary to stay awake. Otherwise, you will wake up a writer/director. That's like being hyphenated -- once you ar slashed, you can never go back. Eventually, the writer part will die off and you'll be, I shudder to write it, a director, and you will join forces with producers to hunt down and destroy writers.

Seriously, though, I (and I'm sure all the others who post or just kibbitz here) wish you nothing but success, even as a writerslashdirector. Please don't forget to pass along amusing or instructive anecdotes and advice and phone numbers and raw gossip.

Awesome! You go, girl!

Just skimming the queue.

THIS IS A DISCUSSION FORUM, NOT A FREE AD SITE! PLEASE BUY AD SPACE LIKE OTHER MERCHANDISERS. THIS IS AT LEAST THE THIRD TIME YOU'VE BEEN ASKED NOT TO POST YOUR AD ON THIS DISCUSSION BOARD.

Great writer, lousy PA. That's better than lousy writer, great PA! (I think.)

Sounds like you have the makings for a new script, here, Lola. Add a love interest and you have a romantic comedy. Add a killer, you got a thriller (or Scream III).

Keep on posting. We love hearing about your smashing success.

Good question, Walter. I'd also like to know what free sites people find worth the time.

Tito,

it's = it is

its = possessive

I got excellent, detailed coverage from A Feeding Frenzy at a reasonable price:

http://afeedingfrenzy.com/index.html

Hey!

I haven't bought coverage from Barb Doyon, but I wouldn't hesitate to use her service. I've ben thoroughly impressed with her writing about screenplays, essays which make writing issues clear and accessible to writers at all levels. I even asked her to post her essay on theme (What's your script's theme?) on this bulletin board and I moved it to the top of the topics queue for your easy reference. It should appear just below this one. Also, you can sign up for her free monthly screenwriting newsletter.

Tito, you wrote:

I'm of the belief that each person has a natural inclination to favor structure or freedom. Those who favor structure are better at grammar, story structure, and the business of writing. On the other hand, those who favor freedom are more imaginative, more skilled at creating story, and dialogue.

Personally, I don't buy into that. It escapes me how a familiarity with the rules of grammar and punctuation are necessarily an impediment to creativity and good dialogue. However, I do see how a lack of familiarity can be an impediment to be taken seriously as a professional writer. That is why I offered the correction, because I assume that you want to be regarded as a professional writer.

"It's" for "its" once looks like a typo. "It's" for "its" twice looks like sloppiness. "It's" for "its" three times in a row looks like ignorance. So, please, Tito, do yourself a favor and get it right. You seem like a nice, intelligent, creative man, so don't go on your first date with a big ugly zit on your forehead.

Thanks for the detailed report, Linda. Sounds magical. Too bad you can't bottle it and take it home with you after all is done. Keep the reports coming.

Terry

Linda,

Are you going to take any meetings on other possible writing jobs or script sales while you're in LALA Land?

Are you any closer to saying goodbye to your job and writing full time?

Tito,

I entered two screenplays in the Expo, but haven't heard back, yet, on either.

By the way, the reason I do pretty well with grammar and spelling is that I took Latin in the 7th and 8th grades. Latin was also a great help with vocabulary, since a large percentage of English words have Latin roots. I can still picture my Latin teacher in my head -- Mrs. Scott. Tall, thin, wide shoulders, dark hair, scary when she wanted to be, soft when we got the answers right. I wish I could thank her for having such a profound effect on my life. (Like my agent, she's now dead. God bless them both. Wonderful, loving, demanding women.) The only reason I pointed out your zit was that "it's" for "its" is considered a "glaring error." Just trying to help you out, pal, in a friendly way. Everything I've read on screenwriting emphasizes getting the errors out of the script. Even the instructions for many contests advise proofing. So, when necessary, engage your left brain to give a little polish to the products of your right brain.

On the subject of creativity, I strongly recommend Arthur Koestler, The Act of Creation, available now, I believe, in paperback from amazon.com. It was out of print for years. He describes the creative act structurally as a collision between two objects or events never before seen together (need to print mechanically vis-a-vis the wine press), and he describes the nature of the creative artifact (humor, poetry, invention) according to the emotions of the creator (aggression, sympathy, detachment). It's brilliant and well worth the investment in time and money.

Randy,

Hey, I didn't call Tito dumbass or idiot or anything. I just pointed out that he was misusing the common contraction. I was an English professor for twenty years and I've been the editor or textual editor of a variety of magazines, so I know how to be harsh when it's warranted. What I did was the equivalent of simply circling the mistake on his paper in red ink. (I still get a special pleasure from red ink!) So, everyone, let's drop it, now. I was just trying to be helpful. Case closed.

I don't read other people's scripts. I'm busy enough working on my own. I graded or edited other people's writing for 35 or so years. One of the reasons I quit teaching was so that I could quit reading and commenting on other people's writing. I don't even read the scripts of my favorite movies, anymore. They never match the film and they're always littered with gross violations of the rules we're threatened to follow. Have you ever read the script for American Beauty? It's like a compilation of violations of the "mistakes" we're supposed to avoid. And it's worthless to me to read scripts for style. I create a new style with each script I write, a style which fits that story and that genre. If you read three of my scripts in a row without knowing that I had written them, you'd never guess they were by the same author.

I like writing screenplays because I can disappear into a world inside my itty bitty head. What's really fun is when you're so preoccupied by the current screenplay that you dream the story. I actually dream what I'm writing! Sometimes I find answers or new avenues in my dreams. That's when writing is at its best for me -- when I'm dreaming the screenplay. That way, sleep isn't wasted.

Tito,

Hey, guy, you don't get to be the Charlie Sheen character! That was me!! I dropped out of college to join the Army, volunteer for the airborne, volunteer for Vietnam. I was defiinitely the outsider in my platoon. I wrote a short about an experience I had in Vietnam -- "Combat Ballerina." No, I'm not gay. The title refers to what was in a package I received from my mother, who usually sent chocolate chip cookies. This time, however, it contained two packages of plastic toy soldiers and a ballerina music box. Jumping to the end of the story -- my mother started a firefight in Vietnam!

I checked the EXPO results. Thanks for the link, Tito. Neither one of my screenplays made the cut. I'm not gonna cut my wrists. Contests are subjective and you can't count on any results in any particular contest. Ya takes yer shot and ya hopes fer the best. Between the two screenplays, I have three wins, a top finalist, a third place, finalist many times, semifinalist many times, quartefinalist a bunch of times, both have made the first cut in the Nicholl (one this year), and one made the first cut at Austen this year, and yet the readers at the 20/20 contest couldn't identify the antagonist in either screenplay! Let's see, prehistoric monsters eat humans. That's pretty subtle, huh? In the other, the antagonist appears on 13 of the first 15 pages, including page 1, attacking the protagonist directly or indirectly, even accusing him of treason, yet the reader couldn't identify the antagonist. What can you do? You write your best and hope for the best and don't let the contest readers get under your skin. If you get back comments and they "ring true," make the necessary adjustments and push on. Any win is a gift. Any finalist ranking is an honor. Semifinalist is encouraging. Quarterfinalist means at least you're not an idiot. Not making the cut only means that you wasted your money, like the lottery ticket you buy every week.

IMHO

Jerry,

If it's marketing and publicity that you need, try Danie Cortese.

www.daniecortese.com

If you click on "Contests" on the menu bar, you'll find contests listed in a variety of ways, including most significant, best report cards, etc. Also, you can buy script coverage. If you'll look at previous posts, you'll find particular services recommended, some of them connected with contests. I got my best coverage from A Feeding Frenzy. Other writers have other favorites. Don't tke a reader's comments as gospel. Some readers just plain suck. For example, a reader in the 20/20 contest couldn't identify my screenplay's antagonist, monsters that eat the human characters. In the same contest, another reader couldn't identify my other screenplay's antagonist, even though he appears in 13 of the first 15 pages, including page 1, and is attacking directly or indirectly the protagonist, accusing him of treason, wanting to challenge him to a duel, stealing his mistress and parading her in public, and reciting a satire against him. I think it's pretty lame when a screenplay can win two contests and make the cut in the Nicholl and Austin, but the reader can't identify the bad guy. So, again, don't take a reader's comments as gospel. Make sure the comments "ring true," then make the adjustments with which you agree. By the way, that goes for paid coverage, too. Paying for coverage doesn't make the reader smarter, just richer.

If your screenplay is as great as you say it is, it may "get lost" in some contests, but it won't get lost in all of them. Explore the contests you are thinking about entering. Look at each contest's stated goals and past winners and finalists. If your screenplay is a comedy and the past winners are generally drama, you might want to save that entry fee for a more suitable contest. AND, follow each contest's instructions to the letter. Failure to conform can get you eliminated.

I recommend avoiding contests that award an option or "first look" contract, as winning will make you ineligible for most contests forevermore. Until you are an established screenwriter, you don't want to lose the contest venue for your writing. IMHO.

You'll find the answers in Trottier's "The Screenwriter's Bible." Most contests refer participants to this book for formatting style. You'll find that the modern style is minimalist.

I tried "Heroes," didn't like it. I have a problem with shows where you have to watch ten or twelve episodes to discover the mystery, which turns out to be some lame cliche, anyway. Like that invasion series last season. Or "24," which got old fast (for me). I realize that I must be a defective TV viewer, but I just don't like committing myself to a mini-series that lasts ten or twelve hours, or years! I don't watch sports, either, except golf, and then only if Tiger is playing, and only passively (e.g., while doing a crossword puzzle or paying bills).

I do like "The New Adventures of Old Christine," and the BBC comedy series "Coupling," which unfortunately isn't on, right now. "Grey's Anatomy" bled to death for me, and "The Unit" got downright trite. I use my TV mostly for movies. Netflix probably hates me!

To end on a positive note -- I'm astounded at the incredible acting talent in both film and TV. Having performed the role of the Fool in "King Lear" at a university, I have the utmost respect for real actors (which I was not). To all the wonderful actors and actresses who put it all on the line to inject life into characters -- kudos to you. You are brave people.

Dennis,

I've had the same problem. You can refer to them when they're not there. E.g., "Hey, Dave's here." "Dave had the same idea." "Ask Dave when he gets here." You can use name plates on desks. A person can have an object named after him/herself. E.g., "Dave's Journal." Most of all, though, try to find casual moments to use direct address. E.g., "C'mon, Dave, gimme a break!"

If it's really awkward and you can't find a natural moment to refer to the character's name, substitute Friend 1 or Co-Worker 1, etc. The name doesn't belong unless it's used either in dialogue or in a visual cue.

I have it on my Netflix cueue. It's says, "Long wait."

Halloween has really changed. When I was a kid, several hundred years ago, we used to give out caramel apples. Sometimes we would do our own haunted house with skeletons hanging from the trees. My brother would pull a rope to make them dance. I'd dress as Dracula and open the door while Mom played spooky music on the organ. (Yeah, we had an organ!) To get their candy, the kids would have to reach into our homemade coffin. One year, it was so spooky, some kids wouldn't come inside our gate. Everything was homemade. Mothers sewed the costumes. Fathers painted faces. After trick-or-treating, we would sort out our candy and swap some. Then, the razor blades in the apples got started. Candy security became an issue on the news. Now, I live in an apartment, ground floor, and I haven't had a trick-or-treater in two years. Now, families dress their kids in Wal-Mart costumes and drive to "safe" neighborhoods. This year, I'm not buying candy and I'm not answering my door if anyone knocks. I'm going to do my impression of Gollum in his cave, hoard my precious, and avoid sunlight.

Thanks, Richard. It's just "good old days" whining.

Today, I had lunch with a friend who said that no child was ever hurt by a razor blade in an apple or popcorn ball except where the razor blade had been inserted by a member of the child's own family. I wonder if the candy companies fueled the candy security issue, once it got started, to ensure that we would buy rather than make treats. Always a cynic (me).

There were three knocks on my door last night. I wasn't going to answer, but I wanted to see a kid or two in costume. The first knock was a girl, 10 or 11, dressed as I don't know what, alone. I told her sorry, I don't have any candy and she smiled and said okay. Then I had an idea and asked her if she liked dark chocolate. She said yes, so I fetched a huge dark chocolate Hersey bar from my kitchen. Second knock, another girl, 10 or 11, alone, dressed as I'm not sure what. Like the first girl, she seemed to have used stuff from the attic, not Wal-Mart. Both girls were probably urban princesses or teen hip hop stars or something. I told her I didn't have any candy and she just smiled. I explained that I hadn't had any trick-or-treaters in the last two years and she said, "That's okay." Now, I really felt like the Grinch Who Stole Halloween! Two girls braving the cold night alone and I don't have a treat for them? I'm an asshole and she's brave and polite. From now on, I'm going to have candy on Halloween even if I've got a long-term lease on Gollum's cave. There was a third knock on my door, but I didn't answer it. I felt bad enough that I had failed the ghouls and ghosts and super heroes and cats. This was my worst Halloween ever. Hold it... guilt, remorse, personal failure... I think I feel a short coming on!

Don't film festivals provide a venue for indie films?

What are "indies," anyway? I thought they were simply films made by production companies not backed by or affiliated with the major production companies or distributors. Please enlighten me (I'm not being sarcastic here). I've never paid much attention to indies as the screenplays I write can't be made on a shoestring budget. "Rochester" -- a period piece, billions of dollars for wigs and carriages. "Blue Ground" -- trillions in CGI costs. "Hog Heaven" -- flying footage ain't cheap. I don't intend to write expensive films, I just write to the story.

I repeat -- Don't film festivals provide a venue for indie films?

Hey, Randy,

Thanks for leaving me out! My sci-fi horror BLUE GROUND made the semis, too! Now, when the purple ogre visits you, it will be accompanied by highly evolved baby plesiosaurs ravenous for their first bite of Texan flesh, your flesh. If I were you, I wouldn't sleep at night. They do my bidding.

Finalists will be announced by Nov 30th, winner by Jan 2nd, according to Barb's web site.

Terry (James T.)

Hey, I don't have a plume, much less a nom de plume! Terry is my middle name and and rather handily separates solicitors from friends. I'm sorry about the purple ogre and the baby plessies, but they've already been sent south and aren't answering their cell phones. I don't know how long it takes to slither from Colorado to Texas, but, if I were you, I'd upgrade your property insurance and sublet your residence until the carnage is over. My bad.

Enough with all this good will! Screenwriting is a cutthroat game. I hope y'all lose and I win!! Other than that, I wish you all the very best. (wry smiley face)

Greg, a sweat sock full of jelly beans may charm my purple ogre but will work no magic on my baby plessies. They got their fill of candy (and trick-or-treaters) on Halloween. If anyone has anything nice to say to Randy, this is the time to do it. In a few days, he'll be nothing but smelly little piles of plessie manure forming a trail which leads directly to Kevin Federline (the 12th step in their weaning program).

In the spirit of collegiality, I'd just like to say, Randy, you've been an entertaining contributor to this bulletin board. Generous with your opinions, quick to call out posers and chastise abusers, frequently a lightning rod, but always there, like Davy Crockett at the Alamo, or Custer at Little Big Horn, or Cruise at the pews of Scientology, or the British at Dunkirk, or the Spartans at Thermopylae, always standing your ground bravely, often bleeding but never flinching, like the brave knight in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" still taunting and biting at his enemies when he was left without a leg to stand on, which is exactly how my nasty little plessies will leave you, a mere stump of a man, unable to operate a computer without a lungful of air and a well-aimed straw, the Steven Hawking of screenwriting. I wish I could call them back, I really do, but, like Bush, once they have their minds set on something they won't budge for love nor money, rhyme nor reason, fate nor fortune, cake nor ice cream. Like some lesser known cynic probably said, death is cruel, life is crueller. But, now you know, buddy, Hollywood is cruellest! Bye, bro. We loved ya. Group therapy will seem sane without ya. By the way, don't scream, it just makes them eat slower.

Square Shaped World! I love that title. I can already see the poster promoting the film. Santa, have you posted on InkTip.com? That sounds to me like a title that would get a lot of hits.

Randy,

You might want to consider keeping the script "clean" and using some storyboards to show them what they'd see. Also, if they do read the script, camera directions will probably just confuse them (and break up the flow of the story) unless they're professional filmmakers.

Now, that's an awesome title! Wordplay that makes you smile. Well, makes me smile. I can't speak you you. Anyway, if the script is as clever as the title, it should be getting lots of hits on InkTip. Anyone know the contest pedigree of this title?

"Running with Scissors" is the film in theaters now. "Running with Sisters" is the title of a script being advertised on the moviebytes home page, that list to the right side of the current articles.

A Texas Ranger pursues murderers for justice, a widow for revenge.

My point is simply that all the proposed loglines seem too talky. What I keep hearing from people in the industry is "short, shorter, shortest."

A Texas Ranger pursues murderers for justice, a widow for revenge.

First of all, a logline should be one sentence. A simple sentence, if possible. No names. No details. I'm not suggesting that you should use my logline. I don't even know the story! I'm just trying to give you a model of a shorter, more concise logline. Actually, mine's ambiguous -- the lawman could be pursuing the murderers for justice and pursuing the widow for revenge, so obviously it doesn't work. Add a few words, it won't be ambiguous anymore. Better yet, start from scratch but keep it short. Not one unnecessary word.

Here's another way to think of it. Your logline has two purposes -- 1) to get the producer excited, 2) to get an audience excited. What the producer wants to hear in the logline isn't the plot or about a flawed character, she wants to hear a pitch that will sell to an audience. You're thinking about character arc and story integrity, she's thinking about ticket sales. What words will be used in ads and on posters to get moviegoers to choose your movie over another?

Randy, if this logline is just for private investors, all bets are off. You can do anything you want. You could have mentioned this at the outset. You did say that it was for an indie film, but the fact that it's an indie film doesn't mean the general wisdom of loglines doesn't apply. Many indie producers access InkTip.com, for instance, and they expect lean, mean loglines. In your specific case, one rule applies -- write what you think will get the money out of their wallets. Forget lean and mean. In fact, I'd put in some description of the three main characters, which I assume are the TR, the widow, and the widow's son. E.g., a tough-as-saddle leather Texas Ranger, still bitter over the murder of his pregnant nymphomaniac mute teenage bride, clashes with an angry alcoholic widow bent on revenge for the murder of her fifth husband on his way into his lawyer's office to annul their iron-clad prenuptual agreement, which leaves his modest fortune to their flamboyantly limp-wristed son who plans to invest it all in an off-Broadway musical romance about gay terrorists who fall in love in Baghdad.

I'm not ashamed of liking any movies, but I do consider two as "guilty pleasures." Australian-made "Sirens," which I think is a wonderful movie. I know, you're thinking, "He just likes the nudity." Well, that's nice, and handled in a way no American director is capable of, but it's an excellent story with shades of D.H. Lawrence. The other "guilty pleasure" is a French film, "Swimming Pool," which indeed has some appealing nudity (Ludivine Sagnier) but is just an awesome story, and again a film no American director could have made. You have to watch the ending carefully to capture the twist which makes this a complex story.

I also think "An Awfully Big Adventure" (Georgina Cates, Alan Rickman, Hugh Grant) is a much better film than it got credit for. And I admire Georgina Cates for fighting for the role.

Overrated films, for me, include "Erin Brockovich," an exercise in tedium and predictability, "The Sixth Sense," which can't be watched twice, and "Driving Miss Daisy," a vanilla treatment of racism. And I do not like the "Godfather" movies. It's not that they're not well done, I just don't like movies which glamorize the mob, a group of people just one step above lawyers and politicians (bottom-feeders).

I watched "Jaws" and "Alien" and "Aliens" almost every time they appeared on TV for years. For me, "American Beauty," "Chicago," and "Apocalypse Now" are three of the best films ever made.

"Always." I love it. I own it. Dreyfus and Holly Hunter both at the top of their game. And I don't usually like stories which involve the supernatural.

I really like "Stage Beauty," despite its fast-and-loose treatment of London stage history, but I think "Restoration" sucked, though it wasn't as sucky as "The Libertine" (good acting by Depp, miserable script, incompetent direction).

I'm not sure Peter's definition of a logline applies in the real world, even if it's straight out of Trottier or some screenwriting seminar. I suggest that the logline doesn't have elements, it has a goal, and that goal is to get the reader to request the screenplay and start reading it. A logline is a form of affective writing, therefore form is not an issue. The best logline for a screenplay might be a simple question -- What would happen if...? Generally, giving a nutshell version of the premise may be preferable, but it's not an absolute. And I agree with David that a good logline raises more questions than it answers.

Most college writing instructors will tell their students to put the thesis in the first paragraph. Gawd, what a horrible idea! If I know that you think abortion is murder or that abortion is a woman's right, why would I bother to read the essay? Better to start with the question, "Abortion, is it right or wrong?" That way I have to read the essay to find the writer's message. Same thing applies to screenwriting. If you don't create suspense, you lose the reader. If you don't sustain suspense, you lose the reader. If you don't supply a payoff, you piss off the reader.

By the way, I believe the phrase "inner demons" should be banned from loglines and scripts. The phrase has become such a cliche that it has lost its meaning. We need to find new words to express the notion of the interior struggle of the characters.

David,

I like your original logline. The key is that she doesn't know friend from foe; that's a twist on the usual assassin story, and you'll have an opportunity for suspense with everyone she meets. A good thriller director would LOVE this!

Yes.

Betty,

At least it's not crack or smack!

A possible approach -- don't oppose his screenwriting. Tell him you're not going to ask him to quit writing screenplays, but ask him to find a balance between that activity and his real life. My guess is that you've probably already tried that. Many times.

I hate to say it but it sounds like you have a dramatic and compelling story about the dark side of the imagination. Maybe with someone's help you could contact some indie prodcos and tell them your story, with the ironic ending -- the aspiring screenwriter flails around in failure while the abused wife sells their real-life story to off-Hollywood. One problem you face is that you can't copyright an idea, only words. You could get some protection, perhaps, by writing it out as a treatment (in prose, not screenplay format) and copyrighting that. Perhaps Linda can offer some advice here.

You know the cliche -- if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I think the Hallmark Channel is looking for true stories to dramatize. The story you have to tell has all the elements necessary -- interesting characters, building conflict, emotion, story structure, and a satisfying, ironic ending. But, if I were you, I'd get Linda's advice before doing anything. She's intelligent, successful, trustworthy, and generous with her counsel.

Don't move out there with one script in hand. You should have several, excellent, polished, marketable scripts. Agents aren't interested in a script, they're interested in marketable scripts (plural) and productive writers.

If you've had little success on the contest circuit, what makes you think you'll do any better in the real world? If you've had success, that would seem to improve your chances of a sale, but doesn't ensure it. "Voices" has an amazing, astounding record of wins and finals over several years, but still hasn't sold. (See Winning Scripts.)

If you're a niche writer, you can probably tap that niche without moving to Hollywood. If you write, for example, about the Latino experience, identify the prodcos that handle that material and hit them with your stuff. If they don't want to use it, your being in L.A. won't make them like it any better.

In 1999, I moved to L.A. on the advice of my agent. In 9 months, I got one whole meeting with producers and one invitation to a party with Hollywood has-beens, and I met no one else, not even my neighbors. It's a polite city, but not a friendly city. And driving in L.A. is the 7th level of hell. On the other hand, that is the experience of an aspiring (read "unsuccessful") screenwriter. If I had been successful, I'm sure my opinion would be different.

IMHO

Walter,

Please write my loglines for me. Please! PLEEZ! PUH-LEEZ!

I'm not suggesting that Betty write the screenplay, just that maybe she could sell the concept. I'd like to see Betty come out of this with something besides heartache and debt.

If Betty's not real, she had me fooled! Either way, I think her story has the makings of a good screenplay about addiction, and it makes three really good points:

1. Anything can become an addiction;

2. Any addiction can destroy lives;

3. Anyone can fool me if they use the words "soul-sucking" and "snarky." I especially like "snarky." I'm not sure what it means, but I'm guessing that it perfectly describes a particular in-law of mine.

Sorry, DJay, but she sounds real to me. I can only hope the best for you, Ms. Martin. I hope things turn around, soon.

To put in my two cents about motivation. I don't want to go into why I started writing screenplays, back in the 80s (and not one yet sold, though about a dozen options sold), but I write now because I enjoy making up stories and I find the screenplay format most suitable to my "talents." I see every detail like it was on the screen and I write what I see. My best hours are from midnight to six, when the world disappears in the dark. When I'm finishing a script or polishing one I just finished, I become totally immersed in the task for several weeks. I even dream the story! That's when it's the best -- when the world disappears completely and only the story exists. After that, it's like post-partum depression, or like the emptiness you feel when you've acted in a play and suddenly it's all over, no more rehearsals, no more performances, no more wringing of handkerchiefs. A void that has to be filled, filled with... guess what... the next screenplay. But then, I live alone and have to answer to no one, not even an employer. Well, there's the landlord, but I always pay on time. So, the bottom line for me is that screenwriting is an indulgence, a choice of how to spend my finite hours on the planet, not with other people but with the characters on my pages. I'll probably never sell a script, but I never expected to. That would be gravy, but it's not the meat.

Randy, you don't own the board. It's open to anyone. I think it's perfectly appropriate for Elisabeth to turn to the board to seek answers. And if you think she's a poser, you can always just ignore the thread rather than set yourself up as the board censor.

People seem to be missing the point that he doesn't talk to her, any more. It's hard to have a conversation with someone who doesn't talk back!

Let's assume that Elisabeth is a poser and that this whole thing has been a fabrication, still the topic is a worthy one -- what motivates screenwriters to write? In fact, that topic is pursued monthly in Script magazine ("Why I Write"). So, if Elisabeth is a poser, I don't care, and if she isn't, I feel sympathy for her. If I'm feeling sympathy for a fictional character -- hey, what's new? I relate more to fictional characters than I do to real people, every day. That's the life of a loner.

Way to go, Frederick! Welcome to the zoo!

I don't know about online articles, but Linda Seger's "Creating Unforgettable Characters" is an excellent book on the subject. I attended one of her seminars, too, and she was awesome!

Contact Barb Doyon at

http://www.xtremescreenwriting.com/

and see if she has any articles on character from her monthly newsletter. In my opinion, Barb gives excellent advice and is the very best at communicating the concepts of screenwriting with techiques that you can actually use.

In the meantime, concentrate on predictability versus surprise. The best way to kill off your reader is to be predictable. Characters must surprise, but the surprise must be believeable, the seeds planted in earlier scenes. Even Captain Jack Sparrow in "Pirates of the Caribbean" surprises us with some of the choices he makes, proving, every now and then, that there's a "good man" lurking inside the blustering pirate. And surprise shouldn't be limited to the leading characters. Supporting characters find depth through surprise, too.

It's not a logline, it's a mini-synopsis. Cut the details. Brevity is the soul of loglines.

A condemned man must escape death row to save a town from....

David,

A logline has one purpose -- get the reader to take a look at your script, or at least your synopsis. The general wisdom is "the fewer words the better." Theoretically, every character deals with inner demons and external forces, so you don't necessarily have to go there. The shortest loglines are the most memorable.

Female pilot dogfights for top gun.

I must respectfully disagree with Richard. Neither "On Writing" nor "The Elements of Style" addresses the specific task of the logline. I do recommend reading them, but they won't help you here. Also, do not name your characters in a logline. Is your reader going to pick up your script because of your protagonist's name? No. Unless it's Elvis or Jesus. Don't include the diplomat; it only raises questions. E.g., how does a death row inmate discover the plot fo a diplomat? Sounds ridiculous. So, since it isn't ridiculous the way you've worked it out in the story, leave it out.

A condemned man escapes from death row to save a town from disaster.

Now, quit worrying about the logline and finish the damn script! I want it finished and polished and ready for contests by early March. Better yet, finish it, polish it, then send it to Feeding Frenzy or Extreme Screenwriting for thoughtful, intelligent coverage that will neither drain your wallet nor advise you to throw out Acts II and III and change the genre.

It's still too long.

Didn't you say he was on death row? If so, I would use "death row" instead of "prison."

I said just write the screenplay. The logline may come more naturally after you have finished the script, plus you may have to make some choices which may change the story. Maybe his mother will disappear and be replaced by his first girlfriend, or maybe by his first boyfriend since prison. I have never had a screenplay work out exactly the way I planned in advance. So, why worry about the logline, now?

To all you Mb Posters,

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious low carbon footprint, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, low saturated fat, smoke free, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of all other faiths and minorities or those who choose not to practice religious or secular traditions at all.

By accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms - This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself or himself or others and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual applications of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent any later holiday greetings, whichever comes first, and the warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.

{Copied from a post on Juliasweeney.com)

Have a good one, whatever it is,

Terry

I agree with Joan. "Direful" is a useless word in a logline. In fact, avoid adjectives as much as possible! And use active verbs, not linking verbs.

Whatever happened to changing the channel? No one's forcing you to read the thread.

I always start with a general outline, not many specifics, but I always deviate from it during the writing process.

It seems to me that an outline would be useful for a genre script, but anathema for a character-driven script.

The title doesn't belong in the logline.

No, I am not Betty! I don't know whether Betty is a poser or not, but I think it's useless to bitch and complain about her when all you have to do is ignore her. Pests often just go away when they don't get attention. I just hate to feel all the negative vibes on this BB.

Terry, who absolutely is not Betty

It's much improved. You can get rid of "A group of." I also think the last two words need a little work. "Or stay forever" just doesn't sound very scary. It needs to be more menacing without giving away the secret.

If they're going to become "part of the house," like incorporated into the walls or such, you might get responses that you're ripping off POTC Dead Man's Chest, unless you've added some original angle.

Has anyone else seen this "film"? What an unmitigated piece of crap! Studio readers gave this a green light? It's a comedy but there isn't one funny line in the whole movie! The story is ridiculously stupid. Worst performance of Michael Douglas' career. Owen Wilson brought absolutely nothing to the film that we haven't seen in every other film he's ever made. Act III is contrived crap which resolves nothing. I'm having a real problem wrapping my head around the idea that someone read this script and said, "Let's spend millions."

John, I hear what you're saying, but I doubt this one had any meat on the bones considering that it had no bones.

Terri, I agree with you. The Break-Up and The 40-Year Old Virgin were miserable. How The Break-Up could be classified a comedy is waaaay beyond me. Makes me doubt my sense of genre! And The 40-Year Old Virgin was a good premise without execution.

Here's a gaping logic gap. In YOU, ME AND DUPREE, Matt Dillon's character tells his wife (Kate Hudson) that her father hates him, but he doesn't show her the pamphlet on vasectomies that her father gave him, encouraging him to have one. He waits until near the end of the story to reveal that damning detail.

In horror films and thrillers, characters are always throwing away perfectly good weapons! If some maniac or zombie is after me, the last thing I'd do is drop the axe or the gun. And why the hell do they always leave the murderer alive? Kill the son-of-a-bitch! Take the axe and split his skull or chop off his arms, but don't drop the axe and run just because the maniac, bent on killing you and your family and your dog, just happens to be unconscious! And, if you have only six bullets, don't fire them wildly at nothing like that idiot in THE HILLS HAVE EYES. In that same film, the father finds his baby and leaves the axe! Sink it into the woman's head! She's obviously one of the maniacs, she has the baby! And the guy with elephantiasis, chop him, too! By leaving these bad characters alone, the good guy risks the life of his child. These people burned his father-in-law alive, murdered his wife, and probably raped his sister-in-law. Yet, he shows them mercy.

Screenwriters and/or filmmakers do these things for the sake of tension and suspense, but for me it doesn't create suspense if the behavior is idiotic or unrealistic. DELIVERANCE does it without compromising the characters.

"Reverts back" is redundant.

Charlie reverts to his earlier, mentally-challenged self, but it is a failure of medicine, something over which he has no control. That's not a logic gap of any kind. It's a good film, based on a great story.

Gerard,

I guess we're on the same page. More often than not, I'm on the wrong page. Or a blank one.

Whether you enter Barb's contest or not, go to her website and subscribe to her newsletter. She writes the best screenwriting tips I've seen anywhere.

Good study in suspense.

Add THE WICKER MAN to the list of brainless stupidities parading as films. What a waste of a Netflix cueue position!

I watched it both nights. Much better than standard TV fare, but it appears to me that it promotes surrending our civil liberties just like the Bush administration wants us to do. Or should I say "accept," as they're doing it whether we like it or not.

Randy,

Of course you think that -- you're a Texan. You're the people who made an idiot a governor, then helped get him elected President.

Based on the first four hours of the show, it's definitely pushing the Bush agenda. For example, the storyline justifies the use of torture, and it's usually the protagonist, Jack, administering it. The show also suggests that the FBI, CIA, NSA and groups we don't even know exist should have total access to all our private information because terrorists have infiltrated even the most benign clubs and organizations.

Hey, the show's on Fox, right? Need I say more?

Randy,

You're right. My apologies. I should know better than to drift into politics on this BB. Believe it or not, I have some friends who are Texans. (Sounds like I'm saying lepers, huh?) And Texas has the best soaring conditions in the U.S. I've flown sailplane races out of Uvalde (west of San Antonio) and Hobbes, New Mexico, and cored thermals to 20,000 feet over Texas soil! I once hit a thermal so strong that it lifted one wing and flipped my glider upside down! Fortunately, glider pilots practice spins, so I recovered without even losing the thermal. Marfa, in the SW, is also a hotbed of Texas soaring, but I never flew out of there. The panhandle (Lubbock and north) is great for racing because there are plenty of places to land -- farmers' fields. So, Randy, despite my bitter resentment about Bush, I have many fond memories of Texas. I almost moved there, once just for the soaring. In fact, I still think about it, but now I have no sailplane. Woe is me.

Whatever I think of the politics of "24," I do think it's very suspenseful and employs clever plot points.

Randy,

I'm going to continue to watch "24," which I saw only a few episodes of last year. I'm interested in seeing where they go with the plot and I want to use it as a study in suspense.

Go to a gliderport and take a ride in a two-place glider. It's extremely safe and it's an experience you will never forget. Makes a great Father's Day present. My first glider ride was in Aspen, CO, over the Valley of the Maroon Bells. Awesome views! Plus, we did a loop! I loved it so much I took my 2nd flight while I was still at Aspen, then I went home to North Carolina and arranged for lessons in Chester, SC. After I soloed, the VA sponsored a set of flying legs for me, then I flew as a professionally-sponsored sailplane racing pilot for about 10 years, probably the best ten years of my life. My family usually crewed for me, and my older son soloed in a glider on his 14th birthday! Invacare was my sponsor. I still use their wheelchairs. I never won a contest, but I made great friends and had more fun than a snake in a rat hole.

I realize that this would probably be regarded as directing in the script, but I have a situation where I'd like to suggest a scene where we don't hear the voices of the characters (MOS), but I want music from the preceding scene over this scene and into the next. Is it logically inconsistent to call for MUSIC and MOS in the same scene, or can MOS refer specifically to dialogue?

"MOS" means "without sound." The expression comes from German director Erich von Stroheim telling his crew when scenes would be shot "mit out sound." (In German, "mit" means "with.") See page 155 of Trottier.

I wanted to leave out dialogue (MOS) because it just isn't necessary and use a musical bridge between three scenes which are related thematically. I was wondering whether it would be logically inconsistent to specify MOS but at the same time call for continuation of the music from the preceding scene. Music is, after all, sound.

Linda, congratulations on your film. From all your reports, it has sounded like a writer's dream. I always imagine being banned from production and having to violate court injunctions to get near the set! Your experience has shown what a wonderfully collaborative effort a film can be. I'm really looking forward to seeing it.

A friend of mine named Karon Luddy has had her first novel published and it's getting excellent reviews. The title is "Spelldown" and it's about a teenage girl growing up in the South. Available for $11 to $13 from amazon or Barnes & Noble. I'm hoping it gets adapted to film. I think it would be a perfect project for Zoetrope. Anyway, it's really exciting when a personal friend finds success in the literary world. Maybe we'll see her short stories in Oxford American! What does this have to do with screenwriting? Nothing, per se, but I assume some screenwriters like to read good fiction, and this is fiction I highly recommend. And I know she hasn't sold the rights.

Linda,

Thanks for the formatting suggestion. Fits nicely with the new, simplified screenplay style.

Enjoy your rough cut. It's hard to imagine how excited you must be. We're all behind you. You are our Golden Girl.

Anyone have an opinion on the monochrome laser printers by Brother?

Thanks, John. Very helpful.

One problem I'm dealing with is that I'm a Mac user and not all printers work with Macs. The HP 1022 is Mac compatible and all the Brother machines. I'm shy of Brother, though, because my first electric typewriter was a Brother and it was a piece of useless junk. People either love or hate their HPs. I love my Epson inkjet printer for color, but it takes 25 seconds per page to print scripts. I want an affordable laser for faster printing and a crisper image. I can try the Consumer Reports route, if it ever quits snowing long enough for me to get to the library. Colorado has gotten confused this year and thinks it's Alaska.

Best of luck with your film enterprise, John. You're a bold man. You know everyone here at the Board will be pulling for you.

Part of the score. I want to drown out the speaking character's voice, then use a music bridge to and over the next scene (two characters are talking but we hear only the music), then the music bridges to the third scene where it's brought abruptly to an end by a piece of action. In the middle scene, we don't need to hear what the characters are saying, just see that they are working together on a project.

I don't write the logline until I have to.

Check out the website. Also, if you email, Danie will answer.

Best of luck, Greg!

I'm not a client.

Jamie,

Go to InkTip and look through the short scripts. You'll find some writers repped by Danie. Maybe you can then contact one or more of them for their opinions.

I would use (V.O.), which applies to any electronically transmitted voice as well as to narrative voiceover. Also, Bush is on the TV screen, but he is not in the scene, not actually there.

Trottier doesn't cover this well, but Cole and Haag do.

Gary,

You need to read Robert McKee's STORY, available at the Writers Store, amazon, and book stores.

Howard Allen, the ScriptDoctor, hosts this contest. He recently sent an email to the Finalists apologizing for the delay in their prize packages. His note included the following paragraph:

"Some of you are waiting for the 2nd Evaluation too, but one important judge just sold her script and is in rewrites for an April shoot date already. My partner, the Senior Analyst at Dreamworks, got swamped by them. I co-wrote a script that Robert Duval's people all of a sudden want immediately, so we're polishing in every spare moment."

I don't know about the rest of you, but those are the people I want judging my screenplays! And you get back notes! They're short, but pointed. I used the first set of notes to make a few revisions to ROCHESTER before it went out to another prodco. I believe that the two sets of notes are the combined remarks of four -- yes, I said FOUR -- readers!

Final Draft 7 can wait, and so can the notes. Sell those screenplays! I like being judged by people who are actively selling their own work, and by the top analyst at DreamWorks. Kudos to Howard and his crew.

Thanks, Peter. I have someone working on the selling part while I hack out yet another screenplay, this time with a brilliant German co-author I've never met. Our goal is to have it done in time for the Nicholl (May 1st). Plus, I'm outlining another screenplay, in detail this time, in hopes that it will speed up the scripting process.

Chris,

You make a very good point -- contests are subjective. The readers are human and have their likes and dislikes. Plus, some contests are looking for a particular kind of script, some just for the best scripts.

My screenplay ROCHESTER has been winner (2), finalist (2), third place (1), semifinalist (2), and quarterfinalist (2), yet has failed to make the first cut in half the contests I entered it in. BLUE GROUND has been winner (1), third place (3), finalist (6), semiinalist (6), quarterfinalist (1), and hinorable mention (1), but also failed to make the first cut in many contests. In fact, BLUE GROUND ranks on Winning Scripts as #1 in horror, #3 in sci-fi, and #8 in thriller, yet has never made the first cut in a horror contest, e.g. Eerie Horror, AKA Shriekfest, or Slamdance Horror. And none of my scripts has ever made the first cut in the Open Door, Final Draft or Scriptapalooza contests. In the 20/20 contest, ROCHESTER scored 3 and BLUE GROUND scored 4 out of 20 points, if memory serves. The readers couldn't even identify the antagonists of either screenplay! But, both screenplays have been recommended to prodcos by the administrators of other contests. Go figure!

You can't count on a successful outcome in any given contest, and no screenplay wins every contest, even if it's written by the legendary James Ossi. (Have you looked at his incredible contest record? If not check it out on Winning Scripts.) Just keep writing, entering, revising, and writing. And be sure to enter contests which are highly recommended by other screenplay entrants for their excellent coverage. I made lots of revisions in 2006 based on comments from screenplay contest readers, and I feel that both screenplays are significantly improved as a result.

Paula, ditto to that. It's really discouraging to see that we didn't learn a thing from Vietnam, except how to torture people (like that's ever been a secret).

According to an article written by professors from The Johns Hopkins University and published last year in The Lancet, a juried online medical journal, over 650,000 Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the war, including all causes. That's a lot of people to kill for a mistake.

So, Saddam rules from the grave? Sounds like an episode of "Angel."

Way to go, Linda! I just watched the BEHAVING BADLY clip on YouTube and I can see what you mean about it all becoming real. Finally, fixed images and sounds, actors' faces on the characters and their voices speaking the words. I would imagine that what you visualized in your mind will now be erased or replaced by the film. Let us know if that's what happens.

CONGRATULATIONS!

Barb is excellent. She has an incredible talent for explaining things in a way that adds a new level to your understanding. Be sure to subscribe to and read her monthly newsletter (it's free).

Gail,

I hope you'll give Howard and his gang a break. They got a lot of interest (and some actual jobs, I believe) just as the contest was finishing. I'm sure that Howard has already promoted the winner and finalists or will as soon as time permits. Even if it weren't an obligation, it's in his own self interest to do so. He has created a unique vehicle (The Contest of Contest Winners) to promote the best of the best, so to speak.

Terri,

The most precious thing we have is time, yet we usually fritter it away as though it has no more value than gutter water. Thanks for the reminder not to waste our days.

Terry

An aside: I have watched people die. Die instantaneously. Die slowly. Die violently. It has always struck me as strange that many of us don't know how or when we die, but our friends and families and usually even strangers do know. How sad not to be in on the most personal and intimate experience of your own life.

My mother died in her sleep from a brain aneurism. The doctors said that, even if she had been awake, she would not have known what was happening because it was instantaneous, "like a grenade going off in the head." In combat, I saw some guys die die instantaneously, blown up or shot in the head. I saw others die slowly. My father had a lingering death with cancer, caused by asbestos poisoning.

So, for some, it's a lingering, painful, terrifying experience. For others, they don't even know it's happening.

InkTip is one of our best resources for connecting with producers. Post a logline and synopsis, and maybe 20 to 30 pages of your screenplay, enough to make them want to read the rest of it.

You should also have 1- and 2-paragraph synopses available (1/4 to 1/2 page).

I don't recall Trottier addressing this, but Cole & Haag does.

The Mysterious Old Man from the book store parking lot steps forward and removes his fake beard, revealing that he is actually ROBERT STACK (72), Martin's long-lost carnie father.

In a case where we hear a character's voice before he/she is introduced...

VOICE 1 (V.O. or O.S.) Make way! Make way! Do not touch the car!

The limo stops. The LIMO DRIVER (Voice 1) gets out and tries to chase away the rowdy Students putting their hands all over the Rolls Royce limo.

Jim's loss.

Dov S-S Simens (SP?) does a weekend seminar about producing a film on a shoestring budget. Here's a link to his Web site. Click on the two-day course and you'll see his schedule, including L.A. in August.

http://www.webfilmschool.com/2day.htm

Terry

Bill G,

I suggest that you write an email to the contest and ask for clarification on what the judge means when he/she says your script is "indulgent." Add that you have discussed the comment with other screenwriters and script doctors and all you get is wide-ranging speculation. Then, tell us what answer you get, if any.

Terry

Bill G,

You said in your original post that this comment was from a contest. Now, you refer to a coverage provider. Was this purchased coverage or a comment from a contest? If it was purchased, then they absolutely owe you a clarification. If it came from a contest, they don't OWE you any clarification, but they SHOULD make an effort to clarify the comment. Most contests would, unfortunately, ignore your request.

Terry

The truth is we don't know who reads the entire screenplay and who doesn't. If you're a contest reader and you're reading a script which is clearly lacking, are you going to labor through all 125 pages? Probably not. Most contests ensure that at least 20 pages will get read.

I recommend ScriptSavvy and Barb Doyon's Extreme Screenplay Contest. ScriptSavvy gives you some feedback with your entry fee. Both offer excellent notes for a reasonable fee. You'll find a lot of Barb Doyon fans on this BB, and her free monthly newsletter always has an excellent article on some aspect of screenwriting.

Terry

I thought the pitching in the first episode was instructive. They showed several people who made mediocre to lousy pitches and one guy who nailed it. The difference was like the difference between a go-kart race and the Indy 500.

Terry

Mike,

Based on your comments and my faith in you as an extraordinary screenwriter, I just ordered SAVE THE CAT. It better be good or I will have to have you disappeared!

That sounds like an excellent tip about endearing the hero with some small compassionate action. But where I really need help is with my villains. I don't like bad people so my villains tend to be pussies. I do best when my "villain" is the environment or something else non-human, like monsters (e.g., BLUE GROUND). I hope the author has some tips about making villains more despicable. Has he written a book entitled KILL THE PUPPY?

I'm not sure what Bill G means. Does he mean that contests should post their entrants' loglines? If so, how would that make a contest more fair? How would that make a contest more competitive?

Bobby,

Walter asks, " Are you and Bill the same person?"

You answer, "No, its not."

Can you see why some people think you're either a poser or a complete idiot?

I just read on the net news that the production budget for EVAN was 175 million!

If he spent as much time writing screenplays as he does playing head games maybe he'd have something to be proud of and to ask real questions about. My guess is he's a wannabe who doesn't have the self-discipline to do the work.

Bill G,

You couldn't sell sunblock to a naked redhead in the desert. If you want to try something new, try jerking your head out of your ass long enough to see something other than your own bullshit.

Why don't you try actually writing a screenplay? You haven't written one. You know it and we know it. And why haven't you? Are you too lazy? Too scared? Are you a spineless sociopath who amuses himself by irritating people you've never met, or are you trying to get revenge on the world because just touching you made your mother's skin crawl? Do you know anyone who doesn't cringe at the sight of you? I mean, if you and your aliases want some attention on this BB, give us something to work with. Give us an idea who you are, on the inside, then we can use you in our writing. I'd love to write a character who's a would-be pedophile who needs Viagra just to masturbate. But maybe you're just lonely and needing attention but have nothing worthwhile to add to a discussion, to any discussion, on any subject under the Sun.

Bill G, let me translate for you: I challenge you to unmask yourself, to come clean and tell us why you persist in posting your inanities. Even if you are not an aspiring screenwriter and have no desire to write a screenplay, give us a chance to engage the real you. It's like that cable channel with the motto "Characters welcome." But it's "characters" welcome, not pests.

Linda,

I'd love to marry you, but I'm beyond my childbearing years. If you're willing to carry the babies, maybe we can work something out. I have two sons, but they are older than you and wiser than me.

Randy,

I sometimes think you are too harsh on certain posters, but I'm with you on Bobby and Bill G. You really do have a bloodhound's nose for sniffing these guys (guy) out. Consider me a grunt in your army, as long as you don't pronounce it "calvary." By the way, is it too early to get a few days' leave? I need to get to Chicago for a wedding, not a big affair, just something intimate and sexy. Oh crap! What if she looks like Ann Coulter? I might never recover! Rosie O'Donnell I could handle. Kathy Griffin I could handle. But Ann Coulter? I'd probably end up a soprano at the Vatican, or the despised attendant in a seraglio. Oh crap crap! She knows a lawyer. I'm scared! I feel like I'm in the 8th grade, again! Does she like me? Pass this note! Is it normal to get a XXXXX in home room? Does she know why I never tuck in my shirt?

Colonel Roberts,

What the hell would I do with a three-legged horse, anyway?

I was hoping to bring Linda back, but I'm not sure this marriage of intellectual convenience will survive the honeymoon. But, in case it does, I've already ordered a leather basinet for the pride of our loins. "Hey, you can't start the discipline too early." Wise words of my nanny, Mademoiselle de Sade, inventor of the leather diaper. My dad lost the family fortune in that enterprise; leather diapers just never caught on outside of Germany.

I didn't see where Paula suggests that he asked her to write the script. Was that implied?

I write to the story. I don't spend much time worrying about audience and market and all that, and that's probably one reason (of many) that I've never sold a script. However, with BLUE GROUND, I did a Page 1 rewrite based on audience and market.

I don't write other people's ideas on spec. Period. I have enough of my own ideas to keep me busy 'til the day I die. I work on what I consider to be my best story idea.

I just started a new screenplay last week. It's a fantasy, a genre I've never tried before. I haven't followed the advice of the pro's and analyzed the business end of the idea. Why bother? I'm going to write it, anyway! Then, I'll hope it finds a producer who believes it has an audience. While the script goes through that process, I'll be working on my next script.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Bill G,

In response to Terri Dickey's question -- why do some people think you're a "poser" -- I reread all your posts. You do, indeed, have a consistent voice and maybe some of the questions I wondered at were generated by enthusiasm.

So, I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say,

"I'm sorry, Bill G, for any insulting remarks I have made directed at you."

I would rather be made a fool of by ten posers than discourage one serious aspiring writer. From now on, I shall consider you as legitimate as any other poster on this board.

Not that my opinion should affect you one way or the other, but you'll get no more mean-spirited sarcasm from me.

Gadzooks, girl! Couldn't you have waited until the honeymoon? I mean, I already bought the Viagra!

Linda,

The Viagra was for you.

Well, dear, I figured you'd be wearing the pants in the family, and I'd be wearing restraints. According to a dominatrix friend of mine, that's an excellent foundation for a marriage.

I'd look for a different word than "real." The unpicked kids' team is a real team.

Superior post, Don. Great example of affective, audience-targeted writing. Each sentence draws the reader further in, heightens the suspense, yet you never spill the beans. Ya wanna know the story, ya gotta read the screenplay.

When I was graduating from grad school [that clause sucks], Professor Robert Heilman called me into his office and offered to read my query letter for teaching jobs at universities. I handed him a copy, he read it, then said, "I thought you wanted to teach." I was, of course, shattered. He then told me to forget what I wanted, forget the 3-paragraph structure, forget everything I had been taught about writing, and direct every sentence at the reader. Focus on what the reader wants, what will motivate him/her to read the next sentence, and by the end to want to meet me because I would fill a need in that department. I followed his advice and ended up with more interviews than anyone else who was graduating from UW that year. Not because I was the best candidate (far from it), but because I had the best query letter. Resulted in 3 job offers in a tight market. And your query letter is much, much, much, much better than the one I wrote. Different topic, sure, but the same fundamental goal.

Thanks for taking me back to that eye-opening day in the office of a great man of letters who had the magnanimity to share his brilliance with a clueless fool. I carried his lesson with me into the classroom and paid it forward to thousands of Freshman English students.

Terry Frazier

Also, any character who has dialogue gets introduced in all caps. If a character has no dialogue but is significant in the action, he/she would have all caps.

E.g.:

A Fireman breaks down the door and enters the burning building. Another Fireman goes through a window.

But...

A FIREMAN climbs the ladder, crashes through the window, and emerges moments later with Sophie's Baby. The Fireman cradles the Baby under his coat while he slides down the ladder, barely escaping debris from the crumbling wall. Sophie kisses the Fireman when he hands her the Baby.

This Fireman's actions were extraordinary and his role could be considered a "feature" (the actor will be named in the credits), so his first introduction is all caps. If there are two unnamed but significant Firemen, they would be FIREMAN 1 and FIREMAN 2 at initial appearances, but Fireman 1 and Fireman 2 subsequently.

Randy,

Just sharing what I've read in Cole & Haag and Trottier. I've seen a total of one scene shot in a film (DAYS OF THUNDER, scene on the farm with Quaid and what's-his-name and the tractor), so I proclaim my ignorance of how films are produced. Nevertheless, I'm not going to cap and number every fireman at the fire. I'll let the producer and director and costumer decide how many firepersons they want for the scene. I doubt they'll quit reading the script because I've done it that way.

I don't know about those films, but I remember hearing that THE BIG CHILL was rejected more than fifty times before it found a home, and it was co-written by one of television's established writers, Lawrence Kasdan. And here's a piece of useless trivia about TBC -- Kevin Kline met (and later married) Phoebe Cates, who auditioned for the role of Chloe. Meg Tilly got that role. And TBC was filmed in Beaufort, SC, at the same house used for THE GREAT SANTINI.

Last year, I got an Honorable Mention. I don't remember the score, but it did have dozens of carnivorous cute little baby plesiosaurs and a scruffy three-legged dog named Pirate. Two plesiosaurs tore Pirate to shreds while it yipped and squealed in agony, then they ate a sarcastic Eskimo. It's a really fun story.

I'm with Paula on this. The "deal" they're offering you is like a free option, which is also a bad idea. If you owned a patent for a new product, would you give a corporation full rights to that patent with a promise of future revenue IF they went ahead with production? What if they don't produce for ten years? What if they never produce? You're screwed.

It comes down to this: if they don't have the money to option or purchase the screenplay, they don't have the money to produce it.

CONGRATULATIONS, LINDA! Way to go! At last, someone beaks out of the pack and finishes the race in first place. This should be happening more often!

When you get back, tell us all about the premiere.

Terry

I just watched the trailer. It looks great, like you're driving an armored HumVee through the crystal shop of gender misconceptions. (That looked better in my head than it does on the screen.) The guys will buy into any excuse to justify their cheating, but it just amounts to group denial. "No, it's not cheating if you're on a plane." That's a leap which requires more than faith, it requires gall. The two women understand what cheating is, no confusion on their part. Anyway, that's what I came away with regarding a theme suggested by the trailer.

I enjoyed the sharp dialogue. Rang true as conversation. I'm looking forward to seeing the film.

LINDA WEISS RULES!

You can copyright and register for about the cost of one pricey contest or two cheap contests. So, I do both. And you don't have to wait three or four months to claim that your script is copyrighted, you just have to wait to get the PA number. You'll get your registration number from the WGA during the process of registering your script online.

After all you've invested in time and creativity, you may as well invest in the best available protection.

What name is on the Wolfman's gravestone?

Yeah, Lon Chaney, Jr. The name on the grave is Talbot. The Wolf Man is Larry Talbot. I believe the grave belongs to his brother.

Can someone tell us how the strike affects sales of scripts to European prodcos? For example, are some European prodcos WGA signatories? Most? None?

I recommend reading Barb Doyon's archived monthly articles (written by her) from her monthly Extreme Screenwriting Newsletter. She's the best at explaining how to incorporate screenwriting techniques into your writing.

It's my understanding that you can and should continue marketing your scripts as though there were no strike (including signatory companies). Producers will be reading scripts when they're no longer producing. You can't sign any contracts with WGA signatory companies, but they can still read your stuff.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. My opinion is based on chatter, not research.

Deb,

Be sure to include the following:

Linda Seger, MAKING A GOOD SCRIPT GREAT, 2nd Edition

Linda Seger, Creating Unforgettable Characters

For people interested in period writing, the following book, now out of print but available from amazon associates, is a kind of historical thesaurus. In the first half, you browse through a period (e.g., "In Use by 1650") and see what terms were in use (categorized "Geography/Places," "Food," "Fashion," "Expletives," etc.), or you can look up specific words in the second half, which then refers you to the first known use in the first half of the book. It's an indispensable resource for period writers. ENGLISH THROUGH THE AGES, by William Brohaugh (Writer's Digest Books, 1998). ISBN 0-89879-655-5

Randy, you wrote: "The Chinese do not have the morals that most North Americans and many Europeans have." What's the basis for your assertion?

Randy, so defensive! It wasn't an attack. Notice there are no hostile words in the question posed. I didn't say, "Where in the world did you....?" I'm not suggesting that the Chinese are good guys or that we're bad guys, or vice versa. I'm just curious as to what forms the basis of your opinion. I always thought of morality as an individual issue, not a nationalistic one. I don't feel personally at risk for the decisions our politicians make and I'd guess (only guess, I have no expertise here or experience in China) that individual Chinese people feel the same way about their government.

I would guess (again, guess) that the average Chinese mother loves her children as much as the average American mother loves her children, and that the average Chinese person lives as moral a life within the context of Chinese culture as we live within the context of our culture. There are good guys and scumbags on both sides of the Pacific.

So, again, what is the basis of your assertion that we are a morally superior people?

This just in:

Hollywood film and TV writers and the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers will return to contract negotiations on Nov. 26th.

I checked out the site, as you suggested. Could not find the ad to which you refer. Perhaps you could offer more details, or, better yet, a link.

It would have helped if you had mentioned the company name -- Le Freak Chic Pictures Inc. -- or that the ad was the first on the page. I kept searching for Silvia, but her name doesn't appear until you find the right ad and click on it.

Can't help but wonder why it's important for them that the writer be 35 or younger. Are the words fresher? Did they work with some geezer who died on the job? They're probably just assholes.

Yes. In fact, it was music that inspired the screenplay I'm working on now.

I don't know how many scripts they receive, but they do what they say they're gonna do and they do it promptly. I finished 3rd with a screenplay and I felt almost like I had been adopted. They knew me by name, responded to emails, gave me a couple of weeks to make revisions before sending out physical copies to about half a dozen prodcos, and they remembered my script months later when another potentially interested prodco was shopping for scripts. TWP gets my wholehearted recommendation.

Paula, that's an awesome idea! I would love to have access to professionals as you suggest. Let's add a musician, a cook, a computer whiz, a teenager (for teen lingo), a pilot, and a weapons expert to the list.

Linda,

What's the latest on BEHAVING BADLY? I checked on IMDb and there's no release info. How'd the premiere go? When, where and how can we see it? Has it led to another project for you? Do you look at your IMDb page every day? (Too bad for you, we all know you're 40.) Is your mom obnoxiously proud of you?

I'd prefer to have good, accurate information, then choose how and whether I'm going to use it.

Linda,

Thanks for the update, and thanks for sharing your experience with us at each stage of the project. For all of us who are still "aspiring," you are a hero for proving that it really can happen.

Have you looked at their Web site? They don't have a track record and don't even claim to. Film Literary Group has a page on IMDbPro, but there isn't a single detail on the page -- no people, no place, no phone, no history. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

And notice that their blurb doesn't say, "Feel free to submit your screenplay for our consideration. If we think it's one of the best scripts we've ever read, we will propose a package...." No, they're apparently an equal opportunity script service, packaging mediocre writers as well as good writers. So what do you think their service is worth if it's available to any script that arrives with a check?

I've submitted to many producers, at their request, and have never had even one ask for a budget breakdown, shooting schedule or casting wishlist. And what would an agent do with crap like that? She'd throw it away. Producers want to see one or more of the following three things:

1. A tantalizing logline. 2. A synopsis which outlines the major plot points, hits the emotional highs and lows of the story, and reveals the character arc. 3. A great original, produceable screenplay with commercial appeal.

Let the producer do the packaging -- that's her job. Spend your money (much less than $700) on script notes from Script Savvy and from Barb Doyon at Extreme Screenplay, then make the revisions you agree with. www.scriptsavvy.net/page/page/3539730.htm www.xtremescreenwriting.com

That's my opinion. Then again, I've never sold a screenplay.

From all I've read, I think the AMPTP hopes to take back more than it gives up. Hang tough, WGA!

Andrew,

If you're going to judge the morals of Chinese society by what you see in a rural farmers' market, then, to be fair, you should judge American morals by what you see on a visit to Michael Vick's estate.

Michele,

Let me quote you: "It would be ridiculous for me to condemn hunting, in between bites of my Quarter-Pounder. If God didn’t want us to eat animals, He wouldn’t have made them so juicy and delicious." Then, she peels off the pickles, the lettuce, the tomatoes, the bun, holds the nearly raw meat in her fingers and bites into it, making a show of savoring the dead flesh while red juice drips off her chin. Randy gnaws on his neurotically-peeled carrot stick in disgust.

C'mon, guys, we have drama! And comedy! Vegan Randy versus bloodthirsty Michele. Everything else in their relationship is going swimmingly, but the food issue threatens to drive a cheese wedge between them. But then, after a visit to a slaughter house, Michele can no longer stomach even the idea of biting into meat, so she turns vegan. Now, they're on a path to wedded bliss, until Randy gets bitten by a vampire. Now, he can no longer stomach to idea of biting into vegetable matter. Oh, the irony!

Randy,

I don't hate America. But I do hate that we keep making wrong choices and that we are squandering opportunities to live up to the ideals which we claim to hold dear to our hearts.

For example, the number of people living in poverty in the U.S. steadily grows while the filthy rich get obscenely rich. In China, rural poverty has been reduced from 40 percent to 5 percent since 1978, when the gov't initiated programs to assist rural farmers. And I don't recall any wars the Chinese have started in the last century, but we started two wars in the last fifty years, costing the lives of up to three million innocent civilians in Southeast Asia and a million innocent civilians in Iraq. Both were wars of choice and both were half a planet away, against countries which posed no threat whatsoever to us. In the U.S., the second most lucrative criminal activity is human trafficking, second only to drug trafficking. We produce most of the world's pornography and we are the leading arms supplier to the world. So, though there are many things wonderful about America, I'm not going to stick my head up my ass and ignore the tragic hypocrisies of our words versus our deeds.

I think Randy thinks I hate him. Or dislike him. I do argue with him a lot on this board on political issues, but that doesn't mean I hate him. I certainly don't want to eat a rattlesnake scramble with him at breakfast, but that doesn't mean I hate him. So, in the spirit of the season, I'm going to list three things I like about Randy:

1. Energy. The guy has an abundance of energy, like a seventeen-year-old virgin in a Laredo brothel. Whether he's pursuing other people's money to make one of his scripts into a movie or ferreting out posers on this board, he goes after it with an energy and confidence you just have to admire, if not envy. Like Brandan Fraser in THE MUMMY, face-first into a hail of bullets.

2. Integrity. I don't agree with some of what he says, but I like that he says what he thinks and he doesn't care whether you like it or not. That makes him unfit to be a politician, obviously.

3. Optimism. It's refreshing to see someone who is driven by unflagging optimism. I'm a cynic myself, always whining about my glass being half empty. If Randy's glass is half full, he just grabs a bottle of Wild Turkey, takes a long, hard swig, then fills the glass back up. No ice.

Have you looked on eBay?

I use FD and have for years. I love it. The only problem I have with v. 7 is it won't save a pdf to my desktop (I use a Mac). But it does save the pdf to my hard drive. Actually, I think the pdf does save to the desktop but doesn't show as an icon. In case you don't know what a pdf file is, it's an Adobe Acrobat file. Any computer can read a pdf file with Acrobat reader. When my scripts go to producers, they're always pdf files, never Final Draft files.

I've never used Movie Magic, but everyone I know who uses it loves it. So, I advise that you take Heather's generous offer. It really doesn't matter which formatting program you use, what counts is the words and ideas you input into it.

Don't cheat on page ends (in an effort to shorten a too-long script). If you do, it'll come back to haunt you in the end, because you WILL have to make revisions and then your inter-element spacing will be all screwed up. I learned that lesson the hard way.

Instead of spending money on a program, take Heather's offer and spend the money on getting your script read by Barb Doyon at Extreme Screenplay or by the wonderful girls at Script Savvy. I believe that $150 will get you a reading at either service and you'll get honest, helpful feedback. Then you will make some changes.

Randy, are you familiar with Highland Myst Films? The company is privately owned and based in Texas. Maybe someone you could hook up with.

http://www.highlandmyst.com

If you do hook up with them as a result of this post, you owe me a teeshirt.

Darn! I really wanted that teeshirt!

Connie, if you want to contact Mike McG, click on Winning Scripts, then click on SMILERS under comedy or romantic comedy. You'll be provided with an email link. I know Mike and I've read SMILERS, which is a brilliant, witty, fun, produceable comedy. As for the rest of your post, I haven't the vaguest idea what you're talking about. If you're referring to Howard Allen and the Open Screenplay Contest, I can guess at your frustration. I was a finalist in the Contest of Contest Winners and six months after announcing to us by email that we were finalists and the name of the winner, he still hadn't posted the results on his own Web site. And we had hounded him to death! As far as I'm concerned, the semi-famous Script Doctor pissed away his credibility as a contest director. On the plus side, some or most (but not all) of us did finally receive the software promised to the finalists. I received FD 7 two weeks after I had purchased the upgrade. Thanks for nothing, Howard. Given my experience with the COCW, I wouldn't waste postage entering anything associated with him again.

Connie, on another topic (Music), you wrote: "I had written 3 of my screenplays and about month later, I fell out of my new house and was almost dead. Two years later, here I am. It was so so so bad all that time. I used to always cry and wish I could kill myself. I'm better now, though." Sorry if this is being morbid or intrusive but I can't help but be curious. What do you mean by "I fell out of my new house"? I won't be offended (not that you should care) if you tell me to mind my own business.

Excuse me, the topic was finding FD, not Music.

You might want to correct the errors in your logline for Counter-Measuures. You not only write "an small village," but you even misspelled your own title! Likely to be a double turnoff for prospective producers. Also, I tried to send this to you privately via the email link provided by moviebytes, but the message came back as "mailbox unavailable." So, if a producer read your logline and had his/her interest piqued, you would never find out. The email bounceback may have been a temporary glitch with your ISP, but if I were you I'd check it out.

Merry Christmas to you, too, Randy, even though you excluded me twice in your message ("For those of you who celebrate Christmas for it's true meaning"/"I admire and respect many of you here on the MB"). And I'm going to go one step further -- Merry Christmas to EVERYONE here on the MBBB, even the posers and Jews and atheists and (like me) agnostics. And here's hoping that we hear of some MBers who join the ranks of our spiritual leader, Linda Weiss, and make some sales or at least acquire agency representation in the NEW YEAR.

The perpetual burr in Randy's saddle, Terry

Hey, Don, notice I said "Merry Christmas to all." I'm not a Christmas basher. :-) And I do believe in Santa Claus.

To provide some justification for Western powers destroying Islamic holy sites, maybe you could include information about the aggressive proliferation of Muslim military bases in the Western Hemisphere, and the Muslim surface fleets poised off our shores, and their nuclear-armed long-range bombers constantly in the air ready to strike at the heart of our continent. And don't forget the fleet of Muslim nuclear submarines, each with 24 missile tubes containing long-range missiles which can be MIRVed with up to 12 independently-targeted warheads (up to 288 warheads per sub).

Hackman wrote:

"Provide justification? These are people who want to stone a woman because she allowed the kids in her class to name a Teddy bear Mohammed. You can't reason with them."

So, that's how you define the Muslim people? With one incident involving an extremist court? And you feel that that justifies destroying Muslim holy sites? And you say THEY can't be reasoned with? You just might be enough of a bigot to work for the State Department under Bush or McCain.

Hackman, I'm saying that this universal condemnation of the Muslim people is bigotry. If we spent as much time and energy examining our own behavior as we do theirs, we might come to the conclusion that we're not exactly "good guys." We mourn the loss of nearly 4,000 American soldiers in Iraq, but does anyone in this country care a fig that at least 1,000,000 innocent Iraqi civilians have died as a result of our invading their country? Most by starvation, exposure, lack of access to medical care, and lack of clean water and a functioning sanitary system. How does the condemnation of one foreigner compare to creating tens of thousands of orphans, tens of thousands of widows, and tens of thousands of widowers? Actually, those numbers are probably in the hundreds of thousands, not tens of thousands. 250 Iraqi civilian deaths for each American death, but how many Americans know that, or, if they do know, even care?

From all I've heard on the news and read on the net, it appears that the Muslims have made one demand -- "Get your armed forces out of our part of the world." When you consider that they have not a single military base in our hemisphere and hardly a nuclear weapon between them, yet we have dozens of fully established military bases all over the Middle East, naval fleets in their waters, and hundreds of nuclear warheads within a few miles of their borders, it looks like a gross double standard to me.

When Bush II was inaugurated, we were paying $24 per barrel for crude oil. We paid more for bottled water! Now, oil is $96 per barrel, and we're still paying more for some brands of bottled water. If I were an Arab, I'd resent that our only exportable resource was being sold off so cheaply, especially when every known oil reserve in the Middle East has now peaked. And the U.S. accounts for 25 percent of the world's energy consumption, even though we represent less than 5 percent of the world's population. That's immoral behavior on our part. We need to get our own act in order.

"Go off meds." Come on, Hackman, how old is that joke?

I do think I misconstrued your argument. You're probably condemning only the extremists. I've been on edge ever since I heard John McCain say, in a Republican debate, that the only reason we lost the war in Vietnam was that American public opinion turned against the war. If we elect another Republican president, I'm gonna have to find another planet to move to. Not that a Democratic president would be more than a 2 percent improvement. They're all politicians, meaning bottom-feeding scum. I think we should take all the politicians, grind them up and feed them to lawyers. At least that would leave a bad taste in lawyers' mouths.

So, M. Hackman, my apologies for misconstruing what you wrote. Par for the course for me, lately.

Thanks, Michele. My family would never have let me off so easily. And I redouble my apology. I seem to have a hair trigger these days. I resolve every day to avoid politics altogether, to save my blood pressure for something fun, like sex and cigarettes, but I end up with politics and cigarettes and no sex. So sad.

D. Jay, it's not the Muslims who have mercenaries gunning down innocent civilians in Baghdad, either. Unless all Americans are to be judged by the actions of a few Blackwater thugs, all Muslims shouldn't be condemned for the actions of Muslim extremists.

Randy,

Do you agree with the 2-page length? I recall reading that synopses can be up to 30 pages, but when I'm asked for a synopsis, they usually specify a one-page length. Also, in my experience, contests are more fond of synopses than producers. Anyway, back to the question -- when you're wearing your producer hat, what length do you prefer?

Thanks, D. Jay, but I'll pass. Waterboarding is not my idea of therapy.

You said you were in Vietnam in 1969. In what capacity?

So, D. Jay, I ask you a simple question and you come back with a lame joke instead of an answer? If you really were in Vietnam in 1969, what were you doing there?

D. Jay, you wrote:

I was there in 1969 and all I know is "we were WAY ahead when I left".

I mistook you to mean that you were there in 1969, as your post asserted.

D. Jay, I want an explanation for what you wrote. Here it is, copied from your post exactly as it appeared:

BTW Terry, with the sincere hope that this doesn't aggravate further your symptoms, McCain is right--we wouldn't have lost in Viet Nam if we had not lost the public support.

I was there in 1969 and all I know is "we were WAY ahead when I left".

You assert that you were there, and you appear to be offering that as support for your statement that McCain was right. If you weren't there, what makes you an expert on Vietnam?

I looked at your profile. You describe yourself as a "shephard." You're such a high-powered intellect that you can't even spell your own occupation? You spend your time with sheep and that makes you an expert on war, Iraq, and Vietnam?

And why don't you give up on the meds crap? That joke is older and more tired than the hemorrhoids on a retired bus driver's ass.

Like everyone on the braindead flagwaving right, you ignore facts when they're presented. Ron has listed dozens of Web sites where you could educate yourself, but you're comfortable in your ignorance and wouldn't know what to do with facts even if you knew what they were. Not one of you pro-warmongers has addressed the issue I raised dozens of posts ago -- the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians as a result of our invasion of their country. No one has argued that Saddam was less than a brutal tyrant. So, please explain how Saddam's brutality against his own people justified our invasion of Iraq, which had NO CONNECTION WITH THE 9/11 ATTACKS ON AMERICA.

So, now you were in Vietnam, but won't name the unit or branch of service or your MOS or anything else.

You also wrote, and this is copied from your post:

And Terry...I never said I was in Viet Nam!

So, make up your mind. Are you lying about being there, or lying about not being there?

By the way, jerkoff, Stephen Ambrose wrote BAND OF BROTHERS. That "finest fighting force" he referred to was the 101st Airborne, an Army unit, you idiot. I know because I was in the 2nd 502 of the 101st Airborne in Vietnam in 1967. I was a grunt in combat in the Central Highlands and in the I Corps, near Chu Lai, where I was blown up by an enemy mortar and suffered 4 amputations as a result. So, don't throw your fake service credentials at me, you lying piece or crap.

D. Jay,

My advice, as a real veteran, to you: Don't claim to be a vet if you're not. No one thinks it's funny. And you didn't post it as levity. You made a statement about Vietnam and then claimed to have been there and listed a year and offered your expert opinion. That's not levity, that's bullshit.

As far as my unemployability goes: I came back from Vietnam, got a Ph. D from the University of Washington, taught at the university level for 22 years, retired and became managing editor of a small press in South Carolina, resigned from that job to write full time. I was also a professionally-sponsored sailplane racing pilot for a decade (the 1980s), flew my glider from San Diego to Charlotte, NC, to deliver the start flag for a NASCAR race in 1988, represented a medical company at conventions throughout the U.S. and one in Sweden, have written published articles on Chaucer, Richard Brinsley Sheridan, and astronomy. So, if that's your idea of unemployability, start sending me your Social Security Disability checks.

I dealt with my PTSD in the late 80s when I started teaching a course called "The Vietnam Experience," which filled the auditorium every semester I taught it. It took me three years to get the ghosts out of the closet, but I've been fine ever since and never fell into alcoholism, drug abuse, or spousal abuse, as is often the case. But my experience tells me that hundreds of thousands of Iraq veterans are going to be dealing with it in the decades to come. Not a high price to pay for armchair warriors, only for the real warriors and their families.

As far as anger goes, yeah, I'm angry, angry at my fellow citizens for sitting around playing video games while the Bush Administration does more damage to this country than Osama Bin Laden ever imagined doing, even in his fondest dreams. Never mind the real damage, which is to the Constitution, here's something for you "conservatives" to chew on -- add up all the debt accumulated by all the administrations from Washington through Clinton and it's less than the debt accumulated by the Bush Administration in his first six years, and that's with Republicans in control of the Executive and both branches of Congress. Add up our military budget and the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the Homeland Security budget and it's one and a half times more than all the military spending of all the other countries on the planet.

Our own government estimates that the war in Iraq will end up costing us over a trillion dollars. For that amount of money, we could have sent $10,000 each to 10,000,000 Iraqi families, or we could have reduced our debt by a trillion dollars, or we could have secured our chemical plants, power plants, ports, and airports and had money left over to repair our decaying infrastructure. And no one would have died. But you just keep waving your little 3x5-inch flag with your head stuck so far up your ass that you can see the back of your teeth.

ANNOUNCEMENT, for those who care.

D. Jay and I have made up, privately. I would like to point out that we both served in Vietnam and we both have opinions on the subject. And I believe we have agreed not to argue politics on this board, anymore.

My apologies to everyone. I keep saying that this board should be about screenwriting, then I fall into these assinine rants, which I know don't change anyone's mind, rather they just raise my blood pressure and reveal what an opinionated jerk I am.

To D. Jay: Semper Fi! To Ron: You're my oracle! To Paula: Do you have an unmarried older sister?

Paula,

Yes, you should feel insulted. I probably should have said "grandmother."

Paula, I don't write books, only screenplays. I'm in the revise-and-polish phase of my latest screenplay. No plans for a book unless I end up on death row with a long queue ahead of me.

Online entry is a plus.

When an agent is ready for you.

Maybe it was the words "WILL WRITE FOR FOOD" on your sweatshirt that gave you away.

Excuse me, guys, but how can they know they have a script in the Blue Cat finals when the deadline isn't until March 3rd? I know I'm missing something here. What is it? I promise to say, "Duh!" after you enlighten me.

Thanks, Jean. As I promised -- "Duh!"

Late deadline is April 1.

By issues, do you mean to include neuroses and obsessions, or just out-and-out insanity?

Michele, you're obviously right. My duh! (and not my first)

Jackie Earle Haley as Ronnie the pedophile in LITTLE CHILDREN. Marvelous performance based on a brilliant script based on a book I didn't read.

Uh oh, Thomas. You just stepped on a Texas rattler.

Connie,

You're not stupid and no one I know of is mad at you. Although I don't see eye-to-eye with you about the Bush family, I respect and admire you for fighting your way back from that devastating accident. Says a lot about the power of love, family, and determination, huh?

Thomas is right -- Randy started it with this post on the Writing Action/Thriller Screenplays thread:

"When Ben and Thomas get into a conversation, it's difficult to figure out when is the best time to throw up."

And the point to which Randy was responding so rudely was Thomas' argument that screenwriting books are good for formatting but other than that they stifle creativity -- keep on writing [my paraphrasing]. Thomas is saying that we shouldn't allow the "experts" to steer our imaginations into a rut. You might not agree with Thomas, but it's a serious argument, not bullshit. And Thomas does have about a dozen scripts listed, which is a helluvah lot of writing! He does what he says.

So, while I don't condone the schoolyard fight response of Thomas, I must admit I've done that myself a few times on this board (and got my eye blackened in the scuffle).

So, Thomas and Randy, how about shaking hands and let's get back to screenwriting issues. By the way, Thomas, Randy is for real, not a poser. And, Randy, Thomas walks his talk.

Anyone have naked pictures of Paula they'd like to swap?

Ben, the answer is "No." The only guarantee of a screenwriting job is to be the spoiled son or daughter of a studio head. A degree in cinematic arts from USC or NYU would probably help, mainly from the contacts one would make, which can get you over the biggest hurdle -- getting someone in a position of influence to read your work.

But, my recommendation is to wait until you read the advice of someone far more knowledgeable. You'll recognize it when it's posted. It ain't me, that's for sure.

I'm right there with Jean, Connie. Keep up the good fight. You've made amazing progress just in the few months I've known you! We're all in your corner and there's no throwing in the towel.

Love, Terry

I use Final Draft and love it.

Rob,

According to IMDbPro, you have one screenwriting credit as a co-writer on a movie in pre-production, and another writer provided the story. Seems to me like pretty slim credentials for the author of a how-to book on screenwriting. Why don't you tell us a little more about yourself and about your book if you want us to purchase your wisdom. For example, you might explain the use of the word "formula" in your title. That's a word which, when used to describe a script or film, isn't complimentary. But, perhaps your book attacks formula. I don't know, because you spend more time hyping yourself and your book than telling us what it's about. How does your book differ from the trite rehashing of screenwriting theory in other books? You may not like Blake Snyder's book, but he does have a pretty impressive track record to back up his words.

Make your case, Rob.

What Paula wrote.

"And oh, the questions about the book? BUY THE F*CKING BOOK and you'll find out! What? ten bucks too much for you cheapskates?"

Pretty weak logline, Rob, for a guy with paper-thin credentials. You could at least address my question about your use of the word "Formula" in your title. I think that's a pretty legitimate question. And I'm not as concerned about wasting my money as wasting my time.

I didn't disrespect the man, Michele. I simply asked him to tell us a little more about his book. He answered, "Just buy the f*cking thing, you cheapskate," or words to that effect. Pardon the f*ck out of me for asking you to tell us more about your book, Rob.

Ben, about dramatic irony.

The classic example is "The Gift of the Magi," in which the husband pawns his watch to buy his wife combs for her beautiful hair, and she cuts off and sells her hair to buy him a chain for his watch, for Xmas. (See Wikipedia)

A modern example is in LITTLE CHILDREN, where Larry, a disgraced former police officer who accidentally shot a teenager with a toy gun in a mall, misses his job so he tries to atone for his mistake and make the community safer by harassing Ronnie, a registered sex offender who spent two years in prison for indecent exposure. As audience, we recognize that Larry's methods are not making the community safer nor more peaceful, and his actions lead to the heart-attack death of Ronnie's mother and to Ronnie's self-mutilation. Then, when Larry finds Ronnie bleeding to death at the playground, he saves his life.

Another modern example is CRASH, which employs an additional form or irony -- the irony of betrayal. In irony of betrayal, the author leads the reader (or audience) to make a misjudgment. In watching the actions and hearing the words of Matt Dillon's character, we draw the natural conclusion that he's a racial bigot, but he risks his life to save a black woman from a burning car. In that moment, we realize that, although he is indeed a racial bigot, we have judged him too harshly. Each of the interwoven stories in the film reveals that racial bigotry is a complex human issue and that even the victims of racial bigotry are flawed by their own bigotry against some other race or class. The goal of the film, I believe, is to reveal the racial and class bigotry of the audience, more than that of the characters of the story.

Here's the original thread on Rob's book, about which he's only willing to tell us the hype.

Here's a review of Rob's new book from Amazon.com:

Comprehensive, practical, and essential reading, January 6, 2008 By Midwest Book Review (Oregon, WI USA)

When it comes to creating scripts for films and television, professional scriptwriter Rob Tobin's maxim is that 'writing well isn't just a goal, it's a responsibility'. That attitude comes across loud and clear in "The Screenwriting Formula: Why It Works And How To Use It", his deftly written and thoroughly 'user friendly' instruction guide for aspiring screenwriters regardless of the genre they are working in. "The Screenwriting Formula" is nicely organized into three main sections: The Seven Elements (the hero, the flow, enabling circumstances, the opponent, the hero's ally, the life-changing event, jeopardy, combining story elements); The Structure (prologue, act one, act two: parts one and two, act three); The Big Picture (the logline, the outline, high-concept and low-concept stories, a titanic undertaking). Enhanced with the inclusion of two germane appendices (Prewriting Techniques and Adapting Novels to the Screen), "The Screenwriting Formula" is comprehensive, practical, and essential reading for anyone hoping to successful write a screenplay that will measure up to professional standards and commercial viability.

CONGRATULATIONS, CONNIE! I'm happy for you and proud of you. Keep up the good fight and 'do not go quietly into that good night.' The best is yet ahead!

Forever your pal, Terry

Glad to have you back, Alexis.

Thanks, Michele. It's good to hear that Tobin's book isn't just a rehash of the ideas we've already read. Now, I'll have to eat my words and buy a copy!

In The Writers Place Poetry Contest:

1st Place goes to Connie Tonsgard — Tapestry

CONGRATULATIONS to Connie! We're proud of you, girl!

Terry

This should take you to Connie's winning poem, "Tapestry":

http://www.acsalaska.net/~akaconsuelo/tapestry.html

http://www.vanityfair.com/ontheweb/blogs/daily/2008/04/the-screenwrite.html

I don't recall ever hearing this "rule" about never ending a scene on a line of dialogue, and it sounds ridiculous to me. I do recall, however, hearing that you shouldn't begin a scene with dialogue, as you have to establish a character's presence before having him/her speak. But even that "rule" can be broken.

Connie, I got the news in an email from TWP. And you're right, I don't write poetry.

Keep on writin' 'n fightin', Connie!

Oh, Randy, Randy, Randy! You're so easily provoked! If you have a wife or girlfriend, I'll bet she plays you like a fiddle. A little rain falls and you act like a cat that's been tied up in a sack and thrown into a river. Posers are everywhere. Why should the MBBB be any different? If you ignore them, they disappear.

Thomas,

I just checked eight screenplays by professional screenwriters. Every one of them violates your teacher's rule repeatedly. So, it appears to me that either you and your brother misremember what your screenwriting teacher said, or this is a rule your screenwriting teacher made up, a rule which is not observed by the people who actually sell screenplays. That means that it is not a rule, it is a stylistic choice. And I have yet to hear any logic or justification for this choice other than "my unnamed teacher at my unnamed school said so" (my paraphrase).

In other words, you can choose to make this stylistic choice, but you are handcuffing yourself with an arbitrary rule which has no logic and which is not used by professional screenwriters.

Lou, even if you sign an option for no compensation, an option is an option and disqualifies the script for most, but not all, contests. A few contests accept optioned screenplays (or used to). Just read the rules carefully and, if necessary, ask the contest coordinator.

Some contests state a limit for earnings from screenwriting, but most don't permit an optioned screenplay to compete (regardless of the amount) and some won't accept a screenplay which has ever been optioned (regardless of the amount).

Do your research on any person or company requesting your script. Check the IMBd for a track record. Check their Web site, if they have one, and try to confirm their claims. If they say they're a new company, ask for their track record before they formed the company. If they say they represent X, Y, and Z, check and see whether X, Y, and Z are actively working.

I have had contacts from some very suspicious people. One woman claimed she was the head of acquisitions for one company. Her name seemed familiar so I looked back in my old emails and she had contacted me before, as the head of something-or-other at a different company, but the address was the same. I checked IMDbPro and found she was not listed anywhere as anything. When I emailed her to clarify who she was, she didn't answer.

I also know of two guys, operating separately, who are optioning scripts left and right. One now represents at least half a dozen people but still has no track record. The other has a track record, but ties up scripts that nothing ever happens to, as far as I can tell.

This is also important because, once your script has been optioned, even if it's for no money, it becomes ineligible for some contests.

The bottom line -- do your research before you sign anything.

For the record, it's Sydney Pollack.

OUT OF AFRICA was, indeed, great, and he deserved the Oscar he won for that film, but my favorite was TOOTSIE (1982) with Dustin Hoffman and an all-star cast, including Pollack himself as Tootsie's agent. Pollack was also one of Hollywood's most prolific producers. According to the IMDb, he was involved in 65 films and 35 TV shows in his 50-year career.

"Ben,"

Your argument about JEALOUSY suggests that readers prefer to read crap rather than compelling scripts, so that they can feel superior to the writers they're reading. If they read a great script they trash it out of jealousy? If you believe that, you need to scoop your brain out of your head and flush it because it's producing logic on the same (apparent) level as your scripts.

If you want better comments from readers, write better scripts.

One more "if" -- if you have written scripts that have placed in contests, tell us the names and years of the contests and the titles of the scripts. Given the poor writing which characterizes your posts, I need proof to believe you've ever placed a script in any contest. Do this not for me but for yourself, so that you can earn a little respect on this BB.

By the way, I don't always agree with the comments and coverage I get and I never agree with every comment or suggestion from any reader, but I have never suspected jealousy as a motive to trash my writing. The 20/20 contest readers completely trashed ROCHESTER and BLUE GROUND. Both have won contests and placed high in numerous contests, and both have made the cut in the Nicholl, so I attributed the trashing to either incompetent readers or an agenda into which my scripts did not fit. I'd bet my left nut that jealousy never figured into it.

Scripts can be converted from pdf if you have the right Adobe software.

If he has no employees, does he really have the means to produce a film? Does he have a track record? Sounds like a producer-wannabe to me.

Gene,

Perhaps you should reread Michele's early posts on this thread. They are quite respectful and treat Ben and the topic with respect. Things got heated after Ben made claims he wasn't willing to back up because he's a poser, an admitted poser. Anyone can get on this board and claim wins in contests, but if you're going to claim them you should be able to name them. For some mysterious reason, Ben can't reveal his true identity to other screenwriters. Gee, maybe he's really Terry Gilliam and he'll lose his pirate credentials if he's caught posting on the MBBB. Here's my guess for why Ben can't reveal his true identity -- he hasn't won any contests and may not even have written any screenplays. If he really did receive sexist anti-lesbian coverage, why doesn't he post a paragraph or two of it? Is he afraid he'll blow his close relationship with the person who he claims didn't like his script anyway? The thing is, none of it makes sense. We all gave Ben the benefit of the doubt from the beginning, and we do our best to nurture newbies, but this has been a bunch of crap and a waste of everyone's time.

I'm with you, Shell, even though I'm not and have never been one of the popular clique.

And, Ben, if you received the sexist, anti-lesbian coverage you claim to have received, did it come from a contest or from a professional reader? If it came from a contest, maybe you shouldn't have sent a lesbian-themed story to some contest seeking salubrious Christian stories intended for John Hagee Youth Ministries. If it came from a professional reader, you should have followed our advice and sent it to Barb Doyon or the girls at Feeding Frenzy.

Janet Hogate, huh? Shouldn't that be Janet Lanyc?

Dean,

Michele was a finalist in the 2003 Nicholl Fellowships. Why would she subsequently enter contests under the pseudonym of the Langlais brothers?

Janet,

I find it hard to accept your idea that readers who score your screenplay low are racially biased. Hollywood is rife with interracial romances and with dramas about racism. Interracial romances are also common on television. While you may have the misfortune of getting a racially biased reader, just as you may get a reader who dislikes a particular genre, it's far more probable that they just don't like your writing. (of course, that doesn't make them right.) The same reasoning applies to Ben's lesbian-themed script. Hollywood has too many lesbian stories to even list, and gay and lesbian shows are very popular on TV. WILL & GRACE was a huge hit, but not because of its gay theme, rather because of the brilliant comedy writing. So for Ben to claim that his script is rejected because of anti-lesbian bias is equivalent to saying that American TV viewers don't like game shows. It borders on the absurd.

You said that one reader ranked your script low in originality. Perhaps the reader felt that the way you handled the interracial relationship was not original. Is there anything new in how the couple works out their problems? The fact that the couple is interracial and that they dance in a variety of styles is certainly not new in itself (e.g., SAVE THE LAST DANCE, with Julia Stiles and Sean Patrick Thomas).

I think the hardest thing to do in screenwriting is to look at your own script with a truly critical eye. We get so close to our own stories and characters that we have trouble imagining a different way of writing the script. I suffer this writer's myopia along with everyone else. That doesn't mean we have to accept every comment as gospel, but it does mean that, if we are to improve our scripts, we have to be open to criticism and willing to make adjustments when they're warranted. That's the second hardest thing to do in screenwriting -- sorting out the useful comments from the crap.

Send your script to Barb Doyon and see what she says. Or to the girls at Feeding Frenzy.

Eva Peel used to be (and perhaps still is) a line producer in Hollywood. She also had a script listing service, like InkTip but pre-internet, in the 90s. She did some work with New Line.

I have a friend who knows her. I'll see if he can find out whether she's still working and still doing pitch sessions.

Janet,

You wrote, addressing me: "... you were the first one to think my romance between a cowboy and black ministers daughter was so far out there it had to be a joke."

Excuse me, but I never said that or anything like it. Please click on the "Display all messages by this author" link (below) and find in any post where I ever said anything like that.

By the way, putting together a white cowboy and a black minister's daughter in a romance doesn't constitute originality. Originality is found in the story about them, what internal and external conflicts develop and how they deal with them, and how they are changed by the experience. Do they end up together (comedy), apart (drama), or dead (tragedy)? Do we care about the characters? Does the story have a value which is greater than the sum of its parts? Your set-up has great potential, but you haven't told us any of the story beyond that. For all I know, your script could be the next GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER? or it could be a cheap rehashing of JUNGLE FEVER in a Texas road house. I haven't heard enough about your story to hazard a guess, but I sincerely hope for the former. It makes me feel good (and, I admit, hopeful for myself) when my fellow pre-professional screenwriters succeed.

Janet,

I agree, and I believe you should never let coverage stop you. (I don't, or I would have quit writing long ago.) Readers are sometimes arrogant, sloppy, disinterested, or just plain wrong. All criticism has to be looked at with a critical eye. Use the comments which ring true, toss the rest.

Orlanda,

You won't be seeing ROCHESTER at all this year. I entered only one contest, the Nicholl, with ROCHESTER and my new screenplay, which I haven't even sent to the girls, yet. (The "girls" = Feeding Frenzy, and Barb Doyon.) So, we'd do best to keep our eyes out for Connie's scripts, which are performing amazingly on the contest circuit. She's racking up some pretty impressive credentials. Kudos to you, Connie!

Eva Peel is no longer doing the pitch sessions, according to my friend who knows her personally.

BTW, it's terry with a "y," not an "i."

(40ish)

Connie's a lady. I'm the lesser gender.

I think that sci-fi gets short shrift in some contests because it's usually much more expensive to produce. A lot of contests are designed to find low-budget scripts that can be produced. In horror, you find an abandoned factory, throw in five teenagers and a guy with a deformed face and you have a film. Sci-fi is rarely that cheap to produce. There's often a spaceship, space suits, space scenes, alien creatures, alien landscape, etc. I realize that that is not always true. Some sci-fi takes place on Earth and sci-fi doesn't always require alien effects, etc. THE INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS could have been done on a low budget.

My sci-fi screenplay, BLUE GROUND, takes place on Earth but would be very expensive to produce because it would require lots of CGI. It has racked up an impressive contest record, including a win and making the cut in the Nicholl, but it has done miserably in contests which separate genres. But, what can you do? You get an idea, you write it, and you hope someone likes it. Then, while it's being trashed by contest readers, you work on the next one.

The end punctuation goes outside the qoutations marks if you're British or if the punctuation isn't part of the quoted sentence.

What drives me crazy is hearing people pronounce "nuclear" nuke-u-lar and "realtor" re-la-tor.

Dean,

How is it that people who use good grammar and proper punctuation probably write worse than you? Using good grammar and proper punctuation doesn't mean your dialogue has to be the queen's English.

Let's say you use bad grammar and you mispunctuate your lines of description/action. Do you think that makes you creative? Are you absolutely certain that some producers won't think you're simply ignorant?

When did correct spelling, grammar and punctuation become a drawback in screenwriting?

No, Dean, it's "If I were...." It's the subjunctive case, so you use "were," not "was."

Also, it's "grammar," not "grammer."

"If I were president, I would end the war." That's subjunctive, not past subjunctive. And just because you think grammar is passé doesn't mean everyone else does. Including young people.

It strikes me as odd that a person who aspires to work as a professional writer would hold the rules and conventions of writing in such low regard. It's like saying you want to be a professional basketball player but you aren't going to bother with learning how to dribble the ball.

There's no need to put either the WGA number or the copyright notice on a script. It's regarded as amateurish.

Maybe your protag needs a save-the-cat moment early in the story, so that we have something to like about him/her from the beginning. If you don't know what I'm talking about, read Blake Snyder's SAVE THE CAT!

I'm not positive about this, because I'm depending on a year's worth of memory, which is risky for me.

I believe Script Pimp requires that you sign an agreement which states that, if your script wins, you must allow them exclusive representation of the script for a period -- a year, I think. This alone would exclude that script and, in some cases, all your scripts, from other contests. I have always chosen not to enter Script Pimp because of this contract. There were other terms I didn't like, too, but I don't recall them.

DISCLAIMER: I may have this wrong, but I'm too lazy to go look up their submission contract, which, if memory still serves, you only see when actually submitting your screenplay. I don't believe their terms are listed in their contest rules and guidelines, only in the actual submission documents.

Good work, Ben! Especially after all the shit we've given you on this BB!

Congratulations, Paula! That's one happy letter, huh!

No joy for me, but Greg noted that I made the "next 100" with my new screenplay.

The Disney Fellowship contest requires that entrants sign and have notarized a letter of agreement in which you agree that if they steal your screenplay and produce it, you are limited to damages of $1,000, and that only if you can prove it in a court of law. And if you take them to court and lose, you pay all their legal expenses in defending against your claim.

Is anyone else troubled by this?

The letter of agreement doesn't refer to what the winners write during their mentorship. It refers to the screenplay entered in the contest.

I've signed releases before. This is the first time I've seen one go so far as to cover them completely even if you can prove the material was stolen from you. I know they're just trying to cover their asses, but this seems extreme, to me.

I'm not sure I understand the metaphor. Is the mouse and the Trojan anything like the gerbil and Richard Gere?

PJ, you were right. They own what you write during the mentorship.

Janet, the Disney contest does not accept "musicals of any kind" (I think that's the wording).

I was going to enter, and I have in the past. This year, I'll be one less entry. Good luck to those of you who do enter. A win could be a career-maker.

By the way, nothing against Disney. I just don't want to sign that draconian contract just to get my script looked at by some lowly contest reader.

You probably won't see a copy of the program contract until they offer you a position.

Janet,

From Disney's feature film contest guidelines:

"Unacceptable materials for feature film include: treatments, outlines, short stories, poems, books, magazine/newspaper articles, audio/video tapes, drawings, or scripts adapted from other material not indicative of writing for film (such as a novel). We do not accept feature animation, musicals of any kind, sequels to motion pictures, or original television pilots."

You might want to check their guidelines for television. I haven't looked there.

A screenwriter friend of mine in LA has convinced me to go ahead and submit to the Disney program.

Martin,

Are you posting on InkTip?

Barb Doyon has a marvelous article on dialogue on her Extreme Screenplay Web site.

Yes, Bobbette, since you don't have actual words to put into dialogue, describe it in action.

However, you can suggest a specific opera and insert the lyrics in dialogue with quotation marks. This gives you an opportunity to select lines and music which touch on a theme of the screenplay.

Or you can suggest, in action, "a Russian opera such as Gergiev's RUSLAN & LYUDMILA, filled with magic, sorcery, and romance." Not a specific opera, but the genre and style.

An old opera won't present copyright problems, unless you want the lyrics in English, in which case the translation/adaptation will likely be under copyright, unless you write your own.

CONGRATULATIONS, PAULA! That's awesome! Now, go over the script with a fine-tooth comb before you start getting requests. And you may want to prepare 1-paragraph, 1/2-page, 1-page, and 2-page synopses. And beef up your logline.

Way to go, girl!

Patrick,

Given the example you provide ("flowery description of pic 1," etc.), I would describe it generically in action. You would use a SERIES OF SHOTS if it's important that we see each specific image. For example, if the shots reveal the identity of the killer, then we need to see each image. But, if you're just showing that she did her homework, specific shots aren't required. Also, a SERIES OF SHOTS usually has a theme; e.g.:

SERIES OF SHOTS -- SARAH DRIVES TO THE BEACH

A) Sarah hotwires John's Jeep.

B) Sarah peels out. John rushes onto the porch and watches her drive away.

C) Sarah weaves in and out of traffic.

D) Sarah speeds past a Cop in a school zone.

A series of shots, like this, is used to tell an important story in short form. You get to avoid wasting space with lots of sluglines. In the example I made up above, perhaps Sarah has been pretending that she can't drive, but now we see that she has experience stealing cars as well as driving them like a race car driver. If getting to the beach were routine, we wouldn't need the series of shots.

There's a big difference between a film and a script. Be sure you don't confuse the reader.

Blake Snyder explains "high concept" in his book SAVE THE CAT.

Here's how I would do it:

FLASHBACK - MOMENTS EARLIER

Blah blah blah.

BACK TO SCENE

Keep it lean. And forget the underline.

Joseph's right.

INT. AUDREY'S HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - DAY

BEDROOM

NURSERY

INT. BILL'S HOUSE - LIVING ROOM - DAY

BEDROOM

BATHROOM

There'll be no confusion about which house because the master slugline sets the scene. This style creates a lot of white space, which is good.

I just got an email from a guy named "Adam" who claims all kinds of professional experience in Hollywood. But he doesn't even give his last name! No way to check out his claims, to see if he's listed on IMDb, etc. Why in the world would someone risk their money on a complete unknown when we have Barb Doyon at Extreme Screenplay and the girls at Script Savvy available? At least they're known and proven entities.

Yeah, Ben, my historical romance ROCHESTER would be very R, for nudity, sex and language. Many historical films are R-rated, as they usually involve nudity. DANGEROUS LIAISONS, e.g., and I'd guess that SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE, AMADEUS, STAGE BEAUTY, RESTORATION (I don't like that one) and others are R as they all have nudity and usually some rough language.

Glenn Close's performance in DANGEROUS LIAISONS is my favorite film performance by a female. She should have won an Oscar. F. Murray Abraham's performance in AMADEUS is my favorite film performance by a male.

ROCHESTER is treading water. Last year, it received a thumbs up from an exec, but his boss shot it down citing the "dismal [box office] performance" of THE LIBERTINE (which is also about the infamous Earl of Rochester). Even Johnny Depp couldn't pull that shitty script out of the crapper.

Historical scripts are very hard to sell. Some production companies specifically rule them out. They aren't cheap to produce and they rarely make money.

Has anyone figured out who this guy (assuming it's a guy) is?

I'm just itching to work with a guy who hides his identity. Of course, I'll believe anything he tells me on the phone and I'll email all my scripts to him right away because I'm a drooling idiot.

I mislabeled Adam. He's a "production company development executive." But the service he's selling through the email is that of script consultant. He'll read your script and tell you how to fix it. I'm not recommending him, but I know I wouldn't trust my thousands of hours of work with someone who hides his name, nor to anyone without a verifiable track record. But, decide for yourself. Here's his email pitch and address:

Dear Screenwriter Who Is Probably Frustrated Finding Representation and Honest Feeback:

There are lots of companies selling screen writing classes, pitch fests (where they claim you're talking to executives when really its an assistant or an unpaid intern), useless contests (which generate a suspicious amount of "semi finalists"), and companies that sell coverages (and from what I've seen, many just sell "good coverage") . Most of these services are run by washed up nobodies and even if they are adept at providing notes, they can't follow through to get your work seen by major Hollywood players.

I'm different. I'm a production company development executive, and have worked and consulted for A-list actors and a director, and am currently reading for an award winning major studio producer as well as a legendary Oscar winning actor. I'm 30 years old and read almost everything that sells to studios. I know fresh hot material and writing talent when I see it and am incredibly skilled at providing script analysis and career guidance.

If you can't seem to get a break its probably because there's something not clicking. If you have gotten responses like "your material isn't for us at this time" "we aren't taking on new clients now" or "our slate is full" they are flat out passing on your work. Maybe you're not getting any responses at all. But that doesnt have to happen again, next time when you get your shot, you'll be ready with my help. Every consultation is different--our discussion completely revolves around what YOU need to learn in order to fix the script you're working on or to avoid the same mistakes on future screenplays. And if you are a REAL undiscovered talent just waiting to get your script into the right hands, then you've found me. I'LL WAIVE OUR AGREED UPON FEE and get you represented at a top agency or literary managment within the week. I have strong relationships at every agency and studio and believe me, they are desperate to find true emerging talent with finished marketable screenplays.

Stop wondering if your material is good enough and why you cant find an agent even though you've won a contest, optioned a script, or worked with a producer. I'll tell you what the problems are and how to fix them. TH And unlike other consultants, I stay in contact with my clients to provide feedback on new concepts before they spend a thousand hours writing another screenplay. You spend so much time writing your script, get the professional feedback you've been waiting for and find out if it is REALLY ready to hit the market, and if not, how to get it ready to go.

If you are interested in learning more about my consulting, you can email me your phone number and what times are best to reach you and I will give you a call to discuss my fees and answer any questions. After we speak, I promise you will be impressed by my references and employment history (which you can verify) and will quickly recognize that I am for real, and that I can help.

I am excited to help you move your screen writing career to the next level and look forward to speaking with you soon.

laexecguy2008@gmail.com

Excellent contest. I recommend entering with feedback ($55) or full analysis ($95). The feedback I got was excellent and very helpful. (Hey, they actually read the whole screenplay!)

I didn't win, but they remembered my script and recommended it to several prodcos over the next several months. Folks, that's impressive!

CONGRATULATIONS, STEVE! Sounds like a genuine breakthrough! Keep us posted on your experience as these projects develop.

Matt,

I concur with Jean -- check out Barb Doyon at Extreme Screenplay, and be sure to buy AND READ her eBook. She's the best how-to writer on screenwriting that I've found. Also, her script reviews are excellent, and I recommend the basic review plus the phone call, if you can afford it.

Other contests: Script Savvy and Writer's Place are good contests, and Script Savvy includes some feedback with your contest entry fee, and those girls are savvy! Also, try a contest or two that have awards for a variety of genres; that cuts the number you're competing against and shows you how your script fares in it's immediate family.

But, do the script consultation BEFORE throwing your script at the contests, because you are sure to want to make some changes. Barb can usually service a script in about 10 days to 2 weeks.

I agree with Joseph that you should get other writers' comments, etc., but you can get Barb's review for $75, which is only slightly more than the entry fee for most contests. Very professional and well worth the money.

Would anyone care to give me their opinion on this logline? I've been told to keep it down to 30 words maximum. This one is 31 words without using the two words I put in brackets. Does anyone think I need to keep those two words or leave them out to keep it shorter? -- Three years after mourning his girlfriend, Randy's father forces him to start dating (again). (Now) Randy must be courageous to profess his love for a girl he likes or remain miserable and lonely. --

David, you're right to seek help with this logline.

1. The "his" in "his girlfriend" refers not to Randy but to his father. 2. Why would he profess love for a girl he only likes? 3. Why is this girl seen as his last chance for romantic happiness? 4. A logline works best if it's one sentence. 5. Barb Doyon can write loglines for scripts almost instantly. She has a knack for that. 6. When a sentence (in this case logline) doesn't work, try rewriting it using a new subject and new verb rather than just tweaking the existing sentence.

Forced by his father to start dating again, a young man discovers that new love trumps lost love.

Thanks, Ron, but I'd change it to:

"Forced by his father to start dating again, a young man in mourning discovers that new love trumps lost love."

Then, I'd change it an hour later, then again an hour after that, ad infinitum...

I like yours better.

Something to consider: you send a lot of the logline on the father. He "forces" his son to start dating again. Is that essential info for the logline? Write a few versions without the father, focusing on the protagonist throughout, or the protagonist and his new love.

Write a bunch of loglines, pick out the best one, and tweak it to perfection.

It appears to me that the father stuff isn't needed in the logline.

The ring business is excellent. It stands as an objective correlative of his love for his dead girlfriend and at the same time as the emotional problem he must overcome in order to give new love a chance.

The part about "on his own..." just isn't needed in the logline. Use that in the synopsis.

I like Joseph's idea of including the ring in the logline. It shows that you think metaphorically, which Barb highly recommends.

David,

I agree with Patrick. Your logline needs to identify some greater tension, and the ending about "or live alone forever" (or however you worded it) not only lies flat but makes one ask, "Why is this his LAST chance?"

Disclaimer: I suck at loglines. It's a lot easier to talk about what should happen than it is to make it happen.

BTW, I'm more interested in hearing about his new love than his old one.

When I was graduating from the U of Washington, I got an unexpected writing lesson from Prof Robert Heilman, a "man of letters." He offered to look at my job application letter. After reading it, he said, "I thought you wanted to get a job teaching." Yeah, I did. He said that the letter was all about me and that was not an effective approach. The task in writing is to get the reader to read the next line. In order to do that, you have to focus on the reader, not on yourself.

Think about what a logline is. It's a one-sentence effort to get a producer or agent or whomever to read page 1 of your screenplay. So, don't use it to capsulize your plot, use it to inspire the reader to want to read your screenplay. Think about it from the producer's point of view. What she or he wants to know is whether this is a fresh idea with commercial appeal. Your goal, in one sentence, is to get the producer to risk investing time and money looking at the screenplay of an aspiring writer in writing's most competitive market.

So, forget details (such as the father). Find some way to capture the heart of the story in as few words as possible. (Remember this movie? A shark terrorizes a town. Five words.)

I think it was Patrick, maybe someone else, who suggested using rings in the logline. Try working with that. Example, not a suggestion, per se: A ring which symbolized love becomes a prison for a man in mourning.

David,

"Believes" is not much of an action verb. Gene wants you to tell us "what happens" in the story. Okay, he falls for a girl who's already engaged, but what does he DO? Does he kidnap her and woo her by force? Does he sabotage the girl's engagement by exposing her fiance as a heal? WHAT DOES HE DO to win her heart away from the man she thinks she loves?

I hope you don't feel piled on. We're all just trying to help. Honestly. But help can feel like a hard slap in the face, as David warned you.

David, this is the first time you've given us some details about the action of the story. And remember, every story is a cliche -- according to theorists, all stories are variations on archetypal plots; the creativity is in what you do with the story, what freshness you bring to it.

My question now is, what happens in the 2nd act? What happens at the midpoint to reverse the momentum of the plot? Think in terms of Syd Field's description of plot structure, here, the midpoint at the top of the triangle.

For example, I could see the midpoint being when he learns that she has accepted his rival's proposal (ring). Now he realizes that he can't sit around moping for the rest of his life or he's going to lose her. Or, if he already knows that she's engaged, he learns that she's also going to be moving to Florida or Zimbabwe or somewhere, so he'll lose her completely, even as a friend. (Just examples, not suggestions.)

I'm guessing that the end of Act II is our protagonist realizing that the woman he loves has decided to go ahead with the wedding and that this is his last opportunity to take action, some drastic action. It would raise the stakes if his father knows about his feelings and threatens him if he pursues her any further (I think you said or hinted at this).

The beginning of Act III is when he begins taking action to snatch the girl from the arms of her fiance. (If he were a woman, I'd suggest that this is when she removes her old engagement ring.) This is when he finds his emotional balls. He "removes the ring," tells his father to get fucked, enlists the aid of his reluctant confidant, who has opposed his actions since page 12 -- think of Syn (Joan Cusack) to Tess (Melanie Griffith) in WORKING GIRL. The confidant is a sounding board for the protagonist and is the person who articulates the stakes as they keep rising.

So, tell us what happens at the midpoint and at the beginning of Act 3. (Just to be precise, I'd say that the end of Act II is a realization and the beginning of Act III is when he takes action on that realization.)

What about THE SIXTH SENSE? Do the ghosts ever appear when the boy isn't present? I don't remember, and I hated the movie, but if they did it in that movie you can do it in yours. Of course, you can do anything you want if you set up for it.

Janet,

The deadline has been extended to Nov 30th. Perhaps it's a dynamic list that can grow. Seems odd, though, not to wait until the list is complete before posting results.

Barb Doyon is a must and I also recommend Script Savvy.

Jean,

What "e-blast list" are you talking about? I haven't received an email nor are any results posted on their Web site.

I've been using MOREs and CON'TDs in association dialogue broken at the end of a page. No one has told me not to, including Barb.

This was new to me, though, and I like it because it saves space:

For interrupted dialogue, use a space and two dashes, then DO NOT use the parenthetical (interrupts) for the next speaker.

I don't see the need for intercutting. They are all in the same location and it's clear that one's on stage and two are talking with each other. Just put the dialogue in the order you want it heard. Nothing fancy needed. Simplicity is king!

Janet,

Even if someone read your logline and built a screenplay off it, you would have no legal recourse. You have to be able to prove that they stole your words and used them in their screenplay. A story idea cannot be copyrighted.

I'm no lawyer, thank Gawd, but that's my understanding of copyright laws.

Janet,

Thanks for your kind words, but I'm not the best. Jean's the best, and Barb's the best, and lots of others here are the best, including Randy (Texas) from whom we haven't heard in eons. I'm just a crotchety old asshole who can't keep his mouth closed or his fingers still. My opinion is often wrong, but that doesn't keep me from expressing it. I have only one positive character trait: I love writing screenplays, even when they suck. Oh, and I'm pretty good with spelling and grammar, thanks to two years of Latin in junior high school ("Thank you, Mrs. Scott!").

Congratulations, Greg! Tell us more about THE ART OF KISSING.

Focus on the emotions, excitement, suspense, conflict and drama of the story, not the details.

Congratulations, Anita! BIG WIN! I'm proud of you and hoping this leads to an option.

Jeffrey,

I'd spend the $75 for an analysis from Barb Doyon at Extreme Screenplay. That's barely more than an average contest entry fee.

I entered two screenplays (ROCHESTER and BLUE GROUND) in the 20/20 contest. Their prose commentaries were so ridiculously inaccurate about the details of the stories that I'm convinced that neither screenplay was even read! I don't mind losing, but I do mind paying them to not read my work.

Best of luck with your writing.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING, everyone!

This seems like a good day to thank Frederick Mensch for creating and maintaining this awesome Web site, which provides screenwriters with a variety of useful tools plus the opportunity for us to exchange ideas and network through this Bulletin Board.

Thank you, Frederick. You are an orchid in a field of daisies.

They wouldn't let me enter cause I'm not a girl.

Dene,

Australia has a thriving film industry. Why not seek representation there?

I would advise against mentioning that you've had ANY personal experience with supernatural events, whether they're part of your screenplays or not. Many will instantly brand you as a kook.

From what I can tell, the only way to get an agent in L.A. is to fit six of the following criteria:

1. Be the 20-year-old son or daughter of an unholy union between Quentin Tarantino and Oprah 2. Drive a one-off billion-dollar Italian sports car with a Rudolph Valentino semen stain on the leather steering wheel 3. Sign a contract with Universal or Disney for 100 feature films 4. Have A-list directors and actors beg to be in your film for guild minimums 5. Write scripts with glamorous titles, cliched dialogue and hackneyed plots

Then, maybe, if you're lucky and you grovel like a Gitmo detainee and are willing to take it up the ass, maybe, if you're really really lucky and God takes pity on you, some agent will ask his assistant to piss on your script before tossing it in a hazmat bin.

Thanks, Junior.

Hey, check this out in the "News" section. Sponsored by Benderspink. Sounds like a great opportunity to break in without selling a whole screenplay.

I'm signed up.

CONGRATULATIONS, Jean! Here's hoping Serena's Thunder is heard round the world!

They've been discussed on the BB, too. Here's a post by one of our own:

"Author: Eric Niblick

Okay, I have seen some bad things online about this agency, Writer's Literary Agency. I am unfortunately under contract with them, and they seem to try and bleed me dry with critiquing and editing costs. The only thing I received besides my contract and critiquing was a follow up on a form letter email asking how I was doing with any revisions."

Patrick,

That's a really cynical point of view! Of course, people's books and services cost money (you aren't planning to give away your script, are you?), but some of those people have real expertise and are offering you opportunities to improve your writing so that maybe some day you can make a sale. And it doesn't take much effort to delete an email.

Screenwriting is the most competitive form of writing I know of. It's much easier to get a book published. You could choose to go to UCLA and major in screenwriting, but what would that cost, what, $50,000 or $60,000 in tuition fees alone? And that's IF you can get accepted to the program. Even then, you're not guaranteed success as a screenwriter.

Using the resources on this Web site, including contest report cards and the 1,000s of BB posts about that books to read, what script analysts to use, what contests to enter, you can spend your dollars wisely, and , if your script is really good, get it looked at by people who are looking for scripts to purchase and make into films.

I can't tell you to shed your cynicism. I surely haven't shed mine! But, when it comes to your writing, genuine excitement about your story will get you a lot further than cynicism.

Ditto, and congratulations to Jean (and myself) for advancing in the Screenplay Festival. SERENA'S THUNDER continues to rumble through the contest circuit.

And a special shout-out to Frederick for his hard work on this awesome Web site.

Ditto Jean.

InkTip gets a thumbs-up from me. I've had quite a few contacts as a result of my postings there. However, you do have to check out anyone who requests your script as some seem to have no verifiable track record. I prefer not to sell an option to someone who has no track record in the industry.

You're more likely to have some success with InkTip, as elsewhere, if you list a script which can be made on a low budget. It will also sell more readily if it adheres closely to the conventions of its genre.

I use Final Draft and love it. Never used any other screenwriting program. 6.0 and 7.0 refer to versions of the program, and 7.1 would be an update of the 7.0 version. Updates are free. New versions, which I believe are sometimes called "upgrades," cost less if you own the previous version.

Final Draft 7.1.3 is $229 at the Writer's Store.

Seems like you should be able to pick up Final Draft 7.1 in the box, unopened, for $150 or less from someone who already has it but won another copy in a screenplay contest.

Last time I registered FD, it required a product serial number but not proof of purchase. I don't believe they care who you bought it from. If you receive it as a gift, does Mom give you a receipt?

Yvonne,

Narrative film just means it tells a story, as opposed to a documentary which portrays a "reality." No narrator is required, just a story.

WORKING GIRL

For me, it's mostly Mozart. But then, he's a character in my latest screenplay.

Alternatively, The Eagles, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Sting, The Police, Supertramp, Neil Young, Justin Timberlake, Fiona Apple.

Wanna win Final Draft? Enter their Oscar contest:

http://www.storylink.com/oscarcontest

Winner gets free FD software.

By entering their Oscar contest:

http://www.storylink.com/oscarcontest

Congratulations, Ron!

Way to go, Jean! It couldn't happen to anyone more deserving.

Two finalists in the All Access contest --

THE BOROUGH BOYS: COME BACK TO ME and THE JUNIOR DETECTIVES AND THE CITIES OF GOLD.

Someone likes your writing a lot, huh? Hard work pays off.

CAT (V.O.) What's the matter? Never seen a cat before?

I participated in the last teleconference and it was totally worth it. Don't let this opportunity pass.

Did you copy the WGA number onto a contest application form or onto the title page of a file version of your script?

If you registered your script with InkTip, you'll have listed the WGA number or copyright number with them and it'll show when you access the info pages about the script.

Only talk about the door if it's important. It's like, if a character is cooking eggs, you don't have to mention that she picks up a spatula. We all know that doorways have doors, so we don't have to talk about them, unless there's a reason.

So, we talk about the door if, for example:

it's a thriller and the door opening is a matter of suspense;

dramatic irony -- we know but the character doesn't know that opening the door will let in a werewolf, or closing it will close off the only avenue of escape;

the door is a motif.

Of course, there are thousands of potential reasons to mention the door, but the same idea applies -- only mention the door if there's a reason to, a reason beyond the customary use of a door.

At the end of the daydream sequence, put

BACK TO SCENE

or

END OF DAYDREAM

Is InkTip a good deal? I think so. I haven't sold anything through InkTip, but my loglines, synopses, and scripts have gotten more viewings through InkTip than through all other means combined. I believe it costs $60 to list a script for 6 months (correct me if I'm wrong). I just got an email from ScriptStork.com where they will list your script for free, but if it's requested you get charged $40 per request. That could quickly become very expensive. With InkTip, it's just the listing fee no matter how many times a script or synopsis gets requested.

To maximize your investment in InkTip, list the kinds of scripts which sell or get people hired -- shorts, low-budget features, and ultra-low-budget features.

From an email I just received from Barb:

Last day to grab a spot is March 31, 2009. The teleconference will be held on Saturday, April 4, 2009. To participate, purchase a standard review. The review is redeemable anytime. Spots open until filled!

If you have Final Draft, you save your script as a pdf file (an option in the save menu), and choose where to save the file (e.g., desktop). When you enter the contest online, you will click on a browse button to find and upload your pdf file.

You only need Adobe Acrobat if you're going to read the pdf file, you don't need it to create the file, if your screenwriting program has the save as pdf option, like Final Draft.

I hope that helps.

Correction to what Karen said. At least according to my understanding, a pdf file does not protect your script from changes. Most of us have the free read-only version of Adobe Acrobat, which cannot be used to change a pdf file, but if someone has the full version of Adobe Acrobat, they can make changes to pdf files.

Good work, guys! Congratulations!

Fade In has posted its list of quarterfinalists on its contest Web page, by author only, no titles.

Janet, your last post is an excellent explanation. Detailed, precise, with examples.

I've followed this thread loosely. I've been surprised that CHICAGO was never (I believe) mentioned. It's one of my three favorite movies (along with AMADEUS and AMERICAN BEAUTY), and I don't generally like musicals very much!

Janet,

F. Murray Abraham as Salieri in AMADEUS is my all-time favorite acting performance (male or female). Glenn Close as Merteuil in DANGEROUS LIAISONS is my all-time favorite acting performance by a female.

What makes my head spin, though, is the sheer genius of the songs written for CHICAGO. How two guys can sit down and write one brilliant song after another boggles the mind. John Kander and Fred Ebb have an understanding of music which exceeds my understanding of breathing! Not that Bob Fosse doesn't deserve some credit :-)

Terry

http://www.screenplayfestival.com/2008_final.html

I am. I think it's excellent.

I believe they're just introducing a system for submissions to avoid having their editors swamped with unsolicited emails proposing articles for their magazine. The new system also gives prospective writers a format for submissions so that the editors don't have to ask the proposer for this or that.

Gadzooks, folks, give Audrey a break! Very few contests are quick to pay prize money. I won one contest that took over a year to pay me and that was in installments! I was a finalist in the Contest of Contest Winners its first year and all of us had to harass Howard for over six months before he so much as listed the titles of our scripts on his own Web site.

I've entered the Fade In contest many times and never once have I made the first cut, even with scripts which have won other contests and made the first cut at Nicholl. Judging is subjective. If I don't make the cut in a contest, I assume the problem is with my script, not the contest, unless I receive idiotic comments like I got from the 20/20 contest, where it was obvious that the readers hadn't actually read my scripts (my opinion there is based on comments which were full of ridiculous errors in references to both stories).

I entered Fade In and my script (CALLIOPE) probably won't make the cut, but I'll probably enter it again next year. But I won't enter the 20/20 contest. I also entered Jim Mercurio's new contest (Champions), today, and I'm looking forward to getting the feedback; if it's negative, I'll make revisions.

By the way, I think Audrey Kelly deserves credit for her many posts on this BB. How many other contest directors have bothered to communicate with us in this fashion? Audrey Kelly and Greg Beal and Jim Mercurio and Barb Doyon all deserve credit for rubbing elbows with us here.

Oh, btw, I did make the 1st cut in the Fade In contest this year, for the first time. But I don't personally consider making the top 25 percent of a contest as much of an accomplishment. Making the semifinals feels good, but it's winning and making the finals that count, IMHO. I don't intend to piss on anyone else's parade, I'm just telling you what I feel about my own performance in contests.

Fade In has now posted a list of semifinalists. To see the list, you have to go to the link at the bottom of the home page. "No joy" for me. Best of luck to the rest of you who entered.

I was wrong, the Fade In semifinalists are not posted. The link at the bottom of the Fade In page is mislabeled (it says "13th Annual" but it's the 2007 list). Thanks to Eric Sentell for apprising me (in kind language) of my mistake. Yet another "duh" on my part.

If Script Savvy had only 100 entries, then Cat's script was, nevertheless, in the top 1 percent. That's not as good as a Nicholl finalist but higher than a Nicholl semifinalist, percentage-wise. And what Script Savvy lacks in size, it makes up for in personal attention, including very professional script notes. The girls there tried on several occasions to hook my script up with producers. I wasn't calling them, they were calling me, and I didn't even win their contest!

I had a similar experience with The Writer's Place, and they, too, got my script looked at by interested parties, despite being a small contest (compared to Austen or the Nicholl).

So, Cat, my message to you is... WAY TO GO, GIRL! Good win!

Cheryl,

First of all, make no reference to credits in your script.

I would put the info in an action paragraph. E.g.:

INT. WALL STREET - BAR - DAY

Depressed Stockbrokers use highballs to dilute news about the recession coming from talking heads on TVs all around the bar.

Well, not INT. WALL STREET - BAR - DAY

rather

INT. WALL STREET BAR - DAY

Sorry. I'm on meds.

I always apply the "ring true" test to notes, whether they're from a contest or a paid analyst. If the advice "rings true," I use it. If it doesn't, I don't use it. The only thing that really counts is whether the notes are useful to you or not.

Uh oh. I thought the litter box was a bonus.

Congratulations, Irin! Good win!

Producer/director/writer Judd Apatow is a guest on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, Thursday, May 7th.

Well, Cat, "Eat it, BlueCat - Script Savvy Winner," in which you are repeatedly congratulated, has 54 posts, so far. I'd say your win has some real legs!

Now, this mansion and pool you boast of -- is that a double-wide and a plastic wading pool from Target? If so, I'm jealous.

Thanks for the warning, Colin, and remind us of that name periodically, if you will, as some of us (me, at least) have Swiss cheese for brains.

A few months from now, I might recognize the name but I probably won't remember what I heard about him. Brain like a sieve made out of old, moldy Swiss cheese.

THE PRODUCERS, Patrick.

Thanks, James, for noticing that I have moments of lucidity between my oblivions.

If I aged only during my moments of lucidity, I'd live for eons.

Hey, thanks, Janet, but it's news to me! I haven't received an email or letter from them, and the results aren't posted on their Web site (as far as I can tell, but I'm a technoretard).

I'm constantly tinkering with my scripts, so I save lots of copies. The most current version is always the ScriptTitle.fdr and ScriptTitle.pdf. When I send it to a contest or prodco, I save a copy as ScriptTitleContestName.fdr or .pdf. That way I know what version was looked at by whom. I put all but the current version in a folder named with the ScriptTitle and I keep the current version on my desktop.

Thanks, guys. I still haven't heard directly from Bridge and they still haven't posted the contest results on their Web page.

I received the following email from Gary W Goldstein about a teleconference call (TONIGHT) to promote his course about selling your scripts and yourself to Hollywood. I'm going to post that email right here, then comment on last week's call in a separate post.

But, let me say up front that I am not endorsing the course or suggesting that anyone shouldn't take it, I'm just offering others the opportunity to make up their own minds and to share their impressions with the rest of us aspiring screenwriters.

The email:

Last week I hosted a free call titled "The Insider's Keys to a Successful Screenwriting Career in Hollywood." The call was great, but there was one problem -- we overloaded the lines. I promise next time that we will have a much larger phone bridge ready for you! I feel terrible that many of you were not able to get on, and kept getting busy signals, so I decided to give it one more shot. This Tuesday, May 19th at 6:00 PM, PST, I'm hosting the entire call live, one last time. And James, please make sure you come on the call live. This very well will be the last time I ever host this call for you. Without further ado, here is the link: http://www.garywgoldstein.com/3keys1 I can't wait to speak with you when you come on the call tomorrow [TODAY, May 19th], Gary W. Goldstein

There were actually two calls last week and I was on the first one. It appeared from the pre-call chatter that there were probably 40 to 50 people involved in the call (that's my guess).

My apologies up front to GWG for any misrepresentations of himself or his course.

If you got to work with Gary W Goldstein one-on-one and he had read your screenplay and loved it, I'll bet that would increase your chances of selling the script by a thousandfold. But none of the packages offered suggests that he will read your screenplay. What he is offering is his expertise about how to go about selling your script and his focus is not on your screenwriting but on your career. He advises becoming proactive in developing your career, devoting at least 20 minutes per day to the business side of writing, like sending out query letters, networking, etc.

The teleconference course is offered in two or three packages. The least expensive is 297 dollars. For that, you're downloading his files and participating in what I think is weekly teleconference sessions, during which you may have a chance to ask a question. The more expensive package is, I believe, 597 dollars, and that includes the first package plus unlimited email access to Gary during the course and a 15-minute one-on-one phone call with Gary.

I found the teleconference call (not the course but the phone call promoting the course) pretty useless FOR ME. I felt that Gary rambled on and on in answering people's questions and he let them ask multiple questions, sometimes the same question twice. So, I'm guessing that a lot of people who wanted to ask a question probably didn't get to. I did get to ask a question, the last one of the night.

The questions seemed very person-specific, not much use to others. And one guy claimed to be writing big budget films (50 million and more) for hire and wanted Gary's advice on how to get the opportunity to direct his own big budget film. Yeah, I really believe that bullshit!

I'm not going to take the course. I hate the selling side of professional writing and I'm too old and ugly for a Hollywood career, anyway. And I know I'm not going to suddenly start sending out cold queries just because it's the smart thing to do. And it's too much money, in my opinion. If I pay someone 300 bucks, the son of a bitch better read my stuff! If I pay someone 600 bucks, I expect him to adopt me and make me his heir. If I'm going to get serious about acting like a professional writer, I'll take Chris' course -- a third the cost and LOTS of endorsements from moviebyters.

I THINK GARY'S COURSE COULD BE JUST THE TICKET FOR THE RIGHT PERSON. But that ain't me. If someone has taken Gary's course, I hope they'll post their impressions here so that the rest of us can make a better-informed decision. I have not taken the course; my comments are based solely on my impressions from the promotional teleconference call.

BTW, Gary helped get PRETTY WOMAN (1990), UNDER SIEGE (1992) and UNDER SIEGE 2 (1995) sold (that's his claim, which I have not researched but have no reason to doubt). Those are major market films, but PW was 20 years ago and US and US2 were at least 15 years ago. Seems to me that Hollywood has changed a lot since then, but he may have more recent projects that I don't know about.

AGAIN, I am not suggesting anyone shouldn't take the course, I'm just offering my personal impressions and opening up the topic of Gary's course for discussion, if anyone wants to discuss it. In any case, you can listen in on his call TONIGHT and judge for yourself.

Great job, Geoff! Now, please quit sending ACE OF ACES to the contests I enter. ;-)

I felt that, based on the promotional teleconference call, the course wasn't a good fit FOR ME. And you're right -- I don't know how Hollywood works.

The first nine segments are now complete, ONE TO GO. Each segment winner receives $3,000 and will be in the running for the $5,000 rewrite.

Plus, folks, listen to this -- the finalists for each segment have their segments posted on the Web site and they have the opportunity to send Benderspink a screenplay of their own for consideration! Not a bad return for 10 pages and ten dollars.

The Web site even has suggestions for writers for the competition.

Runners-up in the Family category of the Screenplay Festival. Jean for SERENA'S THUNDER, Geoff for ACE OF ACES. Way to go, guys! Congratulations!

Hey, fellow writers, take a serious look at this contest, now in its final segment.

The script is 90 percent finished. For less than you spent on beer for Memorial Day, you have the opportunity to submit the final 10- to 15-page segment. If you win, $3,000 and maybe the $5,000 rewrite.

More importantly, if you're a finalist, you get to submit one of your other screenplays to Benderspink. If they like your writing, they can make things happen. No query letters. No begging. No analyst fee. Just a shot to get your script read by real players.

So, stop bitching about how unfair it all is and set your indie script aside and pretend you're writing a script-for-hire for Shia LaBeouf. They're not looking for a masterpiece, they're looking for great action, suspense, and some memorable dialogue. The story has reached the point where it needs that "whiff of death" Blake Snyder talks about.

At least read the story and see if you want to give it a shot!

http://www.cowritescript.com

Jean, unless I'm mistaken, you are now agented, thanks in part to Barb Doyon. Has it made any difference, yet? Is your agent getting you requests for your scripts? Is she setting you up for interviews for screenwriting jobs? Have you met with her in person?

What makes you think it's a scam? Are they getting rich on $10 entry fees? They pay $3,000 to each of ten segment winners, and will pay $5,000 to the one selected to do the rewrite. In order to break even, not counting any expenses, they'd have to receive 3,500 entries!

Double ditto!!

Congratulations, Felice, for your 3rd Place in the MoviePoet contest! Way to go, girl!

Congratulations to Cat for her period piece MARLOWE! which has earned her a featured screenwriter spot with Barb Doyon's Extreme Screenwriting. Described by the reader as the best period action adventure since AMADEUS. Cool Cat!

Cat,

We all have to deal with emotional slumps. You just have to push your way through them and for that I recommend writing. I have the good fortune of being so emotionally shallow that my slumps usually last only a few minutes. The way I see it, we live and die in the blink of an eye, and I don't want to waste my blink wishing for something to happen. I'd rather waste my blink makin' something happen. At least that way I'm happily self-deluded. So, keep on writin' and fightin'!

WriteMovies has begun posting quarterfinalists for Contest 21. They continuously update the list until it's complete.

http://www.writemovies.com/contests/contest21results_text.html

Correction -- that's semifinalists, not quarterfinalists.

It is semifinalists. I corrected myself, but not fast enough.

Congratulations, Janet, for making the semifinalist list. By the way, I was at King Soopers yesterday and I saw a man with a Corvette.

Year: Won't be vintage for a few months Make: Burgundy Model: I-couldn't-afford-the-insurance coupe

Add me to the fan list for Barb Doyon and for Script Savvy. And now you can add BlueCat. I just got back a script analysis for my contest entry and it was excellent, detailed, encouraging, and helpful. I almost didn't enter BlueCat because I've never made the first cut in that contest even with scripts that have won other contests and made the cut at Nicholl. But this feedback was well worth the entry fee (I don't think I paid extra).

Bobbette, I don't know about the logline (I suck at loglines), but I think that sounds like a TERRIFIC STORY, like a Luc Besson story, and it sounds VERY PRODUCEABLE! I would get a pro like Barb or the Savvy girls to help you hone the logline then get the script out there. Get on it, girl! Do it NOW and quit wasting time with us amateurs! Make sure the script has some great lines and some great painful dramatic moments. You certainly have a fresh hitman story and it drips with the irony Blake Snyder requires.

Bobbette, I think you're trying to give too much information. You don't need to tell the story in the logline.

He's the perfect hitman. But his final contract may be more than even he can handle.

Okay, I confess I kinda stole this from SAVE THE CAT! Remember the logline Blake Snyder gives us for PRETTY WOMAN? "She was the perfect date. Until she started drinking." Or something like that. The logline isn't supposed to tell the story or even give details from the story. It's supposed to get a script or synopsis request. That's all. Details bog down the logline. Stay with the 15 or fewer words which will be on the movie poster. I'll bet you get more InkTip hits with this more teasing style of logline.

Bobbette,

Go back to Blake. Don't inform the reader, tease her.

Now, this isn't a suggestion for your script, but an example of what I'm talking about:

Most of us would love to kill our in-laws. But what if you really got the chance?

That tells us nothing about the script, but IMHO it makes you want to find out what it's about. This will get some producers to read the synopsis. That's where you give them the story, but even in the synopsis you don't want to get bogged down in details. Even the synopsis is a teaser because your ultimate goal is to get the script read. If the synopsis tells the whole story, they won't waste 90 minutes reading the script.

Again, I think you have hit on a great idea, a Luc Besson-great idea (he's one of my favorite commercial scriptwriters, THE PROFESSIONAL, TAKEN, THE FIFTH ELEMENT, UNLEASHED, the TRANSPORTER series), and obviously Barb thinks you executed wonderfully, so don't blow it with a mundane logline. Find the teaser which gets the reader to the synopsis or directly to the script.

I used to teach English at a university. I always told all my students that the most difficult thing in the world is to get someone to read the next sentence voluntarily (i.e., not a teacher reading because he or she has to). The ultimate goal of every sentence is to get the reader to read the next sentence. We're not talking personal letters, we're talking strangers, hiring committees, etc. Your goal in the logline to not to tell the story, it's to get the producer to click on the synopsis button or, better yet, to request your script.

Disclaimer: I have never written a good logline. Disdisclaimer: I have never written a good synopsis.

Now, do as I say, not as I do. Write a brilliant TEASER LOGLINE. Make it really short and so memorable that Blake and Jim both use it in their next books. DON'T tell the story! Post the logline on InkTip and change your name to Raul.

CORRECTION:

That logline sample I semi-quoted was from BLIND DATE, not PRETTY WOMAN.

You're really disappointing me, Bobbette. :-( This is like mounting a 3-carat diamond in plastic.

Bobbette, of course I don't hate you. We're not related, are we?

It's just that I can see the mistake you're making: you're trying to tell the story in the logline. I feel as though the only reason I would need to read the script is to find out whether the protagonist kills the old fart (his father-in-law) or not.

This is the time for affective writing, that is results-oriented writing. You need to focus on the reader (prospective film producer, agent, manager). This is what rhetoric is all about. How to achieve results. Instead, you're focused on the wrong task, trying to encapsulate your story.

But, I'm nagging you to death, so I'll shut up, now. I've had my say. Thank you for listening and not screaming at me. And please don't put out a hit on me.

He's the most powerful crime boss in Chicago, but this time the hit's out on him.

FEARFUL SYMMETRY. In this stage play, death is truly an art.

The explanation isn't even a minor problem. Remember THE RUNNING MAN?

I think Frederick made some changes to the program. The same thing happened to my loglines from WinningScripts, so I edited them to try to make them one sentence. You haven't been singled out.

Makes us honest.

It's the Dramatic Unities. Goes back to the origins of drama thousands of years ago. Unities of Time, Place, and Action.

I got a 3rd Place in The Writer's Place contest and they worked hard to get my screenplay read. Similar story with Script Savvy. They were still recommending one of my screenplays months after it was all over. That makes a contest worthwhile, IMHO.

In this economic environment, if your screenplay isn't a cheap indie, it has virtually no chance of getting made no matter how many contests it wins. Hollywood is all remakes and adaptations, now, so forget the high concept script. No one's going to invest $100,000,000 in a spec script from an unknown no matter how great it is. That means I'm screwed. I've written about 15 scripts and only two could be produced for less than $3,000,000.

On the other hand, I say don't make decisions out of fear. Write what you want to write and throw it out there. But, if you're bent on having a career as a professional screenwriter, you need to write a DESIGNER SCRIPT for the indie market to get your foot in the door.

"Screenplay" is recommended. I prefer Cole & Haag but that's because I was writing back when their book was the formatting bible.

FYI, the producers are a lot more interested in the story than whether you slavishly follow formatting rules. I've read a number of professional screenplays and they ALWAYS have formatting deviations and spelling errors.

The two keys to good formatting are CONSISTENCY and SIMPLICITY. Be consistent and keep it simple. And don't try to direct. Parentheticals should rarely be used; they slow down the reading.

Still, when they're not doing remakes, they're doing adaptations. They want the assurance of a ready audience. And look at Pirates of the Caribbean and Transformers -- movies made from amusement parks rides and popular toys.

Congrats, Eric, and we're glad to welcome you into our community, or should I say dysfunctional family? Sometimes we need a fresh voice, sometimes we need fresh blood.

Thanks for that heads-up, JR. I never heard of that service before.

I think InkTip provides an excellent service. But you can't expect to sell a high-concept spec script whether you post it on InkTip or your forehead. No one's going to buy a script which would cost 50 or 100 million to produce. Most of the sales on InkTip are for low budget films, and most producers are looking for writers, not scripts. Let me repeat that: most producers are looking for writers, not scripts. They have an idea that they want scripted and they hire someone to write it. Your spec script is more likely to be a writing sample than a sale.

If you don't believe me, ask Barb Doyon. She'll tell you the same thing. And I heard it directly from the mouth of an agent who said, in a teleconference call that Barb arranged, that her MAIN JOB AS AN AGENT is not to sell her clients' spec scripts but to find her clients writing jobs. She said that the spec scripts serve primarily as writing samples. Of course she'd love to sell them, but in most cases the spec scripts are writing samples.

If you want to sell on InkTip, write a designer script which can be produced in one location with four characters for under a million. Make sure there's a shitload of conflict and lots of subtext. And if it's a romcom, there's almost no chance it will sell. Dramas and cheap horror (not comedy horror like SLITHER) are what sell. And don't expect to retire on what you paid for it. You'll be lucky if you can buy a car!

I think most moviebyters would include Austin in the top 10, if not the top 5 screenplay contests.

So, JR, tell us what the service costs.

I got back notes on two screenplays I entered in Jim Mercurio's Champion contest. I thought I'd offer my reaction to the notes. (I commented earlier on the amazing notes I received from BlueCat.)

CALLIOPE. This is my newest screenplay, a teen fantasy about a blind 14-yr-old girl who ends up in an orphanage for blind children in Vienna, where she discovers a magic portal to Mozart's study back in 1791 when he was struggling to compose "The Magic Flute," his most popular and last opera (he died within two months of the premiere). I confess the script has some problems, which I've been working on, but it has, nevertheless, made the finals in three contests and missed the Nicholl last year (1st draft) by less than a hundred scripts (which means it doesn't totally suck). Anyway, the reader made some nice and accurate observations in the first paragraph, but left me wondering how she could read the whole script and not know how to spell the protagonist's name! She misspells Callie throughout her notes! And the she offers the following:

What is less successful is the ending of the film, which rings a bit too bombastic, crowd-cheering and somewhat of a neat staple, in comparison with the rest of the script. I'm referring primarily to the sweeping sentimentality of Calli's grand stage conquest to everyone's unanimous awe and amazement. It rings a bit too perfect and convenient, and lacks the intimacy and individuality of the preceding narrative. Something a bit more filigree, frail and fleeting would be in order; or, alternately, some ''shabbier'' aspect could be introduced and played with at the end, to break up and deflate some of the fabulous grandeur of the surprise recital. After all, Calli's main aspirations are not to prove herself to the rest of the world and gain universal admiration. It's something rather more covert, personal and dear, such as perhaps be seen for who she is and be allowed to exercise her uniqueness and pursue her fantasies unhindered. The current ending doesn't reinforce that aspect.

I understand the reader's point. It is rather a Disney ending. But she misses the point that Callie is interrupting and then playing in this Mozart concert in an effort to make money to save the failing orphanage, which has been ordered to be shut down if it doesn't raise enough money immediately. She isn't playing the piano to prove anything to anyone. She came out of a courtroom where the judge ordered the orphanage closed, if.... But, somehow the reader completely missed that point and decided that my main character is dealing instead with identity issues.

As you might expect, CALLIOPE didn't make the cut. I'm not complaining about that. I NEVER EXPECT to make the cut, I just hope to.

ROCHESTER. My masterpiece. It will never get made because Johnny Depp did THE LIBERTINE about the same person, and his film was a disaster. But, my script is brilliant. Has won two contests, made the cut in the Nicholl, etc. Still, it has failed to make the cut in numerous contests.

The reader for Champion made some very good observations, but complains that Mulgrave, the antagonist, doesn't seem up to par with Rochester, he's not a villain of adequate stature, not dangerous or threatening enough. The reader recommends changing this aspect. What the reader should have said was this: 'The script lulled me into a belief that Mulgrave was not a worthy foe of Rochester. But I was totally blown away when this 'unworthy opponent' managed to steal Rochester's mistress, a 17-year-old actress with whom the famous Earl had fallen in love, and destroyed his reputation at court.' I don't know, is this plot strategy too sophisticated for contest readers? It's called the irony of betrayal and it was practiced to perfection by John Milton and the strategy dates back to the Greeks. Maybe some people should study rhetoric! The point in the story is that Rochester himself underestimates his foe, and we, as audience, do too.

Ironically, ROCHESTER made the cut!

In my opinion, both readers made a lot of good observations, but both also missed major elements of the stories and offered little that would be helpful in doing revisions or rewrites. "Something a little more filigree, frail, and fleeting"? What the hell does that mean? Let the orphanage go under?

Vol,

If you're writing them because you like writing them, keep writing them. (That's what I do.)

If you're trying to become a PROFESSIONAL SCREENWRITER, talk with Barb Doyon about what genre you have the best chance to sell, then design a script which meets all those qualifications, especially budget and genre.

I know I have a better chance of winning the Powerball Lottery than selling my next expensive sci-fi script, but I'm going ahead with that script, anyway, because it's what I want to write. I simply like writing the best idea I have. All I'm saying is that that is not a good career path. It could work, but probably won't.

If you want to be a PROFESSIONAL SCREENWRITER, you have to be willing and able to write to the task. So, set yourself the task of writing a LOW-BUDGET GENRE PIECE that has a good chance of selling. Talk with Barb, first (or Jim or the girls at Script Savvy or your chosen expert), to get the info which will maximize your chances of success. She'll tell you what sells and what doesn't. And she doesn't beat around the bush or pull punches, she gives you the lowdown. I believe she'll tell you low-budget drama, thriller, or horror, but not comedy/horror (like SLITHER or SHAUN OF THE DEAD) and not romcom and not sci-fi.

I met with a friend, today, and he said that he and his co-authors had gotten NOT ONE script request after sending out queries through an entertainment lawyer on five different projects, including two TV series proposals (one adventure, one reality). Over a period of 18 months, they spent $5,000 (on the lawyer) and got not one answer of any kind, not even a refusal, and he's an Emmy-winning director with lots of experience and some pretty heavy contacts in the industry. It's a tough climate all the way around, and tougher for newbies. If you want to sell something, write exactly what they're looking for. And remember that none of that TARP money is going to Hollywood, so they better be able to film it with a cell phone.

Vol,

Let me also say, don't make decisions based on fear. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from writing screenplays or pursuing a career as a screenwriter. I'm just trying to make sure people's eyes are open to the realities of the industry (at least as I perceive those realities) so they can plan the use of their time intelligently and maximize their chances for success. Not all of us can be professional screenwriters because Hollywood isn't going to make 5 million movies next year. Hollywood is going to make fewer movies than ever, in all likelihood. So, the competition for those dollars is great. To win, you need not only to write a great screenplay, you need to write the screenplay someone is looking for. And even that script will probably be just a writing sample.

I say, keep on writin'! I'm going to.

When I was getting my B.A. in English, I sent out for applications for a bunch of grad schools. They all sent applications back, but some included a letter saying that they could not in good conscience encourage anyone to pursue a career in English with the employment prospects looking so dim. I went to grad school, anyway. I earned my degree and every one of us who got a Ph. D. that year got a teaching job at a university or college. But, if we had listened to fear....

So, keep on writin'! But write smart (not like me).

I'm in with a family and another one.

C'mon, folks, help me out here. An ending which is more "filigree, frail and fleeting." What the hell does that mean? And is it really a good idea to introduce "shabbier elements"? How do I make the ending more filigree, frail, and fleeting and shabbier and still save the orphanage? Or should I abandon the blind orphans and let Callie (spelled "Calli" by the filigree contest reader) choose to live permanently in Mozart's world? Can anyone offer me some guidance here, some way to understand the reader's comments so that I can rewrite the ending and resubmit the script and repay the contest?

I just received the reader's notes from Script Savvy. AWESOME NOTES! Every detail was accurate and the suggestions were well supported by the reader's reasoning. Never a tone of condescension, rather that of a mentor.

In the standard paragraph which precedes the actual notes, they wisely recommend that the screenwriter use a common sense test on each of the suggestions -- does it "ring true"? I've used this test since I began writing screenplays. No matter who the suggestions come from, they have to ring true or I won't use them. And that doesn't mean every suggestion has to ring true or you throw them all out. It means you are the ultimate arbiter and you can choose which ideas to act on and which ones to ignore.

And, hey, here's a plus: we don't have to wait a year to enter a Script Savvy contest. They run a new contest every month! Amazing!

I raise my Jane Austen coffee mug to the brilliant girls at SCRIPT SAVVY.

Anyone know how? I'm on a Macintosh.

Okay, I found it. You have to go to the PRINT menu. Talk about counterintuitive! As often as we save our scripts in pdf files, why the hell did they take "Save as pdf" off the SAVE menu?

Janet, I love your title. Now, is there real meat under that hood or are you all just paint and chrome?

Evie, I think you should go. You'll have a good time and no one's going to hassle you. And Kid Rock rocks. He did an awesome duet with Sheryl Crow a few years back; I think it was titled "The Picture." Just go and have fun.

I would call or email Barb Doyon and tell her exactly what your situation is. Then, have her make sure your script hits all the GENRE BEATS and meets SUBTEXT EXPECTATIONS.

Another option: Script Savvy. Contact Donna White, the contest coordinator, and ask her to arrange a script analysis.

In either case, communicate your needs, situation, and expectations.

Oops, I forgot that Script Savvy already gave you feedback. Go straight to Barb.

Hey, Evie, I'm glad you went and it sounds like you had a blast, with lots of stuff happening that no one could have predicted. Like when I took my girlfriend to an Ozzie concert in Charlotte and she flashed her tits all over the place, drunk off her ass, of course, not to mention high, and the guys loved it and their dates didn't. I wasn't totally happy about it but it made the concert memorable. Actually, I didn't mind the flashing but I hate being around drunks. Anyway, I'm glad you went and thanks for the colorful report (pun intended). :-)

Yeah, I dated her.

Yeah, I dated her.

Yeah, I dated her.

I wouldn't say I kicked your butt, but I am delighted with an Honorable Mention in the contest. I sure got back some great notes from the reader. Hey, how's this for insane? I'm planning a sequel to CALLIOPE! A sequel for a script which will never be a film. Duh!

I'm in with two. :-)

My problem with this contest, which I've never entered, is with their prize. Since it includes an option or some such, so, if you win, you can never again enter most other contests (I always read the rules). I've had three wins in contests and none has led to a sale, so I'd be kind of screwed if I couldn't continue on the contest circuit.

I wanted to be in on the teleconference, but I was on the road on a trip. If they do it again, I'll give it a listen.

Some psycho at Final Draft decided that the program was just way too user-friendly and removed the "Save as PDF" button from the FILE menu. I wasted a lot of time learning how to save my script as a PDF file WITH TITLE PAGE, so I'm sharing that newly acquired knowledge with you.

Under the FILE menu, go to PRINT.

In the PRINT box, where it says "COPIES & PAGES," drop down to FINAL DRAFT.

Under SCRIPT OPTIONS, select "Include Title Page."

Go to the bottom left and click on the PDF button.

Drop down to SAVE AS PDF..."

A "SAVE" box will appear. Make sure the title is exactly as you want it and ends with .pdf (You may need to delete ".fdx" from the title.)

Select where you want the file saved.

Click on the "SAVE" button. You do NOT need to actually print the file.

I hope this saves someone some time and frustration. I'm not aware of how changes to the program affect PC users.

To my surprise, IMDbPro does show 928 as one of several firms representing Daniel Yost (writer, "Drugstore Cowboy") and Jasper Cole (actor?/producer of TV shows). It does not show 928 representing Sally Kirkland or Harold Sylvester. (That doesn't mean it ain't so.)

Nevertheless, I disagree with Nick. I would not even consider working with a literary agent who charged an up-front fee of 50 cents much less $1,000. LEGITIMATE AGENTS WORK ON COMMISSION.

"Congrats, Irin!" Why does that sound so familiar?

Have you read the comments?

http://www.moviebytes.com/ContestDetail.cfm?ContestNumber=129

I'm not sure what Bobbette means, but I liked the description and entered two scripts in the contest. I don't recall having submitted to them before.

Yeah, Bobbette, I read the contest description. I like when a contest defines what it's after. I have two scripts with female protagonists so I signed them up for the catfight. One of my girls is a fiesty blind teenager and the other is a tough-as-nails middle-aged fighter pilot who beats up on guys on the ground and in the air. I'm hoping my girls will bloody the noses and blacken the eyes of the other ladies, ladettes, and Bobbettes. :-)

Thanks, Bobbette. (I love that name! If I were having lunch with you, I'd say your name every time I opened my mouth. I'm going to put a Bobbette in my next screenplay. Should I make her British for French?)

C'mon, Janet, throw your script in there. My girls are feeling scrappy!

Hey, everyone, let's lighten up! I was just trying to get people to throw their hats in the ring. I mean, that's what this board is all about, isn't it? We write 'em, and we put 'em out there. Contests are our main avenue for exposure.

Janet, creativity trumps experience every time. So don't worry about others being more experienced than you. And if I worried about who I was competing against, I'd have to ask Irin for a list of competitions he's entering. (Hey, at least that would save me some money, huh?)

So, I say, if you have a script with a female or minority protagonist, consider this contest. I'm in there ready to scrap and I like comrades in the trenches. We get to wait anxiously together and congratulate each other when one of us advances and commiserate and complain when we don't.

Toby, Nick, and Janet,

John Arends' post (3 above) ought to be all the answer you need to questions about this contest. Should you enter? Not just "Yeah" but "HELL YEAH!"

I'd start with him as VOICE 1. Then, when we finally see him, you introduce him by name and description.

BOB (Voice 1) throws the covers off the bed. His mussed hair and Sponge Bob pajamas make him look...

John, if that's the worst mistake you ever make, you'll be sainted. I have two scripts in the contest and I just wish I had a third to throw at them.

Paula's suggestion works and it's the simplest. And you don't need V.O. or O.S.

You're dating yourself, Toby. Hey, that sounds like my personal life!

Evie,

I, too, have had problems saving pdf files in Final Draft on a Mac. I believe it actually saves the file but fails to place an alias on the desktop.

Try this: select a different place to save the file, somewhere other than the desktop, like the hard drive. And make sure the file name ends in .pdf

Evie, what version of FD are you using, and did you try what I suggested?

Thanks for your kind words, Janet. It certainly is fun to advance in a contest, and it's encouraging.

Good luck to you in the Cynosure contest. I would extend congratulations to others in the StoryPros contest, but I haven't read the list, yet. I'm hoping to see some familiar names. You know the old saying, keep your enemies close and your moviebyters closer.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the shout-outs.

Congratulations, Stephen! Two scripts, like moi! I'll have my fingers crossed for you in Comedy, but I'll be trying to beat you like a red-headed stepchild in Action/Adventure/Thriller.

Thanks, ladies! I feel like I'm getting a big ole group hug!

I like that idea, Paula, and it's definitely unique. Cyrano de Bergerac is one of my favorite literary characters and he's a swordsman extraordinaire (as well as a poet). If you're still working on the script, maybe you can use Cyrano to develop the theme of romance, and maybe name the love interest Roxanne. I think it's cool, too, that fencers wear their hearts (targets) on their shirts (at least, I've seen that in movies).

Paula,

I just meant you had an opportunity to use allusions to Cyrano to add a romantic depth to the fencing theme. But, if it's as polished as you say it is, I wouldn't change a word.

If I were you, I would take Barb's response as a POSITIVE. You seem to be viewing it as negative, like you wasted your money just because Barb didn't recommend 10,000 changes. Gadzooks, some people just can't take good news!

Hey, I'm with Don on this one. Never heard of this contest. Never heard of trackingb, for that matter. Does anyone have knowledge about this Web site or its contest?

Hey, Orlanda, you know these threads are organic. This one's over 40 posts long. How many threads get to forty without twisting, evolving, and morphing through a dozen different topics? In fact, this one's mutated less than most.

From the BlueCat Web site:

Semi-Finalists will be posted by Midnight PST on July 15th.

Well, I'm out. But I got two to the quarters and that's by far the best I've ever done in this contest. And it was worth it for the notes.

Congratulations, Stephen! In a few days, I hope to see HORROR COMIC on the Finalist list.

I just learned that my Honorable Mention in the Script Savvy contest got me the service of ScriptDelivery.net. I never heard of this service until it was mentioned recently on this BB. I'm not going to sign up for about two weeks as I'm in the middle of revising that screenplay based on excellent contest-reader notes from BlueCat and Script Savvy.

If there's anyone who has used that service, can you offer advice on how best to use it and what I need to be prepared to do when I register?

Irin Evers takes Feeding Frenzy with THE JUNIOR DETECTIVES AND THE CITIES OF GOLD. Congratulations, Irin! You're the man!

Okay, so, I saw the "news" that Irin won the Feeding Frenzy contest. It was posted at the top of the "News" on moviebytes on July 16th and so I started a thread to congratulate Irin. I forgot that we had gone through this a couple of weeks ago. I just thought Irin was winning EVERYTHING! But, I'm just explaining, not apologizing, cause you can't congratulate this guy too much. We all appreciate the recognition of our fellow writers. Now, some people on this BB seem to know Irin and they say he's a great guy, very deserving. I don't know him personally so I think he's a dog and that he plagiarized JUNIOR DETECTIVES from an unproduced script by the writing team of Eric Roth and Terry Rossio. I mean, think about it, he's beating ME in these contests! That alone should make his writing suspect. And what about that name Irin? Have you ever met a guy named Irin? I think it must be Serbian for "story pirate." So, maybe we should warn all the contests to watch out for this guy named Irin Evers and throw out any submissions in his name, especially scripts in the family, action, horror, historical and romance genres. Is anyone with me on this? Actually, I don't think Irin stole his script from Eric Roth and Terry Rossio. I think Eric Roth and Terry Rossion are using the pseudonym Irin Evers because they aren't eligible to enter contests since they have earned more than $10,000 writing for film and/or TV.

Gadzooks, folks, I was throwing Irin a compliment! Eric Roth and Terry Rossio are two of the most famous, highest paid screenwriters alive. Why in the world would they fiddle around with contests when they can pull a cool million just for adding their names to a project? I was suggesting that Irin's writing compares with that of two of the best. So settle down and pay attention!

Meanwhile, seriously, now, folks, let's get Irin banned from competitions. There must be something we can do. Let's hire a detective to look into every little detail of his life until we come up with something disqualifying. Maybe he has a second cousin once removed whose stepfather once worked as the assistant to a PA for someone who was once a reader for the Nicholl Fellowships. Maybe he once mowed Quentin Tarantino's lawn. Maybe he didn't pay for his popcorn at an AMC movie theater. There MUST be SOMETHING! Put your thinking caps on, folks, or none of us will ever again get to add "Winner" to our resume and the BB will erode to one never-ending thread entitled "CONGRATULATIONS, AGAIN, IRIN."

How about a contest fee surcharge? Every contest could add a $1 surcharge to its fee to be paid to Irin to not enter. That would put some serious cash in a good man's pocket and level the playing field for the rest of us.

Good luck to you, Stephen. We won't have long to wait, now. The announcement of the Winner and the Genre Winners is scheduled for July 31st.

Congratulations to Ron Brassfield and, you guessed it, Irin Evers, for advancing in the Fade In contest. Good work, guys!

I think the most common problem is that we try to tell the story in one sentence. The logline should sell not tell the story. I'm as guilty as everyone else of this. I consider myself a numbskull at loglines and a moron at synopses. And I agree that an inability to craft a good logline often points to problems with the story itself.

Excellent premise.

The problem with these loglines is the same age-old problem we always have -- they tell the story rather than sell the story. Focus on the gist -- young man disguised as old man falls for young nurse -- and find a clever way to couch it. Don't make the logline a mini-synopsis!

I confess I suck at writing loglines. Mine are the worst!

In THE SCREENWRITER'S BIBLE, Trottier says use one or the other, not both. Either FADE OUT to the right or THE END centered.

FADE OUT seems a good choice as the script begins with FADE IN.

Hoover,

You seem to be assuming that all critiques are honest and of professional quality. That just isn't the case. I got back notes on two scripts I entered in the 20/20 contest that had so many errors about the stories that I can't believe the readers actually read my scripts. I got back notes from Jim Mercurio's Champion contest where the reader couldn't even spell the protagonist's name correctly after seeing it several hundred times, plus useless commentary. On the other hand, I've had superior, accurate, useful notes from Barb, BlueCat, and Script Savvy.

When it comes to judging notes, I expect three things:

1. Accuracy. Please don't tell me someone else's story.

2. Evidence that the reader "got the story."

3. Suggestions about areas that need work, backed up by argument. Tell me what you think needs work, and tell me why.

Then, I do my job. I listen for what "rings true," then I make the revisions I choose to make.

I will never enter the 20/20 contest again (and I know they couldn't care less), but I probably will enter Mercurio's Champion contest again because I feel certain that he employs an array of readers and next time I'll probably get a different reader, and the reader I got last time may not have liked the genre, may have been tired, or maybe she/he was right and the script sucked and that suckiness resulted in the crappy notes.

I would guess that most of us who write screenplays, submit them to contests, and post comments on this board have enough sense to separate the good criticism from the crap. Certainly there is some whining (I'm guilty of that as well), but I like hearing other writers' opinions about contests and critique services.

Email Donna at Script Savvy and she will either tell you that your notes have not been sent or she'll resend them.

Thanks, Cat. Maybe we should put ROCHESTER and MARLOWE together and offer them as a package deal to Canal+ for production in Europe.

I went down in flames... twice!

Terrific explanation, Ron!

I haven't heard anything from StoryPros, yet, so I'm guessing that means I didn't win the Grand Prize or a Genre Prize. They probably inform the winners before they post the results, which are due to be posted today (and they're good at meeting their announced schedule). So...

GOOD LUCK, HOOVER!

Thanks. :-)

Hey, Hoov, we'd like to hear more about "producer on board." When you feel comfortable doing it, add some detail, such as, how she/he found your script, what you've learned about the process, what stage you're at in negotiations, what sort of changes you're making to the script, etc.

Hay, I'm in! ROCHESTER was dropped but CALLIOPE advanced. Woohoo!

Congratulations, Derrick, for MASTER OF THE REALM: THE LAST MASTER. Tell us about this action script.

Yeah, Irin, that's just like Serena and the Junior Detectives to gang up on a little blind orphan girl! I know you and Jean would steal little Callie's white cane if you could but I have news for you -- she doesn't have one! But she does have a bad attitude and she's ready to fight even though you guys have beat up on her several times in the past. Watch your shins, you mean ole bullies!

Finalists Sept 1st, Winners Oct 1st.

I threw CALLIOPE at it.

What in the world is all this hand-wringing angst about? It's just a screenplay contest. And how many endorsements of Jim Mercurio do you have to read before you trust him and his contest?

Spend Sunday going through your script. Weed out any typos and stupidities. Send it in to the Champion contest. Then quit worrying about it until the results are announced.

If it's a money problem, you enter it in three contests: Barb's Extreme Screenplay, Script Savvy, and Champion. That way you get honest reviews from intelligent, hard-working screenplay analysts in a reasonable amount of time. Will they be kick-ass, dead-on revision notes? Maybe. There's no guarantee with any screenplay. You spend your money and you take your chances. It ain't perfect. It's life.

Gordy,

I entered BlueCat for years but never made the cut, even with scripts which had won other contests and made the quarters or semis in the Nicholl. I figured I just wasn't writing the kind of script you guys like. But I submitted again this year and made the quarterfinals with my latest screenplay, CALLIOPE. It failed to make the semis, but the feedback I received from your reader was excellent and helpful and worth many times what I invested in the entry fee.

So, I say, "THANKS! And keep doing what you're doing."

Damn, Irin, isn't it enough that you win all the contests? Do you have to win the popularity contest, too? Couldn't you at least have the decency and consideration to be an asshole?

Well, Timothy, if you got the results by email, how about posting them here? I entered a script but I didn't get an email, which means I obviously didn't win, but I'd like to know who did.

I think his writing has a refreshing energy to it, like a child just released into the back yard to play on a chilly fall morning. My SAVE THE CAT! doesn't sit on a shelf, it sits in front of me where I write, with my dictionary and thesaurus. Though I'm saddened by his passing, I'm comforted by my feeling that he lived his life at full speed, that he got maximum value out of his years, days, minutes.

Way to go, TJ! One more accomplishment to list on your already impressive resume.

McGeever's SMILERS took the comedy genre in the Chicago Screenwriters Network screenplay competition. He attended the award ceremony and got to practice his "Oscar speech" on an adoring audience and got to meet Felice Bassuk in person, a wonderful person and writer he has known through the internet for a couple of years. I have yet to meet anyone except Paula Smith (Hi, Paula!) but I've exchanged emails with Felice and blogged. Mike's an awesome guy and an awesome writer and headed for great things in the film world. CONGRATULATIONS, MIKE! We're proud of you and happy for you.

Congratulations, Tom and Jim, you've cracked a big one! Here's hoping you advance to the finals.

Each year, I copy all the logline looks from my InkTip account. Last year, I think that list ran about 13 pages for two screenplays. And I don't even have a low-budget script! Also last year, I got serious interest in my sci-fi horror script BLUE GROUND from a production company that does medium budget movies and has their own CGI unit. That was the best look that script has ever gotten, and I believe the producer was seriously interested. His boss wasn't.

In you have listings on InkTip, be sure to update them every 6 weeks. That will bring them to the top of the queue and you should get a burst of logline activity. Your account lists the date when you can update your listings to bring them to the top. And change the logline each time you update. Your last version didn't work, so try a new version.

I continue to believe that InkTip offers a valuable service and I will continue to use it, but I do still believe it serves mostly low-budget films and shorts. But, my loglines have had looks from some pretty major production companies and talent agencies, so the operative word in the previous sentence is "mostly."

Marjory,

That's BARB DOYON of Extreme Screenplay.

http://www.xtremescreenwriting.com/author.htm

I wouldn't work with any producer, agent, or manager who asked me to put up money.

The Copyright Office instructs writers not to recopyright material unless major changes have been made. The form asks you to explain why you're submitting it for a new copyright and requires that you list the changes, such as new characters and new scenes.

Lee,

I think it sounds like a good story and that your logline will get you some reads. But tweak it. Make it one sentence. Work out some thing more clever for the end of the logline. "Mild mannered" needs to be hyphenated. Actually, I would change that, too. Find a term which better captures his character, or leave out the modifier altogether.

After murdering his wife, an accountant starts a new life, but her ghost makes it a living hell.

Actually, scrap that logline altogether. The After... but... structure is a cliche. I use it all the time.

An accountant murders his wife. Her ghost murders his life.

I hear ya, Hoover, and I think you have something there. The problem here, though, is that Lee posted his proposed logline and hasn't clarified anything since. A lot has been discussed, but he hasn't participated in the discussion. I feel like we're talking to a wall.

From the Austin Film Festival Web site:

Screenplay Notification Letters to go out September 3rd.

Notification letters will go out to First Round and Second Round contestants by September 3. Semi-finalists will also be notified by this date. Finalists will be announced by September 23 and then, of course, the winners will be announced on Saturday, October 24, 2009 at the Austin Film Festival's Awards Luncheon held at the historic Austin Club.

Congratulations to PAULA SMITH, a Finalist in the Cinema City International Film Festival screenplay contest with her feature CARUSO AND THE SWORD. Way to go, Paula!

Yeah, Paula Smith is in with CARUSO AND THE SWORD.

And congratulations, Irin! It's great to know moviebyters are in there fighting for the big prize.

Doesn't bother me.

I'm pleased.

I used to get upset when this sort of thing happened. Now, I realize it's just not that important to me. But the extension may make the difference between losing money or making money for the people running it. And if they lose money, we lose a contest. So, I have this advice to share: if you don't like how a contest is run, don't enter it; or don't enter it again. I won't be entering the COCW or the 20/20 contests again. They couldn't care less and neither could I.

Tell us more about MISS CHRISTMAS.

They extended the deadline. Let's all get in a huff over it. Maybe we can bitch enough to make them so fed up they'll quit putting on the contest and we'll have one less opportunity to get our stuff read by people in the industry. Ever heard of cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Write a script like SUNSHINE CLEANING. This sleeper film is a great example of an excellent low-budget film from a terrific script. The film itself probably wasn't real low budget because it stars Amy Adams, Emily Blunt, Steve Zahn, Alan Arkin, and Mary Lynn Rajskub. A house fire was the only sfx. Touching story, small main cast, limited locations.

This is the kind of script you can sell on InkTip or win a contest with and get serious producer interest. Btw, the writer is now repped by ICM.

No, SUNSHINE CLEANING was Megan Holley's first writing credit. She now has two projects in development. She worked as editor on two previous projects.

Here's an article (from 2005, I think) about screenwriter Megan Holley who came up through the film festival ranks. Her first Hollywood film was SUNSHINE CLEANING. -- Terry

Megan Holley 10 screenwriters to watch By JAN LINDSTROM VALERIO

For a writer of scripts about cloning, human tissue research and biohazard recovery, Megan Holley made a strangely low-tech debut in the film world. The Virginia-based scribe spent seven years editing industrial safety films on the manufacturing of cheesecakes, grout and windshield wipers before she paid five bucks for a Super 8 camera and began telling stories of her own.

"I'd always had a desire to get into film, but I had no idea how one went about that," Holley says. "It just seemed so removed from my life."

Local film venue Flicker became her inspiration, and then the showcase for her shorts. "I just got such a jolt out of it," she continues. "It was fantastic. And so I really started writing to have material to go out and shoot."

Holley tapped friends from the Richmond film community to make human cloning feature "Snowflake Crusade," which traveled to smaller fests like Seattle Underground and San Francisco Independent.

Buoyed by that success, Holley "set about to really figure out how to write a screenplay, to really do it right." After reading all the screenwriting books she could find, she drafted her breakthrough feature spec, "Sunshine Cleaning," which became her ticket to Hollywood.

Producer Glenn Williamson, a U. of Virginia grad, discovered the script while judging submissions for the Virginia Film Festival. The former Focus Features prez says he responded to Holley's strong voice and her ability to create characters with an authentic and interesting essence.

Now in pre-production with Ashley Judd and Zooey Deschanel attached to star, "Sunshine Cleaning" is the story of sisters Rose and Nora, owners of a crime scene-cleaning company. [It ended up starring Amy Adams and Emily Blunt. -- Terry]

"What's very original about this screenplay," says Williamson, "is that Holley found a way to use this bizarre, even macabre, world to tell a character story about two women trying to find themselves. And so it's this odd mix between a story of personal growth and an unusual setting."

Expect more unusual settings from Holley, who hasn't given up her day job administering relapse-prevention pharmaceuticals to drug-addicted lab rats at Virginia Commonwealth U.

VITAL STATS Age: 38 Birthplace: Evansville, Ind. Inspirations: "Getting together with my friends and telling them stories of random things that have happened. They always become a little more flowery and a little more entertaining than when I initially experienced them." Favorite unproduced script: "Eucharist," about a computer technician at a research facility who finds the face of Jesus on a human tissue sample. Script earned her a slot at the prestigious Nantucket Screenwriters Colony and won the Virginia Governor's Screenwriting Competition. Agent/manager: Jenny Fritz at Broder-Webb-Chervin-Silbermann; Colin O'Reilly at Smart Entertainment [According to IMDbPro, she's now repped by ICM. -- Terry]

2009 Expo Screenplay Competition

Sounds like a contest to me. I'm aware that the contest is associated with the convention. Duh!

Hey, Dan, I thought I was the one asking everyone else to quit whining about the extension. Is that whining if you're asking others to quit whining? If so, that makes you a whiner, Dan.

I'm still glad about the extension because my rewrite will be finished by Sept 7th.

GRAN TORINO is another example of the kind of low-budget script that could sell on InkTip. Simple story. Strong themes. Limited cast (Clint Eastwood's is the only recognizable face). Limited locations. Only sfx I noticed was the sound of gunfire. Surprise ending. I'll bet a lot of production companies could have made this film for a million or two, using a lesser star and lesser director.

According to IMDbPro, the estimated budget was $35,000,000 (Clint Eastwood directed and starred). It has grossed, so far, $262,000,000.

Congratulations, John! Is that SOLOMON'S WHALE?

Janet,

SPOILER ALERT for GRAN TORINO

I would argue that GRAN TORINO (not TORINA) is not politically uncorrect. Walt (Clint's character) starts out as a racial bigot but arcs to a man who feels closer to his Hmong neighbors than to his own family, and makes a major sacrifice to bring peace within their community. A film can have a theme of bigotry without being politically uncorrect.

And Megan Holley (author of SUNSHINE CLEANING) was discovered at a film festival in Virginia. That's hardly an inside Hollywood connection.

I thought GRAN TORINO was a pretty brave film. In order to like it, you had to empathize with a rude bigot who couldn't even give his own family a break. I think I need to watch it again to see what the save-the-cat moment was early in the story, the thing Walt did or said that put us in his corner (re: Blake Snyder).

John,

Give us the logline, or a little more.

I'm not talking about what begins Walt's character arc. I'm wondering what he does or says very early in the story to make us like him despite the fact that he's a bigot. There must be a save-the-cat moment (re: Blake Snyder), a kind word or gesture, but I don't remember what it was.

Excellent discussion, Janet. And you have a better memory for the details of GRAN TORINO then I do. I need to watch it again.

Evie, that's the most asinine remark I've seen on this board in months.

Thanks, Walter. That's exactly what I was looking for and I think you nailed it.

Dan, I didn't call Evie an asshole. I said that her remark was asinine.

Hey, Connie! We haven't heard from you for awhile. Good to hear your voice, girl!

Nick Schenk is now repped by CAA. But IMDb shows no new projects on the horizon for Nick.

Good on ya, Stephen and Irin!

Dan, Janet and Evie,

I stand thoroughly chastised. How naive of me to imagine that Clint Eastwood could make a worthwhile film with a central theme of racial bigotry. Rather than have an honest intellectual discussion about how the movie handled such a controversial theme and yet managed to make $262,000,000 worldwide, I'll pretend I haven't seen it, jump on your bandwagon and condemn the film for white presumption.

CALLIOPE made the 2nd Round before being eliminated. I'm guessing that's equivalent to quarterfinalist.

Congratulations to:

Thriller Category

Ron Brassfield, BLUE MONDAY

Peter Fraser, BLACK ICE BELOW

Comedy Category

Peter Fraser, GRIM GETS A LIFE

Eric Sentell, TRUST ME I'M LYIN'

Action/Adventure Category

Geoffrey Breuder, ACE OF ACES

Bobbette Findley, THE DEFAZIN REGENERATOR: AZTEL'S CAPTURE

Irin Evers, THE JUNIOR DETECTIVES AND THE CITIES OF GOLD

Honorable Mention

Patrick Sweeney, GHOST TRAIN

Eric Sentell, THE V JOB

My apologies for any MBBB regulars that I missed.

Sorry, Patrick. I'm adding you here to the finalists:

Thriller Category

Patrick S. Daly, CASH FROM CHAOS

Congratulations, Patrick!

From an email:

2009 AMERICAN ZOETROPE SCREENPLAY CONTEST.

THE FINAL DEADLINE HAS BEEN EXTENDED TO

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 11:59:59 PM PDT.

Oh great! Now they want social skills!

Good work, Stephen, and good luck!

Let's see... Facebook and Twitter or move to L.A. Facebook and Twitter or move to L.A.

I'm going to the liquor store.

Dan,

Are you suggesting that we should pay for feedback only from WGA members with a slew of production credits? If so, do you know of a list of WGA screenwriters with multiple production credits who are willing to provide script notes to aspiring screenwriters? Are they affordable? Barb charges $75 for a script analysis.

Congratulations, Stephen! $3,000 in prizes and money? That's like winning the showcase on The Price Is Right!

I got in with ROCHESTER. Yeah me!

Typo! Shoulda been "Yea me!"

Well, Ron, that's proof that it happens to the best of us.

Hey, Irin also made the cut in the Short Screenplay quarterfinals with "Every Time I Go to Staten Island Something Bad Happens." Congratulations, Mr. Evers!

Hoover, list Irin as your co-author. With you and Irin out of competition, the odds will improve for the rest of us. Think about it, man. You could take Irin out at the knees! You'd be a legend. And... and... and... imagine the irony of it! Irin out of competition for life for a credit he didn't really earn for a screenplay he never read! Oh, you HAVE to do it! It's too sweet! Do it, man. Don't let us down. List Irin as your co-author right now. Do it now. We will worship you. All hail the Hoover! All hail the Hoove! When someone says, "I've been Hoovered," it'll have a whole new meaning.

Dan,

I think we got your message: If you want to succeed at screenwriting, buy your advice from screenwriters who have sold scripts, not from those who haven't. Does that about sum it up?

Dan, I faced reality years before you glued hair on your balls in hopes of looking like a man. I write scripts because I like writing scripts. If one sells, that'll be great. If not, I will have spent my time doing what I enjoy doing.

Gosh, Dan, you found me out! I'm a scam artist because I used to be the editor and co-owner of the Writers Aide Screenplay Contest Newsletter. And I sold my half to my partner as soon as I discovered Moviebytes.com. That was in the previous century. Hey, everyone, I'm a scam artist because I used to take subscriptions for a quarterly newsletter that listed screenplay contests for the convenience of aspiring screenwriters. I'm pure evil! I should be vilified and shunned on the MB BB. I'm so ashamed. :-(

Hoover,

I'd like to support you. I think Gomez is a jerk. But banning someone because we don't like their comments, well, that's a slippery slope to censorship. Besides, banning someone doesn't work. We've seen people post as posers way too often to believe that anyone can be kept off the board who wants to be here. Posters like Gomez usually go away on their own. In fact, didn't he say he'd be gone from the BB a year from now?

So, I'd rather we leave Dan alone. Read him if you choose, ignore him if you choose. Treat him like Fox News -- you know it's there, that doesn't mean you have to watch it.

By the way, this is not a Constitutional issue. Frederick is not bound by the Constitution to allow anyone to post comments on his Web site any more than the Washington Post is required to print every letter to the editor it receives. Fortunately for all of us, Frederick is very reluctant to interfere with the Board he makes available to us all. For no fee, btw. Frederick does, however, offer services for which there are fees even though he hasn't sold a script (as far as I know), so I guess that, by Dan's usual reasoning, Frederick must be a scam artist like Barb Doyon and Jim Mercurio and the girls at Script Savvy and me.

From InkTip preferred newsletter:

A producer who put a call out to our writers in the preferred newsletter in May received pitches for the following two titles: "The Thrill" and "Perfect World." He no longer has these in his inbox, but wants to get in touch with the writers to discuss a possible deal. If you are the writer of either of these two titles and remember pitching them in response to a lead for scripts with action themes for the Indian market, please reply to this email so we can put the producer in contact with you.

Ditto what Mike said.

Mike,

Good title! And, I think, good concept. However, I think the story would engage the audience more if the conjoined triplets went on their murderous rampage in a place where we care about the victims. No one gives a rat's ass about the criminally insane, but what if Dead Head escaped from the asylum to a nearby children's hospital, or a school, or a sorority, or a hookers' convention, or a Vegas casino? Just what you don't want to hear -- write a different story! So, forget that.

Have you seen Ray Milland and Rosey Greer in THE THING WITH TWO HEADS? Campy, low-budget silliness from the 70s.

Good luck with the logline. DEAD HEAD sounds like a good candidate for InkTip.

Mike,

You didn't mention (at least I don't recall you mentioning) that the doctor was a female. A woman doctor in an asylum with the raging conjoined triplets AND criminally insane inmates going berserk, well, that's scary! Stay with it.

Get a reading on DEAD HEAD from the girls at Script Savvy and from Barb Doyon at Xtreme Screenplay. For less than $200, you can get a road map for a revision or rewrite.

Once again, I think that's an excellent title and concept. And it's what some producers are looking for -- low budget, no CGI, small cast, limited locations. You might be able to find a way to make it BLAIR WITCH-cheap, e.g., having an intern videotaping the doctor's rounds for a master's thesis (something like that so it can be shot on handheld digital equipment).

Not personally, James, but I thought that combining "hookers" and "convention" would get politicians flocking to the box office (pun intended).

Congratulations, Mike! Feels good, don't it?

SPOILER ALERT

I'm trying to identify the name of a James Patterson novel for a friend. Here's how it begins:

A couple are on a fire tower in the woods. They seem to be very much in love. He pushes her off the tower, killing her.

I do both.

Disney didn't create Pinocchio, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, the Sorcerer's Apprentice, Peter Pan, Tinkerbell, Captain Hook, or the Little Mermaid. They're all from classic fairy tales or folk tales and they are in the public domain. Disney has added some extra characters (e.g., Lumiere the talking candlestick in Beauty and the Beast is probably a Disney creation), but so have many other retellers and filmmakers. You could create a movie using all these classic characters without having to obtain permission from anyone.

I think Gordy should have a mechanism to ensure that it's one writer, one vote. Maybe limit voting to writers who have entered the Bluecat contest or used their services.

Cat, there are ways of voting multiple times if you're computer savvy, which I am not.

Gordy probably doesn't want to change the system. Right now, it has the appearance of 20,000 Web site visits. He can use numbers like that in promoting his Web site and contest.

Here's a lead from InfoList:

SCRIPTS WANTED - MUSICALS

--------------- Mysterytrain Productions - Musical, Younger Characters ---------------

We are looking for completed feature-length musical scripts containing characters under the age of 30. We are looking for something with adolescent or twenty-something characters, i.e. "Spring Awakening" or "Rent." We are NOT looking for tween-aged, squeaky-clean, "High School Musical" types of stories. Budget has yet to be determined. WGA and Non-WGA writers may submit. Our credits include Producer on the CBS series "Judging Amy" and Emmy nominee on "Ally McBeal."

TO SUBMIT: 1. Please go to www.InkTippro.com/leads 2. Enter your email address (you will be signing up for InkTip's newsletter - FREE!) 3. Copy/Paste this code: 3tzy4q9etz 4. You will be submitting a logline and synopsis only,

IMPORTANT: Please ONLY submit your work if it fits what the lead is looking for EXACTLY.

If you aren't sure if your submission fits, please ask InkTip first. Please mention you heard about this from Jeff Gund at INFOLIST.com and please email any questions to: jerrol@inktip.com

Janet,

Neither Natalie Portman nor Mila Kunis, the stars of BLACK SWAN, is anorexic. Nor do they look anorexic. And, imho, it's an excellent film.