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I am a new writer from New Zealand, with a hot off the press screenplay called CHAOS. It has some unique ideas, fairly big budget, and is set in London. My problem: I have sent out several dozen very creative "flyers" to agencies and production companies but many have been returned unopened. My strategy to "stand out" doesn't appear to have worked. I had one positive email from a production company but felt their release went too far, so didn't proceed. I am hoping to get an experienced screenwriter to read my screenplay and at least let me know whether it is worth taking further. However, I am suspicous of companies offering this service as from what I can see, there is a whole industry taking advantage of writers desparate to market screenplays. I do not want to place my script on an internet site for review due to the unique nature of some of my ideas. The logline for my screenplay is: Keyser Soze with muscle! British Intelligence, the Russian Mafia, and a $20 billion sting! Just pawns in a plan so breathtaking that even Pandora will kneel in awe! The Usual Suspects, but The Sixth Sense will deceive you! The Ghost Who Walks, deadly, but very real! The best chain twist since Kujan dropped his coffee cup! It just gets cleverer!

Can you offer any advice?

By the way, the logline I mentioned is a new revised version. My query was more of a short synopsis, but without giving away too many critical details.

Thank you for your help. I finished the first draft of my script on July 21 and have been polishing it since then, but that really is my problem. It is difficult to find anybody to critique it without pasting it all over the internet, and I read in one forum that if you had a unique idea not to post it anywhere public.I am hoping to find just one or two experienced writers to just let me know if it is worth taking any further, new areas to polish etc., and if my concept is marketable to Hollywood or perhaps the UK market. I think this is a $50 million + movie but I may be wrong.

Mark, When you say join a writers group, do you mean an internet one. Is there one you can recommend? I haven't found one person in NZ to read my script let alone a writers group. There is one agent in NZ who doesn't handle Hollywood, and who is on maternity leave at the moment anyway. Is my only alternative to pay for a Hollywood script doctor?

I was hoping my logline would get someone's interest, rather than tell them what my screenplay was about. It is about British Intelligence tracking the Russian mafia, who are running the world's largest insider trading network, using a secret and very clever(and plausible) weapon designed by a genius for MI5 to fight against terrorism and organised crime. Realising their operation will be discovered, the Russians have orchestrated the biggest sting the world has ever seen. By mimicking terrorist groups they are going to bring London's financial markets crashing down. But someone is pulling everybody's strings, and has an even bigger plan.

I don't know if a movie involving a terrorism theme or a London setting would appeal to Hollywood.

Terri, I spent all night reading posts to this forum and you impressed me. Would you be prepared to read my screenplay, and (2) possibly give me a brieg critique?

Terri, I spent all night reading posts to this forum and you impressed me. Would you be prepared to read my screenplay, and (2) possibly give me a brief critique?

Terri, you help would be greatly appreciated, whenever you can do it. Thank you.

Thank you Terri, I will contact you after the 31st. If anyone else would like to read my screenplay, I can email it in Adobe pdf or Final Draft format. Any feedback from an experienced screenwriter would be appreciated.

Thanks Jerry, you already have it in your email.

WOW! Surely you just write what YOUR CHARACTER would say! If you don't need much exposition, then the shorter the better - but not necessarily always. The trouble is - all the books and "experts" say less is best, but whenever i pick up a script, not just Tarintino or Christopher McQuarie, they seem to make long dialogue pieces work brilliantly. Do what feels right for your character. In this particular case I think I would have written: Johnson's down fellas! Lets do this right! or something similar. But what do I know, I'm still trying to figure out LOL!

or: We've got a man down fellas, let's do this right!

Anyway, I've just watched The Sixth Sense, trying to follow with a copy of the script I got off Scriptorama. It's not what's written in the script (there seemed to be a lot left out), but Bruce Willis's or the director's interpretation of it.The script only really lives with a particular voice on screen, in this case, a fantastic job by Willis and Osment, - on paper everything is subjective.The reader or actor gives the dialogue their own particular visualisation of character, voice and rhythm.The script is like the 3D animation framework just before they do the final layer of CGI.The best the writer can do is suggest the inflection by spacing or "pacing" the dialogue, and making the dialogue as "irrestible" and "visual" as possible. Dialogue that doesn't work is changed, improved, or left out by the actor, director, or editors anyway. IMO (I worked that one out!.

someone start a new thread - please???

In Chaos, my first screenplay, the villian becomes the richest man in the world. In the sequel, he becomes the most powerful.

The FBI have intelligence about a Chinese plot. (I don't want to give too much away!) The FBI kidnap the only people that may be able to stop this happening,(Yes, it does include the person that people think is the richest man in the world, only he's not!)and hide them on a luxury ocean liner (The World). Only it turns out not to be the Chinese, but my villian who lives on the luxury ship.And theres an ICBM thats gonna take out the ship. Could possibly turn it into "Diehardest", but thats as far as I've got so far. Is there anybody who knows a bit about ocean liners and submarines that might be interested in collaborating with me?

I'm not trying to sell my idea - I wrote my first screenplay, but am not sure I have the "technical" ability to write the sequel by myself so was putting out a "feeler" to see if getting someone to collaborate on it is a possibility.

You guys should be trying to help out new writers, not shoot them down in flames - of course we're amateurs!

Miss October? This I gotta see!

Thanks Paul. Much more helpful. I wasn't expecting an expert, just thought there may have been someone a bit more knowledgeable in these areas and put a few details down about the proposed plot in case someone would be interested or enthused about this type of story.

You obviously HAVEN'T been to NEW ZEALAND!!!!!

Oh well! We'll just have to try to impress you as writers and movie directors then!

Thanks Ron, Clancy is definitely a wealth of info. Probably will be easier once I get stuck into writing it. Going for a cruise on "The World" - I wish - maybe after I've sold my first screenplay -LOL.

Jerri, 1) You only read 25 pages of my screenplay 2) Unfortunately this infers that it's not very good, when I am hoping to encourage other experienced writers to read it - I haven't had one person read it yet! 3) All stories are probably variations! 4) My story is about somebody stealing $100 billion - I haven't seen it done before - sounds ridiculous, but please only criticise after you have read the WHOLE screenplay - I didn't think the first 25 pages were that bad! 5) You have been totally off track this whole thread - I wasn't asking for feedback about my work and I wasn't trying to sell an idea!

Terri,

All I'll say is that after the 1st of Sept, I'm HOPING that YOU'LL still read my screenplay for some constructive feedback from an EXPERIENCED screenwriter - and more hopefully still, the WHOLE 117 pages.

Wayne

Terri,

Actually Entrapment was a good choice, as they stole $8 billion in ten seconds, so my $100 billion in 24 hrs doesn't sound quite so ridiculous - and it's not - if people read the whole screenplay.(I think the first 25 pages will grab some people!)

Wayne

I really appreciated Jerry offering to read my screenplay, was a bit dissappointed he didn't get further than 25 pages, took his comments as they were meant to be taken, and then got on with: 1) trying to get people to read my screenplay and giving me some feedback 2) looking forward to my next attempt as "all the books" say keep writing, have more than one screenplay to show someone, and hone your skills (which despite what some people say, is difficult in a country where you can't even get brads and there is only one agent (local market only).

This thread was never about feedback re my first screenplay, or about the few details I submitted in the possibility it might interest or enthuse someone to collaborate.

Thank you Terri,

I really just want to get my script in the best possible shape so I can enter it in some screenplay contests(ones I can submit to online anyway), as writing to agents, studios, production companies was a complete waste of time - most of my envelopes were returned unopened or with a letter saying they hadn't been read. As I said, since July 21st when I "finished" my screenplay, NO-ONE has read it yet!

Sorry Jerry, couldn't find my fire extiguisher!

Really appreciated you offering to read my screenplay and your feedback, and as I said, I took it in the way it was meant. Saying I was dissappointed you didn't get further than 25 pages was in no way a criticism of yourself or your offer (your background - I found your excellent and impressive web site, -is just what I was looking for to critique my "technology" idea that comes in about page 35 or so) and I,m very sorry if it seemed like I was criticising your experience, - this is the last thing I meant to do - I really am a nice guy!!! - I'm looking for as much feedback as I can get. Sorry I didn't follow up e-mail, but I didn't want to "pressure" you - from your site you look very busy.

Regards Wayne

Jerry,

In any of the loglines I have tried to write, I avoided using "One Day, One Hundred Billion", or "How To Steal A Hundred Billion" because I didn't want people to think my story was unrealistic, and my reference to "please don't criticise till after you've read the whole screenplay", only referred to criticism of the "$100 billion" concept - sorry for the misunderstanding!

Maybe if you change your details or log in a new set, you get a new ID number? Don't be too hasty! It would be a shame if Colin was someone genuinely interested in marketing YOUR scripts! Maybe the jury should be out a bit longer!

Thank you Ron and Jerry, will check out Janes as soon as I can get to Auckland library.Don't need anything too technical, just layout and terminology.

Regards Wayne

Just watched it myself on Tuesday night- as Russell Crowe says - only if Australia and New Zealand are wiped out in an extinction level event, would he live anywhere else.

The people aren't bad either - our definition - "sophisticated Australians" - although Terri might not agree! (maybe a soft spot for an Aussie bloke - "Crocodile" Dundee comes to mind!)

Regards Wayne

You have to get your script as good as YOU can make it. I finished my "first draft" on July 21st, and then "polished" it over the next few weeks - it was amazing the number of small errors or dialogue improvements I found each time I reviewed it - but you have to draw the line somewhere and actually try to get it out there, hopefully to get feedback from some experienced writers before you actually give it to "buyers", including contests. However this isn't easy - I have only had one person read my screenplay (25 pages anyway) since I "finished" it (as good as I could get it without specific feedback), so it's going in three contests (that close 1st Sept) in the next couple of days. I doubt anyone would ever let you submit another draft.

If read requests came direct to you, I'm sure you could give them any draft you liked - obiviously your best one!

I read in a book to leave all legal worries about company names etc. to the production co.

However, does this apply to contests?

In my screenplay I originally left all the company names in, to help any reader understand the context. I subsequently changed co. names slightly ie Goldman ..... to Goldmans, Morgan ....... to Morgan Brothers etc.

However, reading a copy of Newsweek this week I found the company I had changed from ....bank to ....group actually exists and is a bigger company than the one I was talking about (my villian works at this company)

Will this get my screenplay disqualified from the contest it is already entered into, and what are the actual guidelines for using company names etc. in screenplays - it's not a topic I've seen covered in any books I've read?

I still feel that you can only take it so far without feedback from others who will look at it with "different eyes" than yourself. In my case I haven't touched it for about two weeks now (I've re-read it several times though) because I just don't know where to start to improve it any further. I have been told the first 25 pages need work and "fleshing out" but ????? (and it's 117 pages already!)

I'm keen to improve it, once I get some feedbackback as to what needs doing.

Two people have agreed to read it now, and hopefully a few more will as well.

I will be thrilled for someone just to read it, and get any feedback, good or bad, that I can work with. - I may not have the time in the future, so I'm doing as much as I can now.

Mutual Film Company sent me a release form which used the words "similar" and "identical" - I was prepared to sign a release form with the word "similar" but not "identical" - so I didn't send my script - was I wrong?

Wayne

Actually, it was the NZ Writers Guild lawyer that advised against sending it, but I definitely agreed. The Writers Script Network also advises against the word "identical". I think it's taking it to far to ask a writer to sign anything saying they can use something "identical"."Similar" is bad enough - oh how you Americans love your lawyers! (Do you know you can't sue for personal injury in NZ!)

Terri, - you've given us some BIG clues!

Luv it!!!

ROFLMFAO

Terri does like "Shooting Stars"!

Terri's obviously no Tom, Dick, or Harry!

Does the answer lie with Hugh, Bob, .. or Larry?

I've never denied it!

It was the 5th August. Todd Winton from Mutual Film Company e-mailed me asking for "Chaos".

?

Was Jennifer Flowers Miss October?

Nuff said Terri!

Do you think I should just send my script to Mutual - unfortunately I have already replied, - very politely - do us poor unrespected writers just have to put up with signing our rights away?

Nuff said Terri!

Do you think I should just send my script to Mutual - unfortunately I have already replied, - very politely - do us poor unrespected writers just have to put up with signing our rights away?

Who is Don Granger?

So should I still send it - no-one has read it yet! (I'm still hopeful!). I didn't mention their release form when I politely declined - maybe I should just send it - have to be in pdf on a CD rom thou - brads aren't available in NZ.

"Exec meeting or Hollywood party" ... you do have faith in me Terri!!!

Doesn't piching come AFTER someone has read your screenplay?

If only I could write loglines.....

Sorry Terri - I was still dreaming about exec office, boardroom, Hollywood party etc. - people looking into my eyes, that sort of thing!

"Pitch" as opposed to "query" - but I get your point! - I snailed a fancy query, laminated (so it wouldn't fit in the bin/trash!) (there goes another secret!) with "Chaos" done slighty like a billboard poster heading for a movie (yeah, I know what the "books" say!) - unfortunately, most were returned unread or unopened - so technically it was more of a pitch. Just didn't work! Still, living in NZ, and unknown, I think you have to stand out somehow!

Oh Terri - what I would give for your wisdom!

I will be assertive in future - PITCH!!! not "Query".

If only I could write a good PITCH....

I have just reviewed the Release form for a contest by a magazine and sponsored by a major agency, and it seems to me the are saying they can use your material and at worst pay the WGA min (which I believe is around $60K). Surely only desperate "wannabies" would sign such a document, I'm sure a proffessional writer never would.

And can anybody tell me the name of a major movie that has been produced after being discovered in a contest?

It seems to me that there is a MAJOR industry just screwing "wannabie" screenwriters, making vastly more money than the sum of all "wannabie" screenplay sales.

It's like buying a lottery ticket , at $50 apiece in contests (for a chance of $5000?), or hundreds of dollars apiece in terms of script analysis.

Any contest winner blockbusters? Or someone who has paid money to improve their script and it has sold big?

The Pepsi Challenge .....

I'm not knocking contests, I think they're a great idea to help aspiring screenwriters and give Hollywood some breathing space from the "chaff".

But having to sign away rights like they can buy your script based on the writers "experience"! Surely - a script has market value based on it's quality and the investment(budget)/profit potential it has!

What about a non - profit contest run by a writers collaborative, with any profits used to market winning screenplays, - no strings attached?

I'm beginning to see the value of sites like Triggerstreet, Helium List etc. , but with an entry fee so professional readers could be hired, and no "strangulating" releases, despite the fact "they won't stand up in court". Who wants to go to court?

I get the impression that although there seems to be little outright theft of scripts, the "wannabie" market is a vast wealth of "ideas" for Hollywood.

How many people on this bulletin board are actually earning a living from screenwriting? If I asked them to post, would it overload the board? !!!...

I agree - obviously the big and well respected ones have merit. But why are writers expected to sign their rights away to some of these other companies.

The Writers Script Network's release is reasonable, and they just ooze integrity!

The more writers are prepared to sign these over the top releases and put up with dubious practices, the worse it's gonna get.

Without the writers, and the fresh ideas they create, where would the industry be. Just make sure you're getting paid for those fresh ideas!

My definition of a "Professional" :

Someone who's good enough to actually get paid for what they do!

Paul,

What are the other two questions?

Wayne

"Do you know whats down the road?"

"No"

"The guy that wrote this book does!"

or

"I'm hoping the guy that wrote this book wants me to finish reading it!"

"Do you know whats down that road?"

"No"

"The end of the road!"

Continues reading.

"Do you know whats down that road?"

"No"

Marine rips book in half, throws half to other Marine..... carries on reading.

I like Jerry's one word answer, and I can't think of a better one word answer yet, but I don't know if "exactly" hits the spot for me - just seems slightly to cliched - but I think short and sweet, with lots unsaid, would be best.

I think the Marine ripping the book in half would reflect his "gung ho" character, and the reaction of the receiving Marine could enhance the poignancy of the moment - by silently picking up the book and reading (lots of unsaid expression) or something macho, but reflecting his insecurity- that could be another exercise - I luv these exercises!

Refining my first attempt -

"Do you know whats down that road?"

"No"

"I'm hoping the guy that does wants me to finish this book!"

I don't think you'll have much luck I'm afraid Bill.

I don't think you can cut and paste pdf.

Looks like post it unformated, or a retype.

You could email it as a pdf. attachment to anyone interested - I would be.

Regards Wayne

Thank you Paul.

Bill,

If you can't get thru to Jerry, you can send it to me to cut and paste - I have the full version of Acrobat 6 - but I still think it probably won't format on the board properly.

regards Wayne

I have really enjoyed these "dialogue challenges."

I was wondering if anybody would be interested in writing a "collaborative screenplay".

I have a spare domain available (screenwriter.co.nz) which I am wondering what to do with.

I thought if some people were interested we could write a screenplay where participants wrote one page and emailed it in pdf. to the author of the previous page to judge (or it could be emailed to all previous authors to judge just as easily) The previous author or authors would decide the best effort and post it to the website (if multiple judges, they could post their preference on this board and votes could be counted) If we only had a small fixed number of participants we wouldn't even need the website, just email the whole file to all participants each time.

We'd probably have to vote on genre and plot, but this could probably be done the same way.

I haven't really thought it thru fully, but maybe it could be fun and a good learning experience?

We'd have to agree to split the proceeds from any future sale (we can hope!!) amongst all those who contributed, just in case a miracle transpired.

Have any other attempts at this sort of thing been sucessful?

Someone from another "Major" has requested my script "Chaos", but to-date the only feedback I've had is from someone who read about 25 pages and said it needed "fleshing out"!

Anybody prepared to read 10-20 pages (and more if they're interested enough), and give me any constructive comments/feedback would be most welcome

regards Wayne

Thanks for your perserverance Bill.

Wayne

Dr. Arioli takes the pad and pencil from the newsman in one swift movement. He hands them to the drowsy marine with no jaw, and indicates for him to write.

Dr. Arioli leaves Beech standing open jawed and moves towards the back of the tent.

He reaches into a box open on the floor, and violently turns back towards Beech, his arm outstretched and an snarl gourging his features.

In his hand, a pistol, pointed at Beech's head.

Dr. Arioli - Do you have any last words?

Beech - Wha .. wha ..what?

Do you have any last words?

Wha.. wha...n..n..n...no!...No!!!

Thats all most of the men in this tent have left!

You can't write it son,..you have to feel it....everyday, every hour, every minute...fear,... pain, ...dying if they're lucky...., screaming for their momma, ...crying for their children,...bleeding for their country, ....praying for their lousy souls....

Arioli throws his head in the direction of the Marine with no jaw.

"Whats he's written?"

Beech can hardly move, his voice and limbs shaking with fear.

"He...he...he wants you to shoot him..."

Arioli hands the gun to the Marine with no jaw.

Bang - the Marine slumps to the ground, blood pumping from his head.

Arioli reaches down and picks up the bloody pencil and notepad. He hands them to trembling Beech.

"There are at least eight men in this tent dying,...most of them are concious,....make sure you interview them first.

Arioli moves on to another table and begins to tend another patient.

Was Full Metal Jacket reality, ... Apocalypse Now? ... , Saving Private Ryan, The Deerhunter, ..Midnight Express?

or dramatised reality?

Pearl Harbor,Gladiator, A Simple Plan,Monsters Ball,Seven, The Shawshank Redemption,Heat, The Right Stuff, one Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest,Mash,......reality?

Colonel Kelly showed us that in war, .. reality is very relative to the number of demons taking refuge in your soul...

Sorry, his name is Calley, and he was a Lieutenant!

Ok ...leave out the monologue.

Perhaps..

Dr. Arioli picks up the bloody notepad and pencil and hands them to the trembling Beech.

"Every man in this tent is bleeding his soul, ....melted in hell, ...whats left is oozing under your feet."

Beech looks down at the blood pooling around his shoes.

"You can't see or hear their souls Mr Beech. Their souls will touch you, and then you too will bleed!"

Beech looks at the doctor, his frightened eyes unsure.

His eyes move slowly around the tent, taking in the human desolation.

His trembling is beginning to subside, a grim resolve seeming to calm his disembowelled nerves.

Dr Arioli moves on to the next table and begins to tend the patient.

He looks back towards Beech.

"Make your readers touch their souls!"

or

"Make your readers bleed!"

All of them do much the same thing - I think Terri's is pretty much spot on - but Ellum - "we are now..." , formatting rules , formatting rules , formatting rules, - the "Format Police" are gonna get you!....

Yeah, I'm sure Terri's gonna take my formatting apart when she sees it ... I have a "pysch.." problem with elipses! I tend to format everything I write with elipses ....addicted I'm afraid!

Some (a lot!) elipse conventions would be appreciated, - does anybody know a web page or book (email me the page?) where I can find some rules to at least get them right, even if I can't banish them from my fingers.

Thank you Jerry, - it's been the hardest thing to eradicate from my writing, and they're put in instinctively as I type, not using any conventions at all, so I really need to analyse what I'm doing and what I actually should be doing.

Regards Wayne

Just a thought-- I did find putting elipses in my script in a certain fashion - I think it was a space either just after one word, and then the elipse, or a space after the elipse, made it read properly thru the Final Draft text to speech function, which I found very useful.

Whenever it didn't sound right, there was usually an error. If future developments allow you to assign different voices to diff characters, it will be fantastic.

I have been humbled by the recent feedback I have had about my screenplay from a member of the BB - far more detailed and helpful than I could ever have expected, - and absolutely invaluable! I am very grateful.

I am unable to provide anywhere near the assistance as some of the more experienced members of the BB, but would like to help out where and whenever I can.

I am very willing to read anyones screenplay if they want some feedback, maybe I can help with an idea or two.

Over the last several weeks I have been collecting as many screenwriting articles as I can from the web - some of them are very interesting, and are generally fairly up to date in terms of current "trends" etc.

If anyone hasn't got the time to trawl the web looking for some info or just out of interest please contact me and I will send them any articles I can find. Also, if anyone finds anything of interest, please post www....on the BB.

I have several hundred now and have converted most to pdf. files and shorty will have them indexed into subject folders, and will be able to post a CD with them all on to anyone interested, or perhaps email a whole subject file in a compressed file by e-mail.

I'm sure this would be quite legal, but if not, would someone please let me know.

Wayne

Rohypnol tends to do that!!!

And don't you just feel like cheeseburgers after dragging them up all those stairs!!!!

Saving Private Ryan, Trainspotting --old hat!!!

"Fear Factor" -- now thats a little more challenging to watch while standing on yer head munching raw liver and swigging a Bud!!!

And you could always try Peter Jacksons "Bad Taste" if your evenings get too boring.

I've got version 6 plus the upgrade to 6.06 I think it is but I wrote my script without the upgrade applied.

Different voices will be great. I found the speech engine found a lot of errors for me (it usually faultered or didn't sound right)even thou it's very "robotic".

(Lucky Paul won't probably need it with his "reading" resources, but it's great when you havent got anyone to read it back to you.)

Think people using their "old favorite" software should definitely try out FD, particularly things like SW which I found hadn't even updated their web site in a few years.

Thank you Jerry Wayne

You're doing great Johnny!

I did manage to enter my script in Zoetrope, which was fairly hot off the "wannabie express" and I had spent a couple of weeks pawing over it till I got "newbie blindness".

But, fortunately, Queen Terri has taken away my hoverboard, and I'm now walking down the rubber road, tapping with my white stick, and soaking up her pearls of wisdom.

Another victim (it's a big bus!) of enthusiasm.

PS - Yours is only a flesh wound!

Bill

I had no idea where this piece had come from, only that it seemed a war-time scene with an overworked, wrung out doctor, a tent with seventy four bullet holes, bedlam, wounded men, and a marine in serious trouble with a missing jaw - and this is the only context I had to work with.

Are not movies like:

Casualties of War

Full Metal Jacket

Platoon

Saving Private Ryan

The Deerhunter

Black Hawk Down

Mash

melodramas?

In the TV series of Mash, Klinger wears a dress and the CO talks to his horse!

Movies are based on sensational events, whether fact or fiction, and taken to another, dramatised, level.

Whats a mainstream war story? A soap opera?

The experts seem to advise to try to make every scene an Oscar winner, and this one-off scene is all we had to work with. It was a "dialogue challenge", and any constructive feedback, good or bad, was expected.

Regards Wayne

PS - MORE PLEASE - just maybe we could start each one on a new thread?

Bill,

I really appreciate the feedback, but maybe you could make it more specific - what works, what doesn't - whats overstated, where it could be improved, or an alternative direction to consider.

Regards

Wayne

Some definitions I found for melodrama:

A series of real events invested with a dramatic unity and interest. ``The drama of war.'' --Thackeray.

The world in which the classic hero operated was a world of heightened emotional intensity--a harsh world in which the norm included unending tests of both physical and moral strength, and the constant threat of death.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary) melodrama noun [C][U] a story, play, or film in which the characters show stronger emotions than real people usually do.

- just about any dramatic movie ever made!

Thank you Ellum,

The point I was hoping to make, was that given just a few (extraordinary!) details to work with, and no overall plot context, it was hard not to make the scene melodramatic, - I certainly wasn't trying to make it just another filler scene from a "mainstream war movie" - whatever that is, - I was looking to invoke discussion about dialogue - I don't mind being told I,ve "overstated" it, - I want to learn how to do it it other ways.It's just a shame a few others didn't participate in this scene.

Regards

Wayne

I've just read this thread, and I don't think anyone mentions that M. Night got to his fifth draft before he realized Malcolm was dead - so he wrote the whole screenplay, probably pretty average stuff, then the bombshell to make it great fell into his lap - he goes back, tweaks all the scenes as far as he thinks he can without giving it away! - the brilliant thing about "Sixth Sense" is mainly the Directing (IMHO), and secondly,the acting of Osment and Willis, who, I believe do a fantastic job with the script.

The Directing, because everyone kicks themselves at the end of the movie, -it's so damn obvious - we had Malcolm dying on the bed right at the start - we had ample clues throughout, yet the reality just passes throu us like a "ghost" - thats the clever bit, - hitting us in the face, pretty hard, and we don't even blink. I don't know anyone who got it before the end - and everyone is amazed they didn't get,- the clues outweigh the deception - no-one really notices the deception "errors" until they take it apart with a fine tooth comb - and you can do that with virtually any movie - I've seen C. McQuarries "The Usual Suspects" taken apart by critics, some time after the event - it doesn't have to stand up to detailed scrutiny after the event - the "event" is experiencing the movie as it it meant to be experienced - without the fine tooth comb!He got the Oscar for the "experience" he gave us -where any "errors" were only incidental. Because of the way M. Night "discovered" his ending, and the crucial "brilliance" of his plot, and the nature of the theme, there are bound to be more errors, inconsistencies, and "deception".

Still rates as one of my best all-time movies, and one of the cleverest Directors.

And there are always going to be liberties in movies about the supernatural.

Aren't most movies - "over-the-top"?

A lot of Mel Gibson's movies come to mind - Lethal Weapon, Conspiracy Theory, Mad Max etc.

others?

Courage Under Fire

Casualties of War

Diehard

Rocky

The Deep Blue Sea

?

In "A Simple Plan" - Bill Paxton shoots his brother in cold blood, not even in anger - is this "melodrama"?

I know this is basic, but I'm still confused.

How do you write a slug line for a scene at night, but inside a building, say with no windows, and the lights are on. Or during the day, without a clock or dialogue ref.,and a continuation of context to let you know whether it is night or day.

I think up till now I have been giving a EXT. location slug with DAY/NIGHT then an INT. omitting the DAY/NIGHT, but it still confuses me.

And if you are inside, say a warehouse, with the lights off,in the daytime, do you say NIGHT?

I haven't seen DAY/LIGHTS OFF, but that seems logical.

Wayne

Had we been given the "Simple Plan" scene, and I had Bill Paxton's character kill his brother, I would have been acused of being just as "melodramatic", or the scene where Riggs puts the gun to his head, or jumps off the building handcuffed to the suspect in Lethal Weapon ( I hated this movie!)

The first dialogue challenge, I thought a couple my attempts were understated, particularly ripping the book in half. And in the second, after reading Lt. Calley's account of My Lai, admittedly some years ago, you realise some pretty powerful and emotional things happen in wartime, even in reality.It's fun to play around - it was only one take on the scene - and I've learned a lot about melodrama (I don't particularly like it myself!) - thank you Bill,Jerry, and Paul.

Regards

Wayne

InkTip.com have a generic release form listed under "Resources".

And there are some examples on Done Deal which I think is www.scriptsales.com

PS - it they havent asked for one - do you really need to sign one? Maybe you should just send your script - there are plenty of people on this BB who rarely, if ever, get asked to sign releases.i think the release protects the Agent rather than you.

From my limited experience, you can't use a "major" produced movie script as a guide line to screenplay "format" - virtually every one I have seen is different and has major inconsistencies to the "standard" screenplay "format".(bearing in mind too that many were written some years ago)

Some of the articles I have found on the internet have been the best sources of up-to-date practices on formatting, and any queries I have had (ie. "Fade In" is a transition- but Final Draft puts transitions on the right - after looking at several spec screenplays I deduced most people put "Fade In" on the left) I have used actual screenplays to cross check. I have found the best way is to check spec scripts on Triggerstreet, Helium List etc. and check the writers credentials (most of the current professionally written scripts are in the right format) - or contest winning scripts - or simply ask experienced writers on the BB.

Produced scripts are best for examples of good/brilliant writing, dialogue, plot structure and development, and "visual" inspiration.

If you are going to post your script anywhere, post it on InkTip - as I've said before, InkTip just "oozes" integrity. It got recommended to me even here in NZ. I have had my script there for a few weeks, and although nothing spectaclular, it does get noticed.(To really get noticed you have to be as good as Terri Dickey - she obviously writes great loglines -her advice is really worth listening to!) Make sure you read InkTip's instructions fully to get a few tips on getting your script noticed. It's just a shame not everybody follows the rules on InkTip causing problems with some prod companies.

Wayne

WOW!!! --- I can see why you Yanks need so many shrinks!!!

The great thing about the BB is - if you don't like a thread - you can start another one!

There is a social aspect to this BB as well as a constructive one - the characters portrayed are great - BB soap opera!!!

This thread has become a little inane -but Bill - you were the one complaining the other week about melodrama - and who's over the top now!

I am hoping that Terri's, and a few others, wonderful talents will be utilised more constructively on some other new and interesting threads soon, but come on Bill - a few light-hearted threads are no way to judge anybody's contribution (and who's judging anyway!)

So - all you anal warriors - "Get a Life"!!!!

Quick Terri, --- What number was my post?

Oh, and Teresa, you definitely need a bunny - if you can't get the cuddle type, at least get the fun size one that Kim Catrall swears by - big ears and a big smile - and perhaps you could get one for Bill as well - it's great for constipation! (so I've heard)

It will be soooooooo sad if this thread makes it to 1000!!!!

Terri, you'd better be a bit careful - some of your postings might end up in your biography - LOL!!!!

Too Late!!!! Ha, ha, ha.... I've been told I have a really "evil" laugh!!!!

BTW Terri, in NZ "LOL" means "lots of love" - boy, are your e-mails pissing off my wife - I luv it!!!!

Did you know you can get special tape to tape your fingers up to keep you from abusing your keyboard - yeah, - my mother used to get it to stop me....., --- hold on - someone's at the door -- oh my god!!!

Bill - I was only joking - I swear!!!!!

Oh my god ... oh my god......

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm muummmmmmmmm mmmm mmm mmm mm mm mmm mmmm m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m

Boy you guys certainly know how to make things difficult!!!

Shakila -

If you have the ORIGINAL file you downloaded from the site you purchased FD from, and your "licence" to use it,you can certainly transfer this (usually zipped ) file across to another computer, unzip and install FD, using any of the methods above. You should have some method for backing up your files anyway - imagine writing a screenplay and then losing it because your laptop goes down - BACKUP YOUR FILES!!!!!

If you need to backup a lot of files, get yourself an external hard drive - only a few dozen megabytes and a USB "keychain" type solid state device would probably be best. If you have a digital camera, then get a multi-card reader, and you can store and transfer data using the same storage cards as your camera. In fact you could transfer the FD file to your camera, and then onto the other laptop.

If you have lost the file, contact where you purchased it from - most will allow you to download another copy free of charge ( generally you own a "licence" to use the software and are entitled to a new CD or download - the same thing if you had purchased a CD from FD - if you lost or damaged the CD you are entitled to another.For example, you can install Windows XP on your computer from any Windows XP disk, as long as you use your own serial number (licence) to install it.

Failing that, contact FD, - you may be able to download a demo and activate that if you had the latest version,or upgrade to the latest version at reduced cost. Whatever, as Paul as said, FD are very accomadating, and I'm sure they will help you.

Wayne

If you have MSN Messenger on both machines you could possibly send the file between the machines - this method is similar to email but works better and you can send bigger files although it may take some time - overnight may be best.

BTW - my copy of FD is 43 mb

Another way would be to use a network hub as most laptops have network cards installed. I wouldn't advise any direct connection of the computers as with Win 98 and Win XP it's fiddly and easier to use other methods. If you networked your computers you could use the old computer to back up all your files and still get some use out of it.

Regards

Wayne

Actually, you can network two computers directly using a special cable instead of a network hub or switch (a switch is usually faster and a better buy than a hub) - the cable isn't too expensive and it's not too hard to set up, particularly if you're running Windows XP.

Some good advice on this thread.

I have watched some absolute rubbish lately as there hasn't been many good movies released in my local video shop recently. Some of the titles - "Warnings", "The Bunker", "Avenging Angelo", "Derailed", "Ballistic", and several others. Even a good idea, like "The Recruit", a total waste of time. "About Schmit", and "The Hours" - not much better, but at least great performances from Nicolson and Kidman. I'm sure there must be better material, producers and directors about. These movies can't possibly be a reflection on what doesn't get made -I hope!

Unless you believe you're writing better material than this I would give up.

Where have you been! - Hollywood is virtually a closed shop - they have their own self important ideas - you have to be very lucky to break in - lottery style lucky!!! - I would suspect the reason that most of these rubbish movies actually got made is because they were the pet projects of the producer, director, or stars, - or their "friends", or at least someone with an "inside track" - not because they were fantastic scripts. Is Spielberg ever going to run out of material? - does he go looking for it? And if he does - where will he look? - the best the bottom feeders can hope for is to occassionally get stuck in the whales teeth!!! Your friend has only latched on to a minnow and it's a very big ocean, and he will have to be very lucky to be even noticed by a whale, let alone stick in one's teeth.

I asked on this BB some time ago for someone to take the "Pepsi Challenge" and name some contest winning blockbusters etc. There weren't any takers. There aren't many. There are probably thousands of highly talented and hard working, but totally overlooked directors, actors, and writers in this business. It's the business! Only a few will suceed, - a lucky break and their persistence and hard work may get recognised. Thats what all the "wannabes" are hoping for - all they can do is keep giving it their best shot and making their own luck as far as they can.

Jerry is right - you need to get your scripts read by someone who is both very knowledgeable and objective. Be careful - know that the person you are listening to is both of the above. Use recommendations - Paul Mroczka and others have recommended one particular lady. Or get down on your knees and beg someone like Terri Dickey to give you some pointers - she can make the blind see!!!. ( There may be a long queue!!) Her feedback is invaluable.

You have to have a passion, - you have to be prepared to hone whatever talent you have, - you have to have a very thick skin, - and you have to be persistent. Ride a hoverboard in your dreams, but just remember you're still riding the bus.

Whatever - enjoy your writing, believe in yourself, and don't give up trying to find Nemo!!! (Be a minnow that wants to be a shark and learn how to make splashes the whales will notice so maybe, just maybe, you can stick in their teeth as they swallow you.)

Regards Wayne

Richard - just one comment - Roger Avery and Quentin Tarintino used to peddle videos in a video shop - it took Quentin several years for his genius to be recognised - and even then he had to use a sledgehammer - doing it himself - his original projects weren't given any attention until after his success - Quentin is a great example of how to make it - a self believing genius with the perserverance to keep on grinding away at his craft and the small cracks in the granite of Burbank until his blood dripped from Hollywood ceilings.

Incredible talent, incredible perserverance and self belief, and a little bit of well deserved "luck". No one "understood" this genius for a long time and I imagine many of his video customers believed he would only ever cruise the boulevard of broken dreams.

But even Bill Gates isn't where he is on talent alone - lady luck has a significant presence on the shoulder of many who make it - you still have to be the right person, with the right product, in the right place, at the right time, ready to ride the right wave. Prepare for it!!!!- but that wave may never come!

Regards Wayne

Re: Tarantino

I wasn't impressed by Res Dogs, but enough of the right people were - the idea, some of the visualisations, and much of the dialogue obviously have some merit - the fact is - the script impressed Hollywood enough to give Tarantino the break he needed.

Pulp Fiction puts Tarantino right up there - it is mentioned in virtually every screenwriting book that analyses actual scripts, and I haven't read one that that doesn't say glowing things about it.

Pulp Fiction took my breath away, and seemed to do the same for most knowledgeable critics. I have seen Pulp Fiction more times than any other film,(I've enjoyed it every time!) and the dialogue from the movie has stuck in my head since the first viewing. Awesome talent - but without a few lucky breaks even Tarantino may still be kicking video shelves.But with talent like that - Tarantino had a lot more dice to play than most Hollywood outsiders.

I thought From Dusk Till Dawn was utter rubbish, and Jackie Brown wasn't earth shattering. I hope Tarantino will get his act together and give us another masterpiece one day, but the fact is - he made it, got noticed, got his films made, and has received world wide aclaim.He is also one of the most sought after and sucessful re-writers in Hollywood so it is hard to deny his talent.

Even if we never get anything to rival Pulp Fiction, that movie alone will stand him as a giant in movie history, - both for the writing and directing. Pulp Fiction won BAFTA, Golden Globe, and Academy awards for screenplay, and the Palme d'Or at Canne - thats pretty impressive by any standards. Even his choice of music is inspired. I hope there are a few more like him out here on the wannabie freeway.

As your talent grows, so do your dice!!!

Regards

Wayne

I hope that doesn't apply to the scripts you write Jerry, or boy are you gonna get sore knuckles!!!

Regards

Wayne

Jerry, I agree with your sentiment - but screenplays have to impress the "experts" at the front end - your screenplay gets critiqued before it can ever be made into a movie - after the event it doesn't stand alone - the overall product is critiqued - usually in terms of the contributions of directors and actors - and the point where the script made the grade, or the scriptwriter exerted any influence, or the critic has anything but a commercial influence, is long gone. Scripts have to get past "knowledgeable experts" - that is the point where a movie makes or breaks it - the investment is made at that point - by "knowledgeable experts"- writers are rejected by Hollywood - movies are only rejected by the public, with maybe a little help from critics.

There must be a lot of "McDonalds" scripts out there - a script from an outsider will still have to be better than the rest to get produced.

Books are cheaper to publish than movies, and I would hazard a quess that Stephen King is judged by his publishers as the best "McDonalds of words" out there, and a genius at that.

Regards

Wayne

Jerry, - surely the same criteria apply, if not more so - you have to convince Hollywood of the commercial viability of your screenplay - in spades! - but to do that you have to stand out artistically as the best and most appealing in your genre. Good plot, good dialogue, good execution - pretty universal and static once applied - a good screenplay, good direction, good acting performance - will be viewed much the same by Hollywood as your average knowledgeable critic, except Hollywood will have a more commercial bias, and a more vested, critical interest, and that director or actor may be replaced before the movie sees the light of day. Ultimately both Hollywood and critics answer to the commercial public, and it is difficult to see how one could attempt to impress one without the other. A script with no artistic merit - dialogue,plot, or execution - won't impress Hollywood no matter how commercial the concept, and a good script will impress a film critic even if the overall movie doesn't.

Regards

Wayne.

Terri

Harvey Keitel is one of the Hollywood establishment - to get in you have to be noticed by someone in the Hollywood establishment - from an agent to a director, producer, or actor with some clout, and in Quentins case - a big star with a fair amount of clout!

One way or another talent has to get on the back of one of these players, and make it through the gates and across the mine fields, hanging on for dear life like a rodeo rider, hopefully graduating little league and moving up to ride the bigger beasts. Quentins talent and luck was such that he got to skip little league and swiftly grew horns of his own so he too could snort with the big beasts. Most only get to ride precariously on the back of the beasts, - few get to become one - Quentin has done it - but he will still have to snort and breath fire occasionally to be a gladiator in the colosseum - rather than a statue on its parapets.

Ride the beasts that come your way, and weave your gloves with every fibre of your talent. Be prepared for your face to frequently graze the dirt, and make sure your legs are strong enough to lift your body as high as your spirit.

Regards

Wayne

You read my english wrong Terri - you yanks!!! You have to be noticed by an agent, or a director, producer,actor - someone in the Hollywood establishment - the bigger the player, and the bigger the investment your talent can wring from them, the better. Quentin probably did get very lucky with Harvey - as I said earlier even Bill Gates owes a lot to the hand of god!, - but Quentin had the talent to join the beasts, and not just ride them.

Regards

Wayne.

A heartfelt thanks from me too Terri for all the fantastic help you are giving me (far more and far better than I ever expected), and the excellent contribution you make to the BB.

I can't believe you manage to do it all - I can only imagine how prolific your email must be - maybe you should post a few query letter pointers on the BB before your computer is totally swamped!

If only some more of us were as knowledgeable and able to help others as much as you do - this BB can only get better and better with people like you on it.

Thanks again

Wayne

Ellum

This thread is about some poor soul who couldn't hack going down in flames in the first round of a screenwriting contest - life in general really - a few of us have been trying to put matchsticks in his eyes, and, going by some of his more recent posts, he seems to be beginning to see the light - although its a very long dark tunnel.

Regards

Wayne

COOL !!!

The Bad Metaphor by Finn

I was reading a book, It was untitled, I think.

It was by a friend of mine. It was quite good, Until I stumbled upon the Bad Metaphor: "...and then it hit me, like a soap bubble, floating on a wind of razorblades and string."

It sort of ruined the whole story, Because it was So true.

So true.



Metaphors - Ideas That Tickle Your Mind

Wayne

Terri

By the depth of your knowledge and wisdom, and other clues you let slip, I suspect you're over 400 yrs old and your father used to live in Bran castle.

Are you aware of this?

P.S. Do you write Baz Lurman's lyrics?

I've always wondered where he got his wisdom and inspiration!

Anyway, now I just can't get this image of you staring in Caddyshack and Groundhog day out of my head - " I'm all right..." - ROTFLMFAO - I need an aspirin!

Wayne

He emailed me last night calling himself Napkin Management and wanting a copy of my script. I'm wary too.

Wayne

Thank you - couldn't find their website with my search engine.

Wayne

Is there a shrink on board?

Is there a shrink on board?

You're a shrink?

But you're busy with Bill?

How long will you be?

That long huh!

Oh well - its only a precaution - the odds are incredibly slim that we'll need your services, but just in case there is a near extinction level event and one of the BB Queens doesn't sell a script before this thread reaches 1000...

I know - ridiculous isn't it - as if!!

Yeah, you're right - I have been on the alcohol - my apoligies, - I'm just gonna go back to my seat in the back and... hey!...is that lightning out there?

Cool!!!

By the way - whats your name?

Nice to meet you Dr. Lector.

Well I'll be getting back to my seat now, Trinity will be getting lonely.

Actually I think I'm on the wrong plane.

Did you say this was Matrix Airways?

My ticket says Virgin!

That f#**%#* travel agent!

Whats his name?

Agent Smith!

Agent f#**%#* Smith!!!

You thought he was a literary agent?

You dumb f#*%!!!!!

We're all on the wrong plane????

This planes going to Seattle???

Oh my God.. Oh my God....

You think I need a shrink?

Hmmmm!

I am getting a lot of headaches... and I keep dreaming I've got this plug in the back of my neck...

God, did I take the red pill or the blue one?....

That f*#8%#* rabbit!!!!!

PS.Greg - was that a thousand posts or a thousand years? Do you come from Bran Castle too?

Someone is looking to buy your snake oil and wishing on the same bright star as you - they are visible throughout the universe - who knows - wormholes are coming...

"If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it!"

Wayne

I knew you'd eventually work out the Cyphre, Angel!

Have you got a Favourite?

Toots Sweet!!!

I think they want a summary so they can track your script easier - I don't think they (are sposed to) judge your synopsis, but make it at least as good as your script. Tell them your story, and make it stand out - about one page, - say goodbye to fifty bucks, - and start carrying a rabbits foot around in your pocket.

I think there are some tips about writing a synopsis on InkTip.com and if I find anything in my files I'll email it.

Good Luck Wayne

I think they want a summary so they can track your script easier - I don't think they (are sposed to) judge your synopsis, but make it at least as good as your script. Tell them your story, and make it stand out - about one page, - say goodbye to fifty bucks, - and start carrying a rabbits foot around in your pocket.

I think there are some tips about writing a synopsis on InkTip.com and if I find anything in my files I'll email it.

Good Luck Wayne

My apologies Terri,

every time you do this I just put it down to inebriation, but I only hit the ANM once!!!

My apologies Terri,

every time you do this I just put it down to inebriation, but I only hit the ANM once!!!

Just like your logline, your synopsis should sell your script - interest somebody enough to read it.

I would write your logline as if you were a reviewer, very impressed with the movie, giving an overview of the story, maybe alluding to a clever ending, but not wishing to spoil it for anyone.

Remember the whole idea is to convince a potential reader to read your script, not judge it by the synopsis.

I think it is acceptable to include a few lines of dialogue if they will grab attention.

Regards

Wayne

soory - logline should read - synopsis.

I don't know - you wait for ages for a bus - then three come along together!

Just make sure you get on one!

I disagree - would anyone have enjoyed The Usual Suspects or The Sixth Sense as much if they knew the ending?

You want the script to be a good read, even more so in the context of a contest, and you don't want to give anyone an excuse not to read the whole script or pass early - do publishers write a full synopsis on their book covers? - or movie trailers show you the ending? - no, they only tease your tastebuds, they don't satisfy them - a logline should trailer the concept -a synopsis should trailer the whole story - with as much impact as possible!

Regards

Wayne

Nobody's going to buy the synopsis - they buy the script, and if a script is available they will read it before they buy it - they may buy a pitch - in which case I would tell the ending -but a pitch is selling a concept - not a script - and they are buying a concept - not a script at that point.

Thats my opinion anyway!

Regards

Wayne

With a synopsis, the thing you want them to buy, is the READ!

The same with a book cover and movie trailer.

Wayne

I agree with Eric, Terri - keep up the mystique - but don't bite us too hard when we get a little too inquisitive - please?

LOL

Wayne

And as for Greg -

We still may need you Dr. Lector - how much longer are you gonna be with Bill?

You've nearly finished?

Great!

"When I wish upon a star...."

Roll on those wormholes!!!!!

Could you please hurry it along a bit Dr. Lector?

Please?

Can you do anything Dr. Lecter?

What is it you covet Greg?

Aha! You still wake up somestimes don't you? Wake up in the dark and hear the words screaming at you?

Do you think if you make the finals, you could make them stop...? Do you think if you get an envelope with the gold lettering, you won't wake up in the dark, ever again, to the screaming of the words? Do you...?

Hmmmm - I've only seen this affliction once before.......Sybil...1976.

Is it treatable?

No....but I can cure it.

How?

Is there a good chianti on board? ...and some fava beans?

And Greg, ... I'd like to meet your wife!!!

Oh, and Greg...

Dr. Lecter's been on board this post since it took off!

Around 10/12/03 4.35pm my concerns were heightened and I decided to see if any suitably qualified assistance was on board - just in case! It turned out Dr. Lecter was already treating one poor BB shocked casualty - and its reassuring to know such professional help is close by should any one of us need it.

In your case, its strange for symptons to register so early, but don't worry, - you're in safe and capable hands!

Oh, and when the stewardess comes round, just make sure you take another blue pill - if you take the red one....

... I don't want to even think about it! ...just take the blue one and you keep flying ...the plane doesn't land....got it!

Have a nice day!

Greg

It might help if you take polaroids, and write things on your body, to help you remember what earlier posts were about, and ...er... which, let us say, character you're playing at the moment.

We're here to help Greg ... truly! We are....

It seems that most of the advice for novelists is to include the ending - but advice for screenwriters is varied.

The fact is - novels and screenplays are very different - books go from A to Z on the backroads - screenplays are two hour rollercoasters that go straight down the freeway and throw the tourist attractions they want you to see across the windscreen as you go by. From screenwriting books I have read, many seem to suggest to avoid writing a synopsis if possible - don't give the studios any excuse not to read your entire script.

Another article I found:

"The formula is always the same: a bird's eye view of the story; letting the reader know what to expect; withholding enough detail to save the suspense."

I would say use anything in your synopsis to make your story appeal - it's hard to do this in a synopsis - your story may be light, but your scenes,characters,location,and concept might be "Oscar clips" - it may be hard to present this well in a synopsis - could you really do movies like "The Matrix", "Dances with Wolves", "Thelma & Louise", and "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest" justice with a synopsis? Anything to encourage and convince anyone to read the actual script is important, and maybe some intrigue and suspense is a good way to do this - just like movie trailers do. Tell the ending, in part, or in full, but just make it as interesting and attention grabbing as possible.

To summarise: 1) Only write a synopsis when you have to. 2) Make it as interesting as possible - its an advertising brochure - not a sales brochure!

Regards

Wayne

Jerry

The blunt fact is - there is varied advice on writing a synopsis for screenplays - you're not the only one to read books or articles on the net - and there are some fairly experienced people on this BB with their own ideas about it - it's interesting to get everyones views, and debate them through - hopefully we'll all be enriched with a little more understanding of this craft - I certainly have been after some of the debates on other posts. I don't think theres any need to say people look stupid if they do this or that - most of us are on a learning curve and are here to learn - and thrashing things out in open debate is a good way to do it - the only thing stupid would be not to have open debate and listen to the point of view of others - and admittedly there has been some heavyweight comment agreeing with your point of view.

As I've said before - my idea of a professional is someone who is good enough at their craft to earn a living from it - and a lot of us are amateurs, no matter which way you look at it. In my opinion, novels are entirely different to screenplays.

I would be interested to know - is a novelist expected to provide a synopsis to a publisher? And is it submitted at the same time as the manuscript? Who reads the synopsis - is it the "reader", or the "editor"?

Screenplay "readers" - agents, prodcos or otherwise - read dozens of scripts a week - its a much bigger investment to have to read a novel - maybe thats why novels have to have more detailed synopsises and they are more prevailent?

The one thing that stood out on the net - there is advice for novelists, and advice for screenwriters, - and they're separate! Same with books - I don't see Trottier saying his Bible also applies to novelists!

A novel is the final product - a synopsis for a novel is a sales brochure for the publisher.

A screenplay is the sales brochure for a movie! The movie is the final product.

Much as an advertising brochure in your mailbox will list benefits and entice you to go down to the showroom and test drive that new car - it's to get you to take a look at the product -it won't tell you everything.

The sales brochure in the showroom will list the features and specifications - fuel economy, engine performance, paint options etc. - things you need to know before making a final decision on the product, but the screenplay does this for the movie, - its the blueprint.

Many things can change after the screenplay is sold - the ending for one!

I would consider a treatment to be a sales brochure for a screenplay - A-Z, ending, warts, and all - no argument there.

But I find it difficult to see that completely divulging a unique, clever, chain twist ending in a one page synopsis (theres a lot that will have to be left out anyway) would enhance the reading experience of a screenplay - (and that seems to be a consistent comment from readers - they want a good read!) - or the chances of it getting read.

(On page 258 of Trottier he says there is a difference between a professional story synopsis and a spec synopsis - written for marketing purposes) There is an example of each written on the same screenplay - it is easy to see why screenplays do actually need loglines and not synopsises. The keyword for screenwriters in Trottiers comments - marketing! - and thats what publishers and movie makers are doing when they write their jackets and trailers to entice you to part with your dosh. And the "professional story synopsis" on page 267 of Trottiers Bible cannot be described as "marketing" - by a long shot (its boring - period!)

Is a studio going to reject your fantastic concept just because you don't fully explain one particular facet of plot line in your brief synopsis.

As a reader, do you want to see the Dr. in The Sixth Sense as a person, or a ghost? Or do you want to know that Murphy in One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest dies in the end? Or that no matter what Neo does, the Sentinels are going to destroy Zion?

My advice - leave out whatever you like as long as you make it as alluring, compelling, and interesting, as possible - don't follow the same rules as for a professional story synopsis - and if your marketing (attention factor!)is right, it won't matter whether you fully explain the ending (or beginning or middle) or not.



Regards

Wayne

I think the synopsis for "The Sixth Sense" says it all.

I've never said not to allude to the ending, just maybe not include all the details.

And as to what Gil said earlier - I don't agree that someone will always be already interested in the screenplay, when they ask for a synopsis.

This thread started with someone asking about a synopsis for a contest - which will probably only be used as a tracking device anyway.

And, if someone asks for a synopsis, I would think it indicates that they aren't too interested at that point, and aren't prepared to invest too much time and energy in your concept - so your synopsis had better impress and intrigue them - take a look at the "full" synopsis in Trottier - and see if that "impresses" you, more say than "The Sixth Sense" example above.

And Jerry, even if the "rules" are set in stone, (and after seeing other synopsises like the one above, I don't think they are) and those here with a different opinion to yourself are technically wrong, it doesn't hurt to have a good discussion about them.

Regards

Wayne

And Kirsten,

I do agree with many of the points you make, particularly the point about tracking the clues, but there are ways to allude to the cleverness of the ending, without giving the whole thing away.

In my synopsis I mention the fact that theres a chain twist - everyones been set up - played like chess pieces - someone has an awesome master plan that is even bigger than the $30 billion sting - I just don't say who it is - and just like "The Sixth Sense", the clues are immediately obvious. Take a film like "Seven" - do you need to know that Mills kills John Doe - I suspect there are several possible endings to that movie - the synopsis would generate interest way before that point. I would feel pretty "deflated" putting the full details of my ending in my synopsis - and would the "errors" the reader found, as in "The Sixth Sense" and "The Usual Suspects", whilst looking for "clues" tend to put them off - it is said that the ending in "The Usual Suspects" totally negates the whole plot.

It would be interesting to see a few more actual screenwriter synopsises for major films.

And my final comment - LOGLINES - LOGLINES - LOGLINES - make them KILLERS!!!!!! so you don't have to write synopsises! Regards

Wayne

No Eric, theres a few of us!

I think you need to clarify this a bit - loglines up to 60 words seem acceptable - write one with a bit more detail then cut it down if you have to.

If you want help with the logline you'll need to give us more info - a bit of a synopsis.

Regards

Wayne

Yeah - love to read a few pages. Email text, pdf, or Final Draft.

Regards

Wayne

I haven't been able to come to the bulletin board for a few weeks and this is the first thread I've looked at -

Terri - I'm very sorry someone has upset you with a nasty email.

I have only been visiting the bulletin board for a short time, but you shine like a star - as in the big bright hot type that radiates in the universe and gives energy to everybody.

You scorch over this BB like a solar wind, keeping us warm, and occassionally giving one or two of us sunburn if we venture too close! And the smiles just ooze from my computer when you're about.

Terri - I know this isn't the first nasty email you've got ( the other one was from an asshole too - remember how phony he was!), and it probably won't be your last - and occasionally they do burn!!! - but there are a lot of people out here that you touch - and we like the way you touch us - please don't stop!

Time after time you help people on this BB, and I have first hand experience of the immense energy, time (seriously - how do you do it? !!!) and unselfish application you so generously give to others, ...I believe in most cases, perfect strangers, like myself, ...and this is off the BB, invisible to others, and in addition to the wonderful online contribution you make that all of us appreciate.

I no longer consider myself a perfect stranger Terri ... you have lots of friends on this BB, and when you do burn .... we'll be standing by with lots of suncream and bug spray to shoo those nasty little mosquitos! (Definition of Mosquito - any of a group of flies with scaly wings and able to transmit diseases.)

Terri - YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

LOL (Lots of Love!) Wayne

Fraser

I had my original idea over five years ago - I thought it was a great idea - but never really saw myself as the person to actually write the screenplay. I started writing the story down in notebooks several times - I love writing opening scenes - but usually only got to about 5 or ten pages then would put the notebook down - starting all over again several weeks later and rewriting the first 5 - 10 pages - I ended up with about half a dozen notebooks all with a slightly different opening, and never getting into my actual original idea. The original idea was based on the Millenium bug, and then I developed a secondary idea about phantom terrorists, ....and then 9/11 blew the whole thing out of the water .... and .......and......

The point I'm trying to make is ...paddle like hell but don't worry if you don't catch the bigger waves first time... relax till you can channel your passion into big waves and ride them like a surfer ... wait till the surf is up, ...the wind is blowing, and those big waves are rolling in!

This year I found myself with some time and I pulled out all my old notebooks ... threw them away ... and started again ... and I just sat down and did it ... it flowed ... and so did my mind ... when it didn't, I carried a dictaphone or notebook around with me, pulled over the car when an idea to develop the plot hit me ... got out of bed at 4am and jotted down some more ... thought about it with a passion ... wrote every chance I had, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience ... and hit page 70 before I ran out of waves ... then I started to visualise an ending so I jumped to page 100 and surfed the other end of the beach ... then I went back and wrote 70 - 100 ... by this time back in full flow ... then I had timing problems so had to rewrite pages 90 - 105 .... and so on ... but I had about 110 pages!

The problem then ....is that you go blind.... it had taken me three weeks to write it and another 3 weeks to clean it up ... but its only now ... 3 mths further down the track that I'm beginning to see the real work I have to do to rewrite this script so that it may be anywhere near presentable for a competition, let alone a producer.

Wait until you can attack your writing with a passion (you will feel the FORCE!- the more passion - the bigger the waves!), and you can give it the time and energy it needs, ...then shut yourself away as soon as a wave begins to swell beneath you (sell the idea to your wife first!) and let your imagination flow - ....if it doesn't ...don't worry, just keep paddling ....until a big wave swells up, ....and you can hang ten on your board!!!!

Regards

Wayne

Fraser

Writing by the seat of your pants is fine - you'll find your first draft effectively becomes your outline anyway - so many things change - the guy who wrote The Sixth Sense got to the fifth draft before he realised Bruce Willis's character was dead. You'll find some of things you've written work, and maybe can be developed a bit further, and that some things don't, and need changing completely - your screenplay will evolve until you're ready to show it to somebody, and then if you're lucky you'll get some good feedback and find dozens of other changes. Some of the people on this BB say to put it in a draw and write another one - I think thats a very good idea - after you've had a bit of feedback so you know the areas you need to strengthen in your writing. Mines in the draw at the moment - I'm hoping to find some inspired time to improve the dialogue and weak plot points at some stage - but already I have two new screenplay ideas - and I'm just waiting till some big waves (hopefully!)come along!

Regards

Wayne

Same with me - I read the books after I had written my screenplay - and I think it fitted the act structure reasonably well - maybe we develop an instinctive act awareness after watching hundreds of movies over the years - think the key word above is "pumping" - write when your "pumped" - churn it out passionately - enjoy it! - if you get stuck go forward into other parts of the story, or go back and revise and rewrite - try to keep the momentum and flow as much as you can - I thought (and wrote!) about my screenplay for several weeks, whatever I was doing, - off into another world - (I think if I had the plot already completely mapped out, it may have spoilt the challenge of continually working the movie in my mind, and inhibited my creativity) -it was very enjoyable -I'm sure my endorphin levels skyrocketed - I think a pretty relaxed state helped - no - I wasn't on anything - but I did seem to be inspired - I hope I can generate that enthusiasm again at some stage - I wrote for the sheer enjoyment as much as anything..... sorry got to go..... there's some big waves rolling in!!!!

Irritable or short-tempered; irascible.

That definition doesn't do it justice -

this is from "Snarky Bitches" website

This ring is for girls/women who are bitches, plain and simple. Bitches who talk smack behind people's backs. Bitches who screw over their ex's in any way possible, and anyone else in their way. Bitches who've done real shitty things to people, and quite frankly don't give a damn. Though, snarkdom is the key. Anyone can be a clutchpig, but to be a true bitch, one must possess wit and a razor-tongue.

Requirements:

+you must be a bitch +you must be female +you must have a cool site +have an inkling what "snarky" means (particularly the last bit)

We don't ask for much. Just exhibit any of these features and you're in.

"Hell hath no fury like a bad girl dumped ill."

word to that pseudodictionary, a drink for all ages snarky - When the word "bitchy" is too negative, use "snarky."

e.g., Peter said we couldn't go to the movies without giving any explanation as to why not. We all agreed that he was just being snarky, so we went without him.

After researching those definitions

I would say:

A snark = a sexy bitch

Snarky = sexily bitchy!

Regards

Wayne

Terri you're such a snark!!!!

LOL

Wayne

Oh I don't know .... maybe he has a feminine side????

Elton can be a bitch ... so says George anyway!!!!

Now George could be a snark!!!

And I think Brad will definitely be snarky when he finds Jennifer has been playing away!!!

Oh Yeah Baby!!!!

Mini Me ....Please!!!!!

Michael Mann is a pretty cool director - and Miami Vice was one of the most ground breaking shows in TV history - I liked a lot of what he did with Manhunter - particularly with Peterson, and the "forensic" tension he created. The opposite happened when he got to direct Heat - the original wasn't too bad - but the Mann style created some memorable movie scenes, - the "unbelievable" over the top street shootout that a short time later was re-enacted in real time - shame about the ending though - but how many endings are realistic! Shame we don't see more of him working with the likes of Hopkins. Brian Cox wasn't too bad as Lecter, and was devastated not to be given the following roles, although it would be hard to see him now in the same league as Hopkin's Lecter.

I really enjoy seeing remakes of movies - to see the contrasts between directors etc. The French versions I have seen generally seem to have the edge - Three Men and A Baby, Three Fugitives, and The Talented Mr Ripley. IMO the latter is blown away by the French black and white original.

Regards

Wayne

Gil - I'm sure you're right - I'm just taking the mickey - based on the few brief searches I did.

The actual (only) dictionary def. I found in the few brief searches I did (on only one search engine) seemed way off - it wasn't in my shelf dictionaries - and some of the others were just funny!

Snarky is a word I've heard before, so it's in use here - it's almost a made up word that just slips out - as a perfect in- between description - it could originate from - Snakey, narkey, etc.

Quite enjoyable catching up with some things that pop up from time to time!

Regards

Wayne

The logline's unforgiven!

Just be nice to your boss .... be really nice!!!!! .... and your therapist!!!....

Maybe it's the name? ....I don't know!.......

Hey, ...who knows? ..... send it to Clint ....

Make his day!!!!

PS.

Fraser - Don't post any more loglines on the BB - guard them with your life!!!! .... people WILL steal them !!!

Put them in a envelope - seal it with security tape - and take them down to the bank .... (I'd chose one thats not in your script) ... and get yourself a safe deposit box ... one not too close to the door ..... and with only one key (specify that!)....

PPS.

Make sure you write on the envelope - "Not to be opened in the event of my death" ....

And then ... every time you lodge a logline with the bank ... buy yourself and your mom a lottery ticket on the way home ......

.... and sunscreen .... buy some sunscreen!!

Regards

Wayne

I'm not sure what the title of the French version is - I missed the start - but I'm sure it was black and white - and it was exceptional - I wish I could get hold of more "originals" - particularly the French ones!

Regards

Wayne

WHAT HAVE I BEEN MISSING??????

Wayne

I have just returned to this BB after an absence for a few months - I haven't had a chance to catch up with all the threads or postings, but the few I've read in this thread have shocked (and surprised!!!) me.

I haven't seen anything like it before on the BB, nor expected anything like it from some of the regular contributors.

- like Jerry - my jaw dropped - all the way to the floor!!! I haven't caught up with all the postings (hopefully I may be filled in! as to what has happened and the catalyst for the incandescent comet that seems to have scorched over the BB) - Hale Bop did strange things to people too!!!)

- but it does remind me of something that happened to me once.

My fantastic flatmate and new friend of six months confided that up till recently she had worked in a massage parlour and had performed "extras" on a regular basis - I was shocked and rung my mum.

"Mum, Diane used to be a HOOKER!" I blerted.

"SO?"

- came the reply - "Isn't she a fantastic flatmate and don't you have a terrific time when you go out with her?"

???

"YES"

I said.....

Wayne

Here's a prediction -

I would say that within 3 - 5 years Peter Jackson will be running one of the biggest and most prestigous film studios in the world!!!

- from New Zealand!!!

The days of an LA monopoly are over!!!

1)Onlinelotteries.com 2)Getalife.com 3=)MontyPythonandtheHolyGrail.com 3=)Samaritans.god

"What s/he's telling you is just pure, unadulterated crap. Virtually ALL screenwriting programs put in (CONT'D) automatically! It's bunk."

I agree with the sentiment, but POV and CONT'D are obsolete despite some of the main screenwriting programs still putting them in.

Professionals seem to be able to get away with anything, and a lot of readers in any capacity must still be "old school", so I think a good story will still impress - getting it in the door and illiciting a "decision" to read will still be the new screenwriters biggest hurdle - and thats where the dilema of - "look like a pro" , or "stand out from the crowd" poses the most surmountable headache.

Once that read decision has been made, I'm sure "small imperfections" in formatting or presentation will be of little conseqence.

It all really comes down to "content".

Do you think Peter Jackson's "presentation" or track record - six unbankable films including two gory slasher, puppet "pornography", a documentary hoax, a horror, and one well done indie film - all done in New Zealand - would impress any studio to give him over $300 million to direct an unprecendented 3 films similtaniously - in New Zealand - using New Zealand film talent? No?

Obviously - in spite of any shortcomings - PJ's creativity and talent shone out like a laser beam from his work and presentations - cutting through Hollywoods granite ... you have to impress Hollywood with the content of your presentation - and develop a track record or marketing campaign just impressive enough for them to open the door to you - just a crack!

WD

"I have noticed that your questions tend to be about things that are very, very basic to screenwriting. So I highly recommend--before you write any more of your script and get stuck trying to figure out all of these things as you go--that you buy and read some good books on screenwriting. I also recommend, if you can afford it, that you attend screenwriting seminars, or take screenwriting classes. That will provide plenty of information for you. But I think you really need to start with the basics."

"I personally think THE SCREENWRITER'S BIBLE is a pretty good primer."

Isn't it amazing how people that tell you to read books to answer the most basic questions don't actually READ them themselves!!!!!

Maybe it's because they're "PRO'S" ....

TROTTIER - Page 138

"Don't use either continuing or cont'd."

Maybe a few of the "know it alls" should "get back to basics"!!!!!

.... or write their own "Screenwriting Bibles".....

Just a "POLITE" suggestion of course...

WD

"Wayne, what on Earth do you base such a statement on?"

Ah, .....books actually, ...several ... and some up - to - date articles off the internet...

oh, ... and some pretty well informed screenwriting publications my Writers Guild sends me from time to time ....

... but I do understand you Pro's are very busy being Pro's .... self importance workshops and all that ....

Still, ...I'm sure theres still a lot of space left in those heads of yours for the three L's, and they just might come in handy sometime ... Listening, Looking, and Learning ....

Humbly Yours

WD

Oh No!!!!!

Another one that doesn't READ!!!!

This whole forum is about "Newbie" questions, no matter how basic,sharing knowledge, and helping others out ....

My point was the self rightious few that quite arrogantly and ignorantly try to dictate their point of view,as if superior and expertly knowledgeable, -and in the process are less than polite to BB posters just trying to help others and generate interesting and thought provoking ... in other words "healthy" discussion, - without having done the "basic research" themselves, as on the "POV" thread.

The discontinued use of "CON'T" is in many books and publications, and all over the internet, but some still chose to arrogantly push their ill informed "know it all", "Pro" personalities and "expertise" without actually being in a position to do so, ... and in a superior manner offensive to others.

We're all here to learn, and as far as I'm concerned, as I've said before, my "definition" of a "Pro", is someone who can make a good living at what they do - until then they're just "Amateurs" like the rest of us!!!

WD

Oh .... and by the way ... just to make it perfectly clear for those of you who don't have "The Screenwriters Bible" 3rd Edition, by David Trottier, (or the many other publications that state the same thing), ... and for those that have it but don't read it because they "know better"..., and for those who recommend others to read books but don't themselves - because they "don't need to" - they're "PRO's" of course!" ...

Page 138 - Heading "Continuing and Cont'd"

".....The above devices are no longer used in spec scripts. Don't use either continuing or cont'd."

Regards

WD

"On the subject...I can't imagine that a producer gives a rat's ass whether con't is in the script or not. What counts to her is that the story, if made, can at least break even."

"Oh... check out the "Return of the King" script. Con't is on the very first page (as well as the second!). Write a good story...who cares?"

Another WHO doesn't READ ... didn't you see my postings on the POV thread?

....or read this thread properly for that matter....

Steve

I'm not telling you to read books... I'm just sick of those self proclaimed "Pro's" that have such big heads and big egos that they think they know it all, and are telling others to read books they themselves haven't even bothered to read, and acting like authoritarians in a egotistical and offensive manner.

ie. "Wayne, what on Earth do you base such a statement on?"

Fact ... actually!!!

This BB is no place for ego's on "Turbo"!!!

WD

Advice like telling someone to use "CONT'D" when it has in fact been obsolete for some time!!!!! (The Screenwriters Bible - 3rd Edition - 1998!!!)

WD

Jerry

Please give examples of when I have given anyone advice that has been wrong, or instances when I have given anything other than an opinion on something that has been interesting and debatable?

WD

"You have a demonstrated tendency--and not just on this particular issue--to present your opinion as fact, as if you're a seasoned insider who really knows the ropes, when you're not and you don't."

Thats REALLY, REALLY RICH Jerry!!!!!

WD

Particularly as you don't seem to actually read the books you so "knowledgeably" recommend!!!!

WD

Jerry

I didn't think you'd have a reply for me....

...the problem you've got after shooting your mouth off and trying to be a big shot on the BB, without actually having any substance, is that every post you and I have ever made is available for anyone to read and examine... and I sure as hell know who this aplys to the most... of all the postings on the BB!!!!!

"You have a demonstrated tendency--and not just on this particular issue--to present your opinion as fact, as if you're a seasoned insider who really knows the ropes, when you're not and you don't."

"There is, however, a problem with someone new who throws out bad advice as fact. Advice that, if followed, would make a writer look like the rankest sort of amateur."

Regards

WD

Another "non - reader"!!! " "Wayne, what on Earth do you base such a statement on?"

Ah, .....books actually, ...several ... and some up - to - date articles off the internet...

oh, ... and some pretty well informed screenwriting publications my Writers Guild sends me from time to time .... "

I only used "The Screenwriters Bible" as this was the book Jerry was recommending someone read, and I couldn't believe Paula was telling someone to read books after spouting such drivel on the "POV" thread ....

All the LATEST books say "CONT'D" is obsolete .... my point was ...Trottier said it was obsolete in 1998 .... thats a long time ... it was purely ego driven drivel on the "POV" thread ...

...putting forward one's opinion is fine ... right or wrong ... but I found the patronizing hypocrisy of some of the "egotists" postings offensive.

Regards

WD

Idiots!!!!

This is nothing to do with "CONT'D"

I'm just sick of Jerry in particular attempting to "put down" in a most condenscending, patronizing, and quite frankly, rude way, anyone who doesn't join the "I agree with Jerry Club, or the "Isn't Jerry a Knowledgeable Chap Club."

It's one thing to refute someone else, have a "polite" and "respectful" disscussion, but egotistical "put downs" have no place here, particularly from people who try to make out they are more "expert" and knowledgeable than they really are.

The "where on earth did you get your information from" type of remark is offensive and is just one of the ways Jerry and others try to assert their self felt importance.

I'm not the only one to feel the brunt of this type of offensiveness, some of the others no longer bother with this BB - I'll think I'll soon be joining them - the failure of many to grasp the context of my posts baffles me!!!!

Will all the posters who apparently have readily joined the "I agree with Jerry Club" please actually read my posts in this and the "POV" thread, and Randy... please READ "The Screenwriters Bible", page 138!!!! (The words I used were " continuing and cont'd ... nothing to do with continuous or sluglines!!!!!!)

The only "Ass'es" around here are the last few poster's!!!!!

WD











WD

And Michele,

After your "snapping" and very unfair "rantings" and tirade against Terri a short while back....

It must be your turn to "slink off into obsurity".....

WD

And for the record....

Terri was a wonderful contributor to this BB. She is friendly, very funny, knowledgeable, and often "made my day".

She was in my experience the most helpful and approachable person on this BB, and gave many of us invaluable assistance.

As I tried to say earlier on another thread (need some help with famous movie scene ideas), I don't care about her "real" identity or if she sometimes posts under other names ... we all have the right to do that if we wish......so what?... is there any real evidence (again, even if there is...(saying she was Ellum was ridiculous...)...so what?) or justification for some of the accusations and nasty tirades that were made against her.....

Terri made a very, very "big" contribution to this BB....I've described her in the past as a bright star... the sort that shines in the universe....

She is sorely missed by many of us....

I hope she comes back....

WD

It was obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that Terri was not Ellum, and if anybody would actually take the time to actually READ posts, get to know the personalties, and where they're coming from, (as well as check e-mail addresses ... mine is very clearly .nz), instead of shooting their mouths and egos off, and actually engaging their brains before reading posts or replying, and treat others with the same respect they would expect for themselves, instead of trying to put others down in some strange display of superiority, ...then this BB might become a "nice" place again!!!!

WD

Fair comment....

I should have referenced the "POV" thread .... I thought the quotation marks would be enough (it didn't really matter what thread they had come from!)....I started another thread because this has happened many times in the past, not only on the "POV" thread, and I am sick of it.

Now...

Jerry has "slam - dunked" himself...

Randy has "SLAM - DUNKED" himself...

Is anybody else gonna have a go?.....

WD

..."you that made the first stupid mistake of mixing up the word "continued" with the slugline "continous", as I tried to politely point out at the beginning of this thread, but you obviously "didn't read it" properly. "

Where did I mention "continuous" in my posts? Whose stupid mistake?

"the posts on this tread don't seem to warrant any of your accusations."

I started this thread!!!! My "accusations" weren't about postings on this thread( obvious if you switch on your brain cell!) ... but the "POV" thread ( and rudeness and offense comments on all posts)

(It really is hand - holding day today!)

"there were basic flaws in the beginning premise of this thread that seem to continue."

Were there? The lack of understanding was yours!!! Writers are supposed to be of "above average intelligence"!!!!

Stick with Stan Lee for now .... next year we'll try moving you up to J.K. Rowling...

And for gods sake!...don't attempt "War & Peace"!!!!

Regards

WD

Randy

Double or Quits?

After you've dug yourself out of the basket for the second time...

...feel free to come back and have another go!!!

Regards

WD

Whats that rule you Americans have?...

"3 Dunks and you're out?".....

Bring it on!!!!

WD

What? ....

...No more takers?

"Warriors ... come out to plaaaaaay!!!"

Oh well!!!

Maybe its time we closed this thread and got back to making some meaningful (polite & respectful!) contributions to screenwriting threads....

Cheers

Wayne

Going on holiday for a few days....

Bay of Islands....

Will chill-out with a few Fosters, ... catch a few Marlin, ....shoot a few baskets....

Slinking off....

Wayne

Wayne

The only "imposters" on this BB are "writers" who ....

.... think Koala Bears' come from New Zealand..

... think Wallabys' come from New Zealand...

... think Charlize Theron comes from New Zealand...

...don't recognize that .nz means a New Zealand email address....

...can't spell....

DORKS!!!!!!

And as for those trying to impress " Hollywood Professionals" lurking looking for "hires"....

...Buy a Powerball ticket!!!!!

Now I'm gonna go over to the "Self -Appreciation Society's" "WHY all the discussion" thread to have a laugh at their "damage limitation" exercise...

They're all "rubbing" each others backs so hard!!!...

...maybe they're all the same pers....

No!!!!!!

LOL

WD

PS. I'm sure you must use it over there ( there appears to be so many of them!!!), but just in case....

... a "dork" is a sort of cross between ... a dick-head .... a wanker... and a nerd....

Your Kiwi friend

(Now Kiwis' ... they come from New Zealand!!!)

WD

At last ... a post that has made me laugh ... ( in a nice friendly way! )

Next time Rachel Hunter comes over to my house I'll send you a photo....

WD

D. Jay...

...your're making me LAUGH !!!!!!

?????????

Are you sure your're not Terri ??????

WD

Some great examples from Gil...

...particularly John Voight ... powerful "cinematic" moments making a movie (possibly less than memorable without them) , memorable.

In my opinion it's the "cinematic" aspects that grab us emotionally and make the film stand out and be memorable.... (much the same as what Gil is saying I think...)

...perhaps portraying in a "cinematic" fashion what a great painter would portray on a canvass.....the same magnificient artistry and creativity .... but on 35 mm.

(If you've ever seen a Rembrandt up close you'll know what I mean!....)



...the "chief" lifting the water cooler in "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"....

... the buffalo stampede in "Dances with Wolves"...

( heres a passage from a Syd Field book, about DWW ...

"And then there were all those silences in the film, long, panoramic scenes of breathtaking beauty (Dean Semmler was the cinematographer) that captured the profound majesty of the land and made it echo so loudly in the heart. Silence can be such a profound moment in a film, as the great filmakers of the past constantly remind us." )

The "suits" walking .... Mr White, Mr Brown, Mr Pink etc. in "Reservoir Dogs"... and the "seemed worse than it was" torture scene.

"Jack Rabbit Slims"... in Pulp Fiction and the Thurman - Travolta dance.

"Blade Runner" .... the gas explosions over the wonderfully futuristic cityscape ... and Rutger Hauer's poignant demise....

The opening credits of "The Warriors"...

The opening scenes in "Cliffhanger"...

The wonderful beach house sequence in "Betty Blue"...

Bob Hoskins in the shower, ...and men hanging upside down from meat-hooks in "The Long Good Friday" - I stole this scene for my screenplay ... hey .. if Tarintino can do it!

David Lynch - sureal mastery in "Blue Velvet", "Mulholland Drive", and "Twin Peaks"....

The banjo scene in "Deliverance"...

.... the "you can't handle the truth!" scene in "A Few Good Men"...

... the realism of "Black Hawk Down"..

...the desparation in "Midnight Express"...

... the Russian roulette in "The Deer Hunter"....

All of these movies have many more great "cinematic" scenes ... each of us may have differing or more powerful scenes that make the movie memorable, ... but these are the ones that do it most for me.

Regards

Wayne

You've got me going now Gil....

The monkey in "2001"...

The helicopters in "Apocalypse Now"...

Mickey Rouke in "Body Heat", "9 1/2 Weeks", and "Angel Heart"....yes I do think this was "cinematic" art...he was so "cool"....maybe we could have a discussion as to what actually rates as "cinematic"....

The car chase in "Bullitt"... and "The French Connection"...

..on the bike in "Butch Cassidy..."

the milkbar in "Clockwork Orange" along with the costumes...

...taking over the train in "The Peacemaker"...

Despite all the other examples of what in my opinion , are cinematic scenes,... I think the one that nails it is the John Voight scene.....

Also... is there such a thing as the "cinematic" masterpiece .... films such as ... "The Shawshank Redemption"..."The Usual Suspects"...."The Color Purple", ...that are "overall" cinematic works rather than having standout scenes?.....

WD

Maori !!!!!!

( See my point !!! )

WD

P.S D.Jay....

....do you think you could send me a photo of you standing beside....

...Three Mile Island ????

Regards

WD

"I can see it happening with an established and proven player, but the notion of an unknown writer getting paid for an idea and a few pages of fleshing it out, just strikes me as immensely unlikely."

I think this is pretty much spot on...

I believe James Cameron did the Terminator series as treatments....

I've seen the T2 one .... it's pretty long...

I think you can still copyright a treatment....

...and it could be a good tool for outlining your ideas.... or "selling" them to another writer to collaborate... or a tool to copyright your "idea" quickly ... but I think the "less" you had down, ..the less protection you would have...

..you may get paid for a basic treatment if the idea was good enough, but I wouldn't think it would be very much....there are movies where in the credits it says ..."based on an idea (or story ) by...." , ...maybe someone knows some more about how some of these have come about....

...but I still think the problem would be getting in the door ... and all the "door-bangers" have "great" ideas...

... everything I have read seems to confirm Jerry's take.

Regards

Wayne

If they like your talent enough to ask for more .... you've already opened the door .... and you're happy your treatments are a good reflection ... then I would say sure ...

...but then you might run into problems ... to make sure you get paid to develop your treatment further, or have some certainty that your efforts will pay off....

...make sure you're dealing with reputable people... and have things legally watertight....

Regards

Wayne

My understanding....

If a scene is part of your script ... it's part of your script... ( just like a film editor, you have often got to be ruthless to keep your story "tight" ) .....

... but just like camera angles, and in the main, music, scores etc. .... (again, if a particular track is playing on the radio, and it's essential to the story, mood, or underlying "message" ... leave it in )....

...it's left to the director to "direct" where opening credits etc. go....

Regards

Wayne

I would say that if you had an incredibly brilliant idea for the opening credits ( ie. Se7en ) .... it would be a shame not to be heard....

...but the screenplay would have to sell on it's merits ... and hey ... if you've sold a screenplay .... you're a pretty important person! ... maybe you could get to meet the director at some early stage .... and have a very quiet, tactful "word in his ear"....

...I believe the "rules" have just changed to stop non - established directors putting ....

" A film by (director)" ... in the credits....

This would be a bit more recognition for writers...

Regards

Wayne

Captain America ....

You're back !!!!!!

What happened to that other forum you said you'd been hanging out in when it got too much for you here ....

...."Screenwriting for Guppies..." or something ....

Back to shoot a few more baskets?

P.S I think the "ego preening" therapy thread is "WHY all the discussion" ....

Be careful out there! ....

Regards

WD

At last!!!!!

Someone is getting the point!!!!

( Smart-arse ...(as we would say!) comments are great....if they're fun!

....it's when people think it's some "put - down" competition in general contributions ... we're all here to enjoy and learn, and everybody deserves respect .... )

I didn't mention any names in my opening posts on this thread .... it was just a sacastic dig at those who would know who I was talking about....

...isn't it amazing how "road rage" escalates....

Regards

Wayne

P.S.

Isn't it lucky I normally wait two or three posts before giving someone a "broadside"....

Talk about "Screwing the Pooch" ....

( or the bear .... sorry .... marsupial .... I'll have to get on to Mr Howard about that! ... )

WHEW!!!! .... that was close!!!!!

WD

P.P.S.

Now don't get me wrong....

Just to alay any confusion....

...particularly for D.Jay....

Mr. Howard .... he lives in....

A.U.S.T.R.A.L.I.A.

...

WD

Thinking about this further.....

When we say something is "artistic" or has been done "artistically" we are generally talking about something positively .... the "artistry" and creativity has grabbed us ... emotionally. inspirationally etc. ....it has evoked some form of "awe" in us....

Maybe "cinematic" is the same description, but just a different medium.....

I haven't tried to look up any type of definition, ... but both Ellum and myself seemed to come up with the same sort of examples ... the moments in a film that ectched themselves into our memories visually and emotionally .... and in some way helped "make" the movie...

... sometimes even creating a "false" , but lasting "impression" .... a picture in my mind ... but not necessarily the "reality" actually portrayed...

ie. ...the "suits" walking in Res Dogs... it's on all the posters ... but is it actually so impressive in the movie ? ... the "torture" ... we "see" more in our minds than was really portrayed....

... I know the scenes that moved me ... but when I try to actually describe some of them in detail ...

... I have a picture in my mind of John Voight on the train.... the monkey smashing the bone down ... Jack Nicolson watching the world series on a blank TV screen .... and the general "emotional" context...

... but some of the background details or "physical" context ellude me...

Many of these "cinematic" scenes have made it onto the covers of books and videos as marketing tools...

ie.

...William Dafoe dying in "Platoon"...

... Jacks "psycho" face with the axe from "The Shining"

... the spade from the "live burial" in "Blood Simple"....

Food for Thought....

Regards

Wayne

Sorry....

Gil !!!!

( Don't even think about it!!!!! )

WD

ZULU!!!!!!!!!

( I rest my case!!!!!)

WD

D.Jay....

I knew you were a "native" American!!!

I've seen you on "Jerry Springer" !!!

What "reservation" .... sorry "trailer park" .... are you from?????

Please send me a photo ....

you know .... in "native" headgear ....

.... I think it says "CAT", or "BEAR", or "DUCK", or something ....

No .... not the pointed one with "D" on....

"Dozer" ... now that would be a good one!!!!!!.....

Regards

WD

"Abridged" brain !!!!

WD

Sorry.....

...I've just been watching "Heavenly Creatures" .....

...where were we??....

Hurry D.Jay .... you need to be early to get into "Jerry Springer" ....

Come back soon....

Regards WD

You don't play the banjo by any chance do you D.Jay?....

WD

Well.....I did say there seems to be a lot of them over in your neck of the woods!!!!....

No D.Jay .... not bears!!!!...

Ah well! ... I s'pose we should be thankful for what we've got .... think what it must be like over on that "Screenwriting for Guppies" BB...

Anyway, ....I'm off for some therapy myself .... Peter Jacksons "Braindead".... although I think it's called "Dead or Alive" in your neck of the woods .... ( maybe they thought people would be offended? )....

Pinch Yourselves!!!!

Be seeing ya!!!

WD

Sorry....

"Dead Alive" for you guys....

I myself think "Alive Dead" would have been more apt!....

( It's such a shame about the "pointy nose little pixie" isn't it!!!! )....

WD

Your posts generate "huge" credibility....

Thank you Greg...

WD

Paula....

I work as an independant film "analyst" for such various and diverse clients as the New Zealand Department of Corrections, and the New Zealand Mental Health Foundation.

I am asked to comment on the suitability of films ...that may be shown to the "inmates" in these institutions, ...and make suggestions as to any cuts that may be necessary.

I also, from time to time, am asked to comment on things such as television, particularly as to the violence in childrens programmes, advertisements, comic books, and sometimes even album covers on CDs.

I sometimes do work for the Chief Censor's office when they are behind with their film submissions.

At present I am doing a report into the connection between feature films and the suicide rate, which is extremely high in New Zealand.

In my spare time ... I visit this BB, go fishing, and shoot a lot of baskets, ...to relieve stress.

Regards

Wayne

Currently I'm working my way thru Peter Jackson movies....

I'm off to watch "Forgotten Silver"..

Regards

WD

D.Jay....

I can send you a photo of me with Ashlyn Gere....

...but you'll have to sign a disclaimer first....

Regards

WD

I didn't say the screenwriter was responsible for the opening credits on Se7en.....

...I just gave them as an example of "brilliant" opening credits..... ( I was aware of their origin )....

...but even though, in many cases, contracted out to third party workshops, the "original" idea for creativity in opening credit sequences may have come from anyone in the creative "chain" important enough for the director to listen to.

I would imagine that few movies go into early production with the opening or end credits fully "fleshed" out ... probably, like digital effects, given to a creative team "to see what they can come up with"....

Regards

Wayne

Aloha Eric....

Too bad you Hawaiians are so conservative...

LOL

Terri

Oops!!!!!

Er.....um.....

...Terri's just staying over for a few days.....

...Yeah... that's it .... Terri's just staying over for a few days.....

... um ....while she stops over on her round the world trip....

....Yeah .... that's why you guys haven't heard from her for a while ....

....she's vacationing!!!!

Oh .... and she sends her love!...

.... LOL and all that!!!!

Regards

Ellum

Doesn't LOL mean "Lots of Love" ?????.....

DAMN!!!!!!!!

Sybil

LOOK ..... it's about time we faced it!!!

.... REALITY ....

...there are only five "actual" people on this BB .. ( you missed a couple D.Jay .... but given your condition that's understandable! )...

.... Michele, Gil, D.Jay ( who could fake that huh!! ), Jerry ( ditto D.Jay ), and me! ....

Pinky Moore ....

....the best chicken sexer this side of Omaha!!! ...

"I'm coming out .... I want the world to see...." ....

"I'm Lovin' It" .... thats the title of my new screenplay ...

...it's a romantic/thriller set in McDonalds....

Logline: "Would you like french or fries with that?"

Have a nice day! ..... and remember! ....

What you say here .... can make a difference.... ( to your insulin levels! )

Luv

Pinky

Mecca baby .... these chickens is "halal"!!!!....

....and the sign outside....

...it says "Deaks Chickens" .... Rio Vista.....

.... and Omaha....

....thats where those "Rubber Ducks" go!!!....

Luv

Pinky

( it's my little finger ya know .... it's insured for more than "the sad little pixie's" nose!.... )

Actually .... theres six!....

...Sorry.... I forgot "Eric, the Hawaiian".. ( kinda reminds ya of that foot massager that developed a "speech impediment" doesn't it? )....

Anyway.....

...Slinky....

...I didn't say there was a sign saying "Omaha" did I honey!....

... I just said I was the best chicken sexer this side of Omaha....

... and come on moma .... this is show business..... ...."some names have been changed to protect individuals...." ....namely me!... ( I think that D.Jay is already stalking me!!! )....

..."Deaks" may have been something like .... I dunno ... "Huggybears" .... and chickens may have been "Chicks"....

....and Rio Vista .... may be Texas?...

and "Terri" may have been "Ashlyn"....

...and by the way... to sex chickens... you put your finger up their arse to see if they have testicles.... a bit like the ho's down Sunset really....

.... Luv ya...

Pinky

Hey!!!!!

....What did you expect?????

I said I was "coming out"....

...I didn't say I was coming out completely NAKED!!!!!!

Sybil

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........

.....TERRI!!!!! COME BACK!!!!!!!.....

.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

......PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!........

....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

Z....????????

....Who's Z ????????????????

Zed's Dead Baby!!!!!!!!!.......

.....Pinky, Ellum, Keyser, Jimmy H.....

.....ANYBODY!!!!!!!!!

.....PLEASE!!!!!!.....

......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............

Z ?????

....I must be dead !!!!!!....

....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........

Through my experience, like Jerry's, it's often better to wait a while after a new release of software before purchasing.

I eagerly purchased a new release of Scansoft's excellent Paperport software a while back .... I bought the downloadable copy the week it was released .... I couldn't believe it! ... it wouldn't run ... I had to rewrite three of it's initiation files using the old version's files as a guide and finally it ran perfectly....

I couldn't believe a big software company would release software so "sloppily" .... but they obviously do.....

....ideally try to get hold of a "trial" before purchasing, or try a "file sharing version"....

regards

Wayne

Just do your homework .....

....consult the best computer mags for their recommendations, and also the consumer watchdog type publications.... often the "Lab test" winners in the computer mags don't match the "real world" tests of the consumer watchdogs.

Inkjet printer ink is one of the biggest rip-off industrys in the world ... the price per litre (NZ sp) is astronomical and unjustifiable....buy a printer which uses separate ink cartridges wherever possible.....

A recent consummer test here found Epson cartridges told the consumer they were empty several hundred pages short... after an expert "hacked" the chip the cartridges went a lot longer...

... and they found that Epson laser toner cartridges ran over four thousand more pages when the chips in the cartridges were hacked....

( I managed to get one of the last Epson models without the ink cartridge chip and it can use refilled or "clone" cartridges no problem... I have found no problem with cloned cartridges from large companies ... and they are often only half or even a third of the price.)

The cost of a printer is not really that relevant... it's the running costs that really matter .. you can easily double the cost of the printer in the first year with ink costs.

A few years back the HP 500 series multicolour cartridges were 42 ml, the 800 series were 29 ml but still cost the same... then the 900 series were 19 ml and, yes,.. still cost the same .... I think now, a few years later, the cartridges don't even tell you how much ink is in them....

.... it's a rip-off minefield....

....watch out...

If I was buying an inkjet or laser I would seriously consider Brother, as they seem to be well built and offer separate ink cartridges for their inkjets, although I'm not aware of their print quality, and for photos or high print quality I would consider Canon.....

...Also .... a tip .... for inkjet cartridges that refuse to work... possibly dried out etc. through lack of use or clogging .... soak the cartridge print head in window cleaner... the brand we have here is "Mr Muscle" .... works wonders....

...cleaning cartridges using the printers software uses a lot of ink ( another rip-off design feature ).... you can take the cartridge out, dip it in a few mls of window cleaner for a few minutes, wipe it very carefully with a soft lint-free cloth, ... and put it back... try it!...

...Also, another point, .... some inkjets have the printhead in the printer... ie Epson ... and others in the ink cartridge... ie HP ... this mean that when you change the print cartridge you are also replacing the print head ... if you damage the printhead in a printer with an internal printhead, it's bye bye printer.... a point to consider when costing out replacement cartridges and running costs...

regards

Wayne

Well Crucify Me !!!!!!!!

....seems like an "exploitation" movie to me.....

...It justs goes to prove that even after thousands of years, media can still exploit the gullible masses....

....it's only when you study other religions, that you realise how ridiculous, ... and dangerous ..., your own is.....

....oh for a world without religion !!!......

...oops!..

...was that a prayer ?????...



WD

Movies are comercial enterprises..... marketed to the public for commercial gain....

Screenplays are a means to an end ... a movie... and are marketed to a very small powerbase of movie makers.....

Screenplays need to grasp the imagination of powerful moviemakers.....

...competitions are just a tool ( sometimes an illusionary one! ) for those without the influence to get the attention of these powerbrokers...

...Screenplays have no other purpose other than to portray and "play out" that movie in a readers imagination...

...and become the blueprint for that movie's generation....

...so to discuss TPOTC in terms of screenplay merit and competitions is totally irrelevant.... does Mel care?... NO!!!!! ..he is a powerbroker....his movie will be rated commercially and it's impact judged by column space in media....

....and it's "Biblical" message will just serve to strenghten the illusion of reality to what is, despite the fervent hallucinations of hundreds of millions throughout the centuries, just a legendary fantasy story that doesn't even rate as "science" fiction....

...As Christians worship their way towards their destiny with a small six foot hole in the earth that they call "Heaven"...

...perhaps they could consider....

"Imagination can give us hope, purpose, inspiration, pleasure, and limitless frontiers....

...but it doesn't have to give us answers .....

....When we know everything....

perhaps we'll be...

..."Gods" ???? ......

Regards

Wayne

Fair point Jerry....

...although I wouldn't consider myself from the "other side"....

A lot of churches here have gone into marketing "overdrive" ... hiring theatres and providing tickets at less than half price... grabbing a great opportunity to reinforce and imprint a "real-life" version of history that suits their particular doctrine...

... the problem, as technology advances, is that it is all too easy to "rewrite" history, in a particulary influential medium....

....at least in many cases .... such as war movies like "Saving Private Ryan"... and perhaps ... "Schindlers List".... we still have real life relics to refer to ... and temper the interpretations imprinted into our psyche.....

History.... is only as good as the quality of the relics and echoes left behind.....

The Bible is an echo that is only as loud as the sensitivity of the amplifier inside the human mind allows it to be.....

Regards

Wayne

Muddied waters, ..... dubious "facts", ...... vague generalities, ...... isn't that ...... "Religion" ?????? .......

I wish the "Almighty One" .... or one of them, .... would make his point and be done !!! ......

.... Arise Sir Donealot !!!!!! ......

...... or should that be "Sir Gonealot" ???????? .......

Regards

WD

I think it's a case of making it "more than it was" .......

.... and shame on you !!! .... talking about George W like that !!!! ....

Come on Condaleeza .... shoot the bastard!!!!!

Regards

WD

Hmmmmm ! .......

Mix and match threads!.......

...... I like that!.......

...Gonna make things really interesting!!!!.....

.... Again, ... kinda like religion .... "mix and match" reality!!!..

Regards

Wayne

.....

I appologise.....

...I thought we were talking about a man that thought he was god, and was going to get crucified.....

...my mistake.....

P.S

By the way .....

Is G W really Mabus ?????.....

.... I read it in a book somewhere ....

.... don't know who wrote it but it was pretty convincing....

....WD

Michelle and Co.

Michelle - you come across in most of your postings as a very nice person - but IMHO your attacks on Terri are unwarranted - I myself enjoy a good confrontation, but I try to be objective, and only land well deserved, defensive haymakers.

I know from experience that you do take accountability for your big mouth - but attacking Terri again is out of line - we all know that she has only recently come back to this BB after a horrendous personal attack several weeks ago - and here you are starting again - on someone whose postings are inoffensive, invaluably helpful, and extremely generous.

Telling us she is too tired at the moment but has some useful info she will post later - it's a pretty small minded person who would take offense at this - particularly if they had any inkling of the work Terri must put in to the contribution she makes on and off this board - I have just counted - Terri has sent me 429 emails, many including attachments, in the last few months - and I know she helps dozens of us. Who else on this BB makes anywhere near the contribution that Terri does?

I begged people to read my screenplay when I first joined this BB - about three offered - one read the first ten pages before his ego kicked back in, and the others didn't even bother giving me any feedback - Terri told me she was very busy - but would look at my screenplay at a future date - she did! Terri gave me over fifteen pages of feedback on my first ten pages - what sort of selflessness is this? !!!!!!

Fortunately there are people on this board that don't need to put others down, appreciate the contributions of others, and above all, are prepared to accept the "face value" personalties portrayed here with tolerance and sincerity.

Some time back, there was a contributor to this board that attacked both Terri and yourself, in a most negative and unwarranted manor - petty is probably the word I'm looking for - that person no longer posts - and I for one don't miss him - I will sorely miss Terri, - and yourself for that matter should you no longer post.

Please encourage postiveness in this BB - not negativeness!

Regards

Wayne

Terri

Lets face it! - you got too big for your boots! - in the eyes of the big - headed small minded bully brigade - the sort of people that have some sort of disfunctional personality that needs to put others down in order for them to feel that their lives are worth living ( unfortunately they're everywhere!!!)

Posting searchs in any old thread was one thing - but having the forsight to start posting on a dedicated thread, and having too many people realise that your star shines brighter than most on this BB - heavens forbid!!! - they couldn't help themselves - they had to take you down a few pegs on their percieved pecking order of "superiority" - and the pent up resentment sent those rocks flying!!!

The only bullshit flying around has been their accusations - they've given it their best shots - from Michelle calling your script searches bullshit, and her latest rubbish - telling you "this is when you find out who your true friends are", - to Jerry's usual and predictable put-down attempt calling my quite reasonable post a "rant" - another futile attempt Jerry!!

I have been too busy for some months to take my screenplay any further,and, truthfully, I doubt it will ever go any further, - so I certainly don't keep in contact with Terri, or anybody, to "help my career" - but it is notable how the sort of people that knock Terri use this accusation - it speaks volumes about their personalities -

I keep in contact with Terri because she is friendly, - her star really shines with warmth on this BB - I respect the work she does both on and off this BB, - and I know she needs a friend or two - she needs encouragement too!! - it would be nice to meet her,and others, one day!!

As I have said before - the relationships on this BB are "face value" - we all correspond in a medium of good faith - it would be nice if everyone could remember that!

Regards

Wayne