Message Board

I, too, entered this one and was disappointed not to at least receive a postcard or letter telling me I had not won. In addition, the problems with their website and unusable email address did not exactly inspire confidence. I think if we go to the trouble to send them a script and our money the least these contests can do is send us a letter. They also did not return my phone call. Cinestory, as well, simply sent an email. On the flip side, I have had a very good experience, as a first-timer, with Santa Fe, which has truly nice folks and a great-looking conference lineup. It didn't hurt that I did well either. I do think you have to pick and choose. I mainly chose contests with feedback provided, that were well known, or not too expensive. In the future I will be even more selective.

A year ago, I got this crazy idea in my head to write a screenplay. So I read every book I could find on screenwriting, started reading screenplays, and then looked around my city for classes. In the phone book a found a listing for a Screenwriters' Workshop; I don't know where you live, but there may be resources that you haven't found yet. Look at your local colleges, for example. I like meeting with the same people on a regular basis who are also struggling with writing issues, but many of whom have much more experience than I do.

Now I have a completed screenplay that has semi-finaled or finaled in several competitions, and have started my second. I wish you luck! Best screenwriting book: STORY by Robert McKee.

Haven't heard yet either. They were supposed to call winners in mid-March, write to losers by end of April. But they said the dates were "subject to change" so I hate to lose hope altogether . . .

I find legal writing really hard to read and comprehend. What I would do is focus on what type of case you're dealing with, look in the yellow pages or ask everyone you know if they know an attorney who is good in that area. A real practicing attorney in the given field will help you more. My husband is a lawyer and knows stuff you cannot read from any court case document. A real lawyer, even without a personal reference, might be flattered to have you call and say "I'm a screenwriter needing background info, can you help me?" Make it clear who you are and that you are not seeking free legal advice but researching for a creative project. Then, if you're lucky and they're not too busy, they might help you . . . but a personal reference would be best. Good luck. P.S. If it's about train accidents, let me know; my husband does train cases.

Hey D.G., I always thought the big four were Disney, Nicholl, Austin and Chesterfield, not Slamdance. Am I wrong? Is there debate on this?

I don't know about you, but I would be worried about any production company that claims to have the time and interest to read any and all unsolicited scripts from the world at large. Just a feeling . . .

Anybody else planning to go to the conference in Santa Fe Memorial Day weekend?

I'm not sage, but it's my understanding that WGA registration is not only sufficient, but in some ways superior. Others can correct me if I'm wrong. It is my understanding that the WGA is more likely to go to bat for you if you have problems; the copyright office is just there to document. Technically, your work is already copyrighted as yours because you authored it, getting official copyright just puts this down on paper and gets a date on it. Am I right folks?

Wow, the minute I put that up there someone else had the opposite info. No wonder you are confused Betsy! Perhaps both might not be a bad idea if there is not consensus on this?

This discussion made me paranoid, so I looked up in Brooke Wharton's book THE WRITER GOT SCREWED and in THE SCREENWRITER'S LEGAL GUIDE by Breimer, (both authors are attorneys) and they both agree with Sondra. I stand corrected.

Hey all, A friend of mine in the biz has this to say: "One thing I wish writers would understand (particularly beginners, who seems so all-consumed with protecting their material) is that a) rip-offs rarely happen and, b) if someone really wants to steal your material, they will. No copyright notice or WGA registration is going to prevent it. And besides, we should all have such problems. I would be happy to have written a script that's so good someone actually wants to steal it!" Food for thought. Most of us are working hard to get ANYONE to read our stuff, much less steal it.

I don't know about you, but don't you think if you've written a really good script, no one will care if there's a colon there or not?

Hey, John, I have been corresponding with Ken and we have exchanged scripts, so feel free to contact me if you'd like. I'll let Ken speak for himself. miriam.queensen@gte.net

Steve, You are right. Such behavior is juvenile, unprofessional and totally uncalled for. I hope Mr. Mensch will see to it that people who cannot remain civilized will lose their message board privileges.

Vogler. Christopher Vogler is the name you want. Looking forward to hearing from you, John.

Thanks, D.G. Yeah, it's my first year doing this so I'm going completely by hearsay. Which is why I hover over these messageboards . . .

Hey D.G. I tried accessing thedailyscript and couldn't get into it. What is the exact web address, and is it currently working for you? I am a recent AZ convert as well. Thanks, Miriam

I agree with that last, John. Look at Phantom Menace, with all that time, effort and $$ spent of fabulous beautiful effects, and a complete lack of interesting stories, drama or fun characters. The result? BORING! It's all in the script. Effects should be considered icing on the cake, not the be-all and end-all. Miriam P.S. haven't gotten your emails--look for the . in between my names. miriam.queensen@gte.net

Thanks, D.G. Got it! Love your enthusiasm. Usually hate people calling me nicknames, but yours are HEE-LARIOUS! Keep it up. M.

I agree, John. I practice selective boycotting all the time. If I MUST see something out of curiosity, I wait till it's out on video. That's why I haven't seen THE MATRIX either, because I saw clips of the guys with guns, and thought to myself, "that's not the kind of movie I want to support." The rest of the country may enjoy watching people shoot at each other, but I get enough of that on the nightly news.

Also agree on remakes. When you have a fabulous original, you'd better have something amazing to add to it, otherwise, why bother? Look at YOU'VE GOT MAIL -- already a remake several times over (Little Shop Around the Corner, In the Good Old Summertime, plus the musical She Loves Me). You wonder what they were thinking?

Miriam

Congrats, Doug. Sometimes it's nice to tell someone who knows how hard this can be and can appreciate your victories.

Steve, I'm waiting on ASA as well -- it's odd they don't want the whole script till the final round, hoping I'll get a chance to send it!

Miriam

I agree that sometimes violence has its place, and how it's presented can make a big difference. But in general I just don't like to watch it. I don't know about anyone else, but I would almost like a different R rating for violence than for sex cause I'd rather watch nudity than people exploding any day.

I guess I'll have to watch my thoughts. I had no idea my carelessly flung words had such impact.

Far be it for me to impede the progress of any Parisian butterflies . . .

I'm beginning to think there are almost no contests that run on the times that they say they will (except Santa Fe so far for me). Any word on this one?

DonnaMarie, did you ever get through???

I understood that they were calling winners on the third of May. Any lucky winners out there?

Miriam

Wow, Deb, no I don't think I would. Or at least have an attorney or agent take a good look at it before signing anything. Good luck.

Nancy, I emailed the guy at Monterey to ask if winners would be notified ahead of time, so that they could arrange to GO to Monterey for the "Screenwriting Day". He emailed back saying May 3rd they would call winners, and then mail to others the following week. I do not know if their "honorable mentions" will receive a call or letter. Given that almost every other contest I've entered this year has run 1-4 weeks later than they've said, I don't know what to think. I hate to give up hope . . .

Good luck to you!

Miriam

You'll have to forgive D.G., he's a very exuberant personality, and calls everyone funny names, so don't take it personally. Check out some of his other postings to see what he's called me! I'm sure he didn't mean to be condescending, did you, D.G.? ;-)

Nancy,

Congratulations on being an Honorable Mention! That is terrific. What is your script? I got the boot from them today, I'm afraid. But still glad to know one way or the other. I've had my share of good luck this year with others, so am not upset.

Miriam

Michael,

I semi-finaled too, and got the "thank you for entering, BUT . . ." letter some time ago. I should think you would have heard as well. You might want to drop them a line or call. Hope you didn't get lost somehow--

Good luck.

Does anyone know anything about this one? I tried to email them, got no reply. Thanks, Miriam

Nowadays the term seems more loosely applied than it used to be. Film noir was almost always a detective or crime story, and mostly took place (if not exclusively) at night, hence the darkness implicit in the French word "noir". The subject matter was always dark, the film style visually distinctive and stylish. Best ones in the 40's and 50's. Some of my favorites include MURDER, MY SWEET; THE BIG SLEEP; THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE; LAURA; DOUBLE INDEMNITY; MALTESE FALCON. It seemed to me that it worked better in black and white. These days many try to borrow from/pay tribute to this style, as in LA CONFIDENTIAL, etc. Check out TCM on cable, they play a lot of the classics.

Does that help?

Thanks, Chris. I did finally hear back from them tonight, they sound legit. It's so much easier when a competition has a website!

Hi John, I've got an example of weird judging for you--you've read my script, about Clara Schumann; well, one judge thought I ought to focus more on Robert Schumann's disfigured hand, and recommended I go the route of something like DR. STRANGELOVE!!!! While I admire the film, it is about as far from what I was doing in CLARA as JANE EYRE is from AUSTIN POWERS. Miriam

You know what, John, I honestly can't remember, I'd have to look through my stuff. I submitted to ASA also, and am waiting for word on the final round. Your story didn't exactly give me confidence! In fact, it may have been the first round of ASA, or it was the Wisconsin Screenwriter's Forum, or possible Santa Fe, which also gave comments. If I find it I'll let you know. My comments back on all these have been varied, and some reveal that the reader wasn't paying too much attention (like commenting that I brought up Clara's siblings late in the script, and we'd never seen them, when they in fact appear in the first 10 pages). I think it's all a crap shoot, frankly!

Miriam

Wow, the whole thing just gives babysitters a bad name, doesn't it!? And I thought having one who used the phone too much was a problem!

I suppose it is a dubious honor to get the first rejection letter. Sorry it didn't work out. I guess that means I'll get mine in the mail soon.

Thanks for the heads up, Brian.

Miriam

For anyone who didn't go to Santa Fe for the Screenwriting Conference, just to let you know it is FABULOUS and you should seriously consider it for next year.

Speakers included Chris Vogler (THE WRITER'S JOURNEY), Joan Tewkesbury (NASHVILLE), Chris DeVore (THE ELEPHANT MAN), Danny Rubin (GROUNDHOG DAY), Linda Seger and many more.

The attendees were just the most funny, smart, interesting, nice people you would ever care to meet, and the surroundings were beautiful.

And for those who DID go to Santa Fe . . . sniff . . . I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!

Let me know if you didn't get my email address, and let's keep in touch everyone!

Miriam

Hey Randy,

I am truly honored to be called a "mentor"!!! Thanks.

The truth is, I'm a rookie too. I have only been writing screenplays for a little over a year, and am working on my second one. I have had incredible response to my first screenplay, CLARA, (which, by the way, you can read on the AZ site if you're interested), but am still a beginner.

I'm happy to discuss any aspect of writing you like, though right now I'm trying to market CLARA and tend to be distracted by that.

Let me know if you want to chat further and we can exchange emails or whatever.

Thanks again for the promotion.

Miriam

Hey all, I know why I don't write in here some days; not only are there too many websites to cruise and chat rooms and scripts to read on AZ and all that stuff, but I'M BUSY WRITING AND REWRITING MY SCRIPT AND DOING THE LEGWORK TO SEE WHO'S PRODUCING WHAT!

Sorry, I didn't mean to shout. I'll post you a note, Randy, when I have a spare minute from all that writing. Meanwhile, get yourself on AZ if you're not already, and I'll get you into my "private room" for some discussion.

What was the other discussion? That Battlefield Earth is this year's TITANIC? Or something like that?

Miriam

Hey, Has anyone here done a "pitchmart" or otherwise brutal rapid pitching session? Any advice for a first-timer? Q.: Should you bring written synopses or any other handouts with you? Or just business card? Miriam

For all those kind, wise, patient mentors that I have met on AZ and Moviebytes, I truly thank you for your constructive criticism and thoughtful reviews.

We are all BEGINNERS at the beginning. It is wonderful when others take the time and effort to help us learn to better ourselves and find our voice, tell our stories in a way that will reach other people.

I hope when I am past these beginner hurdles that I can pass on the torch and help others struggle to become better writers.

It's a journey, not a race.

Miriam

Hey Doug, Sounds to me like you're on the right track. I like to write out a bio, and I put in whatever seems important to me. If how he/she dresses is important, in it goes. But more importantly, the inner feelings about life, him/herself that inform the major decisions in the story. I do character sketches like that on as many of the major characters as I see fit. As to speech patterns, I guess I let that develop as I write. Sometimes it isn't till a third or midway through that the characters start to "speak to me", I hear them in my head (usually while I'm trying to go to sleep--shut up, already!). Then they really take on a life of their own. If that doesn't happen, I know I've got to do more thinking about what makes that character tick. Miriam

Thanks, Ashley. Does this mean you have done one and lived to tell the tale?

Miriam

All of you, thanks so much for sharing your experience.

Eleanor, I'd be interested how you managed to pitch 8 scripts in a short period of time? Do you just basically belt out your loglines, or what is your approach? I was thinking of pitching two at once and the thought of it was daunting.

I think it is good advice to have something in writing, in case they want it, but not to foist it on them, as Ashley says.

Any other notes on preparing for this?

Again I really appreciate any and all advice on this subject. I'll let you know how it goes (early August).

Miriam

Hey All,

The one I'm going to is not the "Selling to Hollywood" one during that weekend, but part of the Hollywood Film Fest held THAT SAME WEEKEND, but it will only be during one afternoon, the 6th I believe, and we have to sign up for it a day or two ahead, first-come, first-served. I think you will just get one shot, judging by how short the time period is, and maybe be speaking to a room full of producers/agents. But I'm not certain. I will try to squeeze more details out of them before I go so I know what I'm getting myself into.

Randy,

You have started a very interesting discussion here. I think as writers we need to KNOW lots of stuff about our characters, in order to understand their motivation, and sense where we're going with them, but everything we know does not and cannot appear on the page.

The way I feel about it is that there should be "breathing room" in the dialogue, in the character's actions, in their arc as a whole, so that there is room for interpretation by the actor, director, etc. I visualize it as if the white space on the page is space for others to "fill in". I'm sure that sounds very esoteric, but it helps me.

I had the great privilege of participating in a public reading with excellent professional actors, and watched as they breathed incredible life into the characters I had "created". These characters, I began to see, had that breathing space, different ways to interpret and express their personalities, and the actors showed me things in my characters that surprised and amazed me. Hence the wonder of good casting.

In other words, a screenplay isn't a finished product, but a blueprint. If you nail every nail smooth, tighten every screw tight and leave no detail to the imagination, you have created a dead screenplay. A screenplay is not a novel, but the starting off point for a collaborative work.

Case in point: AMERICAN BEAUTY. I read the screenplay first and thought, "gee, this is a good read, a really tight, really interesting screenplay." Then I saw the movie. That movie, with its fabulous casting, excellent cinematography, direction, etc., packed an emotional wallop that the screenplay only hinted at. That's a good screenplay. It became a springboard for a work that was even better than the sum of its parts. That's what I would aspire to.

Miriam

McKee's STORY is certainly my favorite book on screenwriting, and I keep rereading it. And I've read a few.

Has anyone here dealt with this company? I have no reason to think ill of them; just checking them out.

Miriam

Yeah, it's pretty slick. Was just there.

Ashley, if you're hooked up over there, I'll invite you to my "private office" -- do you have a script listed now? I have one on the old site.

Miriam

Steve, That sounds about right. I went to his one day seminar at the Santa Fe conference and he was terrific. I think one of his interesting points was that these are not hard and fast rules, nor should they be treated as some kind of formula. You should be true to your story. That was just his call on how these elements are generally laid out. It may suit your story, for example, for the hero not to meet the mentor until right near the crisis point of act II. Or perhaps your hero doesn't refuse the call at all, but takes it up gladly.

If you look at the general structure, though, and how it makes sense within a three-act film, it generally works pretty nicely. I like to watch a movie or read a screenplay and see if there's some of that in there. It's a good way to bring depth and a feeling of story arc to your work, and draws on universal themes at the same time.

Miriam

Oh, Two things that struck me rereading your note-- The beginning of Act II might really coincide with crossing the threshold, and the Act III climax might be Seizing the Sword. But again, I don't think they are hard and fast "rules".

I've heard of that too, isn't it called "GIGANTIC"?

See you there!

The woman at this company, Vicki Clark, took my one-page synopsis and has been shopping that around to various unnamed "producers". She said one passed, one she hasn't heard from. Her emails are very short, she wouldn't name who has been looking at it. She hasn't even read the script.

What do you guys think?

I emailed her and asked that she tell me who she's showing it to, and who passed on it. I've been querying people and don't want to query someone who's already passed on it! I told her we need better communication, and that she needs to let me know if she wants to represent me or not, and what her strategy would be. And maybe she wants to read the whole script? Still waiting.

Miriam

Sun,

Was it the script you had up on AZ? I enjoyed that one. Good luck with it!

Miriam

Have you seen it lately, Steve?

It's going back and forth now. Someone sure sounds ticked off. Probably both sides. I wonder how the people at Hollywoodlitsales will deal with it. You think they'd remove contentious stuff like that, I don't know.

Miriam

Ron,

thanks for your response. The only thing that bothers me is that we have not made any kind of agreement, and she is showing my work to people (without telling me who) and possibly burning bridges for me without my knowing what she's done. I would like to know where my script has been so I don't query the same people and look like an idiot. I emailed her asking for better communication and have not heard back.

I don't live in L.A. either and have been doing a lot of email queries of prodco's with a fair amount of success. I would like someone representing me in L.A., but only if they will give full disclosure about where my script is, where it's been and where it's going.

Let me know if anything further develops, and I will do the same.

Miriam

Anyone dealt with these folks? They're in Germany. They read and liked my script CLARA, but instead of offering an option offered a management agreement, which was not exactly what I had in mind. I need an AGENT! and/or and ATTORNEY!

Handling all this marketing stuff takes so much time and energy away from actually WRITING.

Miriam

Thanks, John.

I've had other responses on the AZ site and via email, so I'm getting what I need, I think. I appreciate it.

Miriam

Las --

I'm glad you spoke up; I'd love more information if you could provide it. My email is miriam.queensen@gte.net if you have the time and inclination to give me more details. He certainly seems legit, I just can't figure out if this is the right deal for me now, and don't yet have an agent or anyone to advise.

Thanks, Miriam

Thanks for responding. I've sent you an email as well. I've heard some positive things about Gruenberg, I think I just need an attorney to go over the contract so I know what it all means.

I appreciate the feedback.

Miriam

A friend of mine made me stickers (like a skinny label) with the logline of the script I was trying to push at a conference, and I stuck those on the back of business cards, that way people I had met would remember something about the script.

Anyone have good advice, experiences, stories about proper dres, decorum, manner and what on earth to say at your first MEETING with someone at a studio?

Thanks, Miriam

Good luck, Cindy! Check back and let us know how it went, and what you learned.

Miriam

Hey, Ashley,

That's not a bad suggestion. Might be logistically difficult, though, since I'm arriving in L.A. just the day before a morning meeting and do not AT ALL know my way around. I would hate to be skulking around an hour early or something and have someone I'm meeting with spot me, then recognize me later! Maybe I'm not cut out for espionage . . .

Miriam

Wow, Joel,

It sure sounds weird. Those titles and loglines sound like parodies. A COMEDY about Tallulah Bankhead???? It sounds like someone's getting pretty creative. Keep us posted.

Miriam

Has anyone submitted to this guy? He bills himself as an American producer based in France. He was interested in my script but has not responded to recent emails.

Miriam

Thanks, Joel!

You might want to consider entering the name of these guys in one of those warnings sites, there's "preditors and editors" [sic] and I think there's one on absolutewrite or something. Or at least post their names up on AZ or something. It's really unfortunate when things like that happen.

Miriam

So one would hope, Rafael.

But I also know that it's human nature for people to go with first impressions, and so looks can count. I think you are correct about simplicity, though. And those Hollywood types probably expect us writers to be a little goofy . . . or at least not in on the latest fashion trends.

Great advice, everyone!

I shall strive to be comfortable.

Miriam

That, or you could do the Sharon Stone thing from BASIC INSTINCT and really leave them with a lasting impression . . .

But seriously, I think I will do what I am comfortable with. Cindy was the blue jeans and t-shirt gal. I'm sure she looks terrific. I look better in a skirt, so that is what I shall do. We have to play to our strengths, and I look better a little dressed up than I do in too casual clothing. Plus, then I feel "special" and more confident. Now, as long as I don't trip coming in the door or start hiccuping violently, I think I'll be alright . . .

Not to interrupt, but have any of you seen the one called invitingly "Script Pimp?" It sounds like the same type of service. A flat fee of $100, they read and then "pimp" your script out. Great, we really want to make ourselves feel like prostitutes, don't we?

AMADEUS is good. IMMORTAL BELOVED is interesting but flawed. There's a bio of Josephine Baker that's good, it's on video but I don't remember the title. A STAR IS BORN is fictional but good. Try also LADY SINGS THE BLUES about Billie Holiday, BACKBEAT about the Beatles is a good one, also THE DOORS one is odd but interesting. GREAT BALLS OF FIRE was disappointing but fun if you like that era. I know I'll think of more, it's a favorite genre. If you want to chat about this topic, I have recently written a biopic and would love to chat about it. miriam.queensen@gte.net

Oh, and -- LA BAMBA, THE BUDDY HOLLY STORY, and CHAPLIN (very good, ok he's not a musician, but it's still good). And HILARY AND JACKIE about Jacqueline Du Pre.

Okay, I thought of some more:

WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT, about Ike and Tina Turner, and WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE about Frankie Lymon.

I suppose I could go look in my video hound . .. but it's more fun to try to remember them. There was an absolutely horrible one about Henry Purcell that was so boring . . .

Miriam

Oh, and of course there's FUNNY GIRL and FUNNY LADY, about Fanny Bryce . . . and STAR! about Gertrude Lawrence. There was a movie about the dancer Isadora Duncan, starring Vanessa Redgrave, that I quite liked, I could look up the title . . . this will keep me up all night. Of course THE GLENN MILLER STORY, which wasn't very good.

Ok, I'll stop now.

By the way, when I said A STAR IS BORN, I meant the Judy Garland one, not the remake.

I gather by "too old" you mean you don't want a period piece.

Don't neglect BACKBEAT, a quiet film about the early Beatles days which was quite good, more about the relationships between the fellas than anything else.

Good luck! If you don't see what you really want, it's probably because YOU have to write it!

Miriam

Your way seems more polite, but I think Ashley's right; anyone who doesn't want the email query will just hit "delete" either way, and you'll probably never hear from them. I've been just emailing with my logline, many have responded, many have not. But nobody ever seems to respond to say "we don't take email queries" . . .

Miriam

Good points. I think I've had about 30% either request the script or a couple who requested the one-page synopsis first (that was one option I gave in the query, and then cut and pasted rather than attached, as you say). But I also target who I'm sending to; I didn't send my period piece to companies who prefer horror flicks.

If I didn't have a contact name, I just wrote, Hello, and launched right in, instead of doing the "Dear Sir or Madam" thing. Email etiquette seems to be much less formal.

My email queries were EXTREMELY short; short logline one paragraph, awards next paragraph, then get out quick. Respecting people's time is important, since you're invading their computer.

Good luck,

Miriam

Wow, this guy's got WAY too much time on his hands! Gary, get in my private office and clue me in about the guy's aliases.

I can personally vouch for Mr. Milin's authenticity as a writer and all around good guy, having met him at the fun AZ get together in L.A. last week! Fear not, Gary is not some kind of weird corporate spy (and why would there be such a thing, exactly?) -- he's a regular joe, just like us, trying to write and get his foot in the door. And as for success with scriptshark, Gary, I hope it works out for you!

Miriam

Cindy,

I'm glad you had a positive experience as well. I had one meeting that sounds like yours, with people who already liked my script, then I had a pitch session at the Hollywood Film Fest which was entirely NOT like that -- you are pitching to people who don't know you from adam and some of them look like they would rather be anywhere else. That's a harder sell altogether, especially when they shove you out after your five minutes are up! That's like some kind of writer cattle call, we really felt like we were on a conveyer belt going through an assembly line. Still, some people were very gracious and interested. Some were bored, and it showed.

Still, a learning experience all around. It was not nearly as horrible as I thought it would be.

Miriam

Scripts that I've read and admired:

CIDER HOUSE RULES AMERICAN BEAUTY SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE THELMA AND LOUISE SENSE AND SENSIBILITY SHINE THE LITTLE PRINCESS GET SHORTY

Dear Randy,

I only think we should retitle the thread: "How Nice Can People Be To Someone They Barely Know?"

I tell you folks, the help I've gotten from friends through the internet (here and Zoetrope), especially from Randy, dispels any notions of this business as cutthroat. Maybe agents and producers are cutthroat, I don't know, but screenwriters have got to be the nicest people I have ever gotten to know!

That said, the entertainment attorney was great, he said he would submit my scripts to a few agents he knows, free of charge! He also dispensed good advice and information, and help with a book I'm trying to option.

I also have an agent interested, someone a friend here at home referred me to, and possibly a manager, referred by someone on Zoetrope (thanks, Jeff!)

Samuel Goldwyn is sending my script up to the next level of readers, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. A period piece is a hard sell.

I also have a few other prodcos interested in reading it, via the pitches I did at the Pitchmart (Hollywood Film Fest) and am waiting for word from everyone about the next step.

Above all, I had fun, and it wasn't as intimidating as I had feared. That was partly due to the fact that I had friends like Randy backing me up and helping along the way.

Thanks a ton, Randy -- I'll keep you posted!

Miriam

Wow, Alice!

I thought I had them all, but you had a couple on there I didn't know. I'll have to print this out! I'll compare it to my bookmarks and see if I have any to add that you haven't mentioned.

Miriam

Hey Todd,

I'm sorry that you've had some experiences that leave you feeling that way. I'm sure that's true for many people, and it's unfortunate.

For me, at this stage of the game, when I have yet to make any money writing yet anyhow (besides some journalism), I don't have anything to lose. I haven't, as they say, quit my day job yet.

Since I have only begun marketing one script, I had much better results than I expected. I started out with very low expectations, especially after all the stories I've heard. So everything I've accomplished feels like gravy to me.

And the best gravy of all has been the great connections I've made with other people, like Randy, that I hope will stand the test of time -- both the good and the bad.

Miriam

I am friends with someone who is a reader for Inzide. They are definitely legit. They turned me down, but if they'd asked, I certainly would have sent in to them! Good luck.

Miriam

Way to go! Let us know how many option offers you get!

Miriam

To be fair, at least in my case, I queried Mic Murphy at Energy, they requested a script, which I sent, and a number of weeks thereafter I received an email turning me down. So, although they rejected me, they were at least in my case timely about the reading.

Why are they taking longer with some? Maybe it's easier to reject quickly than to decide what to do with the "maybe" or "this seems pretty good" scripts? Maybe they're trying to figure out who to sell it to? I don't know. Trying to put a positive spin on it for ya.

Keep bugging them, email, snail, calls, till you get a response one way or the other. Good luck.

Miriam

I've heard of agencies taking months to respond. I've also heard of agencies not responding at all if they're not interested, even if you have enclosed an SASE or postcard. I have certainly had agencies not respond at all. If they are interested, they WILL call or email or something. It's frustrating and irritating. You might try calling or emailing for follow up, some agencies will hate that and think you are a pest. On the other hand, it may show your level of dedication. And, what have you got to lose?

Another thought; if there's anyway you can personalize your queries rather than "spamming", by finding out who that agent represents, or what sales they have made of projects that may be similar to yours, that is said to help. Try keeping track of sales on hollywoodlitsales' Daily Spec Sales and Spec Sales Directory, or Moviebytes "Who's Buying What", or the trades such as Hollywood Reporter, Variety, etc. Might be worth the extra work if you can make your query stand out from the crowd. Or if you can go to a conference and meet someone in person, or get a referral from an entertainment attorney or another writer friend -- hard to come by for most of us.

Good luck, I'm still working it too --

Miriam

I don't think it's that odd. Keep in mind it's also summer, when many folks are on vacation. It's possible some of them may still contact you, though it's also possible they won't. That's not very helpful of me, is it? But if you think of it from their point of view, how many letters and scripts must come through their doors, and how few hours there are in a day, it makes sense they might take a long time or just not respond if they're not interested. It's unfortunate, though. A friend of mine calls it "Just one more method to torture the writer".

I hope you fare better soon.

Miriam

How'd you like to be a reader for this one?

Cassandra,

If anything, you were in good company. I got rejected by them today as well. Maybe they're cleaning house?

Miriam

If it was a public figure, where there is lots of material available about that person, it is probably okay. If there are court records, or biographies that have been out there (I believe it's 50 years since the death of the author, it's recently been extended to 70 or something), letters, etc., stuff in the public domain, like for a president or whatever, it's going to be fine. A couple of good sources for you on the legal issues are THE WRITER GOT SCREWED (BUT DIDN'T HAVE TO) by Brooke Wharton, or THE SCREENWRITER'S LEGAL GUIDE. Or, of course, you could consult an attorney.

Good luck!

Miriam

I would like to add, on behalf of the "aspiring writers", that most of us are simply asking for common courtesy.

We pour our hearts into our work, and try as hard as we can to break into this difficult business (where we need a deal to get an agent, and an agent to get a deal), and we simply want to be treated with respect.

If we follow proper format and procedure when we submit material, which producers claim they need, we would merely like to be notified whether our material is accepted or rejected. And within a reasonable amount of time, so we can "get on with our lives". I don't think that's too much to ask.

A simple "I'm sorry, we haven't gotten to your script yet" or "Sorry, we can't use your material" is not so hard to zap into an email, call or short letter. The amount of rejection and frustration that all of us --even the successful writers-- put up with is staggering.

Although I know there are lousy, wannabe writers out there who you feel are sucking up your valuable time by sending you garbage, most of us work hard at our craft, and many have had success and positive reads elsewhere in this subjective business. What you reject today could be Steve Spielberg's pet project tomorrow; today's nobody could be tomorrow's hot new Hollywood writing discovery. Why treat people like they don't count just because they don't have a famous name (yet)? Simple courtesy and politeness all around would make the world a better place for everyone.

Miriam

Cassandra,

You have FIVE children? And you manage to write also? That is astounding and amazing. I have two and they just about suck the living daylights out of me. Writing is my refuge, but the time to do it is hard won. I think you deserve a medal. Check my profile for my email if you want to chat on a more personal level; I'd love to know how you manage it.

Miriam

Hey John D,

Clearly you haven't been following the Energy Entertainment threads.

Pretty funny, Sondra. I would love to hear from someone who's really benefited from Energy, to be fair. They're trying pretty hard to be noticed and to get as many scripts as they can -- if they get some writer's career jump started, more power to them.

Miriam

Hey Randy,

Sometimes it's good to break those habits for a while. It is possible to live without email. Have a great vacation! I hope I'll have some news for you when you get back.

Miriam

Congratulations! Do keep us posted as to your progress--

Miriam

When I emailed them, they said they would notify about the first round in late August/early September. How's that for vague?

Here's hoping . . .

Miriam

My understanding is that the top four contests, as far as prestige in the industry, are: Nicholl Fellowships, Austin Heart of Film, Disney Fellowship, and Chesterfield Fellowship. In that order.

Runner ups are tough to call; might be Cinestory, Scriptapalooza, Hollywood Screenplay Discovery Awards, maybe Big Australian?

Any other opinions?

Miriam

Then you're buying at Cat and the Fiddle, Gary!

Keep us posted!

Miriam

I hear really mixed things about Slamdance. What about Sundance?

That's okay, Doug, I'm used to it.

I'll go to Austin if I do well in the competition. Hard to justify the $$ otherwise.

Good luck to you.

Miriam

Thanks, Steven,

For being the voice of reason. I think mutual courtesy all around, the high road, should be our ideal. After all, when production companies, management companies and agencies go fishing on the internet for writers, I would assume that to some extent they need us, as much as we need them. Most writers follow the rules and try to get their material read according to proper protocol. Whether their material is excellent or poor is beside the point. If prodco's and the like who are fishing on the internet expect every piece of writing coming in via these websites to be superb, they are probably kidding themselves. That is no reason not to treat every submitting writer with respect, however. Sometimes a prodco. takes a long time to respond, and then says "yes", so length of time is not necessarily an indication of a "pass", since some prodco's or agencies are more backlogged than others.

Many of those posting on this site are national award-winners, excellent writers who are on the verge of that first big break; there's no need for any of us to go around insulting each other. Often whether a prodco says yes or no has more to do with the proper fit between that company and the type of material involved. As we all know, this takes lots and lots of submissions, and tons of waiting and rejection. Let's not make it harder on ourselves and each other by being unpleasant.

Miriam

Wow, that's really appalling. Considering the time, money, energy and hope we invest in these competitions, I would hope that SOMEONE is reading them. Wow, if they don't have the time to read, they should just ask for the first 20-30 pages for the first round, like ASA or some others do.

I hope that this is not true every time, or across the board.

Miriam

At least they don't charge $50-100 the way some other competitions do -- perhaps it's time we formed a screenwriting competition entrants union? Go on strike and demonstrate against any competition that charges more than $35?

Of course it just shows how badly we want someone to notice our work . . .

Miriam

Gregorian chants?

Please keep us posted on this one.

From my point of view, the name itself is a bit of a turn off . . .

Miriam

Hi,

Yes, I got one. It sounds interesting; I don't know if he got names off of here or zoetrope or where. I'd like to know more. I emailed the guy and haven't heard back yet.

Miriam

For competitions this year I probably spent over $500, especially if you factor in copying and postage costs. I also subscribed to Hollywood Creative Directory online, which was I think $119. I'm also a member of the Screenwriters' Workshop in Mpls., which costs membership dues plus meeting fees, well worth it, I might add. All in all, $1,000 sounds about right.

Hey I got an email from the guy today. It's totally legit, not asking for money. Check out the story in Variety, I think it's www.variety.com called "Flixer in the Mixer". Could be cool. He said he got my name off Hollywoodlitsales (one of my other hangouts besides here and zoetrope). I'm sure he'll get back to you too.

Miriam

Thanks, Greg,

For putting things in perspective for us. It is always surprising to me the stories I hear about poor scripts being entered in contests. I go out of my way to do the best job I can, format correctly, check and recheck, have everything read by every person (especially writers) that I can. I'm sure many of the folks here do the same. In this era of spell check and script consultants, there is no excuse for submitting things of such poor quality. It's certainly a waste of the entrant's money, as well as a waste of the readers' time.

Miriam

So I'm learning. They turned down my logline. Others have liked my script, so I am not disheartened. Getting your stuff out there is the name of the game, until you find someone who reads it and goes, "wow, this is good, I think I can get a deal for you." And believe me, fairy tales could come true, it could happen to you -- I've found someone who really likes my script. Keep trying, folks, and keep working on your craft.

Miriam

Robert,

I believe they notify you either way. I have a friend who hasn't heard, I haven't heard, and one other friend got a rejection. I don't know if I would jump to the conclusion that since I haven't heard it's a good thing, but it is odd that rejections are popping up first. Just hang tight, they probably had thousands of letters of both kinds to get out and it's just going to take a while.

Miriam

Thanks, Todd,

I have heard good things about you folks. The script I was marketing heavily has to be kept under wraps right now while it gets a read, but the next one I may post when it's ready to go. I'll certainly check you guys out.

Miriam

Hi Rafael!

How are ya? I'll email in a day or two, I may have some news.

Thanks for the education, by the way. So what do you say when you are doing this sound stuff? "Walla walla?" "Peas and Beans?" the Gettysburg Address?

Miriam

Alice,

Usually I have no problem with my script being at more than one prodco., but in this case the producer specifically requested that I don't send it around at the moment while he waits for a read -- so I promised I wouldn't. I think unless you have some kind of exclusive agreement you can shop your stuff around. Judging by how long everyone takes, it's just as well that I've done that or I'd be 100 before I got responses from everyone.

And yes, I'm on the website and got a nice certificate.

Thanks about the photos. I'm a lazy bum and haven't done mine yet.

Miriam

Congrats on getting an agent, D.G.!!!

Go, man, go!

Miriam

Well, John,

I think you're right to some extent. There are tons of them out there, and so many people trying to break in this way. Even placing highly in some of them is no guarantee that anyone will notice you. Producers and agents have too much to do already without spending lots of time scouring the web for contest results. Where it can help you is if you remain proactive, don't expect people to beat down your door, but choose your most prestigious wins or placements and use those in your query letters, applications and phone calls, emails, whatever. This, I think, has opened a few doors for me and gotten me some reads where maybe I wouldn't have gotten them without a placement. It can distinguish you from the crowd. But definitely, some contests are most highly regarded by the industry than others, and the higher the placement of course the better. That said, you still have to get out there and toot your own horn. Hopefully soon I'll have some concrete results to show for all the hard work it takes to get people just to NOTICE you.

Good luck, but above all, DO WHAT YOU LOVE. If you don't love it, there's no point.

Miriam

Finally heard from them today. Made the first cut, but will go no further. Hope y'all fare better.

Miriam

Congrats, Colleen,

Yes, you're right about the subjectivity, though not to diminish your accomplishment; my results have also been very uneven. To some extent it's a numbers game, the more you get it out there, the better chance you have.

Miriam

It may only be a big deal when you can't get one, JJ. Kind of like money. Seems much less important when you have enough.

The truth is, though many agents and managers may not be able to do much for you, many producers simply won't read anything that doesn't come through someone else. I don't think you should expect your agent to do everything for you, but work together with them (in an ideal world, right?). I realize many of them simply don't have the time.

Miriam

D.G.,

You continue to astonish and amaze. Hey, I'll pv your screenplay, if you pv mine . . .

John,

Santa Fe won't be doing competitions again. They are doing a conference only this year :-( But a great conference! Go by all means! Miriam

Wow, well at least you got a note!

The semi-finalists get a big discount to the conference, which is why I was hoping to make it to the next level.

Robert, for your confusion, my letter said, basically, "you made it past the first round of judging, but not into the semi-finals" so I guess that's quarter-finals? With over 3,000 entries they've got to have a few elimination rounds. If you haven't heard yet (are you listening, Didi?), that's probably a good sign--you've either gotten as far as I have (first cut) or probably further, into the semi's like Colleen or higher. I'm sure you will get a letter or call soon. Good luck!

Miriam

Hey D.G.,

It must be fun to be you!

My screenplay du jour is CLARA, but is being renamed THE VIRTUOSA. How's that for confusing. But that's the one being marketed at the moment, and I have great faith in the power of the story. That's what got me to write it in the first place. I hadn't written any screenplays before, but when I decided to write CLARA I ran out and bought a computer and computer stand (which I put together by myself, quite a feat for me), sent off for software, read all the books I could find on screenwriting, and went to town! The rest is history. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

By the way, your title is EXCELLENT.

Miriam

I think that simultaneous submissions are par for the course, and unless you query a prodco. and they ask you for some kind of exclusive look, I wouldn't worry about it. Most prodco's take so long to process things that you'd be 100 before you finished querying one at a time.

Some entertainment attorneys will submit for you on the same basis as an agent, i.e., for a percentage rather than $$ up front. But I think that depends on the attorney. And you'd want one who preferably has contacts in the biz, though just going through her would be better than sending on your own.

As for agents, yeah, they are hard to get. You can query some, see how you do, but I have had better luck just querying prodco's directly.

Good luck.

Miriam

Or, if you're too shy to call, try email. They have been quick to respond to my questions in the past. Good luck!

Miriam

While I think this may be true of many contests, it's hard to believe it's true of some of them. If you look at the smaller contests, who receive fewer than 300 entries, or the ones who charge less than $40 for entry, it's hard to imagine them making very much money. I know for a fact that some competitions do pay their readers, as well as having other administrative costs such as copying, postage, as well as people power to handle the whole thing. So in the case of some of the smaller outfits at least, the numbers just don't add up for a big profit.

As for the conferences, again, some of them may turn a profit. But for the smaller, especially regional conferences, it's hard to imagine this would be true. Case in point: Santa Fe. This was a fabulous conference, reasonably priced, and well worth the dough. I know that the money they made could not have been excessive, and the expenses they put in were great. They paid top notch writers to come and lead intensive workshops, they had parties and the guest services were above and beyond what I expected for hospitality. They really went out of their way to make us feel welcome. They did it for the love of writing, and could not have made much (if anything) for their efforts.

Perhaps the answer is not to lump them all in the same category, but to look hard at what the costs are and what you get for your money and decide on a case by case basis.

Miriam

Jennifer,

I'm a little confused about what your question is. But I'll answer what I think the question is: is it just my script that's important, or my resume, or having stars attached, or anything else? Is that the question?

If so, I would have to say, in most cases, that the script being excellent, and being what they think they want, is paramount. I don't think your resume counts in most cases. That is different when you're applying for an artist grant or something where they specifically ask for your resume and they are looking at you as an artist. In most cases, in competitions or selling to prodco's, your script is your "product" and that is what you are selling. Sometimes, for a long term relationship with an agent, or a prodco who maybe wants to use you for rewrites, etc., they consider you as a whole package.

As for Sundance, I really don't know what it is they are looking for. If they've actually requested your script, they must have liked something, whether your logline or synopsis, or something else about your application. Don't knock it, keep going! Good luck.

Miriam

When I first started submitting I mainly liked contests that gave written feedback, because I was new and wanted to know how I was doing. Now I've done it long enough that I mainly like ones that don't take forever to notify, and that notify when they say they will. I also like contests that give SOMETHING to the runners-up, since getting that #1 spot is such a crap shoot.

Miriam

Colleen,

You're a Trekkie like me!!! I've had a dream of writing a spec script for VOYAGER; of course now that they're on the last season they probably don't need them anymore . . .

Miriam

But -- if you want to use the actual song in your movie, that's another question altogether . . .

Lois,

I'd love to see how you managed that! I was never that crazy about the Sherlock Holmes/holodeck thing, or whenever they get desperate and throw in a Western episode. I prefer grody aliens, or those episodes where crew are all over the ship fighting an intruder or solving a problem and you get to know lesser members of the crew better. Or when aliens take over people's bodies, those are fun.

Still, I applaud you for your efforts. Maybe there will be a chance with the new series? Or you could write a Star Trek movie?

Miriam

Let's not be black and white about this, Sang. I like both Star Trek and Star Wars. I have more nostalgia and personal feeling for Star Trek simply because I grew up watching it every day on tv! (And some things never change when you grow up.) I think Star Trek's culture, lingo and philosopy has permeated our culture in a way that Star Wars hasn't, just because of sheer air time and exposure to an entire generation. But I do like Star Wars a lot and hope the next prequel lives up to the hype!

Miriam

Okay, just to set the record straight. 1. The Beatles are WAY better than Elvis (although my fanatical husband collects them both, naturally, and has written a very funny novel about Elvis).

2. DR. NO and FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE. Pierce Brosnan is only as good as he is because he aspires to be like SEAN CONNERY. Don't even get me started on Roger Moore.

3. STAR WARS is fun, but Gene Roddenberry was a visionary.

Now, if that doesn't stir anything up . . .

Yeah, what was this thread about?

Miriam

Ditto what Sondra said. Find a writing group or class, or get on www.zoetrope.com and share with others. Keep improving it, then you may want to try sending it out into the cold harsh world; a screenwriting competition or something, to see how others apart from your circle of friends receive it.

Good luck.

Miriam

Other contests that provide feedback include American Screenwriter's Association and Wisconsin Screenwriters' Forum (and you don't have to be from Wisconsin).

Lynette,

I also recommend Robert McKee's STORY.

Remember this: a great work of art is never finished, it's just abandoned.

I don't know who said that, but I think it's true. And of course, with screenplays, it's not finished until it becomes something else--a film.

Miriam

Congrats to you, Sang, and to Steve Karels as well!

Miriam

That's too bad, Dan. Frankly, it's still amazing to me that they can do all they can on that site. But what I get out of it has nothing to do with posting screenplays, it's the camaraderie and sharing of information and forming friendships that happens in all the private offices. That's where I spend all my time. And I've gotten lots of leads, tips, suggestions, advice, and even swapped scripts privately with people through those means. For me, that's the real value, the people network.

Hope they iron out any other bugs eventually.

Miriam

Hey, Sang,

You are now officially invited! Sorry for the oversite! You too, Lois!

Miriam

Join the crowd; waiting, waiting, waiting . . .

Miriam

Colleen--

Any actor with a speaking part gets paid much more than someone who doesn't speak at all. If you can eliminate non-essential speaking roles (have the doorman tip his hat, leave out the "Good Morning, Mr. Smith" unless that's somehow crucial to your plot) and you will reduce your budget. If it's hard to do this, in some cases you can combine roles; have one person who speaks once deliver that other one-liner on the next page instead of giving it to a new guy.

Miriam

Another thought; instead of writing that letter yourself, if you can get an attorney to write the letter for you, as your "representative", this will look more professional and allay fears that everyone has about litigation. If you can't do that, at least make it clear you are prepared to sign a release form, etc. if they want to read your script.

Screenwriters' Workshop made me what I am today!

Miriam

P.S. Hi Jim!

John,

Glad Todd gave you an answer, because I'm guessing that a lot of us have never had your problem because it's so hard to get an agent in the first place! One thing I've heard from some people is not to expect your agent to do everything for you, but to work together with you finding and following up leads. Of course, returning phone calls would help, wouldn't it?

I've had a fair amount of success getting reads without an agent, and will be using an attorney to help with deals. I'm tired of trying to chase down agents, who are less accessible than producers.

Miriam

I would add my ever-repeated plug for Robert McKee's book STORY, which deals not with format questions but the underlying structure and meaning of your screenplay. Depth is what is missing from many many screenplays that I read.

Miriam

In light of the other "Fred" message, I felt compelled to write and thank you for your excellent website.

I have entered several contests over the course of the year, and done well in some of them. Choosing them was the hardest part, and your information, especially the fabulous "report card" section, helped me choose which ones to enter.

Due to my good fortune with a couple of the contests, I have managed to snag the attention of a few producers, and am on my way to an option.

More importantly, I have "met" people on this site who have been insightful and friendly, and helped me in ways I can't even begin to measure. For one, I found an entertainment attorney thanks to someone I met here (Thanks! You know who you are!).

Those of us who hang out here really appreciate the site.

Miriam

I've heard nothing but good things about these folks. They didn't want MY script, so they must be EXTREMELY discriminating. I'd send in if I were you.

Miriam

While some people obviously find it ponderous, STORY helped me make my script better, and I did indeed finish it. I did not slavishly follow every dictate that he suggested, but did think carefully about the issues he raised and used some of the techniques. My friends here are right when they say you have to find what is useful for you, which may change from time to time. Also try THE WRITER'S JOURNEY by Christopher Vogler.

Any book you read should be a vehicle for inspiring thought and questions, not for providing a paint-by-numbers approach.

Miriam

How is it that Randy Roberts can say anything he wants? It's in the constitution.

That said, I'm wondering what all the fuss is about. He simply said his needs are somewhat different from many of the writers on the site. True enough. Yet he has been helpful, insightful and a true friend to the writer, myself in particular!

Let it go already.

Miriam

Randy,

Glad you don't take it personally. But do try to avoid using the "liberal" label as a pejorative, if you don't mind. There are some awfully nice liberal people out there, and you never know when you might be friends with one of them ;-) I prefer not to generalize about people's race, religion, gender or political party affiliation. Or hair color.

Miriam

Well, and I'm a brunette too. At least I think that's what it said on the bottle . . .

Robert,

I have had very similar experiences this year. Or even three judges in one contest disagreeing; two loving the script, one hating it. So you do have to take it all with a grain of salt, realize the subjective nature of judging, and don't beat yourself up when you don't do well. Sometimes you don't even know where they get the readers to judge the first round. Judges are hard to find, and often don't get paid anything, or not much. So their motivation to read closely is not great.

Miriam

I checked the Hollywood Creative Directory online for you and they seem totally legit, they are in Van Nuys California, have credits, they do features, documentaries, etc. Let me know your email and we can chat if you need more info. Good luck to you.

Miriam

Nick,

I got a lovely form rejection letter from Nickelodeon, as did a friend of mine. Perhaps they are simply poorly organized? Not to excuse them . . .

We're all busy writing award-winning screenplays!

I didn't do the Greenlight thing, Colleen. By the way, congrats on making -- what was it, the top four? -- in Screenplayoff? They didn't like me. Hope you get some good recognition from that.

Miriam

Hey, Sang,

Do you have an entertainment attorney? You should get one, in your position. At the very least, check out some books on legal issues such as Brooke Wharton's THE WRITER GOT SCREWED or SCREENWRITER'S LEGAL GUIDE. But I think an attorney would be best. Sounds like things are cooking, keep me posted.

Miriam

Randy,

Hi, first of all. Do you know if, say you have signed a contract to write/rewrite before the strike deadline, are you considered scab if you decide to honor that contract by finishing rewrites after the strike has gone into effect? And do you believe the WGA would really keep track of who is working scab (as I think they claim they would)?

On the other side, I think the real reason for joining the WGA, which I hope to in the future should I be eligible, is a big picture issue. Obtaining proper payment, credit and acknowledgement of a writer's work on a film is something the WGA is still struggling to maintain, and writers are still considered at the bottom of the totem pole. Unless a large number of writers band together to use their clout en masse, there is little hope of changing a system where directors and producers run the show.

So, although I fear that my first project may be halted or interrupted due to this strike, and may have some difficult decisions to make, I would hate to subvert what I think are noble goals of the WGA; to elevate the status and real power of the writer in Hollywood. And that's a hard sell to start with.

Miriam

Sang,

Randy knows a really good guy. If an entertainment attorney brokers a deal for you, it will be much like how an agent takes a cut, but may depend on the details of the deal. Charging by the hour just for advice, however, may end up costing you more. In this day and age, when agents are so hard to get, and you usually need an attorney anyway, and producers are more accessible via the net and contests, etc., it seems that agents are less necessary.

Good luck.

Miriam

I think it's perfectly okay to make remakes and frequently can produce great stuff. MEET THE PARENTS is one example, which apparently was a forgotten low-budget film that never went anywhere. The difference is, someone went to the trouble to buy the rights so that it could be done legally.

And, by all accounts, I hear that the movie CHARLIE'S ANGELS is heads above the tv series (I haven't seen it yet). A rare occurrence, granted, but why not use nostalgia, as long as it's properly and legally used, and hopefully improves on the original? What I dislike more is the endless sequel for movies that weren't that great in the first place, or that get progressively worse as time goes one, but people still keep making them as long as the money's coming in. I'm sure we can all think of examples of that.

Miriam

I'd like to recommend the Santa Fe Screenwriting Conference to all of you; read my official review on the Scr(i)pt Magazine e-zine. Go to www.scriptmag.com and click "free e-zine". Let me know if you have other questions about the conference and I'll try to answer. For their site, go to www.SFeSc.com

Miriam

Hey Devilish Genius,

Don't take it too hard. I did hear from a number of others that Austin was slow to respond to them, even beyond the very late letter I got. And I have found that success in one competition is no guarantee of success in another. It depends SOOO much on what reader(s) you get.

But you are right, it would be nice to be a least treated courteously and responded too, given how much money and time we put into these things.

Speaking of late responses, has anyone heard from Disney?

Keep writing, D.G. YOU THE MAN!

Miriam

I agree with most of what preceded, I think . . . With one caveat. I was a judge for a regional competition first round this year, in which all they send in is 30 pages, and believe me, it's not that hard to tell from the first 30 pages what is worth looking at and what isn't. Judges for most competitions do it for no money, or very little, and it is often a thankless task. There's a lot of stuff floating around that is not well written, riddled with mistakes, clearly far from the bar for the "first cut." In some cases, I would argue that 10 pages would be sufficient, because that is often more than your average Hollywood reader or agent will give you to impress them. Though I certainly read with great care the 30 page samples given me, if I had to read 100 of them a week I wouldn't read past 10 unless I believed there was something really going for them.

The lesson to be learned here is, make that first 10 pages (and last 10, where they frequently flip to) really count!

And I made the first cut off in Austin, with that and $40 I could: Buy D.G. a couple of Deskjet ink cartridges or take a chance and post on SToryxchange, then go out to lunch.

Better luck next time, D.G.

Miriam

The conventional wisdom I have always heard on this one is to limit yourself to one logline per query. I think the rationale behind this is that you are so aptly targeting this fine product to this particular prodco. and/or agent that no other script would do. I would use the best example of your work, and/or the one best suited to your target. Then, if they bite (particularly the agents, who always say this) and ask "what else have you got?" you've got something up your sleeve to show them.

It does seem to waste postage. One solution: email queries. There are some agents and prodco's who will take them, it takes some research to ferret them out. But they're relatively quick and painless and I've had good success via the internet.

A place to start might be www.hollywoodlitsales.com where they list "Producers Seeking Material" and then you can query directly via email.

Good luck.

Miriam

Oh, plus--

Your queries should always be as short as humanly possible. These people hate to read. Get to the point and grab their attention in 1-3 short paragraphs. That's another argument against cramming too many loglines into one query. And I wouldn't send a synopsis unless they ask for one. Chances are they won't read it, either for time or for legal reasons.

The above suggestions are all good ones. You could start by just going to the WGA website where they list agents, and there are markers indicating who will look at new writers. Another source to check against is the book THE SCRIPT IS FINISHED, NOW WHAT DO I DO? by K. Callan, get the 2nd edition. Some of the info. might need checking to verify if it is up to date but there are descriptions of the agencies that I think are helpful.

I have had better luck with contacting prodco's directly. Agents say you shouldn't do that but prodco's are much more accessible than agents are these days and more visible on the internet.

Good luck.

Miriam

Production companies is a pretty generic term, I believe. Most of the ones that are willing to look at a new writer, or that are easily accessible, are the smaller or more start-up outfits. As for the biggies, you may be heading into the territory where we refer to studios rather than prodco's. Those are the ones you need an agent or other connections (usually) just to get a foot in the door. Check out the book by Carlos de Abreu, OPENING THE DOORS TO HOLLYWOOD, I think there was a pretty good discussion in there about the studios, development, etc., that helped demystify some of the process for me.

Miriam

J. Scott,

You have come to a good place for advice, since there are lots of people on here trying to do what you want to do. As for agents, I don't think lots of them have time to be reading these message boards, so this may not be an effective approach. Entering screenwriting contests may be a better one.

One piece of advice: learn how to write a really good logline. While your description sounds interesting, it is a bit vague; I can't really tell what the STORY is. The logline should be one or two sentences that tell us who the main character is, what they want, and what obstacles stand in their way. Agents and producers look at the logline to see if they want to read more. Lots of great screenwriting books and magazines give advice on writing a great logline--you'll want to use one whenever you try to sell that story.

Good luck.

Miriam

I think you write the stories that grab you, and those don't always fall neatly into a genre. Or the genres that you love to watch. My first was an historical drama/biopic. I love period films and plan to do more of them. My second is a cerebral thriller/mystery of sorts. My third looks to be a black comedy.

Steve, Live long and prosper! Did you see the Sci Fi miniseries of DUNE this week? I wish I could write some scifi someday. I'd love to rewrite the first two hours of that sucker -- it picked up after that, I thought. Cool worms.

Miriam

Well, they say misery loves company . . . shall we have a party and burn effigies of Mickey Mouse, Jim?

Miriam

Manny,

I do think often that comedies are not taken seriously (so to speak) and judges find it hard to evaluate them against dramas. As a writer of drama, I can't imagine anything harder than making someone laugh.

Randy,

Yes, DUNE was somewhat disappointing, though I haven't read the book, which probably helped. I did think there was some odd casting, especially the Paul character, who as you say was not very likeable, and William Hurt--when he was paralyzed by that weapon it was hard to tell the difference! Was he just going through the motions, or what? But again, I liked the effects and the worms. Way too much talking and exposition.

Miriam

Manny

one more thing. An exception is the Austin Heart of Film competition, which has a separate category for comedies.

Miriam

Colleen

Sorry I haven't been around or I would have put my two cents' worth in. Yes, as you apparently found out, with a public figure who has been dead for some time (and I think it needn't be 100 years, plus I don't believe he had any kids), it's a free for all. UNLESS you blatantly lift from a specific biography or other writing about that person that is not a matter of public record or in the public domain. I think Houdini's safe. (By the way, did you see FAIRY TALE? It had Houdini in it, played by Harvey Keitel)

With a contest like that, what I did was just type up a form saying, "this person has been deceased for ___ years and all of this information is available in the public record" or something like that for my "document". That seemed to suffice.

Miriam

I think Steven is correct, but I would add two things: since this prodco. is interested, maybe someone else (with more money) might be, and maybe you should give it some time before you settle for this deal? Also, be certain you have any contract with them looked over by an entertainment attorney. Good luck.

Miriam

Happy Holidays to one and all of my cyber-pals; don't know what I'd do without the chats with you folks and the az crowd!

Peace on earth good will to people.

Miriam

I make resolutions on about a monthly basis, Randy, but they seem to take on more weight on this particular day. They mostly involve exercise and losing weight (which I frequently do), or saving money (which I don't), and this year I WILL definitely have an option on my script. Here's to the power of positive thinking!

Happy New Year, all!

Miriam

Click on "Display all messages on this topic" (your own Energy Entertainment heading) and you will be reading more about them than you ever cared to know.

Miriam

Mark,

I would like to say that I thought your contest was well run and professional, and I would enter again. My script made the finals but not the top ten (unfortunately), but I do know someone who placed higher and undoubtedly deserved to do so. You've got great companies and agents lined up to read winning scripts, plus cash prizes, who could ask for more! I've entered many of these and I appreciated how your competition kept to its deadlines, etc. for notification.

Miriam

Codikow is the real deal. Smith is a management company, if that's what you want. Hollywood Creative Directory is one way to get info., but not everyone is listed there, especially if they are newer. International Movie Data Base (IMDB) is another place you can look on line to see if someone's really directed or produced anything. I would think a query service would have to know who they're sending to, if they're worth their salt. I've heard good things about Smart Girls, who are you using? I think there's nothing wrong with asking on boards like this, sometimes you get the inside scoop.

And frankly, with all the fear about your script "falling into the wrong hands", legit companies will find it cheaper to buy your script than to hire lawyers to defend against script stealing. If they're just a lousy production company, but legit, they probably won't succeed in getting your movie made anyhow.

Good luck, let us know how the query service works out for you. Do they just send out and track? Or help you write loglines, find good targets, also?

Miriam

FROZEN IN MN

Hey, at least some of you are in L.A.!!!

Try breaking into Hollywood from flyover land!

Actually, I would think you could do many of the same things I do, but your followup would be much better. I've entered competitions, networked all over the screenwriting sites, and am getting some very good reads. Zoetrope, Hollywoodlitsales, WritersScript Network, Story XChange, and here provide lots of opportunities that may be less intimidating at first.

Steve, I agree that everyone has to find their own way and no two people are going to do it the same way or for the same reasons.

I have found that my screenwriting skills have led me to other work; journalism, non-fiction writing and research, documentary film work. I am really just enjoying the fact that I am getting paid to write, even though I'm still waiting for the first big break with a screenplay. I feel like it all fits together for me.

Good luck, everyone, don't feel that your career path has to duplicate anyone else's.

Miriam

Bill,

This is a different event, though at least last year it was held on the same weekend. This is actually called the "Hollywood Film Conference", part of the "Hollywood Film Fest" put on by Carlos DeAbreu. Last year it was held at the Roosevelt, mostly, so I imagine this year it will be as well.

Donna Marie,

If it's at the Roosevelt, you could stay there. There are also a couple of Holiday Inn's nearby, one up the hill that's a bit of a hike, one down around a coupla blocks called a "Holiday Inn Express" which was close, that's where I stayed and I could walk to most events (I know, shocking to walk in L.A.). I can dig up details if you want.

The conference was pretty good; some interesting panels, and a pitchmart one day; are they doing that again this year? A good experience for pitching, a bit like a writer's cattle call, but nothing concrete came out of it. I did make a couple of contacts and met some interesting people. One of the highlights was the fancy dinner they had at the Bevery Hills Hilton which was like a poor man's Oscars, complete with big stars getting awards, the red carpet, we had to get dressed up and everything. A real trip.

I'd love to go again but don't know if it's realistic. Let me know if you're going . . .

Miriam

Hi Rafael,

You going back this year? What else is going on? Would you believe I'm still waiting, though I'm getting reads at places I always dreamed of? (email me for details)

Hope you are both well,

Miriam

Will you keep us posted on how many producers, agencies etc. seem to show interest in your site? I'd be curious to know in general, beyond just if anyone is interested in my script.

Miriam

Great point, and good luck to you--

I was just discussing this very issue with a friend who writes songs. What is the good of a high-powered, high-income job, if it leaves you totally sapped to do what you really love to do? Better to have that breathing space to nurture your creative self. Otherwise, what are you going to be creating? If anything?

Miriam

Wow, an average? What is the time equivalent of From Here to Eternity? Some of the ones on this site have never responded to me, I'm assuming it's cause they didn't want what I've got. In general, it varies so greatly I'm not sure it's fair to give you an idea. I've had responses within 24 hours to an email query. Another took months. I'm sure that's no help to you whatsoever. Waiting is part of this game, apparently. But I would say there is nothing wrong with trying a followup (especially to a prodco.) after a month has gone by, though they might choose to ignore that as well.

Then, if they request the script, you get to wait more months while they are supposedly reading it. Welcome to Hollywood.

And though I sound cynical, I do wish you luck. But find other stuff to do while you're waiting, it can drive you crazy, I speak from experience.

Miriam

Advice that was given to me was to start with your logline. So, to make one up:

Dear Mr. Muckity-Muck:

What happens when your chimpanzee decides to hack his way into the Pentagon security system and your ex-boyfriend is the only one who can stop him?

CHIMPS WHO ARE GEEKS won first place in the WEIRD SCREENPLAY competition, and was also a finalist in the HARD TO WIN competition. My vast experience as a computer hacker against terrorism in the Pentagon and a trained zoologist has given me the inside edge in writing this bizarre tale.

Please contact me if you would like to review a one-page synopsis or the entire script.

Yours,

Hopeful writer

Don't forget to give your full contact, or even an entertainment attorney's name if you have one, as your representative. Some people say to include an SASE, but in this age of email, I don't know that it is necessary.

Let me know via email if you want to talk treatments (MiriamQueensen@aol.com)

Good luck,

Miriam

I didn't read everyone's posts, so forgive me if I repeat someone else's ideas. I think just DAY or NIGHT should be used unless there is some vital reason that it happen right at DAWN or something.

As for slugs, I recommend mini slugs for small scene changes within a larger location. E.G.:

INT. JOHN'S HOUSE, LIVING ROOM - DAY

John rolls off the couch, jumps up and heads into the

KITCHEN

where he opens the frig.

That sort of thing. These types of format trends change constantly, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. I think you should tend toward what is simplest, but think about where the camera is, do we need to change location, and does it slow down the read the way you've got it?

Some screenwriting mags keep up on changes in trends for formatting, you might want to keep your eye out for articles that deal with that. You don't want to seem too out of the loop or too different from what is standard.

Miriam

Hey I thought that letter had been published in Scr(i)pt Magazine, John! It's so famous! How's the sale for CHIMPS going, anyway? I heard on Hollywoodlitsales that Adam Sandler was cast as the ex-boyfriend, is that true?

Miriam

I agree, Zoetrope rocks. It's www.zoetrope.com. You can post scripts, review others' scripts, hang out on the message boards, develop your own offices and private rooms to discuss issues with like-minded writers. I have met tons of great people on that site and gotten terrific advice, leads, etc. Some of us met in L.A. over the summer and it was obvious what a gold mine it is, so check it out.

If you or Trevor want an invite to my private office over there, give me a buzz via email. MiriamQueensen@aol.com. I've got some of the best folks dropping by my place.

I also recommend hanging out on Hollywoodlitsales, lots of good info. and interesting leads on "Producers Seeking Material".

I've heard nothing but good about both StoryXchange and Inzide.com, though I was heartlessly rejected by the latter.

Miriam

Hey Ken,

How are you? Hope you are well; I've seen your name up some contest lists and glad you're getting notice for your work.

Miriam

That's why I think you have to write what you really love, and try to make it as great as you think it can be. Even if you think you've got what it takes to sell something, they can change their minds, the exec turnover is crazy, yesterday's favorite flavor is passe today. If you love action flicks, write 'em. And keep looking for someone who appreciates you. Write first and foremost for yourself.

And good luck.

Miriam

Steven,

I, too, have had better luck with email queries, particularly when I am responding to someone who declares they are out looking for scripts. And that makes sense, if you are querying somebody out of the blue, they may not be looking. And Co's who are open and accessible via the internet and frequently open and accessible to new writers (or they wouldn't make themselves so darned open and accessible).

Good luck, people.

Miriam

Francine,

I felt bad that nobody was answering your question! I suspect it is because there is no easy answer to this one.

Most times, these places take forever. Most times, if they are not interested, they will not bother to contact you. There are some exceptions, I'm happy to report. It is worth, perhaps, one attempt at a follow-up. Maybe after a month-two months, a quick email might be best, or a call. Don't be surprised if they ignore you. This has happened to me, and then months later they wanted the script, then took forever to read it. I have also had my queries and scripts go down a black hole. If I can nudge via email, I do so. Otherwise I usually let it go. I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. Be patient, don't be pesty, and use your instincts.

Good luck.

Miriam

Good questions. I think a quality, well-written screenplay is good for a writing sample. It couldn't hurt if it was something youth-oriented that is similar to the types of things they produce, certainly. Technically, they do not require that you are a minority, but I think that they try to favor minorities. Check out the Moviebytes report card feature on Nickelodeon, there may be some useful comments there for you.

Miriam

Thanks for the laugh, Todd.

A good friend of mine sent in a script and although they passed, they gave him very detailed notes which he thought were well-written and insightful. It is a fair amount of money, but I understand that their connections are very good should they find your script worthy of their consideration.

Unfortunately, this is the reality of Hollywood; most of the time people are not going to like your stuff, no matter how good you or others think it is. The difference is, they bother to tell you why-- of course they charge you money to do so. Most producers, agents, etc. don't bother to respond at all if they are not interested.

Good luck, I'd take their comments seriously, but also realize that they are not the only sharks in the sea. Persistence and the ability to find the right reader for your script (plus of course sheer dumb luck) will get you somewhere.

Miriam

Hernany,

I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. Chalk it up to experience. Wait for the response (I've heard they're pretty quick), and even if it's a pass, be open-minded and listen to their notes, some of them may be of value to you. Free advice is easy to come by, but is not always worth anything. Hopefully these folks will tell you something you can use, and that's money in the bank.

Good luck.

Miriam

Zoetrope is a great site to hang out on. I don't even post scripts or have time to read any these days, but I spend a lot of time on the message boards and my "private office" over there and have made great friends, heard terrific advice, tips and leads. Some smart folks over there. And the support and feeling of community is invaluable.

Good luck Melanie.

Miriam

P.S. Buddy, I didn't know that there was a copyright on peer evaluation systems! But I do think you're right, as a means to evaluate scripts for a contest it has some serious flaws.

I would say, the ones I keep seeing over and over are (in this order): 1. teen market movies of any kind, 2. thrillers, 3. romantic comedies, and 4. action/adventure.

Many people say adult dramas are a very hard sell. Yet, those are the ones that do well in competitions, and frequently take the Academy Awards. From my experience, historical biography is tough!

Good luck.

Miriam

Hey, John,

With any luck mine is about to be optioned -- go check out my office on az for the lowdown.

Miriam

Very observant, Ashley! I was amazed that Danny DeVito was chomping on a carrot during the thing. Guess he's trying to lose weight? Quit smoking? Beef up on his vitamin A?

Joachin Phoenix and Russell Crowe were chomping on gum the whole time. I hate that, they looked like cows chewing their cud or something. Wonder where he stashed it before he gave his speech, under the seat?

And what is with all the folks clapping for themselves? I'm always amazed when I see that.

Miriam

High Concept usually means something commercially appealing that you can pitch successfully in one sentence; action movies are frequently characterized this way. JAWS. RAMBO. ROCKY. DIE HARD. CHARLIE'S ANGELS.

The opposite would be a character-driven piece with a smaller niche audience or no mass commercial appeal, like SENSE AND SENSIBILITY; MRS. BROWN; LITTLE VOICE.

I would hesitate to deal in anything but registered and/or copyrighted scripts or treatments in general, but I agree about Kosberg. He's known, liked, respected, and I've seen him speak, he's hilarious! I think if you're dealing with a known entity in the business who depends on having a good reputation, it's a different story. Worth asking these questions if you're unsure.

Miriam

Well, Kathy, that is the million dollar question, isn't it? That is what we all hope to do someday. And it's not easy, especially if you are far from Hollywood. This site and the screenwriting contests are a good place to start. Also try other screenwriting sites for tips and leads, such as www.hollywoodlitsales.com, and www.zoetrope.com. You need to get some feedback from the outside world before trying to market your script. Have you taken any classes or workshops, or entered any contests? That's one way to find out how your script stacks up against what's out there. Also read produced screenplays, and I'm sure you've checked out the multitude of books out there on the subject.

Good luck to you.

Miriam

Just FYI, almost everyone who reads these message boards has a screenplay for SALE, or perhaps a dozen. Most of us are entering contests, querying dozens of agents and prodco's, some even making trips to writing conferences, Hollywood pitchfests, trying to set up meeting, and investing lots of time, money and energy into getting our work out there. There are MANY people doing this. Some of us are meeting with success, after a long, hard effort, IF our screenplays are any good, and IF we can find the right venue for them.

Producers and agents are very busy people who are slogging through piles of scripts sent to them by agents, tons of queries, etc. I don't think they have time to browse through message boards looking for scripts.

You might want to try another approach.

Miriam

Steve,

I wish I had EVER had that kind of confidence! I still consider myself a newbie, on script #3...

Feel the fire . . . ooh, I like that!

Yes, I know what you mean about the passion.

Ahem.

But the overconfidence, or whatever it is, that makes people think they can just flash the script around to start a 6-figure bidding war, that kind of feeling I've never shared . . .

D.G.,

Where you been? Your office on Zoetrope is deserted, man! Needs dusting in there!

M

I thought it was Ohhhhmmmmm.....

Hey Steve, got any aspirin left for me?

Miriam

Yes, Steven, then they put out the Nitpicker's Guides!

If you're writing an historical film this could be useful. When I wrote CLARA I spent much time on the web checking facts. I found out when kerosene lamps were introduced, then gaslight in homes. I found out what a musket was versus a rifle. I found out the lineage of the Austrian royal family. I found out when there was a railroad between Leipzig and Dresden. Things like this can help you be more authoritative and accurate when you are writing history. I don't know that I'd PAY someone to do what I enjoy doing myself, but I do see some value in it.

On the other hand, if your STORY is good, as you say, the studios would probably do that kind of fact checking themselves before production . . . Still, I wanted my story to be as accurate as I could make it.

Miriam

Grover,

My husband (an attorney in MN) says yes, a lawyer in another state can negotiate a contract in CA.

As for boilerplate forms, check out these books: Brooke Wharton's THE WRITER GOT SCREWED, and Carlos de Abreu's OPENING THE DOORS TO HOLLYWOOD.

Good luck.

Miriam

There are some good postings on www.hollywoodlitsales.com under "Producers Seeking Material", I've gotten some good reads there and possibly my first deal, still waiting . . .

Miriam

I do too, Daphne. The other thing is, it never ends! After the contest thing, you wait to hear from producers or agents. Then the producer who liked your script has to sell it to somebody else. You wait. Then they have to get the ok from the studio/network/head honcho or whatever. You wait some more. It never seems to end. And it's hard to just forget about it, however much you try. The best thing for it is to keep busy and have as many things to wait for as possible!

Best of luck to you . . .

Miriam

I agree with most of the above, but I do think before you plunge into marketing your script should be as good as you can possibly get it. And that includes a clean format, good spelling, etc., which is not hard to achieve with some effort. Clean format just means you present yourself as a professional and don't give the reader an excuse to treat you as an amateur. Bad format or spelling/grammar errors might not destroy a great story, but it might distract the reader from seeing the great writing that is there under the surface. You don't want to give your reader an excuse to throw your script in the reject pile, especially not in the first 10 pp.!

If you can find a good group of peers to help you with feedback, you can save all that money. A writer's group in your area, a screenwriting class, or an online feedback group like on www.zoetrope.com can give you some of the same good feedback that you paid money for (which you could have spent on contest entry fees, postage for queries, Story XChange or whatever).

Marketing is all about figuring out who is most likely to be interested in your product. Research production companies on the net (like through Hollywood Creative Directory online, a good investment) and figure out who is making your kind of movies. Those are the people to send direct queries to. Learn how to write a great, pithy logline and an exciting synopsis -- find an ebuddy to swap these with if there's no one where you live.

Then send send send and sit back and wait wait wait (or write the next one).

Good luck to you.

Miriam

Way to go, congratulations to you! Hope it lives up to the movie in your head!

Miriam

Sometimes producers do this as a kind of litmus test to see who they are dealing with. I think it's perfectly fine to do a minor bit of rewriting, so long as you're comfortable with it (such as adding some lines to a scenes, etc.), to show that you are easy to work with and willing to take notes. I would NOT get into any kind of major rewriting without some kind of agreement. You'll want to make it clear to the what you are willing to do or not do. And if you want to stay exclusive with that producer during this process, put in writing the length of time you are giving them to shop the script around, etc. -- best to consult an entertainment attorney if you have questions. Or this might be a good time to shop for an agent.

Just be clear about your boundaries and LEAVE A PAPER TRAIL. If you're dealing in email, print them out. Or with phone calls, write a letter afterwards recapping what you understood your agreement to be, so it's on paper and clear.

These days, with so many of us wanting to get our feet in the door, it's not surprising that many are willing to do some rewriting for no pay. And considering how hard it is to get financial backing, producers are unwilling to invest too much money before they know what they've got. It's tough on all of us.

Good luck.

Miriam

I think what you want is a title.

For example.

The prince carries her off into the sunset.

TITLE: Cinderella tired of her prince and ran away with the footman the following year.

FADE TO BLACK

THE END

These are not always done over a freeze frame. They can be done over a black screen, over a moving image, whatever. It is not necessary to lay every detail of that out, a director may want some choice in how to do this. Unless of course it is pivotal to your story. I think titles can be informative, useful, and or funny. Think what MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL would be without them. And many historical/biopic type movies use them, since it's impossible to tell someone's entire life story in 120 minutes or less.

Good luck.

Miriam

Agents are hopefully not just signing the project, but signing you, the writer. So they want to know if you're a 'one-hit wonder' or not.

Best of luck to you!

Miriam

Hey Randy,

I've lost track of your email address, can you zap me at MiriamQueensen@aol.com? Just wanted to catch up with a bit of news . . .

Miriam

The confusion may be that there IS a McKnight fellowship competition in Minnesota (I'm from there), residents only.

Miriam

Sounds like what he wants is a little more than a one-page synopsis, and less than a full treatment. I'd stick with the 2-page, keep it short. You basically want to do what you would do in a good synopsis, perhaps with a little more detail? Lay out your setup, who is your protagonist, what do they want, and what obstacle(s) stands in their way? What are they willing to do to get their goal? I guess it's up to you if you want to tell if they succeed or not. I'd aim for letting the reader know if they succeed; but maybe hint as to how they manage it, or don't? Leave some mystery or something that makes them want to read the script.

This is a test of your writing skills, so spend some time on it and let a few people you trust read it for feedback.

Good luck!

Miriam

If you're really stuck, there's no rule that says you have to start at the beginning. If it's the end that's clear in your mind, start with that. Or that interesting scene that came to you, and you're not sure where it's going to go. Don't let a little thing like that stop you. Or if you find you are stuck, do some more ground work. Write character sketches, or a letter or journal from your characters' point of view. Make an outline of the plot -- I like to do mine on big pieces of paper so I can really see the structure. Or write a treatment, a shorter version of your main story, with no dialogue. Or you can do scene cards, index cards for each scene you're thinking of. Shuffle them and see what happens!

Good luck to you.

Miriam

Yeah, I usually know the ending first; that's the culmination, the goal, the point of the whole thing. The beginning comes around the same time. It's that pesky middle that's so damn difficult!

As to the other fella; maybe you should stick with writing shorts? They're very in these days.

Miriam

Please feel free to email me regarding the latter at MiriamQueensen@aol.com

Miriam

Fasten your seat belts, folks . . . and bring a good book. It's a long and bumpy ride. This waiting this is the hardest part about the biz. And you know what? It doesn't get any better. If someone likes you, you wait till their boss reads it. If they like you, you wait till the studio they're trying to get backing from reads it. If their reader likes it, you wait till the exec reads it. If they like you, you wait for others to read it and have umpteen meetings about it. And at any point along the way, someone could say "no." The higher up you get, the longer it seems to take. And I'm talking months, many many months. The only way to even pretend to get through it is to try try try to keep working on other things, and to have as many irons in the fire as you possibly can with different projects. That way you are at least a little distracted.

I know what you're feeling, I have been waiting for one thing or another for the last few years and it doesn't seem to get easier, I just keep trying to distract myself. And think positive, don't assume you won't get any yeses -- I believe in positive visualization. Picture the email saying "yes," or be ready for the phone call, but also don't let it destroy your work if you get a no. Move on to the next thing.

Good luck to you.

Miriam

Linda,

Yes, it's infuriating, isn't it? I think it's okay for you to check in with them re the status of your project, especially after such positive response. Are you working with an agent or attorney? It's even better if someone else can do the nudging for you. Happy to swap war stories . . . MiriamQueensen@aol.com

Good luck.

I agree, it's a good conference, I went last year after placing 2nd in their competition. The gala dinner is fun (a different slate of stars last year), but I think the pitchfest was the most useful. Nothing concrete from that, but made some contacts and had a good experience learning how to pitch under pressure.

Miriam

Good points made above, that's for sure. I think going straight to the prodco's has been my best bet, then I head for a good entertainment attorney to negotiate the deal. Why get an agent after the fact if you've already set it up yourself? That's just another 10% out the window. If you get something sold, then an agent might want you, to help you get assignments, etc. I think agenting is a hard business and I can't blame them for wanting to make money. At the same time, if they won't take a chance on new writers, why should we keep beating our heads against the wall trying to get their attention?

Regarding rewrites, I think to some degree they are a test. Prodco's will ask for them too. You have to decide when and if to do them, and how much to do. Each case is different. I would err on the side of doing just enough to show them you're flexible and willing to work with them, but that's it. They want to know you're not an egomaniac who will refuse to move a comma, and you want them to know that you're a good writer but not a doormat. It's a tough call sometimes.

Good luck.

Miriam

Good points, Steven, as usual. You forgot another possibility -- get an entertainment attorney to submit for you, some will do it.

I have had no trouble submitting to prodco's without an agent, and yes, I have to sign release forms.

Melvin, while technically you are correct, the problem is that the biz is flooded with screenwriters wannabees, many of whom have genuine talent, and they only make a small number of films per year. So it is not a seller's market. And film is a collaborative art. So while they shouldn't really ask for changes without buying, they often do. And if you are difficult about it they can decide to move on to someone who will be more accommodating. That's not to say you can't discuss the changes intelligently, and then say "I'll be happy to make these changes once our agreement is in place." And then if they really want you they will hopefully ante up.

As for agents, while technically they work for you they may not see it that way. They are flooded with queries, submissions and calls, and it gets harder and harder to sell material. So from their point of view, they want a sure thing. While it makes it harder for us, I'm not sure I can blame them entirely. So if an agent wanted me to prove I was capable of rewriting one scene, for example, on demand, I would probably do it. A page one rewrite, however, might not be something I'd be willing to do. I think there's a lot of gray area and it's not always in a writer's best interest to be entirely inflexible about this. The problem is, if you're inflexible, there may be ten writers out there willing to be more flexible.

It's a tough racket. Good luck.

Miriam

I am especially annoyed these days by how many older male stars, who were perhaps once reasonably attractive, are paired with women young enough to be their daughters or granddaughters, and we are supposed to buy the mutual attraction. I feel it detracts from otherwise good movies, such as AS GOOD AS IT GETS, THE HORSE WHISPERER, ENTRAPMENT, and of course anything made by Woody Allen during the last ten years or so . . .

And yes, I notice continuity errors too, and dropped subplots . . .

Miriam

Well, I for one wouldn't say no to Harrison Ford . . .

BUT . . . the problem really is, as was already pointed out, that not enough older actresses are getting work. And some of them are wonderfully attractive and sexy at any age. Look at Rene Russo in THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR. That was good casting. The truth is, not nearly as many young, good-looking women are willing to go with paunchy old guys as Hollywood would like us to believe . . . or perhaps as the old guys would like to believe. Let's give the beautiful actresses in their 40's and beyond some work!

Miriam

p.s. here's a bona fide pet peeve: repeating one word or phrase too many times in one movie. How many times did they say "hurry!" in the movie TWISTER?

Wow, I sure opened up a can of worms, didn't I?

Back to the movies. What is unrealistic is how the love interest is portrayed in these films. Take AS GOOD AS IT GETS. In that film we are supposed to believe that Helen Hunt is attracted to Jack Nicholson because of his incredible personal charisma and not on account of power, money, etc. And that she falls in love with him. I'm not talking about realism, here, like that fact that a certain segment of women in our society (who are not representative of the norm, here in flyover land especially) who are drawn only to power and money. In these movies we are expected to believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones finds the aging Sean Connery irresistable (ENTRAPMENT). We are not being fed a story line about an Anna Nicole Smith type in these movies, we are being fed true love between this young woman and this guy old enough to be her grandpa. And while there may be cases where this really happens and is wonderful (as perhaps in Zeta-Jones' real life?), it is simply way overrepresented in film. That is all I am saying.

So relax, everyone. And let's stop over generalizing, shall we? Ashley, you are write that only recently have women really started living lives of self-sufficiency. But they have been talking about it for over a hundred years, since one woman started speaking on the importance of financial independence for women. Her name? Susan B. Anthony.

And re dreadful remakes and tv-based movies -- when are they going to stop turning skits from SNL into feature films?????? I'm waiting for the next wave of nostalgia: finding ways to make commercials from the 60's and 70's into movies. They've almost run out of cartoons and sitcoms.

Miriam

Oops, Ashley, I mean you are right. And you can quote me on that.

I guess I just don't know any of them. All the women I know are married to men who are close to their own ages. I like guys who are a LITTLE older. My husband is 7 years older than I am, which suits us just fine. But I don't think I could be interested in a man my father's age -- just too weird for me! Maybe we need some statistics here. Where's the Annual Report of the National Bureau of May-December relationships when you need it?

Miriam

Interesting discussion, everyone. I think one point Greg made that is especially relevant is that many of the non-placing scripts get produced. And many of the winning scripts do not. I don't think that the conclusion here is that the judging process is horribly flawed (though they did pass on my script, which has had two offers and is now in negotiation to be optioned), but rather that the whole process of producing films has nothing to do with the process of selection in a contest. What a producer looks for may be very specific, idiosyncratic to that producer, and may target a particular audience. It may be a great vehicle for a certain star, or something one director always wanted to try. All of these things, plus budget, location and studio connections, amongst many other variables, go into decisions regarding choosing scripts. These are not the same criteria used by readers doing contest judging. I was a judge in a contest this year, and I focused on quality of writing. If you had asked me which film I'd rather go to, or producer if I were a producer, my judging would not have been exactly the same.

Greg's other point is that very few films are actually produced, especially when you compare that number to the number of screenplays written, entered in contests, registered with the WGA or whatever statistic you choose. It just isn't possible to produce everything written -- it's much easier to write a screenplay than to make a film, which requires so many people, resources, money, etc. You would like to think, in an ideal world, that only the "best" screenplays become films. We know this is not true. All we can do, if we love what we're doing, is to keep on doing it and learn as much as we can as we go along.

Miriam

Hey guys, be on the lookout for my buddy Rob Blankenhorn, he's great to know and chat with. His script was I think 4th in the contest there this year, and he's won it in the past. Brown hair, I think he's still got a moustache, nice looking guy, very talkative and cheerful. Randy, I hope to be there next year, I had a blast last year. Glad you could make good use of the pass.

Miriam

Thanks for the heads up; I was just about to send them a script, maybe I'll reconsider . . .

Miriam

THE PLAYER was great, but not the ONLY good film about Hollywood. How about SULLIVAN'S TRAVELS? SINGING IN THE RAIN? Or THE MUSE? Hollywood is at its best when it can make fun of itself.

Miriam

Back to the original discussion; Nora Ephron wrote WHEN HARRY MET SALLY, not Billy Crystal. Though he was very funny acting in it.

Miriam

P.S. Billy Crystal did not write ANALYZE THIS either. He did write: FORGET PARIS, MY GIANT, CITY SLICKERS II, MR. SATURDAY NIGHT and of course AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS. I think he's a great comic actor, I enjoy his standup, but the best movies he's been in are not the ones he has written himself.

Miriam

Good questions. Also, keep in mind that this is a management company, not a literary agency. The rules are different for managers, I believe. They are not licensed, and typically take a larger cut, as I understand it. Anyone else have ideas about this copying fee business? I figure if they really believe that you are a marketable writer and want to back you, and they succeed in getting your career off the ground, with the sale of only one script they could make thousands of dollars, thus making the paltry copying fee seem a little petty. ON the other hand, they may have to put a great deal of time and energy into getting you started, with overhead costs and no returns for some time. Hmmmm. . .

Miriam

I agree with the last two. It's all about getting read. A friend quarter finalled in the Nicholl a few years ago and had all sorts of calls from producers afterwards. What other competition gets that kind of notion for the runners-up? That alone is worth the entry fee.

I think it's very very important that screenwriters READ screenplays. Read the movies that really get produced, and take a good hard look at what you've written. Get into a writing group where you can get feedback. I know we all want to believe we've written the next great movie, but screenplays are very complex, difficult animals. Keep improving, keep learning, and keep READING. Good luck.

Miriam

Good points and well worth looking into, everyone. I have heard from another source on a board that copying fees are not unusual. Whether we want to pay them is another question.

My understanding is that management companies, unlike agencies, are not licensed, and are not supposed to be in the business of selling your material, though they sometimes do. Management companies are supposed to "manage" you and your career, help you get your stuff in the best shape to sell, provide advice, and help you get started. It is not unheard of for someone to have both a manager and an agent, they are not identical. Though then you are giving up more cuts in your script (don't forget your entertainment attorney!) Bottom line I guess is not to sign anything unless you're sure what you're getting for it.

Miriam

Now there's an image. Can I borrow that for my next screenplay? Perhaps use it for a James Bond spoof; the villain comes to a horrible end . . . quack quack!

Miriam

Scroll back up five or six to Daniel's posting, he put the phone number on there. You could also email them with questions if you get no answer via phone. I may do that as well before sending a script.

Grover,

I tried to email you but it came back to me. Email me at MiriamQueensen@aol.com.

Miriam

Todd??? Do you have something to say?

Miriam

Remember the original post -- Colin said they didn't mention the copying fee till they had read his script and wanted to sign him on. I asked another friend who is working with a reputable management firm and he said they've never asked him for such fees, and he called it "penny ante." He said they will be getting a %15 cut on sale of his script (%5 more than an agent would get). Let's face it folks, it doesn't inspire confidence. Colin, did you decide re signing?

Miriam

Sparks,

Thanks for sharing the 411. I think I'll save my postage and not send the script. Most of what I've heard here and over at Zoetrope makes me want to steer clear of them. Though management companies ARE a different thing from agencies, I still don't like the sound of it. If anyone has any different experience with them, do let us know. But I wouldn't risk it.

Miriam

Ditto what John said. Agents are very busy people, besieged every moment with queries, and they don't have time to go searching through the internet to find people to represent; they're beating them off with a stick. So check out the WGA list and polish up a good, short but brilliant query letter.

Good luck.

Miriam P.S. If you have Hollywood talent attached, ask them for an agent referral.

I agree Ashley, many of these kinds of mistakes are rampant in print, I think largely because spell check cannot catch them! Many have become too reliant on spell check. The misunderstanding of its vs. it's is probably one of the most common that I notice.

Another one: stationery (that you write on) vs. stationary (standing still). And the use of "perverse" (which really means stubborn) when people mean "perverted" (you know, twisted, sick).

Most of us can't remember back to 6th grade too well and perhaps need a refresher course. I think it's okay for the general public to be somewhat sloppy, but for those of us calling ourselves writers, I should hope we'd make a greater effort.

Miriam

Steve,

I am not surprised. I think it is one of those many cases in the evolution of a language when common usage turns it into "proper" usage. My dictionary has it as "obstinately persisting in an error or fault; wrongly self-willed or stubborn; marked by a disposition to oppose and contradict; peevish, cranky. Your definition is about what I find when I look up "perverted."

While it may be perverse of me to insist on the original usage of perverse, I don't think it is perverted to discuss the interesting deviations in perverted vs. perverse.

Anyhow, you may want to know the difference, so that if you're reading, say, Jane Austen, you know that the characters are not often going around calling each other sexual deviants. Although who knows, maybe that's the subtext . . . Gosh it is getting late . . .

Miriam

Ashley,

I actually do find the subject very interesting, and Steve, of course you're right that you should write in keeping with your time period, good point. I've done some work for Oxford Univ. Press on a specialized dictionary and have a good friend who does etymologies, it's really pretty fascinating for those of us who love words.

P.S. Did you see on Hollywoodlitsales that there are two spec scripts sold relating to the heart-pounding world of competitive Scrabble???? What's the movie climax, a triple word score using all seven tiles, beginning with a "z"?

Miriam

Thanks for your clarity, Daphne, I think this is very helpful.

Miriam

Also, it's important to talk to an entertainment lawyer, not just any lawyer, so you know what is standard in the industry. Lawyers specialize just as much as doctors do, and you wouldn't go to an obstetrician for your heart murmur.

I agree that it's important to have a phone conversation with these people, if not meet face to face. A friend recently signed with a reputable management company after having extensive discussions on the phone, and especially after working out ideas about his scripts. The company has had specific ideas about improvements to his material and ways to better market his scripts before they will send them out. That's what I call taking an active approach. They have shown their interest in his work (reading three or four of his scripts FIRST), and an understanding of the marketplace.

Miriam

Congrats, Randy.

I think outlines are very important. I am visual, so I like to take a giant piece of paper and plot things out in a big way that I can see on paper. Then I sometimes also do scene cards, depends on the project. I think dealing with tv and the 7-act thing you really need to take that into account. But still, I might arrange your 7 acts into a familiar form -- perhaps continuing to think how these 7 acts work within the way we usually think 3-act structure. Where is the inciting incident, where are the climaxes? When do I resolve? And I would imagine you want to end each act with something to keep the viewer on the edge of their seats, you know, so they won't change the channel . . .

Good luck, Randy.

Miriam

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my impression that a synopsis is usually a one-page breakdown of your basic plot. Treatments are generally longer, and more detailed (see Robert McKee on treatments). To clarify with whoever is asking you for one, ask what length they want, and if they want all the secrets revealed (nothing held back about your resolution). Sometimes a synopsis can be used to entice your reader to want to read the whole thing, so you don't give everything away. But you need to reveal who your main character(s) is, what they want, what obstacles stand in their way, and (usually) if they get it or not. You can include act breakdowns, etc.

Good luck.

Miriam

Very interesting topic, Ashley, explains a lot about some of the calls I have to make. I always make an effort to engage the person in some pleasantries (even if I'm mad about a bill, cause I know it's not that person's fault), and get them to laugh about something, even just their muzak, before launching into my complaint. I always hear relief in their voices. I've worked ticket office lines, which is not as stressful, but I can imagine what you're talking about.

I also now understand why I'm stressed after a day of trying to finish a thought while my children constantly interrupt me for a glass of juice or something . . .

Miriam

Hey, I haven't even been on this thread yet and people are already quoting me! Ashley, stop borrowing my clothes, people are starting to mix us up.

Miriam

Melvin,

You are truly not alone, if that helps at all. For me, revising my (once thought to be perfect) masterpiece is like doing my own dental work. And I mean root canal. With no novacaine. I, too, like to just forget the finished piece and start something new. Which also, by the way, explains why I have two children . . .

Miriam

Ashley,

I've never worn a tee and jacket in my life, but I'll take that as a compliment. And I had to look up April Cornell on the internet, since I live in the no-woman's-land of fashion known as motherhood. I think I'll start borrowing your clothes . . .

Miriam

Answer: As long as it takes.

Ron, three weeks is nothing. Welcome to the waiting game. I've been doing this for a while now, and it doesn't get any easier. Give it another week or two, then put in a call or email to ask about the status of your script. Don't bug them so often that they want to put a restraining order on you. The bad news? If they like it, you'll have to wait more for someone higher up to read it. And so on. Distract yourself, if possible, by writing something else. I know it's not easy. Just do what I've done and tell your mother to stop asking you about it every single day.

Good luck.

Miriam

Add Tom Green and Drew Barrymore, then you'll really have a winner on your hands.

And don't forget the talking parrot.

some of us just don't have any money, there's the rub . . .

Good suggestions, all. Do you have any local "surplus stores"? We have one here in MN called AXE MAN which is great for finding weird things, pipes, plastic tubing, god knows what. Also of course Goodwill, charity thrift stores.

Good luck.

Miriam

I consider myself a writer, but for once, I can find no words.

I would start small, if your publisher is truly useless, and you don't want to pay big bucks for a publicist. Do you have a local community/neighborhood paper for starters? They are often hurting for material. Contact them, and maybe they have somebody who could review it. If not, come up with a name of a writer friend or associate who could do it for you. By the way, I do free lancing for community papers . . .

If it appears in a community paper, sometimes bigger papers will pick it up. Try also local radio or tv -- are there cable access shows looking for someone to interview in your area? Start small, it can lead to bigger things. How about your college, do they have an alumni magazine? Write to them or call. You can start a file of clippings with these small things and use it to your advantage later.

Good luck.

Miriam

Is it possible they were infected by that awful Nimda virus going around? Many websites have been affected.

That's true, but before people heard about it this one, unlike others, has infected websites too. My husband's firm has had their computer system knocked down by it before they knew what hit them.

I'll do a grammar and spelling check for you -- I'm a published writer and I've charged people much less for script doctoring than the Hollywood script services. Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you my resume . . .

Miriam

Even spell check on a computer is not without problems. Particularly for unusual/foreign words, and of course those pesky words that are so often misspelled -- how does your computer know if you meant their, there or they're; its or it's; then or than?

I agree with Steve; the human eye is best. Preferably someone besides yourself; if you know the script too well your eyes gloss over it too quickly.

Good luck.

Miriam

I'd have to agree with Steve here (what else is new?); I'm writing a script with some Chinese in it. My Chinese consists of about ten words, none of which apply. I'm not going to let that stop me! I'm doing just what Steve said, and assuming if it gets made that there will be a Chinese expert consulted to fill in the appropriate words. The shooting script is definitely a different animal.

Good luck to you.

Miriam

My favorite bizarre comment from a contest judge was one that compared my script about 19th century composers Robert and Clara Schumann to the film DR. STRANGELOVE. It was a stretch, to say the least.

Miriam

P.S. I also agree that -- while films about hijackings may be taboo for some time -- America's love for violent movies will remain unchanged.

P.S. I have also heard it said (from a reliable source) that many agents/producers don't like washers, it takes longer to undo the brads for copying purposes.

Would there be a way to poll them?

I'll do it for 80 cents a page.

Miriam

I had no idea I was opening up such a can of worms . . . mea culpa.

Some competitions, like Hollywood Screenplay Discovery and Austin, also give discounts or tuition to their conferences to those who win or place, which can be worth the trip if you make full use of those opportunities.

Miriam

Hey Patricia! Good going, that's not an easy feat. Which one did you send, the one with the cats? By the way my email address has changed, zap me sometime! MiriamQueensen@aol.com

Miriam

I have Deuce Talent $ Literary Agency, P.O. Box 747, Blythewood, SC 29016

Good luck.

Miriam

I received a request from a production company for a script listed on "Winning Scripts" this week, so I wanted to thank you for providing this service.

Miriam

This site, for one, under "writers wanted," and Hollywoodlitsales.com, under "producers seeking material". You also might want to get on the email list for writersscriptnetwork.

Start cruising the net under any screenwriting website and you will find many more ideas.

Good luck.

Miriam

When I saw your subject heading, I thought you WERE Ashley. In fact, maybe you are, and you're using Colleen's name as a cover. Come on, Ashley, what have you really done with Colleen? Or is there an empty pod in your basement?

Miriam

I agree that contest judging is very subjective. But if your script is good enough to place in at least one major contest, that's something to put in your query to producers and agents that will set you apart from the crowd. And you need any extra help you can get, together with a killer logline.

Persistence also pays off; keep querying and getting your stuff out there. If it's good enough you will eventually find a home for it. But it may take a great deal of time and effort to find that match.

Good luck, G!

Miriam

Only if he had a KILLER sense of humor. And your mention of a "freak bowling accident" definitely keeps you in the running . . .

I was happy to see your names on the latest email from Jerrol LeBaron, the WritersScriptNetwork Czar -- good luck with your projects, and please let us know when your scripts will air and on what cable access channels! Nice work, you two!!!

Miriam

I just want to add a note of support for Terry's attitude. I have met lots of writers on this site and Zoetrope who have been personally and professionally helpful to me, have shared tips and leads, and who I consider to be friends. I've had people email me when they hear about a post they think my work would be suited for, or sent me notes of congratulations on a success. What better way to foster our own network, since most of us don't live in L.A.??

While we may be screenwriter wannabees today, who knows which of us will be paid writers, producers, directors or execs in the future? And, I don't mean that making contacts with people means sucking up to folks who might help you down the road, it means building relationships. And positive relationships help you not just in the material sense in this business, but in the greater scheme of things -- call it karma or whatever you will, according to your beliefs. I believe in treating others the way I would like to be treated.

Miriam

Hi John, It's a long story, lots going on. I've lost track of your email address. Zap me and I'll give you the details ... MiriamQueensen@aol.com

Miriam

That song was Helen Reddy, not Ann Murray.

I think it depends upon how obscure the field is and what kind of error it is. And above all, are the characters and their motivations believable? My husband is an attorney, and he frequently laughs at movies that use the law incorrectly, but he often doesn't care, if he finds the story engaging and the characters interesting. Even "Legally Blonde," which was so far from reality anyone would catch it, was fun and clearly a farce, so he didn't care. I think character and story are more important than facts, unless you are writing a documentary.

Miriam

Sorry to make this go on longer, but I have to add something:

Agents are people. Producers are people. Managers are people.

This process is subjective. Sure, some experience will help an agent tell if a script is "good enough" to send out or not. But many agents also have their own agendas, pet peeves, ideas about what will sell or not sell. And that's normal.

I've had scripts read by agents who thought they were hard sells, or not quite good enough. One of them is now in the final stages of negotiation for an option. I found a producer without an agent's help this time, and am not sorry I did so. Not to say I wouldn't want to have an agent in the future, to help place future projects or procure writing assignments.

Agents are not infallible, nor are producers. Sometimes it's just a question of a good fit. Luck and persistence helps you find that good fit.

Miriam

Sorry, Terry, but even screenwriters need to have their fun.

Ashley, my sister! Perhaps because I am older than you (I'm assuming), I believe the words go: RESPECT, take care of TCB (Taking care of Business). Redundant, yes, but "TCB" was a common phrase at that time. My husband, the avid music collector, has confirmed said lyrics.

Shall we start some misunderstood lyrics threads?

Miriam

Okay, it's late, and I forgot who said what.

But -- as for reading and sharing writing, those who haven't checked out www.zoetrope.com might want to give that a shot. There's lots of terrific folks over there, too (and some overlap).

I would now like to formally welcome myself and everyone else to the board so we can dispense with the formalities and get on with the cynical, witty and/or sarcastic barbs.

P.S. Happy Holidays.

Miriam

How does that other song go: "There's a bathroom on the right?"

Do you know that one, Randy?

Miriam

It's a tough racket, Billy. Like Craig says, everyone's been through some of this. I'm in the middle of negotiations for an option right now, but I've been through enough to know not to count my options till they're hatched. I'll let you know when it's a done deal . . .

Good luck to you.

Miriam

I agree. Anyone with any sense would know that Burger King is far superior. As my kids will tell you, they have better chicken nuggets, and THEY are the ones with the LORD OF THE RINGS toys! Frodo rules!

Miriam

My name is Miriam, and I am a Moviebytes-aholic . . .

Thanks for the great meeting place. I have made lots of terrific friends on this site. It's hard to let a day pass without dropping by.

Miriam

Just saw Lord of the Rings and loved it; also Harry Potter. I don't usually go to see movies that I think will be bad (though sometimes rent out of curiosity later), so no bad ones, though I do admit shutting SWORDFISH off after five minutes of watching the rental -- what was supposed to be appealing about that movie anyhow?

Miriam

Hmmmm. . . do I dare post my goals? Hopefully my skin is thick enough to deal with any blasting my goals may inspire. Here goes:

Since I have recently optioned a script for the first time and will be paid to rewrite it, my first goal is to rewrite the script, which for me is not easy. (Remember Tom Hanks taking out his own tooth in CASTAWAY? That's me rewriting . . .)

My next goal will be to find someone to option another script.

My third goal will be to finish my third script, which is halfway done.

My fourth goal will be to finish my teen novel, which is nearly done.

My fifth goal will be not to let my children drive me crazy.

My sixth goal will be to fight the war on terrorism. (Just wanted to see if anyone's still reading.)

My seventh goal will be to spend a little less time goofing around on the message boards and more time reading and writing . . .

Wish me luck.

Miriam

In general, it takes me about a year to write a script. When I'm writing it. Sometimes I start a project and then it needs to sit and percolate a while (or I'm sick of it and need to lay it aside for a bit), and then pick it up when I can. Keep in mind that I have three part time jobs and two children. I write when I can, and very erratically. There have been times I've written for a couple of hours every day for weeks, other weeks when I don't write at all. I wish I were more disciplined and consistent, but I'm not. When I'm really caught up with a story I can really work hard for a long time and churn stuff out. Other times it's the pulling teeth stuff. Sometimes the work happens when I'm doing other things, but my subconscious is mulling problems over. Hard to explain.

But, like Randy, I think it's good to set goals that are high. The hardest part about the marketing goals is that they are not really in our control, you just have to keep getting your stuff out there.

Miriam

I don't know if 13 is too young to be considered seriously by the industry, Josh. But what I do know is that this is a very tough, very competitive industry which tons of people are trying to break into. And for most of us, it takes more than being pretty good or even really good. It takes lots of hard work, persistence, and some luck. I would recommend that you keep writing, in lots of different forms besides screenplays, and keep reading, especially good screenplays, and get your work out there if you think it's ready. There are many contests you can enter, or screenwriting workshops or classes you can take to get feedback on your work from the outside world.

I wish you the best of luck. Make your work the best it can be, and you are bound to succeed some day. Don't be discouraged if it takes longer than you think; this is true for most of us.

Writing is a skill that can be developed at any age. Practice and maturity will only improve your skill and deepen the meaning and impact of what you write.

You may want to consider getting on a site like www.zoetrope.com where you can review others' screenplays and they review yours. You can see what other people out there are writing and trying to bring to the marketplace. It's also an opportunity to develop the thick skin you will need for the business and to learn to take criticism (and when to ignore it).

Miriam

I have definitely shared that workshop experience. It's very important to keep in mind the big picture, what your vision is, and to pay attention to when the readers of your work are just not "getting" the vision, and directing their comments to their own vision. What you want, ideally, is to hone your vision so that more people "get" what you are doing. Whether they like it or not is a different question.

Miriam

D.G.,

I honestly can't imagine that producers and agents have the time and energy to go around to sites to auction screenplays when people are beating down their doors trying to get them to read things, it just doesn't make sense to me. This is not a seller's market, that's all there is to it.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I calls 'em like I sees 'em . . .

Keep on keeping on --

Miriam

I write what I love. Most scripts have little chance of being produced whether they're considered "commercially viable" or not. I just don't think I could take the time and energy to write something if I didn't truly love it. After writing it, I then think, "who's making films like this?" when I consider marketing. Someone out there is making art films, quirky films, you name it; the chances are less you'll get big bucks for getting one of those made, that's all.

Who would have thought that SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE would do as well as it did? Or SHINE? Or another script no one would touch for years cause they thought it wasn't commercial enough, or upbeat enough -- AMERICAN BEAUTY? It's impossible to second guess the marketplace. You can work hard on that teen comedy, only to find that, by the time you've gotten around to marketing it, that trend is over and everyone wants horror flicks.

I truly believe that if you write a great script, in whatever genre, and persist in getting your material read, someone out there will want to buy it. Maybe not for a mid-six-figures, but you have to consider what your goals are.

One script I wrote very few of my friends loved, and it's not very commercial, but I kept at it. Now I've found a producer to option it. Have faith in yourself and your vision.

Good luck.

Miriam

That's my motto, D.G.: "Lacuna Matata!"

Miriam

It's good of you to be so conscientious, but I'm sure your comments would be welcome. There is a range of skills and talent on that site, as everywhere. The fun part is getting to know people through the message board and "private offices" on the site, where you really can exchange ideas and leads and get to know people on a deeper level. I've gotten to know many folks through that site I consider to be friends, and some of us even met in L.A. at a conference a couple of years ago.

It's a great site, as is this one.

Miriam

Oh, dear. Not sure what it means but I assume it's a compliment? Welcome all. And FYI San Fran is not flyover zone. MINNESOTA is, ya, fer sure, you betcha!

Miriam

I kept thinking of Bob Kosberg while reading this thread. I saw him speak at a conference in Hollywood and he truly does deal in just ideas. The trouble is, they have to be fantastic, original ideas for movies which are truly high-concept, one sentence movies. He's done very well by this, and may be worth checking out. But for most of us, the love of writing is in the execution of it, and not all of our ideas are for one-sentence movies. But I do know what you mean. I keep a running notebook where I jot down ideas as they come so I feel like they are not lost. I'll pick them up later when I need inspiration for the next project.

Good luck to you.

Miriam

Okay, here's my two cents: I agree with a writer above who said that the Russians had a harder program. HOWEVER, if you choose to skate a harder program, it oughtn't to LOOK like a harder program. And, though the Russian pair skates beautifully, during that performance they were clearly struggling; it did not look effortless. The Canadian skaters made it look easy, and skated with nary a misstep. They also showed great expression and emotion throughout.

I think the decision to give dual gold medals was a great solution. It acknowledged that the Russian skaters are excellent, but also that the Canadians skated a gold medal level performance. I don't see how anyone can be unhappy with that. And I think both pairs have conducted themselves admirably, with great grace and good will towards each other.

And no, just cause I live in MN does not mean I'm in collusion with the Canadians.

Miriam

P.S. Aren't you glad we have stuff to argue about that doesn't involve terrorism? And am I the only one who misses Tonya Harding????

P.P.S. Does anyone else think that they should have redone the race where Apollo Ohno and that Korean skater ended up in a collision with two other skaters? That was amazing. I think they're lucky no one was more badly hurt.

Randy,

you have hidden depths!

Steven,

I don't know about the rest of the Minnesotans, I'm sure that's true, but I myself have always been partial to Japanese beer . . . makes a great chaser after shots of hot sake! (which, by the way, also clears your sinuses! Or was that the wasabi . . .)

Miriam But I digress . . . what were we talking about? Pass the sake!

I had the subscription to producers for a year and used it a ton. I think it's hard to get the interest of agents until you've got a deal brewing, so that one may not be worth it to you; you can get agent info. from the WGA website anyhow. And a word to the wise: I wouldn't fax people if I were you. I don't think they like it, it uses up their paper and I have a feeling they go straight to the recycling bin. Anyone had success with faxes? I've done better with email queries.

Miriam

I love hearing my name thrown around when I'm not in the room . . . The one thing I absolutely refuse to do on message boards is engage in personal attacks or even defenses of myself. So I'll stay out of this one too. However, I WILL also defend D.G., which I have decided (since he won't tell me) stands for "Da Guy!" Who else sends out more positive vibes than negative ones? He's a hard act to follow!

Please take note of another thread I am starting which may be relevant to those interesting in discussing writing.

Miriam

Hey folks,

I am currently teaching a writing class to adults, wherein I am discussing the relative uses of inspiration and dedication. In other words, waiting for the muse (or encouraging her to show up) versus showing up, on schedule, on a daily basis, no matter what comes out.

I've been working with a book by Dorothea Brande called "Becoming a Writer" which encourages daily writing in the morning (somewhat similar to Julia Cameron's approach, with some slight differences), and though I am a dreadful crank in the morning, I am finding it quite useful. Even after putting in the morning hour the other day, I had no trouble sitting down later in the day and churning out seven pages of the novel I'm working on. Something about getting in the habit of writing is working for me.

Any thoughts?

And yes, I said I'm writing a novel. Don't drum me off the message board, okay? I'm also working on a rewrite for a script under option, so I'm not a total traitor . . .

What inspires you? What disciplines you? For me, Mozart, and getting up before the kids are awake . . .

Miriam

I am also not a morning person, so this commitment I have made to writing in the am is a very serious commitment, and it is already paying off. Unlike Cameron, who wants you to write longhand (which tires my hand quickly and is illegible in my case), and who calls it "brain drain," the idea behind Brande is this:

Writing for an hour every morning taps into your ability to use your subconscious. We all have those moments of inspiration, when we feel like we've tapped into a wonderful stream of free-flowing words. The idea behind doing it as a habit is to train ourselves to be able to tap that stream more often, even at will. It seems to be working for me. It's getting easier and easier to write for long periods, and doesn't seem like a strain to "make myself" do it.

The idea is to MERGE inspiration and dedication, to make discipline and your subconscious work together, rather than against each other. This is a long process which takes some commitment. I follow it because I'm tired of being an occasional writer, and want to move more out of hobby into profession (I do get paid, but I wouldn't say I'm quite supporting myself yet . . . at least not in the manner to which I have become accustomed . . .)

Perhaps it's facing one of those birthdays this year with a "0" at the end which makes me want to more seriously commit to something, I don't know. But I don't want to feel I'm at the mercy of moods and whims in order to write.

How do you suppose Stephen King does it? Shall we write and ask him?

As a friend of mine is fond of saying, the first rule of becoming a writer is this: "Adhere ass to chair."

Miriam

Ashley,

Be sure to run any contract you're entering into by an experienced entertainment attorney first. Feel free to email me to discuss privately, I'm in the midst myself.

Miriam

Writing the truth from your life does not necessarily mean lifting directly an event that occurred to you. Truth is a little more abstract -- it can mean distilling something about that event; your anger, frustration, the almost comic sense of bizareness of the situation, whatever piece of it you want to take away from that. But it needs to fit an overall dramatic structure. It needs a context within a character's development for it to make sense to a viewer.

That's why "writing what you know," that famous old adage, often confuses writers. You do not need to take it literally.

I wrote a biography of a pianist in the 19th century who had 8 children. Do you think I had experience that directly related to that? Not precisely. But I have tried to be an artist (writer, and oddly enough, piano teacher) while raising two children. Do you think I could use some of my feelings of frustration and struggle to maintain my personal identity while being a wife and mother in writing the story? You bet I did. Not always consciously, but it was certainly there.

Abstract, distill, get at the essence of your experience, and use that to formulate a dramatic story. Then your story will be truthful.

Miriam

D.G. for Prez????

I'm there!

Miriam

I know we are a screenwriting crowd, but I have lately turned my efforts to novels as well, especially the pre-teen market.

Anyone else doing the same and want to share thoughts via email? Or swap chapters?

Miriam

Bob, thanks for the lead. As the mother of two young children, I doubt I'll be going anywhere for a month (unless they have babysitting there?) but it sounds like heaven.

Somehow I manage to write here at home. I've written one (revising now) and started another, but interested in finding a website, group, or like-minded people to get some feedback. Locally there are some heavy-hitting groups which are very literary but I think my stuff may be slightly more commercial (in fact my husband and I met at such a place years ago). And it seems to be for that particular odd audience, between around ages 9 - 15. Sort of in between.

I hope that the publishing world is somewhat more accessible; we'll find out. I do think, because movies are so expensive to produce, and it's to a large extent an insiders' club, that it is inherently more difficult to break in.

Miriam

True. I bet she's still a mother of two kids, though. And not on welfare anymore.

The best advice I got was to write it as if you were telling the story to a captive audience, you know, like "Imagine that . . ." Make sure to include what your main character wants and the obstacles to that goal. You do not necessarily have to reveal if they succeed or not; in fact, if you leave it a little unclear, you just might make them want to read the script. And I wouldn't restrict it to one page at first, just start writing. If you go too long you can always edit down.

Good luck.

Miriam

Thanks, especially for the specific websites, that is useful information.

Miriam

We should all aspire to his level of wit in our writing! To remember him, rent SOME LIKE IT HOT, SABRINA, BALL OF FIRE, or SUNSET BOULEVARD (or countless others!) this weekend.

Thanks for the memories, Billy!

Miriam

Paula,

I used to have an office there and found it hard to keep up. Now I just lurk, after having gotten nice invites to several great offices. Lots of the serious folks on Zoetrope seem to naturally congregate. If you want to email (or zmail) me I'll discuss further.

Miriam

Hard copy, absolutely.

Instead of listening to a computer read your script (visions of STAR TREK run through my brain), invite a bunch of friends over, assign them all parts, and have a reading party. Feed them pizza.

I have a writing group that reads scripts out this way, which is worth gold. You hear things that sound goofy even though they looked okay on the page. Or someone has trouble reading a line well, or expresses it a strange way. Or nobody laughs at that line you thought was so hilarious. And you see what really works.

Miriam

Just to warn you: the further you get, the longer you wait. I'm almost done with contract negotiations that took me as long as I spent writing the script. And I don't consider myself a fast writer.

That's definitely the right approach -- keep as many irons in the fire as you can, and start working on something else ASAP.

Miriam

Hey Bob, next time I'm in L.A. can I hang out with you? Maybe we can hit some Star Trek conventions together?

Miriam

www.scriptsales.com is the web address for Done Deal.

I LOVED Santa Fe, the people were fabulous and of course it's beautiful there.

Also the Hollywood Film Festival has one, with a Pitchmart. It's a bit of a cattle call for writers, but some have had success there. Great place to meet people.

Miriam

I have also understood that it has fallen out of favor and should be used only when absolutely necessary. I have also been known to mess with my dialogue and action lines (to shorten or lengthen them) whenever possible to even avoid the page break kind. I think they are visually distracting, which may be why they have become looked down on by those who have to read lots of scripts.

If your character merely stops talking for a second to look out the window, I think the reader will catch on that they then continue to speak. I'd only use it if readers find it confusing, such as if the action lines are a little longer. Try it out on friends who read your script and see what they think.

Miriam

Hey Randy, I've been meaning to email you!

Finally was sent my contract to sign for the option on THE RED SEAL. Will go into rewrite immediately. I wrote up an outline for the rewrite and am awaiting the producer's comments.

Meanwhile, marketing my middle grade chapter book with agents and publishers.

Oh, and started a teen novel, which may have to be set aside while rewriting.

And, teaching a creative writing class for adults in community education.

Along with a coupla other jobs . . .

Miriam

I thought Kirsten Johnson was going to be Wonder Woman?

Miriam

Rob Lowe did a fantastic Shaggy on an episode of SNL. The voice was dead on.

Make the most out of the information you get ahead of time about who will be there. Figure out who is most likely to be interested in your script and concentrate on pitching to them.

And SMILE! Think of it from their point of view, being stuck at a table listening to (mostly) lame pitches all day when they'd rather be doing something fun. Treat them as human beings and use humor, relax and be yourself.

Good luck.

Miriam

Or, if the picture does not get made for whatever reason, the rights can revert back to you, so that you can option or sell it to someone else. Or, if it takes longer, the option can be renewed for a longer period.

Miriam

And, because of the competition out their amongst writers for gigs, it's getting more commonplace for producers to expect to pay much less for an option, or to try to get options for nothing. My script was just optioned as well. It's much cheaper for them to option a script for a short time to see if they can get it packaged and find financial backing before investing more $$. And in these uncertain financial times, and the difficulty and expense of making a film, you can certainly understand it.

Miriam

While I agree for the most part with Rod's assessment, which is also a result of his actual experience, I would just add that it's not always a bad thing to go with a start-up prodco. For some of us, particularly living outside of L.A. and with no contacts at the beginning, the smaller or startups are the only ones who will consider a first time writer. I figure it's worth taking a somewhat smaller option deal to get your foot in the door, because as everyone knows the odds are so much against you in this business.

It is a very complicated process, the negotiations and all that, and yes the contracts are so lengthy you would think you are working out a major corporate merger or international treaty!

Also, Rod is right to say that if you are offered an option you need to consult an entertainment attorney or agent to broker the deal for you.

Six months is not a long time in the movie world as far as development and trying to put a package together, so you may be selling yourself short if you limit to that; some studios or prodcos may balk at a time limit so short. Unless you're getting lots of outright sale offers, I say take the best option you can get, if you are not yet produced. Not counting the zero-money-up-front options, which should of course not be pursued.

Miriam

Rod,

I guess the only thing I would add is that you've been lucky to be able to go to many pitch sessions. I think that's one of the best ways for new writers to get the attention of a producer. For some of us traveling to L.A. and the expense of the pitch sessions, as well as the time away from jobs and families, makes that difficult. I've only managed one, and that's not where I found my luck. But if you can manage it, more power to you.

Miriam

Wow! Thanks for your good wishes, everyone. I credit my fabulous internet connections with helping me get there (you know who you are). The rewrite process is fascinating and lots of work but also enjoyable. Would be happy to share notes on it with anyone who's gone through it.

Be persistent and hang on to your dreams! If I can do it from the middle of flyover land, anything's possible.

Miriam

Thanks, Randy. You have been a great help to me. And you bring up a good point: patience. I first responded to the query on the Writerscriptnetwork email last summer. This is how long has taken for the process to get to the point of a signed option contract. It has not been easy waiting all of this time.

Speaking of which, the period one might sell yet. I'm still waiting . . .

But most importantly, I'm still writing, doing other things. You need the distractions.

Miriam

Question: Do you love to write?

If so, you should be writing. Whether it's a screenplay or a short story or novel, keep yourself writing.

I always thought my first screenplay was better than my second, but it was my second one that has been optioned. And I sent out fewer queries with it than the first, so go figure.

If William Goldman is right, than "nobody knows anything." Your script might not be attracting attention for any number of reasons, none of which was have anything to do with how good it is.

But, you might want to run the logline by us to see if it could be improved, or use any of the above suggestions. Meanwhile, let yourself write something, even if it's just a journal.

If you do end up optioning it, chances are they will want you to rewrite it, and you want your writing juices primed.

Take a screenwriting (or other writing) class for a jumpstart. Read some good screenwriting books, like STORY by Robert McKee, or THE TOOLS OF SCREENWRITING by Howard and Mabley, or Linda Seger's MAKING A GOOD SCRIPT GREAT and see if it gets you thinking differently about your work. Read some good screenplays, like SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE, AMERICAN BEAUTY, any other Oscar winners.

Enjoy the writing for its own sake. That's what it's all about.

Good luck.

Miriam

Gee, shucks! Thanks so much Rafael, Peter, everyone -- they like me, they really like me!

Best of luck to all of you-- keep writing, keep getting your stuff out there. That's the name of the game.

Miriam

When I recommend screenwriting books, it is not for the purpose of slavishly following one method or another, just to learn about different ways to think about structure, scenes, etc. It can trigger ideas in your mind you may not have thought of, which can be useful. You definitely have to choose to utilize what is practical for you whatever stage you are in.

Miriam

NO.

I had the experience of entering the same script in a number of contests in one year. It did very well in a few contests, reasonably well in a couple, and got nowhere at all in the rest. In the contests that gave feedback, I was amazed at the huge range of response.

The upshot is this: Readers are human beings. In the first rung, especially, the readers are slogging through possibly huge numbers of scripts, and each reader has his/her own pet peeves, attitudes, etc. It is not a scientific process. The judges for the later rounds are often the most qualified of the bunch. By that time some possibly very good scripts have already been eliminated.

It is not science. Mostly, better scripts float to the top. Not always. I'm sure each contest does its best to try to be fair. The truth is, some judges look to what is commercially viable, others to what they think constitues good literature. I have judged in a regional competition and know how difficult it can be to rate scripts numerically.

That said, I wish everyone the best of luck. Talent has something to do with it, but luck does as well -- getting readers and judges who happen to like your script. The chances of that happening are better if you've made your script the best it can be, through rewriting, using feedback, writing classes and workshops, etc.

Miriam

It's partly a numbers game, so don't let the rejections get you down. If the chances are one in 100, that means you need to send out 100.

The worst response? Silence. And that's the most common.

Miriam

Thanks again, D.G., Colleen, everyone! Can you feel the love in this room?

Heading into rewrite, supposed to be done with that before the end of July. Not sure if I'll recognize the script . . .

Would love to swap rewrite stories with anyone while I go through this.

Miriam

Good point there at the end, Mitchell. I know plenty of working screenwriters who do not live in L.A., and did not get their start by hanging out at parties. Granted, there will always be a large portion of the industry that operates that way, it's understandable since most of the business is centered in one place.

But if movies are going to reflect the hopes, dreams, and sorrows of the majority of the nation, some of us had better be writing from flyover land.

Plus, if we all moved there, wouldn't it be even more crowded and unpleasant? Just a thought.

Miriam

The producer is having me rewrite it. He gives me all the input I need. (If I took in more, I'd probably implode or something.)

No, I was just interested in sharing observations with anyone who has had to rewrite to someone else's specifications. It's a different experience than rewriting on your own.

Miriam

Hey, Randy --

Ever think of moving to the land of 10,000 lakes ;-) ?

Miriam

They are writers who did not start in L.A., but broke in with persistence and very good material. They are willing to travel to L.A. or N.Y. (one writes for HBO movies) when necessary. You probably would not recognize their names, but they are steadily working as screenwriters.

There are others, of course, who also direct and/or produce their own films, and do so outside of L.A. It is possible. It may take longer, and requires great persistence, and strong writing. One advantage may be that you can stay away from politics and rely on the strength of your material.

I have just optioned a script, solely relying on the internet and the telephone for my connections. The producer and I have never met. And I have no intention of moving to California. Hopefully I will continue to get work as time goes on, regardless of where I live.

Miriam

Two suggestions. First, don't give them an answer. Try answering the question with a question: "How much are you offering me?"

Second, get an entertainment attorney or call an agent and tell them you have a deal in the works, and get someone else to negotiate for you.

If you're not crazy about either of those, take a look at the WGA minimums on their website (www.wga.org) for some ballpark ideas. If they are not WGA signatory and are a small outfit, they may not be able to come up with as high a number. You need to consider also what the budget of the film is, and how important it is for you to work with these folks. But don't lowball yourself; leave room for negotiation. If you want to talk boring details, give me an email (see my profile); I've just been through this twice. Rejected one offer, accepted another.

Congratulations and good luck.

Miriam

Are the books you've written novels, or what? Are you adapting one into a screenplay? I am currently trying to sell a preteen chapter book and would love any advice about publishers/agents etc. I'll share what I know about screenwriting in exchange. Check out my profile for email address.

Miriam

If it's a popular book (like a bestseller), chances are someone has already bought up the rights and is working on it. Or, if you want to option or buy the rights, it may cost you an arm and a leg. You need to find out from the publisher who has the subsidiary rights (to make into a film) and if they are available to option or buy. Then you need an attorney or other legal references to draw up the necessary paperwork, assuming it's available.

That's just the legal stuff. Then the hard part is adapting it into a screenplay. Sometimes the best books are the hardest to turn into a dramatically viable, visual cinematic experience. But it can be done.

I know this sounded negative, but I hope it was helpful.

Miriam

Ground Control to Major Tom:

The short answer? It depends.

The long answer? A lot of this stuff is determined during your negotiations for option and sale. The negotiations can take horrifically long, and the contract may end up almost as long as your script. Everyone's deal is different, and yes, if it's your first time and you're dealing with non-WGA signatory companies, you can't go by WGA minimums necessarily, though they are something to aspire to. If you want particulars about a particular deal, you'll have to read the horrifically long contracts. Of course, you try to get as high a purchase price as you can (a percentage of the budget, usually anywhere from 2-5%), you try to hang on to literary rights, etc. Again, depends on each particular deal. You need an attorney just to interpret the language, that's for sure, or an agent to broker the deal for you. It's that complicated.

I'm sure that wasn't very helpful.

Miriam

I'm reworking the outline for my rewrite of the script I optioned, THE RED SEAL. The process involves two-three hour long phone calls with the producer!

Also marketing my preteen novel, and finishing a first draft of a young adult book.

And -- uh oh! -- the kids just got out of school . . .

Miriam

I am an atheist still, thank God.” -- Luis Bunuel

Question: There's a Bigfoot II? I still haven't seen Bigfoot I !!

Miriam

Some of us appreciate the much-needed levity!

Miriam

I did my obligatory reviews, then read a few friends' scripts, and posted one. That was over a year ago, on the old site.

I stay for the private offices; and though I've given up having one of my own (it takes too much effort, as D.G. says), I lurk in several friends' offices and get much needed support, encouragement, sharing of tips and leads, a few laughs . . . Some of us even met in L.A. back in 2000 during the Hollywood Film Fest and it was a blast getting to know people in person, to put faces to the messages.

I'd say it was worth it.

Miriam

P.S. Bill -- why don't you run your loglines by us and I'm sure some folks here will help you fix 'em up!

Miriam

You have hit something there, Steven. Many Westerners think reincarnation sounds cool, because everyone is afraid of dying, that their "self" will cease to be, and they want to keep living again and again.

In Eastern thought reincarnation is thought to occur for everyone except the most enlightened, who have reached a state of perfection which allows them to avoid the accursed cycle of being born again only to suffer another lifetime. Reincarnation in that context is not thought to be a good thing!

Miriam

Darrell,

In case you're unfamiliar with this site, we are mostly screenwriters or aspiring screenwriters who also want to turn our scripts into films. We all want managers and agents. I'm afraid posting here may not get you the results you are looking for . . .

Miriam

I have found that the best way to avoid being in a shouting match is to remain silent.

Miriam

I will just make one more attempt to defend Zoetrope, and I don't mean the scripts posted or the comments you get from the scripts you put up there.

The value, for me, has been getting past that point into the "private offices" where you are privy to message boards run by members, by invitation only, so you can have discussion with people you have come to know without the whole world looking on.

The advantage of this is enormous. Everyone posts profiles so you know who you're dealing with. Each office has a select group (some more select group than others) and you can discuss prodcos or agents without fearing that the person you are discussion will be lurking that office. The caliber of some of the people there is very high, there is some overlap between here and there, but you have to look for these folks in the more public message boards first. One you find them, you have struck gold.

The tips, leads, advice, and discussions about writing and the biz have been extremely useful in a select few of my friends' (and I do consider them friends) "private offices." If you're not willing to slog through the required reads to get there, I can understand it. Only two of the scripts I read were worth reading (and very much so).

Miriam

If you don't want to break up the action too much, and the change of place is brief, I use what it called a "mini-slug" as below:

INT. BEDROOM - NIGHT

Mary jumps up from bed, startled by a loud crash. She runs to the window and looks

OUTSIDE

where two men stand over her car, baseball bats in hand.

INSIDE

Mary grabs the phone.

--- you get the idea. This can work if you have a large location and want to focus on one part of the location as well. Think in terms of your shots, and how long the action is. If it's short, a minislug alerts the reader as to the change in what you're looking at, but doesn't disrupt the eyes too much when reading the script.

Miriam

Lori,

I would also recommend reading screenplays of produced films, particularly if they have been Oscar winners or nominees. It is more instructive than just watching the films. Then watch the film with the screenplay in front of you. Some DVD's of films now have comments from directors and/or screenwriters, which could prove instructive too.

I also recommend STORY by Robert McKee, THE TOOLS OF SCRIPTWRITING by Howard and Mabley, and THE WRITER'S JOURNEY by Christopher Vogler.

Screenwriting is hard. I think people view it as easy because they are shorter than your average novel, and because there are fewer words on the page. But writing less is actually harder than writing more, because you have to make every word count. You have to imply a great deal with very little.

If you feel your stuff is ready, and have gotten feedback from other writers or people accustomed to reading screenplays, get ahold of information about queries as our friends have stated above, and look into "who's buying what" on this site or Hollywood Creative Directory Online (www.hcdonline.com) or in book form to research prodcos and agents. Also check out "Producers Seeking Material" on hollywoodlitsales.com and Jerrol LeBaron's site writersscriptnetwork.com (or at least subscribe to his excelent e-newsletter, which is how I optioned my script).

Good luck.

Miriam

Forgive me for repeating what I think someone else said in a different thread here, but your logline needs to tell us these things: who your protagonist is, what they want, and the obstacle/antagonist. What you have are taglines (like you'd see/hear in a trailer).

Here's an example from a boxing movie I'm making up on the spot:

An Ohio housewife wants to prove herself in the boxing ring by fighting an almost unbeatable opponent: her own daughter.

Tell us who the character is we are rooting for, and what they're up against.

Miriam

You can use any name you like. I would be wary, however, of casting my villain with the name of a current boss or my brother-in-law or something . . .

Miriam

I wouldn't worry if you have one sentence or two, or what the exact word count is. But Andrea is right: we need to know who the MAIN CHARACTER is, their goal and obstacle. That is the crux of it.

Craig, post some here, why don't ya? I'm on here sporadically, and there are lots of other folks with good eyes for loglines. I'm up against a deadline for a rewrite so can't encourage trying to get me to do anything else till that's done. Except possibly goof off on here once and a while when my stuff's printing . . .

Miriam

I've heard nothing but good about them, particularly if you have a pretty commercial script to pitch. Definitely legit.

Miriam

Shelley,

I think that is a terrific exercise to undergo, which should pin down for you what your story is about. If you can't do that exercise, your script may need work (or is possibly very unconventional, which is not illegal, but harder to sell).

When pitching to someone you could just shorten it up, honing in on the most important aspects and jazzing up the language to make it interesting. I like loglines that are more tv-guide length, but have some of the important elements you describe above.

Miriam

And by "you" I mean the generic, plural you, of course.

Miriam

I got one of those emails today, too, mentioning my script by name. I assumed that they got my name and the script title (and genre) off of this site's "Winning Scripts" listing. Do you have a script listed there too?

Miriam

It's great, I highly recommend it!! When I went I stayed in the cheapo rooms at St. John's College (the bare amenities, but that was good enough for me), and close to where everything was happening. If you don't mind living without room service, I thought it clean and comfortable. No maid service. But quiet and beautiful.

If I can get there, I will. The panels were great and very interesting, very fun, great people. Also a neat area to visit if you haven't been.

Miriam

I have never used Venice Arts or a query service either. But I did enter a number of competitions in 2000, and the name of the screenplay has been up on various sites, sometimes with the genre. I have certainly sent queries and scripts around, too. But you'd think there would be one common thread between all of us. Kinda odd . . .

Miriam

I am a pianist too, so I love to listen to music. I find that many different kinds appeal to me at different times, and sometimes the music I listen to seems totally incongruous to what I'm writing. But sometimes when I'm reading, revising, etc. I need it quiet, or wordless classical music so less distracting. I often think about what kinds of music my characters like, even if it doesn't get into the script. I do think you should leave it out unless absolutely necessary; give the other creative minds collaborating on your film something to do . . .

Miriam

I tried replying to their email and they said that it was "someone I submitted to" who gave them the name. MK, if you want to take this off the message board and try to wrack our brains via email, we could, but I've submitted to lots and lots of people . . .

Miriam

I got your emails before, Bill, wasn't there two or three of them? You're sure you've got the addresses absolutely right? Try me again too, just for a test.

Miriam

Lorie,

Read the thread labeled "Logline news flash . . . beep beep beep" and that should help you, particularly Shelley's posting about the elements of a plot description. That also helps with pitching.

Miriam

I just feel compelled to share my relief at coming to the words "THE END" of my rewrite today. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm done, since I'm not satisfied with the last few scenes yet, and my husband hasn't read it yet, and I need to reread it a few more times, but geez it feels good.

After several weeks of talking over what needed to be done and working on a very detailed outline, then a few weeks of actual writing, it feels very good to see light at the end of the tunnel! And I'll meet my deadline. Whew!

Miriam

Thanks, guys. I would like to pass on a few things I have learned from this experience:

1. Don't get too attached to one word, one line, one character, one scene. Chances are, that's the one that's going to need cutting. No matter how good you think your script is, or how good they tell you it is, they will (hopefully) ask you to rewrite it.

2. Be willing to try different approaches; keep an open mind. Flexibility is key. Filmmaking is a collaborative art, and the screenplay is the blueprint. Leave room for other folks to have something to do.

3. Keep your sense of humor. This is not always an easy process.

4. Read screenplays of produced films, if you don't already, particularly ones that are similar to yours. Know your genre.

Miriam

Depends how long it's been. Give them a good while, most of these places are swamped with submissions. Include an SASE with your query. Chances are, if they don't respond, that they are just not interested. It wouldn't hurt you to follow up, but I don't know that it would help if they're just not interested.

Some people like to fax but I have always thought snail is more polite. Faxing uses up their resources (paper, the line the fax comes in on) and seems more intrusive. Though if some places will accept e-queries I definitely do that, it saves on time and postage. Make sure they're willing to accept them first, though, or they may think you're obnoxious.

I have a question for you, Lorie; you post lots of questions, then don't respond when people answer them for you. Are these helping you at all? It would be nice to have a sense that you're reading them.

Miriam

Yes, the script has changed a huge amount. I think for the better. I can't take a vacation yet, because I'm still tweaking up until my deadline this week, plus getting a few guinea pigs to read it. And yes, there may be another rewrite, and/or polish; it's up to the producer. I'm happy to work on it more if it's asked of me. The collaboration has been very interesting and I've learned a lot. It helps to work with someone who's intelligent and knows movies. We were speaking the same language, which I think was fortunate.

D.G., I am not willing to post on AZ now that the script is optioned, since it is not strictly speaking my property to do anything I want with. I might be willing to zap it to you if you're interested in seeing it (and you can download an ascii file), but I'm not really looking for critical comments at this point; the only guy I need to please is the one cutting the checks.

Back to the vacation -- I don't really want one. What I want is a chance to get back to my second young adult novel, which has been hollering at me, half-finished, from the desk . . .

Happy writing, everyone!

Miriam

Don't worry, my feelings weren't hurt or anything like that; I just wanted to be sure we were answering on a level that was helpful to you. In some ways, you may be right, but let me tell you this: I have an agent, but she's only doing my children's books, she doesn't do screenplays, and I've only had her for a week so far! And I don't know anyone. Worse yet, I live in flyover land. So it's possible to get some work writing even with my obstacles. The key? Learn as much as you can about writing well; join a good writing workshop or take classes, read, write, do the kind of e-networking you're trying to do. Then just get your stuff out there. Be willing to go with a small, independent, or start-up producer when you're starting out. They are more likely to read your work than an agent or studio. Will they pay you? Hopefully, if you know what's reasonable to ask for. Will they get the movie made? Again, hopefully, if they can get the financing, etc., that it takes. Is it a gamble? Every time. But it doesn't hurt to get information and an attorney if you need one, when the time comes.

Good luck.

Miriam

I think that in writing your first draft it is often helpful to just let yourself write. If you want your script to really stand out in the biz and be a good piece of dramatic art, however, I would work during your rewrite on looking at the overall structure carefully. A three-act (or four-act) structure is used so often because it works. I'm not saying there aren't cases where a writer can't get away with some other structure. But in the case of dramatic writing in particular, structure is very very important. And what makes screenwriting so challenging and interesting.

One of the main things we worked on during my rewrite was structure, and it has helped ennormously. The script now feels like it has momentum, and definite points where something happens, or turns in a new direction, or "reverses" altogether (yes, it can be done!) -- structure is the skeleton that holds up the body, the frame that holds up the building.

Miriam

There was another thread about this; look back in the posts, I think it was called Screen Arts Foundation or something. Several of us "gals" got these emails too. We never did find out how they got hold of our names/scripts/genres, and when we emailed Screen Arts they just said that "someone we submitted to" gave them our names. I don't like it when they can't even tell you how they got your info.

Miriam

Let's see . . .

Andrea, I don't write without a structure ahead of time, I just said I think that's an okay way to attack a first draft. I always work with some kind of outline first. That's just me.

Bill, I don't think acts necessarily have to work out to an exact page count, nor do I think viewers/readers are necessarily conscious of the three-act structure. However, most of us have seen enough movies and/or plays to have taken in the feeling of the three-act structure and often are unsettled when it's not there. We'll walk away from a movie and feel that something just didn't work, it didn't meet our expectations in some way; it lagged, dragged or sagged somehow and we can't quite put our fingers on it . . . that's usually a structural problem.

Andrea, the four-act structure is sometimes used, even accidentally. Think of it this way: the three act structure means you have a long second act, and mid-second act is usually where a movie drags. It helps to have an act II midpoint, when someone happens, turns, or reverses to pick up that lag, turn the action in a new direction. That can often make a film feel more like four acts if the midpoint is a big enough event or break.

Here's my favorite quick definition of three act structure, pilfered from "Successful Scriptwriting" by Wolff and Cox:

Act I: Who is my central character and what does he want?

Act II: What does my central character do to bring about his goal and who or what opposes him?

Act III: What are the events that finally bring my character to reaching or failing to reach his goal?

-- it's very simple, this description, but I think it's accurate.

Structure is the big picture. I need to have at least the beginning and ending clear in my mind before starting to work. (the hard part is that pesky middle . . .)

Miriam

Sorry, Bill, I forgot to answer your other question. You asked if it was the structure that sold the screenplay. No, it wasn't. The producer said he was sold by the quality of my writing, the two main characters who are interesting and unusual, and the situation, which is original and intriguing. But he has insisted on fixing the structure before trying to sell it to a financing agency or studio or the general moviegoing public. He was very clear about wanting the structure to conform to three acts. I think changing elements of the story to better conform to the three act structure has done nothing but improve it.

Miriam

I would keep it short, and only include relevant education/experience/credits. Things like: your great degree at such-and-such college, your writing experience, any awards won, and any relevant work and life experience. For example, you wrote a medical mystery and you're a doctor. Or your story is about a deaf boy and you have a deaf child. You get the idea. Short and sweet, write to impress them.

Good luck.

Miriam

But neither MK or I have scripts posted there. Could be somewhere else, or a variety of sources. Very interesting.

Miriam

When I teach writing, the one I see the most often is "its" and "it's" -- even after I explain it to (adult) students.

Miriam

I also do not believe that the exact page counts should be written in stone. But they are a good guideline. The reason is this: an audience sits in a dark theater waiting for something to happen. If they've been sitting for more than a half an hour and the story is not moving yet (there's been no major plot point or we don't yet know what the story's ABOUT), they will get restless and start heading out for more popcorn. That is why something has got to happen by about page thirty, preferably sooner. Same with your ending. If the audience thinks the picture's mostly over, but it drags on for another forty-five minutes, they'll be heading for their cars to beat the rush. That's why the page counts are there. Of course there are many exceptions. But as a general rule the proportion of the acts is a good one, particularly, as Rod points out, when you are starting out and trying to get a foot in the door. As Andrea also says, master the form before you break the rules.

Think of a film as a piece of music. This is the closest analogy for me. Music depends on the listener's short term memory retaining what it's just heard while it listens to what's happening now. This is why music is a very highly structured art form, whether pop or classical. You expect to hear the refrain repeated a few times, even though the song only lasts three minutes. It's pleasing to the ear. When you hear a symphony or a sonata, the main theme needs to come back; we want to return to the key in which we began. Even though listeners are not always conscious of the structure, their ears expect it. That is why unconventional, more contemporary classical music often fails to gain a wide audience. That doesn't mean it's bad to write unconventional music, but it explains why most listeners have trouble "understanding" it.

Music, like film, depends on time and memory. A novel can be picked up, put down, passages reread at will. Films are watched over a specific period of time. Our audiences are captive during that period. I think this is why structure is so important.

Miriam

Andrea,

Do you own a copy of "VideoHound's Golden Movie Retriever?" It's a large reference book of movies out on video, put out every year, and a wealth of info. They do indexes by subject, which could be helpful to you. It's also really fun to have when you're arguing with someone about who was in what old movie, or if you want to look up who directed or wrote something.

There is a category called "desert war" and I'll be happy to email you the titles I see here if you want.

Miriam

I have nothing but the highest respect for your ulterior motives, D.G., but I must confess that I write out of purely selfish motives.

Here goes an attempt at explaining it: I get all these things in my head -- images, characters, pieces of dialogue, feelings, you name it -- and they are crammed in there trying to get out. Okay, I may have just described some kind of serious illness. But the truth is that I have very little time to write, given the care of a household and children. So these things ferment in my head until I make the time to write, then they all come tumbling out. It's such a relief to get the stuff on paper, it's joyful.

Another consideration is that at this stage in my life I have decided to do more and more of the things I love, and less of things I don't love. The latter describes most jobs I've ever had. The things I love seem to be mostly writing and playing the piano. Fortunately, I've managed to find ways to get paid doing both. Haven't paid the mortgage off yet or done as well as our talented friend Rod, but I'm working on it.

And meanwhile, the stories, ideas, images, and people keep crowding my brain, talking to me and trying to find a way out of my head and onto the paper . . .

Miriam

Hey, some days this is my only contact with the outside world . . . sad, isn't it?

Miriam

I think it's very possibly to negotiate for "Associate Producer" credit, which is basically meaningless (did anyone see STATE AND MAIN? In the credits there was a line that read "A list of associate producers is available by writing to . . . ") but depends on each individual negotiation, as you say. My negotiations were complicated enough that I didn't want to cloud them with unnecessary demands. The first time is always the roughest. I do think it would be great to be some kind of producer on a film, but you need some clout (and/or money) to pull that off.

Anyone else have experience with this? Rod, how about you?

Miriam

Actually, if I were to be totally honest, I would tell you that I much prefer solitude these days. Keep in mind that I have two grade school children . . .

Miriam

I am not an expert, but I would think it would be harder, particularly if you are an unproduced writer. I would imagine a producer would want to keep the option of hiring another writer open to him/her in case the rewrite process doesn't go well, etc. An entertainment attorney would probably have a better answer for you.

Miriam

R. Sparks,

Congratulations on starting a thread that got folks to reply who aren't usually heard from on this board! It's nice to hear some new voices.

Miriam

Hey, Rafael,

Did you see THE MAJESTIC? I loved when the studio execs (voices) kept saying: "I got a 'what if.'"

Miriam

I received yet ANOTHER email solicitation from these people this morning, and wrote them to say that lots of my internet friends had received similar invites, which made us all wary, and that we dislike the thought of our information being bought and sold. We'll see if I get a response. Interestingly, the email said she had gotten "permission" to email me -- permission from whom?

Miriam

I've never been overly fond of my own name, until I had the privilege of being called "MIRIAMI SOUND MACHINE" by D.G. some time ago -- my personal favorite which I shall always treasure!

Miriam

This was most of the response I got today from Screen Arts:

"No prod cos sold anything. We put out a call to about 6-7 producers, agents, etc. that we personally know asking for tips on available screenplays that sounded interesting but that they may have passed on for other reasons (wrong genre, full production slate, etc.)

What they got back to us with is what we used to send the invites and we did so for the reason given.

I understand that trying to break in can be a frustrating experience full of disappointments and that it can be hard not to turn cynical as a result. But we should take care that it doesn't prevent us from having an open mind."

Thought you all might be interested.

Miriam

I did respond, politely, and said it was only the sheer number of these that went out to friends and acquaintances of mine that made me wonder. And that, incidentally, my recent option made me ineligible for their competition anyhow . . .

Miriam

Although I already expounded on three-act form in the other thread, I will just clarify some things I believe in briefly here:

Three-Act structure does not simply mean: beginning, middle, end. Nor does it mean that the act breaks have to happen at EXACTLY such-and-such a page. It does mean that the proportion should be set up that Act I is roughly half the length of Act II. Same for Act III. The reasons are the idea of audience expectation and attention span, as pointed out in the other thread. And, in each act certain things have to happen, as pointed out in the other thread, regarding character set up and turning points, and plot set up and turning points, heading towards crisis, climax, and resolution. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about.

I do believe that since screenplays are blueprints for films, which take place over time, that screenplays are like music (or also architecture, if you like a more abstract analogy) -- substance and form cannot be separated, nor one lorded over the other.

When you say one is a means to an end, Bill, I'm not certain that we disagree, but then again I'm not certain what you mean, entirely. If form is a means toward your end (a great screenplay), does that make it less important or somehow subservient? Are we, in the end, quibbling over semantics? I simply stress structure because so many screenplays written, particularly by beginners, lack structure, and this messes up the pacing, etc., of their work, and ultimately their message does not make it to an audience.

Without structure, the building falls down, no matter how beautiful the materials. If that make structure merely a "means" and not the foundation of the work, then I am truly mystified.

Miriam

Firstly, I did not say that all beginners write without structure. It is a common mistake with those starting out, however, and understandably so. It's difficult. It requires keeping the forest and the trees in your mind at the same time. That is what I find so stimulating and rewarding about screenwriting. I would also like to characterize myself as a beginner, despite the fact that I have optioned a script. It is relatively new to me.

Also, I think there is a middle ground between writing with no structure at all and writing with a rigid page count in mind to try to please Hollywood. There is a place in between, where the structure of what your write follows dramatic form, that builds momentum, that won't bore an audience because nothing is really happening in the plot or characters for too long a time and the story is just rambling. You can make this more or like the classic Hollywood model and it may still be successful if well written.

Novels are a different story. They can get away with less structure because they are read directly by a single person who is free to meander, reread, etc. A film is a collaborative venture shot over time and witnessed by a group during a finite period of time. That's a different sort of thing.

Virginia Woolf is a great example of a writer who doesn't use much obvious structure, which is why there haven't been very many film adaptations of her work. It's hard to do without losing the feel of the books. I thought Mrs. Dalloway was done particularly well, though some viewers may have had trouble with the loose structure of the film, and some literary purists may have balked at what was lost. I can guarantee that no one will be trying to adapt "The Waves" any time soon.

I agree, much in Hollywood is predictable, though that is not always the fault of structure. It comes down to what Bill talks about with content or substance. That is why structure alone does not a screenplay make. You need some substance too. Which is why I don't like to separate them. They are inseparable, ideally, like the forest and the trees.

Miriam

This may sound really stupid, but SMILE! Make eye contact! Think of the fest from their point of view -- how would you like to sit there for hours listening to one pitch after another, and most of them not what you're interested in? Remember that they're human beings too. If you can make a personal connection, you've done something great for both of you.

Miriam

I guess I would shy away from it, since you don't know whether it would be possible for the folks who end up making your film to be able to get the rights to that music or not. If it's absolutely crucial to your story, go ahead, risk it. If not, I'd leave it out. Or, if it's in between, it may be worth suggesting a genre of music that you think sets the right mood, or suits the personality of the characters (like 40's swing music, or punk rock), then let the director decide. Keep in mind that the other people involved in making your film will have ideas of their own.

Miriam

Well, I just heard this morning I'm going to need to do a second rewrite on a script. And I do get paid for these, so I consider myself a working screenwriter at this point. Why do I keep coming back here? Because . . . (sniff) . . . I love you guys, that's why!

Anybody got a hankie?

Miriam

I think what Craig is getting at is that it's not necessary to have a Syd Field cookie-cutter structure in order to have any structure at all, which I would agree with. If the examples Craig talks about work, in that they keep the audience interest, and the structure is well thought out and equally well executed, then I have nothing against it. I think there are many ways to make structure work in a screenplay. I'm just not certain why "structure" became a dirty word.

What I am not in favor of is a script that rambles on and on, with nothing in particular happening, no discernable turns in the plot or character development, and you wonder where on earth it's trying to go. I have judged a regional screenwriting competition and read scripts like this. The writers assume that creating characters they think are interesting, or situations they think are interesting, or clever dialogue, is sufficient. It is not. You need some structure in order to build momentum. Structure is just an overall big picture, the scaffolding that keeps your story together. Certain types of structure have proven more easily workable than others, so are more widely used, that's all. A beginning screenwriter, myself included, should consider it part of the learning process to try to incorporate a fairly standard Hollywood structure into a screenplay if they want to sell their material. This does not mean that every project they write has to be exactly the same.

Miriam

Hey, thanks, D.G.! I thought you were insulting me till I looked it up!

Did you know that D_G spelled backwards is G_D? Uh-oh, didn't mean to open up that can of worms again . . .

Miriam

Don't worry, Bryan, your message was received (by me) in exactly the spirit it was intended.

Miriam

In my "Video Hound Golden Movie Retriever" which I am so fond of quoting, there is a category of "Comedy Mystery." Like Faith, I knew I had seen some, like CHARADE. They also include the Pink Panther movies, and of course parodies like HIGH ANXIETY and MURDER BY DEATH. I don't know if you're shooting for a parody/satire, or more like a thriller with comic elements (like CHARADE). I think if there's a lot of comedy in it you should also include that in your pitch. Someone expecting or wanting a serious thriller might not cotton on to your idea, whereas someone wanting comedic material might love your concept. It's your call, though.

Miriam

My favorite part (besides the "what if" bit) was Bruce Campbell's cameo. I LOVE that guy!

Not a bad movie, but not perfect. Third act especially seemed slow to me.

Miriam

I'm with Bryan and Marc. And frankly, nobody's going to care if you use one - or two.

Miriam

Depression is a real illness, often with physiological causes that can easily be treated with anti-depressants. Using proper medication to treat an illness that is serious seems not only reasonable, but intelligent. There are different degrees of depression, and the causes vary according to the individual. But it is not to be taken lightly.

Let's all send positive thoughts Mitchell's way, shall we? And have compassion for one another.

Miriam

"Ten Things I Hate About You" was from TAMING OF THE SHREW, "O" was OTHELLO, and of course "Clueless" was Jane Austen's EMMA. It's certainly possible to redo a story from Shakespeare or other classics, it's done all the time. Not having seen "Dude . . ." I couldn't say. Perhaps "Two Gentlemen of Verona Get Stoned and Misplace Their Vehicles?" And did you hear there was going to be a remake, I believe entitled "Seriously, Dude, Where's My Car?" I'm not making it up.

"Legally Blonde" was fun, but I didn't see any relation to any Shakespeare play I've ever read or seen.

Miriam

Keep it simple; "practices Tai Chi" is sufficient.

Craig, you made me laugh!

Miriam

Keep in mind this is not a shooting script. For a spec script you want a simple, streamlined read for the producers/agents/readers to scan through, with as little interruption (so to speak) as possible. I'd go with Bryan on this one.

Miriam

Mitchell,

I hope your pain is gone, and that you have found a sweeter resting place. We miss you.

Miriam

Marcel,

FYI: "practise" with an "s" is mainly a British spelling, as in other words such as license/licence. It is natural the Oxford Dictionary would use the British spelling. Americans use the "c" as found in e.g. the American Heritage Dictionary.

Miriam

Tom,

Many of us also tried to reach Mitch via email and/or phone privately, rather than bickering on the boards. But I do think it was too late by that point. I think he had already made up his mind.

But the observations you offer are valid and worth thinking about. None of us really knew him, REALLY, though many here tried. And no one here is qualified to diagnose his mental state based on a few posts or emails.

The sad fact remains that, as you have said, he felt trapped in a room with no way out but one -- the hard way. We all wish we could have done something to prevent it.

I think the best we can do now is to keep our eyes and ears open to the people immediately around us, to be sure no one in our circle of friends feels likewise trapped without our noticing it and trying to reach them. If everyone did that, maybe no one would be lost to depression.

Miriam

The most common errors I see in print, on the boards, and in the work of my writing students, are errors of homonyms, which spell checks won't help with anyhow. As Ashley is fond of pointing out, there are so many pairs/trios of words that people confuse that it's good to get them straight. Sometimes you can make a mistake with one (or a typo) and not even be aware of it. The most common are it's/its, and they're/their/there.

It's always helpful to have another pair of eyes read your stuff, hopefully a sharp pair! A computer is no substitute for those eyes.

Miriam

All I can say is: don't we all?

Xena I mean, um, Miriam

Regarding the mindset of someone contemplating suicide towards the survivors, I will add this note from my family's experience:

My mother tried to kill herself, thankfully unsuccessfully, and when I ask her about it today she says that she felt that she was THE PROBLEM of the family, and that "everyone would be better off if I were gone." This is not exactly what I would call selfishness, but it is distorted or illogical thinking that is common when people are depressed. I doubt very much that most people in that severe mental state are capable of thinking clearly, or assessing what kind of damage they might be leaving behind in their loved ones. They are simply in pain, and wish that pain to be gone.

Please, everyone, let's stop the fighting back and forth, and the name-calling, life is just too short . . .

Miriam

Mileena,

I hadn't realized you were so young. As you could probably figure out, we are a bunch of flaky screenwriters who don't have any information to give you about auditions, and believe me agents do not hang around on this site.

That said, this is the advice I would give you:

Get as good as you can at your martial art. Get that black belt in karate, or whatever, if you haven't already, and kick some serious butt at your championships, etc.

At the same time, learn something about acting. Sign up for your local community theater, drama class at school, or theater classes for kids in your area. Have fun with that and learn how to speak so people can hear you in the last row, and how to carry yourself on stage. Take dancing or other types of movement if you can.

Then, keep your eye on the "performing arts/auditions" section of the classified ads in your paper, or postings at any local theaters to see if they're looking for talent. You never know when auditioning for a commercial, print ad, or bit part in the local version of A CHRISTMAS CAROL could lead to something else.

Good luck to you.

Miriam

Mary Kay,

Sounds like your plea has fallen on deaf ears. Do you have a subscription to Hollywood Creative Directory Online? You might want to consider it. Sometimes they have trial subscriptions that are a bargain. I had it for a year and used it a TON for myself and friends. Just go to hcdonline.com and check it out.

Miriam

Definitely send them thank you notes. Include your loglines and any really pertinent info., but keep it short. Just make sure they remember who you are, they met lots of people there, I'm sure. Good luck!

Miriam

The other thing to keep in mind is that trends change over time. It's good to talk with people in the biz when you can to see if you're still doing something that is passe. That's harder to know for those of us outside, but it's worth asking producers and agents who read your script.

The important thing to remember is that even if you have one or two format quirks that aren't perfect, as long as they don't distract from your story you're okay. The main point is to aim for a clean, easy read.

Miriam

Skimmed your post above, D.G., and it mostly looks good. I wanted to mention one tiny detail -- it's the Acco #6 that are the solid brass fasteners, not the #5. The brass-plated ones don't hold as well.

Miriam

Hmmm. . . since D.G. uses #7's, does that mean that his scripts are longer? And yours are shorter? Hey, as long as they don't fall apart when someone tries to read your script, that's what counts.

Miriam

Hey gang,

Want to share tips, stories, or suggestions regarding rewriting? I'm heading into a second rewrite on the script I've optioned, and it's going to be a whole lotta work, so any encouragement is appreciated!

I've found that most writers fall into two camps: 1) the ones who dread the blank page and love revision, or 2) the ones who love the blank page and dread revision. I definitely fall into the latter category, and I'm learning as I go . . .

Miriam

Jill,

Thanks, let's hope so! The road is long, that's for certain.

Marcel,

It's a thriller, which started out life more like a drama. We are changing lots of things, mostly heightening the thriller aspect, streamlining the story, strengthening the character arcs, opening up the story, just a few little details like that . . .

Miriam

WOW, Tenessee Williams! Cool! I was in the same room with him as a child -- my mother was an extra in a production of SUMMER AND SMOKE (the opera version) at the ST. Paul Opera many years ago. What a great experience you must have had, Johnny!

Marcel, I'm afraid I won't be sending out the script to anyone at this point, since it has been optioned and is not just my property any more. Plus, the only suggestions I really need to follow are the producer's at this point. I think I'd get confused having more than one person giving me feedback!

Yes, D.G., I am getting paid. I won't be buying a new car any time soon, however.

Miriam

Great suggestions, Ashley. The problem is that I often don't know how to make happen what he wants to happen; at least not right away. And I have a few hours here and there to write in between caring for two young kids home from school. Maybe that's the crux of my difficulty, not having the time to mull things over without someone interrupting my thoughts with a "Mom? Mom?" I am SO looking forward to Labor Day . . .

And yes, the original vision has been replaced with a much different one.

Miriam

Didi,

Your suggestions are all really good and I think get to the crux of what is hard for me. Keep in mind I'm not freaking out, nor do I need a psychiatrist, MARCEL, (I'd rather have a full-time babysitter at the moment -- for the kids, that is) it's just that it's not as easy for me as first draft writing. The producer wants me to redo a lot of the background work, like character bios, etc., now that the characters have changed to some degree, and it feels a lot like homework. I'm having to conquer what are usually right brain activities for me with a left brain mentality, which is hard.

I am like you, Didi, in that my mind needs to work on stuff when I'm not focused directly on it. I've been known to grab scraps of paper (like an ATM receipt) out of my purse while driving to jot down notes. My best ideas come to me while driving, washing dishes (there's that water thing), walking (like you, Ashley), or just about to go to sleep. It's definitely a subconscious mind thing. Which is tough when you are on a deadline, trying to please someone else, that's all. I wasn't saying that anyone needs to fix my difficulty or that I'm miserable. I'd rather be doing this than any other thing in the world, believe me. I just like hearing what works for other people, as Didi and Ashley have suggested, and what the process is like for other folks, as Bryan has talked about. Don't y'all go worrying about me, I'm fine!

But keep the stories coming about your experiences, that's what I'm interested in hearing about. It makes me feel like I'm not struggling alone in the wilderness.

Miriam

That's a very interesting idea about the dialogue, Paula.

Actually, once I get started on the actual WRITING of the rewrite, things move along pretty well. I think what's hard is that we do a lot of prep work before I launch into the rewrite, to be sure we've made decisions together, and that we both know what direction I'll be going. I think that's what I find tough. It's the laying groundwork, writing detailed outlines, character sketches, etc. By the time I'm done with that I'm just ITCHING to write real scenes! Maybe that's the point of it, I don't know . . . It's a strange process we go through.

Miriam

Yeah, Marcel, that's what I said I'm basically doing. Character bios, detailed outline in prose form (call it a treatment, it's essentially the same thing, several pages long), the works. For about the third time through, I believe.

Miriam

Tom,

You've definitely hit the nail on the head. The trouble is, the producer wants to see all the prep work first. Then, he approves or questions what I've worked on before I continue to the next step. So I just do the prep work. It's good for me, I'm sure . . .

Miriam

Faith,

Here's what I would predict would happen if you followed her advice and rewrote for this other company: even if they love it, they will ask you to rewrite it anyhow (hopefully with pay).

The question is: would they be interested in your script without the rewrite? How does she KNOW they will love it with her suggestions? How much faith do you have in her connections and her insight (no pun intended)? How much time and effort do you want to spend rewriting it yet again, only knowing that it will probably be re-rewritten?

It's a tough call, one that only you can make. I think you have to go with your gut on this one. But be prepared; no matter how much effort you spend, it will be rewritten again. I'd bet money on it.

Miriam

Not sure my kids heard you, D.G., you'll have to shout a little louder. Of course, you used the word "angels," so you must be talking about somebody else's kids.

Miriam

R. Sparks,

You've got a really good point there about criticism. After years of writer's workshops, I've finally learned just to listen, write down what the person says, and then say "thank you for the feedback." I almost never try to respond on the spot or defend my work. It always takes a while to think about it, let it sink in, and see if everybody else is telling me the same thing before I decide if I can use it.

By the way, can we get you a nickname or something (and no, you can pick it out, not D.G.)? I feel weird calling you R. Sparks. Sparky? No, that sounds like a seal.

Geesh it's getting late.

Linda, don't be scared by the colorful array of characters on the board. You can use them in your scripts later. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Miriam

I should never post this late. Orlanda, I'm so tired, when I skimmed through these posts, I thought you referred to "mouse jerky." MMmmmm.

Miriam

Okay, here's a possibly irrelevant question -- D.G. called you "Ms." Sparks, someone else called you Sparks Man, so which is it?

And Linda, since you haven't returned to comment on the bizarre range of responses to your query, I'm hoping we having scared you away. I must admit, when I first read the title of your thread, my response was: "Don't we all?"

Miriam

I think there are other threads on this subject, if you do a search. It is a good service, I have heard good reports about posting your script but haven't done it. At the very least, get yourself on the email newsletter list; that's how I hooked up with the producer who optioned my script.

Miriam

Actually, Craig, it's less of a Zen thing, and more of a Groucho Marx thing.

Miriam

I did have a request for a script from a producer who read my listing on "Winning Scripts" on this site.

Miriam

I'm a sucker for French Silk myself. Or Key Lime pie, but only if you eat it in the Floriday Keys . . .

Miriam

oops I meant Florida of course.

Paula,

I'd love to hear how what you learn affects how you write. Do keep us posted!

As for me, I'm doing all that prep work towards the 2nd rewrite of my script.

And stripping the ugly wallpaper in my office so I can paint it a fresh new color!

Miriam

Being currently involved in development on a script, I can really see how a script can lose its vision. I think that's what some of my problem is with the rewrite I'm doing; while it's making the script more marketable, more conventional, more digestible -- it's losing what was unique about the story in the first place. What I wrote was a dark, edgy, cynical story. It was unusual. I thought that's what the producer liked about it, he talked about making an original indie film. Now the reality of the financial backing must be hitting him, and he's trying to make it more predictable, conventional, and fit the mold of the Hollywood film. The passion I had for this story is slowly ebbing away in the process.

Saw AMELIE last night and thought to myself how that movie would never have gotten made in Hollywood. It's too unconventional and quirky, too . . . French. But it was wonderful. And I thought to myself: "Why can't everyone see why original and quirky is good?" Audiences are starved for something new and original. I am amazed that anyone at all goes to all the sequels, remakes, and rehashings of tv shows and cartoons. I'm waiting for them to make a film out of an old 60s tv commercial. It could happen.

Okay, there are some indie films that are unusual and quirky. Some are so unusual and quirky that they are almost too hard to watch, especially for audiences used to the same old thing.

And yes, I saw some movies I liked during the past year. But like you, Paula, I'm selective about what I go to see and therefore miss some of the real clunkers.

Okay, I'm ranting. I'll stop now.

Miriam

Well, the fact is, D.G., that I am now a writer for hire. I will take back my complaints; I posted in a moment of weakness. I have everything I desired: an option on a screenplay, and the opportunity to rewrite it in order to see it made. I imagine I just complained because I've got a lot of work to do and I know it. If I complain again, hit me with a pie, Andrea, or perhaps a tomato, Craig?

Miriam

The only road trip I've attempted with my children was with my oldest, a girl, when she was around two. I was pregnant with my son at the time. We were only going a short distance, to Wisconsin, so shouldn't be a problem, right?

Do you have any idea how hard it is to clean thrown up french fries off a car seat? The smell just never dies.

She had stomach flu the whole rest of the trip.

We haven't gone anywhere since. And probably never will.

Miriam

And if for some reason that doesn't work for you, you can always contact the Screen Actor's Guild by phone.

Miriam

Absolutely, fresh whipped cream. It's not that hard to make. Pumpkin would have to come in third for me. I only bake pies twice a year, and there's never any fear of it being too hot outside where I come from at those times!

If anyone wants my French Silk recipe, send me an email . . .

Miriam

The logline is one part of your query --usually right up front, where someone will notice it. The query letter can then also include a small amount of other pertinent info. like who your agent or attorney is; what awards you have one; if you've had a script sold or optioned; what important life experience you've had that makes you uniquely qualified to write this script (e.g. it's a medical mystery and you're a trained pathologist).

But keep it short.

Miriam

of course what awards you have "won"

Geez this thread is jinxed.

Yeah, don't forget your friends when you make it big.

And be sure to visit us next time you're near our planet.

May the Force be with you.

Miriam

That's very interesting -- And if I could tap into the romance writing cash cow, believe me, I would! But it's about as far from my personality as you can get.

Andrea's "pie-sonality" assessment was closer.

Andrea, my dad likes sour cream and raisin pie and can never get me to make it for him. What do you make of that pie?

Miriam

Not to mention -- GREAT PIE!!!

Miriam

The frig would be too obvious a place. Nobody's finding my Godiva's.

My dad's had women wait on him his whole life. He can make his own pie. (Like he ever would.) I only like baking things that I want to eat myself . . . It's too much damned work without a reward. My pie crusts are always from scratch. That's why I only do it twice a year. My husband loves deep dish apple; what does that say, Dr. Andrea?

Miriam

Andrea, did you ever see that movie with John Travolta as an angel (MICHAEL, wasn't it?) -- there's a song about pie in there.

Miriam P.S. I can't tell you where I hide my Godivas or I'll have to find a new place . . .

If it's what I think it is, it's not the most cinematic event in the world. Y'all might want to get the folks away from their computers before shooting any scenes, or it's not going to be much of a film.

Miriam

Virgo. Maybe that's why rewriting is difficult; we're supposed to be perfectionists. Clearly in my case that doesn't apply to housework. And yes, that means my birthday's coming up soon.

Happy Birthday all you Leos out there.

Miriam

I've never used the cap. letters for each; nobody's ever complained.

If I might make another tiny suggestion? Avoid the gerund form of the verbs (the "ing" form). Instead write: "Judy drinks at the bar" or "Fred sleeps soundly on his Lazy-Boy" instead of "drinking" and "sleeping."

Miriam

Do you at least have a contract with him that says when and how much you will be paid?

Miriam

Orlanda

You might want to go over to Done Deal (www.scriptsales.com) and read the column by April Hamilton -- I forget what she calls it. April was a client of Shelly's till recently. You might even be able to ask her questions on there.

Miriam

My dad was born in 1932. I just can't bring myself to make a pie that doesn't sound good to me (or my picky children). Now the deep dish apple, everyone in the entire family likes that. When I make the pumpkin I'm doing it for myself.

I gotta go eat. Pie for breakfast? Wish I had some . . .

Someone I know once made a mock apple pie with Ritz crackers and lemon juice.

Miriam

Okay, I liked your pie thing, Andrea, but here I've got to draw the line. I do NOT wear my underwear inside out! Nor do I like heavy cotton socks! I also very very rarely make pie or hide Godivas for myself, truth be told. I don't usually allow myself these hidden treats we now all think I have in every nook and cranny in the house.

However, I do allow myself some Breyer's mint chocolate chip ice cream from time to time, which no one else in the house likes (hence it won't disappear before I've had a chance to eat some).

Oh dear, now Andrea's going to head into ice cream analysis. . .

Miriam

I also went to the trouble to check out the site, before the fellow got ticked off that we all didn't know what a computer party was, and had a hard time visualizing it. I'd love to get a first hand report of the mood of an event like that. I had an image of a giant stadium, with 4-5,000 people of all ages (though I'm guessing mostly white guys ages 15-25 or so), all with plugged in lap tops doing -- what? Not drinking or drugs, as Tom pointed out. Probably not too many brawls or sex either, so not as rowdy as a rock concert.

We do need a context, a mood, and some idea what types of interpersonal relationships transpire at a thing like this. Otherwise, we'll just stick to writing what we know.

Miriam

We here in Minnesota take great comfort in knowing there are places that get snow earlier than we do . . . you betcha!

Miriam

Sorry to bust up your fantasy, Marcel, but "Julian" is a man's name (put the stress on the first syllable when you say it). "Julianne" would be the feminine version (my daughter's name). Am I also wrong, or is Merrit a man as well? I know that Merete is a woman's name, but not sure of the variants.

Miriam

I share a birthday with Sophia Loren. I only wish I looked more like her . . .

Miriam

Steven,

Orlanda has given you more than one hint now; she's female, and the female version of the name is Orlanda. With an "a" at the end instead of an "o." You are probably thinking of Orlando, the novel by Virginia Woolf, or the male actors Orlando Bloom or Orlando Jones, perhaps?

Miriam

Usually, I need to get off the internet if I want to get writing.

Here are two contradictory suggestions:

1) set an amount of time (or pages) to write every day, whether you feel like it or not. Just write a journal, random thoughts, if nothing else comes to you. Something may loosen up, and meanwhile, you're getting in the habit of writing.

2) get away from the computer and go for a walk. Or bike, or swim, or some other mindless, physical or non-verbal activity. For me, driving or playing the piano work well. Ideas seem to float into my head when I stop striving after them so hard.

Good luck.

Miriam

An ensemble film is trickier to pull off, since you have to give equal weight to many characters -- there's not just one to identify with. But when it's done well, it can be terrific. Think THE BIG CHILL or GOSFORD PARK. Hard to know who to nominate for "Best Actor" or "Best Supporting . . ." in films like those.

Miriam

STAR TREK -- the series may work that way as a whole, but most episodes have one "star" character whose point of view we follow throughout the story. Sometimes two. But they take turns in the different episodes. In the movies, the Captain is the main character. Uh-oh, my Trekkie colors are showing . . .

Miriam

Andrea,

I already mentioned THE BIG CHILL. BREAKFAST CLUB is a great example. I also thought of ST. ELMO'S FIRE. I don't agree that all films are ensemble pieces in the strict sense. Of course, loosely speaking, all films require actors to work together to make it happen. But I think your take on character arc clues into it pretty well. Also, think in terms of the stars themselves. Who gets top billing? Is it clear, or did they fight it out depending on who's got better box office draw? If it's not clear who the main character is (and it's more than two people in a close relationship), then it may be an ensemble. Altman films, as someone already stated, are often like this too, though one character may stand out as getting the most screen time.

Miriam

May the Force be with you, Randy! And don't leave me out when you're passing out cigars (can you make mine chocolate?)

Break a leg!

Mir

I looked up STALINGRAD in my Video Hound and it describes a German film made in 1994. It's possible there may be another, earlier one which is not on video, so not listed in this book. There are lots of other German war films listed. My favorite one is DAS BOOT.

Miriam

Since there are no guarantees in this business, whether you write a "trendy" movie or not, I only spend time writing what fascinates me. Writing is too difficult and time-consuming for me to spend it writing something I don't love. If writing to the trends floats your boat and gets you the success you want, more power to you. My second screenplay is very off-beat, not at all high concept, and many of my friends who read it didn't like it, but I've optioned it. I was told that it was original. So, as William Goldman says, nobody knows anything. Including me.

Miriam

I like the way you think, Orlanda!

Miriam

Tippi Hedren.

Craig,

Congrats! If you want suggestions re the logline, here's one: save the descriptive words for the protagonist. Call him a womanizing whatever it was you called him in the longer synopsis, and then ditch the "forest" town. I'm more interested in what type of guy the hero is than the type of town. And, if you could add an adjective for the boy, or his age, or something that would be revealing about him, that might pique my interest too.

And, not to be entirely business-minded, but the beauty of a script like yours is that its probably lower budget, and a small prodco might snap it up on that account. Good luck.

Miriam

Orlanda,

If you are well versed in the martial arts (Kung Fu in particular) could you email me please? Check my profile for email address.

Miriam

I think I gave this same (contradictory) advice to someone else on an earlier thread. Do one or both of these things:

1) Make yourself sit down to write for a certain length of time (it can be mercifully short) or a set number of pages (small) every day, even if all you write is "I have writer's block, I have writer's block, I hate this, I have writer's block." You could jog something loose, or at the very least get yourself into the habit of writing.

2) Get out into the world. Take a walk. Go somewhere you've never been, even if it's just that coffee shop you've always wanted to check out, or the hardware store or church in your neighborhood. Eavesdrop on other people's conversations. Strike up a conversation with someone in a safe environment. Read a different kind of book from what you usually read -- a biography, or poetry, whatever is not the norm for you. Don't beat yourself up for not writing. Live.

And here's another suggestion. Keep a journal. Try keeping a journal as if you're someone else, one of your characters, perhaps.

It will pass.

Miriam

Sorry to correct you, Randy, but since you were correcting, it's "Caribbean" not "Carribean."

Miriam

Orlanda,

You said in an email that you and I were in the same time zone, but I'm only two hours ahead of Hollywood. What gives? I'm on Central time, what's yours?

Miriam

If your reader has actually gotten to that point in your script, I don't think you should worry about which two words end your script or exactly where they are placed.

Miriam

Only shopping one around at the moment. Waiting for word from a producer. The one I optioned and am rewriting is sucking up all my time. Also shopping a young adult novel via my book agent.

Miriam

Tom,

You make an EXCELLENT point, which I've rarely heard voiced. It's one thing to get comments from people about what's wrong with your script, but know exactly how to fix it, there's the rub. And how to fix it in a way that pleases both you, the writer, and the potential readers/buyers of the script, ah, that would be worth gold . . . But often it's the writer who needs to slog through it and struggle and keep trying till it gets closer to the mark. The value of good feedback is when it gives you that perspective on the script you just don't have because you're too close to the material.

Miriam

Good luck, Randy! We'll all be rooting for you!

Miriam

Jerrol LeBaron's great service to writers, the email newsletter from his WritersScriptNetwork, came this morning with a message from some producer looking for the writer of a script named CLARA. I think they meant my script.

Before I'd even read the newsletter, I had two emails and two zmails (messages on Zoetrope) from internet acquaintances who I of course have never met, but who are familiar with my work. They wanted to be sure to let me know that my script was being sought.

I don't know about you, but I think it's a wonderful world where people who barely know each other, except through the printed word, will go to the trouble to help each other out. Thanks, internet friends, and be sure that I too will be looking out for your interests should the opportunity arise.

Thanks for brightening my day, and possibly helping to boost my career!

And thanks of course to Jerrol, who continues a service that makes it possible for writers living outside L.A. to have some access to the business.

Miriam

Just an update -- I've now had a total of seven emails regarding the posting. Thanks everyone -- you know who you are!

Miriam

Voice is not just about dialogue. Certainly your want your characters to each have their own individual voice, so they do not all sound the same.

A writer's voice is a more intangible thing. It is how the whole thing, narrative and dialogue, comes together to "speak" to the reader. What kind of feeling do you get reading this writer? Does the writer sound bold and sassy, or quiet and philosophical, or sharp and witty? It's the style, the sound of the language. It what makes you know when you are reading different authors, whatever the genre or format. Dickens has a different "voice" from George Eliot. William Goldman has a different "voice" than David Mamet.

A fresh voice is lively, interesting, and not derivative of others. It's often hard to detect except in the better screenwriters, because the format, structure, etc. are exacting and can distract from the writing style. Other writers let style overwhelm the structure, so that you feel you are reading a novel, but are not certain what would be happening on screen.

Now I'm rambling. Does that help?

Miriam

Nice way to put it. Another way to think about voice is how our personalities come through on this message board and in emails. I don't think any regulars would mix up a post of D.G.'s with one of Orlanda's, or Randy's with Andrea's. Our personalities shine through our writing, most often when we are not trying so hard, and make an impression which allows others to feel they "know" us via our words.

Miriam

Well, we'll see -- I have learned not to count my chickens before they have hatched. The "secret," if there is one, is just to persistently get your stuff out there as much as you can. I've queried so much, and sent so many script out, that I have no idea who this will be who's looking for the script. I'll keep you posted . . . And yes, you definitely have a voice. You don't even have to mention pie for me to know that it's you!

Miriam

Thanks, Colleen! I love seeing my name in print. Scroll down to "THE KINDNESS OF (PRACTICALLY) STRANGERS" -- it's now over a dozen people who have contacted me about this post. Thanks, everyone!!

Miriam

yes

I even had notes from a couple of people I've never heard of. Total now up to 15. Isn't that fabulous?

Miriam

Barbara,

I've heard nothing but good things about you over on Zoetrope, and now I know why! You're an inspiration to us all.

Miriam

FYI: I also had good experiences with the Hollywood Screenplay Discovery Awards, American Screenwriters' Association, and Monterey County Film Commission competitions.

It's good to check the report cards on this site for a broad base of people's experiences before entering any competition.

Miriam

No, nobody's heard from me, since I holed myself down in this cave to finish the rewrite. Actually, to finish the now 26-page outline for the rewrite, which first needs to be approved before I can go ahead and write.

And yes, Orlanda, I will be calling on you for some more Kung Fu advice! Any chance you'd be willing to read the fight scenes and/or the whole thing when I've got it done? I'm hoping to have a draft ready before Thanksgiving.

Meanwhile, got the first round of rejections for my young adult novel . . .

Later, Miriam

About rejections -- you gotta tell yourself, like a determined door-to-door salesman, "it's just one more 'no' on the way to the 'yes'!"

Miriam

Actually, Tom, since I've been writing Young Adult novels, I hang out on a couple of children's writing websites. I try to stay away from message boards as much as I can these days. I find it just sucks time away from my actual writing. But Moviebytes is one of the few I just can't kick the habit of . . .

But thanks for the suggestions. I may check them out in a moment of weakness. I did meet an interesting writer on www.writerbuddy.com, one of the few I've looked at. Funds for Writers is another one that has a great newsletter for those in other areas of writing.

Miriam

What is your protagonist's goal? What is in the way of that goal, and what is at stake -- what will happen if he fails? Is saving the universe? Saving himself? And when you say "embodiment of an alien god" I want to know more -- is the embodiment of this god a hooker? A little boy? A dog? A lunch lady? A weird looking CGI creature? Give us a hint. A long journey is okay as long as we know why he's going on it -- to get somewhere (think WIZARD OF OZ).

P.S. Keep it short.

Good luck, Miriam

PARENTHOOD. GOSFORD PARK. M*A*S*H. NASHVILLE. (lots of films directed by Altman, actually) ST. ELMO'S FIRE. THE BREAKFAST CLUB. THE FOUR SEASONS.

The great ones are great. But they're harder to sell. Stars want to be stars (and who can blame them?)

--Miriam

Also FAME.

Steve,

I don't have an agent for my screenplays, only for my books. I used an entertainment attorney to broker a deal with a producer. Good agents are very hard to get in screenwriting, unless you have several screenplays under your belt and a deal in the works.

Vincent,

How much is too much depends upon how much you've got and what you're likely to get out of it. Reading the report cards on this site about various contests should help you. Placing somewhere with one or more contest can get your foot in the door some places.

Miriam

Doug -- spell it "defense" unless you are selling it in Britain. Also, "series of unexplainable events" is too vague. Listen to the writers who are telling you that you need a specific goal and conflict in your logline. I'll make one up which may have nothing to do with you script but uses some of your language, and which has a clearly definable goal and conflict:

An unemployed engineer discovers that an alien god created life on earth, and he must infiltrate NASA command to communicate with the aliens to save Earth from certain destruction.

Or whatever your plot is . . .

Good luck.

Miriam

Jay,

I would definitely agree with you about simplicity. Yes, your story can be complex. But even if you succeed in selling your story (which I have), the producer will want you to be able to come up with a logline to help him/her pitch it to studios, stars, backers, etc. And, from experience, I GUARANTEE that if your story is overly complex or vague, the producer will want it simplified and clarified during rewrites.

Miriam

First of all, congrats, Tom! Not an easy gig.

Then, let's find another word for "seasoned;" frankly, it makes me sound old!

Video pitching, that's something I've never done. Have you got some acting buddies to give you tips on your physical demeanor, your voice, etc.? I would think for this audience you want to be energetic, upbeat, strong -- look straight into the camera, smile, vary your voice inflection. Write up a good pitch and practice it a bunch. If your writing is less than conversational, edit as you go. Let your passion for your project shine through above all else. If you know anyone in theater, advertising, etc., get them to watch and give you pointers. Take a look at the winner from the last round, that may be informative.

Good luck!

Miriam

I like it, Joan!

If you like the classics, like GRAND HOTEL ("People come, people go, nothing ever happens . . ."}, also try DINNER AT EIGHT.

Miriam

Okay, this is not great language, but this is the core of what you're saying, I think:

A grief stricken journalist with recurrent nightmares struggles to come to terms with the death of his wife. Only when he bonds with a severely disturbed and gifted autistic boy is he able to understand the meaning of his dreams and finally heal.

Miriam

Read the article, Orlanda, it's on this site and worth a quick look. He felt he was bastardizing Jack London, but he was technically bastardizing his own adaptation of Jack London.

NEWS FLASH, folks -- this is what happens. If you don't want to rewrite and rewrite and change your own scripts to please other people, you'd better keep your material at home, or win the lottery and finance, produce, and direct your scripts yourself. And it better be a big jackpot at the lottery, because films just get more and more expensive to make. And then there's distribution . . .

But hey, I'm in a cynical mood. On page 33 of my second rewrite, which is means that my mystery/drama has been completely morphed into a Kung Fu action thriller. But it might actually get made . . .

Miriam

I decided to sign up (hell, it's a cool looking website) and the screenplay and short film assigned to me to view both sounded so abysmal from their descriptions I'm afraid to check them out. I'm worried that a site like this that has been so highly publicized will mainly attract the folks who are perhaps a little less, shall we say, serious about their writing? Please tell me I'm wrong about that.

Miriam

Thanks for making me laugh, John!

Miriam

Write anyway.

Set yourself a certain time (even just a few minutes, with a timer) or time of day to write. Write anything that comes into your head. Work on a different kind of project, it doesn't matter. Just write.

If you want to get serious about writing, you need to learn how to write on demand, regardless of your mood or whether your muse went on vacation. And just writing, regardless of whether it is "inspired" or even good, will loosen up that flow. Don't evaluate or criticize. Just write.

Miriam

H.J.,

You ask some fair questions. I've never posted on WSN, but I did respond to one of the "looking for scripts" emails that Jerrol LeBaron sends out (free of charge, just for the asking) and I am now a working screenwriter as a result. I was one of the recent testimonials, I believe.

The reason you don't hear a lot about major studios is probably more to do with the process -- if you're a new writer, you are most likely to hook up first with a smaller or start-up production company, and then your script goes through the development process for a year or more. Then, if you're lucky, and they know what they're doing, the prodco might be able to get backing from a studio, in which case the whole scenario changes, both for the writer in terms of pay and the chances the film might really get made. So many of the deals you hear about that mention prodco's you may not have heard of (such as mine) will hopefully turn up at the big studios down the road. But as anyone knows who has been through this, it takes a long long time.

Of course there are exceptions to this process, and different ways it happens for different folks (such as those lucky enough to land an agent, or Julia Robert's cousin, or whatever . . .).

Does that help?

Mirian

Okay, it's late, I'm tired, I not only misplaced my apostrophe in Roberts' but managed to misspell my own name. Time to crash.

Miriam

The difficulty with getting reviewed by total strangers, with no credentials such as being a professional in the business, is that you have no idea what experience, level of intelligence, or knowledge they have. Or, as other writers above have pointed out, what axes they have to grind. Relying on opinions of people who may have never read screenplays other than their own, or have no idea what producers are looking for, will not help you. A better route might be to look for screenwriting classes in your area or online, or entering one of the many contests listed on this site that give feedback (check their "report cards" first to see how useful the feedback was to participants), or to hook up with individuals you connect with online on sites like these who may be willing to swap scripts with you, and will tell you what level of experience they have.

Good luck to you. It doesn't get any easier, I'm afraid, when you start submitting -- even when you have some successes under your belt, the pile of rejection letters keeps growing. You need to have faith in your own work if you want to get somewhere.

Miriam

Now, if it was snowboarders and cheerleaders against terrorists, you'd really have something worth watching . . .

Miriam

I had staged readings of my screenplays, through an organization in my town that is set up with professional actors, and it was a great tool for seeing how things work, whether dialogue read well, etc.

My question is -- how are you going to get industry types to show up (assuming you're in L.A., also)? That would be the hard part, I would think, unless you've got great connections. And if you already have those great connections, you may not need a reading . . .

Miriam

Richard,

Email me and I'll tell you what I know. My email address is in my profile.

Miriam

Most of us who write do so because we MUST, regardless of others' opinions or any related success. We have words and images in our brains and hearts that struggle to get out. This is what we do. If it brings us some measure of happiness, what more is there to ask of it?

P.S. there is no such thing as a "perfect" script. If there were, could rewrites exist ;-) ?

Miriam

Just finished the second rewrite of my script (that is under option) after weeks of struggling through it. May still tweak in the next couple of days, but very happy to see it reach the end!

It's all about persistence, folks! First rule of writing: "Adhere ass to chair."

Miriam

I would think "proprietress" (lose the "o" as in actor/actress)

Miriam

Johnny, what a thought! While you're living vicariously through me, would you mind popping in another load of laundry and cleaning out the cat litter? And don't forget to pick up the kids at 4:00. Ah, the glamorous life of the screenwriter . . .

Miriam

Johnny,

Damn! Now I've got a DOG, too? I'm always the last to know . . .

Actually the euphoria and relief come from exactly what you said -- learning that despite being busy and having so many demands on my time, I can still get writing done when I set my mind to it.

That feeling gets me going, and you know what? It's gotten me right into finishing up my next young adult novel that I was halfway in the middle of when I had to start rewriting the screenplay. Now that I know I can write on demand for someone else, I am demanding that I write for myself this time. It's a decision that gets made in your mind, like deciding to exercise or whatever else you think is important in your life.

Miriam

Mary Kay,

You can keep the dog. The cats don't like him anyhow.

Miriam

Doris,

Everyone on this site is a writer trying to get their work produced. I doubt very much that any producers are reading this message board looking for writers.

If you want exposure for your screenplay, learn how to write a good, SHORT logline, and post it on writersscriptnetwork or one of the other sites that have services like that, or start doing research about producers who make films similar to your story.

Above all, write a short, attention-grabbing description of your story that tells us your protagonist, what they what, what obstacles stand in their way, and how they reach (or try to reach) their goal. In 25 words.

Good luck.

Miriam

They should definitely do what Zoetrope does and give recognition to the best reviewers as well. That gives incentive to review thoughtfully.

Miriam

Sorry! I've been out SHOPPING!!!

Merry Christmas to all, and Happy New Year Too!

Miriam

I haven't read every post on this thread, but have you tried calling up SAG on the phone and asking who represents him? They will usually give out that info. if you sound polite and professional.

Miriam

Hey Rod,

I have a question for you if you have a sec; could you email me at MiriamQueensen@aol.com?

Thanks,

Miriam

Truly remarkable! I'm hearing from everyone except the person I asked for!!!

If anyone has Rod's email address, throw me a line, would you?

Miriam

Thanks for the laughs, everyone. And much disappointment about the pics (do you have a website, Steve?)

My main new years' resolution was to put my writing first and foremost in the day, above laundry, above dishes, before even checking the boards on Moviebytes. So what happens? My mother-in-law is in the hospital and my daughter is home from school. So all I have time for is the boards on Moviebytes. So much for resolutions . . .

Welcome, Crystal!

Miriam

I meant to say my daughter is home from school with a cold. See, I don't even have time to finish a sentence!

If you don't have an attorney or agent who can come with you, be sure not to agree on anything right then and there. Take notes, look thoughtful, and say you'll consult with your ____ (fill in the blank with agent, attorney, psychic reader, whatever) and get back to them as soon as you can. Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions, especially about what they see doing with the film; do they intend to take it to particular studios for backing, for example? Ask them about their other projects, past and current.

Good luck!

P.S. be nice to the receptionist.

Miriam

Try this: I've got a producer whose notes don't even agree with the reader he hired to also give me notes. Heading into rewrite #3 . . . Talk about your headaches.

Miriam

I would love to if it's possible, but there's no way I can plan that far ahead~! I'll let you know if I can make it around, say, September?

How about the Santa Fe conference in May; that's a really nice one, and great location.

Miriam

The bottom line is, whatever you do to it now, if someone sells it, they'll ask you to change it. Then maybe change it again. Then a studio will pick it up and they'll want more changes. You'll wonder why they wanted your script in the first place. How to guarantee you've got the version that will sell? You can't. As William Goldman says, nobody knows anything.

Bryan, this is rewrite number three for this producer. Suffice it to say it went through significant revision while I ran it through a workshop and two readings here (one an in-house table reading, one a staged reading with actors). Rewrite number two took several weeks, and was written only after 40 pages of prep work and a 26 page outline. It's making me really enjoy working on my novel . . .

Miriam

Of course I meant "if someone buys it." Pass that bottle around one more time, would you?

M.

You might want to consider the Santa Fe Screenwriting Conference in May. It's not far from you, the people are great, and it seems to be getting better every year. I went two years ago and just loved it.

Miriam

And the readers are the gatekeepers, so their opinions are worth a great deal.

Miriam

I'll take a stab at it, MK. I have always imagine that D.G. looks like Geoge Carlin, back when he had hair, tied back in a ponytail.

Am I close, D.G.?

Miriam

Of course, someone SAYING they look like Brad Pitt, and actually LOOKING like Brad Pitt, are two different things.

Miriam

If anyone attending Sundance could email me at MiriamQueensen@aol.com, I have a little assignment for you if you're willing (and no, it's not to get Bob's autograph).

Miriam

Pete,

You may as well just kill me now; you've called me "motherly!"

Orlanda, please tell Pete that I have not written a rated G script!

I don't know that I look motherly. I certainly hope not. Which mother, anyway? Lucy? Donna Reed? Mrs. Brady?Joan Crawford?

Well, Susan Sarandon, you've almost redeemed yourself . . .

Miriam P.S. I would guess that Pete and Natasha are one of those couples who are so in synch that they almost look alike . . .

My mother thinks I look like a young Tyne Daly, and my husband thinks I look like Myrna Loy. I think my mother's too critical and my husband's too nice. I'm too young to be Susan Sarandon, and too sarcastic to be June Cleaver. Plus I'm not much of a cook. Have I shattered your image yet, Pete?

I'll play a little more. I think Orlanda looks like Laura Dern, with dark hair, and Randy Roberts, you look like James Garner. And I mean the "Rockford" James Garner, not the "Space Cowboys" one.

Miriam

CLASSIC: LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (though you're right Gil, if DR. ZHIVAGO is ever on tv I just can't stop watching it, no matter what part it's on, and I've seen it a hundred times)

-- tied with NOTORIOUS

(is that cheating?)

MODERN: LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RINGS and THE TWO TOWERS

FUTURE: LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (How can it go wrong?)

Miriam

Well, bless you, Mary Kay, for missing me, and bless you, Marcel, for pointing out that I have a mind to rest!

I haven't yet started on rewrite #3, but I will shortly. I've actually been caring for a sick child at home, whose foremost quiet entertainment is playing "Neopets" on the internet. So I've barely had any time to check email, much less the boards.

I'm still here, and lurk occasionally. I only make comments when I feel I have something new and worthwhile to say.

Miriam

I'm not sure how tall Tyne Daly is, Orlanda. I'm 5'6". And Minnesota may have once been land of the Vikings, but Miriam is a Hebrew name. It's in the Bible (sister of Moses). I'm named for my Jewish grandmother, so get those Scandahoovian thoughts out of your head, they've nothing to do with my looks!

Miriam

Amit,

The script I've been writing and rewriting for a producer has both sex scenes and fights in it. I found the fights harder to write. You don't want to over direct, that is for sure, but you do want to give a sense of the mood, and what the attitude of the characters is during the love scenes(who's seducing who? tender or steamy? passionate or tentative?). Then leave room for the director to decide whose hand is where.

As for the fights, most films will use a fight choreographer, so you don't need to be too specific. I found it helpful to read some action scripts like DIE HARD, TOMORROW NEVER DIES, TERMINATOR, BLADE RUNNER for ideas. The key is to use short, zippy action verbs (smacks, whacks, slams, pounds) and keep your sentences short. This helps the feeling of a fast paced scene. I have also noticed that the hero gets beat up pretty bad before he comes back and gives the bad guy what's coming to him. The rhythm of the scene is important, and how it turns (we think he's losing, then he gets his strength back and trounces the guy). Also think in terms of interesting locations, props, situations (I know, everything's been done already, especially since Jackie Chan -- RUSH HOUR is another one to read). Give the flavor of the fight more than just a blow-by-blow. And don't forget to break up a long narrative section into smaller paragraphs, four lines tops, and some occasional dialogue.

Good luck.

Miriam

I was going to write about winning awards for my first script, or optioning my second, or finding an agent for my book, but the honest truth is this:

My greatest success is getting to the point where I am not upset by a rejection letter or not placing in a competition. I have gotten scores of rejections by now (I sometimes bring them to a writing class that I teach, if the students need a dose of reality) and it no longer feels like a reflection on me. It's a crowded marketplace, and you have to learn to keep improving and not take rejection too personally.

Miriam

Amit,

It occurred to me that there was a book that helped me a great deal:

William Martell's "Secrets of Action Screenwriting."

His website, where you can order the book, is www.scriptsecrets.com

Good luck.

Miriam

D.Jay,

I love that you said that.

I can write to silence, but I usually prefer music, usually non-verbal. In general I write to classical most of the time, a wide variety of classical music, or jazz. Jazz piano. But sometimes I just need to hear Sting or Talking Heads.

Miriam

I tend to write in short spurts. In fact, I'm trying to train myself just to jump in and write that way, when I have short bits of time. The demands on my time are just too great -- if I wrote for ten hours straight, the kids would be left crying at school, the laundry would never get done, and the folks at one of my other jobs would wonder what happened to me . . .

What I love is when my fingers just start going on the keyboard, and stuff comes out that I hadn't planned on, like it's got a life of its own (remember Ouija boards?)

Miriam

You're right -- you have to know your market audience. What is the rating going to be, and what is appropriate also for the genre of film you're writing?

In the thriller I wrote, the eroticism was an important component. I didn't hold back a bit. My parents and friends did read it, and while it may have given them pause (and perhaps changed their image of me, I don't know), I figure that if they're adults, they can handle it. But it's also fair to know who you're giving it to (if they are friends, not Hollywood readers) and to warn readers that the material is R-rated ahead of time.

Miriam

The hardest part for me, as I am finding out, is rewriting and rewriting and rewriting to other people's suggestions. And if you are good at that, you will succeed in this business. I am not certain if it's the place my talents will shine best in; I have been leaning more and more towards the novels I'm trying to market, and finding deep satisfaction there. That said, ask me again when I've finished rewrite #3.

Miriam

Jill,

You are remarkably perceptive.

Your story would be funny if only it weren't so true.

Yes, things are not feeling great at the moment. I'm very proud of my work on the novel I just completed, and secure in the knowledge that I won't have to rewrite it completely three times. Granted, there's no guarantee about publishing either, but it's still a very different experience.

For now, I'm still in the game. But the game isn't as fun as it could be, that's for sure.

Miriam

Thanks, everyone for the moral support. Randy, you know I'll send you a copy when it's published.

Miriam

Thanks again for the nice thoughts. Unfortunately, in this case I aspire to the standards of the person writing me the checks. And it is not myself I doubt so much as the efficacy of this process.

Miriam

It's a good sign that she bothered to get back to you and to give you positive feedback. In situations like that, it's good to say something like: "May I send you work in the future?" and "What kind of material are you currently looking for?" Then start a file of leads that you can use in the near future. But don't wait too long to use it -- memories are short and turnover is rampant.

I also keep the best rejections I've had -- even though they say "no," they are validating. It's wonderful to hear someone out there in the business, who has no altruistic reason to do so, tell you you're a good writer.

Miriam

I also asked Mr. Cayago to tell me what he had been doing, and this was part of his reply:

"I began my film career as an assistant at Lewis Chesler Prods. (STRANGERS, THE HITCH HIKER). Then got a job at The Cort/Madden Co. at Paramount eventually becoming the Story Editor for Robert Cort and David Madden. After that I worked for Paramount Pictures Motion Picture Group. Then did some freelance producing work for New Line (The Donna's video "Strutter" for DETROIT ROCK CITY), Polygram (Kim Richey's video "The Way It Never Was") and Pop.com. After that, I worked with Smith Entertainment, a production/management company -- until I decided to start my own shingle this year."

In other words, he's starting up. Whether he will be more successful remains to be seen. And if he is simply trying to sell a consulting service, I certainly don't condone that. He did read one of my scripts and asked to read something else, without trying to sell me anything (at least so far).

This is the tough part about starting out -- for us and for anyone else. Often, when you are new, the only people who will take the time and effort to read your stuff are people with little or no track record. More established folks in the business don't like taking chances, and we are wary of taking chances too. There's the Catch-22. I don't think I have the answer.

Miriam

I think Veena and Mary Kay are both right. They are generally not used anymore, except in shooting scripts (which MK's friend on Diag. Murd. was probably referring to), but use or non-use of something small like that will not, by itself, get your script chucked. It might, though, mark you as a rookie or outsider, if you don't follow current trends in spec format.

I don't know about you, but it sure saves me space not to use them, especially when space is at a premium.

Miriam

David,

I wasn't thinking about contests, I was thinking about sending scripts to agents and producers.

Doreen,

MK's experience is unique in that she's having to do the budget breakdown at this point. The producer I'm working with has not asked me to do one (at least not yet) and he has never asked me to put in the "continued's" that aren't currently there.

So, the upshot is that there is clearly no monolithic answer -- do what seems to work for your script, and then see what kind of response you get.

Story and character are the big things-- "continued's" are details. You want, above all, a clean, easy to read format. Details can always be changed.

Good luck,

Miriam

My advice? Don't make yourself write in chronological order. Since you've got an outline, start writing at a scene that pulls at you emotionally, whether it's at the end or the middle. And don't worry if you don't follow your outline exactly at this stage. Just let yourself write.

If you feel totally stuck, take a break. Go for a walk, write something else, read, dance, swim, anything! Sometimes you can get back into it when you've let your unconscious mind work on it for a while.

Good luck.

Miriam

Michael,

Well put! You just said it all.

Miriam

I'm not commenting specifically on your service, since it is new, but I have to disagree with your last statement about a magazine being more convenient than the internet.

Why would an agent or producer, who has stacks of scripts crowding their office, want to add another piece of printed material to their pile when they can just click on a website, which can be frequently updated? These days you can access the internet just about anywhere, at any time. And features such as being able to search a website quickly by script genre, etc. make websites easy to use.

Many of us have already found that Writer's ScriptNetwork (affectionately referred to as WSN on this site) has been consistently helping writers gain work (myself included), even for free many times via the e-newsletter. That site has been around long enough to garner lots of interest from writers, agents, and producers alike.

I think what skeptics might want to hear is what other advantages your service has besides just that it's a print magazine (which I argue is not a great advantage)?

What criteria do you use to screen submissions? Who is judging the submissions? What do you tell folks who don't pass the submissions process; do you give feedback?

Miriam

John's right.

Two words: Rewrite it.

If you want to sell it, that is. Even in the remote chance that it caught someone's interest in its current state, I guarantee it would be rewritten, if not by you, by someone else. I'm in the midst of rewrite #3 of an optioned screenplay, and most of the rewriting has focused on plot -- a clear inciting incident, clear midpoint, clear climax and resolution. Read McKee's STORY for help with plot structure if you haven't already.

Miriam

Maybe you should take a look at the script for ME, MYSELF, AND IRENE? Although his other personality had a different name, which probably helped avoid confusion . . .

There've got to be other films that do similar things -- anyone?

Miriam

May I put in a plug for the Santa Fe Screenwriting Conference? I just loved it; great location, great people, great speakers.

Miriam

The one I went to did not yet have a producer's seminar, so I can't speak to that, nor was pitching a part of it. They have added a lot of elements to the conference since I went. As for the mentoring, again, it may have changed since I went there, but the morning classes were all with one person (I took great classes with Joan Tewkesbury)and in the afternoon you could take whatever you wanted. Had great classes with Danny Rubin, Chris Vogler, and Chris DeVore.

Since the conference has changed each year, I recommend you just email them or call with any specific questions -- they're friendly folks, Larry Stouffer is the greatest, and they will fill in any details for you. Hope you get a chance to go -- I'd love to get back there but have been unable so far.

Miriam

For me, the most important recognition is from myself. For the first time this year (after writing on and off for most of my 40 years since the age of ten) when filling out the "occupation" blank on a form or answering the question "What do you do?" I finally answer, without hesitation, "I'm a writer."

Miriam

In LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, after Lawrence (Peter O'Toole) comes out of the Sinai Desert with a young boy, both parched with thirst, Lawrence takes the boy into the British officer's club to get him a drink. They are stared at by the officers as they walk by covered in dust, in full Arab headdress.

The boy scarfs the drink down, and Lawrence says to the bartender, "He likes your lemonade."

Miriam

I also like it in MOONSTRUCK, when Ronny (Nicolas Cage) tells Loretta (Cher) he loves her, she slaps him across the face and says, "Snap out of it!"

Miriam

I'd agree with most of those, Colin, but haven't you forgotten ADAPTATION? I can't help thinking it's going to get screenplay rather than MBFGW.

Miriam

Gil,

Please tell us your secret! How'd you do it?

I love hearing what everyone is doing. Great thread.

I just finished my second young adult novel and sent off to my book agent. Meanwhile, I continue to work on the third rewrite of the screenplay that was optioned last year.

It's spring break, which means -- yep -- snow in Minnesota, naturally, and kids at home, not to mention the fourth grade hamster.

Not to mention refinancing the mortgage.

And there's this idea I have for my next novel . . . I think it's for grownups this time . . .

Miriam

We need more chick flick quotes, ladies!

How about Rob Reiner's mother, in WHEN HARRY MET SALLY, after Meg Ryan's pretend orgasm in the diner: "I'll have what she's having."

Miriam

Thanks for all the support, Friends of Miriam Q.!

Things are going pretty well here; Keith still needs to go through another few rounds of chemo but can do so outpatient, which is great (you know how bad hospital food can be).

I've had to put my entirely life on hold, including writing, for now -- to focus on family, but hope that life will be back to normal for all of us in the fall.

Miriam

Actually, while I'm sure Grover has grounds for his beliefs, we have no complaints about the doctors, hospital or care that Keith has received. The drugs used have saved Keith's life. The nurses were wonderful and compassionate. The doctors have given us the best information they can and have been encouraging and supportive. Keith's prognosis is very good, so I have no complaints. Okay, maybe the hospital food could use some improvement . . .

Miriam

Bill,

I very much appreciate your posting about Mitchell, since we all felt shattered by his suicide last year. And I also appreciate that you don't want the postings to be about you, but I have to ask -- are you the same Bill who used to be named Bill Marks, with an "s"? I was confused when I saw your name.

Miriam

Since Marcel dropped my name I'd better put my two cents' worth into this discussion --

Yes, I've optioned a script to a prodco and they're now paying me to rewrite it, again and again. I'm on the third rewrite. Hopefully nearly done. Don't try to sell a screenplay if you're not prepared to rewrite it, even if you think it's perfect and they tell you they loved it.

Miriam

Wow, what I've been missing! The sparks are flying! I haven't laughed so hard in days, and some of you know how important that is to me right now.

Well, now it's my turn to be contentious. Koalas are not actually "bears" at all, they are marsupials.

So glad I got that off my chest.

Miriam

D. Jay, dude, you need to check that map. Formosa is the former name for Taiwan and has nothing to do with New Zealand. Look a little closer to Australia, south and east of it, actually. Formosa/Taiwan is way north and west of there.

Miriam