Message Board

Email them and ask. They're really, really cool about responding to people with questions. nicholl@oscars.org I would assume that $5,000 from another contest regarding script A. would count as too much. It seems the rule exists to keep the playing field level and if a script has won another contest, that puts it ahead of the field. So it's just my speculation, but I'd assume that's a prob. Let us know what kind of response you get.

Not to kiss Greg Beal's butt, but that last posting couldn't be more spot on.

They do an outstanding job.

Thanks, Greg, and your entire staff.

Any one here have any dealings with JAF Entertainment in Los Angeles?

I too had a similar meeting as described above. They also said they wanted 50% of the script sale price if it sold. Keep in mind, they get a producer fee if they sell something so this is double dipping. My meeting also lasted only a few minutes. They called me in due to a script they were interested in then gave me the similar, "We don't pitch specs", line. Be careful with these guys. They have no films made but brag about major sales over the last 12 years. It doesn't add up. Be very careful!

Anyone have any experience with this contest? There are no report cards filled out here.

How do you guys feel about competitions that don't allow your name or contact info on the title pages?

I understand the theory is to give everyone an equal footing. If Wm. Goldman entered a script, his name alone would most likely generate a favorite review. I understand. But in reality, name writers don't enter contests.

My concern is, if you have a really fabulous script out here with no name or contact info on it, it makes it that much easier to steal with a rationalization, "Hey, there was no way to get in touch with them". Like it or not, this industry does have its fair share of scammers.

I mean in no way to offend the contests with great reputations, I'm just curious as to how other writers feel about this contest practice.

I know, I know...I didn't mean to start a strain dealing with copywriting or how to protect yourself. We all know the "should do's" (hopefully), I'm more curious as to what you all think about the no name on the title page thing.

Great reply, Babs, but you're in a small, small minority, aren't you? Not many of us can claim to have friends on judging committees. Out of curiosity, why do you raise your brows if they don't use this system? I can understand the "treat the script as the script and judge it blindly" theory, and I agree with it completely. I'm just paranoid about having something out there without my name on it.

You have a PLAY that's 100 pages and growing? I'd suggest a major, major edit. Dump it all out now, of course, then go back and refine. A 90 page play usualy runs around 2, 2 1/2 hours. Moree than that and you're getting loooooong. But dump it all out and then go from there. Good luck!

I think it works in the "no soft comments" way. Sure, it's a crapshoot, and you might get some idiotic readers, but then again, you may get a few who have good opinions. I think it's a cool theory because people aren't afraid of offending you there. They'll give it to you straight. The downside is there are a lot of people who don't know what they're doing and could piss you off. The worst part of Zoetrope is having to read and review 4 scripts first. I've done it where the ones I got assigned to choose from were absolutely wretched and painful to get through. But then again, I've sometimes been surprised and treated by fabulous scripts as well. (though rarely) As noted, it's all a crapshoot.

Any Lit agency that advertises itself as offering classes for pay and paid memberships is a no go in my book. I looked them up on Variety.com and they have no news stories about them which means they've probably sold no feature scripts for clients. (though I could be wrong). I'd stay away from this one. If it looks like a duck...and walks like a duck...chances are it ain't a princess.

Here's their link: www.bawnagency.com/

Plus, they're based out of Cincinatti, Ohio. How good a hotbed of screenplay business is located there?

Be cautious.

I just don't know how smart a contest it is to enter now that they've changed the director element. With another, novice director shooting your story, I don't know if that's worth taking a chance on. Face it, the majority of the TV show was in the pre-production and shooting of the movie. Once the writer is removed from that element the true focus will be on the director steering the ship, not the writer who wrote it. And since it IS a TV show looking for drama, maybe they pick a charasmatic director who's very saucy but is a completely wrong fit for your script. It sure would add drama if they show the writer bitching and moaning about the director mauling the script. It'll be AWESOME TV (God bless Pete for giving us some truly fabulous moments where you actually find yourself YELLING at him through the TV) but I'm not convinced it's a smart move. The novice director thing scares me.

You guys have mentioned luck with WSN as far as requests go, but what's the QUALITY of the requests? If they're small, one guy operations the interest is nice but how practical is it they'll get something made for you? No insults meant or intended at all. I know a foot in the door's a foot in the door. I'm just curious as to what kind of companies and agencies are requesting scripts from these sights. Thanks for answering!

So what's your take on this, everyone? The $30.00 a head seems like an awful big profit margin for them. On top of the money the'll receive from HBO for the show.

What do all of you think?

I', nervous about it too. Especially since the Greenlight people will be making a lot of money off it. At $30 an entry, times 10,000 entrants, that's a $300,000,000.00 profit. And with no way to make sure people are being fair, I'm not certain there is a valid way to do it. It's tricky this time out.

They were managers at Warren Zide/Craig Perry's company before they split off and formed their own. American Pie was Zide/Perry. Bender was a manager for the writer. They're climbing the charts. They just opened a talent division with a former agent from CAA.

They're good guys. I have friend's who're repped by them.

Sorry, "friends".

I've had the exact opposite experience of what Greg Beal posted above. Like anything, it's a crap shoot.

I submitted a script last year that just missed the quarter finals. I got a very nice handwritten letter from Greg telling me that it was in the next 10%.

After a major re-write, lots of trimming and tightening, I submitted again this year and didn't get anything but a reject. Luckily enough, the script's been pursued this summer by a production company at Fox who're putting it together with talent and out to directors. (It all just happened this week)

No sour grapes at all. I'm just painting a picture for you. It all depends on whose lap your script lands in.

Obviously, mine landed poorly this year.

Sh*t happens.

For every story like mine, there's a positive one, I'm sure.

The readers make all the difference in the world.

My concern is, with a contest that large, how can their readers ALL be good ones? It seems mathematically impossible. I'm assuming SOME of them must be interns or people who'll agree to read.

I have no idea.

Again, no sour grapes at all. Just curious.

How can you NOT be entertained by the PGL message boards? They're hysterical to me. Certain personalities display themselves and say absolutely insane things that are incredibly funny to me. I LOVE it and am saddened that the boards are down.

True, here it's much more civilized and grown up. I come here when I want to actually get some useful information or intelligent debate. But there, it's just insanity.

It's funny to me.

The bummer is, they charged everyone $30 to enter and said it was becuase the website costs so much to run. Well, with 11,000 entries you're looking at more than $350,000 in generated income. I don't think it costs $350,000 to run a website that's primarilly only used heavily for three months.

They've been saying for more than a week now that the boards are down to stabilize the sight. With $350,000 I'd think you'd stabilize it pretty quickly.

Ebay and Amazon don't collapse every day.

Greg, calm down. I've noted more than once on these boards my respect for you and your team.

Unfortunately, while you so readily, and quickly pointed a finger at the re-write making it worse, you conveinently skipped over the part about a production team attaching themselves and sending it out to talent, directors.

I stand by my statement. It's a crap shoot. You don't know who you're going to get. You didn't like the way I phrased it, but I said the exact same thing you did. You don't know who'll get your script. It IS a crapshoot. That's life.

That was kind of a cheap shot about the re-write.

You've always been super cool and a great example of how people who run a screenplay contest SHOULD be.

Nothing's guaranteed in life. There are no promises. I was speaking from personal experience. Experience which proves that ultimately, it all depends on whose lap it lands in.

Out of curiosity: If you have more than 6,000 scripts come in and they average 100 pages each, how's it possible to have agents and working professionals reading them? Anyone who lives and works here in Hollywood knows that agents are busy reading their client's stuff and prospective client's stuff all the time. Producers are busy reading marketplace stuff. How do these working pros make time to read Nichol's scripts?

The comment about interns wasn't meant to be offensive at all. It's meant as a real expectation. It's WONDERFUL to hear that's not the case with you guys. Exceedingly so. But it's a fair assumption for anyone who's seen the system work.

Again, no sour grapes at all. Your contest is awesome. I mean that.

Sorry for the "Nichol" typo.

We can agree to disagree, I guess.

You've avoided answering my biggest question. But that's cool. You're using the re-write as a very convenient scapegoat.

Nicholl's still the best competition around in my opinion.

The above reads really negatively. I didn't mean that at all.

Let's not start a silly flame war.

My apologies.

After looking at their SCRIPTS SOLD page, it doesn't appear to have anything of note. Hey, a sale's a sale, I know. But I only see options to smaller companies and the films they talk about shot with actors no one knows.

Again, an option's an option. I just wonder if the users of the service are of note. Sure, posters here have said someone from Wm. Morris looked at their log line but I see no reports of Wm. Morris or any other noted agencies signing people from it.

Am I reading it wrong?

I wonder if anyone's had any valid success other than, "Someone read my logline".

Anyone? Word of mouth is a cool thing on these boards. Glad to hear your opinions and experiences. It's good to share with those who may not know.

Calm down, Steve. It was just a question.

http://www.moviebytes.com/NewsStory.cfm?StoryID=1249

Anybody know anything about this? The time frame seems REALLY short in regard to reading and moving along (which is GREAT for writers). I wrote to inquire, just out of curiosity, as to who they are and what they're about, but have gotten no reply.

Fredrick, do you know anything? Their website tells nothing about them and who they are.

The parent company is a fundrasing outfit.

Anyone?

Thanks for the post, Frederick. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Okay. I hear ya. My bad.

Bob Z.,

I just learned something new. Thanks for educating me. But what if the website allready existed and had been in existence for a year?

No start-up costs there, right? Especially if you pitched it as a TV show. I imagine the licensing fees would cover that no problem. No one was into this thing to lose money and last year's contest was free. I don't think LivePlanet would have shelled out a quarter million bucks just to do it with no return. And this year there's an entry fee. That's all bonus money.

But I could be wrong.

Anyone?

This year's PGL's site is the same exact thing as last year's. Only this year, it doesn't work.

The message boards (a large part of the contest's entertainment factor) worked steady last year but this year were shut down two weeks ago. They put up a notice aying they were being fixed but that was two weeks ago and nothing's been re-instated.

With 11,000 entries at $30 a pop, that's $330,000 dollars. Miramax pays for the film and HBO pays for the show. So where does the $330,000.00 go?

Six months from now the site will be dead (or appear that way in comparison to the heavy traffic now during the competition). So where does all that cash go?

For $330,000.00 you'd think they'd find a way to stabilize the site.

Ebay doesn't crash every day.

Amazon doesn't crash every day.

It looks like someone at LivePlanet's taking a hell of a lot of dough and walking away with it.

It's not like prize money's going to contestants.

Miramax spends that.

Am I wrong?

I mean Miramax pays for the budget of the film, they don't reap the profits of the contest entry fees.

Greg,

Talking about Nicholl's, I'll defer to your judgement and expertise every time. But about this, I don't agree at all.

As far as shooting the show, HBO pays for that. The licensing fee. Nothing comes out of their (PGL) pocket. That's the purpose of selling a show to a network ahead of time. It's not a spec show they reimburse you for every week.

Shooting the film? That's on Miramax's dime. Marketing costs? PUH-LEASE! Matt Damon & Ben Affleck are two of the world's biggest stars. They have a publicist arrange a press day and tons of media outlets show up to cover it. Especially since it's a great opportunity for an unknown person to be discovered. It's perfect human interest.

PLUS, with the show being as huge as it was, and the contest as well, it's like Nicholl's...People KNOW about it already. It's got a reputation.

Marketing costs are covered by HBO for the show and Miramax for the movie.

In regard to paying people to review scripts (like you guys have to for Nicholl's), PGL doesn't have to because the reviewers are all other contestants. Contestants who've paid the fee.

You are right about the number. I DON'T know if the official number is 11,000. I was quoting something from the message boards. But you're absolutely correct. It could be higher or lower. I have nothing to back that number up.

Last year there was no entry fee at all. This year, $30. Are you telling me they lost money last year? I assume not. No one would start a venture that was destined to lose money.

The website costs them money, absolutely. But without it they'd have no way of having the other contestants read and review the scripts. So it's a cost of business.

I'm not an internet guru so I have no idea how much it costs to run a website but another poster out here said his site (a fairly large one) is (I think) $2000 a month to keep up. That's $24,000 a year. Tripple it, just to be fair, and say it costs PGL $72,000 a year to run theirs and add two tech guys at $50,000 a year to run it. That's $172,000.00 (an extremely inflated amount). If you have 10,000 paid entries at $30 apiece...That's $128,000.00 gravy.

Again, those numbers are inflated.

It seems to me there's a lot of profit here. I don't blame them for it at all. I say, "Good for you!". It's an AWESOME opportunity for people. But don't expect us to believe anyone's losing money on this deal.

That's ridiculous.

"Go to everyone else looking at your screenplay and tell them about your option offer. Give them a limited time, maybe a week, to make their own offer."

Are you CRAZY? And what do you tell the company that's made the offer? "Please give me a week while I search for a better offer"?

If you're going to make a call to spur on the other companies, you give them a 24 hour window. That's it. Or if you're lucky enough to have it, a weekend.

Anything else and you potentially lose the option deal from the original company.

Nothing entices like someone else wanting something. Capitalize on that and light a fire under them with a 24 or 48 hour window.

Nothing more.

Greg,

Please decide on a point to make and stick with it.

You never answered my question: Do you think they personally lost money last year? I can't say for certain, but I'll assume not. Licensing fees for a TV show are pretty good. HBO money is really good. Having golden boys Ben Affleck and Matt Damon associated with your network is also really good. Very much so.

As far as your point about Affleck and Damon paying the publicist, you don't actually believe they paid for that out of pocket do you? That's scary if you do.

The show was pitched to HBO. HBO bought it. It's a show on HBO and a contest from MIRAMAX for a feature that'll be distributed by MIRAMAX.

Who do YOU think paid for the publicist?

Not Matt & Ben. In order to promote the show that was most likely HBO.

Why are you so convinced that they are paying for everything? That's insanity.

As far as charging people, I never said it was bad. In fact, I said quite clearly, good for them for making a buck. But please spare us the, "They're spending their money", bit. That's not very probably true.

And please stop comparing Nicholls with PGL. They're two very different beasts. No network is airing a show about the Nicholls contest. You guys need every dollar and then some, I'd imagine, to make it all happen. No one subsidizes you, right?

GREAT for them! PGL rocks and are giving thousands of people an unbelievable chance. I think they're awesome. But if they have money coming in and pitch their interactive website and message boards as a part of their contest, make sure they work.

It's been two weeks now and the boards are still down with a message saying they're, "down to help stabilize the site and will be back up soon." With the money generated though entry fees, the site should be fully operational.

That's all. No one's calling them thieves or liars. It's just a point of contention. And a hard one to argue against, I think.

And incidentally, they didn't "require" LOC registration or WGA registration. Where are you getting that from? That's a "recommendation" not a requirement.

I take you made it to the next round? Good for you! Congrats!

The debate between Greg and I shouldn't bum you out. These boards are littered with people who're far too sensitive. This is a business. A business. It's got creativity and art at it's base, but ultimately, it's a business.

As soon as people get real about that, they're much better off.

If you made it to the Top 250 that is great! Good for you! Congrats and good luck with the rest of the contest!

Sorry. You are correct about that. I'll concede that point.

What about the rest? What leads you to believe they're paying for the contest, shooting and marketing themselves?

You took the time to explain the rule above clearly. How about answering the other issues addressed?

Let's forget the debate, Gary. It's no big deal. I just enjoy getting into a good one now and then.

No harm, no foul. We're all good!

Congrats to all the PGL 250's across the board!

I'm not sure.

Fredrick?

Sorry, "Frederick"?

There are tons of postings here. Scroll down.

Solid answer. The service is free. If you were charging that'd be one thing. For free this thing is unbelieveable.

Thanks, Frederick.

Let's hope and pray that Fredrick never goes down that road and offers some sort of contest here. The cool thing about moviebytes is that almost all of the postings are mature and thought out.

I've gotten into a few exchanges and debates here, for sure, but they've never sunk to the levels we've all seen on other sites.

So Fredrick, please don't ever take the temptation. You'd earn a ton of dough, but in the end it'd just turn this place into one like all the others.

Just a thought.

Good for you, Frederick. Thanks.

I disagree though about one thing...This site is cool now because there ISN'T any contest or reason to draw the masses.

The minute there is? THAT's when the flood gates open.

Okay, enough butt kissing.

Good job.

Skip the agents. They generally only care about money offers. They don't care much about "building" careers. Their job is to get money.

Dillon's management rep is Rick Yorn at The Firm:

The Firm/AMG 9465 Wilshire Blvd. Beverly Hills CA 90212 310/860-8000 (f)310/860-8100

Managers of high caliber talent also don't generally care. But if you call them you can ask if they have a production entity. Then you call the production company they own and try to convince them to give it a read.

A star with a production company is more likely to read something they could in turn produce. Your chances are still small, but your odds are much better this way.

Good luck!

The website link on the moviebytes notice for this contest now leads to a different place. Some sort of business.

Does anyone have any info about what's going on with this thing?

They haven't replied to any emails asking questions.

I know there are some big fans of WSN, but I don't get it. Looking at their "success" posts leaves me wondering. They just seem to be kind of waving hope in front of people who don't know any better.

NO INSULT INTENDED at all!

I just have yet to read anything there that says a major studio purchased anything. Most of those notices seem hopeful and cool, but not really anything big.

Before you WSN fans start blasting, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'd just be curious to hear some real success stories from people who've posted there and had a sale or job opportunity as a result. Downloads are cool, but don't really seem to mean much industry-wise.

Please educate me if I'm incorrect.

It's very scary. Every email I've sent has been sent back with cryptic answers.

This contest was a huge scam.

Frederick, I'd suggest removing it from the site immediately. It's a major scam.

Emails sent tonight were responded to with the same vague, unanswering answers.

All that leads to is a site called ONE STEP BEYOND. A web designer site. Am I crazy?

Cool. Thanks for your thoughts Miriam and Steve.

Good luck to both of you.

Every time I do it leads to ONE STEP BEYOND DESIGN. I've tried through Internet Explorer and through Netscape. I've tried all the suggestions listed here and each time it just leads to ONE STEP BEYOND DESIGN.

When I send emails to them they're answered, but very cryptically and with no clear answer.

I asked two simple questions:

1. Is the contest happening? 2. What's going on with the website misdirection?

Each time the answers have been: Give us your entry name and password.

When I asked why that was important, why not just answer the questions, I was sent a Word document that can't be opened without a password.

It's just really strange.

Are you guys actually finding the website?

My computer has no problems and finds everything else I type in. plus it DID find the site when I entered through the screenprize.com address listed here.

How're you guys finding it? It's bizarre.

"plus it DID find the site when I entered through the screenprize.com address listed here." (originally, back when the contest was first posted here)

Nice. Thanks for the responses everyone.

I finally received an explanation from them. Apparently their hoster is having tech problems and it should be resolved soon.

Thanks again for your answers and input.

Does anybody know a good site to look up revenue generated from video sales? IMDB only lists box office generated.

I'm trying to find out how much Jon Favreau's SWINGERS made via video rentals and sales.

Box office was only $4.5 million (with the cultural swell from it, it seems like it would've made so much more, doesn't it?) but I know it made a killing in video.

Where might I find this info? Anyone know?

Thanks!

If it's just to hear your stuff read back to you, don't waste efforts on doing the industry thing. It's hard as heck to get industry types interested in a reading if you don't have well known, successful actors reading and if you're not a proven writer. They'd rather sit home and read it rather than trek out to a reading of something that might suck. (In their opinion)

But a reading to hear your stuff and guage what works and what doesn't doesn't is a GREAT tool. There are a few VERY important things to do though.

1. Get actors you KNOW are good. Not friends or people you think you owe. You want to hear it done right.

2. Also, it sounds like common sense, but make sure they're actors who can read well. I've been to readings with actors who're great at memorizing and delivering lines, but reading itself is a problem. And trust me, that'll both frustrate and kill you.

3. Kill unneeded narration! TRUST me, you THINK it makes a big difference and that you really NEED all the narration, but you don't. If the dialogue is solid, that moves the story along. I'm not talking about killing all of it, but the stuff you just don't need. The superfluous stuff.

Have someone you trust very much go through it with a black marker and kill every single line of narration you just don't need. Reading narration is one thing. Hearing it in a reading is another. If you do it yourself you'll think you're being neutral, but you're not. A blind eye is better.

I did a reading of a script of mine that a lot of industry people showed up to and it went really well, but I wish I'd listened to the friend who'd suggested cutting more narrative. It slowed things a bit.

If it's not absolutely essential - LOSE IT!

Black it out then make copies of that and give them to your actors so they know what's cut.

4. Make damned well sure your narrator is a FANTASTIC reader and a great actor. It's a crucial part of the reading.

5. Make sure your actors read the script ahead of time and have a grasp of the character. A cold reading does you no good.

6. Videotape it so you can hear it back. Don't worry about the images. A video tape will just allow you not to have to worry so much about jotting notes while you're (I'm assuming) taking part in the reading yourself.

7. Have a great time with it!

Let us know how it goes for you.

Good luck!

Excellent addition, Tom. Absolutely.

The thing is though, if it's just to hear your stuff read out loud, it's kind of hard to get people to rehearse for it. If it's an industry read, ABSOLUTELY! But if not, you may have a difficult time getting people to do that.

Just make sure the casting is right ahead of time to avoid an issue like Tom's.

The wonderful world of theatah! Where anything can happen live...and always does.

No, a fax to her publicist will get tossed.

I'd mail a letter. Chances are they won't give out an email on the phone and even if they do, with the number of viewers she has it'll more likely get lost in the hundreds of, "Oprah, please choose my mom and do another Magic Makeover" show!

Best of luck!

Holy crap, Kris!

Good (knock on wood) for you.

Break a finger.

Jay Simpson- Hilarious.

The correct term is proprietress, but it reads too politically correct for the late 1800's.

You may just want to stick with proprietor due to the time period. If she's the exception to the rule in your script, this makes it stand out even more so.

Just an opinion...

I wouldn't be so brash as to ask if they're interested in making your movie. Wait a week then mail a letter inquiring about the read. Inlcude your script's name and the date it was downloaded. I'm not certain how much ingo WSN gives you, but if they give you a name of whomever downloaded it (which I HOPE they do), address the letter to that person.

If it's a hard copy of a script, you're kind of in noman's land becasue you're never sure if/when they'll read it. But with WSN one would assume they downloaded it to read it.

I'd also think about enclosing a SASE so there's no excuse for not responding.

Keep in mind, they may have read ten pages and stopped reading (hopefully not), so there's no guarantee of getting a response. But at least this way you'll have covered all your bases.

Write the letter ahead of time so you can just pop it in the mail on the 10th day allowing for delivery time.

Keep in mind, a two week follow up is rarely adviseable with hard copies of a script. I'm just suggesting this becasue they downloaded it. Also keep in mind with the holidays, you may not get a response until after the first of the year.

You'll most likely hear a lot of different opinions here (that's why Moviebytes is awesome!) take from them what you will and find the best answer that works for you.

Good luck with it!

Sorry, that's "info".

Wow...please pardon all my typos. It's early and I haven't woken up yet. I abhor typos. Spell check is an easy thing to use.

My bad...

A follow up is never a bad idea unless it's done too soon.

It may generate an answer or it may not, but it doesn't hurt to send one. Best case scenario it reminds someone to read something or you get a standarized form letter, worst case, they chuck the letter and script.

No harm, no foul.

Just make sure you leave adequate time.

I agree with the above. If you have options on scripts already I'd assume you have some contacts of your own. Most writers here who post aren't steadily working, "inside" writers.

Your offer seems rather generous but also rather risky. How're you going to know who you're getting into bed with? How do you know they're good in a room?

If they're able to get scripts of yours in a door they'll most likely be interested in pushing their own stuff first.

If you have options and strong scripts I'd suggest sending out some queries to managements or agents first. Why give up half profits for nothing?

I wouldn't even WANT to see what your poor email account looks like already. I imagine you might be swamped with offers from people who can't really help you.

Just my two cents. (and probably worth half that)

Good luck!

Wow! The comments for this contest are incredible to read. Three 1st placed winners posting. Amazing. Seems they've all had different experiences with the contest. It'll be interesting to see what happens this year.

It's really interesting to hear the negative feedback from a grandprize winner and a category winner. Those people obviously don't have sourgrapes about losing. But there's also positive feedback from others. I guess it's like anything else. The only dismaying thing is the reports of not getting paid.

Any of you 1/4 finalists hear anything yet? Word was that the next round hear by March 5th.

I think the letter said something about being notified no later than March 5th. Right?

"Semi-finalists will be judged by signatory agents and managers, and those advancing into these rounds will be notified by mail and/or telephone no later than March 5th."

What's funny is if you read the letters they just sent out regarding the semi-finalists. Inise the letter is a list of the 93 semi-finalists and a coupon for $100 off script analysis. Then, in the text of the letter itself, it says, if you didn't make it to the semi's it probably means your script needs some work. So take advantage of this wonderful offer from FadeIn and send us a check for $295. Normally it's $395 for coverage but we're giving you $100 off!

Man, it was scary. To be taking advantage of writers like that in the same letter listing all the others who made it is extremely tacky. FadeIn could've very easily sent another letter outside of that. $400 for script coverage? Who do they think they're kidding?

Tacky.

http://www.fadeinmag.com/Contests/awards.htm

For some reason the link in an above posting didn't work for me. Here's another in case some of you have problems.

It won't let me back in. I've re-registered 10 or more times but all's I keep getting is the, "You must re-register" screen. I've also written to them about it but have received no reply.

I just assumed they were having tech problems but it sounds like a bunch of you are getting in with no problems.

Nope. neither net nor com works for me. It used to work fine but since their changes, I can't get in. I've re-registered at both five or six times now expecting the glitch to be cured but nothing works. And they won't reply to emails.

No biggie.

I've worked with them years ago if it's the same company. Is there a Brian and a Melanie involved?

If so, they were extremely cool six years ago. Their biggest film that I know of (if this is them) is something called WHISKEY DOWN with Alana Ubach and Sean Flannery (I think).

Every neighborhood has it's own quirks and coolness here. The above posting is correct: Different places have much different prices. If you have kids and are looking for affordable housing you might want to try the Valley. Burbank is really cool and feels a lot less stressful than the Hollywood side of the hill. Warner Bros. is in Burbank. But if you're looking to be near the studios you're out of luck. Most of them are in west L.A. and the rents/housing costs there are really, really high. But once you're here you get used to driving so Burbank isn't a far stretch at all. Orange County is far away. Don't think about it. Unless you're driving at 3:00am a five mile trip takes an hour. You don't state where you're coming from so keep in mind that prices and real estate are really high here compared to most places in the country. I'd suggest planning a week out here to take a look. It's a huge place with tons to check out. I'd go on line and do some research ahead of time so you don't start from scratch. That way you have an attack plan. Good luck!

Someone above made a great point about creating another hoop to jump through. I'm not accusing anyone of anything so don't get on my case, Storybay...But the potential for danger is pretty high.

If a company charges you to read and review your script they have a profit motive. So you send in your script and it's read and reviewed by an intern or someone random you don't know anything about. All these sites call them, "professional studio readers", but with the amount of scripts the studios get every day, where are these people coming from?

So anyway...You have your script read by a reviewing company and they then can return your script with notes telling you why it's not ready for submission yet. And for just a few dollars more you can get the full review with notes and blah blah blah.

The potential for trouble is huge.

Fade In Magazine sent out letters to their quarter finalists announcing those who did and didn't make it to the semi's. Inside, along with the list of those who moved on, was a coupon for $100 off the $350 Fade In script notes service that'll make your script much stronger!

It was kind of shameful.

Hey, i fault no one for wanting to make a profit. That's business. But using services like these and validating them opens the door to let them become the norm.

With all these services that've popped up, how many people have actually had movies bought and made from them?

I know there are the stories you hear about Options! And hook-ups, but I've yet to hear any real success stories.

I could, of course, be wrong and will most likely be flamed with responses from people who run these sites, but I'd think twice.

Just my two cents. (and probably worth half that)

Yes, that site is way too mysterious. No names, nothing. Just a bunch of really vague films. If they're a management company it reads like they're just listing credits some of their clients have appeared in.

Anything that has an ABOUT US link and doesn't give you any names is extremely shady.

Maine? I'm from New England myself so be prepared for the shock of a place far, far different than NY. In NY subways, taxis and busses are convenient but keep in mind the islands only 7miles by 3 miles or something like that. this is a car city. No excuses about it. If you don't have reliable transportation you're MLS (Major League Screwed) and SOL (You figure it out).

Silverlake is cool but it's a younger more hipper community. I don't have kids but live in Hollywood (very near Silverlake) and aren't sure that's where I'd go first place. But hopefully others might have a better idea.

Looks like you've got two of us pitching Burbank to you. I love it there. It's only five minutes from hollywood but the stress level is a 6 compared to a 9 on the LA side of the hill.

The above info and phone number for Re-Max is a great idea.

Another thing...Keep in mind that rush hour here starts at 3:00 and goes until 8:00. It's crazy. There's no such thing as a short trip anywhere on the freeways unless it's in the off hours.

The MOST IMPORTANT THING I CAN advise you to do, without fail is to buy a Thomas Guide for L.A. when you get here. It's a detailed Mapbook with about 700 pages that allows you to look up exactly where you need to go and how to get there. It's invaluable. Especially if you're out here househunting or looking on your own. They're about $30 and worth their weight in gold. Trust me. Buy one the minute you get into town and you'll use it for years.

More hipper?

Sweet Jesus, I'm losing it.

Sorry for the typos.

Being an east-coaster you'll find the architecture strange. It's either old, Mexican influenced stuff or a lot of that stuff you're talking about above.

Burbank isn't known for having tons of unique architecture, but it's clean and very residential. I don't have kids so I'm not familiar with the school system there but do have friends with kids who haven't complained.

I have a snobby attitude about east-coast education being a lot stronger, but I could be wrong now. Perhaps a lot has changed grammarschool-wise.

You'll be fine.

You say you're coming out here for a movie? What're you doing? What'd you get? Share the love. Good for you!

Santa Monica is beautiful but very, very expensive. And it takes forever to get anywhere because the 10 is the only highway and it's always jammed. The rents in S.M. will kill 7you compared to those in Burbank. And the part about Venice is true. It's a shady area not good for kids.

Holy crap, Beal's not only a contest runner but a relocation specialist too!

Good advice posted from Greg. It looks again like Burbank's a high scorer.

Nice!

Holy crap! THIS is why this site's so cool. Look at the expert help you're being offered. That's awesome, just awesome.

Good luck with the yacht scene. And way to go, all you experienced people who're cool enough to offer help. That's super nice.

The .pdf thing is key, but I think the new Final Draft (6?) allows you to do that too. If you're using 4 you should get an update. I like FD. It's what I know (and that seems to be the case with everyone here). So maybe we ought to stop posting about which ones we like and just have dualie users post their opines.

Here's a question for you guys...

What happens with old movie prints? X2 is opening this weekend on more than 6,000 screens. Therefore, more than 6,000 prints exist. A year from now when it's long gone from theaters, what do the studios do with the prints?

Do they burn them? Toss them? What's the deal?

Common sense says they must keep some for history's sake, but how many and where are they stored?

I've searched the internet but can't seem to find any info on this. It's not a big deal, my curiosity's just been piqued.

Thanks for sharing the info if any of you know.

Thanks for answering. But let me rephrase (sorry for the confusion): I know the prints go back to the studios, but what do THEY do with them?

You certainly don't need 8,000 35mm prints of Harry Potter laying around.

Thanks for any info you or anyone else digs up.

Definitely write a one-act. It can be a long one-act if you like (Albee's ZOO STORY is a long one-act) but pay attention to some of the things others here have said. In a One-Act, less characters are better. It gives them a chance to communicate. Play writing is a talent. Dialogue is the key element and not everyone has that ability. ZOO STORY is dated now, but still holds true. And Mamet is a master of dialogue. But don't write like him becasue it screws up your actors too much having sentences like, "But I thought-", "What're you-" "Huh?". He never finishes sentences! Good luck with it.

Bump.

Sorry, I'm just really curious about this.

I understand, Marcel, I agree. But please know I'm asking about what happens when their run is over and done. Not dwindling. I'm talking about out of the theater and done. A year later.

Gil,

Great question. If this ISN'T the place to ask a question like that, I don't where is.

I live in LA and attend a very well known script reading thing where writers are invited to share their criticisms and ideas about a screenplay. And the thing is, each time I go, I say it'll be my last time because the writers who bravely open themselves up for criticism are more times than not, rewarded with insane thoughts and opinions from the scribes in attendance.

Instead of just offering their concerns or problems with the read, a lot of people offer suggestions about how they think the script should read. And that's crazy.

I.E., if you have a lead character who's unbelieveable for some reason, the criticism should be: "I had a hard time buying the lead's position. He's a private eye but I wasn't exactly certain about where he was going or how he got to where he's at. The dialogue read a little expositional for me. I think he's got a lot of promise and I really WANTED to like him, but felt a little confused."

NOT: "I didn't really get your lead. What I'd do is maybe make him a Cattle Rancher who has quirks. Maybe he has a secret desire to be a square dancing champion or something. THAT would be really cool!"

SHUT-UP!

Maybe it's just not a great group for you to be involved with. Unfortunately, as posted above, a lot of times you get writers who think they're Goldman who have absolutely no tact at all. And that's not a healthy environment for you to be in.

Maybe your script does suck, but it's not my place to be offensive and crass. Who the hell am I to do that? Who the hell is ANYONE (Goldman included) to do that?

But make sure you're aware that these people are everywhere. It's part of the game. A part you either have to get comfortable with or walk away from.

Personally, I'm not that comfortable with it so I know when to walk away from stuff like that.

Criticism, when done right, leaves you feeling hopeful and kind of ashamed for not having figured it out yourself. But criticism done harshly and with superiority is extremely insulting.

Saying something probably won't get you anywhere. The tactful approach might be to make an announcement during a session where your work isn't being critiqued. An open statement to the group suggesting the "flies with honey" approach. If you explain it this way on a day it's not your work being ripped, that could open some eyes. Or at least cause people to think twice before lambasting someone.

Just my two cents.

Let us know what happens.

After re-reading my post, I wanted to let you know I've never had anything I wrote critiqued or ripped apart at that group thing I go to. I'm not sour-graping. My obvservations about the group element are totally observational, not personal.

Michael,

Are you KIDDING me? Let it go? Your posting is EXACTLY what I was hoping to find. I can't thank you enough for finding/posting it.

That's awesome.

Thanks so much for doing so. Now I know.

Incidentally, Michael...What was your source for that?

Don't let it make you nuts. You're going through a normal phase of "first timer's disease". Funny thing is, you'll look back at this draft in years to come and laugh about it because after re-writes and everything else, it'll most likely read like crap to you.

But I applaud your excitement.

Do yourself a favor and don't hold your breath waiting to hear anything. Nicholl is one of the best of the best and they get like 7,000 entries or something. Put it out of your mind and get cracking on something else. Or dive into the re-write and start improving or changing it now. That way, when the next contest happens, whatever it may be, you'll have a newer draft ready to go.

But most importantly, have fun with it. It's a (miserable but) fun process. Sort of like waiting for Christmas when you're a kid.

For everyone interested about the process, go to the Nicholl site (the link is here on Moviebytes) and read the info.

They've put up a pretty informative FAQ and info page that tells you a lot of stuff you may be interested in knowing.

If you're not willing to learn to drive don't even THINK about moving to L.A. It's not like NY or other cities with great mass transit. The bus system takes forever and the subway system is new and pretty useless.

You HAVE to drive in L.A. Cabs and taxis will cost you more than rent to get around with because the city's laid out over 40 square miles. No matter where you live, studios aren't close because they're all spread apart. You may live close to one, but if you get a deal with another, that could be miles away.

I don't think there's anyone who's ever lived here who'd disagree.

Sounds like you're kind of putting the cart before the horse anyway. If you're fortunate enough to sell a script and move here, that's great. Good for you. But you'll still need to drive to meetings and just to get around. The grocery store, shopping, whatever.

I assume you live in NYC if you've survived this long w/o a license, but here in L.A. you won't survive very well without one.

And if you do win the Nicholl, that's only $30,000. I don't know how it's paid out but I assume it's not a $30,000 check. After taxes and everything else, that's not a ton of dough if you have to add taxis into the equation.

I have a friend who works at a studio. He lives about 11 miles away. When his car broke down and he was without it for a few weeks, he had to take an 8:00 bus to get to work by 10:00. Two hours for 11 miles.

Also factor in living expenses and incidentals and that money goes quick without a vehicle.

Thinking you'd come here and sell a script right away might be a little bit impossible. And even if you DO sell one, you don't get a check right away. It takes forever and they're doled out in payments.

If you do decide to move here I'd seriously suggest having $2000 available to buy a car, insure it and register it. That's not going to get you much, but it should be reliable transportation.

Trust me, I can't express it enough how much you MUST HAVE a vehicle in this city to function properly. Expecting friends to cart you around gets old pretty quick here becasue it's always a hassle to get across town.

Once you visit and see what I'm talking about you'll laugh about the thought of being vehicleless and surviving.

Hopefully it all works out for you!

Sounds good, David. I just personally have a hard time imagining being here and having to rely on others. But if that's cool for you, good job! Best of luck with it all. A defensive driving course sounds hilarious. Here in L.A. you get used to it pretty quickly as an experienced driver but as a neophyte, it might be a bit of a leap. Hopefully it all works out for you!

http://www.oscars.org/nicholl/index.html

Man,

I have to tell you, the level of support, advice and good will on these boards is amazing.

I've been following a lot of really interesting threads lately and it's amazed me how well-mannered and cool this place has grown.

Good for all of you who spend the time to inform and educate others who seek help.

This board is a rarity. So many others are filled with venom and nastiness.

Thanks, Frederick for mainting a level of class here. And to the posters who do the same.

A few questions for you guys:

1. Why have they changed their name? 2. Is it worth spending $40 for this? I hear the guy Jerrol is a nice guy but every time I'm there and check the Scripts Sold link there are never any sales recorded. There are a bunch of options but no price listed and the companies are always small ones no one's ever heard of.

I know it's good to get an option, but in reality these options could be for no money.

Also, it's an additional $40 charge to have your title listed in the book thing that goes out. That's an $80 payday.

Has anyone had any SALES from this thing?

I know a bunch of you speak well of having scripts downloaded and all that, but if it doesn't sell, that's not really doing much for you.

I'll appreciate any thoughts/opinions you all have.

Thanks for all of your responses. It sounds like WSN has huge fans out there. Good for all of you and thanks for taking the time to air your opinions.

The following was posted in Variety: _______________________________________

MGM has acquired Bragi Schut Jr.'s spec script "Season of the Witch" for Mosaic Media Group to produce. Studio paid mid- against high-six figures for the project that revolves around a group of knights in 14th century France who must transport a woman accused of witchcraft to a mountain abbey, where the monks will seek to understand and destroy her powers, believed to be the source of the Black Plague.

Earlier this month, Schut was one of six scribes who won the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences' Don & Gee Nicholl Fellowship in Screenwriting competish with "Season of the Witch." Script is being compared to Ingmar Bergman's "The Seventh Seal."

Last year, Schut's script "The Last Voyage of the Demeter," about the ship that carried Dracula's coffin from Transylvania to England, was set up at Phoenix Pictures. Robert Schwentke is attached to direct.

Mosaic's Chuck Roven will produce "Season of the Witch," while MGM execs Erik Baiers and Toby Jaffee will shepherd the pic at the Lion.

Roven is producing MGM's Terry Gilliam-directed "The Brothers Grimm," starring Matt Damon and Heath Ledger.

Schut is repped by the Brandt Rose Agency and managers Benderspink. _____________________________________

Based on this info, wouldn't that have made him ineligible for entry into Nicholl? (Assuming he was paid for the rights to the film?)

I have a hard time imagining that Benderspink allowed one of their writers to sell something for less than 5k. The following articles were printed in Variety: ____________________________________ Posted: Wed., Oct. 2, 2002, 8:38pm PT Phoenix, Benderspink go for 'Last' Pic an extension of Stoker's 'Dracula' legend By DANA HARRIS Phoenix Pictures has joined with Benderspink to co-produce Bragi Schut's script "The Last Voyage of the Demeter," with Benderspink attached to executive produce.

"Demeter" expands upon the captain's log chapter of Bram Stoker's "Dracula," in which the crew members of the boat transporting Dracula are mysteriously picked off one by one.

Phoenix VP Brad Fischer brought the script into the company and will oversee its development. Date in print: Thurs., Oct. 3, 2002, Los Angeles _________________

This article appears in 2002 long before the deadline. I'll assume that maybe Benderspink allowed him to option it cheaply and this is merely PR to get his name out there but the next story leaves me wondering: -------------------

'Voyage' tix for Schwentke Helmer to guide tale of Dracula's journey By DANA HARRIS Phoenix Pictures has signed Robert Schwentke to direct "The Last Voyage of the Demeter," which he will rewrite with Mitch Brian. Based on the original screenplay by Bragi Schut, "The Last Voyage of the Demeter" expands upon the captain's log chapter of Bram Stoker's "Dracula" in which a ship carried the vampire's coffin to England from Transylvania and arrived at port with no survivors aboard.

Phoenix will produce, with J.C Spink and Chris Bender of Benderspink acting as executive producers.

Phoenix VP of production Brad Fischer brought Schwentke and Brian to the project and will continue to oversee for the company.

Schwentke and Brian have also teamed on the action pic "Labor Day" at Disney and the thriller "Man With the Football" at Columbia Pictures.

Schwentke has written and directed two German-language pics, the thriller "Tattoo" and black comedy "Family Jewels." Date in print: Mon., Aug. 4, 2003, Los Angeles ---------------------

If this story details them hiring a director and re-writers, that means the script was already sold. Nobody's going to hire a director and assign re-writes on a project they don't already own outright.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but wouldn't this automatically disqualify that writer from the competition?

Looks like there was a loophole he benefitted from: ____________________________________ (From the Nicholl FAQ) Q. What happens if a writer were to sell a script during the competition?

A. We interpret our rules to mean that a writer can not have received payment for professional screen or television writing. Thus, it would be possible to reach the Nicholl quarterfinals, to sign a contract for the sale of a script and to remain eligible for a Fellowship so long as the writer had not yet received any payment for the sale. _________________________________

I have a hard time imagining he got no money for a project that's been set up over a year, but maybe so.

Either way, good for him. Looks like he's having a good year.

While it doesn't seem very fair in what we perceive to be the 'true' nature of a writer's competition, there's nothing on their website claiming to be for undiscovered writers only.

We get so swept up in the Project Greenlight, Fade In, Final Draft etc., etc. competitions trumpeting unknown writers winning and maybe that's wrong.

While I still have a hard time believing he received less than $5,000 a whole year after selling a script and having them hire a director to direct and re-write it, if he didn't receive more than $4,999.99, he broke no rules at all.

Their rules are clearly stated and presented for everyone to see ahead of time.

Perhaps it's our mistake for assuming things about a contest we shouldn't be assuming.

Regardless, good for him. It may sting a bit to those outside the "system" (99.9%) but obviously the work was solid enough to earn the win. With a pool of 6,000+ competing, that's a strong piece of work no matter HOW you look at it.

As to the sour grapes thing, you should back off that. These boards are about discussion and exploring different ideas and opinions. Insulting people by dismissing their opinions as sour grapes is kind of snarky.

But your point is heard.

Gil-

You phrased your sour grapes comment in context. My "snarky" comment was a bit harsh and reactionary.

Please accept my apologies.

Sorry to drone on, but after re-reading the trade articles, there's no mention of sale prices. It just says "set up" and "developing". It's easy to place articles in the trades for notice and announcement to drum up writer name recognition (a good management practice) so it's completely possible and probable that no money (or very little) changed hands.

If you get your script attached to 123 Company, it may be for no money at all. But they love it so they attach themselves. Your manager puts a notice in the trades...

A year later, before fully committing to make it happen, they attach a director in order to make the deal final.

Blah, blah, blah...

...That's the game.

So let's kill this thread. I regret having asked the question.

His writing is obviously strong and he's benefitting from it and that's all anyone here wants. So good for him!

Congrats!

This topic comes up now and again and there are always devoted followers of different programs. I'm a Final Draft user and have been for years. I LOVE it. It's simple to use, has a ton of great features and really works well.

In regard to prices,if you don't have much coin, check ebay. You can get an older version (I'm sure) for not much money. Ihave no idea what version they're up to now, but I have version 5 and it still works fantastic for me.

If you want a brand new one, I'd also check ebay.

Good luck!

'It don't gotta be pretty...' 'It don't gotta be neat...' 'It don't gotta look fancy in a dress...'

Just puke it all up and go from there. As so many have already told you, don't worry about it being a published copy right away. Trust me, so much will change in the time ahead you'll back on this experience and laugh later.

Just get it all out and go back later.

You may very well find out that a road you're heading down will no longer work or has varied from what you originally wanted. This will infuriate and frustrate you, but it's all part of the process.

Stick with it!

X

Awesome! Congrats!

There's an article in the latest FADE IN magazine that pulls the lid off the Greenlight experience. It's pretty amazing. They uncover how stuff is blatantly made up and edited out of context to make those involved look a certain way. One prime example is the scene where the two directors from last season sit in that painful audition process with Sharon Lawrence just looking at her and saying nothing. It never happened. They cut in reaction takes of the directors sitting in an interview with another actress who wasn't right for the role, stretched them out and edited them in. It's an amazing read.

has anyone heard anything about whether or not the boards will be back in operation for this year's PGL? Part of the fun of the contest (regardless of whether or not you like the P2P reviewing) the boards made the contest really fun for me in the past. The characters who show up there are colorful. And the wars that break out were almost as entertaining as the show.

I know there were a lot of tech snafus with the boards sometimes and they claimed that they were expensive to run, but at $30 a pop and an average of 7,000 scripts entered, that's 210g's.

I'm no tech guru, but I'd think that buys a year of processor hosting, no?

I know they'll need dough this year to pay readers to read the 1000 "1st cut" scripts (a pretty good compromise that could've gone far worse in my opinion) but that still leaves a healthy chunk of change laying around.

The boards aren't up now and I don't see any link or mention of them so I'm not sure.

Anyone know anything?

(Sorry for the badly edited post above.)

Has anyone heard anything about whether or not the boards will be back in operation for this year's PGL?

Part of the fun of the contest the last two times has been the boards(liking/hating the P2P reviewing is another issue entirely).

They made the contest really fun. The characters who show up there are colorful. And the wars that break out were almost as entertaining as the show. I know there were a lot of tech snafus with the boards sometimes and they claimed that they were expensive to run, but at $30 a pop and an average of 7,000 scripts entered, that's 210g's.

I'm no tech guru, but I'd think that buys a year of processor hosting, no?

I know they'll need dough this year to pay readers to read the 1000 "1st cut" scripts (a pretty good compromise that could've gone far worse in my opinion) but that still leaves a healthy chunk of change laying around.

The boards aren't up now and I don't see any link or mention of them so I'm not sure.

Anyone know anything?

The debates about the PGL experience being good for writers is silly.

Think about it: It's a Reality Tv Show.

We've watched two seasons now where talented entrants (that Dagan director guy from last year stands out most) were passed over in order to pick more entertaining contestants.

Two directors who're a team? With one very colorful and flamboyant? A writer who's an attractive girl who's also very passive aggressive?

It's about the Tv show. Not the script chosen. If that were the case a whole different team of people would have been chosen.

Don't fault the script, "The Battle of Shaker heights". It was the arguably the most "marketable" of the group and after the trainwreck of "Stolen Summer" they were looking for something to redeem themselves.

Also keep in mind it's all about the editing. They're never going to show the boring moments. If there's a way to spin something and make you look like an idiot, of COURSE they're going to do that. We all tune in each week to see those moments. Most of us ended up hating Kyle and Efram pretty quickly. Why? Because of the way they were portrayed. You can argue all you want about, "If you give them the rope they're going to hang you with it!", but in reality, Reality Tv does that quite often.

And we, as viewers, LOVE IT!

Most people go into these contests expecting to be the diamond in the rough, shining out amidst the sea of chaos. But it's Tv. They're not into it for you.

Ergo my passive aggressive slam against Erica Beeny typed above. She may be the coolest chick in the world, but I was effected by what I saw and called her passive aggressive. She may not be at all. But what else can I go by when a 168 hour week is whittled down to 30 minutes?

It's a contest. It's fun to watch. Chances are you're silly if you win it, but who's going to say no to that if chosen?

No one THINKS they're going to look like an ass.

It's all about the casting, baby. Because when you make a movie for $1 million, chances are pretty good that you're going to make it back in rentals alone. Especially when you have a 13 week TV show advertising it and a group of fanatical fans watching it.

It's all about the show, kids. And as a fan of watching it, I agree completely.

Don't enter if you're looking for "fair". You have a better shot at entering Nicholl or many of the other established, respected contests.

This one's for fun.

Ride it out and enjoy the journey.

(I posted this as a response to another thread but wanted to start a new thread to see how others feel.) _________________

The debates about the PGL experience being good for writers is silly. Think about it: It's a Reality Tv Show.

We've watched two seasons now where talented entrants (that Dagan director guy from last year stands out most) were passed over in order to pick more entertaining contestants.

Two directors who're a team? With one very colorful and flamboyant? A writer who's an attractive girl who's also very passive aggressive?

It's about the Tv show. Not the script chosen. If that were the case a whole different team of people would have been chosen.

But how boring would a smooth ride have been to watch?

If someone else had been chosen to direct last year, someone not fiery and very relaxed, it probably would've been very boring.

EXECUTIVE: "The writer's getting a rental car." DIRECTOR: "Cool. Good for them. Let's talk about filmstock."

EXECUTIVE: "We need you to take charge. Don't be afraid to holler!" DIRECTOR: "Cool. I'll talk to the A.D. More importantly, I need a gaffer who understands diffused lighting schemes."

EXECUTIVE: "We need you to change the female teenage lead to a middle-aged male having a hard time getting older." DIRECTOR: "I don't know if that's gonna work." EXECUTIVE: We don't care what, "Works", we have Robin Williams. DIRECTOR: "Cool. We'll make it happen."

Don't fault the script. "The Battle of Shaker heights" was the arguably the most "marketable" of the group and after the trainwreck of "Stolen Summer" they were probably looking for something to redeem themselves.

Also keep in mind it's all about editing. They're never going to show the boring moments. If there's a way to spin something and make you look like an idiot, of COURSE they're going to do that. We all tune in each week to see those moments. Most of us ended up hating Kyle and Efram pretty quickly. Why? Because of the way they were portrayed. You can argue all you want about, "If you give them the rope they're going to hang you with it!", but in reality, Reality Tv does that quite often.

And we, as viewers, LOVE IT!

Ergo my slam against Erica Beeny typed above. She may be the coolest chick in the world, but I was effected by what I saw and called her passive aggressive. She may not be at all. But what else can I go by when a 168 hour week is whittled down to 30 minutes?

Most people go into these contests expecting to be the diamond in the rough, shining out amidst the sea of chaos. But it's Tv. They're not into it for you. They're into it for ratings.

Who'd you rather watch up close in a Reality Tv show; A stuntman or A librarian? 'Nuff said.

It's a contest. It's fun to watch. Chances are you're silly if you win it, but who's going to say no to that if chosen?

No one THINKS they're going to look like an ass.

It's all about the casting, baby. Because when you make a movie for $1 million, chances are pretty good that you're going to make it back in rentals alone. Especially when you have a 13 week TV show advertising it and a group of fanatical fans watching it.

It's all about the show, kids. And as a fan of watching it, I agree completely.

Don't enter if you're looking for "fair". You have a better shot at entering Nicholl or many of the other established, respected contests.

This one's for fun.

Ride it out and enjoy the journey.

I'm sorry if you took it as a diatribe. I didn't mean it that way at all. I was merely pointing out that it's a TV show about Virgins making movies, not a scriptwriting contest.

By now (after two of them) no one can enter and say they had no idea how the contest/show works. We all know. So enter and have a good time with it or don't enter.

That's all I meant.

And before anyone reads into the line, "so enter and have a good time with it, or don't", I wasn't referring to the poster above. It was/is meant as a general 3rd party, generic statement.

Depending on what you're looking for, there are many.

In the "gross" arena you have the AMERICAN PIE apple pie scene.

In THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT MARY you have the nuts in the zipper scene.

In RAINMAN you have; the counting toothpicks scene, playing in Vegas scene and "I'm an excellent driver" scene.

Any of the "I'll be back" moments from the Governor.

The pop music montage duet on the roof top in MOULIN ROUGE.

"Houston...We have a problem." in APOLLO 13.

And many, many more I'm sure I'll scream about later.

"You had me at hello." JERRY MAGUIRE

Mike's leaving of the really painful answering machine message or the "You're so money, baby!" from SWINGERS.

"Does anyone have a breath mint?!" ACE VENTURA

Travolta and Thurman's batdance in PULP FICTION

The karaoke scene and the scene where the table sings "I say a little prayer for you" at dinner from MY BEST FRIEND'S WEDDING

Anything from BABE (that damn pig killed me).

Oh, there are so many!

It seems they really have tried to improve the Peer to Peer review system.

In previous contests you had to answer the very biased: COULD THIS FEATURE BE MADE FOR $1,000,000.00, Would You Pay To See This Film? questions and they're gone now.

The message boards have also been disabled. I loved them and thought they were hysterical so I wrote and asked about them. I got a very quick reply from someone there saying that they've decided to not allow the message boards because postings influenced and effected reviews.

I'm not quite certain that's valid, but it seems like they've really responded to the P2P hatred many entrants voiced concerns about.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully the boards come back after the first round. They really are hysterical.

I think the whole, "Forget the caps" thing is a little crazy. "They're falling out of favor"? According to who? I'm sure it's an either/or situation.

It's all about using them where you need to. It's a personal style choice.

Sometimes in narrative if you think something is important enough to need noticing, who cares whether it's fashionable or not to use it? Just know where to draw the line.

I fully support losing the CUT TO:'s. That DOES slow down a read and can really cost you pages. Plus, it's annoying to read so many times. It's not needed. But again, that's an important style choice. If you use a CUT TO: a couple times to illustrate an important story point, who's to say that's wrong? (When I say, "a couple", that doesn't mean 10.)

It's all about painting the read so it best flatters your story and calls out what needs to be called out.

Reading 10 different scripts from 10 different produced writers will have different styles to them. Small things that make each a little bit different. It doesn't make any one of them the standard end all/be all.

As long as you're following correct format and common sense, it's up to you to paint the picture how you see fit.

Good luck with your script!

Sweet Jesus, Paula, you may have just opened a very ugly door for yourself.

Hopefully you don't get slammed with 3,000 unsolicited requests to read and work stuff for free.

One note I have regarding the pages posted is to forget about directing on page. "She draws the word Cathy out and makes kissing noises" (or however it was phrased). That's an actor moment. It wastes time on the page and can be made much, much shorter with a parenthetical.

GIRL Why, you wanna go see Cathy? (makes kissy face)

Direct as little as you can on page. Set up your intentions and ideas with snappy, pointed narrative that guide the story sharply. Otherwise it just reads like direction and most directors and readers pick up on that quickly while reading a script.

If the story, characters and DIALOGUE are written well enough, there's really not much need for directing on page.

Good luck!

I would suggest against putting other films into your logline. The story itself should be the draw. Imagine it's a TV Guide blurb. Just enough to pique their interest.

When I read your logline I was overwhelmed by the amount of facts and descriptions. It seemed to be too much.

But as you can also see, everyone's got their own ideas. I'd suggst sticking with the TV Guide description. Just enough info to tease them with power words in an active voice.

How is a company based out of Miami, Fla. going to make a big splash soon?

And how are they connected to anyone in the industry in Los Angeles?

Just curious.

Since when is New Line based out of Canada? They're right smack dab in Beverly Hills. New Line isn't an agency, they're a film company.

Successful agencies work in the city the business is in. That way they have access to people in the industry they're selling to. While it may be true that the world is operating on line more and more each day, in reality, relationships and deals are made face to face.

How on earth is a lit agent in Miami going to get the atention of a studio person in Los Angeles?

They may very well be a good group of people but having an impact on selling scripts is more than likely not going to be a strong suit for them. Who cares what they shoot there? It's where the decisions to make the projects happen that really matters.

And that's definitely NOT Miami.

In regard to the claim that Universal Studios and Disney aren't just in Florida for the parks...Of course they are. Part of doing business is having close proximity to the people. Anaheim is the West Coast, Florida is the East Coast. Are you saying Disney built the theme park in Florida 40 years ago thinking ahead about the film industry?

Think about it.

Steven,

Where are you getting your facts from? I'm interested in your source for them. It's absurd to claim that an equal amount of decisions are made anywhere other than Los Angeles. Los Angeles is where the corporate headquarters are for all the studios. Films may be being shot in other countries and places but the decisions to shoot them there, after the decision has been made to purchase them happens in Los Angeles. Sure, you have Miramax and other corporate offices in NY but all the decisions made regarding the spending of money and the spearheading of projects happens in Los Angeles. It's insanity to claim otherwise.

Steve,

I'm not certain it's even worth pursuing this discussion. You seem to be arguing art while my point is business.

Writing should be about the art and the fun and the whatever it means to each writer, but at the end of the day, whether you're writing the greatest piece of cinematic art ever or The Next Britney Spears Movie, it all comes down to whether or not someone is willing to fund it. And 90% of the time that means Hollywood.

All the independent success stories you hear about regarding guys like Kevin Smith are the flukes. That doesn't mean indie films with art and something to say aren't worth fighting for, sure they are. But the general public doesn't often support those films. When they do, it's a miracle and is refreshing.

So don't fault people who want to sell stuff to the people in Hollywood. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any screenwriter anywhere who'd say no to having a big studio buy their script.

I apologize to Jesse. I didn't mean to hijack your ROLLINS AGENCY thread. Please forgive me. Further posts should deal with his/her specific question.

Steve,

You're whimsical! It's okay to state rare examples like a mayor greenlighting a picture. But why provide no details? A mayor of a municipality is funding a film? If that's the case, good for them! But it'd be interesting to learn how much the budget is, who the mayor is, what the municipality is? If it's a small budget that's extraordinary. But how exactly will distribution and shooting be handled? Doesn't the mayor have bigger things to do than greenlight a movie? I'm not certain that's even in the job description, is it?

Where will the film be seen once done? The local arthouse? There's nothing wrong with that either but as noted in an earlier post, not many writers are hoping to shoot a film that'll only be seen on one screen.

I may be wrong but you're either a client of the Rollins Agency or friends with someone there. You're speaking of them like you have lots of insider information.

If that's the case, what have they sold? You say they're reading this thread but no one has responded to the posting someone put up asking this question.

As to my being an intern or working for a studio, neither is true. That seems to be a convenient slam to put on someone who's making the statement that most of the business being done in the film world (features to be released to the general public with distribution) is greenlit out of Los Angeles.

I'm not an agent, don't work for a film studio and have no desire to do so.

My points are logic points involing business.

This thread started as a question about a lit agency in Miami, Fla. If they're a lit agency they're looking to make a mark in the feature world. That world means studios. Agents get commissions. Commissions are a percentage of a sale. The bigger the sale, the bigger the commission. You yourself said they are going to make a big mark soon. That must mean they're involved with a studio. That's how you make a big mark as an agent. By selling a script.

If you'd care to explain your Rollins connection and insider info and if they'd care to respond to the question put to them by the other poster, I'm sure that would most assuredly put me in my place.

Apologies and a big, "You got me!" will quickly be typed.

But another, "You work for the studios and have studios on the brain and are brainwashed by Hollywood," doesn't really lend any creedence to your argument. Prove me wrong with facts, not insults.

Insults are easy, facts mean something.

Thanks!

PS: Rollins Agency - If you are indeed reading these boards as Steven states, perhaps you'll respond on your own?

Just curious if anyone has anything to report about them and their e-query service. Has anyone used it? What were the results?

be careful, Christina-

You might grow hair on your palms.

Good luck to all who entered and are waiting.

I think it's interesting how much the contest changed this year. At first I thought getting rid of the Message Boards was a really bad idea because of how fun they were to read but after getting an email from someone at the contest explaining they felt the boards influenced reviews, it kind of made sense.

The directors contest also being taken away from P2P reviewing was interesting too. But I wonder who did the judging? I can't wait to read whatever magazine piece will come out about it. It's an interesting story.

The next step is where it gets really interesting. The Top 1000 are then read by "industry readers" which we know means interns or whomever they can find willing to read 1000 scripts in a month. That's a heavy work load.

If it is industry readers it's going to most likely be very realistic in a, "First 10 Good - Read On", "First 10 Bad - Move On" type of thing. We can argue that they'll put more time into it than that, but if you were stuck at home with 35 scripts to read and review, you'd probably eventually succumb to the same temptation.

And that's not a complaint. Not at all. Hopefully it distills the crap and gives us a solid pool that deserve to be there.

Of course if a majority of the Top 100 finalists (both writers/directors)are boring and tepid, they'll still end up going with the "Flashier" personalities.

But at least the film will have a better shot at making it.

It's going to be interesting to read how the feedback experience was this time out. I know a lot of poeple really complained about the P2P experience because they felt people tanked them purposefully. But with the rules being changed so that the "quality" of the reviews means something, it sounds like they took a step in the right direction. (Hopefully.)

Again, best of luck to all those of you who wait.

Billy, I don't know if this is still of any use but after doing a Google search the following info came up. It appears as though this person may be a contact that could help you or at least point you in the right direction:

ANNA CLEMENT aclement@mentorn.tv Information I am now Deputy Head of Production at Mentorn, budgeting, planning and overseeing a broad range of programmes from development to delivery. The Production Managers Association Ealing Studios, Ealing Green Ealing, London W5 5EP Tel: 0208 758 8699 (or via Ealing Studios' main switchboard 0208 567 6655 ext 699) Fax: 0208 758 8647 Email: pma@pma.org.uk Website:www.pma.org.uk

THE SECRET LIFE OF JAPAN: SUICIDE Mentorn Barraclough Carey - Channel 4 50 minute documentary shot in Japan about the disturbingly high rate of suicide there. Winner of RTS Craft Award. Prod/Dir: Richard Alwyn. Exec: John Bridcut

Eugene, you posted this question a few weeks back so I'm not sure if you'll still be reading it, but I say no to the pay for services. You have no idea who they are or who's doing the reading. Keep in mind that most of them also offer "Notes" services which charge you additional fees to tell you how to fix your script. That seems a little conflict of interest to me. Not that your writing is Oscar worthy on its own after the first draft, but reading script knowing that it's possible to then charge you more money to "note" it just seems kind of convenient.

I'm sure this answer will generate angry responses from people who work for places that charge fees, but I'd suggest against it. Have someone you know and trust who'll give you HONEST feedback read your script. Just make sure it's someone who knows how to read scripts. Often times it's foreign to very educated people who've never done so before.

If you're reading about places that give "recomend" ratings and offer to pass your script along to producers, do some research first. I have yet to read about a big sale being made that way. A lot of times you see blurbs about people getting reps or options but the details are usually pretty sketchy.

I made the mistake of paying for a coverage service a few years back. I called ahead of time to make sure that my $125 bought a skilled reviewer and was told that all their readers were union readers. When I got my coverage back weeks later the story synopsis was incorrectly written. There was a name on the coverage and when I called to speak to someone in the office about the coverage it turned out the guy who answered the phone was the reader. Not a union reader. An office assistant.

This place was established and had a big on-line presence and I did my homework and asked all the questions but wound up getting an office assistant who didn't read the whole script.

Be careful where you spend money and what you spend it on. There are generally no quick short cuts.

Greg,

You said there are 50 readers who each get about 12 scripts. According to those figures that means only 600 scripts get entered? I thought the entries were in the thousands. If so, that makes the number of scripts read per reader go up to about 100 (or just shy of that), right? Not 12.

Greg,

This is taken from the website:

1986 -- 99 entries. 1987 -- 459 entries. 1988 -- 223 entries. 1989 -- 1,395 entries. 1990 -- 2,888 entries. 1991 -- 3,814 entries. 1992 -- 3,515 entries. 1993 -- 3,854 entries. 1994 -- 3,934 entries. 1995 -- 3,695 entries. 1996 -- 4,181 entries. 1997 -- 4,006 entries. 1998 -- 4,446 entries. 1999 -- 4,150 entires. 2000 -- 4,250 entries. 2001 -- 5,489 entries. 2002 -- 6,044 entries. 2003 -- 6,048 entries.

Using these figures, that means if there are 50 readers they each get 121 scripts to read.

That seems to be a lot of scripts to read thoroughly.

It was years ago, Paula when I was new. I just chaulked it up as a lesson learned.

Jerry, I'm not writing off or dismissing valid "Pay For" critiques. Not at all. I thought it was obvious from my posting that I meant any place offering it as a big business. But perhaps I didn't phrase that correctly.

Also, looking back at my original reply, when I said the reviewer wrote the synopisis incorrectly, I didn't mean the format. I meant the person created elements of the story that didn't appear anywhere in the script and attributed them to the script.

Once again, I won't dismiss the idea of getting feedback on a script, but if you're going to pay cash money for it it should come from a trusted source.

Otherwise you could just hand it to a friend who's opinion you trust, and who's willing to be completely honest, and get the same exact thing for free.

Paid Coverage is, after all, just a paid for opinion, right?

If anyone here has a trusted, well experienced resource they vouch for, that's fantastic. Positive word of mouth is always the best review. Just make sure you know who you're paying, what qualifies them to get paid and what they're willing to provide for that pay.

Pretty easy, I think. The best rule of thumb is always...buyer beware!

Wow...That seems like a lot of scripts to be read. When you do the math that means 20 weeks of reading with 200 scripts read by each reader. Which means they read ten a week. Factoring in two days off to breathe each week, that's two scripts a day, five days a week for 20 weeks.

Is reading a full time job for these people or do they have other gigs as well? If so, that wouldn't seem to leave a lot of time in a day to adequately read and review 2 scripts a day, would it?

The alternative is factoring in weekend reads where they'd read ten over two days. That doesn't seem much more practical.

How do you know scripts get read adequately? I understand you obviously hire and have faith in good people, but that seems like a really big work load to judge fairly.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Greg. Your answers are always greatly appreciated by people here.

Greg!

We had started an exchange in another thread I wanted to put under a new banner so you'd find it more easily. ______________________________________

Author: Greg Beal

The average stack is 12 scripts. Each trip to the Academy the reader hands me a stack and then takes away a stack. Most visit about once a week. Reading takes place from February through early July.

As there were just over 10,000 total reads last year, the average for each reader was just under 200 scripts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Author: H. J.

Wow...That seems like a lot of scripts to be read. When you do the math that means 20 weeks of reading with 200 scripts read by each reader. Which means they read ten a week. Factoring in two days off to breathe each week, that's two scripts a day, five days a week for 20 weeks.

Is reading a full time job for these people or do they have other gigs as well? If so, that wouldn't seem to leave a lot of time in a day to adequately read and review 2 scripts a day, would it?

The alternative is factoring in weekend reads where they'd read ten over two days. That doesn't seem much more practical.

How do you know scripts get read adequately? I understand you obviously hire and have faith in good people, but that seems like a really big work load to sustain and judge fairly.

(Especially if readers have real jobs outside of Reviewing Nichol entries to pay their bills with.)

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Greg! Your answers are always greatly appreciated by people here.

Please be aware, Greg, this is in no way an accusatory post. You run the best competition out there and your committment to writers is really great.

It's just curiosity.

Can anyone offer a link to a site where successful independent films, their budgets and revenue might be found? (I can't seem to find anything doing a google search.)

We're also primarily intereted in 35mm films, not video or digital projects.

Thanks for any help and info you can share.

Thanks, Marcel! Unfortunately that article (though entertaining) is about 12 years-old. We're looking for stats a lot more current.

But thanks so much because the site itself is a cool one!

1. I don't want to hijack this thread so please look for a new posting asking about Barb Doyan.

2. If I understand this posting's intent, it's asking whether any one's had a successful experience with Pay For Review services.

If so, are there any of you out there who've received recommends and if so, did those recommends actually hold any weight?

anyone's (sorry)

In another posting about script coverage several people spoke glowingly of Barb Doyon's coverage service.

Who is she and what makes her coverage so worthy?

Does she work professionally? And has her coverage meant anything to your projects?

Sorry if this has been discussed a hundred times before. It's the first time I've seen her name mentioned here.

Thanks for the suggestion, Sue.

Thanks for all the wonderful links and suggestions.

Yeah, what's the deal with this? Anyone been involved? I haven't been able to find much info on it either.

Thank-you, Billie. That was stated perfectly.

Jen, you sound a little testy regarding this guy and this issue. Why?

If you think typos don't matter I'm curious about that. Would you send out a resume with spelling errors?

The one you mention, "You're" and "Your" is a personal pet peeve of mine. If you read a sentence that says, "Their the ones who keep bothering me. So why don't you mind you're own business!" don't you think that reflects a bit on the writer?

Spell Check programs are really cool for words that confuse us all but if you have a problem with "their" and "your", blaming spell check isn't really fair. Blaming grammar skills is.

This isn't meant as an attack on you at all and probably doesn't belong in this thread, so forgive me for replying here.

I don't know him and don't really care, but MANNEQUIN is a fun movie. The second one was a trainwreck meant to make cash, but the first one is awesome. Rent it, I think you'll be glad you did. It's a fun flick.

Good luck with this. Hopefully you're receiving lots of responses. Though I'd say, after most reality things airing, people are probably pretty hesitant about being made to look like idiots out of context.

My feeling is, "You give 'em enough rope, you're gonna hang yourself..."

But there's always someone looking to be in front of a camera so you probably aren't having much problems.

It sounds like it's going to be entertaining.

Again, best of luck!

I'm surprised no one's responded to this posting. I assumed there'd be a lot of people who'd entered or taken it.

In case it just got lost, I'll bump it up again. I'm also interested in how the program works.

Thanks for posting, if you can!

Just be careful with the HCD. I've found in the past they've had a lot of info that's not current (even when issues are new) nor complete.

It's a lot to ask for, I know, with turn over being what it is. Just make sure you do double checks before you send money on postage.

Any agency that wants you to pay for copying or sending scripts is definitely one to avoid. That's crazy.

I've just found her service on line and have a few questions from anyone who's ever used her.

1. $300 to read and review a script (with the money refunded if she takes you on as a client) seems high. Especially when they offer notes and the ability to resubmit in 30 days for another $150.

Has anyone done this? Whenever I read these, "Resubmit at a lower rate!" things it always seems more than likely it's just another way to generate additional money. $450 is a costly read rate.

2. Her credits are impressive but rather old. Has anyone used this service fruitfully and gained success through it?

Not representation. A sale.

Before fans of hers start flaming, I'm just asking. Not accusing. So calm down before you post a reply.

Hate to disagree with you, Terri, but I think I must.

Living and working in Los Angeles I can tell you from first hand experience that there are very few writers "making it" at 44.

First script sales done in Hollywood generally happen a lot earlier than that.

Writers are found through film schools and agents and other places and very few new writers are ones who hit for the first time at 44.

On TV show runners themselves are generally a bit older because they're running things but the staff writers all look like they're fresh out of school.

Screenplay writers may be a bit older than that but certainly not in their mid-40's (as first time break outs).

Out of curiosity where are you getting that number from?

Orlanda,

She appears to be an agent with a reading service. (Or possibly a manager.)

Either way it seems kind of shady. People looking for new clients should be reading scripts in order to find projects they want to represent.

Charging you $300 to do so, along with a very convenient additional $150 for resubmission after notes, seems like it'd be a great way to drum up an additional $150. I'm not saying that notes aren't needed but charging someone for something twice seems a bit like profit making.

I'm not saying anyone should work for free, but well-established agencies and managers don't charge people to read their work.

I'm not thinking about using her services, I was just curious if anyone had done so.

She may be a FANTASTIC agent! (I have no idea and don't mean to imply she isn't) but her credits being as old as they are and the charging thing made me wonder.