Message Board

Just a note, as I too am awaiting their decision. I was encouraged to enter by a good friend who was a semi-finalist earlier. She told me it took almost 4 months for them to reply. If you don't hear by mid-January, don't give up yet.

Pardon my first attempt at this, but I am fascinated in your opinions. I'm a new writer whose treatments have the interest of several "Hollywood" types with credentials. In my previous careers, I worked for a marketing group who did surveys that were aimed at both TV and film. I was not impressed. After spending the last 5 years in the film/TV system as a PA, security guard @ WB, background actor (OK, extra) and even a real supporting actor, I have a bit of a different approach to my career. I started writing in order to write good parts for myself, and found out how much I love writing. I may sell a few scripts (if I'm lucky), but they would be sold in order to produce my own scripts to film. My career choice is to become a filmaker starting with my own films. I am shooting a my first short this spring (digital 3 chip camera).

I have a different take on why the audience doesn't go to the movies as much as Hollywood wants. The audiences don't respond because the "target market" for Hollywood is teenage boys, ages 17-21. There used to be an old saying "Yes, but will it play in Peoria?". Hollywood doesn't care. They don't get it. My scripts are written for an audience forgotten and forsaken by Hollywood. I use my Mom and Dad as examples. The first film they saw in 20 years was "Driving Miss Daisy", and they have only seen one other since then. I also contribute to a BB full of "Western" afficiandos who constantly lament the loss of the "true Western". They are a tough bunch to please. Most of the groups I talk to hate the amount of sex, violence and vulgarity. They don't think Hollywood wants to market to them. In the old saying of finding target markets ,"find out what everyone else is doing, and don't do it."

With the success of indie films today, it's possible to skip the studio system, but there is always the "distribution" key factor.

I have a few ideas of surveying the exiting moviegoer, but it would take the cooperation of the studio, distributor and movie house. That's a tough sell.

Your comments are very enlightening and educational. I wish the best for all of you. I'm sure I can learn a lot from just the conversations on this BB. Thanks.

p.s. I apologize if I took up too much time and space.

Steve, my two cents worth. If you didn't have a passion for it, it wouldn't work. The key is the passion you feel. Ken and Ms. Ashley gave you great advice.

I am currently writing my first full length screeenplay, and it has a female lead who must be a great singer. How many female singers would love a great way to break into the biz? But I didn't write it to sell to them to begin with. I just had a great story with a few interesting characters, and now I have something to market to several female singers who are looking for a vehicle.

How many female actors comment on the lack of good roles for them? Notice that Jodie Foster and Sandra Bullock and many more name stars have their own production companies to do their own films? Write first, negotiate later. All of us need good stories developed. A win for you is a win for all writers if you are writing from the heart. If you were an actor I'd say "break a leg". I don't know what writers say to wish good luck to their peers. Consider it said. Now go do it. IMHO

Joe, Congrat's. I just got the word, too, but unfortunately it wasn't good news. Oh, well. It was my first competition. Guess I'll have to try something smaller and simplier. Joe, hope you continue to get good news about being a finalist.

I am considering entering my short film screenplay to the "Indie Screenplay Competition" before the end of the month deadline. Anyone have an opinion on this competition? I'm new to the game. Thanks, Randy

Lincoln, Congratulations. Maybe second time's a charm! Go for it, dude. Hope you make the finalist list. Best of luck!

I was visiting S. French bookstore in Studio City today, and saw a flyer for a writer named John Vorhaus and his booksigning and reception on Thurs., Jan 27, 7-9 pm. Anyone read his work? Would it be worth the trip to visit and meet him? Your input here would be appreciated. Thanks.

Terry, Congrats, and have a safe and successful trip "down under"! I've heard of McKee's book. Your advice is good enough for me. I'll pick it up tomorrow. As for me, I'll keep on writing and submitting, as per your sage advice. God Bless, Randy

HP, If I may be so bold, I have a suggestion. I come to my writer role by way of being an actor. As an actor, we are called to show up for an audition. We sign in on time, read the "sides" or "copy" and then rehearse our performance in a hallway with three other actors. We go in, slate for the camera, do our best, thank everyone involved and then leave. When I walk out the door, I forget about the audition. I go back to my life and look forward to the next audition. Every once in a while I get a call that says "you booked the part". After the part, I go back to auditioning, and repeat the process. When someone reads your script and they don't care for it, or it isn't what they are looking for, we need to know that that's just the way it is. If we persevere and continue the search for the right match, we can eventually succeed. My suggestion is the following: 1. submit your work 2. forget about it 3. submit to someone else 4. forget about it 5. repeat steps 1-4 Don't wait for the phone to ring. I hope you find success with your writing, so "persevere".

Laz,

Deb's suggestions are right on. Any original character is still owned by the Production Co.

As for anything based on a Clive Cussler novel ( my personal favorite fictional author), your friends will never have any luck.

Clive Cussler let them make "The Raiding of the Titanic", which the movie screwed up so badly, Clive Clussler swore off movies made from his books "forever", if not longer. I sure hate that, 'cause I'm a huge Dirk Pitt fan. Your friends should have done their "homework" as well as their research first.

We need to respect the original author's ideas and characters. They belong to the original author.

Why waste time writing a script an original author will ignore?

Contact the original Producer, who legally owns the rights to all characters of the original TV series with a pitch for a new "fresh breath of life", and then write the script if the give it a "green light".

Freudian slip. Make that "The RaiSing of the Titanic".

That was funny!

Sang, I did the research for my short, scheduled to shoot in June, but the choice of the camera really depends on what style of story you are doing as well as budget.

I decided not to buy one for a 4 day shoot. After research, I decided to use the Canon XL-1, which retails at local shops for $3,800.00, but then you need tripod, etc, good for another $300.00 or so. I'm shooting an action drama, so I need a glide cam and even a steady cam for a chase scene. Those are rentals, so I found a cameraman with camera for rent from $100.00-150.00 per day here in the Los Angeles area.

There are some one chip cameras out there (Canon, Sony, etc.) for about $1,900.00-2,200.00) which might do fine for your short.

I tried researching the web, but the info I got was by cameramen for cameramen, & I don't have the time to become one myself. If you live in LA or NY, you can probably hire a "for rent" camera and cameraman and save big bucks ($600.00 vs. $4,000.00 for me)

Currently the DV fav's are the Canon XL-1 (which looks exotic and actors respect it for it's professional look...i.o.words, the act better in front of it) and the Sony 1000, which looks almost like a tourist camera, so guerilla filmakers get by with it better for non-permitted shoots). These are both 3 chip (CCD) cameras, but maybe a one chip camera will do for you.

Try www.bealecorner.com/trv900/index/html

It's pretty technical, but you might be able to glean enough info for a decision.

Good luck on your shoot.

Sang, $1,000.00 won't cut it. In order to avoid a home video look, you'll need at least a one chip camera in the $1,700.00-$2,100.00 range. What city are you shooting in? Can you rent instead?

Also, answer the question of what kind of script you are shooting. This will have a direct bearing on what type of camera is appropriate for the shoot?

Writing and Producing are two entirely different hats. You need to define the parameters of the shoot, and that will take some research on your part. Perhaps you can partner with a local small production company or D.P. This is not a one horse business. Many talented people are required to shoot a quality film, be it feature or short.

Ask yourself an important question. "Will this expenditure for a high cost digital camera be used more than once, and are there alternative choices for accomplishing the same goal with less expense?"

Shooting a short film to show off your talents as a writer is a great idea. Using other talented professionals to accomplish a symbiotic goal is smart.

What are your goals, Sang?

Good luck, my friend.

Deb, The Canon XL-1 is the pick of the litter for most digital videographers because of it's versatility. I'm shooting my first short screenplay in June, and I considered buying one, but I found a cameraman with the XL-1 for $150.00/day (4 days).

I would not be surprised to see Sony and JVC try to catch up, but who knows. I thought the idea of interchangable lens was a good point, but in one of the seminars I attended, the DP's sort of Poo-pooed the notion. The digital 3 chip is still limited to video style filmaking, so the expensive shots done by the 16 or 35 mm cameras is still somewhat out of reach. Search the Recycler mag's for used Canon Xl-1. There are a few for sale from the indie types who tried to "make a movie", but didn't.

Determining the type of shoot you are going to do is important to determine what camera is right. The XL-1 is good for action and steadycam shots. The Sony 900 or 1000 is great for guerilla shooters, and some of the one chip's ($1,700.00-$2,100.00) will do fine for a static camera on a tripod with the moving around.

Good luck with your shoot.

Oops. I meant " camera withOUT moving around" for the one chip's by Sony, Canon and JVC.

Wish there was a way to edit a message after you hit the "add" button.

Deb,

In reference to the Sony 1000, a friend of mine, a film Director, prefers the Sony. It is an unobtrusive, smaller camera and preferred by guerilla style shooters because it looks like a tourist's home movie camera.

Again, the type of camera is determined by the style of "how" you want to shoot the script.

Good luck.

Al,

Find a Director or Producer/Director who will read the script and will collaborate with you. Find someone who shares the same goal of shooting the Film Noir approach.

It's hard to "sell" a short script. May as well be a part of the group who wants to shoot a great short script in order to get the attention of Film festivals, etc. Some short scripts can be developed into full length film scripts. The way to convince a Distributor or Producer to get involved is to show them the short film.

Don't be afraid to producce and direct it yourself. Good luck.

Berkus,

Good question. A little background first.

There are two basic formats for DV: Pal, a European format that shoots at 25 frames per second and NTSC, which we use here in the US and shoots at 29.6 frames per second. If you transfer to film, you will have to slow down to 24 frames per second.

"Zooming in" ( a video style shot) and "panning" will cause a "stobe" effect if you loose 6 frames per second, and the pan or zoom will "flicker". Long establishing shots or long dolly shots may have a similar effect, especially if you use a "film look" computer software program for the "film look". The colors bleed and look weird.

Determine what style of a "look" you are going for: static shots of two people talking vs. actions shots, etc. If you do your homework, you'll be fine.

Example: "Blair Witch Project", shot in video style, running through the forest scene. The jerky, up and down shots aren't too bad on a video monitor or Television screen. Go to film, and these jerky movements on the big screen are nauseating for the audience.

DV is here for some of us who don't want to option a good screenplay to a Producer who can't raise the funding. A good screenplay needs more of an audience than a few Producers, Agents or Managers. It needs to be "seen" on a "screen". In a screenplay, the key word is "screen", not play. If it's agood story and no one seems to notice, do it yourself.

Good luck, Berkus. Don't be afraid to use the title "Exec. Producer/Writer/Director".

Deb,

Thanks. I'll email you direct.

I'm a licensed Architect by original trade, and 6 years ago I decided to become an actor. I spent 1 1/2 years in the trenches as a "background actor" and earned my SAG card. I had some success, but like so many actors, couldn't find enough work to earn a living without the day job. I decided to write a story with a great part for me (not even starring) and when others read the treatment, they liked it a lot. One treatment lead to another, and I started studying how to write screenplays. I had the pleasure, and pain, of already writing a non-fiction book and self-published it, so writing has always been "fun".

The first screenplay to be shot is a 15 page short. I figure $8,000.00 will get it on video tape for the festivals and will be used to market myself to raise funds for the full length feature film the short can become. I have four other treatments in various stages that will become screenplays I intend to produce myself.

Doing research is apart of being a professional in any field. I enjoy being in front of the camera, and being behind it as the Director and Producer has it's good points, too. Writing good stories is the key to any good film. It all starts with a good story.

Finding a good camera is one part of the puzzle. Discovery can be fun, too,

D.G.,

Thank you so much. This is probably the most difficult project I have ever done, but I'm so passionate about it, I'm enjoying it, in spite of the lack of sleep. Your encouragement is of great value to me. I thank you, and wish for your success as well.

Randy

p.s. The comparison to Sly Stallone is well received :)

Laz,

Here's the email I got last night:

TO: All writers who received the NEWSFLASH email.

Please do not call or email Energy Entertainment.

All of their phone lines were tied up today. The purpose of the phone number was for writers who were mailing their scripts overnight. When you mail overnight it is best to have the phone number.

To reiterate: They just want GOOD scripts, well written and properly formatted. The genre, budget, location, etc., does not matter.

All replies from Energy Ent. will be through e-mail, please be sure to include your e-mail address in your cover letter. Allow 4-8 weeks for a reply. Phillip will advise you of their decision.

To get special attention, please inform Phillip Parte in your cover letter that Writers' Script Network referred you.

Please send your script/s to: Energy Entertainment C/O Phillip Parte 15433 Brownwood Place Bel Air, CA. 90077

Thank you very much for your cooperation. Sincerely, Jerrol

I have not requested any information from Jerrol LeBarron and do not have any queries out at this time. I'm sure it is a mass mailing.

RR

I had a phone conversation with a webmaster of an unamed Latino organization here in the Los Angeles area. I was seeking actors for auditions for my short film, "Heroes & Villains". I explained the premise (Cops and Gang members) who are protrayed in a realistic light, and the story has a very positive message to tenns about whether to join a gang or not, whether to get out of a gang or not, and whether to shoot or not in a confrontation. The story is very positive in scope, and many who have read it want to see the short film shown in schools as an entertaining way of teaching life lessons to teens.

This organization leader told me "just for your information, there are several Hispanic organizations who are going to address the problem of stereotyping Latinos as negative, and when we see such a screenplay, we will file a lawsuit against the Writer or Director or Producer" to stop them from making the film. It made no matter that the lead characters in the screenplay are Latino "Heroes" and shown in a positive light as to reality, but the fact that other characters are Latino gang members hurt the Latino community, and the lawsuit filed would be for "hurting the ethnicity of Hispanics". I reminded him that several Latino actors were being considered for the roles of Police Detectives and Officers, Public Defenders, Asst. District Atty's, etc. He said that if I wanted to put Latino actors in as good roles, that was fine, but if I showed a Latino gang member, they would follow through with their "warning". He also stated that if I wanted to go to the Asian community and use Asians for gang members, that would be ok. He was tired of seeing Latinos portrayed in a negative stereotype.

It makes no never mind that the true "heroes" in the film are a 16 year old Latino gang member who decides to get out of the gang, his younger brother who gets his Mother out of danger, and a 16 year old Latino gang member who makes the choice not to shoot in a hostage situation. There are other gang members who are shown in a bad light because they are gang members and "stereotypical".

Laz, I'd really like your take on this.

Pardon the smoke in this chat room. It's coming from my ears due to my blood boiling.

Laz,

Wow. When I asked for your take on this, I didn't mean to raise your blood pressure. I do appreciate your response, and I'm a bit more calmed down after my Latino actors who are already cast and my Latino Assoc. Producer and Asst. Director said basically the same as you, but not quite so eloquent.

My attorney called me back, and after hearing my blood pressure go up as well, he calmly said, "Randy, remember the Constitution and the First Amendment?" He also reminded me of Elizabeth Taylor's lawsuit to prevent her docudrama of her life lost in court as well. He said, "go make your movie. You've got better things to worry about."

Guess my nerves were rattled as a writer, that someone would threaten my First Amendment rights in order to ignore truth for good PR.

I also talked to a spokesperson for the WGA, who said, "I can't believe that some group might actually think we would even think about stiffling a writer's creativity!" He was almost at a loss for words.

O.K. Overreaction on my part. Sorry for the call to arms, troops. Damn sensitivity gets in the way of my common sense at times.

Laz, your response was well accepted, and I thank you for your words of emotions. You just earned another fan!

Thanks.

Randy

Laz & R. Steele and group,

It warms my lil' 'ol heart to see such talk. I have had many arguments about what sells in H'wood, and none of my scripts/treatments have the neeeded ingredients to interest a major studio. This is why the indie filmaker route is the only for me. There are, and will continue to be, other indie filmakers who will need your scripts and stories to film. Persevere and you will fine them.

My previous arguments involved the unseen target markets; those who are largely ignored by H'wood (a huge open market not being serviced). Current and previous target markets are teenage boys, ages 14-21. Perfect example of why most Americans don't go to the movies are my parents. They are in their late 70's, and in the last 35 years, they have only been to the movies twice. Once to see "Driving Miss Daisy" and the other time to see "Mr. Holland's Opus". They do not want the excessive sex, violence and vulgar language, so they are ignored by the big studios the majority of the time.

My arguments have included "your scripts won't sell", so they aren't for sale. I will be able to find funding outside the system, and either find brave distributors or use the newest "self distributing" techniques. The most important thing to concentrate on is a good story. Good actors and crew members are attracted to such "good stories" because they tire of the crap they have to work on in order to make a living.

Stay the course. You may not be able to see the future of film and television, but you have the power to create it. I pray you will persevere and will be inspired to "tell the good tale."

Wish there was a way to edit my post, so I could change "fine them" to "find them".

Then again, if you "find" the indie filmakers who want your scripts, I guess you could say you can "fine them" as well.

Could I just have committed a Fruedian slip? Cool.

John and D.G.,

Great points, both of you. D.G. is absolutely right; write for yourself and seek to entertain, enlighten or educate an audience. Some of those entertainees might be outside the target market profiles of mdi-management H'wood. If it does get made, and you feel good about it, then it is a win-win-win situation. (You, the audience and the Producer)

I'm 52, and I have to force myself to go to a film I'm not sure I want to see. I have yet to see "American Beauty" due to the violent ending described by friends. "Best screenplay"?

I know so many folks here in L.A., not to mention my friends in several other states, who are over 35 and don't really "get it" about the films offered today.

There is an old cliche' in business: "Find out what everybody else is doing, and don't do it." Guess that hasn't really got to anyone in "Show business" in H'wood yet.

Some great evaluations here, group. JJ, you must be right. I didn't know thoise two films were "chick flicks", because they weren't very well marketed. This is a charge that several big film stars are getting hot about. They do a film and then the distributor doesn't spend the bucks to market properly. Then they oversell another big one, like "M:I-2", who really doesn't need too much of a sell because Cruise is the big draw as well as knowing that John Woo can keep you on the edge with action scenes. Take half the marketing budget of "M:I-2" and it would easily market two chick ficks and make money on the three films instead of one.

Again, the answer is probably indie films. And, the answer for good scripts to these indie filmmakers is you guys. Most of these indie filmmakers aren't writers, or they got started by less than stellar writing. Now that they have made a successfull $100,000/00 movie, they can make a $1 million film, and they'll need better scripts. That's where Laz, Ashley, D.G., Sang, Beverly, Miriam, et. al. come in. Dump the agents who don't look to the future filmmakers. Market yourself on your own, or as a group of writers with some success who can offer these newbies good scripts for a piece of the action on the backend with just enough on the front end to pay the bills. When the indie filmmaker is successfull, so are you.

I know it sounds somewhat pie in the sky, but the alternative is where you are now, and is that good enough? Another cliche: "If you continue doing what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got."

I'm just confident enough to believe that my stories are worth telling without the excessives we mentioned, and I'm committed to do them myself. Even if you don't want to become a filmmaker yourself, there are filmmakers out there who need you good stories. Find some way to market yourself or a small group of diversified writers to these new filmmakers.

"I will not follow where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail". Muriel Strade

Steven,

I don't mind the sign-in. I have seen what this might become if no safeguards were used on other sites. Indiewire has no such controls and unscrupulos types come in and post Press releases for their newest film premiers 20-30 times and dominate the wire.

I haven't read the messages as much lately because a majority of the messages posted don't pertain to my particular career path. I share some things of interest with most of you, but not others. I had hoped to learn more from mentors such as you, Ashley, D.G., Laz, Miriam and several others, but ya'll are too busy trying to make a living at this tough biz to post messages to help us rookies learn about the biz. Perhaps Frederick could prompt more interesting initial messages and solicit your opinions.

I check this message board almost every day hoping to see what Ashley's opinion might be on a writing problem, or hearing about Laz's most recent run-in with an agency or Prodco where I might learn more about the biz. Most messages have been about "have you heard about blank screenwriting contest? When will they announce the winners?" I know this is important to a great number of you, but my interests lie in learning more about what to do about actual writing duties and discussing content or current trends of Prodcos.

Perhaps I need to look elsewhere for this type of info, but at least I have developed a great deal of respect for those of you previously mentioned and the tough career path you have to tread. In any event, I will watch and glean what I can for my one year duration, and put in two cents when it seems appropriate.

You all still have my respect.

Thanks.

Miriam,

You are welcome. I consider you, and the other aforementioned writers, to be "mentors" because you all have written intelligent posts and have some great experiences between you. Even MsAsh and Steven's tiffs are written well and just show passion amoungst (sp?) misunderstanding between all of us. The key word is passion, which Laz has in bucketfulls, and isn't afraid to show upon occasion. Not only is this admirable, it's required for a good writer, and many of you folks show professionalism in several ways.

Let me add my wish that this bulletin board come alive again. Learning from your peers is one of the most effective means of education. In college I tended to learn valuable keys to my profession (architecture) from my peers as much as my prof's. Even though my career path is different than most of yours, perhaps I can learn from your experiences, and maybe, just maybe, my experiences could be valuable to others as well.

Miriam, you or anyone else who wants to, can reach me @ randyrob@earthlink.net.

Thanks,

Randy

You guys,

And I thought ya'll were just napping. Nothing like a little jolt to get ya'll up and communicating. Steven, you may have re-awakend the giant. I hope so. Sure are a lot of good folks on this wire thread.

This is a tough business, and those of you in for the long haul can seek fellowship amoungst the ranks. Perhaps we will all work together in some form or fashion, but in any case, we will all need to share our similarities and respect our differences. I'm not one to wax philyslogical (that's if you're fom "Philly"), but there are times in life when one gathers around the fire to share and grow.

There may be an opportunity here for some of us, and I pray that we can all be the better for it.

Enough spiritual and psychological "stuff". Lets start some new threads to heat up the wire and share some questions and make some stuff happen!

"Now who can argue with that authentic western gibberish?" (Blazing Saddles)

Love 'ya,

Ran

Steven, MsAsh and Danial,

Now this is fun.

Steven, that's the best example of subtext this 'ol rookie ever saw. Any suggestions on which book to read has such good lessons? I still have the "Screenwriter's Bible" and Vogler, but would like a few suggestions.

Wait! If I read right, MsAsh's suggestion is great. I'll start a new thread asking that question.

Thanks, all.

Steven & Doug,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'l get Robt. McKee's book. Steven, let us know about Trottier's seminar. So far the lessons you have quoted have been "Duh. I knew that", so I hope it gets better than the proper position of the period.

To period or not to period...that should not be the question.

Steven, keep up the suggestions and great influence.

Randy

It is truly a sad day when you can compliment a Director and an actor, and then some "thimble minded writer" takes an affront to not mentioning the writer of the screenplay. People, get a grip, and a life.

If I, or Ashley, or anyone of us wants to compliment a participant of a film for their work, why should they be chastized for not mentioning ALL the Crew? Grow Up!

Ashley, I have yet to see the film , because I have been so busy, but I will see the film due to your glorious review. Maybe, only maybe, I will like the writing. But if I don't care for the writing as much, God forbid I compliment Ridley Scott for liking his directing the film.

Thin skinned people who are writer wannabees...don't quit your day job. Or at least read the life stories of other successful writers who aren't as thin skinned as you. They endured the overlooks and made enough money in their trade to persevere and got the recognition they desired, even without your watchdog diligence for them.

Get a grip. (not necessarily a crew position)

I'm impressed with the amount of hard work, research ya'll are doing and delighted in the amount of success it reaps.

My two cents: If you have a difficult time getting up in front of a group of people and delivering a dynamic pitch, please consider a group called "Toastmasters International". They will have a local group near you and are usually found in the white pages unter "Toastmasters". Their International headquarters is in Orange County, CA. I was a member for 11 years, and learned so much from this 75 year old organization that I once considered a career as a motivational speaker. This organization knows the basics and fine points of speaking and you can learn at your own speed.

I put this plug in for them to give them the credit they are due and to help the writers here to do an even better job of pitching.

I hope your words on the page are transformed to the voice and get the attention of the producers so you can make your films! (pardon the run-on sentence, but I get excited about success!)

Good luck!

Eric and Tracy,

If my post seemed harsh, so be it. Your posts were equally short sighted, and you have not read past the rhetoric to hear the message. It is all too clear that no matter if my "harsh" post or someone else's satirical jab at humor to make the point, didn't sink in. Again, if your attitudes are so short sighted that someone can thank a Director for his/her ability in a film, and you must correct the maker of the compliment to include whoever you deem equal, you are short sighted.

I am tough because I am tired of the political correctness of this attitude. If writers want the acclaim they deserve, they can do it without criticism of others. John Wells may have an opinion on "a film by...", but attacking the DGA might be a poor choice.

Eric, I am not judging you as a person, just your action. I do not know you or anything about you, but you must accept responsibility for your words/actions. My words were not meant to hurt your feelings. They were meant to point out some things that the other "less harsh" posts didn't seem to have an effect on your earlier posts.

It's a shame that MsAsh's original post was a compliment to a Director, and ends up with writers dissing each other. This doesn't speak well for us.

Eric and Tracy: I'm sorry if I have offended either of you. This was not my intent. This is why I did not directly address you until you chose to do so. You pushed a hot button and got the results. I cannot rescind my words, so I take full responsiblity for them and must stand by them.

Sang, Naw. You're right. I'll resist the temptation to continue. I'm through.

Enough said. All that can be said has been said. You're right. End of conversation for me.

Stephen, what was it you said last week about boring on the BB?

Randy

Interesting. When an actor goes in for a cold read, or even gets a few days to read and memorize the sides, we never are privy to all this background work you do. Many times the "Sides" are only a page or two long and do not have very much description of the character. We get a call from the agent saying "white male, 40+, veteran cop, conservative clothes."

If it isn't evident in the dialog, we make up our own story. We call is "backstory". We start with the previous scene and then work backwards to develop a three dimensional character based on merely what we read in the script so far. My characters, as an actor, fo through exact age, who we have relationships with, family, or lack thereof, job, co-workers, recreation, how we decorate our intimate spaces (such as private offices or bedrooms) and what we drive and eat regularly.

What happens if the actor develops and substantially different character, but nails the part? Do you use enough description in the opening scene for each character for the actor to read the character you have written?

As a director, I like to have each actor do a scene the way they perceive the character to be. If they are too far off, I will give them direction on how I need the character to react to the other actors.

Have any of you, as a writer, discussed these characters with the director selected to direct your work? If you so so much work developing the "backstory" of each character, does the Director or the actor ever get a chance to read this info and absorb it?

Randy

Doug,

Good points. I just spent the day at a Director's workshop, and we went over a lot of story structure, including character arc and scene arc's. As a matter of fact, I have to do a scene breakdown for a three camera shoot tomorrow morning on a scene from "Notting Hill" and I will rehearse the actors tomorrow morning as well. I must know the scence arc for both characters so I can make sure the actor's "get it".

I agree that actors should bring their own backstory to the table, but I wonder if the backstory information might be valuable to the Director, or should he/she have the same plan of develolpment? After today's session, the Director has a lot of work to do already. I'll let you know how tomorrow goes. I anticipate a lot of work, but also a lot of fun.

Doug, let me know what your actor friend's experience is like as well. I have had some acting roles, but I always did my own backstory without the aid by a director or writer. Maybe the more experienced actors had different experiences.

Randy

Miriam & group,

The Director's workshop I attended (read work my buns off) did a super job of teaching the script breakdown from the Director's POV.

We learned how to do a character arc for the protagonist, which my instructor, a real Director, uses by showing the actor cast for the role to explain the journey through the script. He also said that sometimes this character arc differs from how the writer saw it.

I learned a great deal about the "scene arc" for each scene as well. It was a great weekend.

By the way, suggested reading by the woekshop included McKee's "Story".

Randy

Laz, How do you put up with the B.S. of this part of the biz? I'm sorry, but I find this part of the "biz" to be so hap-hazzard and borderline unprofessional, I'm glad none of my scripts are for sale. The excuses for not being courteous enough to get back to the writer are truly lame. This is the part of "Hollywood" that deserves the bad name and reputation. These "Production" Co's are so inept as to understand a good script to be developed that I wonder why more credible folks don't see that to be a Production Co. , all you need is cash backing and a few people who can recognize potential. Laz, I know you have the fortitude and the desire to succeed. You have too much heart not to be talented enough to make it. Keep searching for the right group. Somehow, someway, you talented folks have got to find a Production Co. with enought guts and foresite to develop your good ideas. The biz is changing, and I hope you can find the newer prodco's who will be incisive enough to develop you ideas.

For the Prodco's who pass on all these ideas, you are too blind and jaded to see into the future. You are too dependent to rely on anything but your 30 year old MBA's to steer you past the "14 to 21 year old male" target markets. To hell with you and you ancient marketing plans. You are "has beens" and can keep your "Me, Myself and Irene" inane genre. Some of us believe in more than what you have to offer and require in a script and film to be.

Laz, keep on keepin' on!!! Sincerely, and I truly mean that, Randy Roberts

John, They called me after I sent an inquiry and pust the "hard sell" on me over the phone. I mistakenly gave them the credit card before I knew that $275 was WAY out of line for festival submittal. Sure, they only take 100 submittals, but at $275 per acceptance, thats a good chunk of change. And when do they tell you haven't been accepted and will 'return' the $275? I checked out the site and there is no mention of past winners and who they are or what happended to them. The correspondence says they have been around for four years, but where is their track record? Too many ? about them and not enough good answers. I hope I get my $75.00 deposit back. Randy

Tracy, I agree wholeheartedly. I check out MovieBytes upon occasion, but it has become disinteresting. The topics are about things I'm not interested in, and very little challenging topics for writers. I revently resigned from AZ due to disagreement with staff and the attacks on a couple of members by a few very profane "writers". It was an opportunity for politics to rear it's ugly head in a forum I'd hoped to learn and share with others writers. Instead I found a cadre of uppity wanna be's who look down their noses at anyone different from them, some of whom are staff and should be asking for coller heads to prevail instead of using profanity to describe and accuse members. I used to learn a lot from the likes of Steven, Sang, Laz, Miriam and Ashley here. Since I'm not interested in agents, managers, or screenwriting contests, this site has become less interesting. I don't know where else to go, but I'm currently looking. Perhaps a webmaster might initiate current and diverse topics. I'm sure the most interesting topics come from members, but most of us are so busy creating a career, we don't have as much time to think up new topics. I still respect the writers on this site I have come to admire and respect, and thank them for their contributuion.

As for those who have joined only to hype their contests and consulting co's by using nom de plumes, we are perceptive enough to figure you out.

Frederick, Ms. Ash asked you a long time ago for the ability to edit a post, but still I get stuck with typing "revently" instead of editing to "recently" and "coller" instead of "cooler". Is adding an edit window so difficult? Isn't your software co. helpful in adding this feature?

"Jeesh", MS. Ash.,

If I have a complaint that's valid to me, it's "whining" to you? Who put a burr under your saddle? Unlike other sites, we PAY to be here, we have a right to complain about what is or isn't going on.

We used to have more interesting topics here, and this isn't the first time this subject has been brought up. I'm just lamenting the loss of those intersting topics, without the profane accusations on other sites.

Frederick, I'm glad you are continuing the progress of the website, but your priorities are different than mine and this is your site.

I hope we can find good topics to discuss. My threads don't seem to go long either, because my career (as an Indie Filmmaker) is so different from the writer's path. The basics of writing and fine tuning of the story are the same for me as the writer's, but I can't add anything about agents or contests, etc.

Randy

Hi, Miriam,

It was great to hear from you. You have a great voice attached to such a great touch on the keys. I got to spend a short time on the phone with you (thank God for cell phones), and I want to hear all about your great week and your meetings that will be of great interest and enthusiasm to all writers gathered around their monitors.

I had the pleasure of introducing Miriam to a very good friend of mine who is an Entertainment attorney, whom she had lunch with one day. I hope it will prove to be of value to both of you, and at least a good education for you, Miriam.

I want to hear how your pitch and your meeting went with one of the major studios. This is the stuff dreams are made of. I don't mind if you post the results here for all to see, if it won't embarass you too much. It could be a great boost for all here to hear of such progress, and hopefully all who read it will be inspired to seek out such progress and success as well.

I look forward to hearing about your trip, my friend.

Your "fan", Randy

Todd,

Are you suggesting we should be cutthroat all the time because bad times are coming next year? Got bad news for you, sir. The bad times and hard times make for people helping each other. If you are suggesting to suspend at any time, especially during the hard times to come, all humane treatment of your peers, then you and I are cut from different character cloth.

I spoke to my agent today, who is closing down 75% of his agency due to the actor's strike, but he's not wallowing in grief. He's moving on to other horizons due to the changing of the way we do business as actors. The hard times will come, but if the business isn't prepared for change, everyone who clings to the "old ways" will be in trouble.

The hard times show you who your friends are, and who the pro's are that you want to do business with in this unclear future. Treating people who are your peers as a "cutthroat" may get you satisfaction in the short run at the expense of the long run. ("Forgive your enemies; just remember their names", JFK) Trouble with some of "show biz" professionals is that they do conduct all of their business cutthroat, and they don't know any different. Guess what...you don't have to do business with them.

Perhaps preparing for the uncertain future might be wise. Selling the big mortgage for one more affordable...but then, you might have to adjust your lifestyle.

We have more choices than what you suggest.

"I took the road less traveled, and that has made all the difference". (a tip of the hat to Robert Frost)

Sang,

I want to add my congratulations as well, but what I really want to hear is that this will get you a contract to well the script or at least open up an opportunity for another screenplay to be developed for someone who recognizes your talent.

In other words, I'd like to see you actually make a living at this crazy biz.

Best of luck. Keep the wheel turning in your favor!

Randy

Sang,

I want to add my congratulations as well, but what I really want to hear is that this will get you a contract to sell the script. At least it could open up an opportunity for another screenplay to be developed for someone who recognizes your talent.

In other words, I'd like to see you actually make a living at this crazy biz.

Best of luck. Keep the wheel turning in your favor!

Randy

(This is the edited version of the preceeding)

Tracy,

You have some homework to do before you can answer that question. What kind of film will dictate the type of Digital Video camera to use...of course after you determine costs per day.

One of the most popular cameras to RENT is the Canon XL-1, depending on where you live. In L.A., the XL-1 rents for between $150-200/day, depending on the package...but someone has to shoot it, and it is a somewhat complex camera. I'm getting a camera and camerman for $300/day because I'm shooting on the weekends.

If your action is fairly static, you might get by with a lesser expensive Canon GL-1 or the Sony. Some costs are $1,800-2,500 to buy.

Good luck.

Randy

Ms. Ash,

You're good at making things up. Guess that's why you're a writer.

Tracy,

The type of action might dictate the type of camera. For instance, a guerilla style shoot on a location without permits might best use the Sony 3 chip, which looks like a small and insignificant home movie recorder, but it is actually a great mini-DV that does great work.

A serious scene that takes some walking with the camera and a conversation between two characters might be best accomplished with the Canon XL-1. Sometimes the GL-1 is a good choice, and far less expensive, but the XL-1 is an exotic looking camera that actors respect because it looks like a real "film type" camera. Some actors don't treat the Sony or Panasonic DV cameras very seriously because the look like a "home movie" camera used by an amateur.

Any action scenes (such as my chase scene on foot) needs the Canon XL-1 on a Glide-cam, steady-cam or Hollywood Lite to keep the action from the "Blair Witch" up-and-down, make me sick on the big screen, jiggles. Yes, my 24 minute short has a foot chase scene and car chase in it.

Research the camera by telling a competent salesman what type of shooting you'll be doing. You can also research the net for specific types of cameras as well.

Good luck,

Randy

Tracy,

I depends on where you live. Renting in L.A. or N.Y. is easy. Renting in somewhere there isn't much show biz in the local biz might be tough. Rentals in L.A. go from $100.00/day to $250/day depending on how much extra stuff you need, such as filters, steadycam, etc.

Go back to the previous message and determine the type of shoot you are planning and then go to a rental house for "info only". Let them know you are a first timer and "be gentle with me". I suggest that if you are going to shoot your first screenplay, join an organization that may give you some assistance, such as Filmmaker's Alliance or IFP/West or East. Don't try this all by yourself.

Good luck,

Randy

True to the Hollywood legend, there are a lot of self-serving low lifes who may or may not have talent, & we have been the fodder for the blast of P.R., be it negative or what not.

Sondra, you are on the wrong website. Self acclimation for you, or the true identity, for whom some of us don't care, is wasted on the likes of us who struggle and succeed. Our successes are soon noted by our collegues (sp?), and not from ravings high atop ivory towers made of clay.

You, however, may rant and rave to your hearts content. We do not congratulate, admire or even pity such tripe. Upon occasion we may take 2-3 minutes to dismiss your crass self-acknowledgment, full knowing that you are neither talented, nor admirable, nor even a Sondra. We don't really care.

Enough time has been wasted on this poor subject matter. I have more important matters to attend to. The cat litter must be changed, and it is far more important than this exchange.

Deb,

Consider it added to my list of must reading material.. Sounds good, so I rely on your talent to make it excellent.

Good writing.

Randy

...because I am going on a much needed vacation for a week. Not to worry, it is a "writing vacation". I'm taking my laptop and committing to writing the full feature length screenplay for my short, "Heroes & Villains".

I don't know if I will be able to log on with my slow laptop, but just continue to market, schmooze, research and above all else...write! I will look forward to seeing your posts next week.

God Bless. (hope this wish is taken at face value)

Randy

Rafael,

You are absolutely right. "Walla-Walla" is the old term used and I have heard the "peas and beans" line from some extras who are set in their ways.

I spent 18 months as an extra, or "background actor" as they want to be known today, and after 7-8 takes, these inane terms grow old, and we start miming real words in order for the other extra to try and guess what we are saying. When we hear cut, the volume goes up, and we can really hear the conversation.

The real key is to keep it real and not be noticed and without hearing anything on the boom mike.

If you want a real education on the process, be an extra on a feature film or sitcom and observe the goings on. The pay is poor, sometimes the food is good, most of the extras are strange, but the experience is worthwhile.

Randy

hey, Rafael,

You're right. It was a grind, but sometimes fun. Where else can you sit next to John Travolta for 30 minutes and discuss just guy stuff? Where else can you go to craft services on a MOW, meet a gorgeous 50+ famous actress and talk about her first co-starring role with Frank Sinatra and flatter her by remembering it.

Where else can you quietly stand behind John Woo during a scene he is directing and watch the monitor while he reviews the scene with Travolta and hear them talk about ways to make it better? It was a great learning experience.

I only spent 18 months as an extra due to the fact that I hired a "call-in service" @ $55.00/month. They got me work 5-7 days a week on everything from commercials to MOW's, features and even a regular on a season sitcom. I was glad to walk away from it after 18 months, but I will admit that it was probably one of the most productive ways to learn the biz on the set.

Any writer's got time on their hands and need to learn more about the biz? Take you books, your note pad and earn minimum wage while learning more about your biz.

Alice,

Yes. Write the interesting short and use it as a calling card. I have a good friend who is a young director. He asked me to play a cop (typecast) for a short he wrote 18 months ago. It got him several directing jobs, and his feature film script is now being seriously considered due to the fact that people have seen the short and give him the "foot in the door".

I have developed my short to such a degree that I have cast 90% of the cast and have developed a distribution agreement with an organization to offer the video on their web to their 1500 members.

The short is the calling card. It is more difficult to write a good short that tells the story than a 90 minute script, but it is the calling card.

"Go, therefore, and write the future". Can't quote the author, but it sounds good anyway.

Randy

Lynette,

Alll these suggestions are great. You should consider yourself lucky to get such good advice. I did not have such after my first "completion", and now I have learned to add dates to the cover sheet so I know which is the "latest rewrite", and the onw I'm most proud. Leaving the ego somewhere behind during the rewite stage is sometimes difficult, but when you start reading the revisions, and the story comes back to life again, it's exciting. Your characters are once again rejuvinated and the "sing" their dialog with better resolve.

Now I feel that the first completion is a milestone, (the reward is a great idea Steven) and it's time to get feedback from "whomever" and get excited once again about the story.

I'm in pre-production for my first short digital video, and my first completed script, which has been rewritten many times over the last year. Now I'm going to start the new script of the Treatment that drove the retired Disney Exec. nuts last year. It's time to start anew, and the anticipation of new characters and new experiences for them is great.

Again, these suggestions from your peers is invaluable. Hold their suggestions in high regard. Best of luck.

Randy

Lynette,

A treatment is a narrative, usually 5 pages in length, that tells the story without (or very little) dialog. It can be used to pitch someone with or without you being there.

A treatment needs to be registered, just like the screenplay, and costs $20.00 @ WGA, just like a screenplay.

I ususally start with a treatment, and many times do it in longhand. The ability for the story to "flow" is a huge advantage. I gave the Treatment to a friend who is an accomplished author and she made great suggestions on the strucure portion. Once it was in better shape, I showed it to several people in the biz, and they encouraged me to finish the screenplay.

Great tool, and communication device.

Yes! "Flawless".

I remember some people ranting over their favorite scripts, and I have nothing but praise for "Almost Famous".

Nothing "almost" about this one. Great story, great dialog, funny stuff, poignant (sp?), great casting and good tunes.

Billy Cruddup is super, Kate Hudson(Goldie and Kurt's daughter) is perfect and Patrick Fugit is destined to become a great actor, 'cause he's great in this film.

I have not enjoyed a film this much in quite a while. My highest recommendations to everyone to see it.

Kudos to Sang and Steven.

Good work guys. All that hard work now paying off.

Tracy,

Three considerations:

1. What is the purpose of the short? If you want to submit to film festivals to show that you can write and direct good stuff, try to hit between 15 and 30 minutes. Most festivals won't accept shorts for less than 15 minutes.

2. What is your budget? Longer film, more money spent.

3. Can you tell a complete story in how many minutes? It's too short if it hasn't make a complete thought and solved the crisis/problem.

If this short is a calling card to show off a good story so you can get more work and financial support, just do it in enough time to do a great job.

My short started @ 34 pages, cut back to 17 pages and grew back to 24 pages during the re-writes. God only knows how long the final cut will be after the shoot in Feb.

Tracy,

"Endless Source of Information"? Sounds like a moniker to avoid.

O.K. Let's say you shoot digital on an NTSC format. You can edit on a PC or Mac with a couple of different editing systems. Many cinematographers who have thie own cameras (such as the Canon XL-1) also have a PC edit bay. That's perhaps the most inexpensive without any fancy special effects. AVID is also possible because there are so many AVID machines and editors who know how to use them. Sometimes the AVID is available on off hours (nights and weekends) at a cheaper rate. I don't know where you live, so the availablity is a consideration.

Write the script first. Determine the type of camera and crew necessary and then look for the talent.

Read a couple of good books on production:

Tracy,

"Endless Source of Information"? Sounds like a moniker to avoid.

O.K. Let's say you shoot digital on an NTSC format. You can edit on a PC or Mac with a couple of different editing systems. Many cinematographers who have thie own cameras (such as the Canon XL-1) also have a PC edit bay. That's perhaps the most inexpensive without any fancy special effects. AVID is also possible because there are so many AVID machines and editors who know how to use them. Sometimes the AVID is available on off hours (nights and weekends) at a cheaper rate. I don't know where you live, so the availablity is a consideration.

Write the script first. Determine the type of camera and crew necessary and then look for the talent.

Read a couple of good books on production:

IFP West "Independent Filmmaker's Manual", "Film Production, the complete guide to Independent filmmaking" by Greg Merritt, "The independent Film and Videomaker's Guide", by Micahel Wiese, and others.

Good luck!

Randy

Sondra,

Good questions. NTSC is the American format and PAL is the European format. NTSC is shot at 29.6 frames per second and PAL is shot at 25 frames per second. 35 mm film is 24 frames per second, so when you do a film transfer, the 25 fps to 24 fps is accomplished by slowing the PAL video by 4%, which is indeciferable to the human ear and accomplishes the transfer. The NTSC format looses almost 6 frames per second, so if you do a "pan" with the camera, the loss of 6 fps means a "flickering effect" and the shot looses it's effectiveness. Consequently, an action script should not be shot on NTSC. A static script (without much action sequence) can be effective transferred fron NTSC to 35 mm without any noticable effects.

NTSC is much less expensive that PAL to shoot. The PAL camera is more expensive in the first place and the film is also more expensive.

If your digitial video doesn't need to be transfered to 35 mm, then use NTSC. If you intend to transfer to 35 mm and you don't have any action or "pan" type shots, use PAL for a more initial cost, but effective cost later at the film transfer.

Research up front saves money and stress later. Knowing "how" to shoot your video is as important as what your characters dialog is! If you, as a writer, know what these parameters are up front, you can properly "choose" a Producer and Director to shoot your script.

Hope this helps.

Randy

Sondra,

Such a long answer to the first question, I forgot the second question.

It's not the pc vs. Mac platform. It's the software.

Mac is a graphic oriented machine and the pc is the 111 and ooo format (numerical). Many computer geeks will argue for hours about who is better. It's the software that blends the "video capture" and music and titles that count. There are reasonable software programs for both machines. It's really a question of "who is the editor" that really counts. What can the human behind the machine do for your video.

Good luck.

Randy

Sondra,

If you went to any basic film school at a University, you probably didn't get any of this because most of the "film schools" in a college or University setting isn't very atuned to the real world and are behind the real world because by the time you submit your curricula to the "powers that be" in a University, technology has passed you by. (This from someone who taught college level Architecture in the 80's for four years).

"Video?

Are you talking about shooting on video and transferring to film?

Or. .

Simply, just shooting on video? "

Your first question asked about NTSC and PAL, both of which are digital video formats and thus, use a digital video camera. If you need to show the end result on a 35 mm format, which uses a more expensive film camera, you must transfer to film. This was the mini'lecture on NTSC and PAL.

Just shooting on digital video is if you don't need to tansfer to film because you don't intend to show your wares on the big screen theater. Some film festivals now use the digital video projectors to show DV's and all festivals show the 16mm or 35 mm FILM shots in the theaters. The regular theater down the street uses the 35 mm film format.

"What would this cost for a two-day shoot?"

"Oh, and how did you shoot around locations that were businesses? "

Video costs are about $150-300/day for the camera and cameraman for us rookies, if the cameraman is not otherwise busy. Video stock is about $12.00-15.00/hour tape to purchase.

A 35 mm film camera will cost 2-5 times more per day, and more for the cameraman as well. Film stock is also much more expensive than digital video stock.

Shooting at private locations does not require a permit if you aren't shooting on the sidewalk or driving down the street. Let's put it this way...you bother the public, you must have a permit and hire Police Officers for traffic control. Doing this without permits is called "Guerilla style". " I'm sure you know more than the average writer in the behind the camera angle, but where can a dummy go with limited know-how?"

You can go to an open orientation for IFP/West in Westwood and meet "Filmmakers-to-be", and search out someone to read your script for the shoot. You'll need to partner with someone who isn't a writer and needs good material to shoot. (Use the internet to advertise, say on Zoetrope Director's Building or on any of the many indie Filmmaker's sites) Someone needs to produce this short/feature, and you need to decide what is your reason for doing it? Is it to expose your work? If so, the best, fastest, cheapest route is a short script that will peak interest in a film festival audience and then later use it as your calling card.

The beginning of a good film/video may start with a good script, but it'll never see the "dark of the theater" if all the other people (cast & crew) aren't a part of the project. Once you have "property" (script), you'll need to find the Producer and Director. One step at a time.

A couple of good research books: "Independent Filmmaker"s Manual" by LaLoggia & Wurmfeld (IFP/West) and "Film Production, The Complete Uncensored Guide to Independent Filmmaking" by Greg Merritt.

Filmmaking is teamwork.

Good luck.

Sondra,

I know that Tracy and you asked similar but different questions. Did you think the answers were the same? Sorry I spent so much time trying to precisely answer you questions.

I don't know about your Mac DVD short course. I'm not aware of any CD's used in a Digital video camera. Sony has a mini- digital camera format that uses a simple 3 1/2 " disc to plug into your computer, but I wasn't aware of any in video format. At this point in time I would question the quality of the lens and camera. Perhaps they will develop one...I just haven't seen it.

I think I've just wasted a lot of time here. Sorry to take up so much space answering questions. Guess it wasn't appreciated as much as I'd hoped.

I'm concerned about ya'll (translated to "you guys" for the easternmost). Is this really a fair contest, or is it just a great opportunity for the newly crowned "fair haired" boys of H'wood? I know their "rise to success" story here, but I question the paraneters for determining the "winner".

If the "loosers" are to go into the deep six, then the competition is a looser as well.

There are lot of talented newcomers who are interested in thnis contest. When you do not win this "contest", do not dispair. The parameters of this "contest" are questionable, and they sound like they were made by some group at CAA or some other "high end agency", who don't care about anything but the bottom line for THEM, not you. When you do not win this contest, thrust a finger (which one, your choice) into the air, and persevere. To quote a famous English orator, "

I'm concerned about ya'll (translated to "you guys" for the easternmost). Is this really a fair contest, or is it just a great opportunity for the newly crowned "fair haired" boys of H'wood? I know their "rise to success" story here, but I question the paraneters for determining the "winner".

If the "loosers" are to go into the deep six, then the competition is a looser as well.

There are lot of talented newcomers who are interested in thnis contest. When you do not win this "contest", do not dispair. The parameters of this "contest" are questionable, and they sound like they were made by some group at CAA or some other "high end agency", who don't care about anything but the bottom line for THEM, not you. When you do not win this contest, thrust a finger (which one, your choice) into the air, and persevere. To quote a famous English orator, "

I'm concerned about ya'll (translated to "you guys" for the easternmost). Is this really a fair contest, or is it just a great opportunity for the newly crowned "fair haired" boys of H'wood? I know their "rise to success" story here, but I question the paraneters for determining the "winner".

If the "loosers" are to go into the deep six, then the competition is a looser as well.

There are lot of talented newcomers who are interested in thnis contest. When you do not win this "contest", do not dispair. The parameters of this "contest" are questionable, and they sound like they were made by some group at CAA or some other "high end agency", who don't care about anything but the bottom line for THEM, not you. When you do not win this contest, thrust a finger (which one, your choice) into the air, and persevere. To quote a famous English orator, "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER...GIVE UP".

It was the shortest speech given to a college graduating class, and no one has ever been so eloquent.

Steven,

Gee, so you think ol' Don is hustling for screenwitersutopia or pimping for some webs site hustling contest? "Ol Don doesn't even have a profile, and he still wants us to believe he is an above the board for real opportunist.

Don, stick it. Your posts are transparent. You are a hustler and loading the site with bs. Do you see any turnip trucks parked outside? Fade back into the shadows where you belong , and go visit Gretta.

The crap you guys have to put up with. How do you wade through all this?

Pushed a couple of buttons.

Randy

Colleen,

You can contact the actor by calling SAG and requesting the name of the actor's agent.

I might suggest you asking for the name of the manager. The manager might be more receptive to unsollicited scripts.

Good luck.

Randy

Mike,

As a businessman, I'm skeptical of your approach. It's very immmature and unprofessional. Mr. Mensch is the originator of this website, which is very successful, as measured by it's participants. The site designation is well understood by Frederick in his initial approach. You see, he understood his target market, and you haven't got a clue who we are.

This site is dedicated to writers who aren't, as yet, published as screenwiters, therefore we do not, as yet, have a screenplay developed into a film yet. You are on the wrong site. "Fred", as you refer to him, knows that. Frederick is right on in not allowing your info on the site. You are barking up the wrong tree. If you were a good market research person you would know this. Your long winded whining is lost on us, and you are making an ass of yourself.

I suggest you find another website. I cannot guess where it is, because the majority of the websites for new writers does not include writers who are successful enough to already have films developed. I can surmise that you have guessed that there is a market out there for your contest...and, in reality, it does not exist, or at least in great enough numbers for your "contest".

I guess I consider you to be the "fool".

Isn't dNa the Prodco who had the site on ebay for selling parts for actors, which was promptly jerked by the Ca Dept. of Labor as illegal, and then reasserted themselves as an auction for would be casting directors to buy the part and then assign it to any "actor" they wanted? (They "sold" parts to anyone who had the cash to buy the parts, and raised over $250K) Even Blockbuster Video was a sucker in being a sponsor of such a "SCAM". Bet 'cha it was DNA. Check it out. If so, they can't be anything but SCAM artists, and should not be trusted with anything.

Caveat Emptor.

Frederick,

I would like to add my appreciation for your website and your professionalism. You are an astute businessman who understands his target market, perhaps because you are also a writer. I trust you implicitly (sic)to make the decisions on what is best for this website and it's participants.

It's really funny how a disgruntled contest maker intended to solicit our support with his open letter, and instead only cooked his own goose and raised the hackles on your viewers here.

We have a great group of writers here, and I enjoy the conversations in this forum.

Keep up the good work.

Randy

Ms. Ash,

You are my Princess and Darlin'. I am the one with a burr under my saddle.

Please don't cry. It makes me crazy. I can't stand it when you are unhappy.

On another note...

I knew it would happen if I just persisted and said my piece often enough in my Texas style, pull no punches, way. It's finally happened. A new sworn enemy has quoted me. Not only once, but several times. How much time did he spend going through my year's worth of comments to find several things he took out of context to use "against me". Trouble is, I didn't feel bad about any of my quotes. Did I miss something? (Except of course the "burr under the saddle" quote. Didn't I use a ;-) ?

I knew it. I am now quoted on the internet by the new sworn enemy. I AM FINALLY FAMOUS.

Belly up to the bar folks, I'm buying the next round of drinks. (Ms. Ash will have a cranberry and soda, barkeeper)

I had second thoughts about using the word "fool", but my fingers were too fast on the "add message" icon, and I couldn't edit my terse statement. Now I'm glad I didn't have the chance to edit it. He really went off like a cannon, didn't he? Wow, I sure know how to raise the hackles on the back of the neck of the typical Hollywood liberal. Guess I'll never work in this town again.

Frederick, is this what you meant about developing a thick skin? Guess I'm learning.

Betcha' I won't be welcome on 21st Century VOX website, huh. Oh, well, I guess that's o.k.

Ms. Ash, Miriam, Steven and Sang: Thank you for your support, but when it comes down to it, he made the big stink all on his own. No reflection on me. Remeber when I accused him of not understanding this target market? He still hasn't a clue on who frequents this site and why. To him we are only possible contestants for his pet project. Oh, well. Life goes on, and I'm in need of time to write a good story.

Again, thanks for the support, ya'll.

Randy

p.s. Wait a minute. Do I need to re-read my above statements in case I offend MM again?

Naw.

Jonathan,

I told you that this was the best site for sharing info on such topics. The writers who frequent this site are the best.

Aren't you glad you dropped by?

Good luck. Hope you make a sale!!

Randy

Mr. Martin,

I'm flattered (even though it wasn't intended as such) that you took the time to review all my comments from the past year. Your above post is from 5 or 6 different posted topics, and are somewhat out of context. (Aren't you supposed to use quotation marks when quoting someone else's words?)

I'm unsure of your point. The above quotes were from other writers asking about how to shoot their own stories in a short film form and on digital video. Does this mean I'm being hypocritical about not having a film in the can yet? Sorry, but my short DV won't be shot until February, and not in time to make your contest.

Not that it would be welcome by your contest.

John,

Good question. I, perhaps, am guessing MM is a liberal. Unfortunately I have crossed swords with several liberal H'wood types here in L.A. My conservative viewpoints come out eventually in a conversation/discussion, and it seems that the liberals here in H'wood resort to personal attacks when frustrated. These are only my personal experiences, and perhaps jaded. Maybe even a kneejerk reaction on my part. If I have offended anyone with a liberal viewpoint, I apologize. It was not my intent.

Sorry I brought up politics. Never a good idea on my part.

The following is a quote from Mr. Martin:

"It is Frederick's site though and I promise I won't be back, but when some....calls me an immature fool, them's fightin' words.

I could use a few words here about Randy but--I'm too mature to do that!

Mike Martin "

To answer the question, "How can Randy Roberts Say this?"..I guess it's because the First Amendment gives me the right to do so, even when I disagree with you, Sir.

This is getting out of hand, Mr. Martin. I suggest that you have made your point, and any further posts are nothing but personal attacks and "flaming".

At any rate, I will not resond to anymore of Mr. Martin's posts, as they will only inflame him and bore the good folks at MovieBytes.

Miriam,

Suggestion considered and taken respectfully. I have quite a few friends who are truly liberal.

How did you know I was a brunette?

Randy

Damn. Drove all the way over over here to see the famous Ms. Ash's (aka "Princess") name in lights.

Must have missed it by a couple of hours or so. Oh, well...next time, send me advanced notice so I can hire the limo to drive me.

Ran

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:

Miriam, Ashley, et. al.

I did not say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robert...Bobby, Baby. Do NOT get me in any more trouble than I am in already. I've already stepped in it...but I'm a Texas boy...and wear cowboy boots.

(but I'm still a brunette....if you don't count the gray hairs. I don't)

Chris, That address, 4000 Warner Blvd, is on the Warner Bro's lot. Building 81 houses such prodco's as Malpaso (Clint Eastwood) and several others.

Are you trying to get a script to them? You have to have an appointment in order to get on the lot. Let me know if you need assistance.

Randy

Chris,

That's good feedback. I met Chris' Assistant years ago, and understand that he is approachable for new projects.

Good luck.

Randy

The comment about "it's dead here", is all too correct. Guess I'll kick it in the pants and suggest the topic about the pending writer's strike next spring. My Attorney suggests that any script not on the market by Dec. 1st is in dire straits due to the pending actor's strike (theatrical) also next spring.

To be honest with you, I personally think the actor's strike next spring is avoidable, and see progress towards solving it now. I'm more concerned with the writers and their pending negotiations.

I'd really like to hear your viewpoints on these "event horizon" topics looming in the near future.

Randy

Ms. Ash, et al,

The "SAG commercial" agreement has been resolved, but the "theatrical" agreement comes up next spring. That part of SAG which covers all TV and film work, such as sitcoms, dramas, etc. That means that the A list actors, such as Martin Sheen and company on "West Wing", would have to walk from filming, including all the sitcoms as well. That's why there will be a "LOT" of production for all TV shows, and as many films as can be shot who have signed contracts by March 15th.

Will the SAG actors work if the WGA strikes? No. We will honor the picket line. The smart actor knows the writers are our lifesblood, and the WGA is the signatory.

I do see a couple of possibilities: SAG limited budget films with non-union writers scripts, and the SAG actors doing WGA scripts with producers who will sign an "interim" agreement to pay the WGA writers what will become the next WGA agreement when the strike is resolved.

Hopefully, the producers and writers will be able to resolve the agreement before the end of term, but I have to tell you that L.A. is in a mild state of panic at this time, anticipating the worst.

IMHO, there is no better time to get a non-union script out there for purchase. As for waiting to sell your non-union script during a WGA strike, not a good idea. I anticipate that the WGA will treat SCABS the same way SAG does. Those non-union actors who scabbed during the recent commercial strike will not be allowed to join SAG. Several name actors are being brought up before the Board for doing work during the strike. (As a matter of fact, many non-union actors who joined the picket lines and many who were hired to do commercials and then refused to cross the picket lines are being rewarded by easier ways to join SAG.)

As I was taught in Boy Scouts, "Be Prepared".

Steven,

Good question. I suppose a good answer would come from a major studio or production company, or even a WGA member who wrote non-union before they joined the WGA. Anyone out there like that?

I can only relate to why I'm a SAG actor. To work for the majors, and to even be auditioned for a decent role in a major film, I must have my SAG card, or the Director or Producer will "Taft-Hartley" me into the union.

If you are to use a major studio, they have agreements with all the major unions to use union hires, whether they be SAG, Teamsters, local Grips guilds, etc. If you only want to play the indies, I guess you could stay non-union. My question to you...why not join the WGA. An initiation fee of $2,500.00 ( I heard it was higher) is a small fee if you get "low six figures" for the rough draft against mid-six or even 7 figures for the completed script and production, not to mention residuals.

I know Production Co's will screw actors if it weren't for SAG. did enough non-union work before I joined SAG, and it was never a good situation. Personally, I appreciate how SAG gets me better working conditions, pay, residuals and respect. Perhaps it's the same for the WGA.

Personally, I look forward to being able to join the WGA and the DGA as well. (I'm sure some people who know me would be surprised that I, being such an independent minded person, wm in favor of unions. I think it's because so many of the studios and prodco's treat non-union people like crap. I can tell you stories.)

I've heard George Lucas dropped out of the DGA for some reason, but I'm not privy to such info. Guess he's got enough power to avoid such trappings, but I don't mind playing the game as long as I can control my films content and impact. I have that power, and it starts with the writing.

Steven, what is your take on the WGA? Remember, I respect your opinon a great deal.

Steve,

Not a groundless fear. One I share with you, and I, too, am no real union man. However, in my short time in SAG, I feel it's neccesary there. WGA...I don't know.

I echo Steven's call...anyone out there in the WGA?

Randy

Ms. Ash,

Good questions and observations on your part. Let me add to the points.

In California, you , as a Producer, may work your cast and crew a 17 or 18 hour day, and not have more than one meal break every 6 hours, which they are not required to provide. The labor laws do not adequately provide for long hour days for film or TV production. What about film and TV production in another state. Different states, different labor law requirements. It actually makes more sense to follow the Guild's rules than have 50 states trying to make similar laws. SAG actually covers all these states, and even Canada, with their reg's. The SAG reg's for working conditions are really very reasonable. As a matter of fact, just take a look at the different ways non-union extras are treated vs. SAG extras. Sometimes there are even different craft services tables for union vs non-union. Sorry so many producers are such jerks, but it is true. Been there.

As for talented people not working because they are not yet SAG, I can't give you sympathy. I was a non-union Background actor for 18 months before I earned my 3 SAG vouchers. Know how I got them? I worked harder than any other non-union BA on the set, made friends with the 2nd AD's, and they knew I was worthy of becoming an actor. There has to be some way you pay your "dues" in order to join SAG. It isn't a personality contest; it's those who are willing to work hard and "show" their talent by working hard for it and earning it. If everyone who wanted to join SAG did, we'd have a overly large union, most of whose membership don't have "talent", and are only fame seekers with no real insight to how hard it is to be an actor and actually get work. The cream rises to the top, especially when it works hard to get there. I resent the "babes" who are non-union and "seduce" the Production Crew into "giving " them the SAG vouchers. I also resent some "Hollywood" stars who got there by mere chance, and aren't really actor material. We all have our opinions on who they are.

I'm not SAG's biggest fan, but the reg's have provided me and many others with good working conditions, and ways to get paid correctly for the work we do. Until all the Producers treat all humans, including actors, well, we need SAG and the other unions as well.

Ms. Ash,

Lady, you are a tough sell. I give. You have good points, but I'm playing the game by the rules until I win, and then be in a position to change the rules. Winners of the game have that opportunity.

I agree on a lot of what you say, but as a realist, I want to work as an actor, so I play the game.

Now, getting back to the subject that was first:

OOps. Somehow, I didn't get to finish.

Let's go back to the pending writer's stike. Anyone out there a member of the WGA and have any thoughts?

Jason, I think you'll only be considered to be a SCAB if your writing is used for a U.S. production filmed in the U.S. I'm not sure it might make any concern for you though. What are you going to do? Say "No, thank you for the offer of $450,000.00, but you are a U.S. Prodco, and their union, of whom I'm not a member, is on strike."? If you are a member in good standing in Canada and your writer's union doesn't honor the WGA picket line, then you can't honor the strike all on your own.

Course a lot depends if you want to join the WGA in the future.

Good luck.

Randy

Miriam,

I seriously do not think anyone in the WGA could consider you a Scab if your script has been signed, or even optioned, before the strike the deadline. Contact the WGA if production is ongoing during the actual strike, and make sure you do not cross any strike lines in front of Prodco's or sets.

I understand the reasons for the pending strike, and I'm sure the WGA needs to take a stand. The only point I cannot agree with is the WGA insisting the the term "A Film by..." not be used by a Director. This, to me, is an ego point, and does not help the negotiations.

IMHO

Randy

Sang,

email me and I'll send you my phone number. One of my clients, and now a friend, is a very experienced Entertainment Attorney. Let's talk.

Randy

Ms. Ash,

Yes, as a matter of fact. May I send you a long list?

Oh, and by the way, could you fix it so I can vote more than once next time?

Thanks.

Ran

Michael,

What does one expect from Adam Sandler? New ideas that are intelligent, funny and marketable? Well one out of three ain't bad. Oops, maybe funny isn't right either.

According to the critics, it doesn't appear than anyone, other than Sandler, will claim credit for the screenplay of "Little Nicky". One local critic said it was the "worst move he EVER saw". I don't care for critics, but maybe this time they're right.

You are right. Let's dump this recycling of old TV shows and revivals of past films. The Studios may have run out of material, but we haven't.

Randy

Nick,

The world is passing you by, and you are so panicked, you don't read messages sent to you. You are an idiot!

Check the message several rungs down the line. Sheila has a copy for you, if you will respond to her. You didn't leave a forwarding address.

Tell me, Nick: Did you vote in Florida last week? How many holes did you punch?

The world is full of 'em.. "There's one born every minute." Now go away and leave us to the real business at hand.

No one, save Sylvia, has posted a message to you because we don't use obsolete software systems, and have a backup way to save scripts. To tell you the truth, I was embarrased for you that you'd put yourself into such a bind. I finally got tired of your whining when Sylvia graciously offered to help, and you didn't even notice. The idiot part came in when I realized she was trying to reach you, but you don't have a profile and didn't leave an address until the last post. It became obvious that you didn't bother to read anyother posting other than your own selfish needs.

You are the one who has locked up his important script in an out of date software program so obsolete even the manufacturer can't help you. You whine to your peers, who tire of your whining, and then when someone finally comes along to rescue you, they can't find you because you didn't have the forethought to give them a way to contact you. That's why there is a profiles section.

It seems that by now you might have decided that if the script locked up inside your hard disk was so imortant you'd have made a hard copy, and then just accept the task of re-typing it. Guess that didn't happen.

As for the Electoral College, no one paid attention to me 25 years ago when I wrote my Congressman to look for another way to finalize the Presidential election. Since then I have come to realize that the small states will never ratify an amendment giving so much power to the urban areas. Perhaps an imperfect system, but it beats the hell out the socialism in Canada (200 years in "advance"?), especially your socialized medicine. Perhaps you could ask Mother England/France for help. They are the epitome of obsolete Imperialism/Royalty and new Communism.

Some scripts languish in "development hell". Guess yours will just sit in "obsolete software hell".

Like Deb, I bought Scriptware because it was less expensive, but have since found that they do not do much of a job of support. No new upgrades available in a long while, and they don't show up at Show Biz Expo, so I'm worried about their future.

I'm looking at jumping ship and going to Final Draft.

Randy

Sarita,

This is a good place to vent. Go ahead, get it all out!

"Young and creative", huh? In some circles, that is all the reason you need to get a job writing in H'wood. Guess you have a different view than those who claim otherwise.

Young sometimes means "inexperienced" to those who might hire you or buy your wares. They are the foolish who don't count. I'm no longer "young" (over 40), but I have similar problems because I am new and therefore have no track record.

What are you doing to expose your writing talents to those who would hire you or buy your screenplay? Festivals, working as a P.A. on a sitcom, publishing on a different level? If you tell us here what you are doing, maybe some of your peers on this site can give you more defined direction, and push you in better directions for your eventual success.

Venting is good. Becoming successful is better, and the reason we gather together here.

Sarita, Dahling,

Not a pimp; just your own cheerleader and best support system. I understand the frustration. I'm at a point in my life where it doesn't seem to make much sense, and the will to go on, or even surive, seems to be just beyond my fingertips.

Your desire and passion must be the juice to push you forward. Your perisitence will pay off. Stay the course and stick to your guns. Try everything once, and once one thing seems to bring you luck, kick it in the butt and push until it makes things happen for you.

I wish you luck.

By the way..the harder you work, the luckier you get.

Randy

Hey, ya'll,

I got a great idea, and called a couple of crazy actors and production folks in the L.A. area, and we are going to shoot a "guerilla style" 10 minute short, western spoof between Christmas and New Years. I have the location, guns and blanks, outfits, horses and some actors already, and the damn idea isn't even 24 hours old. Going to shoot digital and make a 10 minute short so I can do an internet thing and get some film time for my cators and prod. folks.

We are looking to spoof some old westerns, like "Blazing Saddles", "Rio Bravo", "The Villain", and more. Any suggestions?

Gotta' tell you, these westerns are a hell of a lot of fun, and good reference films are plentious!

Your suggestions are welcome.

Randy

Hey, fellow writers,

I need help here! deadline for a "seat of your pants" script and loosey-goosey script for a funny western farce to be shot "guerilla style" the end of this month. I really need some good suggestions on this farce. I've got lots of great volunteers from the acting section. I need soem good suggestions for reviewing great lines in westerns for funny situations.

Please respond. I'm in need here!

Randy

Paula,

Good ideas. I do have a good way to get back to the old west, via Walter Mitty. Now my next concern is the spoofing of some of people's favorite scenes in them. The "Blazzing Saddles" bean scene is probably one, and I have had several suggestions from others, such as the "McClintock"..."I'm not going to hit you,,,the hell I'm not." One of my fav's is Tom Selleck's "Quigley Down Under" where he and his co-star are lost in the desert on a horse and he says, "don't know where we're going, but there's no sense being late". It's a scene that can be shot almost anywhere without great expense.

Any more suggestions will be great appreciated. It should be great fun shooting this short farce anyway.

Randy

Sang, Deb, et.al.,

Great suggestions. Still working on the scene for the Eastwood section. Have a scene for "Quigley...", "Butch and Sundance", "Blazing Saddles", McClintock", "Tombstone", and "Silverado" so far, with several more to go.

Keep 'em coming.

Randy

Miriam,

I saw the "Dune" movie on the sci-fi channel, but was dissapointed. I thought the original "Dune" feature film done many years ago (80's) was much closer to the characters Frank Herbert wrote in his novel. I did not like ANY of the characters in the sci-fi's version. Even the hero/protagonist, Paul Atrides, becomes a dictator at the end of this version, and very different from the novel. A little too much artistic license?

I've been writitng drama with a little humor sprinkled here and there, but I must admit, I'm really enjoying writing this spoof/farce.

Is "western" a genre? Put me in that cubbyhole, too.

Randy

Ms. Ash,

I do recall you and I having the opinion that PG would not work, even if for different reasons.

PG is/was a great marketing project for Matt and Ben and their handlers. It also opened doors for unscrupulous types to steal ideas from novices for the future. I didn't know it would become such a forum for such profane messages by a generation of wnaabes without morals, ethics or class. I read the message boards for a while, but the crass and profane messages left me cold and unmoved by such vile comments, especially between members. If the message boards were so vile, I knew the reviews would be worthless.

Project Greenlight is a mistake, but I'm sure the handlers will "spin" the results so as to complete their marketing plans. I will save final judgement until the "winners" get their script on film and wee how bad the results really are.

I really want to see how many scripts submitted that were severly panned will have specific plot points or themes "stolen" by others in the future. Seems to be a great forum for that to happen.

I would like to wish each of you a very Happy Holidays. Since I'm not politically correct, I will wish my fellow Christians a Merry Christmas and my Jewish peers Happy Hanukkah.

I hope the holidays bring great cheer to your household. Since I'm single, I have to fight the gnawing depression that comes with this time of year. A great way to do that is to share good cheer with your peers.

Randy

Ms. Ash,

An especially Happy Holidays to my Princess, Darlin'. You are such the writer, that I was spellbound reading your story.

All the scribes were gathered 'round the tree, with visions of sugarplums dancing in their heads. They sang the songs of praise to their faiths, and gave gifts to all gathered there, and to the children of the night who were huddled in small rooms elsewhere.

The season gave a feeling of humanity that affected all there, especially the Grinch, who's heart grew to the size of angel's.

The tree began a glow of it's own, which was very good, since the stage 3 alert in California dimmed the artifical lights after 7:00 p.m. (PST) The glow came from the outpouring of sincere love and brotherhood of a country in need of healing and a good future.

God Bless us all...everyone.

To My Peers:

This is an easy topic to ignore; It's a tough topic for comittment.

I hereby commit to shoot the first script I have written, "Heroes & Villains", on Digital video and have it sent to several film festivals and Studios.

I hereby commit to finish the script "Desert Diva" for sale to the major studios and Production companies.

They say that if you commit to write your year's future as a specific goal, you will complete it. Any other writers out there willing to commit, or am alone in my New Year's Resolutions?

Looking for my peers to agree...

Happy New Year!

Randy

O.k., o.k., I give up.

Ever feel that you are playing Dean Martin to Ms. Ash's Jerry Lewis?

I'm her Oliver Hardy...her Bud Abbott. Ask a simple question and get "Who's on first..."

Note:

Add to New Year's Resolutions:

1.) Don't ask a group of writers to seriously participate in such drivel.

2.)Write the resolutions yourself and don't tell anyone else.

3.) Then do them.

Happy New Year, anyway.

Randy

Ms. Ash,

Joking? Humor? Satire? Dry wit?

Pulling my leg? Stating a possible funny exhibition of prose?

Nah.....................

Randy

P.S. Thank you for my Christmas "present". It was a surprise and unexpected.

p.p.s.

All you guys...eat your heart out!

Oh, Thanks, Ms. Ash. I had several offers on EBay until you burst the bubble. I had enough offers to pay for the production costs on "H&V."

Oh, well. Back to the drawing board, and

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Randy

Hey Steven,

Paintball gun accuracy is not a science. The gun barrels are not "rifled", so there is no real accuracy to any shot.

A good attorney would have a paintball gun manufacturer be an expert witness to testify that making an accurate hit in the throat would be a crap shoot at best.

Steven, I suggest you spend a Saturday or Sunday afternoon visiting a paintball gallery and actually shooting the paintball gun, and then go on a "hunt" with an seasoned team. Bet a dollar you won't last 10 minutes against a seasoned team, but you'll learn a lot about the sport...may even be fun. Ya' never know.

Randy

Steven,

My apology for my error. I should have known you would have done your homework. Five feet is definately close quarters, and an accurate shot to the throat could be done. I have never shot a paintball "marker"... just watched from afar.

I remember the thugs here in L.A. who videotaped their exploits with shooting innocents during the drive by. The video was hard to watch, especially when their victims got hit and the thugs were laughing.

If you were here in L.A., I'd give you the D.A.'s office in Santa Monica to call for advice. (one of my clients) Maybe even a local ploice officer might shed some light on what they may originally be arrested for. Perhaps the original arest might be a civil lawsuit for unlawful assult or something simpler, and then the D.A.'s office gets wind of it and adds to the charges. Perhaps the doctors in the ER report the "attempted poisoning" to the Medical Examiner's Office, especially if this is not the first incident to occur.

Interesting predicament you have. Good luck with it. I'd love to see the finished first draft.

Randy

2001

Deezha,

The degree in writing just means you "can" write, not that anyone in this town will "let" you write.

There was a great mag piece on "Vista L.A." on Channel 7 this morning. It was about a Latina writer who spent several years from being a P.A. to Asst. to the writer's staff on sitcoms who learned the biz and then went out and did her own thing, but only after a few years of toting coffee for staff, etc.

You are at the bottom again, just as I was when I graduated from college with a degree in Architecture. All it got me was a job in a big firm as the junior draftsman among many such as I. This, perhaps, is where you are now. This is the "who you know" part. If you don't know who, then start networking...everywhere. Take the P.A. job for any production, find out who the writers are, ask them for a chance to work with them, and then pay your dues. Paying your dues has very little to do with education or talent...it has everything to do with sweat, crappy jobs and hours and a great attitude.

The time is now for "Patience and Persistence". Now you show us what you are made of, and your talent will not wither. Continue to write, even if there is no one as of this date to read your writings. Someday there will be, and you will have a great wealth of stories to show them.

You may even enjoy the journey up the ladder. Most of us do.

Good luck. See you at the top, and I'll look for your name in the credits someday!

Randy

Mr. Silagi,

You are a whiner, and Ms. Ash has the right to her opinion, even if it slams you. Too bad you had the cojones to complain (ignorantly) but couldn't handle the rebuff. If your private rebuff was profane, you have no class. Most whiners don't. Where can I send a check for your "wasted $20" so I don't have to read your worthless posts?

Most of us on this site have voiced our complaints and opinions, mostly with some regard for Frederick. If it were not for him and his website, we would not have perhaps the best forum for sharing information. I have complained here for one reason or another, but it was never cynical or hateful.

You have crossed the line, in case you didn't notice. Either make peace, or leave the rest of us to enjoy the good information here.

If you send me a private post, be civil. I'll be glad to mail you $20 to end the argument,... no wait, complaint... and then look forward to a good forum for the exchange of valuable information.

As for Ms. Ash's temperment, it takes something significant to get on the wrong side of it. I'd say you asked for it.

Randy

Frederick,

You really gotta re-think this open door policy.

I thought that "110 Center St." pilot had all the wackos in it tonight.

Won't be the first time I was wrong.

Steven,

I just heard of a great new job opening in Illinois for a Corporate Manager. Pays $70k per year. They had to let the previous manager go for making snide remarks to her staff.

How's that?

Either that or you can have my old job @ Warner Bro's. as a Security Officer. No guns or batons to play with, but you can sneak into the sitcoms and mooch food off the crafts services tables.

Ran

Ms. Ash,

Security @ Warner Bro's for 18 months. I did everything from "Patrol" (lock/unlock stages for prodco's), work Gate 6 (audition gate for casting---lot's of very talented known and unknown actors) and Lead security Officer for several sitcoms, including Tom Selleck's short lived one and another short lived one called "The Army Show". Also worked security on "Friends", "Everybody Loves Raymond" and "The Drew Carey Show". Met great people from George Clooney, Noah Wiley, Alexandra Paul to Mickey Rooney and all of the above named actors. They are, for the most part, very good people, and only a small number are full of themselves.

I did get tongue-tied when I met "Mr. Eastwood".

Don't get me wrong: this isn't name dropping per se. It's meeting successful people within this business and admiring them not only for their work, but for the good people they are. You'd be surprised how supportive they individually are when you tell them of your aspirations.

That's another topic of discussion for another day.

Ran

Ms. Ash,

Oops. Forgot the part about kooks.

Yep. Couple of 5150's (cop talk for "mentally unbalanced"). One or two tried to schmooze their way in thru the gates in order to get into casting, and several try to get in thru the gates to get close to several celeb's. We had profiles to look for, including photo's of those who actually got inside, but were caught before they got into the stage.

Couple of times we had to watch "possibles" who showed questionable behavior towards the cast members, and some actually had to be escorted out or held for the Police. Most were just warned to not return.

Once we had two different Kooks who were after the same actress on a given night. Too bad we couldn't let them duke it out on the parking lot. Both got to go to visit the local "gray bar hotel".

Some even announce their arrivals from out of state. Talk about confidence.

Strange thing, this celebrity obsession.

Ran

I gather you guys are not using Final Draft, Scriptware or another screenwriting software. I use the terms "morning, afternoon, evening," etc and the term "continuing".

There are a couple of reasons for using the specific terms. Any actor who reads the script will glean information from all sorts of clues;

INT. AFTERNOON

"Jack rolls out of bed in search of coffee and stumbles into the kitchen..."

Another reason for a specific time of day is a production reason. At some time the Director and Production Mgr. need to schedule the shot (usually out of sequence) and they need to know if they should schedule the shot on a night shoot or a day shoot (showing daylight coming thru the window), or the Gaffers will have to rig a blackout shade over the outside of the window in order to block out the sunlight for a "night" scene.

If you don't do this from the starting gate, then perhaps the prodco will hire someone else to do the "re-writes" correctly. That's a loss of both money and control for the original writer.

It isn't that hard to do from the beginning. Good habits are as easy to start as bad ones. Breaking bad habits later is tough.

Good luck.

Randy

Yesterday I directed two scenes from a short film I wrote called "The Sisters (Las Hermanas)". Today I shoot the other scene in my Director's class.

I can't tell you the feeling I got while doing this. To hear two very good actors bring the characters to life is a very eye opening experience. While blocking the scenes, each actor gave me great feedback for enriching the characters. (I ask questions of each actor to find out if they have done their backstories and how in tune with the written character they are.) If the actor is off course, I will then make corrections, thus Directing.

The suggestion I have for many of you is to get a cameraman and cast some GOOD actors (emphasis intentional) to shoot a short subject. May I suggest that it will positively influence your writing and give you a new appreciation for your work. It may also show you that the script is a blueprint during a shoot, and that dialog may be altered in order to fine tune the scene.

It was such a great experience for me that I wanted to suggest that others try it as well. If you have the opportunity to do it as a class project as I am doing, it will be a great learning experience.

Nick,

I know you and I are still at odds with one another, but I will offer this information.

dNa out of Beverly Hills, was the initial purveyor of "Who wants to be a movie Star?". It was (is) as scam where they originally offered all the parts to actors for "bidding" on ebay for a feature film. They were immediately shut down by California Dept. of Labor for trying to "sell" employment. Several days later their attorneys re-worked the legalese so that whoever bid on the part available could "appoint" someone elese for the part (read "you are now the casting director"). They made a LOT of MONEY in order to pay for the film development. They even sold Production Assistant positions and Exec. Producer positions.

Almost forgot. There was no script. A "well known" writer would be hired to write a script around the new "cast" so that they might be able to fit a part given to them. Maybe some of the big bucks could be used to hire an acting coach and script Dr.

If you call this good production, we're all doomed.

SJC,

I went to the website you suggested (even though it was misspelled), and all I found was a website for Yann Debonne.

Granted, he is a very accomplished writer/Director. Where is the "Circle of Filmmakers"? Did I miss something in the translation?

Are you hustling us? What's the deal? You don't have a profile, so I can't contact you directly to ask these questions. There are too many open ended q's to see why you posted for new Filmmakers.

I have a profile with my email address where you can send me more information, or you can be more forthgiving with info here.

Randy

I'm so glad none of you guys has any influence with the writer who penned "The Ususal Suspects". No flashbacks, no explanation.

There are so many rules, both unspoken and written, in Scriptville.

There are some folks who can break the rules upon occasion, and get away with...no, even change them.

Steven Soderberg broke the rules with the filming of "Traffic". Now if he ever starts to write, watch out, Script Police.

Jeff,

Nothing "H" in your "IHMO".

And you still haven't answered my question.

Randy

Mr. Creazzo,

You started another thread as "New Circle of Filmmakers", but it only lead to a self agrondizing advertisement for Yann Debonne. If you are going to hold the carrot to Filmmakers, I'd appreciate some honesty in your aproach, and less of a "look at me, I'm working for a great Director" aproach. I would have emailed you directly, but you have no profile.

I normally would assail you considerably, but you may not be worth my disgust.

A little less bragadoccio, and a little more honest and serious discussion here on a very honest website of good folks, who can see clearly.

As for flashbacks, use them where appropriate, and to heck with the "experts" who generically condemn them, because they are stuck in "rules". Breaking their rules is not only fun, but can be rewarding. Never trust an SOB who uses the terms "always" and "never".

Oops.

Randy

Steven, et.al.

I spoke to WGA membership today for clarification. (I'm shooting my own script via a SAG Limited Exhibition contract in June).

No problem, since I have not filled out an application for WGA, and am considered a non-union signatory. I was warned about "taking any meetings" with any WGA signatory Prodco's during the strike. That is a big no-no.

Go, therefore, and scribe new blockbusters.

Colleen,

Congrat's. I hope this is only a lead in to your next big project! Send out your great vibes to the other scribes who need the "luck 'o the Irish" this close to St Paddy's day.

"May the road rise up to meet you...but not so fast as to smack you in the nose".

A little Irish, and a little borrowed humor.

"Here's to you , as good as you are, and here's to me, as bad as I am, and as good as you are, and as bad as I am, I'm as good as you are, as bad as I am."

An Irish toast, to all, and especially to a lass with a good Irish name as "Colleen".

God Bless,

Randy

Woody Allen "brilliant"? Not quite. Woody has the habit of writing a very loose script...shooting it..reviewing the dailies... and then going back to correct the mistakes and finish the screenplay and the shoot. "Haphazard" is a more accurate description.

Nice work if you have no budget, but hardly a way for any other screenwriter to emulate.

Let me be more specific. Woody Allen shoots a script, edits it, discovers what's missing and then RECALLS the cast and crew back to finish the film. This does not appear to me that he has a complete script when he begins. There are always rumors of starting a film with a bare bones script. Only the "power players" can get away with that. It scares the Exec. Producers and cast that they may be part of a doomed project. There are many projects not finished because of poor planning. If you try that approach of starting a project without a good plan (read script) in any other profession, you would be called foolish, and it would be difficult to find financial backers.

As for whether or not I like Woody Allen films, I don't. I also don't care for slasher flicks or films beseiged with excessive gore, violence and vulgarity.

I do not respect a filmmaker merely because of a body of work or even the box office they create. I don't care that Hannibal made $150 million +...I won't waste my time watching a film with that type of gore and content.

Woody Allen is successful. So are a lot of Hollywood Producers/writers. I still don't care for them, and I retain my right to express my opinion. As for knocking Allen becasue of the way he shoots a script, let's just say I'd rather learn how Clint Eastwood shoots (always on time, alway on or under budget, and never works long days) a script. As for a writer's ways of developing a script to film, I'd rather find another way to write a complete script so the entire team knows what's going on.

As for looking for your respect 20 years from now after a body of work, I won't hold my breath.

PJ,

Congrat's! The words are now transformed and become reality on the screen. Getting paid to do this is o.k., huh?

Many more for your future!

Randy

I thought Billy Crystal was funny last year. His "wild and crazy guy" skit this year was lame. Sorry they couldn't get the old Steve Martin. I remember Steve Martin being a very good stand-up comic. At least Tom Hanks played a good straight man.

Yo-Yo Ma and Itzack Perlman were the true class act, but I also enjoyed Dino Delaurnetis' acceptance speech about accepting newcomers.

The music performances by Sting, et al (did Bjork fly in on her dress?)were exceptionally lame...especially Dylan.

Glad to see Sodenberg get the Director's award. Glad to see some good awards for Traffic, Crouching Tiger, and very glad Marcia Gaye Hardin won Best supporting Actress. Glad to see Chocolat tanked, and Ridley Scott get acknowledgment from Crowe and others.

A little bit for everybody. The only thing missing was the top half of JLo's dress.

Uhh, I dunno. They were just there staring at me and I, uh, sorta', leared back?

And you weren't staring at Crowe? 'Fess up, Ms. Ash. You were, too.

Ms. Ash,

As for being a writer, I'd expect such an eloquent response. It's still an admission of guilt.

Told 'ya! Caught 'ya.

Lil' Miss Mental Image Picture Taker. Sounds like a title for a pagent.

As for Russell Crowe, I'm sure he's dissapointed that you didn't remember his lil' leather skirt. I'm sure he appreciates you respecting his "class, eloquence, talent and apparent inellect"; let's just hope he can suffer not being on your "hunk" list.

Randy

Nope.

Lights...camera..action...

Let there be dramaaaa......

and more of Steven Soderberg, Ridley Scott and Steven Gahgan...

And less of Adam Sandler and Steven Segal!!!

SHORT STRIKE!!! and work for the working! Who cannot endure the time off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, guys. I'm going to Orange County tomorrow. I just happen to know where this address is located. Think I'll drop by to check it out. Let's see if the answer the door.

The address is in the middle of the corporate center of the John Wayne Airport business center. Unless it's a mail drop for an "Executive Suite". I'll drop ya'll a note either tomorrow night or Saturday morning.

Now where did I put that Sherlock Holmes cap?

I must apologize to my peers. I sat in traffic so much today, I couldn't make my two appointments and go to the questionable site as well. I do plan to go back within two weeks, so I will make the concerted effort to visit this "office" and will "tell all" as soon as I do.

Keep the faith, and don't let the bastards get you down.

Randy

Does anyone have an opinion on sending just a Treatment to Scriptshark?

I've been holding on to my most commercial story to date, but it is still in Treatment only form, and I don't have enough time before the pending deadline to render it into a full script form.

I read their (Scriptshark) success stories, but some seem too good to be true.

Randy

Andy,

Helloooooo. WGA pending strike? Long one.

I can't negotiate a sale of a script with a signatory with WGA during the strike. If I do, I am in direct violation as a SCAB, and will not be able to join WGA in the future.

There are some folks who think that might not be a "bad" thing.

The WGA strike is sounding like a long, drawn out, and fairly nasty situation. Who knows what the future of the biz will be.

No crystal balls here.

David,

Good question!!!

Low concept for sale? No.

Low concept where the writer /director did the production themselves? YES!

Check out Kat Candler's "Cicadas", an award winning feature film (shot on DV) and she did it all herself. Now the recognition is starting to roll in, and offers are beginning to happen.

Low concept brings to mind "low budget", so who would "buy" such a script? Probably no one, but don't let that stop you.

Write what you know. Write what you love. The applause will come later.

Good luck, David.

Randy

Aaaahhhhmmmmm....

Aaaahhhmmmmmm....

...going to be sick.

I was going to be only nautious, but I couldn't remember how to spell it. Must be this string.

Well, I was feeling better after the asprin and mailing off the $5.00, but now the "school marm'" went and made me nausieous...or nautchous...(whatever) again.

Thanks, Ms. Ash.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............outa here.

Gotta' go and dig out that check in the mail to Steve.

Tylenol? No, when you drink the wine of California, only the ASPRIN will not harm you.

course, when in California, you hear "OHMMMM" while standing in line to cash your refund check from the STATE and FEDERAL (caps not done in honor, but in total value of $)

Ms. Ash. "You have his address?" "S'cuse.... me. You are the only one, other than Mrs. Q., to have my cell phone number"

I never knew you had green eyes.

Actually, they are very becoming on you.

On a different note, who wants to RSVP for chili party in downtown Acton, CA, for which I am cooking my award winning "Desperado chili"? It's hot, spicy, mouth watering, tear filling and will clean out your "innards".

Line forms to the right (not the left).

Stu,

You have something he doesn't have... My respect as a writer who hasn't sold out.

You are "the man"!!!

I hope to someday direct a screenplay you have written, and assist you in the award recognition you will have earned.

Stay the course.

Randy

Deb,

Good morning, fellow Filmmaker. I'm glad you are still pursuing the feature film project, but I certainally understand the need to get cameras "rolling".

I'm not familiar with the new JVC cameras. I'm going to "Show Biz Expo" in L.A. the end of May and will get the skinny on a lot of production tools, including the capabilities of the new cameras. (for those interested, try www.showbizexpo.com) Session #109, Production Options is on Thursday, May 31, and discusses the best tools for the job for indie Filmmakers.

As for "Heroes & Villains", I got the ok from SAG to shoot after June 30th if necessary, a letter of endorsement from the CA Gang Crime Investigator's Assoc., and a request from the L.A. County District Attorney's office for the script. They are interested in adding the video to their curriculum for education children who are in danger of becoming gang members.

I'm finalizing locations, wardrobe and meeting the financial investors soon. The budget is higher than originally thought (surprise? No.)

I also have a new script I may shoot on the 4th of July here in a local town who are bending over backwards to assist a small indie Filmmaker.

What the heck, I'll have my Workmen's comp. and liability insurance already covered for the month, so I need to take advantage of that and shoot the 2nd script.

Casting is complete for H&V, and I gave up my part to a very good actor so I could concentrate on Directing.

In reference to cameras, I'm going to use the Canon XL-1 because it can use interchangable lens, and I need several wide shots, several long lens shots, and a glide cam for the chase scene and the 360 rotate shot for the hostage scene. My DP has 2 cameras (insurance) and all the lenses and support equipment. I'm getting a good deal from an experienced DP for a very reasonable cost.

I'm making headway, and it all rests on the investors writing a check this month. Say a prayer or keep a good thought for the project.

I'm off to meet the Prod. Mgr. (volunteered as a favor) to discuss budget line items, shot list and permit processes. I don't think this is listed under the "glamour" section of Indie Filmmaking, but it's exciting anyway.

I'll send you a personal email with the phone number.

Randy

Collin,

You are right. The lowest option price can only be $500.00, and the advice for a good attorney is very smart. Spend the $500.00 on the attorney if necessary. As for the total price, $10,000.00 for your first screenplay seems like a low number compared to others, but it might be ok. The real problem is that you'll never get the $10K if they never make the film, and in the mean time, you can't go anywhere else to sell the script.

You need professional advice. Stay the course. Sounds like you have a good piece of work that might be worth some real money. Good luck.

Randy

As much as I respect the opinions of the good people here (very good people, I might add), I have a different take on this subject.

Never work for someone else for free. It sets a bad example, and H'Wood will be the first to set new trends to assist the Producers at the risk of any "consultant" or free-lance employee.

That being said, if you become a "partner" in the truest sense (not just an "Associate Producer" credit without the risk factor or profit sharing), you can contribute your talents to the "team" effort. One thing that might go wrong with this scenario is that the writer might be the "only" contributor to the team. The Prodco might not be more than a P.O. Box and fax machine. The Exec. Producer might be a Player wanna-be. If this is the case, your "Partners" get a piece of your screenplay when the sell it to a legit Prodco, and they have done nothing more than shuttle it out on the street.

Be wise and be careful who you become Partners with, and make sure your talents are not the only viable commodity to the talent pool.

Nothing ever happens until "Property" is real, and that comes from you, your imagination, your tireless efforts on the computer/typewriter.

Good luck.

Randy

I have received several emails from a Habib Yomi, who has finally identified himseld as being from Lagos, Nigeria. the last email is as follows:

Roberts, Good morning and how's it going with you? Thanz for the mail and advice. There are no libraries that I can search for histories of political scandals, extortion and Other info to complete my script, the libraries here are dead in Lagos, MY talent is wasting and rotting away ,Even ,we don't even have light as I am about typing this mail. I went to zoetrope but really I can't even review for other short story writers because I don't enough money on me to stay online, I kind of screwed Do you writers that help young writers when they have almost finished their script and get resources .I have been talking other screenwriters but they give one excuse or the other. I have the number to my manuscript at wga.org regist. dept. I hope to hear from you and want to know about your film and it's name. Hope to hear from you, I live in Lagos-Nigeria, (phone number deleted)

He found my name on one of the several websites I correspond with other writers and Producers, and as gently as I could, I suggested he find a school or non-profit organization to help him out, and then I get the last email. He could be pulling my leg, like that strange kid in AZ (that's Arizona, but he did haunt Zoetrope), or he might really be a kid in Nigeria whoo needs help from someone who can help him. I know I'm not capable to help out someone in this stiuation.

Any suggestions? He doesn't leave an email address, so everything is "reply" only. He did leave a phone number, but I know better thatn to call strange out-of-the-country phone numbers. I'm up for any good suggestions.

Randy

Aubreay,

Thanks for the input. This is his 3rd email to me, and he gets more and more needy as time goes on. I'm glad someone else has had a similar situation, not that I want him bothering anyone else either.

If he asks me how many girlfriends I have, I'll just tell him I can't tell. It might upset Ms. Ash.

Yeah, I know Ashley ... I wish!

Anyone else hear from this guy?

Ms. Ash,

You are toooooooooooo cool.

Ran

Joanne,

Another suggestion. As I was watching "Silverado" again the other night on the tube, the two brothers, at the last scene, ride away from the rest of the family to find their fortune in California. Kevin Costner's character turns around in the saddle and yells "We'll be back".

Think Sequel. Can't spell it, but I know what to call it!

Well, fellow scribes, as of tomorrow, I am off to Lake Arrowhead for a much needed vacation away from the day job, and a writer's retreat for me and my trusty new laptop.

Funding for the short DV is pending, and I do not want to wait by the phone for news. I'm taking the "Heroes & Villains" short script, it's added scenes and expanded characters/relationships to create the ninty minute version, and my favorite Treatment, (code name "DD") who also deserves the feature length script.

Up early, breakfast with the locals, back to the laptop, attack with prose, story building ,etc., soup and sandwiches for lunch, continue the key pounding, and finally late dinner at the locals hangouts and fun little bar in Cedar Glen.

Repeat 5 times.

I am sooooo ready for this time away and back to my beloved favorite thing to do! Mountain air, hot coffee early in the a.m., review another chapter of McKee's "Story" and perhaps Vogler's "Journey", and perhaps even a cold beer in the middle of the afternoon!

I will even plug in my laptop to the internet, upon occasion, to check up on the comings and goings of the everyday work-a-day world, which I shall begrudgingly return to at the end of next week, but not until my mission is accomplished.

Head 'em up....move 'em out!

I was reading this, and starting to think maybe they have a good idea...

right up to the part where they require a "two drink minimum".

Don't suppose they'd let you BYOB?

Sorry to drag out this old string, but Matt, you didn't have a profile for me to contact you directly.

I'm, once again, going to Orange County on business, and I have some time to visit eFront Media. What was the final out come (or to date) status of "Get-A-Life" screenwriting contest? I'll be glad to go and knock on the door and try to eyeball this Dana Franklin.

Just click on my profile & send me a response if you are tired of this subject.

I just got back from my investigative trip to Costa Mesa, CA, previous home to eFront Media. Yes, that's right; doors all locked up, phone disconnected and the Security Officer I befriended says they moved out "quickly"...read overnight. No new forwarding address.

There were over 20 people listed as members of "eFront Media", but no Dana Franklin listed at all. The CEO of eFront "was" Mike Frue and the CFO "was" Wm. R. Schmidt (bill@efront.com)

Sorry there was no positive information gleaned from my visit, but at least we know a few names to be wary of.

Matt, how is your lawsuit filing against Franklin proceeding? Bet he'll be hard to find as well.

This is yet another reason why I avoid screenwriting competitions like the plague.

Randy

Yes, Mom. We're going.

Last one to the park is a __________(fill in the blank, but no whiney voices allowed).

Oops, almost forgot the clean underwear part.

Ashley,

"The standard has been this aging, out of shape, 40-50 something, balding white collar type, whose wife/lady is a trim, attractive, youthful and stylish vixen compared to her frumpy hubby. "

Yes, Ma'am, you called?

(yelling into the next room) "Tina, she called you a vixen ...and you won't like what she called me."

"Catherine, the Great" is the understatement of the thread.

Peccadilloes, ya'll...not hang ups!

Miriam,

I agree. Renee Russo is one of the best actors around, and still beautiful to boot.

Since I live in LaLa land, I have the chance to see a few folks around, and may I say, Jaqueline Bissett is even more stunning out of heavy makeup (in the Vet's office) as ever. The number of incredibly attractive women over 40 is astonishing, which is good for me. I can't bear to date anyone under 35.

Did ya'll miss "Murphy's Romance"? Sally Field looking GREAT and James Garner not so bad!!

Can't wait until Sandra Bullock hits 35 or 40.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I will.

Writing good scripts for classy "dames" ( a non-pejorative and affectionate term) like Sophia Loren, Renee Russo, et. al. should be one of the things we writers have going for us. May I dare say, perhpas even those females on this thread who expressed their opinions?

A challenge? Take it as such. If you think there aren't enough good films with Renee or her co-horts, in them, then write them!

As a matter of fact, I think I pen a screenplay for Renee Russo, and write myself in as her love interest.

NOW WE'RE TALKING!!!

Gotta' go. Think I'll write the ending first.

RS,

The scene changes are for several reasons. One important reason is to tell the production crew, namely the cameraman (DP)(Sound, lighting, Art Designer, etc.), what the camera is looking at so they can do the set-ups. If there are four characters in a room, it can be just one scene. The Director or first AD will do the shot list to get the coverage they need for reaction shots.

Since you have included a situation of looking at the TV, you'll need to be specific about what is happening on the TV screen. You can use an "action" sentence to explain this. Describe what is going on in the TV sequence. You may have to actually list the TV performers dialog as well, especially if the "in the room actors" have to react to the television dialog. This is where you will cut to another scene, perhaps with a closeup of the TV screen. If you get too descriptive with your requirements, the Producer will think you are trying to do the Director's job.

If you intend to Direct this, you will cover this in your "Shot List".

You'll probably need to describe the scene in more detail to us so we can get a sense of what you intend to do with the scene and why the characters need to see the TV screen.

Good luck.

RR

D. Jay,

Glad you brought up this subject. (Ms. Ash and Melvin can start their own string of rants since their little criticisms don't have anything to do with this topic.)

I have a screenplay with a foot chase. I'm convinced that it should be a short chase due to the fact that the two "youts" are being chased by a 30ish female police officer who can still keep up with them, but it ends with a hostage scene and dialog. Originally I cast a 50 ish cop, her partner, to be in the chase as well, but since he's 50ish and smarter, I, er... make that "he" follows in the car. Since then I cast the part with a 30 ish male partner, but he still follows in the car because that is really proper Police procedure.

Good point D. Jay.

My peccadilloes include a sex scene thrown in for the "target market profile" so they will buy a ticket. This also includes excessive blood and gore and the "F" word and additional vulgarity to appeal to the same market. This approach of adding these "elements" is a standard set of "studio notes" from the majors, and will someday, hopefully soon, come back on them.

Miriam

Many thanks, Miriam. I have been two days now at the HFF Conferences, and have learned a lot from the real movers and shakers in this Tinseltown.

The lovley and talented Lisa B. and I sit next to each other and write notes about the great info and laugh at the insider jokes.

I have Chris Vogler's autograph on my personal copy of "the Writer's Journey", and have met some very good contacts for future realtionships in this personal journey of my own.

Tomorrow is "Writing for Hollywood" and "DealMaking in Hollywood", and will most probably be just as informative as the past two days.

Plan to be here next year. You cannot beeat the sheer talent of the panel members who have been invited and graciously consented to come and be a part of a great learing experience.

Miriam, I am now in your debt for this great opportunity to learn from the pro's.

Randy

Carl,

Run, do not walk, to the nearest Entertainment/Copyright attorney.

There is no other path. No one but they can give you correct advice.

Are you sure you really need to do this?

Recently I attended a book signing and short seminar by Rob Tobin for his new book, "How to Write High Structure, High Concept Moview". A step-by-step guide to writing structurally foolproof screenplays.

I highly recommend this book. It's only 180 pages and written in easy to understand concepts and points.It also has a great chapter on how to write your logline.

Make another slot in your bookcase for this book. It may be small, but the information inside is huge.

No; I do not receive commissions for my praise.

Colin,

No, you didn't spell it right, but with $25K, you merely have to order it right.

Voove Clikoooo, please.

Ron,

Congrat's!!! That is super.

I didn't do any pitches because I am in the middle of making a proposal to a brand new Prodco here in L.A., and I may get in on the ground floor of a Prodco with actual $ in the bank.

My friend has been appointed West Coast Director Of Development, and has given me the greenlight to shoot my first short sometime this fall.

I hope your pitch turns out to be a "go" for the script.

Good luck, fellow scribe.

Hey, ya'll. Well, here I am, back in the mountains for another week of writing without the common interruptions. I have started a new outline for a MOW. One of my contacts is interested in the story to be filmed up here (near Yosemite), and is in the process of funding. This time I am taking a friend's advice about writing the outline first.

I reviewed Skip Press' book, "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Screenwriting" chapter on writing outlines, as well as Wolf and Kerry's book, "Successful Script Writing". They are the only books I have that have any reference to outline writing.

I also reviewed the sections on the "7 act" MOW structure, and will try to adhere to that when I get to the script.

Any suggestions on outline writing?

Any suggestions on what a "step deal" might bring on such a movie for TV?

Oh, well. Easy come, easy go.

The MOW is now defunct, but the partner in the prodco likes the new premise, and says to keep writing. Maybe well go cable feature, he thinks. Things are still in the works, so I guess I dont' have to do the 7 - 14 minute acts for network.

Besides, the networks are too busy trying to script their boring "reality" shows. I don't think even good scriptwriters can save such trash TV.

Oops. Almost got on my soap box about the plight of network television.

Gotta' go. The outline is done, but I'm only on page ten of the screenplay. Gotta' plot out the inciting incident next.

Raz and Jerimiah,

You need to do your homework. Ideas cannot be copyrighted. Treatments, however can be registered with the WGA.

If you are whining about someone stealing your incrediblely saleable idea, get an education. Do not send the idea to anyone via the internet, Knucklehead. There is no way to verify the date, as it is too easy to cheat the date on an email.

Write a treatment, register it with WGA, and then find someone to pitch or write the screenplay and register the screenplay.

I am sooooooooo tired of whiners.

Randy

Best books? Easy. 1.)

Best books? Easy. 1.)

Best books? Easy. 1.)

Best books? Easy. 1.)

What the hey?????????????

Frederick. Sorry. I have no idea what happened. Sticky fingers? I'll put the peppermint stick down now.

1.) The Writer's Journey by Chris Vogler

2.) The Screenwriter's Bible by Trottier

3.) Story by Robt. McKee

4.) Making a Good Script Great by Linda Seger

5.) How to Wrtie High Structure, High Concept Movies by Rob Tobin

6.) The Complete Idiot's Guide to Screenwriting by Skip Press

I have a truckload more of books for filmmaking, but that's another website post.

Frederick, if you want to erase the previous posts that were a "mistake", it's o,k, by me (and it will keep me from looking too foolish. You know: save face.)

Thanks,

Randy

My Dad called me on Tuesday morning from Texas to wake me and tell me the news.

On Wednesday I called him again and said, "now I know how you felt on Dec. 7, 1941". I knew the criminals would be found out. Another website for filmmakers criticised me for knowing who they were. All is silent now that I was right. Doesn't take a rocket scientist. Real proof is on the way.

Today they found more terrorists who tried to board planes at La Guardia and in Boston. Hundreds of lives were saved by their arrests.

Thousands of Police, Firemen and volunteers are working around the clock...risking their lives in order to find more survivors. The heroism continues...and I am not surprised.

I could never live in New York. I'm too much a country boy. BUT, I LOVE NEW YORKERS. They are cut of such a tough cloth. God knows, I pray for them and consider them to be some of God's finest children.

I am an ex-American Airlines Flight Attendant. Getting into the cockpit is not that hard. The AAL and United Flight Attendants were stabbed and perhaps killed in order to get to the cockpit. Those were my kin. I will never forget their sacrifice.

We will respond by acknowledging the war against us. We will respond, and we will hate the carnage that will be a part of it, but it is WAR. We will stop, somehow, the terrorism, and it's heartless, souless, religious fanatics who give their religion such a bad name. I will double my efforts to understand my fellow Americans who are Muslim, and would never condone such actions against the innocent. I promise to never blame you for the actions of fanatic fundamentalism.

This is the greatest country in the world. New patriotism will return, and we will regain the control of our lives we, as a nation, so richly deserve. This country will survive, and will become stronger for having to go through such heartless, and cruel evil. Our lives will change forever, and we will never forget the sacrifice, the heroism and the long road to recovery.

God Bless you and your family.

Gos Bless America.

Randy Roberts

I have been communicating with a new Production Co. (to be) for about four months. According to my contact, the new Director of Development, they are being organized at this time and will be vested with at least $10M to start. I sent them my short script "Heroes & Villains" four months ago. (about the same time I sent it off for copyright, which the form just came back this week) My contact, (let's call him) Jack, liked the script, and said he would help me raise the money to shoot my first short. Jack even offers me a salaried job to help start the prodco once they are ready to go in L.A.

Next they asked for the feature length version, so I took off for a long weekend and did the 90 pages. A month later Jack says he has a major Hollywood writer/Producer who wants a 2 hour pilot script, could I make "H&V" into a dramatic series. Again a long weekend and I converted the script into a continuing series for television series and a 2 hour pilot.

Last week Jack calls, says the new VP (to be) loves the script (feature length) and considers me to be a good writer & should help co-write their gangster flick with a new writer from another state. The new V.P. also will greenlight the feature length script "H&V" and will get me a good budget for it.

I call the new writer, Mark, and we hit it off and start from his extensive research and first hand knowledge of the subject matter. Mark will start the first several pages of a treatment.

Since I have never had a partner in writing before, I call a good friend, an Entertainment Attorney, and ask if he has a boilerplate Agreement for writing partners. He emails me a "Collaboration Agreement" to review and write as Mark and I want. At this time my friend also chastises me for doing re-writes on Heroes & Villains without an option agreement at least and for no money.

I call Jack back the next day and tell him I like Mark, and he and I have started the process, and "oh,yeah, I asked my attorney friend for some info on a "Collaboratioin Agreement". Jack hits the roof. "You are getting the cart before the horse. You are too Hollywood. Mark has had a very tough year and he doesn't need this kind of pressure. You are in too big of a hurry and are 'too hungry'. I'm through talking to you now," and hangs up the phone. I'm dumbfounded.

I speak to Mark, and he says, don't worry, Jack has overreacted because Jack is very protective of him.(Mark)

Two days later I call Jack to see if he has cooled off, and he says, "No, I'm through with you". Again he resonds to the "too Hollywood...cart before the horse...too much pressure on Mark..." etc. I do my best to control my exasperation, and assure him that my asking for an attorney's advice on a Collaboration Agreement would protect everybody's interest, not just mine. Jack says he'll call the V.P. and Mark and decide over the weekend what they will do.

I have confided in several writer friends and they tell me to dump this group and take to the streets with the script(s). My Attorney friend will introduce me to a few agents who might be interested.

In one week I am greenlighted for my first script, assigned to assist another writer and then dumped for being business like and looking for a collaboration agreement for a writer I have yet to meet.

I chalk this up to my believing someone who says he likes my script well enough to greeenlight it, blinds me into doing a lot of work on no option and the promise of a salaried job so I can quit my day job to be able to write more. Pretty dumb, huh? That ol' carrot sure worked pretty good on this old boy, didn't it?

At least I have one story and three full scripts of different lengths and versions. I re-registered the feature length script with the WGA again lst Friday.

I anticipate that Jack will call sometime this week and will tell me everything is off and remind me of how I "have a problem". His version of my problem is that "I'm too hungry" and can't be trusted if I have consulted an Attorney. My version of my problem is that I was too flexible to assist a new startup prodco so I could get in on the ground floor and willing to do additional writes just to please those who make the decision to say "yes" to my project.

If Jack calls back and says they still want to do "Heroes & Villains", I will be very wary, and not agree to anything unless it is in writing and reviewed by my Attorney.

I still think it's time to hit the streets with the script and look for another path to travel for my first script. What would you do in this situation?

Melvin,

To be accurate, I already had the story down in the 25 page short script. I had written about 9-10 more befreothe weekend, and it actually did 50+ pages in 3-1/2 days.

The last time I took off for 9 days and did a 6 page outline and the first 32 pages of a new script. That's about as prolific as I can get, and it all has to be "out of town" and not worrying about my day job.

Steven,

I appreciate your comment. The short is copyrighted and the long version feature length is registered with the WGA. There was no verbal or formal contract with this Prodco (to be). Only a request for me to submit a feature length screenplay for consideration. I did submit "H&V" for them to see and they liked it and gave me a non-commital comment that they would like to raise the funding for it. At no time did I receive any formal suggestions or was promised any pay for any work. The work I preformed was solely on my decisions to do so.

They do not have any chance in hell of producing my work. They do not have any written or verbal ok's from me. If necessary I will tell them I will no longer offer this work for their consideration, but my Attorney is not concerned with them being able to produce my screenplay. He knows that I have covered my bases with the copyright and WGA registration.

Do you have any reason to think I don't? Let me know.

Steven,

Almost forgot. I have not done any writing yet on the "gangsters" script, so I don't have any rights to it. The other writer is not to be blamed at all. He is a good guy and was only respecting "Jack's" suggestion that we work together. The original story is Mark's, and I would never interfere with his right to the story.

As for the name of the Prodco, let's just let them ride until the final chapter plays out. Let's see if they still want me next week.

I spent several days in Austin this summer to go to a wedding. One suggestion, if you want to sleep between the hours of 1:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m.: Do not get a room in the downtown area on the "street" side. The "children" @ UT are on the streets racing between street lights and the cops are all over 6th street arresting the other "children" who are drunk and trying to drive. Anarchy reigns in the streets of Austin on Friday and Saturday nights. I feel for the suckers who bought expensive condos in downtown Austin.

Ms. Ash,

No spiders and sankes, other htan the norm HOWEVER, there are the bats under the city bidge near the river walk that leave at dusk (somewhere between 700-2,000 of 'em).

Don't worry. I understand that Melvin has booked his room under the bridge with them. That ought to drive them out of town early.

Couldn't resist.

Melvin,

If you consider taking a "shot" at you as being aligning with Ms. Ash, consider it the VOLLEY.

You are a pompous ASS, and she is only pouring gasoline on a trash fire. Do not consider yourself as anything serious as a writer on this BB. You are NEVER a choice when it comes to you vs. any of the serious writers on this BB, let alone Ashley.

I suggest, in vain, you try to glean any good information on this excellent message board (Again, Thank you, Frederick) and stop your immature flaming of one of it's more talented members. The simple and almost innocuous poke at you was done in jest, and if you take it so seriously as to align someone with your "enemy", you are the one who must not be taken seriously.

May I suggest you join the childish rants and raves at another message board where they are never taken seriously. Most of the serious professionals who are striving for a successful career here on this message board only tolerate you, at best.

At this time amy your browser state "disconnect me now", and save us all from your inane posts.

I used to be subtle when I was younger.

"amy" vs. "may".

Frederick, how much does it cost to get the super-duper membership which includes a splell check?

I mean spell check?

I recently went to a memorial service for a dear friend. She was only 58 years old and when the Doctor told her she only had a month or so to live due to the rapid spread of cancer reocurring from a surgery from less than a year ago. She passed wtihin only 3 days of the notice, and the morning of the day I was scheduled to visit her in the hospital.

A week and a half ago, another good friend passed out at work and the Doctors said he had two brain seizures within the day. He is recovering and undergoing extensive therapy to regain his basic abilities. He is only 7-8 years older than I am.

There is a history of strokes in my family, and according to the Doctors, my blood pressure and cholesterol levels are unacceptable, so I am working out and trying to change my eating habits to get back into shape without the use of beta blockers.

Cheap shot, Melvin. I know you didn't know, but such "over the line" comments are funny only to you. I made fun of you as someone who could drive out bats, but you chose to make a comment that wished someone would have a "stroke", and you might as well have fun at it. Did you have fun?

I almost let this one go, but with my recent history of loosing a good friend too early in her life and almost loosing another, it hit home a little too close.

After observing your attempts at humor, I'm convinced that you truly thought that comment was funny. Perhaps I am just tyring to show you that some of us don't ever find that "type" of humor appropriate. I'm sure you will try to explain away your comments, but I doubt they will convince me.

John,

Go back and re-read. I made a "light hearted" comment about Melvin scaring off the bats: considerably less offensive than any of his comments, and he, in turn, began the personal assaults, including the stoke comment. It was not until then I weighed in. I suggest you go back up the thread and review the account in order.

If you feel it important enough to come to Melvin's defense, just remember, I was only coming to Ashley's defense.

Do you really want this thread to continue? I respect your right to voice an opinion, but Melvin went over the line and created a new border. Surely you do not support his comments, but only his right to make them. (?) You also have the right to support anyone you wish. I do not choose to support anything he has written here.

If you are looking for a withdrawl of my comments, it will not be forthcoming.

Craig,

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Staples? No one in a production co. will read anything that isn't properly formatted or presented. Washers are NOT wanted due to several reasons the production co's deem important. Ask them.

If you want your script to be tossed in the round file, do it any way you like.

If you want to have your script read, ask the prodco's what their standards are, and then comply. Agents and production co's don't like amateurs. They figure if you aren't serious enough to do some homework about how they do business, they don't want to see your script.

I agree that it's what's inside that counts. I just don't want anything on the outside to keep them from discovering the inside good stuff.

Craig,

You said that you were right, so I guess that the rest of us are wrong. Darn. I thought that all that research I did from sitting in classes, buying books and talking to Prodco's was time and money well spent. If I had just asked you first, I could have saved so much time and money and effort.

I have purchased so many reams of three hole punch printer paper that it will be several years before I go to toilet paper.

Next time I submit to a Prodco, I'll be sure to add "Craig said it wasn't important, so I didn't do it".

Maybe you should copy Skip Press. His book "The Complete Idiots Guide to Screenwriting", pages 288-290 in reference to the use of brass brads and no washers and the reasons why Hollywood Production companies expect it. He needs to revise the years of practice he has on how to do it your way. I'm sure he'll appreciate it.

Craig,

You have no profile, so how do I know you are really a person, let alone an experienced Prodco person. As for Skip Press, I can only go on what he has written, not what you allegedly say he has haunted on a webiste. Have him contact me personally. At least he can contact me as per my email. You, however, are a ghost, and no one can reach the allegeded Craig except on this thread.

Why are you like a dog with a bone? Your washers are your Achilles tendon.

Give it a rest. You can use all the damn washers you want. You can choke on the stupid things you want. The rest of us who read competent books and trust accomplished screewriters can do what the hell we want. To hell with you and your rants. Washer all you want. I do not care how much you alledege you have read. No wonder I hear about the readers from hell on this website. Perhaps you are one of them. I do care about Prodco's, and what they expect. I do respect the books vs. what you say. Why should I take anything you say as gospel?

Washer all you want, Craig. Save it for your own self.

Steve,

Thanks for the unemotional input. You are getting really good at that. (This, by the way, is a compliment.)

I, on the other hand, have just been developing the "thicker skin" lately.

I also grew tired of the "to washer or not" stuff. Doesn't really bother me. I just thoght Skip Press made some good suggestions in his book, and many of the screenwriting books have good tips to glean from them.

Write well, ya'll.

Randy

Marc,

I think David's post pretty well sums it up. I, similar to you, wanted to get in on the ground floor of a brand new prodco to be set up here in L.A. I was very helpful to the new Dir. of Development, plus he and the new V.P. really loved my short script, so they suggested that I "finish" the feature length version. I did.

Next I hear that I'm going to get a salaried position in the startup and a first look opportunity, but would it be possible to show a new "experienced" Producer/Writer my script, but in a 2 hour pilot form? Would I send them a new version with a re-write to include re-occuring characters, etc? I did.

Next was, "can you assist this other closely-related-to-me writer with his Treatment, because we like your writing and we like his story?" I would.

Did all the promises come true? No. The moment I mentioned I had consulted with an Entertainment Attorney about a "collaborative agreement", I was unceremouneously dumped, and told my cops & gangs in East L.A. script would be put on the back burner for at least 2 years. (they had not even offered any option money to date)

David is right. I chose to draw the line in the sand. No more freebees. The only thing I am writing as per any request is the 2 page synopsis of the new script, which is generating interest, and by other prodco's in the biz, already existing in L.A.

I choose the professional route. Zero Gravity will not be only my Query list. That's the power of this message board. We can find out about "non-professional" tactics by some people out there.

It's your call, Marc. Good luck.

Write well. Sell well. Live well.

Randy

I've been working like hell, damn it!

Should read "Like hell I've been working!"

C'mon Ash. You are preaching to the choir.

Sorry, but there are those who lurk here who are dependent on your reparte to jog them awake between scenes. No body's fault but your own. You vounteered the quick wit and response to a few who deserved all they got. When we don't hear from you we go into withdrawls.

Now back to Act II, scene 44, and the destruction of the subplot the audience thinks they need. My, my, isn't this fun!

Ran

Ehnnnh! Thank you for playing, Terry. Good answer, but never the less, incorrect.

The 2nd-2nd is only found on a very large shoot (feature, good budget) and usually means you have a shot that includes "a cast of thousands", a.k.a. a lot of extras. The normal feature or TV shoot has one 2nd A.D. that handles all the "background actors", but on a large scene you need an additional hand to "wrangle" a large crowd. Many "extra co's." will also send someone in charge of the crowd to assist the 2nd-2nd.

I spent a year and a half as a "background actor" before I wised up. Good experience though, and it got me a SAG card.

Hope this helps.

Randy

I've decided to submit my newest script to Lisa. With naysayers like Nail and Craig, it's got to be worth the $65 bucks just to get any reasonable response. Those good people who have submitted to Lisa seem to really relish the response, and the naysayers will always be with us. It is our enjoyable duty to proceed in spite of criticisms by the negative and to glean experience from others who would help our endeavors.

To tell you the truth, I'm really looking forward to the learning experience. I anticipate Lisa will help me the best she can, and I know that's a hell of a lot more than Craig or his negative cohorts would offer.

Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.

Happy Holidays All! And to all , a good night!

Randy

Paula,

Nope. Lady Soul is actually saying "TCB"; "taking care of business". Have to say I'm old enough to have sung those lyrics while dancing to it when she came out with such a great song in the 60"s. Course if someone has Aretha's home phone number, I'll go with her answer.

Ashley, where do you get such lyrics?

"I'm not talking 'bout moving in, and I don't want to change your life, but there's a warm wind blowing the stars around I'd love to be with you tonight".

I kmow that one for sure, 'cause if my girl Judie had agreed to those lyrics, I'd been moving to Sausalido in 1976 and been married within a year or two. She said "no", but we are still friends to this day. Still a great song, too.

Anything else I can clear up for you young folks about great music from the 60's and 70's?

(har-har)

Randy

p.s. can we start another string, cause this one is too long and has a lot of @#$$&%^*@#$ in it?

I was never allowed to move to Sausalito because I mispelled it too many times. Now they won't let me eat the cookies of the same name either.

Ashley...oh...whatever.

If I can mess up the spelling of CA towns, you can convolute lyrics.

Merry Christmas to all of us who observe it. Happy Chanukkah to all my Jewish friends and happy Holidays to everyone else.

Randy

If you get a warning from a "friend" who says they sent you a virus by mistake and it cannot be detected by Norton, et.al., it is a hoax.

Check http://securityresponse.symantic.com for the facts. The file, sulfnbk.exe, is a windows file that you will need. DO NOT DELETE IT.

Miriam,

Boy, you got me there. Doesn't ring a bell at all.

"tada to the left of me, tada to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you."

Sorry, it was the cup of Christmas cheer last night that is still affecting me this a.m. Darn thing was never empty.

Neither will this morning's cup of coffee be empty!

Hope someone else has a better recollection of that one. That's a real stumper, Miriam.

Way to go, Daphne!

McCartney song, but I had a case of the fuzzies the other day.

Left wing baths? Think I'll stay of that one.

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays, everyone!

Randy

Frederick,

"You're a good man, Charlie Brown."

The best of wishes for a 2002. Thanks for making such a great site for us to pursue our dreams. God Bless you and your family.

Randy

O.K., ya'll. I'll kick off the new year by making my goals public. Nothing like committment and sticking your neck out in public to make you work harder.

1.) Write 4 new feature length scripts from my list of scripts to be developed. 2.) Sell 3 scripts (options do not count) 3.) Shoot 2 short scripts on DV 4.) Get an agent or manager, whichever will work the hardest for me. 5.) Go from a full time job to part time and make my Writing/Directing full time pursuit.

Other goals are personal and will stay that way.

Add your goals here if you like. Of course there will be the sarcastic smart a** comments from those who do not take their careers seriously or the goals of others seriously, so ignore them and look forward to a great year.

Have a Happy New Year.

Randy

"I will not travel where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail." Muriel Strade

Steven,

Sounds like 2001 was a very good year for you. With your goals for 2002, it will probably be better. I agree about the agent part.

Ms Ash,

I know and understand.

Sean,

Smart man, and don't forget. Actually you can forget. Ashley will remind you if you do.

Brian,

I'm sure you're right about representation. The list isn't in any specific order.

When Lisa gets back from her vacation, we're sending out the Query from Venice Arts for my most recent script. I also have a short list of agents recommended to me from a Ent. Attorney who has read some of my past work.

As far as 3 sales vs. less, if you only shoot for 1 or 2 sales, that's all you'll try for. Set your sights high and then do the best you can. If I sell my first one and then begin negotiations for another, I'd be successful, but why not "go for the brass ring"?

This is going to be a good year. I hope it will be for everyone.

Randy

Josh,

You are very prolific, perhaps to a fault. You only need a good pilot to sell a series.

A "Bible" is a set of guidelines that includes the cast of characters and their "backstories", so to speak, that include their relationships with the other characters in the series.

This "Bible" is used by a staff of writers, who use it, to write the ongoing episodes with the guidelines set for by the "Bible".

For example, check out the next episode of your favorite dram or sitcom, list the characters, their backstories, and their current relationships with the other characters in the "play".

Outside writers, experienced in either dramatic or sitcoms, are then recruited or encouraged to use the "Bible" to write spec's for the series.

Perhaps someone here has the experience of being a writer as such. You might also check out "Done Deal" message board and the technical section.

Best of luck. And...don't show them everything at once. Tease them with a great 2 hour pilot and then start feeding them a couple at a time to rein them in.

Randy

Ms. Ash,

Appartently not. Tried it, but no results.

Randy

Kevin,

I'm going to cut you a little slack, since you do not know anything about me or my history. Just a "little" though.

You said it "doesn't do any good to set goals that aren't attainable." You assessment of what goals are or are not attainable for another person is a bit presumptuous on your part, and borders on arrogance. I have achieved many lofty goals in my life, and I am an optimist, and know myself well enough that if I set my goals too low, I will become bored with them because they do not present enough of a challenge. I am also old enough to be realistic and not get down on myself when I do not reach the final "numbers."

But this really isn't about me. It's about your attitude. For one, you are way too verbose, and many of your factual statements are merely opinions, perhaps planted by your overeducation at the "ACHTOR'S STUUUDIO" by negative professors who try to talk their students into being clones of themselves. Don't really know, and really don't care. I just know that negative people, like your attitude shown above, are intended to suck the life's blood out of people who tend to look at life with a more positive attitude. When it comes to those kind of people, we just let you rant, ignore your final input, smile, and let you be on your way. We can't allow that kind of negativism to interrupt our journey.

Don't think for one minute that I am some "head in the clouds" Dudley DoRight who hasn't a clue. You would, again, be innacurate.

This website is for those of us on the journey, who are here to: 1.) learn 2.) network 3.) support our peers 4.) at times argue a point, but concede that there are many ways to accomplish our goals differently. 5). consider the advertisers on this website who can make our journey a little better (like that one, Frederick?)

As far as attaching talent and going to a production co., most of us here have either read those books, taken that seminar, or argued the pro's and con's here on this message board. You are a day late and a $ short on that long winded lecture.

I suggest that your anticipate that many of us here are intelligent and well educated in this field to pursue this career. Your tendency to lecture us on how we can best be as good as you are is the arrogant part. (this is the part where I don't cut you any slack.) I also suggest that you do find this large amount of time on your hands to do something those of us here would love to do more of; write a screenplay.

I, for one, don't really need the verbose lectures from someone I don't know. If your resume includes real experience in actually writing screenplays or better yet, SELLING them, please send me a "free" ticket to your next lecture/seminar. I'll be on the front row sitting with Steven and between Miriam and Ashley. Oh, and the first one to leave when the arrogant part comes up again.

Apologies for the length of the resposne, but there was a LOT to respond to. (pardon the dangling participle)

Randy

Has anyone any information on Scriptrep.com, other than what's offered in the MovieBytes info?

Anyone enter last year. Deadline is Tuesday, Jan. 15, 2002.

Kevin,

Apology accepted. Maybe toooo many "sorry's", but I understand. I consider it to be the mark of a good person to admit mistakes and step up to the bar and take responsibility. You earned a truckload of points in your favor.

We all have a lot to learn, and, as in college, I ususally learn more from my peers than my college professors.

As for the "dig" at the Actor's Studio, I am a huge fan of theirs, and have the utmost of respect for the TV program on Bravo television. I love the one hour long interviews with not only the actors (is Kevin Spacey funny or what?) but Directors as well, like Spielberg, Eastwood and Howard.

I'm glad you can bring another dimension to the boards. Jump in, anytime. God knows you'll soon start to develop the "thickingus skinikus" necessary to become a Screen Writer.

Regards,

Randy

I told Kevin I would cut him some slack. Craig gets NONE.

As I mentioned in the original post, we will get stuff like what Craig is always spouting. He will jump in any time to go after me. His comments seem coherent at times, but they are solely a personal attack. Craig and I will never see eye to eye due to our huge differences in perspectives, but as far as his comments are concerned, they are of no value to me. Kevin's comments are far more valuable than Craig's.

My comments about "options don't count" was taken out of coherent understanding. Options, to me, are NOT sales, and therefore do not count towards my goals for this year. Options can be good in some instances, but you should never set an "option" as a goal. It's like asking for someone to pay you a pitance for sitting on a good project for a "too" long period of time. We don't write a script just to go to development hell. It should not be a part of your overall goals for the year.

"NAIVE". You Jackass. Who the hell are you to call anyone that? I know the odds. They do not keep me from my goals. I know the business and the odds. You can be a part of the bottom statistics. I choose not to give into that. You do not understand the difference between realism and negativism, of which you continuously spew on this message board.

The original post was not a target for you to shoot down. It was a challenge for others to make a committment to try harder and reach farther this year than in the past. This concept is beyond your understanding. Your opinions of me and my goals are of so little concern, they will get no further comments from me. Your input as to how I conduct myself or my business is worthless. It is of no value, because it was never intended to be of value to anyone other than yourself.

Kevin, this is the crap you have to put up with when dealing with some other writers. Not only do you have to develop the thick skin, you also have to stand up for yourself to others who will always try to condemn you in any way in order to build themselves up. In some sense other writers will be of great help. In other ways, such as the above post, they will only try to keep you from achieving your goals if they can.

"Stay the course. Damn the torpedoes"... and those who would launch them.

Randy

D.J.,

Miriam is right. There is no fool proof way to do this. My current script I'm working on is taking a long time for several reasons. Right now I'm working at two jobs because I'm leaving one design co. for another, but I won't desert my clients. I have to finish their (7) projects.

I started the Treatment for this script four years ago, but at that time, I had never written a script. The story was too godd to be used for my first screenplay, so I put it on the shelf until I felt comfortable enough with my skills.

The best way for me to write is to get out of town. In August I drove to N. California near Yosemite and stayed for 9 days. During that time I wrote an 11 page Outline and the first 38 pages. I finished the script on weekends by Oactober, and it is currently "out there" getting attention. One Sunday I sat down and actually wrote 22 pages of dialog and action. That is the exception. I ususally am happy with the 6-8 pages per day, which seems to be the goal of a lot of people I've met.

I have a reward for selling my first script. When it sells, I wll rent a new house with a guest house a little further out of town, and then only work Tues.-Thurs. at my day job, and use the guest house as my studio to write the Fri.-Mon. I believe that schedule will fill my temperment best.

Oh, yeah. Goals need a game plan, which include a reward as well. One reason my first goal is so important is that it not only changes my lifestyle drastically, it actually helps me to continue to achieve my other career goals. My overall goal is to exchange my vocation for my avocation and vice versa. That way I can still do my design for important projects, but my new writing career will be my mainstay.

I also agree with Miriam about the marketing. That's the most difficult part for us first-timers. Once we have one good successful script sold, people are a little more willing to read the next.

Josh,

When I was 14 I wanted to be an architect. I took drafting classes, a lot of math and Trig. (yech!) and found a good Architectural college. That was a five year degree that took me 6 1/2 years for a varitey of reasons. When I graduated from college I had to work my "apprenticeship" for another 5 years before I could take the state licensing exam, which actually took me another 3 times (3 years) to pass. By the time I had my license I was 30, and REALLY appreciated how hard it was to get such a good career.

My point is 13 is NOT to young to START. A full fledged writing career at 13 is too young to hope for. I do, however have some things for you to ponder and consider. I am going to encourage you to pursue some research for a possible career, starting now.

We have an old saying "write what you know". I have a huge advantage over you. I'm 53 and have lived longer and know more about the stuff I have done and observed others doing. I've also read a lot more books. I've just had more time. BUT, you have a great advantage in that you are 13, and know more about your generation than I do. You can use this advantage to help you write a good screenplay or even play.

In the 1930's and 40's there were a lot of films starring Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney. They were teenagers and when something in the neighborhood or school needed money to solve the problem, the would all get together and brainstorm and say "let's put on a show". We laugh about it today, but it is honestly a great refelction of the teenage enthusiasm that once drove entire generations to become successful. They would put on a "show" casting all parts for the young teens, and then put posters all over town for everyone to come and buy a ticket to see the "show".

You could take this idea and perhaps do one of two things. You could write a play about your generation, give it to your Drama Teacher, and request permission to put the play on in front of students, Faculty, Parents and the entire community. You could help select the cast with your Teacher and then either act or be an Asst. Director. In this day of digital, you could even write a screenplay about your generation, cast it your self and shoot it on digital for very little money (hire your Parents as Exec. Producers), and submit to film festivals.

The reason for this is to answer your question "will Producers take me seriously?" They will if you are successful. If you put on a school play you wrote or win an award at a local film festival, or even Sundance (aim high), the pres will be allover it and Producers WILL take you seriously.

Taht being said, you could also NOT win the award, but still be successful in acheiving a goal of writing a screenplay or play and seeing it come to fruition (like the first building I designed).

One virtue all writers must acquire is patience. A good virtue for anyone to acquire is to work for delayed gratification. Start your writing now, and don't be in too much of a hurry to have overnight success. The harder the success is to attain, the more you will appreciate it.

Hollywood also doesn't have a long lasting appreciation for those who just "fell" into success. There is a great deal of respect here for those who have "earned" it.

I'm sure your Parents are proud of you to look for such a lofty goal for your age. If we can assist you in any way, ask. I wish for you the best, and hope you will take my words as encouraging you to persevere.

Good luck, Josh.

Randy

Taking this

I just got a request to sned copy of script after signing the proverbial release. Anyone know anything about Shelley. She is listed as an agent.

Thanks,

Randy

Dumb jokes corner?

O.k.

What kind of cheese isn't yours?

"Nacho" cheese.

Ashley,

1.) Do you know why gorillas have such big nostrils?

They have big fingers.

2.) Do you know how to make holy water?

Boil the hell out of it.

3.) What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?

A stick.

That's three goodun's by my count.

Randy

"Surely you can't be serious."

"Of course I am. And don't call me Shirley".

Thanks, Brian.

This is great info. In this town, you never know who's on the up and up. I'm glad to hear of her professionalism.

I've been burned before by a manager for my acting gig. In the un-regulated field of "management", you need advice from your peers. I'll mail the release and script to her as per her request.

Thanks again, Brian. I owe you one.

Randy

p.s. When are you moving back to L.A.?

Since you (I Seeeeee), are incognito, you could just be starting a rumor.

Maybe, if it is true, it is a good thing for Marc, and perhaps all parties involved.

May I recommend that since we do not know who "I Seeee" is, and Marc Hernandez has not volunteered any reaponse, that we take this tidbit of info with a "grain of salt".

People move around this biz. Sometimes they start their own agency or management company, (Benderspink for example), and we writers are the better for it.

I reserve any judgement until Mark volunteers any "non-rumor" information.

Randy

Steven,

Again, you and I are in agreement in reference to this little **** like "I Seeee", who is completely non-credulous and has no weight with any of us due to his "hiding under the covers" style of personal attacks. If he were credible he would be honest and straight forward. We know there are many unsuccessful in the agency biz, and will do anything to slam someone who has been successful, be it rumor, outright lies or half truths.

I do not know Marc Hernandez. Never met him or submitted to him. I'm going to consider this just a swipe at someone by a hidden shadow who leaves little tales of woe to "try" and harm others, whether they deserve it, or not.

As for getting in the know of Junior Exec's., I'm sure I'll never be there. Why would I ever want to get into the arena of Junior Exec's? What a incrediblely insane remark.

I couldn't help but notice...do you always stutter when you are lying or nervous? Three attempts to get out an insult. Better pay attention here. There are those of us on this message board who don't need three attempts to fire off a volley.

Ashley,

I have already said if it is true, it happens in any business, including the agencies around town.

What is irritating is this little **** who posts in secret as if he has just given away some dirty little secret that will start a rumor mill as to the reason why Mr. Hernandez is "out". This town is full of sneaky little ***'s who thrive on gossip and love to see others hurt so they can feel better about their sorry, pathetic little lives.

The use of this board for spreading rumors is a great missuse of it's abilities. Those who would use the message board for rumors, innuendos and half-truths are always lurking in the shadows; waiting for opportunities to lie and harm others. That's what is upsetting, and as such, needs to be addressed. I've seen such on others message boards, and it can be very destructive when missused by the likes of "I Seee", who in fact, really doesn't...

Randy

I Seee,

"...keep you "hole" closed..."

Sounds like a bit of a power trip and a veiled threat to me.

When a person has an honest opinion and expresses it as such on this message board, the First Amendment comes into play. If you are saying that I should not express my opinions on this board because they are in conflict with yours, well...you can guess my response.

I have no regard for those who choose to remain anonymous while making statements not yet proven to be fact, and more important, if it is true, the real reason. Your "simple fact" report sets the tone for innuendo (still something ignored by you and those who blindly give credit to your anonymity) and, as I previously stated, can start a rumour mill that can harm people when it gets out of hand. I revently saw it create a very big problem on another filmmaker website.

If you had come forward with your real name and stated such, I might have less of a problem, but, of course, you would have the problem with your employers. I'm sure they would say it is unprofessional for you to make public something that is none of your business, and such an announcement belongs to Mr. Hernandez and Zide/Perry. As for doing a civic duty, I doubt if your information will make anyone's day. Let's face it...you are a gossip, not a revered "whistle blower". You are no Matt Drudge.

As for threatening me with your veiled threat to make sure my future scripts will never make it to the Producer, you have no power over me. You would not be a team member I would care to be a part of.

I've said my piece, and will find more relevant topics to be a part of.

Back to the business of writing and learning something of value.

Maybe we should just encourage them to raise their fees to compensate for such good coverage and encourage them that in doing so, they may become the "top 5" now instead of the "top 4" contests.

Good contests are hard to come by, and we writers need to encourage the better contests to persevere and grow to become better. We are, after all, their bloodline.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is my great pleasure to announce the next award to a very deserving person, who has gardnerd the award by her timeless suffering and hard work to achieve and countless number of times she has help new rookies in our craft, the "SAGE" award for Moviebytes to ... Marleiene Pacilio !!!!!!!!!!

(Applause, applause, applause!)

Please stand for the SRO proper attendance.

Marleine,

The extra "e" was for all the "E"xtra info we get from you...we get soooo excited.

As for D.G. : "Naughty Bobs"?

Get a grip. Back to your hovel.

Joan,

I do not agree with a great deal of your "NSHO"'s, as I watched the Russians and the Canadians, and I saw the lack-luster, tepid, emotionless, souless and downright boring Russian skaters. I watched and excellent program skated by the Canadians (the first I've seen it, so I can't say how many times they skated the same porgram before.)

You did leave out one sort-of significant point. The French judge admitted to "bowing to pressure". In other words, (and more accurate) she is a corrupt cheat. Unfortunately this sport has had it's share of corruption for many years. The Russsians have ALWAYS been a part of the corruption. This time someone actually admitted to cheating. It's hard for me to understand how you can overlook this point in order to make your case that the Russians are a "better" team. Ignore the fact of admitted cheating?

You also missed Ashley's point altogether. Her point was:

"Why don’t some people care to do what’s right? How can anyone live with themselves, without integrity, morals and a sense of justice? "

No one asked about your taking on the replacement role of the French judge.

I don't care where you were born and bred; you didn't address the part about integrity.

Your opinion may be "humble", but it failed to include the points of discussion. Your lengthy entry of how the judging was done had that big 'ol gap in it about the admission of corruption. THAT was Ashley's point, and I, for one, with a NSHO, agree with her.

Joan,

I give up on you. You are so blind to the series of events for at least the last 25-30 years of the figure skating Olympics.

What you refer to as a pimple turned staff infection is actually a cancer that has been constant in the skating judging for those many years. You are in denial, and that isn't the river. You'd rather recreate the events as you remember with your blinders on and ignore the blatant cheating. As for those of us who aren't experts, you certainally discounted Scott Hamilton's expertise very quickly. I think he has more than earned his right to have an EXPERT opinion on skating.

Again, the point is someone cheated and the changed the color of the medals. What you don't see is that iff the French had cheated the Russians instead of the Canadians, the same Americans would still be pissed at the actions of the cheating judge.

Americans usually take pride in standing up for what's right for not only Americans, but everyone else as well. Why else would we fight Serbs who tried to slaughter Muslims in Bosnia? The character of Americans has always been to stick up for the underdogs. God knows we have been the underdogs since before 1776. A betting man would have bet on the Brit's, and fortunately for us, have lost his shirt.

Your "discalimer" up front was quickly discounted when you stated that "IYHO", the correct decision was made, and you never admitted that the judge made any such statement. You were great at the PR for the Russians and the French, but flawed.

Any further attempts to point out the real point will be fruitless on my part. You just don't get it.

Miriam,

I'm glad you mentioned Tonya Harding. Several years ago I did a marketing pland and had preliminary agreements between Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan to have a free for all in a no-holds barred 7 rounds on the WWF.

It was cancelled when they realized I had substitiuted Chyna for Nancy, and Tonya's ex-husband was not allowed to hire her ex-bodyguard to stalk Chyna/Nancy.

It got kinda' nasty, but it was a great marketing plan. I would have made enough money to shoot my first full length feature film...oh, what a pity.

Writing is such fun!

Randy

I have written several Treatments and one Outline before writing the script. I took the sage advice of an "A" list writer and wrote the outline for the last script I finished and have an 8 page Treatment for the current script I'm writing. The Treatment and Outline are a great form to develop tne story structure and find the character roles you need to tell the story.

I would never start a script again without first writing an Outline or Treatment.

If I had been Ashley's former lover who might sue you for writing about my exploits with her as her past lover...

I'd just be glad to have the memories.

Ha-ha. got'cha.

I still have my fantsi...er...memories..uh..

...forget I mentioned it.

Gee. That was fun.

Boy, are you guys a great "bad" influence on me.

Back to the western.

Hi-yo, Silver.

Colleen,

I completely agree with your observations. I drop by to review the topics, and since they are not relative to screenwriting, I usually do not comment, unless someone has missed the point or is too outrageous to ignore. (although it is getting easier to ignore DGB's ravings)

I wish we had more relevant topics, to discuss with Steven, Ms. Ash, Paula, Miriam, and a few more who have declined to opine, but so far lately, it's just fairly lame conversation between some whom I don't give much credit to.

I wouldn't mind discussing the current challenges I have wqriting 4 new short scripts (for a specific purpose), but the discussion might be easily sidetracked by those whom make us winch when we see their names at the top of the reply, and we know we're getting nothing of value for a response.

(in Clint Eastwood's "Dirty Harry"'s voice)

"Kid, you got two chances...slim and none...I wouldn't count on Slim."

No apologies. Don't miss him. won't miss DGB.

I do miss intelligent discussions about screenwriting. Haven't seen them in some time.

Jay,

No.

"Less is more". (architectural quote, but applicable to this situation.)

D. Jay,

I hope I'm never on your list. Just ignore me and let me be without you or other's opinions. What I do or say is of no value to you, so why do you care?

Miriam, please start something of value on this vast desert of comment.

Did you ever feel as though you were drowning and looking up to see the last people on Earth, and were glad to let go and be no more on this piece of existence?

Is there hope for this message board, or are we doomed to this drivel?

God obviously has a sense of humor. Look who all He created to challenge my sanity.

I need a break.

D. Jay,

I suggest you not try to place meaning on other people's words or actions. So far with me, you are completely innaccurate. My silence would be of disgust on dealing with the characters I've mentioned. Apology and regret do not apply, except only in you mind. Again, completely innaccurate.

As for "less is more", it is an architectural term used to describe some of the architecture of both those who are successful at it and those who are not. Some designers/Architects/artists begin a design but don't know when to stop. They start with a good idea but then add more and more until the object of design is a conglomerate of pieces, angles, forms, materials, etc. and becomes a mess.

I once did a pencil portrait of Lynn Redgrave during her 30's from a photo in one of my college art classes. After several hours of classwork and my Professor looking over my shoulder, I asked him, "what do you think?" He said "if you quit now, it's an A+. If you work any more on it, the grade gets lower and lower". Less is more.

Good advice to writers as well.

Rod,

I've been looking into pitching, myself. I'm not familiar with Eva Peel. Do you have a URL for her?

I did buy the book, "the Perfect Pitch" by Ken Rotcop. Haven't finished it yet. I did talk to Ken over the phone. He seems nice enough over the phone, and explained his service and the twice per year "Pitchmarts". He reads your script for $2.00/page, gives complete coverage and notes, and if he thinks the script is good enough, he will invite you to his group that meets a certain number of times to practice their "pitches" and hone their skills.

If the service is legit, I don't mind paying the one time fee for a script for coverage and then more to attend pitch sessions. In the business world we just call these "continuing education" and we buy the books, tapes and motivational sessions to get us off our butts and get back to being competitive again.

My question is, anyone here used either this service for pitching or something similar?

Randy

Sad? For us, yes, but since I believe in a better place with the Almighty, I think, no I believe they are in a better place.

I remember "Uncle Milty" during the 50's and 60's on TV. What a great time to watch television.

I remember dudley, beginning with "10", and more funy times afterwards. I remember his love for the piano, and how he could make it sing.

I will miss Dudley and Milton, but thanks to the grace of film and video, I will be able to enjoy their egacy they left behind.

Milton and Dudley,...

God Bless.

Steven,

"Threes" is right. Yesterday Uncle Milty, Dudley and today Billy Wilder. Three GREAT ones, too. Thank God we still have their work on film and video.

Goodbye, my funny and brilliant guys. Gone, bur never forgotten, and always admired.

Rick,

I'm planning on shooting a short Western with some great landscape shots this summer (June 22), and I was considering the XL1S because of the different lens capability, even using the lens adapter for the 35 mm.

Do you think the HDDV will give me the look I need more than the XL1S?

Ashley, sorry to borrow your thread, but Rick didn't list his email.

Rick, you can post here or review my profile for my email.

The purpose of the short is festival submittals.

Randy

Steven,

I used Final Draft 5. something, and recently went to Final Draft 6. Guess the new one doesn't include some of the words used on the other thread.

Steven,

Embarassed to say I haven't noticed any real benefits. Probably because the improvements are internal instead of a new way to do the script typing. The upgrade was only $99, so I thought I'd give it a whirl. Works fine, but still not able to discern the difference between 5.0 and 6.0.

Enough. Brandon, you are way out of line. I had hoped this bitch session would dry up and blow away, but you seem to revel in it.

In case you hadn't noticed, this is a bulletin board for new writers to correspond with each other in hopes of becoming a better writer. Your recent posts are nothing but profane and insulting. Either grow up or retreat to the corner with the other inane posters whose prose is nothing more than insults and gutter vernacular.

You may have the right to your opinion, but when your opinion is nothing more than what you have written in the past few weeks, we don't have to condone it.

Frederick, please step in and, once again, re-install civility.

Just a note to find out what everyone is working on these days.

I'm still trying to finish that "trek" script (drama) of the pop star who is lost in the wilderness and trying to find her way out.

I have a two page script with one line in it that is scheduled to shoot in late June or July. It's Western and I'm really jazzed about it.

I have finished to re-write of a new ending for the last feature (sci-fi mystery/thriller) and have it on a couple of Producer's desks.

What is everyone else working on at this time. Miriam, Steven, Ashley, Rick, et.al?

Notice that when a serious, or even semi-serious topic begins, it will eventually deteriorate into worthless drivel when a couple/few posters ignore the topic and then begine to use it as a diss oportunity.

If you want to have a rant section, try to open a new topic and leave the OT at the gate.

Thanks to all who responded honestly. I'm glad to see that so many of us, the vast majority, are currently working on progress for our careers.

Best of luck.

Randy

Miriam,

Kudos to you, too. You have more patience than I have, so you are a great example to all of us.

Interesting how we thought the other period piece script would be the one to be your first sale and then "Red Seal" becomes your springboard. I've learned a few good lessons from your persistence.

Could not be happier for you. Stay the couse, my friend.

Randy

Matthew,

The above postings are rich with great advice. Take them seriously.

My first script, which was pretty good, is not nearly as good as my second or even my third, which I am finishing soon. They even get to be more fun as time goes on with them. Even my short scripts have evolved as well.

Don't forget. If someone reads your first script, likes your style but not the story, they will ask you for another script. What do you say to them then?

Don't take seven years to do a script. Change the discipline in which you sit down to write and make the next one entirely different, and use the lessons you must have learned on the first script to make your writing effort easier and perhaps even more fun.

Right now I am planning to rent an RV and drive up into the mountains to get away and enjoy the great outdoors while I finish the rest of the script. A "writing vacation" so to speak.

Good advice by the above mentioned writers. I suggest you try their advice and begin again.

Randy

Miriam,

Yeah. Living in L.A. is getting old. Eight years ago I didn't mind it so much because I was working as a "backgrond actor" 5-6 days a week and learning a lot about behind the scenes on sitcoms, feature films and even commercials. I've given myself another 1 1/2 - 2 years here max before I choose to move to N. AZ or to Austin, TX to be near some good areas for indie filmmakers. If one of the screenplays sells before then, I'm out a here.

I'm defiantely out of here for the fourth of July. I can just see Hollywood being a prime target for the next "incident" by extremists.

I'm shooting the western short DV in July/August, and hopefully it will be the "calling card" for the other scripts to get read.

Still, lots of rejections to go, and I will wade through them until the "yes" gets here.

Randy

Miriam,

Nope. I'm a cowboy at heart (Texas roots), and I'd love a place in the country far away from the city lights.

I'd still hold wine tastings at the house, but they would be in conjunction with bar-b-ques in the "back yard". I'd love to settle down with a "cowgirl at heart" with lots of "critters" around and country music on the stereo lots of the time, mixed up with smooth jazz, rock and roll, and Adreas Bocelli. (can you say "eclectic"?)

'Fraid the land of 10,000 lakes isn't my cup of tea, chardonnay or coffee, either. Thanks for the suggestion. At least I'd know in your neck of the woods I'd have good neighbors.

Randy

D.G.,

I have a better thought. What if Christ came back just like he promised? I'm sure I wouldn't want to be in your shoes then.

I'm sure that thought never entered your thoughts. Too busy slamming the religion of others. Seems to be quite the thing these days. Lots of non-believers are quick to criticise.

We have enough problems within our religion without your hateful nonsense.

D.G.,

Again, you assume too much. At least I don't preach my beliefs. As far as religion is concerned, you know/understand so little about me and many others that your assumptions (and conclusions) are as inane as the majority of your posts.

I am sure it is impossible for you to understand that something you might write might actually offend someone else's beliefs in their spiritual path. You know you don't care about anyone else's beliefs or opinions. You have replaced God with your omnipotence.

As far as the past is concerned, your inane posts have offended more people than you can imagine. I choose to ignore the majority of such, but when I do respond, you immediately go on the frontal attack. I choose not to let you get away with some of the stupid and insensitive remarks you make. I certainly don't have the time to respond to all of them.

When you intentionally insult some peoples beliefs in Jesus Christ and you just expect us to sit there and say "maybe he's right. Maybe I should just give up my entire belief system because he thought of an idea that I would have never considered". I would have never considered it because it is so ludicrous as to be stupid and doesn't warrant the proper consideration.

The two areas in which anyone should be considerate of others beliefs are religion and politics. They are not discussed in the workplace for good reasons.

You asked about Christ's return with one suggestion and I submitted another solution. Since you disregarded my suggestion, why should I consider yours?

Preach on, Preacher Boy. I have heard your dogma, and I reject it. Freedom of choice of religion. Part of the creation of this great country.

Screenwriter's Bible is an excellent resource. I don't know where you live, but a couple of well chosen (because there are sooo many) seminars on the "Business" of writing might be of value. Try signing up with www.creativescreenwriting.com for ezine news on the biz.

I like your positive attitude. Keep it up, and don't let the eventual rejections change that great attitude. We're always here to congratulate and commiserate.

Good luck, Fransisco.

Ashley,

You have the right to your spiritual beliefs, as does D.G., and so do I. I do NOT slam others beliefs because I respect their right to their beliefs, and am glad they have them. D.G., however, admittedly DOES slam others beliefs, due to the fact he has no respect for others to make up their own mind about their relationship with God. In his words, we are mere puppets of the church with no will power of our own. To REPEAT myself again, no one here knows my personal spiritual beliefs, because they are personal. Jesus Christ happens to be a keystone in my beliefs. I choose to be a Christian on purpose, not by default.

I know all the new age "stuff" because I looked into it as well. I am continuing my studies on the "lost years of Jesus".

I am tired of new agers and liberals with no moral compass slamming my personal beliefs under the guise of "freedom of speech". You may have the right to your opinion, but when I disagree, I am "closed and biased?" No, I have the right to my religious beliefs, including the right to defend them by all attackers, including D.G.

End of comments.

Francisco,

I was born and raised in Ft. Worth and went to Texas Tech. After graduation I moved to Dallas for several years before my moves landed me in Los Angeles. Great place to live, or to be from. Look up my profile and drop me an email so we can do the "do you know..." bit.

Randy

Ashley,

The term "many paths to God" is somewhat Eastern in origin, and not readily acceptable in most Christian faiths. Most Christian Dogma believes that you cannot get to Heaven "on works alone" and that to be a Christian you must believe that Jesus Christ (Emmanuel) is the Son of God, as foretold in the phrophicy (s.p.). Many Christian religious dogma also states that there is only "one path to God" and that is through the belief in Jesus Christ. (pretty elitist, huh?) That part I have a tough time with, but one must wrestle with his/her own spiritual path and questions.

I also have a tough time with the deathbed conversions of serial killers, etc. Ignore it or not, hell is going to be one crowded place.

Christine,

Actually, I agree with what you have said. I am not a big fan of the Protestant church as we know it today, and even less of a fan of the Catholic church. I'm glad I didn't live in the era of the Inquisition. I would have been on the wrong end of that crowd.

As for Ashley...high maintenance might be correct.

Just kidding, Darlin'!

Randy

Breaking news in Southern California: Eight men taken into custody after arriving on shore from a boat or some sort of flotation device, in Newport Beach area and had a vehicle waiting for them. Some of them escaped and Police are looking for them. Too soon to know who they are. They may just be guys from Mexico looking for work, or maybe not.

The point is, be safe this weekend and Monday. Keep your antenna up and watch for signs of things out of place. If it is warm where you are, watch for someone wearing a large clothes or coats when it is too warm to do so. Avoid large crowds if possible, but on the other hand, don't let the threat deter you from having a good time with friends and family.

I know it is confusing to remind you of the possible threats on our lifestyle and then ask that you not live your life in fear. Live your life aware of the dangers they pose, but live your life without fear of the unknown.

Be safe and happy as well.

Randy

Fortunately the "swimmers" were Chinese Nationals who tried to sneak into the U.S., and were not Terrorists.

Still, caution as we continue the fight back.

Be Safe.

Ashley,

I can't believe it!!! I got that bumper sticker for you for your next birthday, and now you go and mess up all my fun.

Damn.

Now I have to go out shopping...again!

AAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!

I suggest you go to www.indieclub.com and post your notice. I know there are a lot of filmmakers in the Chicago area, and several visit that site.

Good luck.

Randy

Kathy,

Welcome to our little corner of the screenwriting world. This particular site is my favorite out of all of the possibilites. There are some very good folks here, and well, as for the others, you'll soon figure out the others. Most writers who frequent here are serious about pursuing their writing, and a lot of us are part time, first timers doing the homework on how to make the paradigm shift to career writing.

The archives are full of great info, and sometimes the new topics are slow to eveolve, as most of us have real lives and have to deal with reality every day while striving to imagine new ways of writing good stories.

Jump in with both feet. The water's fine, and it is time to find the 'ol summer swimming hole.

(Why, you may ask is Randy is such a good mood? Well, my Honda's transmission is slipping, and it goes in the shop tomorrow, so I rented a car for the weekend. Ready for this?--- brand new red Mustang convertible. Look out L.A. Another rag top hits the asphalt again today!!!)

Randy

Steven, Ashley and R. Sparks,

I share Steven and Sparks' view of the organized religions. After many years, and the egging of a good Christian couple, I finally found a church about an hour's drive away (light taffic on the freeway at 75 mph). Although they are a large church (due to the positive message from the Pastor), and I don't know all the new songs currently sung), it is a very positive and uplifting experience. I don't go every Sunday, but when I do it only strengthens my personal spiritual relationship.

Ashley, if you were to watch Sunday TV and hit most of the evangelists, especially Swaggart, et.al., you'd get a lot of that type of hyperbole. They do give orgainized religion a bad reputation, but a lot of the other churches not on TV do as well. The Catholic church's denials may doom them as well.

In the end, IMHO, it is my personal relationship with God that is foremeost in my life. That relationship includes Jesus Christ, and no esoteric blather by several posters here will make a dent in my personal convictions, no matter how much they raise their voices to scream out their alternative beliefs. While some may again say "blinders", the truth is I have sought my beliefs through careful consideration and research, and I have found my way, and do not agree with the detractors. I do not respect them because of their casual and fivolous condemnation Of Jesus Christ through their thinly veiled attempts to discredit Jesus by their claims and depictions of Him as less than we believers do.

They may have the right to their opinions, but with that right comes the responsibity to allow others their opinions and convictions without having to be criticised for our beliefs. Three of the posters here don't get that, but I'm not surprised.

Randy

M. Bailey:

If you had read my post dated 05/22/02: "Many Christian religious dogma also states there is only "one path to God" and that is through the belief in Jesus Christ. (pretty elitist, huh?) That part I have a tough time with, but one must wrestle with his/her own spiritual path and questions."

You suggested "I read"...I suggest you read before putting your mouth in gear.

As for following the "herd of non-thinkers", your smart ass comments are only to criticise someone who does not share your particular point of view, and that does put you in the group I was speaking about. Until that comment, I hadn't considered you, but I'll make room for you in that group if that is your approach.

Thinking about my spiritual path is something I have always thought about. Just because I have found a different path than you doesn't make me a "non-thinker".

My comments are directed towards critical comments made by D.G. and others who are quick to criticise and belittle others religious beliefs by claiming everyone is wrong and they have the only thinking man's true answers. I have never done that. I have only stood up and claimed my beliefs in Jesus Christ and to praise those other fellow Christians who have done so eloquently. I have never slammed your belief system, unlike the "others" I referred to.

Again, to repeat myself, to criticise others religious or political beliefs is asking for opponents. The Christians here did not start the criticisms here, but just stood up to the criticisms and smart ass remarks, and they have not criticised the "others" belief systems or convictions.

This thread seems to have run the gauntlet. I grow tired of the hateful comments made here so that I have to repeat myself and stand up as a Christian to defend my religious beliefs. This is America, the birthplace of religious freedom. I shouldn't have to constantly defend that to several of you. An intelligent discussion on varied religious beliefs is one thing. This thread has never lived up to that.

Randy

Steven,

You "got it". Gauntlet was on purpose. Gamut would be too run of the mill. Any "dumb-ass" knows that.

Mitchell,

Last time I read the Bible, your God and my God were one in the same. One of the reasons I support Israel. One of the reasons why my Jewish friends and I have such good conversations, unlike this one.

Randy

R. Sparks,

Once you get on the mailing list for the Church of Scientology, they inundate you with their "literature" (that was a generous noun to use), and you CAN'T get off the list. To tell you the truth...

I'd rather get the rattlesnakes.

This string sure did get snake bit. Lots of holes and quite a bit of poison all over it.

Ever get the feeling that D.G. answers two or three strings at one time just to save time and to confuse us?

What con-test?

Speed reading on speed?

I'm done. Think I'll take an asprin. Thank God I'm not religious and Catholic. I'd need a confession of what I'd like to do to this string.

Hail_____, hail_____...pick your Saint.

Bill,

I used Scriptware for a couple of years, but when they stopped doing upgrades, I switched to Final Draft 5.0 and now upgraded to FD 6.0. I prefer Final Draft.

I use the Sony Vaio laptop with a DVD player and extra bay that can be used for a floppy drive or extra battery. The Sony is a good machine, but I also bought an extra full size keyboard for using the laptop more than one hour at a time.

That quote you mentioned is very near a statement from Jesus Christ (the original), New Teatament, who said (KJ version), "If you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto me."

Part of being a Christian.

According to the report tight here on MovieBytes, none of the scripts submitted in the "first quarter" of the contest warranted a "recommend", so it appears that they couldn't find a good enough script to submit to a Director in the biz to turn it into a feature length.

I wrote the webmaster to see if he was still accpting any scripts. He may be too bummed after all that trouble.

You're right. It sounds like ethics and good business practices prevails this time. Maybe we should support this guy and all of us submit a decent short script so he doesn't give up on us newbies. I'm willing.

Welcome to the site by a fellow newbie, which seems to be the majority here. Some folks here have had some success and are still in the learning mode, so you will definately fit in.

A couple who are married and write together? Boy, ya'll either have a great relationship, or will need one soon.

Best of luck, and welcome home.

Randy

One rule of thumb that ALWAYS applies...NEVER PAY FOR REPRESENTATION UP FRONT.

Ignore D.G.'s advice...tell them to go to HELL.

There is a better way out there for you, but this AIN'T IT.

Keep on keepin' on.

Randy

Andrea,

i, too, bought the book and was excited to discover the "secrets" imagined. I also got to the "dragging" part, and haven't finished it yet.

Spiritual, yes, but that's o.k. I enjoy the spiritual part of all parts of life. I hope to get "through" the rest of it and hopefully, glean some insight, but I have yet to find it. I'm only reading 4 other books on the biz at this time, which doesn't leave me near enough time for my novel by Clive Cussler.

Manfred,

Thank you for enlightening us from the hallowed halls of Hollywood agencies. I suspected as such, and that's why I decided to not try that route. Since I do not personally know enough movers and shakers to move along a script, I have chosen the filmmaker route. Besides, I like the directing part of the process. I am shooting a short digital video August 24-25 just notrth of L.A. A western drama for film festival submittals and private screenings only. A "calling card" as we refer to it here.

I really appreciate your candid expose of the process and agree with your assessment.

Randy

"notrth":

Definition: head north, but turn right in the middle of it.

Anyone considering going this year? It's scheduled on Oct. 4-6, and it looks good. The Radisson also has a great looking 2 bedroom condo, but I have yet to find out $ per night for it.

I'm considering.

Randy

Music has always been a part of my life, and I love it. I do not listen to music during my writing sessions becasue it is so distracting.

On the other hand, I once listened to a great song by Vince Gill (Country for all you city slickers) and I wrote a great scene between two "Lovers to be" from the lyrics, and incorporated the song into the scene, which became the inciting incident for the whole script. If I ever finish the script, I;ll have to license the music for the scene. As I back-tracked to wtire the beginning, I ended up with another song helping the protagonist remember his Mom and Dad. (Thank you, Clint Black)

Music is great, and I will always use it for creativity, just not when I'm creating.

Randy

Bill,

You sent me a couple of emails last week, and I tried to "reply" and then just pumped in your address, but there was an error in your outgoing return address, and for 4 days I kept getting the message "could not send due to address error". There seems to be something wrong with your return address. Please check it.

I didn't stiff you either. I tried several times. Just for the record, I appreciated your e-mail and would like to converse with you. If I ever get your correct address I'll send you my cell phone number and we can talk.

Thanks,

Randy

Never doubted you for a minute.

"Atta boy, girl." (not my prose, but in the words of a good country song, they seem appropriate.)

Congrat's, Miriam!

Brian,

That's the best chuckle I've had this week.

Several years ago I joined Toastmasters International. They are a organinzation who has groups around the world and have weekly meetings for it's members to practice public speaking, and teach the basics on how to become a good public speaker. I spent 11 years with the Newport Beach Distinguished Toastmasters and won a great deal of competitions on extemporaneous and inpromtu speaking and speech evaluations. I found out I was a good storyteller. Motivational speaking was a challenge and I found that my most successful speeches included at least one of the three "E"'s: education, enlightenment and entertainment.

What I mean by successful was when several people came up after the speech and said "I enjoyed your speech. It made me think". I discovered how to make my audience laugh, cry, squirm, feel a lot of different emotions and especially think. I didn't want to become just another motivational speaker hocking his wares at the "back of the room", so I decided to look for another outlet for my newfound developed talent, and finally stumbled into screenwriting, where I once more fell in love with storytelling.

I still think the three "E"'s are important. You must entertain if you want to write a feature film or television, but if you can enlighten or educate, you have acomplished a great deal. How you educate or enlighten is important, because as R. Sparks pointed out, you don't want to preach or lecture. I guess you could say my motivation for screenwriting is to spin a good yarn that the audience will remember and attach a value to that memory.

Why is it that some people on this board must always criticise others? Mr. Simpson, why is it necessary for you to criticise someone else's motivation? Must you quote Aristotle in order to expose your extensive reading or study and then use such just to criticise others for having differing opinions or experiences? Why should I be honest with my answers here if so many are so quick to judge and criticise.

As for D.G., he only proves how little he knows me or understands me. If only he knew little of an opinion I have for someone who starts with a critical takeoff on a person's name in order to belittle them immediately.

I suggest you two "gentlemen" merely answer the damn question without attacking other people's answers.

Mr. Simpson,

You should go back and re-read your first post objectively. It was a "personal" critique, not a professional one. When it comes to my work as a writer or filmmaker, I have thick skin and have asked for critiques by fellow writers I respect.

When the comments become personal, I feel at liberty to defend my opinions and views. I know the difference between personal and professional critiques.

Johnny,

Wow. You are a good writer. Granny would be proud.

I really enjoyed that.

o.k. Let's you and I have a little "mano a mano". Just you and I having a little "civil" talk to get some things straight.

You need to hear from someone that your "style" of BEGINNING YOUR POSTS BY YELLING BELITTLING NAMES AT PEOPLE is very offensive and puts most people off. It is a PERSONAL attack. How can you do that and not expect a like response. If you walk up to a bee hive and hit it with a stick, what do you think will happen?

I have ignored your post for the past month or so, but when you began your first post on the last thread, you started by attacking me personally. I have the right to respond to personal attacks. I would just as soon never having to repond to you again.

I have a suggestion. In the future, when you read a post by someone (me or anyone else), respond by not doing a personal attack. Just bite your tongue and move on. That's what I do when I read your posts. The ONLY reason I addressed you is after your personal attack. You can respond to any topic without getting personal. You can just offer a different view. I can respect that. I do not respect smart ass remarks aimed personally at me or anyone else. I find your retorts to others just as offensive as when you do it to me.

This is not holding out a laurel leaf. This is just "you have your opinion and I have mine. I would appreciate a little peer courtesy by keeping your remarks in the professioanl range and out of the personal". I doubt if you change your "style", but just be aware of it's results on others, and don't be suprised if you get flack for it.

I personally don't think you will respond in a positive manner to this request, but I had to give it one more try. Surprise me.

I grow tired of reading an intersting topic and wanting to reply but always thinking "if I write down what I truly feel, I know D.G. will find some way to personally attack it".

Somehow, some way, something has to change, D.G. You are the man who can do it, but will you?

Hitting the send button now...

I knew it. Nothing of value would come out of such an attempt to communicate with D. G.

The inmates have control. I don't think I have ever seen such worthless blatherings in the history of this mesage board. One must question, what were you thinking? Why would you even attempt a civil suggestion to such? At least I can go out knowing I tried, but failed to ask for a reasonable reparte'.

Fine'.

Just a note for you Vietnam Vet's: I am co-writing (with a Vietnam Vet) a new script about Vietnam Vet's, but in today's time. It will be a tribute to the Vet's, and how their experiences in the 60"s and 70"s prepared them for a grave situation in the year 2002.

We still remember, and will NOT forget.

Tom,

Welcome. Brian's right about the differring opinions, but yours is welcome as well.

Jump in with both feet. The archives are full of great info, thanks in part to our frearless leader, Frederick.

Bryan's right, and so is Brian, too.

oops.

Faith,

Miriam and I have a friend who is an entertainment lawyer, and I have never got such a lashing when I admitted to doing a re-write for no pay or even promise.

The new start-up Production Co. turned out to be bogus and a waste of time for everyone involved, and he was right. If a Production Co. is interested enough and are a good company with basics ethics, they should option your script with paid re-writes.

Even if you have not sold one script yet, act like you have. In other words, if you had already sold a script and were paid for the re-writes, would you do the next script re-write for free? I think not.

My vote...stick to your guns.

You go, girl.

(All sexist references purely coincidental).

Randy

Christine,

You forgot us Pisces. Uh-oh, I feel a mood coming on.

Optimus,

Great example. I copied it to a file to review later when I go back to my script "Mountain Ghost". I have 2 montages in it, and I'll use your example to review and correct if necessary.

Thanks!

Randy

Well, Moviebyters, only 2 1/2 days until the first A.D. says "rolling" and the sound engineer says "speed" and I FINALLY say "ACTION".a "Respect", a Western drama, will be a reality come Saturday and Sunday. Going to get it "in the can"!

The check for the insurance cleared, and the caterer called with the "menu" for the two 12 hour days.

I'm now the expert on sleep deprivation due to stress, anxiety and just plain 'ol excitement.

Sticking my neck out, just like the tortise racing the hare, in hopes of the finish line with great results.

Randy

Steverino,

Cigars all around, 'cept maybe Ms. M. It's my script and my "money"...what there is left of it.

Private screening in L.A. in Oct. or Nov.

"Tan"? Only by being outside in the sun for two days in the mountains.

Ran

Steve,

I love the red 2x4 welcome mat "red carpet" from K-Mart. That's funny, and practical. Thinking like a indie filmmaker!

It's 3:00 a.m., and since I could not sleep, I made good time of packing now for the weekend.

Lot's of last minute details, some not so little. The biggest problem is with a few of the actors not returning phone calls for a last meeting and coordination.

The craft services/caterer made my day with staying within the budget and coming up with an incredible menu for a large "picnic", but with hot meals and plenty of good snacks...the kind you "make" and not wrapped in foil from the supermarket.

The checkbook hasn't seen this much action in the entire year.

Packing everything from shorts , t-shirts, extra socks, jackets and windbreakers (in the mountains the weather can change quite a bit), boots, bluejeans and hats.

O.K. Now back to bed for a short nap before one more day of "day job".

My favorite ensemble is between THE BIG CHILL and THE USUSAL SUSPECTS. Interesting enough, in both films a significant character was absent. In THE BIG CHILL the discussions centered around Kevin Costner's "dead" character, and in THE USUAL SUSPECTS we still argue whether or not Keyser Soze (spelling taken from the DVD jacket). In the billing dept. Steven Baldwin's name got first on the list, followed by Gabriel Byrne, Chazz Palmanteri, Kevin Pollack, Pete Postlewaithe, Kevin Spacey, Suzy Amis, Benicio del Toro and Giancarlo Esposito. If there's any rhyme to the listing, Sapcey's name should have been first, but maybe they just should have been listed in alphabetical order.

In both films, the STORY was the main point,(story-driven) and not any one character, but take away one character, and the STORY looses a lot, and would not be told as well as it was.

Everyone,

Thank for the good luck's! I'll need all I can get. Brian, I'll try to remember to send you the script in pdcf file tonight.

Interesting couple of days, and it looked like I could not find the materials to build the Shoshone burial scaffold, but networking persisted, and we found the materials today, purchase tomorrow and build Saturday for a Sunday shoot.

I hope to also shoot he "making of" with a handheld consumer DV. The musicians called today (two Native American Flute player---one is only nine years of age and already has a CD) so we can add to the sound track.

Marcel,

That's cool. Glad to hear of your experiences. "We learn by doing..." a line from a Johnny Winters skit on his TV series many years ago.

Thanks for the good wishes. Word on the street seems to be getting out. Lots of volunteers calling to be a part. The actors are getting excitied and I hope to have at least one good night's sleep before the shoot, but since God invented adrenilin, I will still make it.

Soon............

Randy

Marcel,

P.s.

The two actors who have lines are using wireless lavaliers and a boom mike as well with the sound engineer.

I have the advantage of being able to network and get a great sound enginner for "bare minimum", as I have been in L.A. for about 10 years and have met a great number of folks. They will give a "rookie" a chance as long as the rookie is risking something as well and has a good script to begin with the shoot.

Ran

Well, it's 4:00 a.m., and I can't sleep, so I'm up and running 6 new copies of the script, and doing a final checklist.

I had a last minute call from another D.P. who's Canon XL-1S is in the shop, but has volunteered to do a "making of..." if we can procure another good camera, so there's that...plus...we haven't found a decent deal on the mini-can for a shuttle. And they wonder why there's runnaway production. The "production rates for a mini-van are $59.00/day", and that's supposed to help keep the cost of production down? He was even going to charge me for 4 days if I picked up today (Friday) and dropped off Monday morning. New math?

Too many last minute details, and we have spent countless hours in pre-production, not to mention all of us cutting out early on our day jobs.

I will take all yor good wishes with me. Heaven knows I will need them.

We may even have to deal with a few thunderstorms on Sunday, but that really doesn't bother me. Might make for a couple of interesting scenes.

Bryan, by the way, the scene with the three Braves in the hunting party on horseback...minus the horses. I could find 2 horses for them but not three, so they are on foot. Only the Cavalry scout and the Colonel are mounted.

I am going to pray for "grace under fire" for these days. Gotta' let the other crew and cast members do their jobs and just concentrate on doing mine.

Up from my short nap (even beat the alarm by 30 minutes) and raring to go. Must be the adrenalin. Coffee's just now ready. On to the caffine.

R.S.

The short will be only about 10 minutes and is for film festivals. I cannot do "bradcast", only private screenings due to the fact that I am licensing a new song from George Strait's "The road Less Traveled", and it is restricted to FF and private screenings.

I will post when I have a private screening in L.A. in Oct./Nov. and then one in TX Nov./Dec.

Bugler...sound the charge!!!!!!!!!!!

Good morning. That was the first complete night's sleep in a long time. Well........it's in the can. Eight rolls of film! Wow. The cast was outstanding and had such great attitudes. I even had luck getting the three (stuntmen) doing acting and they even had fun.

The crew was an experienced crew, most of whom had worked together before, and were very forgiving to first time Director. My mistakes were either easily reconciled, or made us ALL laugh. One horse Treavor, was great (the co-lead's horse). The other horse (who shall remain nameless to protect the embarrassed trainer) for moi, was cold first thing in the morning, so he "bounched" instead of walking to warm up. I was unfortunately riding a military "McClellan" saddle, which is not made for comfort. The only real problem with "him" was one particular shot where I was 75 yards from the camera and hidden around the tall bushes, and the D.P. yelled "action". We were supposed to "walk around the bush" and into frame, but my horse has heard the "action" word too many times and decised a MUCH different pace. Imagine the looks on the crew when the horse is going "balls out" around the bush and the actor is yelling into his lav mic words not written by the writer, and would change the entire rating of the script in a theatrical release. The look on the faces of the entire crew might be described as "stunned", but when I finally got back to the start position and out of sight, I can only imagine what snickers might have turned into ROLMAO had they not feared it might happen again and I might not regain control until after I had run over the camera and crew.

Taht being said, it's in the can. Now for the next half of the project....the edit.

Thank you all for your kind wishes and good suggestions.

Bryan, the food was excellent. My caterer, John Lee, is retiring from his catering and craft services career, and ate even harder than the crew worked.

Marcel,

I did not have enough $ for a storyboard artist, and had planned to do one, but working full time, and having two projects "peak" at the same time of the shoot kept me too busy, so I didn't have storyboards. I may do them for the editor. Your suggestion is correct, and I really wish I had had them to make a couple of points to the D.P.

D. Jay,

I appreciate your comments. I try, but I am just human, but this weekend, and great cast and crew helped me make a major milestone.

Now to find the best editor I can afford with what's left of the budget.

Randy

Bryan,

The food was excellent. My caterer, John Lee, is retiring from his catering and craft services career. We all ate even harder than the crew worked. Zero complaints about food, other than the A.D. had us so far away from the craft services table, but they shuttled water, drinks and snacks to us all the time.

R. Sparks,

I appreciate the comment that you consider my "film" (only in the can at this time) a success. I have a little different take on that. I consider that my accomplishment thus far is only a part of the "process" that gets to becoming a success. I also agree with the quote "succes is a journey", so in that aspect, my journey continues. I got tired of saying "I'm a Writer/Director", having never got anything on film. There a lot of those in L.A., and I didn't want to be a member of that club anymore.

I hear so many filmmaker "wannabe's" who skip the steps necessary to making a good film. They don't need a good script, or even A script at all. They don't need an experienced crew, just another wannabe who can hold the boom mike (pulled off the camera), and craft services is cold coffee and candy bars. All shots are handheld digital video cam, and "don't need lighting". Their actors are people who are also "actor wannabe's". I didn't skip the steps to learn how to do a good film, including how to structure a good story and hire good actors. I worked hard in my architectural career and saved my money, and when I finally had enough funds, spent ALL of it on the production costs.

As far as the other comments like Bryan's about young writers, I concur. They do not have enough experiences in life to write anything interesting for the masses, but Hollywood only hires them to write fluff for teens who are living in the "now" of their youth and not real stories about the value of being young. The Hollywood crowd who buys these "Adam Sandler" trash scripts pander only to the lowest common denominator of the teens who will pay to go see this crap more than once. The "target market profile" Hollywood craves has mutated from "male, 16-20" into "male, 16-20, who will pay for sitting in the same seat for the same movie more than once".

This is no reason for us, as writers, to change our ideas to fit their marketing plan. Granted we are working against not being a part of that funding for those type of films, but if we create good stories that many "I used to go to movies until they quit making ones I liked to see" movie "used to goers" can watch, maybe they will come back to the thaters and sit in the seats and say "they do make movies like they used to".

Pretty naive, huh? Or...?

I'd like tocontribute, just as long as I don't have to deal with the eating dog stuff.

Last year I went to Austin for my cousin's wedding. We stayed downtown in a nice hotel on Congress St. From 11:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m., the street racers raced up and down between the lights and kept all of us awake due to the noise. I was really pissed at the stupidity of the teenagers who had no regard for anyone else's safety or peace and quiet.

Too bad I didn't recognize this situation as a trend that these teenageers were going through, and that maybe, just maybe, there was a great opportunity for research into a script the teenagers would respond to and show up at the movies.

Must have been sleep deprivation.

I know where I'm headed...straight to the grill. Hmmm. Looks like filet mignon.

Think I'll have a glass of merlot (spiritual color of a wonderful grape from Sonoma County) and enjoy myself.

My cat just sits there and wonder what I'm doing to "her" dinner.

The nerve. ;)>

(like my new goatee?)

Randy

Orlando,

Interesting, your quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson. I had a great calendar about 20 years ago that had a lot of wonderful quotes, and one impressed me so much I had ten copies made and, of course, used the authors name at the bottom of it to give credit. It was:

" I will not follow where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail". Muriel Strade

I tried for several years to track down who this Muriel Strade was, and could not find anything else penned by her. Do you have the book where Emerson's quote is written? I'd love to solve this particular question once and for all. Maybe there is no Muriel Strade, and the calendar maker misquoted Emerson.

The quote is my favorite, and I have used it as a signature many times on another couple of bb's, but always giving MS the credit. Maybe I need to correct my quote.

Weird, huh?

Deb,

I made you think of a 16 year old? Wow, what a great pick-up line for a man my age. Sigh...if only you had meant it that way.

Ashley,

Not to worry. The only goatee is on the little > above. They don't look good on me either.

Orlanda,

My misspell. My apology. Looking for that second cup of coffee to kick in.

Randy

Steven,

I asked a good friend the same question years ago, and her reply was "if you read the book, you know the seminar. Why waste a lot of money to rehash the same material you've already got?"

I skipped the seminar and expense, but still refer back to the book during writing sessions.

Randy

I finally got around to reading the Creative Screenwriting magazine's info for their upcoming Expo in L.A. on Nov. 16-17.

Wow. Huge number of guests of honor, including Frant Darabont, Bruce Joel Rubin, Harlan Ellsion, David Goyer, Richard Matheson, Scott Rosenberg, and David O. Russell.

Also huge is the number of seminars and workshops crammed into 2 days. The only hard part is which seminar/workshop to choose and whether or not you have time for a meal somewhere. The seminars and workshops are given by real professionals in the biz and not just those who write books to sell to us. The seminars are only $2 each and the workshops are only $4 each, and the registration for the 2 days is $49.95. There are pitch sessions on Sunday as well for a fee.

No, I'm not on their sales team (maybe I should apply), but I'm going to register and attend. The website for them is www.screenwritingexpo.com.

Orlanda,

I am a licensed Architect, and about 18 years ago, I had a meeting with a major theater owner in Orange County. We were discussing the movie going experience. (this was way before I ever thought of changing careers in the "biz").

I suggested that many "adults" over 30 didn't want to que up in line for hours, sit next to rowdy teens and just have popcorn and sugar treats to watch a film. I suggested a nice theater, comfortable seats with some elbow room in between, seat designations (so every seat had to have a good view), and a bar with adult beverages available and real snacks (hors de ovres) and finger foods. You call in your reservations and tickets start at $20 per person, drive up to valet parking, no waiting in line, escorted to your seat and a waitress or waiter takes your drink order. Sort of like a dinner theater without the stage. He passed on people spending $20 min. for this kind of treatment. I'd gladly drop $60 - $100 for this kind of treatment on a great movie, but then again, not one that Tom Green or Adam Sandler were starring in.

Again, the film would have to warrant this kind of venue. But, it would give the folks over 30 a great place to have a super date and see a great film.

Oh, yeah I almost forgot. Due to the availability of booze, no one under 21 can get in, and they have "bouncers" (in tuxedos) to kindly remove someone who has had too many or talks a lot.

Craig,

Congrat's on the success of the script. Since we have to market ourselves, and you currently have some forward movement, keep the script out there for prodco's to see it's potential. HCD has had some call for scripts on the "job line' lately. I haven't done the due diligence on them, but shceck them out as well.

Also check out the new thread for the screenwriting expo in L.A. I just started. There are a lot of pitch sessions available if you are registered. May be a good place for finding the right interested parties.

Let's keep the fingers crossed for this one to be Craig's big spec sale, and we next see his name on MovieBytes sales section.

Ashley,

Those horses go slow out to the Griffith Park trails, and only find energy on the way back to the barn. I know this for a fact. I live 5 miles from there.

Craig,

When you come to L.A. to sign your deal, I'll treat you to a good horseback ride with friends who have "movie horses". (just don't let anyone say "action" in front of them, or you'll go from a walk to a dead run in nothing flat)

p.s.

D. Jay,

Did you know you are quoted in the magazine's advertising for Robert Flaxman? Big quote in reference to "since you advised me on my script, SEMPER FI..."

Kinda cool to see your name in quotes, even for advertising.

Carribean...

Johnny,

Could your cow just be an organ donor?

I prefer the Porterhouse organ, although the rib eye is a very nice organ, too.

How you doin'?

Sorry. Just watched the Sopranos.

Still love me? Maybe tolerate my sick sense of humor tonight?

I'm going to bed with a script read of someone else's writing. Good for the soul.

Randy

Johnny,

Like in Florida, your vote doesn't count.

"Show me the money"..."if you build it, they will come..."

I would LOVE to sit and watch a blockbuster Speilberg (the next Indiana Jones) in a comfy chair, glass of wine, fresh hot munchies, in a reserved seat, and of course, sitting next to my date... a gorgeous actress wannabe who says..."so, are you really a Director?"

Sorry, folks. Daydream starting to get out of hand. Back to reality, and the DVD...but with the glass of wine and my new surround sound system. Crank that baby up!

Craig,

Just fell out of my chair. Holy cow, that was funny.

Maybe because I can relate.

OOps...more info than I care to expand upon...

ROFLMAO...........

Hey, ya'll. Now we are into post production. The film is processed and we are selecting an editor who has the time and accepts our little budget item.

I spoke with a very nice Lady today whose son is 9 years old and has one CD to his name for creating an original CD of Native American Flute music. I hear he is very gifted and interested in writing music for the soundtrack.

I hope we are reviewing the "rough cut" next week and headed towards a final cut soon after that. Lots of technical stuff ahead, but if you have a decent script to start with, there are lots of folks willing to give of their time to help it become a reality.

Stay tuned.

Randy

bbbb............you are soooo right.

I stand corrrrrected, again.

Nice thing about being corrrrrrrrected by Miriam. She is such a sweetheart, you really don't mind.

Somewhere south of Miami, and in Jimmy Buffett territory. Margaritas for the entire bar! Bet you my ex and I will someday wind up there drinking the margaritas and I'll be smoking the Cuban seed rolled cigars. ('nother thread to be told).

Orlanda,

Apologies to Ralph. Muriel, you lied to me.

I will still use the quote, but I will give the credit to RWE.

Randy

I was busy today interviewing a couple who are going to be my editors for my film. Then I went to hear bluegrass music and now I'm off to bed to read a script by a friend of mine so I can give him some decent feedback.

So far, so good.

Last night from 9:00 p.m. until 1:00 a.m. my Producer and I transfered the 16 mm film "Respect" onto a "digi-beta" format for Off-line editing, to begin early next week.

I got to see the film as we shot it while the technician "color corrected" the scenes. Quite an education. Watching the scenes was "deja vu all over again", to quote Yogi.

Another step in the process. Now I get a 1/2" copy to do my own "paper edit" this weekend to string together all the major scenes and try and place the inserts and close-ups in the right order.

It's a good thing this is a lot of fun. It's a lot of hard work. That's ok.k. The harder I work, the luckier I get.

Randy

ok.k?

Stuttering after little sleep.

Gotta find the coffee pot...ah ha!

The second cup. Gimme another half hour. Sanity will return.

I spent the last two full days doing a "paper edit" for my editors since there was no script supervisor on the set and we needed the notes. I wrote 7 pages of the full number of shots with their time code designated, and then did a full "paper edit" in 6 pages getting the sequence of shots via the script. Wow. A lot of work.

Constantly using the VCR to look at the scenes, picking the best of the lot, and then in which order to place them. I'm sure the editors will make many adjustments to my paper edit, but it helps them understand how I perceive the film, and gives me a better understanding of the editing process.

I now consider the editing process to be another "re-write" in progress. I also have a very healthy respect for the editors.

R.,

I'm sure your Dad would be proud of all the good things you remember about him. He's lived a full and rich life, especially since he had such a big family. Fifty six years is also what my Mom and Dad have had so far.

I will say a prayer for you and your family, and wish for your sorrow to someday change to smiles when you think of your Dad.

My thoughts and prayers are of you and your family.

Brian,

I'm submitting my short film to both Slamdance and No Dance film festivals. If I make the cut, I'll be there.

Christina,

How nice of a hotel. Hollywood is full of the very expensive to the nice to the REAL cheap. I assume you'll have your car so you can drive in from just about anywhere. I suggest you stay off the 405 freeway. The convention center is off the 110 thru downtown. That would make it about 20 minutes or so from some not so bad areas of Hollywood or even SilverLake. Let me know more and I'll go down to the area and look for a hotel/motel for you. Just drop me an email note.

Marcel,

I bought a book called "The Ultimate Film Festival Guide" by Chris Gore, who has been to ALL of them and has a very comprehensive book about them. By the way, did you make your Sundance deadline? Good luck.

I'm going to submit to: Slamdance, Cinequest, SXSW, NAFATA (Native American Film and Television Alliance in L.A.), Taos Talking Pictures, American Short Shorts, Aspen Short Film Festival, and perhaps a few more. Next year may even include Hollywood Int'l. Film Festival, but who knows where I'll get accepted.

I get the rough cut tomorrow night. Can't wait to see it all in order and ready for the music (to be done on Sunday).

Orlanda,

Are you sitting down? O.K. I went to 1626 Wilcox (1/2 block south of Hollywood Blvd.) and it is ...well... I hate to break it to everyone...it's a small "Mom and Pop" P.O. Box run (think "Mailboxes Etc. without the fancy corp. logo) mailbox drop in one of the oldest and trashiest parts of Hollywood. (do not check your box after 9:00 p.m.) It wasn't pretty.

Did they have any real background to this contest? 3 years? Never heard of them.

I've been in L.A. for 9 years now, and I have to tell you that every time I am invited to this part of town for an audition or some sort of "Meeting", I have never had great results. This part of old Hollywood seems to attract the "wannabees" and sucker companies.

Read into this what you will. I'm not going anywhere near it until someone proves my gut feeling wrong...good luck with that!

Randy

Johnny,

I'm on Hollywood and Vine, and I can't seem to find my way back home. Can you give me directions back to the Valley?

Oh, look. There's a famous movie star...no wait. It only looked like cousin Julia from the back.

Maybe I'll hang around to see someone else who looks like someone else famous.

Maybe not.

Batter up!

Barbara,

Congrats. Now take the opportunity (Carpe Diem) and turn it into a great step forward for your career and future.

We're rooting for you, Barbara...were your home team!

Randy

Well............... it's finally finished. The final cut was finished early this morning, and I sent the frist two copies to Cinequest (San Jose) Film Festival and Slamdance. Tomorrow is The Native American Film and Television Alliance submittal, and then more next week.

The film "looks great", but I'm a bit subjective. I will say that this is the film (100%) I wanted to make. Well, maybe longer, but I ran out of money.

Randy

When I first heard of Project Greenlight, I was suspicious. I was right. I refer to it as the "Survivor" element. Survivor used to be a good term, but the "reality" TV series has perverted the word. The TV show created a cut-throat mentality. If you really wanted to survive on an island with a group of people you would band together as a real support group, but the Producers created a real agneda to get each player to try and "get" each other. The real world setting doesn't use that, because, in the end, the result is only one survivor, not the group.

If you apply the same standards to PG, which they do, everyone will cut the throat of his/her peer in order to advance. It is based on negativity, not the development of good writing. The results of the first PG show how much they failed. The winner (I do not even remember his name) did not have a box office smash, and the runners up...where are they in reality? The winner has had some modicum of success, but where is the huge success the project alluded to?

Project Greenlight has all the earmarks of HYPE, and this is the perfect venue for it. Hollywood roulette with paper bullets and lots of "loosers".

If anyone wants to try it and can get something of value out of it, I'd love to hear about the "real stories" of PG mmebers. So far, I haven't heard anything good from it.

New information on submitting to the U.S. Copyright Office.

"...sending the fee by U.S. postal mail, your reply may not reach the Copyright Office for several weeks or months.

If you reply by private carrier, such as FedEx or UPS, the reply will be delivered with no delay or with only a few days delay.

If you are able to have your reply hand delivered, it can enter the Copyright Office premises and will be accepted by the Public Information Office."

You may also use a credit card by phone, FAX, or email.

This is all due to the disruption after Oct. 17, 2001, due to the anthrax scare via the USPS.

In other words, do not use the U.S. mail to send your form PA to the Copyright Office.

David,

Do not send out a script to an agency if it is bound other than 3 hole with only 2 brads (top and bottom) The front title page can be either regular bond paper or a 3 hole stiffer grade, but no spiral or ring binds.

Refer to "The Screenwriter's Bible" by Trottier. Submittals to an agency must be in accordance with what they are familiar with and no variances or you will end up in the "round file".

R.S.,

IDing a single bullet is next to impossible. The reason "you haven't worked it out yet" is because you don't understand the existing process and how impossible it would be to mark an individual bullet.

There is also a process called "reloading" bullets, and almost any marking, again, could be altered. New bullets can easily be cast without any trace elements. A good imagination, but, in reality, it does not work.

I will not get into the pro vs. con issue of guns in America. I will comment on Michael Moore's recent interviews on several talk shows. He is making emotional and false statements about his "opinions". I find him obnoxious and not a credible source of factual information. He had an agenda in his scripting and he make a "documentary", which was biased. I was under the opinion that documentaries look for all truth, not just a one sided slanted opinion.

Just one opinion who does not care for M Moore or his doc. film. Didn't care for his earlier work either.

Gentlemen,

I sincerely hope you do not think I am a "bad guy". I want justice for those who have been murdered. I would be the first to hang John Williams "Mohammed" and his boy friend Malvo. I am just stating the non-solutions so far advocated here. Evil has no bounds. Trying to profile ALL Americans so you can trace a single bullet to a single sniper is improbable. Why not get the INS to do it's job so the driver of the sniper moblie would have been deported, and Jon Williams would not have had an acomplis, and might have never fired another shot. We had many opportunties for putting John Williams in jail for his sins.

May they both burn in hell, where their one true god reigns.

No virgins there, boys. No more sex, you worthless ********.

Ron,

"I read recently in my hometown newspaper that some form of bullet ID system was actually in place from 1968 to 1986, when it was, guess what? - repealed by a Rightward-tilted Congress."

Since most newspapers seem to have a liberal bias, like my local newspaper, I have a problem with the credibility of such a statement. Again, the ability of a criminal to make his own bullets without the ability to be traced is very evident. When you ignore the ways around such legislature you are empowering the criminals to circumvent the laws. These criminals already ignore gun laws and purhcase or steal guns in order to commmit crimes. Do you think they will not committ crimes due to more legislature when they can easily circumvent them?

Instead of pitting "Liberal vs. Conservative" thinking to the root of the problem, why not go after the base problem...the criminal. We had the teenage sniper in custody, but corrupt and inept INS agents and managers let him out to kill. John Muhammed also committed crimes while in and out of the Armed Forces, but weak penalties allowed him to roam free to get his weapons and begin his serial killings. I am anxiously awaiting the results of the investigation to determine how a man with his criminal background obtained an AR-16. I also want to know who else helped these two criminals committ their crimes, knowing their intents.

As for blaming conservative radio talk show hosts or writers for the molding of opinion in America, the same could be said about liberal biased newspaper op-ed's. Brokaw, Jennings, and many other television reporters and could be accused of the liberal biased, but if we take this finger poining at each other as the problem, we have missed the big picture. Is it possible that we could have stopped John Williams Muhammed and Malvo before they began their serial killings (19 to date, and that probably isn't the last of it)?

If bullet fingerprinting worked ALL the time, it would be feasible, but IT DOESN'T. Once again, it is not difficult to change the "finger printing" of both the barrel marking on a bullet and the marks on the brass casing. Muhammed and Malvo may or may not have known this. It did not and would not have stopped them. If they got one AR-16, and needed more, they would have stolen/bought more weapons and ammuntion in order to committ murder.

Ron, I'd like to have the ability to stop these evil murderers, but a bullet fingerprinting law won't work. It's too easy to circumvent. I'd like to know the facts about this investigation and find out how Muhammed/Malvo got their weapons and if they were previously found to be criminals, why they moved around so easily without impunity creating hell for 19 killings (so far as we know this moment).

Let's try to find a solution without the "liberal vs. conservative" fingerpointing this time. Maybe we can find a solution to stop more terrorists from re-creating this serial murder again.

Mr. Brassfield,

Again, you have IGNORED the larger perspective in order to advance the LIBERAL attitude. Whatever. Think whatever you have tunnel vision for. Continue to write here whatever you want to rave about. Some of the rest of us will seek to find a solution for these evil bastards, and you can pursue your political agendas. You have the right to yell, at the top of your voice, "It's the left vs. the right", when in fact, it's the evil vs. normalacy.

You conclude that it's political, when I (don't beg) to differ. I concede your right, but not your conclusion. I still have that right, even if you argue against my right to do so.

Take it up with Thomas Jefferson and the rest of the signatures on the Constitution.

Mr. Dooley,

If you re-read my two previous posts, you will recall I suggested that we NOT make the conservative vs. liberal debate on this topic as Mr. Brassfield did. As for documenting the liberal bias inthe media, it has been well documented by others who spent many years in television and wrote their observations.

This is getting off the topic again. The original post was in reference to M. Moore's "documentary", which I have an opinion on, and the spin-off topic of fingerprinting bullets. I gave my opinion of such, and two posters have decided that it is now time to attack conservative issues instead. I will decide to not participate in your retort. You are welcome to your opinion. I have offered some facts about the difficulties of fingerprinting and the desire to find another effective way to help identify killers like Muhammed and Malvo before they committ 19, or even 1, murder(s).

Sometimes the discussions on this board deteriorate into personal attacks, and this string is headed towards that. I choose not to participate further. Now you have complete control to say anything you wish without confrontation.

Freddie,

Congrats on completing your first first draft. May htere be amny more to come (both scripts and rewrites).

As for copyright, you only need to register the first draft unless the rewrites are so drastically different. Then it becomes an entirely different screenplay. The most important registration is to the U.S. Copyright Office. When you can send it, use Fed. Ex and not the USPS, as the checking out of the security will add several weeks or months to the normal four months waiting. That way you also have a record of filing as well.

Find a local writers group (I forgot to check where you live) and submit your script for review.

Have you read some of the large number of books available for screenwriters? They will have suggestions as well.

I suggest you also begin your next screenplay. I remember my first screenplay, and am now on my third rewrite of my third screenplay. I'm beginning to get the hang of this. I really enjoy making progress, as each rewrite and each new script gets better.

When you do get the job and can afford a screenplay software, use either Final Draft or one of the others available. That will solve a lot of formatting problems. As for the proper format, you should invest in "The Screenwriter's Bible" by Trottier. It's, perhaps, the most basic book to always refer to when you have formatting questions.

Good luck. Keep writing.

Merry Christmas and happy holidays for all. I hope the new year brings lots of success for all of us, and your luck extends to all parts of your life; from your family to your vocation (or in my case, my avocation).

Randy

Faith,

I suggest that you go to the meeting, but do not make a decision while you are there. Tell them that you need to think about it for a day or two, and then take their offer and discuss it with someone with more experience. If they want an answer now, it's "no, thank you". They should be willing to give you some time to think on it.

Since you are here in L.A. the rates are muych better than Canada, so don't accept anything less than $2,000. A good option to shoot for is $10,000 for 12 months with an extension for 12 months, but for another $10,000.

A lot depends on what the budget is for the film. If you have a big budget, then you can ask for the higher numbers, but if you have a feature that is a low budget ($100k to $3M), than you might get the lower number for 12-18 months.

At the end, it is whether you are convinced that these producers can actually get the script produced. Don't let it go for too cheap, because no one will respect a script they got for cheap.

Unfortunately it will be hard to get an agent, manager or attorney excited about handling an option for little money. They want $ also, and if you take the $500 Marcel suggested, they wont' touch it.

In the end, you must decide if you let go of this script now, will your compensation be enough to just write it off? With the option to a new startup company, you are taking a larger risk than a more established prodco. As a writer you must be willing to sell your work, but not give it away and never see it produced. Take your time making this decision. If they push too hard, back off and reconsider.

Good luck. I hope for the best!

Randy

Howdy,

I am looking for fellow Texans who are writing screenplays. I have been in Southern California for 26 years and ten of those in Los Angeles. I am moving back to Ft. Worth, Texas, (big changes for me with family and day job) in March/April and would love to meet fellow Texans (I was raised in Ft. Worth) who share the screenwriting passion.

We have several support groups in L.A., and I would love to find something similar in Texas. I don't mind the drive to Austin, Dallas or within a 3 hour drive. Houston is a bit far.

I will be taking both my screenwriting and filmmaking skills with me and look forward to even bringing my "The Actor's Workshop" to Texas.

Please list here or send me your info @ randyrob@earthlink.net.

Thanks.

Randy

Paula,

We may have to give you an honorary Citizenship for such a great knowledge of Texans and their organizations.

Not something given lightly or taken lightly.

Thank you.

Bryan,

Thanks for remembering and asking. I submitted "Respect" to Slamdance, NoDance, Tromodance, Cinequest, SXSW, Taos, Chrysler, Nashville and Sedona. Didn't make Slamdance, NoDance or Cinequest. (Saving the rejection letters, just like the screenwriting contests.) Waiting on hearing from the others, as their deadines aren't up yet.

I did get into The Native American Film and Television Alliance Film Festival where the screening went super, but the judges chose another short for best. It was a good competition. It was great to see the film on the big screen.

Still plugging away. Maybe it'll screen at another one this spring. I hear all sorts of stuff about "oh, that one's all political. You have to be connected" stuff, but who really knows? I see a big similarity to screenwriting contests and film festivals as to who to submit to and how do you really get your submittal accepted.

Looking into Houston and Telluride now.

Kim,

Small world is right. I have found that L.A. is really a pretty small town as well.

I was born and graduated from high school in Ft. Worth and have a B of Architecture from Texas Tech. I have also been in SoCal for the past 26 years. I am really looking forward to the move back to Texas.

Maybe what might be a great idea to have a general meeting of screenwriters and/or filmmakers in Austin. Pretty central and needless to say, lots of facilities there. I also have a cousin in Houston who insisits I visit this next year.

I may also give an actor's workshop in Texas. I gave one here last summer and it was a big success.

You can drop me a note @ randyrob@earthlink.net.

Randy

David,

Do a word search here on MovieBytes for "Pinch". There are more than one side to the coin.

Edgar,

You are at a great age to begin. Fame is fleeting, but earning a living at what you love is priceless and lasts a lifetime. Stay in touch. What classes or seminars are given in your area? A few seminars from folks like Jeff Kitchens (screenwriting) go all over the U.S. Be cautious about taking acting from someone who has really never seen the camera lens from the front, or be sure it is a Director who knows the camera and not just "book read".

I'm a big believer in books. I have quite the library. My most recent great find is "What Lie did I tell?" by William Goldman. Great stories and he even starts a screenplay and has it critiqued by five other experienced writers, who rip it but give some great ideas for "fixing" it. The story about "Good Will Hunting" is worth the price of the book. (Yes, the final draft was written by Goldman, who received NO credit, and Damon and Affleck claimed the Oscar)

Mary Kay,

Since I will be well entrenched in Texas by that time, count me in. Austin is only a 3 hour drive (at least that's what I claim in case the TX DPS is lurking).

I'm working on a couple of scenes thtat involve the phone conversation. I'm using:

Int. Sheriff's office

the phone rings. Sheriff Nichols picks it up.

Int. Phone Booth

David has dialed the Sheriff

INTERCUT

Sheriff Nichols

Hello.

David

Sheriff?

Is this o.k.?

Steven,

PLEASE bring Canadian beer! I do love my native state, but two things they can't do is brew beer and make wine. Sorry, my dear Texas, but "Texas Pride" beer and any white or red wine from TX can't stand up to any CA wine or any Mexican or Canadian beer. Perhaps there have been some decent mico-breweries pop up in the last 10 years, but bring a couple of extra cases from Canada just in case.

Beer and Tex-Mex food.........heaven on a hot plate and cold mug.

I'd have to agree with Mary Kay. Everyone can see that there is a lot of crap out there from Hollywood. The same can be said of "indies" as well. The film festivals are full of "edgy" films, which is filmspeak for "crap that makes no sense or without logic".

"Oh, Brother..." was an outstanding film, and the soundtrack even exceeded the film. "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" is the biggest box office success as an indie film, and because it ignored the sacred "13-20" male target market profile. The critics have IGNORED "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and are obviously out of step with the "Other" market...the over 30 crowd.

In business there is an old saying in marketing. "Find out what every body else is oing...and don't do it".

John Sayles is, perhaps, a filmmaker who is the epitome of doing it best. He does commercial films for the studios, and he uses that money to finance his own films, which Hollywood actors stand in line to be in. A short conversation with a very well known actress who recently did a John Sayles film said to me, "you know there will not be a trailer, and everyone will be eating together. BUT, you don't care. You wouldn't be going to your trailer anyway. You wouldn't want to miss anything on the set. You sign up knowing that all the money you didn't make has gone into the film and great production values, and you'd do it again in heartbeat". (paraphrased, but accurate)

There will always be commercial films, some good, many not so good. The same will be said of "indie" films. If you are concerned about writing quality scripts so they will eventually be made, don't give up. Quality scripts may take 5, 10 or more years to get made. Robert Duvall took 10 years and all of his own money to make "The Prophet", and it was worth the time, money and effort. Don't despair. Perservere.

Mary Kay,

I have always liked your posts and replies. Now I have a greater admiration for your willingness to stand up and take a position that is not of the, supposedly, majority opinion. I must agree with your recognition of "Casablanca". Maybe McKee ripped it in a seminar. Who cares? I have had two other seminar leaders, one writer and one director, who were very positive in their assessment of "Casablanca" in story development, character development and even casting. To take "Casablanca" out of it's time and the audience it was originally intended to entertain is simply misguided. Understanding who the audience was in the forties was a key part of the film's success. That it is still regarded today as a "classic" gives it a high scorecard with moviewatchers. Whether "Titanic", or any film in the past decade, is capable of that 40 years from now is any one's guess.

Reasons for rejections is lengthy enough without creating nuances of reviewing classics. Perhaps the "bottom line" here may be that the readers are 1.) not experienced enough to offer a concise and educated opinion, 2.) don't like that particular genre (personal experience) and 3.) are motivated by internal politics of their company or the company they are trying to "package" the script for.

Ellum offered a lot of valid points, as did many other posters here. Perhaps the key here may be more education and perseverance. The "more education" may apply to both the writer and the reader. The perseverance applies to the writer, not the reader who first needs "more education".

Johnny,

Hey, Pard. Not moving until March or so, dependent on finishing work here and when the new project in Ft. Worth starts. My folks would love it if I was already there, but loose ends to tie up and bills to pay are keeping me a little longer.

Steve wants to do a lunch instead of a breakfast. Let's shoot for next weekend.

Johnny,

3:00 p.m., Sunday, Jan. 19, at the "U4 Kafe'", 11282 Ventura Blvd. @ Eureka, a couple of blocks East of Tujunga and across from the Office Depot. Let's take over the outside seating and run off all the smokers.

If you are in L.A. and have Sunday open, come by and visit. No structure, just conversation and a possible swapping of scripts.

Randy "Writeum Cowboy"

Karen,

I apologize for not responding to your post under Texas screenwriters. I am very proud of you in that you went to UT and on the Michener scholarship. Congratulations.

I did not respond because that situation does not apply to me. I graduated from college 30 years ago and have no intention of going back. I have responsibilites to my family now and can only attend the School of Hard Knocks with Johnny and a few more of us.

I'm sure Michener's Center is a good one for those looking to go to college, but knowing a little about the profiles of the posters here on this message boards, the majority are past that phase in their lives and have a full plate as it is. I did meet one successful screenwriter last weekend that did take off a full year to study, but he did it without attending college.

There is more than one path to a screenwriting career.

Miriam,

That is one of the nicest compliments I have ever heard. James Garner, ala "Rockford". (never missed it on the tube). The beginning of a successful career for Steven J. Cannel.

Actually I have been called a younger Brian Dennehy.

I haven't fantasized about anyone on the board yet. I'll need to put that in my planner "to do" list.

Johnny,

SHUT UP! (I mean, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) I'm working here!

Trying a new angle. You know, Hollywood looking Dude. Maybe I should have said Brat Pitt or Nicole's Ex.

Nah. I'm not that good of a liar.

I attended his session at the Screenwriter's Expo here in L.A. He ticked off a lot of people with the "F" word every other sentence and most of the women I spoke to did not care for his "attitude". I decided to send him three "pitches" via his fax machine as per his request to the audience. I waited two weeks and then re-sent a letter asking if he had any interest in them at all. I made it easy for hism ot "circle Yes or no" and re-send the fax, but no response. I waited another two weeks and still no response.

According to others, he has a reputation for his honesty, but with me, his reputation includes a non-professional approach to soliciting ideas and then no reponse. Perhaps he thought my ideas "sucked" and just filed them in the round file. It is amazing how Hollywood is so callous that a simple "no thanks" is out of the question.

He has made money for himself and others. I'm just not one of them.

Johnny Will Young, Kristen, Steven Lee, Greg and I all had coffee and deserts last Sunday afternoon in Studio City. It was about three hours of non-stop conversation on the "biz" and screenwriting. It was a great time. Some exchanging of scripts and business cards, but just good conversations until the place closed down and we had to climb over a fence to get out. (funny)

Johnny, Steve and I started this several months ago, and a few more nice folks have started to join us. We are all in the San Fernando Valley, but maybe some of you who live near each other could do the same. Find a fun coffee shop or small place that would tolerate a small group hanging around for two or three hours. Then you don't have to guess what each other looks like.

If you plan to come into town to visit (Los Angeles), let one of us know and we'll try to plan a coffee meet around your visit so you can get in on the fun as well.

Ellum,

You have reached your "hazing" condition early. Your standing "toe to the line" position has put you in the group with a lot of us. Several of us have taken positions and stood our ground. I have not responded to your posts until now, mainly because I am one of the more "hard ass" guys on the board. I have had my share of bloody noses here, and I still remain due to the respect of many of the posters here, and Frederick is a great webmaster/author.

I congratulate you in the sense that you stated your position, and then LISTENED to the responses. You disovered that there are many good folks here, and although some of the threads are silly, many more are good, and even serious, discussions for "newbies" in the screenwriting realm. Maybe you will be of value here. That depends on you and your open mind. I hope you will be a source of inspiration and knowledge for a lot of good writers-to-be here. Maybe even you might learn a thing or two here. I hope so. I wish you good fortune both here and in the world of screenwriting.

Randy

FIRST DRAFT "I still remain due to the respect of many posters here." SECOND DRAFT I still remain due to my respect for many of the posters here. FIRST DRAFT "Maybe you will be of value here. That depends on you and your open mind." SECOND DRAFT Maybe you can be of value to this board. That depends on you, and because you have shown an open mind, you can be of value. FIRST DRAFT "Maybe even you might learn a thing or two." SECOND DRAFT Maybe you might even learn a thing or two.

It is true. Second drafts are more clear in the true meaning of the writer. Glad I had time to review my work and re-work it. I hope the second draft is better.

Randy

MK,

The real "Randy" has no team. Used to be the Dallas Cowboys until Jones fired Landry. Wandered around until I became a Joe Montana fan for the 49 er's for a while.

Now that I'm moving back to TX, I'm considering the Cowboys again since Bill P. will be in charge...as long as Jones stays out of the stadium.

The game was a rout. The Buc's SLAUGHTERED the wimpy raiders. At least Jerry Rice (the best football player of ALL time) got a touchdown. The Buc's coach got a well deserved REVENGE on his previous firing.

O.K. I confess. I just watched the game so I could see Shania. Awesome. I am such a single guy!!!

Wish I had bet the "money line" in Vegas for the Buc's. BUT, if anybody made money, it was Vegas!

MK,

I, too, have a heavy heart from this. I will join you in your post.

This is a dangerous profession. They knew that, but you still don't want to think this can happen.

I will add my prayers for the families and hope for their memories to be bright in the minds of their children and loved ones.

Paul,

Stange experience,indeed. Although I did have a deja vu thought about the "older chic". (just kidding)

Miriam has an option agreement which PAYS her to rewrite for $$$$$. And anyone who has ever read the "A list" writers knows, "writing is re-writing".

Miriam, can I get a first edition of the novel. I have scores of business and non-fiction boks to read. I need some escapism!!!!!!!!!!

Ran

Mary Kay,

Even if a scene does not end with an action, the Director will create one. The reason for this lies in the editing and continuity of the flow of scene to scene. "Jump cuts" are difficult during editing if they are not planned. Some might say that "that's not the job of the writer", but just remember, someone has to do it. The more a writer knows about the Director's and Editor's job, the more the team works together.

Sometimes an actor will exit stage right and if the next scene he is walking the wrong way, it seems disjointed. Not that you should say " he exits stage right", but giving someone an exit or entrance at the end and beginning of a scene allows a more fluid transition between scenes. It is difficult to start a scene static and jump cut to the next scene in action, or even more boring, static again. That's why we, as Direcors, say "action" to begin the scene. Again, if the writer doesn't do it, someone else will. Why not consider it during the writing stage?

EXT. L.A. CITY STREET-DAY

Thomas is standing next to the lamp post.

INT. STORAGE ROOM - CONTINUING

Thomas hands Jeffrey several boxes.

How did Thomas get into the room, and where is the room in relation to the EXT. scene? Was Jeffrey already in the room, or did he follow Thomas in from the street?

Action at the end of a scene allows a "pan" or a dissolve or an actor to walk off camera while we notice someone watching him leave or a HUGE number of options for the Director. I enjoy developing the process from not only one scene to the next, but I love the idea of the small smile on the face of the audience because they got the subtext in the shot.

RR

Veena,

"Get the picture?" No, you certainly don't. You missed the point. My skeleton example was to to try and explain an extreme example. You took it as gospel, and there-in lies the rub. You missed the point, but I'm not surprised. Anyone who would even mention a "soap" as an example doesn't relate.

It is so hard to get the short sighted writer to understand how hard it is to get a drama made, so I'm not surprised you don't "get it". Sorry to be tough on you, but you opended the door with your short sighted criticism. You are a poster boy/girl for a lot of your collegues who are cloistered in your special writing cocoon who don't care about the finished product. That is left to others. If you care to re-read my post, I said "someone has to do it, and it might as well be the writer." Directors will ignore your lack of knowing on how to film the scene, and we will have to make it work.

Keep doing what you are doing. We know how to "work around you". Some writers will "get it". You just aren't one of them.

Go back to your soaps.

Veena C.,

Your insults are a knee-jerk reaction and non-responsive to the specific examples. Your response on other threads was just as knee-jerk, and you got your hackles up at the other posters who were writing about a particular subject and scolded them for not writing about writing.

As for my profile, I used to post it on this board, but some other posters (as rude as you) decided to flame my email, so I deleted it for a little privacy from them. As for my experience, I have studied here in Los Angeles for 10 years as an actor and have also studied writing and Directing in several of the schools around town. (no, not the universities) I have worked production in many aspects and I have already written, produced and directed two short films, one of which is on the short film circuit. I have also "contributed" to this forum many times for the past three years. I do not do so as much now because I am very busy and don't really have the desire to deal with short sighted individuals such as you.

Your "flaming" took the disagreement to an unacceptable level. We are here to learn by sharing experiences with each other. I offered my thoughts and you attacked them, while not thoroughly reading them. Your response obviously missed the point, and there is no sense re-hashing it.

As for your resorting to rude name calling, it is an example of what is NOT best on this site. I have met and agreed/disagreed with many writers on this board, most of whom I respect for their participation. They do not resort to "flaming" as you have.

I hope others can benefit by the suggestion to either consider ending with an action ( and paying attention to what and how) or at least talk to an experienced Director and Editor about this topic. I chose to talk to them before I shot my second short film, and it shows.

I'd like to clarify a few comments/quesions made here.

Using the term "exit stage right" or "exit camera left" are used to direct actors on the stage or on film. If you tell a stage trained actor "exit camera left", the will either hesitate or exit stage left (to which you just smile and say, "no, your other left") It's confusing, kind of like the old argument between the D.P and the Director about when you are "crossing the line". Crossing the line has NOTHING to do with dialog.

As for me, on my film location I did only two things: Direct and write checks. I had a good D.P., a Producer who doubled as a 1st A.D., a gaffer, a Key Grip with one assistant, a Sound Eng., and wish I had more than only three P.A.'s. I am not a one man show, as you assumed. I checked my ego at the door to the hotel room and let my actors and crew do their job. Discussions with the Producer, D.P. and the Editor led to my understanding of action transitions and why they were of value. The Editor and Producer educated me about "jump cuts" (no they don't do television) which, as the editor showed me in post, were not desirable. Made logical sense to me. I found new ways to transition scenes, but not every scene. I try to steer clear of people who say "always" or "never".

I am a filmmaker, not just a writer. I have several screenplays that I might not get to direct, so I do not include directions or transitions between scenes, even though I love to read William Goldman's screenplays. He uses them a lot. But then again, he IS William Goldman. It is a good place for a new Writer/Director to learn from an accomplished writer.

As for my opinions based on my experiences, they are suggestions, which, I thought, Marcel was asking for. Marcel, it is a good question, and since I have not found it discussed in any of my writing books, it is a good question to ask to a panel of writers next time in Austin or Santa Fe. Since my experiences and opinions are my right, I will continue to offer them in open forums. It was simply an opinion on scene endings, not brain surgery. As for your comment that I am wrong and should not offer them, you are wrong. If your opinion were the only one that counts, why should anyone one else even offer one, unless they happen to agree with you. Age does not necessarily bring wisdom. When it comes to writng or filmmaking, nothing is set in concrete. To quote Goldman, "Nobody knows anything".

As for flaming, it's all yours, Veena. I couldn't possibly compete with you in that arena. You have shown your expertise there. I disagree with your calling me rude, but will leave it at that. I think this flame war has gone on long enough.

Veena,

"Go or stay in peace. I believe there is room in this world for each of us -- unless we are another Hitler."

I could not agree with you more.

Kevin,

There is a group called the "Alameda Writer's Group". Ask Johnny Young about them. He is one of their regular members.

There is also the "Story Conference" starting March 15. Look them up on www.twoadverbs.com. Really good group led by Christopher from ICM.

I just read the article in the newest "Creative Screenwriting" magazine, and it covers this very topic. It covers specifically the Fade In: controversy.

Rick, I don't think you could have said anything more damaging than this major article.

"There's no crying in baseball!"

Love that.

Jack Lemmon looks to Tony Curtis in "Some Like it Hot" as they (In drag) watch Marilyn Monroe walk away through the train station. They lean out of the window. Lemmon says, "Look at that! It's like jello on springs!"

Love you Marilyn. Miss you, too.

Let's put it this way...no obituary in CA or WA state after the notice.

Alex,

The Thomas Brothers Guide is imperative.

Extra work, non-union, is conducted through "Cenex", a part of "Central Casting". As a matter of fact, the are in the same building located on Burbank Blvd. in Burbank. Find them in the white pages. Signing up is $20, cash, and you have to be signed with Cenex for 99% of the real extra (background actor) work in the studios and feature film. You can hire a casting call service if you want full time work. There are several, and some are rip-offs. The only one I ever used was Cameo Casting, the cream of the crop, and not easy to get into. David O'Day owns the company, and the best jobs go to him first. He charges a per month fee, which you earn back in about a 2-3 day time. It is well worth it. The office lines up work for you, calls you in the evening with your call times, locations and what wardrobe to bring. A friend of mine did a 2 week shoot on a cruise ship for a feature film (Grumpy old men feature), and I landed a lot of great work, including 23 episodes as a regular on a sitcom. regular Mon/Tuesday work every week with the same cast.

Getting SAG vaouchers is tough. DO NOT ask the 2nd A.D. for one when you first show up. They hate that. Wait till you get a good 4-10 day shoot, show them how reliable you are and then mention to them you really want to join SAG and need three vouchers. They will try to get you in line. Course when you get the SAg card, you won't get much SAG extra work. Lots of SAG folks and limited SAG vouchers, and you can no longer work non-union. Vicious cycle.

I landed a manager and commercial agent at a paid workshop run by many groups all over the city. I did one in Burbank down the street from Central CAsting called "Act Now". Ask for Trina. She is also in the same boat about acting, etc. They can give you the best advice on current ways to be seen and land an agent.

The best non-union gigs are found in "Backstage West". Some rip-offs, so be smart about what roles you actually take. Doing student work for USC is worthless. They promise copy and credit, and very rarely do you get copy. They also don't know jack about filmmaking. Cal State Northridge has the best filmmaking students, along with Los Angeles Film School (very expensive). Non-Union commercials are a good source of income. No residuals, but good pay, in comparison with normal $45/day stuff.

The thrift stores, and "Out of the Closet" second hand clothing stores are the way to build a good wardrobe for extra work. Get a used Tuxedo for about $50-75 dollars, and it will pay for itself in only 2-3 days. If you bring your own, the will choose you first on the list when they need tux's and will pay extra for you bringing it.

Extra work is also a vicious cycle, and many get stuckk in it for years. Set your goals, do the work, learn the craft, and then get out and into another part of the world of film. Keep writing all along, but don't share it with other extras. They won't understand a writer's passion. Save that for close friends and writing workshops.

Good luck. I hope you have as good, if not better, luck than I did in L.A.

Gil,

Ditto, dude. thanks for filling in all the "holes" in my report and other important stuff. Great add's.

I was supposed to write a book entitled "How to make a living as a non-union actor in Hollywood", but I got sidetracked with the real writing thing.

One other note...the casting Director Workshops may come to an end soon. The CA state has a problem with "paying for work", especially if it doesn't work out.

I did "Face Off" with John Travolta, who befriended me for a week when I was on his "team" as an FBI agent in the office. (The DVD was cut to elimanate my best shot, but you can see me 'out of focus behind JT in the shot with the champagne bottle). John said, "get in front of the camera. There is no better teacher than that". Pretty good advice.

"Break a leg".

Randy

Alex,

Oh, yeah. Get into an Improv group. Directors love actors who can improv in a scene at the drop of a hat!!!!!!!!!!

CHARGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Randy

Alex,

Most good schools have night and weekend classes.

Don't bother with the classes at the Church of Scientology. As soon as you are on their mailing list, they will never let go and send you more mail than all of your other junk mail combined.

Only go to the classes that will let you audit one class before you sign up. How are you going to know how good they are until you see them in action? No suiting, no deal!

Lots of folks teaching Strassberg; some goo, some o.k. Meet fellow actors and ask them who's hot today.

Gil, what's the name of the famous acting schoold on Hollywood Blvd. just 1/2 west of Highland? Can't remember but it has a good reputation. (A woman's name who taught there for many years. It's named after her).

Alex, be cautious of all of the scams they pull on actors for everything from headshots to acting workshops, etc. Remember, this is a business. Treat it like one, and don't put much stock in the ravings of fellow actors who have not yet "made it".

Again, break a leg.

Where the hell were you guys about a year or so ago when I had to take on D.G.'s "stuff" all by myself? It's so good to see that so many folks have joined since then to "stand up to D.G.'s "STUFF". Sorry I have been gone so long.

The best thing for those of us with high blood pressure is just to ignore D.G. He thrives on your responses. His cave is not big enough for his ego. Funny...I have been reading the last 100+ posts here and noticed the dates in comparison to the actual happenings in Irag.

As for D.G.'s post on how he criticized those of you who called people names, have you noticed that the first thing he does is to call people names? Look, he is the biggest hypocrite on the BB, and his rantings have ALWAYS shown his inane "lack of logic".

Warren, thank you for serving. Christine, hang in there...your posts are well appreciated.

Ron, D.J., et. al......your opinions are respected for your thinking the topics through. Steven K., as always, you are a breath of fresh air. Steve C., so are you, even though we disagree many times, you are still respected.

D.G. .........you desperetly need to retreat to the cave and "visualize a big fart". Maybe that is the only way you can relieve your buildup.

As for the "children" praying for President George Bush to do the right thing..........he did. Must have worked!

We are a nation of folks who believe in freedom and the right not to suffer evil abuse from the "secret police". We will now share that sacred right with the good people of Irag, who no longer will be afraid of Saddam Hussein and his "Fedayeen" and Secret Police. This new country of Irag will flourish when it begins anew. They will show the world that when a nation of good people are given a chance, they will rise to the occasion and become a strong nation, in spite of their differences, and someday soon stand side by side with America as a true example of freedom.

God (Allah) bless the Iragi people, and God Bless America.

Thank you all for joining me in this stand against "the inane ramblings of the nuts", and speaking your mind, as provided to you by the soldiers of many "wars" past, who sacrificed their lives to insure our freedoms ........ even D.G.'s.

It feels good to no longer feel alone in my views.

Thanks.

Randy

John,

On the matter of WMD's, General Franks was interviewed on Fox this morning, and said that the Iragi's have geiven them a LOT of leads on WMD's, and there are to many at this time to follow up. In time, General Franks believes we will find them, and they will be where these leads are shown by the Iragi's who witnessed them.

The return of the seven POW's makes for a great day. Welcome home!

Vincent,

Go ahead and send into the U.S. Copyright Office. Send overnight via Fed Ex so it will not take as long. If you send U.S.P.S. it can take up to 8 months or so due to the new post 9/11 restrictions. Keep your Fed Ex receipt and mark it properly as the Script's title. That's proof enough if necessary.

New blue suit? Looks good on you!

Ron,

You are in my prayers. God bless you and keep you safe.

Randy

At the top of the stairs is a post, and at the bottom of the stairs is another post. In between there are many, many "ballusters",(maximum of 3" space in between, as per Uniform Bulding Code) which make up the "ballustrade".

Sorry...I sort of went "postal" there for a minute. Gotta get another cup of Gold Coast coffee in the system.

Ahhhhh...that's better.

Hi, ya'll from the great state of Texas. I am looking to write a music video for a Texas Country band, and need to find the proper format. Anyone ever even seen a music video script? Any suggestions?

I leave the TV on CMT and watch every video on, and will start making notes on the better ones. That's one start.

I wonder where I might find a copy of a music video.

Randy

Terry,

Your story is truly a nightmare. If I had a dream like that, I'm sure I would wake up in a cold sweat, get out of bed and start the coffee early.

I know you are being discreet by not mentioning this Weirdo's name, but I have to disagree. If I had such a truly bad and unprofessional experience, I would want to share it with others who might get trapped into the same loss of time, effort and money.

At least we need better clues on how to steer clear of such a schyster.

Sorry you had to go through that. I hope no one else has to.

Terry,

I understand your not wanting to reveal this guy's name. I will email you for the info. Maybe Gil can name his consultant's name so we can choose someone who has been a positive help to him.

Carl,

This is really not the best forum for your advertisement. The vast majority of those who frequent this message board are your peers, and, thus, your competition. Kinda' like trying to sell snowcones to Eskimos.

You'll do much better on Writer's Script network, WriterBytes (on tnis website), and others. We all here have outlines, treatments and finished screenplays, not to mention a truck load of Unfinished screenplays.

Ron,

There are those who lament, "but it isn't fair", like life ever promised such a thing. You are a one heck of a man, and it has been an honor to have conversed with you on this message board. You show such diginity and self-control. I admire you even more. I will miss you, my friend. I'm sure a lot of folks who know you will, too.

I will remember your grace under fire and your will to make the best of a lousy "hand dealt". You, Sir, are a class act.

I do not worry about the after life, and I hope neither do you. I anticipate you are about to embark upon a new journey, and I wish you "God Speed".

Sometime in the future, someone on this message board will say, "I wish Ron Sparks was here to give his opinion. You can be sure he would have had a "big" comment on the subject". You will have left your mark here.

God bless.

Ran

Ron,

After reading my post, I need to add something.

I'd love it if you were to prove them "wrong". You survive and live to be 100. What a hoot. Planning for such an event, and then not needing it. Maybe that becomes your story, but in the event, you teach us all how to prepare for the inevitible.

Take "advantage" of the position you are in and write so many can learn from it. So many people in this position panic or lament. You choose to investigate it and record it.

Like I said...I really admire your class.

Ran

Terri Dickey is a screenwriter in L.A. Never heard of Randy River.

Marcel...calling Marcel......

What did you do? Raise the question and then leave town?

Not making much sense, MF. (that's MArcel Fayant's initials. I don't do Natalie Maines stuff.)

What on earth do you mean? Where did this question come from. Are you and Gil asking partial questions in order to get partial answers?

"Ain't it cool?"

Yeaaaaaaaaaaa............Keith!!!!!!!!!!

If you go and meet Mr. Reiner, be sure to take a pack of Camels so you can light up. He just LOVES people who smoke.

If you got 'em, light 'em.

I am going to jump in here and join my friend Deb H. I do not know Edgar, and I have never sent him one of my scripts, but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I understand the free catering bit for a friend who is a filmmaker. The filmmaker is kind enough to give credit to someone who helped him out. ( I gave "incognito" credit to "the horse people...you know who you are")for helping out in my film because they took cash and gave me a nice discount.

The number of scripts bouncing around with the number of limited managers and Prod-co's, who can blame them for reading a script that doesn't quite cut it, but shows promise, and they offer a service.

Maybe Edgar could have worded it differently so writer's might not have felt "taken advantage of...". In any event, maybe Edgar's advice might have been helpful. Who knows. Did anyone try his service?

I took advantage of a service offered me on this very message board. She may have been right about some of her advice, but she was so #******ing rude in her comments that I never wrote her back. I wasted some money on her advice, but I did a re-write and like the last draft better. At least Edgar was civil and professional in his response.

Sounds like we need to give the guy a break and back off a little. If his advice sucks, we'll hear it. If not, maybe his advice might be worth a fee.

Warren,

Good instincts. This site has become a little too dominant by just a couple of folks, so we have wandered out. Checking in a little, but will give this site a lot of wiggle room.

Great to hear about LOR. One of the best things to happen to films in a long time, especially with the load of *$#@ sent out this past month and last weekend. Would love reports from you on the progress of the thrid installment!

This site is cyclical. Sometimes it's a lot of good folks, and other times it gets like this. I agree with Frederick on his assessment of censorship. I do that by ignoring the *&@#$ and responding to posts like yours, but I will be less and less interested in some of the posts lately if they continue.

Stay the course.

Terri is right about Dov Simmens 2 day film school. It is the basics you need to know.

Indieclub.com is mainly made up of filmmakers wannabes, most of whom are male adolescents who want T&A or film vs. digital video arguments, and upon occasion, some intelligent info., but not often. Just look at the crop of discussion topics available today on the site, and you'll be greatly doissapointed. You won't believe the amount of discussion about "boob's vs. balls" posts. Very immature and clueless. Shame, cause the webmaster, Eric Colley, is a good guy who puts up with even more than Frederick has to.

I'm still looking for a good site myself for indie filmmakers. So far, not that good of value.

Randy

Eric,

I went to your website. Not bad, but your message sounded like you were seeking new clients (writers), but I see that you are a represented writer . The website shows your screenplays and writing samples.

Not sure who you are marketing your services for here on MovieBytes.

Fox news 411 said the following, and I agree:

Quote:

"Movies like The Hulk, Charlie’s Angles and Terminator 3 all opened big, but dropped off moviegoers' screens in subsequent weeks. Meanwhile, lesser-hyped films like 28 Days Later, Whale Rider, Pirates of the Caribbean and Finding Nemo are capturing box office booty.

“Nemo and Pirates have a good story,” said Brandon Gray, president of the box office tracking firm boxofficemojo.com. “Story is what sells a picture. Everything else is second: special effects, stars, eye-candy. People go to the movies to hear a good yarn.”

Every summer has high-profile bombs and sleeper hits, but this year the sound of blockbusters falling is deafening. Box office (search) receipts are down more than 3 percent from last summer, and the drop in audience attendance in the second weekend of a movie’s run has shocked some.

“We’re not seeing only a dramatic fall off [after opening weekend], we’re seeing a precipitous one,” said Thomas O'Neil, host of movie awards Web site, goldderby.com. “It’s common to see 30 to 40 percent drop off, but we’re seeing a 50 to 60 percent drop off.”

This summer's blockbusters have no story to speak of, and Hollywood's secret that they think everyone who goes to the movies is a lemming who believes the advertisements is false. As for the economy, who wants to waste even $10.00 today when the word of mouth says "don't bother".

Indie films.....the only future of good stories!!

RR

I'm sure everyone will agree... "Thanks for the memories".

I hope the will be a marathon of Bob Hope movies soon. What a wonderful way to remember such a great man with the best improv sense of humor and talent.

For the U.S. troops, yhou set a precedent with the USO that will continue with performers from now on, but none funnier or better.

Thanks, Bob. We love you.

Just finished the first re-write of a 14 page short film, based on "the Owl Creek Bridge Occurance" by Bierce, except it's a gritty urban cop vs. the bad guys in NY.

Added three scenes to my sci-fi/thriller so I could bring a little more closure to the Protagonist's search for his Father.

Chomping at the bit to start the music video script I did for a local Texas country band (think Dixie Chicks without atitude).

Can't go back to the MOW I want to finish, 'cause it's on the hard disk of the desktop that crashed 2 weeks ago, and I did not copy it to the laptop.

And then, of course, there's the day job that keeps me flying from DFW to BUR at least 3 times/month.

And in my spare time........

ha-ha-ha

RR

AAron,

Depends if you have a permit or not. If you have a permit, you can post a "sandwich" board sign at each end of the shoot that says "entering this area you hereby give permission for your likeness to be used in a film for distribution and hereby waive all rights to your participation in the video."

If you do not have a permit, this would be a flag for the cops to find you. And they would in a subway.

Good luck.

Also try www.indieclub.com

Paula,

Welcome to the "small" group. I hear your observations and complaints, and in between the lines, I hear what I love the most.

Face it, I'm jealous. I'll be sure to tell you when I finish my music video and short film in NY this Fall, and then you'l wish you were there again.

Congrat's. Eat your hearts out guys. Writing is great fun, and Directing it into a film is even more fun.

Ooops. I just gave away a secret.

Writeum Cowboy

aka RR

"Peer-ranked"????

Have you not seen the results of peer driven stuff? Does the term Greenlight" ring a cracked bell??? "ATTENTION...the inmates are now in charge of the prison!

Without professionals attached, I'd rather spend money on the lottery.

Better odds.

WriteumCowboy

Gregory,

Nice try. Coming up with a better moustrap sounds good, but the bottom line is you are reviewing script quality by amateurs and not professionals, who are the "buyers".

Would you go to college and take a class taught by another student who didn't know enough about the subject to teach the subject in the first place?

Peer driven contests are a gimmick. A waste of time and effort. I need feedback from someone knowledgeable who has actually written and/or produced scripts into films. Not someone who has taken one less screenwriting class than I have and isn't quite finished with the last 4 chapters of "Story". (or, God forbid, agrees with Syd Field)

Pass.

RR

Theresa,

Got to "file", click "save as" and you will get a new window. At the top of the new window will be the file you are saving to, and at the bottom of the window it will say "save as type". Yo0u can click on th edown arrow to the right of the selection and you should find ".pdf." Click on that and hit "save".

Done.

Randy

Another reason I love my FD6.

Got the 7-33 dated Aug. 23, 2003.

Thanks, Frederick.

Grover,

I, too, have high blood pressure and have refused the drugs prescribed by Western Doc's. I'd love to know more about some of the alternatives you have researched.

WC

D. Jay,

Yes to up to 2 but not three, as well. My FD6 gives me the option for 1 or 1.5 or 2 but not more.

Robert,

Thanks for weighing in. Your input is very valuable here. I will email you with some additional info.

WC

Eric,

I'm sure you have been to L.A. long enough, 'cause I used to live near the intersection of the 405 and 101 in the Valley. You are SOoooooooooo right. After 11 years in L.A, I moved back to TX and after a 3 day return visit to L.A., a friend called me while I was sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on the 405 and asked "how are you?", to which I replied "remebering why I left this damn town."

After 11 years, the only crime I was the victim of was when thieves broke into my car in the carport at night, stole my stereo and popped the trunk to get at that, too. They took the two large plastic containers without looking. Why else would they have stolen my "earthquake" survival stuff, including the large tub containing 2 cases of bottled water?

No reason to subject yourself to living in L.A. unless you are in production or writing for TV every day. I'd be more concerned about raising children in the lousy schools they have there (public) and the amount of drugs available. Drugs are scary everywhere, I know, but the jaded society in L.A. finds them more acceptable.

Just go to L.A. ehn your agent sets up a meeting for you to meet with the "buyers". Make sure they are really serious before you waste a trip to their offices just to "check you out".

Frederick, the story in L.A. must be true, and now you are sure to have it told by someone, if not by you. Get those fingers movin' acroos they keyboard, young man. If Woody Allen could write, he'd steal it, too.

WC

"when" you agent...

The "WC" stands for my moniker "Writeum Cowboy", which I forgot, I didn't use here. Kinda confused some of the new kids on the block, huh.

...when "your" agent...

damn.

Need more coffee!

Steven,

Nope, but he's a good guy. I met him on the set of "Chicago Hope" (He was the Producer or Assoc. Producer for Chicago Hope) years ago when I was cast to play the "commuter from hell" in the ER. (I was only in my shorts and laid out of the stainless steel gurney for 6 hours, where I was V-fibbed 22 times for 6 takes. (Man, was I sore)

We both promised not to screw up each other's name!

or maybe that's "defibulated". Someone else can correct me, but I still had to jump every time they jabbed me with the two paddles.

The Academy is a clique, a group of self-preservationists who haven't a clue about good films anymore. Proof is the "Best Actress nomination" of Keisha something-or-other from New Zeland in "Whale Rider". Not a good performance to a contrived story (paid for by the New Zeland fed. gov't) and hyped like it was some kind of sacred film. It was hokey and not honorable to the Maoris. It was hype and she did not do anything with her character to warrant any recognition. She even said "before" the nomination she didn't know if she wanted to be an actor or not. That's real dedication and ought to be rewarded by offering the nomination.

After last year's award to Michael Moore, we should all know the Oscar's are a joke.

Lisa,

We will have to agree to disagree. I thought Keisha's performance was barely acceptable and showed her inexperience as an actor. To me the whole film is contrived, and the promise of a feel good ending didn't happen. The dynamics failed to appear. The ending was predictable, her Grandfather was a cartoon of a character and supposed to be the antogonist who would be defeated by the grandaughter's magical ability to call to whales. Even the whale ride dissapointed me in it's less than dramatic ending. The entire film was hype and her performance, while acceptable for a beginner who didn't even know if she wanted to be an actor or not, doesn't belong with a group of very dedicated and talented actresses.

Again, politcal correctness carried to the nth degree in Hollywood by a dying breed of self serving iconoclasts who don't deserve 4 hours on a Monday night. I used to be a fan of the Oscars, but now that they have shown their true colors (only green), I will find an alternative way to spend that Monday evening, thank you.

I will see "Monster" sometime and judge Charlize on her ability to "suspend disbelief", and not on her makeup artist.

Carolyn,

To say that Paula did you a great service is make the understatement. If you check Paula's credits on her profile, then you know she knows what she is talking about. Anyone else in Hollywood would have charged you and arm and a leg for the amount of time and effort she spent on you "re-write".

As a Texas boy who spent all his summers on the farm in MS, I immediately got the sense of your film to be, and your prose, while not very appropriate for a screenplay, shows great promise and was very enjoyable to read. Screenwriting is a horse of a different color, and while there appears to be a great story in there somewhere, if you intend for it become film, you'll need to learn some more about the basics of screenwriting first.

May I suggest that you write the story first as a "Treatment" so the story will come alive when you begin the screenplay from the Treatment. The Treatment has far fewer restrictions on format.

There are a tremendous number of books in which to learn formatting for screenplays and how much prose is expected and when you are over the line. As a Director, I will ignore any directions the writer puts in the screenplay. If you submit to a "Hollywood Reader" they will find your use of directing to be amateur and it will be a big strike against you. Some writers cannot get over this restriction of no directing, so they have to learn how to direct their own screenplays.

Carolyn, May I encourage you to pursue this story about Southern "red dirt girls" and take the time to do it right so it will become a film? If you want suggestions on format books, etc, just ask and you shall recieve a plethora of suggestions from this MB.

Oh, and Paula...nice job!

Carolyn,

Here's acouple of examples of where you might be giving direction a little too much. In your second post you mentioned "Joe takes another slug of beer and looks at Selma". Also "..She leans on the bar, making sure he notices..." and "everyone gets quiet"...

I know that you feel that these images are important for you to convey to the Director on "how to do what you see in your mind's eye", but there is a fine line on when to suggest the showing of cleavage without getting specifics with the Director. These are the nuances that can be learned by a screenwriter, and Paula's suggestions are showing you one way towards going in that direction.

I'm sure that a good Director will be able to see the images you paint clearly, and will add their take on the film. It's the nature of selling the screenplay and turning it over to a Producer who will hire the Director. After the sale of the screenplay, it's out of your hands and there will be new re-writes which may or may not contain those scenes you worked so hard on developing in your mind's eye. I'm not being hard here, only practical. Your job, as the screenwriter, is to paint such a beautiful canvas that someone will want to help you make this a film instead of just a screenplay.

If it's any comfort, my first suggestions by another writer (accomplished much more than I ) were that I directed too much in my screenplay. He was correct, so I did learn how to direct, so now I can write down what I want if I intend to direct the script, but not if I want to sell it.

So far, you have our attention with your scenes and characters to date. Keep after it, and I wish for you the very best luck in your script. Knock 'em dead!

Randy

CArolyn,

I am probably not the best to advise you about directing, since I do it as well. Since I'm guilty it's easy for me to recognize, so I'm still in the learning stage of how "not to' do it.

"Selma (showing her best assets in clevage)" might be the way I'd approach it. (using parentehticals) I would not suggest that Joe take a drink at any time. Maybe "Joe"(challenging) might do it, but maybe a re-write of the dialog would be enough for the actor to read that Joe is being challenging without having to make a big point of it.

I guess I didn't get the rule of not using parentheticals as you did, but I do use them sparingly.

You also have to have enough faith in your own work that the reader will be smart enough to pick up on the nuances you write in, and then leave it to their imagination. Again, write it as best you can, and then leave it out there for others to add their interpretation.

When I write a script and on set the actor says "I don't think he'd(she'd) say that", I ask the actor to improvise. Unlike a lot of writer's my writing is not sacred. It can be changed on the set if it needs it. Sometimes the actor is wrong and I just ask them to try it again, but differently and make a suggestion about motive or response (director's stuff).

Again, maybe someone else can offer a good suggestion. after all, that's why we're here.

Randy

Faith,

I'm sure the Hollywood insiders truly believe in the flow chart you presented, and, as such, are caught up in a "agenda that must be upheld" in order for them to justify mistakes made in spite of adherence to the schedule and target market, etc.

I'm not really looking to that particular arena of venue. Too many have played that game and lost more than won. It's a futile excercise in frustration if you have no contacts or good representation. Even with good representation, it' still a high stakes poker game.

Thinking outside the box, I'm much rather interested in getting the film made independently. Mel Gibson has done all indie filmmakers another great favor. He broke the rules...or rather he declined to adhere to them by even looking for studio help. An it's not only Mel, but others, from John Sayles to a good number or "Rogues" who have proven their point with small films leading to larger films.

Some of the "rules" or points of the flow chart have merit, but to blindly adhere to them, as most studio MBA's and followers do, is veryfoolish. It shows a regimen inside the box with no flexibility. Some of the assumptions are exceedingly limited. The target market profile Hollywood can only cater to is the "Matrix" crowd (male, 14-21, who will go more than once to the movie house before buying the DVD) and that crowd cheated them by the second sequel. Mel's target market is a group ignored by Hollywood, and thus, untapped, ready for a good film, even if it is a shocking religion themed film.

Greenlight is just a Hollywood term for Hollywood only. Greenlighting an indie film requires a lot of steps, not just a studio head "ok", and even then it does not mean the film will end up in distribution. Since there are no guarantees in Hollywood, why trust the machine?

My next script wil be offered to several "good leads to Hollywood", but my main thrust is to develop and produce the film here in Texas where it is set. To me the real key is not the Greenlight, but the distribution. That takes some good networking, and sometimes nothing happens for that aspect until the film is completed, which another risk.

In any event, I understand the the majority of this MB and spec screenwriters in general, are willing to play the "Hollywood" game more than I. Just not my focus anymore.

Good luck, everyone.

Randy

Final Draft is a very flexible software when it comes to either importing or exporting screenplays.

My first screenplay software was "Scriptware", and when they no longer supported their software or did any improvements, I switched to Final Draft 5 (which I bought at "The Writer's Store", and they sold FD5 to me as an "update" since I bought Scriptware from them years earlier.)

I had two scripts in Scriptware and both were imported into FD5. I'm now using FD6 and can export my scripts as RTF files or even Adobe Acrobat, which almost anyone can read if you have the free reader.

It takes a little trial and error to get the process down, so don't get frustrated...just keep after it.

Good luck.

Steven, good to hear from you. I have anew email address I'll send you.

Randy

Wayne,

Since you were so "humble and polite", I'll try to return the favor.

Trottier's "Bible" is the first "guideline" book to have on your shelf, but the only real rule you need remember is from William Goldman; "nobody knows anything". Since I agree with Bill, I must not be one of the "know it alls", "amazing" or not.

While the use of "continuing and continued" or not used very often , if at all, the term "continuous" (though a cousin of the two aforementioned terms) is different in it's content. I think the author you previously mentioned used continuous to make a point in the scene transitions. Also the "rules" in Hollywood change from time to time. I have no idea why, but it must be something the mid-management dudes with MBA's are taught in the ivy league schools.

There are a lot of very basic questions asked here, because a lot of us, when we first started, came here to learn. Some newbies are unaware of the wealth of information in the bookstores, mainly because if you don't live in L.A. or N.Y., most of the book stores don't carry those books. This is a good place to ask dumb questions and get good answers about "how to learn the business".

Most of us are too busy to sit down and write long winded answers to basic questions that can be easily answered in those books. Several years ago one post on MB asked for each member's favorite books, and it was quite a long list, many of the books getting shared responses of "good" or "great".

In any event, maybe you could share with us some more polite and humble comments on how not to be "know it alls". I'm sure we'd try to be polite listeners.

Wayne,

I must apologize to you. I did not realize that on this thread you not only make the accusations, you answer them yourself. I didn't mean to interrupt your one man posting thread.

I'll stop now and let you rant all you need to without interruption.

(note: No continuation here).

WC

Wayne,

You have made such an A## of yourself in this thread. What is laugahable is your blaming people for being "non-readers", and it is you that made the first stupid mistake of mixing up the word "continued" with the slugline "continous", as I tried to politely point out at the beginning of this thread, but you obviously "didn't read it" properly. They have two ENTIRELY different meanings.

Then your rants went on and on with multiple posts (5 in a row is some kind of record), so I tried to "politely" make fun of that, and it still went over your head.

Now you have gone on the attack and have lost all crediblity with your raves and nose in the air about the "pro's" on this MB, but the posts on this tread don't seem to warrant any of your accusations.

I don't respond regularly on this MB (like I used to years ago) due to this very factor of some folks like Wayne, but sometimes you just have to call his bluff and attempt to point out that there were basic flaws in the beginning premise of this thread that seem to continue.

I' for one, have had a gut full of Wayne's tirades. I'm going to visit elsewhere and try to have a somewhat normal conversation about writing with other writer's who want to share good info about writing and skip the infamous "continued" topic.

Good writing to all who try and write with a smile on their face, or at least a grin.

Randy

"Slam-Dunked"????

Wayne,

You are a jerk, to be kind. You "screwed the pooch." You have shown your true self. No skin off my teeth.

You are responsible for your posts, and we have read them and seen what kind of person you are. No further need to explain. No apologies on your part for your posts, so you stand in defense of them. You are responsible for them. You stand in defense of Terri and Ellum and all the other "pretenders" and, as such, are a part of the problem.

If you are "sick of it", go and recover, and may we hope for a long, but successful recovery.

No matter what you choose to do in life, you must first learn the fundamentals in order for others to properly evaluate your work and progress.

As a young Architect, I had to learn drafting. In order to communicate my design ideas to the men and women who construct the home, the fundamentals of drafting give us a common language to communicate the homeowner's needs and desires. It's my job as the Architect to not only design their dream house, but to make sure the entire team who builds it does it properly.

On another website, full of young indie filmmakers, many so-called writers cannot construct a full sentence or understand syntax, so their ideas will never completely evolve onto the screen due to their lack of the fundamentals of writing.

Formatting a script properly will keep the "reader" from tossing your script out of sheer frustation. The beginner must learn to play by the rules before we have the power to break, bend, or ignore them.

Why so hard to learn and adhere to the rules of formatting, anyway? It's not like it's really all that painfull. The hard part is telling the great story instead of the mediocre story.

As far as the arguments about formatting, some folks need to beat us up with their take on the "rules". I still like Bill Goldman's take on it: "nobody knows anything".

Why "is it" so hard to adhere...

Talk about your fundamental breakdown! Stupid fingers are just too fast for my day today.

Miriam,

Darlin'...glad something so lame could give you a smile.

WE love you, Babe!

Randy

Jerry,

Be specific. What's so bad aobut it? I need to know before I upgrade.

Didn't really know v7 was out. My FD6 works pretty good.

Jerry,

Whoa!

That's the kind of feedback that really helps a lot here on MB. You've convinced me. I'm sticking with v6 until they get a lot of feedback from folks like you.

Make sure you send this good info to FD. This stuff they need to hear,and soon.

Thanks for saving not only the money spent on the upgrade, but the frustrations that would acompany it!

Randy

David,

Actually, there are a lot of differences between San Diego and Los Angeles. In San Diego the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

In Los Angeles... the sun rises in the west, and sets in the west.

You can't expect L.A. to do anything to the right of center. Besides, they pay too much for ocean front property not to see the sun just once a day.

RR

Eugene,

WGA agencies are strictly prohibited from charging ANY upfront fees such as mailing costs or script analysis. Some agents have recommended script analysis by other consultants and then get a kick back, which is also a huge no-no.

Any real agent has enough cash flow to pay for their own mailing costs and will recommend reputable script analysis consultants and not get any kick backs at all. The agent should only make money selling your script and getting it produced.

Unfortunately, managers do not have the same rules and regulations as WGA agencies and will try to chage for those services, but beware. You should not be paying any agent or manager any upfront fees for anything. Period.

As an actor many years ago I got suckered into giving my new manager $200.00 for mailing costs, which he deducted from my first acting gig he got me. Then I found out that what he did wasn't appropriate so I fired him and got a real manager soon thereafter. I learned my lesson and didn't loose out the $200.00, but I considered myself lucky and a fast learner. Learn from my mistake.

Randy

Yolanda,

Thank you for the update.

Ron, R.I.P., kind sir.

WC

Wow. I can use FADE OUT: AND FADE IN: in the MIDDLE of the script????????????

Man. I'm out of here. I've got a LOT of re-writes to do!

FADE OUT:

The Cowboy

Gil,

Now THAT'S cool!

WC

Margaret,

Not sure why you'd want to go from FD to Word, but if you want to send a script to someone via the internet who doesn't have FD, just save the file in a pdf file and use that to send the script. Adobe Acrobat reader is free, and everyone should have that anyway.

Sorry, Charlie.

"Can I write a short screenplay in 24 hours?" NO. Why would I? Stupid premise, not only by you but by all the other "fast" contests.

There are also stupid "we can build this house in three days" competition. As an Architect, you'd never find me living in one of those.

Really stupid.

Terry is right; "good is another". I'd rather write good screenplays than fast ones.

Charlie,

In case you aren't aware of the typical screenwriter, we have plenty of "pressure" to write and make deadlines. They are deadlines we choose to make for screenplay competitions, etc. When we get lucky and someone either buys a script or we get great feedback, we then have new deadlines for re-writes.

It's the premise of your contest that is flawed. The deadline is manufactured as a requirement of the contest. As an Architect I have always had deadlines and pressure to complete work, especially design work, but the deadlines were normally a reasonable time limit. Your contest has set unreasonable time constraints which gives the writer insufficient time to comolete a quality script.

Let's face it, Charlie, your contest, as well as the other contest your mentioned, and a few others, rely on this "gimmick" to get attention. It still doesn't fly well in a reasonable time limit to do quality work.

In the business world we ususally mention three areas of concern:

low budget

speed

quality

Pick only two.

Charlie and Paula,

Some of us don't "CHOOSE" to be a part of a flawed premise. Say what you like, you cannot justify that 12-24 hours provides a sufficient amount of time to do quality writing work, which is a relative time frame.

I get your point, I just don't "buy it". Your "challenge" is for others, not writers like me. Do your contest, but don't expect me to think highly of it.

I suggest you not only do the writing contest, but that you shoot the script in a normal time frame so we can "see" the results.

I doubt if you have the guts to do that. Prove me wrong.

In any event, you are free to do your little "experiment". I'd rather spend one hour shooting one act of a good script, which takes as long as it takes to get the quality to the page.

Oh, yeah, it wasn't "Taxi Driver" in 10 days. It was "Van Helsing".

Richard,

I can relate to your situation. I have a DBA as "Positive Impact Films" in order to film my own scripts. Recently, after a simple posting on the Dallas Producers Assoc. list on Yahoo, I got an email from someone I'd never heard of looking for a producing partner for a script he was doing in the DFW area. I never solicited any material and probably never will, but I had to send out a "I'm too busy with my own projects" note to him.

I have no interest in any one else's scripts and will have a little more respect for Producer's who may read one of my scripts and "pass".

Here I am just plodding along and along comes Terri and gives me a deadline.

Come to think of it, that's a great idea. A little "nudge" to finish.

Thaks,

Randy

Alicia,

Check your spelling. It's "Shane" Black.

Here's the link on IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000948/

Steven,

Yes, "Bowling..." was a fake in that there were so many intentioanl lies and misleading comments by Moore that it could not be given any credibilty. The list of those lies by Moore is so long, and to tell you the truth, I'm tired of pointing them out time after time. Let someone else do that.

As for big changes, I am afraid of the changes that the Islamo-fascists terrorists would like to make.

As for Moore, I cannot agree that he "loves this country". He has agreed (in a previous interview on Talk Radio)that he wishes we were more socialistic in our Federal Gov't, and I think our Federal Gov't is too big as it is.

My problem is that Moore uses half-truths and outright lies in his "mockumentaries" and convinces his audience that he is being honest. I do not believe him due to the facts of his previous "documentaries".

I hate the fact that we on this message board will get into knock-down, drag -out fights about him and his work. I'd rather stick to the related topics of screenwriting, and, even though Moore has made a film using his own script, I hope we all can remain civil about this. To tell you the truth, I put very little faith in that happening. One can always dream of us getting along.

I know that my opinion will not sway one person on this board. Guess what? Neither will the opinion of any of Moore's supporters convince me to change my mind. It's not that it can't be changed, but it's that I have thoroughly reviewed his previous work and it's facts, and my opinion of his is , well, it ain't something you'd like to hear. Now we are deep into politics, and I hope to glean more good information on this message board on how to become a better writer.

That's about all the politics I will contribute to this thread.

Randy

Marcell,

Actually it's more like the "arc of the story". You're right, the main protagonist must "arc", or change, during the duration of the story. Supporting characters and events within the structure make profound impacts on the protagonist (and perhaps other supporting characters). The protagonist many times will resist these changes, ehich helps to build tension and also becomes another way to reveal the true character of the protagonist. If there is no arc, the protagonist never changes, so why is there a story if there are no changes in the character. Even a "coming of age" story is the result of the "growing up", or arc.

As a Director, we feel that each scene must "arc", and many times I will explain the arc of the scene to all of the actors within the scene without "directing" each actor at first. If an actor knows how the scene is supposed to arc, sometimes that's all the information they need to make a good scene great.

Allen,

You are free to disagree, but I must correct you about one thing. The character "arc" is not a formula. It is a tactic that you may use, if the writer understands how an arc works, to hekp in character development.

In support of Marcell's point is an article some might find interesting:

http://www.scriptologist.com/Magazine/Tips/Training_/training_.html

Allen, I don't use "formulas", but studying successful screenplays is a great way to hone your craft.

On the other hand, some of the "slasher" films have characters that don't arc. They hear a noise and go to investigate. "Don't open that door, you stupid..." you yell at the screen. WHACK!!! ("That's a wrap" for that character)

No arc, no head. Ooops.

"You are saying that the hero MUST arc. "

Nope. Didn't say that. Marcell and I are just agreeing on how the "arc" of a story, or the characters therein, "arc", or change due to the circumstances. It would be easy to cite hundreds of scripts and films where the protagonist arcs.

Seems like you are trying to pick a fight. Not going to really work with me. You speak in generalisms about the "story is king" (true) and just a good story will do (not convincing for me)

As for the "STORY is "way" more important than the arc or any segment of the formula that you call structure"... comment...Huh? Structure is the componets of the story is some reasonable sense of coherent cohesive order in which the series of events, or "spine" of the story compells the reader to the climax. This stuff is very basic in the forms of storytelling, and doesn't have to be "formulaic" in approach.

Not sure how a writer would be so antagonistic towards the idea of the story or character arc.

"When you look at the value-charged situation in the life of the character at the beginning of the story, then compare it to the value-charge at the end of the story, you should see the "arc of the film", the great sweep of change that takes life from one condition at the opening to the changed condition in the end. This final condition, this end change, must be absolute and irreversible". Robert McKee.

Terri,

You are right. Some heroes, such as Indian Jones or James Bond, do not seem to arc, but sometimes Bond, especially in the original books by the origianl author, did "learn" something and used it to be a better agent later.

Again, not all scripts characters "arc", but even in the Indian Jones STORIES, the conditions at the end show an "arc' to the conditions (the chalice was lost, then found, then lost forever).

As for the genres, Terri is right again. This thread is to discuss Marcell's original proposal about the arc of the story. I agree with him, and Robert McKee. (how 'bout that Marcell. I mentioned you and Robert McKee in the same sentence.)

Marcell,

At first I just thought "break a lead" was misspelled. What the heck is that???

Actors say "break a leg". What the hell is break a "lead".??????????????

New review of Moore's "film".

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

Very long, but concise and accurate.

I read your other comment on the other thread.

Is this the pot calling itself black?

And don't call me Shirley.

I saw a Texas screening last month, and I didn't cry once ...well,.., o.k.: maybe twice. If you don't cry, you aren't human.

Enjoy one of the better films of the year 2004.

Terri, Let us know what you think. I have some input on the ending, which some people don't buy, but I have an important comment about that. Let's continue this conversation.

Randy

Greg,

I went to both #1 and #2. Great events! Worth the time and money.

RR

Concentrate on the seminars. They are a sure thing. The pitch sessions are a "crap shoot". I have a friend who did a great job pitching last year. That lead to "meetings" in L.A., which all lead to nothing. Try to glean all you can from the great number of seminar and workshop leaders. Sure, they're all selling their books, etc., but some of us need to continue to learn more about our craft. This is a great opportunity about what's out there and to get a nice discount on the books, etc. available.

I also met one woman who spent most of her time just pitching. She seemed frustrated every time I saw her.

Ron,

Congrat's on getting the meeting. Now to the next level...getting their interest.

Enjoy the success of getting the meeting, which the vast majority of writers never get. Enjoy the simple pleasures you mentioned (I love the Paramount lot, too). Enjoy the fact that when you walk in, so many people will look at you, not recognize you, and wonder "who the hell is that?" Just look confident. It drives 'em nuts. They're all so paranoid. Let the actor in you be the "successful guy they need to discover".

Man, what a blast you're going to have! Remember this...we have faith in you and your talent, pardner.

Knock their socks off, Ron!

WC

I have written a short script (8 pages) and am casting for the actors tomorrow and Wed. I have been pitching the script to friends, peers and family for support, feedback and possible leads for assistance.

So far, I have been able to make everyone, save a few tough guys, cry at the appropriate parts. Especially me. I'm a sucker for my work.

Pitching the parts to actors and having them ask for the audition times is one of the better ways to know you have make a good impression.

Tomorrow and Wednesday, I hope they'll make a good impression on me doing my dialog.

God bless us all, I so enjoy this. Casting good actors and hearing your words transformed into characters is something I wish for all of you who have not yet done that.

"...into the valley of ..."

Randy

I had the first day of auditions today. I can cast 5 of 7 parts as of today.

Today was a good day.

Wish me luck tomorrow.

Marc Hernandez has earned his spurs, and he deserves credit, even if you do not know his past history.

He has been a benefit to several MovieBytes members, and he is legit. Some here need to know that not everyone will respond with, "thank you for your script. Gee. We just don't know what to do with it...BUT...keep it up. Maybe someday you'll write something we like."

Chill, people. If you got a response saying something to the order of "...what the hell were you thinking??..." maybe you'd appreciate a non-response.

Grow up. This is a tough business and sometimes your writing doesn't work for them. Most of my writing doesn't fly in Hollywood, so I won't even bother them. Sometimes it does, so I'll send it out, but if someone turns me down, or better yet, doesn't respond, so what?

Marc is the real deal, and just to point out, I've never even sent him my work, so there is no connection. Others on this board previously have benefitted from his input.

"What's New...?" is that he is honest and legit.

Count on it.

WC aka RR

Marc Hernandez has earned his spurs, and he deserves credit, even if you do not know his past history.

He has been a benefit to several MovieBytes members, and he is legit. Some here need to know that not everyone will respond with, "thank you for your script. Gee. We just don't know what to do with it...BUT...keep it up. Maybe someday you'll write something we like."

Chill, people. If you got a response saying something to the order of "...what the hell were you thinking??..." maybe you'd appreciate a non-response.

Grow up. This is a tough business and sometimes your writing doesn't work for them. Most of my writing doesn't fly in Hollywood, so I won't even bother them. Sometimes it does, so I'll send it out, but if someone turns me down, or better yet, doesn't respond, so what?

Marc is the real deal, and just to point out, I've never even sent him my work, so there is no connection. Others on this board previously have benefitted from his input.

"What's New...?" is that he is honest and legit.

Count on it.

WC aka RR

OOps.

I got an email from "The Stars agency", I think out of San Franscisco, wanting to read a logline and synopsis of one of my scripts. The have a "not recommended" rating on Preditors and Editors. Anyone know anything about them?

RR

Tom,

Paula is 100% right. My butt's out the door. If the producer's notes don't make any sense now, how will it be when he sends the 4th or 5th set of notes later.

When they haven't written any checks, don't work for free. NO FREE REWRITES.

Move on.

Steven,

You always did have more patience than I do.

I just think $500.00 is too little to take it off the market for a year. Once it's optioned, you're stuck. How far does $500.00 go in a year? $41.66 a month for how many months of work? Somewhere, somehow, you have to draw a line and say, "my minumum for an option is $----.00", and stick to your guns.

My minumum option would be higher, especially if he made a lame comment about killing off a character that didn't even exist in the script.

Just an opinion.

And I never ripped that agency several years ago.

ME,

You are right. I checked IMDB, and his role as "Gus Sands" is "uncredited, even in his list of film history. I know it was a minor role, but someone with the experience and depth of such a good actor should have been credited unless there was some dispute going on.

Interesting. I'll aska friend of mine in L.A. who is an experienced filmmaker.

Rsguared

If I paid any attention to such talk, I would have never started writing. Course, I was 45 when I "started" writing screenplays.

Those are Hollywood standards, and I don't write for them anyway. I realize that most of this MB caters to the Hollywood stuff, but I don't.

Kinda fun out here on the outside of the edge.

RR

Amanda,

You sent a money order to a management company? Really? I assume this was your first time to do this, and hopefully, your last.

What can you do? Make sure you write off the expense on the tax form as a "bad investment". Oh, and spend some time using more punctuation than just commas.

I'm so bad. Maybe Amanda's pulling our legs.

My recent script, started last year with my writing partner, is almost finished, but it has recently slowed down. Why? Probobly because my partner and I wrote a 22 page Treatment and were so excitied about the story that we started before we actually finished the Treatment. I'm now on page 114, and the ending is looming, but my Treatment ran out about page 99. We discussed the last part of Act III, but never wrote it down on paper, so now I'm "plowing" through the end.

Unfortunately my partner has withdrawn for family reasons, so I have to figure this out on my own, and I now realize I wish I had finished the full treatment and not tried for the "head start", so to speak.

I've got probably 12-20 more pages to go (over the 120 rule) and it's blazing some new territory. Gotta admit, it's still fun, and I am really enjoying it, but it's a lesson learned. Finish the entire treatment, even if you change the treatment later, you have something to fall back on.

As for being over 120 pages, don't worry, it really isn't being shopped to H'wood, anyway. I'll be trying for the good 'ol indie film "western, shot in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico" approach. Probably just as brutal as shopping to H'wood, but at least the bs that goes with meetings will be mroe pleasant and less stressful than waiting on the major studios. I don't think I'm really up for dealing with major studios "stuff".

Now on page 120. I did 4 pages today in about 1 1/2 hours. I stll have the deadline, but I got a call today from an actor bud of mine who read the first 100 pages and gave me some great feedback. I added 3 pages to plug the holes he noticed.

This is still great fun.

Ron, I'd like to let it sit, but I have an opportunity to meet an "A" list actor by the middle of October, who, if he reads the script and likes it, can greenlight it in a heartbeat. I must move on. Fortunately for me, the actor is also a previous writer and knows what an early draft is. I have also procured the services of a first rate reader and script consultant, and am excited about getting "script notes" to help with structure, etc.

Nothing like a deadline with opportunity to get the adrenalin in high gear.

Marcel,

Congrats! Nothing like seeing your screenplay jump to life on the big screen.

RR

As many of you know, I have been a member here for quite some time. I developed some good relationships with several members, and I've had my share of arguments with others.

Recently, I sent Paula DiSante a copy of my newest effort, a 144 page western screenplay for script notes. I cannot tell you have "jazzed" I am for these invaluable notes. They are incredible. After reading them (and getting so excited about the feedback, I was yelling "YES" so loud my neighbors heard me) I anticipate using at least 80-90% of the script notes on a major overhaul. Draft #3 is going to be such a kick-ass script, and I can't wait until the weekend when I get to pay ALL of my attention to the notes, changes and corrections.

Paula, there is an old business saying..."praise in public, criticise in private". This is a public "thank you" for doing such a great job. YES, she does charge, but in my opinion, worth every damn cent of it.

I am so jazzed...wait I said that, already.

Marcel,

Nope. She "plugged" up some holes already in it.

rsqrd

Amanda,

Be sure to take Barb Doyon's offer up seriously. She has a great rep both here and in other circles of writers. It's a great offer.

Rsqrd

Amanda,

Its been almost 2 weeks since you began this thread, and you have not responded to any of the comments or suggestions as of yet. I'm a little dissapointed that you have not done so. If you really posed the question in order to determine the best way to fix your problem, you might have responded by now. Barb Doyon's offer was something you should have jumped on. No one here can contact you since you have not done a profile, and you have only made 3 posts since May.

If you really want help and advice, this is a good MB to be a part of. Just use proper etiquette (not all caps), take a little jab about sending money to a management co., and respond to the posters.

In any event, if you don't respond, I suggest we let this thread die since the originator seems to have abandoned the cause.

Too bad. There were some good suggestions and offers.

RR

Gil,

Congrat's, bud. "Death takes a Vacation" has been around for a little while, and this is a good sign. Hope they let you hang around the set during the shoot.

Yaayyy!

Paula,

Man, are you ever going to love this re-write! (statement, not a question)

Using Paula's notes has been the best way I have ever had to re-write. I have enjoyed the hell out of this next draft. I'm having a blast. This is what writing is all about.

I'm soooooo jazzed!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RR aka writeumcowboy

P.S. Marcel,

More holes were shot, but his time by the protagonist. Damned "ol bad guys didn't stand a chance.

Paula,

Interesting topic, and I agree with you; there is a difference.

So, what am I? I claim to be a writer/director and filmmaker. I write screenplays (finishing number four today) and have written and directed and produced two short films. I have several other treatments and projects in the works in my writing.

I joined the Dallas Producers Assoc., the Indieclub.com filmmakers group and the Dallas Screenwriters Assoc. I have attended all three organizations within the last 18 months, and to be honest, I do not feel quite at home with the Dallas Screenwriters group, or even the DPA as much as I do the IndieClub.com filmmakers group.

At the writers group, we talk a lot about concepts and arcs and structure, etc., but with the filmmakers group we talk more of getting it in the can by use of good production. They just assume I have already got a great story, or otherwise they wouldn't be involved at that point. Several of the crew, especially the DP and the camera crew, lament that they have done production work that they'd just as well not have their name in the credits, due to the final cut, and partly due to the script (as well as the diting).

I love writing, as I have said in another thread here on the board, but htere is something about making it come to life that makes me feel I am more of a filmmaker than a screenwriter, like most of ya'll here.

Earlier this year we had a meeting between the writer's group and the Indieclub.com group to discuss the possiblities of bringing the writers and filmmakers together. Good concept, but there were 4 times more writers than filmmakers. I let several of the writers pitch me their ideas to shoot a short film. One writer pitched me an idea of a script where it was set in New York, the Italian area and had mob gangsters. I tried to explain the difficulties of finding such an area in Dallas, and the costumes and the actors with good Italian accents. She called me two weeks later and had re-written the script to be in heaven in the etherial setting, and I again explained the location problems, costumes, fog machines, etc.

Writers, so many times, have so little a grasp of what it costs and takes to bring a script to life. Filmmakers are always looking for a script that they can afford to shoot and make look good both in production and post production.

I think more screenwriters need experience in production and post production, and all filmmakers need more experience in screenwriting and good stories.

Alas, my suggestions usually fall on deaf ears.

Rsqrd

Just a side note as I read my post and note the misspellings.

Ferderick,

Is there a program you can add that will let us edit our own posts for 90 minutes after we post? Several other message boards have them, and it allows me to re-read the post in "real" time , find my miss-spellings, over run sentences and correct them myself.

It's now time to pay the professionals and hear the goodnews/badnews.

In any event, it's your first screenplay, first draft, and time to learn the tough news.

Good luck, kiddo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RR

While browsing my old hard disk, I found a once forgotten screenplay I started and never finished. I now recall writing several scenes, and it was all in Scriptware, my previous software from about 7 years ago. Since then I have used Final draft 5 and 6, and no longer have the Scriptware software, and my rtf. file won't open. Anyone still have their old scriptware software? Maybe I could email you the partial script and you clould save it as a pdf. file, which I can then convert into a FD6 file, and my work won't have been lost forever.

Jerry,

Review your contract. If there is no mention of a "pilot project", then you would be assuming something not in a written contract, and therefore not in consideration. If you got either written or verbal instructions from the producer for a "pilot" consideration, you might have a case, but you'll need any verbal instructions confirmed in a written memo or email.

I used to work at a Gov't funded aircraft plant as a teenager (draftsman), and we had a form called an "AOI" (Avoid Oral Instructions). When someone gave us a verbal instruction, you wrote down the context of the conversation stating your instructions and by who, and then sent a copy off to the person who gave you the instruction and kept one in your file. This way if someone says "I didn't say that" later, you have proof that they did. This was one lesson learned very well. Try this if nothing else works.

Marcel,

First of all, your vtape.org connection doesn't work. Second, everything you suggested are Canadian contacts. They want "edgey" stuff instead of more mainstream stories. Can't use your contacts.

Thanks anyway, but I hope Steven's post can find something better.

Better go find a jar so MF won't try to kick mine, too.

Gil,

Most of us who used to use Scriptware have left due to Scriptware's refusal to do upgrades and have poor customer service. Good luck with it. I used it for several years but won't go back.

I also will NOT upgrade my Final Draft to 7.0 until they work their bugs out. If they don't, I'll jump ship to MM when it seems time. The only time I'm faithful to a company is when their customer service fits the price of purchase. FD is on shaky ground with me right now.

Rsqard

Welcome to the club, Bucko.

Steven,

I normally do my own "due dilligence", but when the subject was brought up and peaked my interest, I responded. If I had started the thread and someone else had replied, I would have tried to help them out as well, not respond with a "cheeky" response of blaming oneself.

When you post on the board you expect others to read and, hopefully, reply with additional information. MF's info was intriguing enough to look at, but when it either didn't work (vtape.org) or was a lead that didn't offer me much, I merely reported it. At least Marcel added tigris later that does seem to have some interesting points, and is a part of another research I started some time ago. Some of them have turned out to be bogus, so I wouldn't give out that info to anyone else.

So far the sites I have found have been of little value, so I didn't lead you there. I also didn't "blame" myself.

RR

Ron,

I know the real answer, but I will not divulge it until you have had a few "funny' guesses as to what "MOS" means.

Let's just say, "it ain't in an english accent."

RR

Jerry,

Sorry, I don't buy it. If you do research for your "motion optical sound", you get nada.

If you do some research, you might get this...

1927: On October 26, the first “talkie” motion picture, The Jazz Singer (two short dialogue sequences, in addition to song numbers), is released using the “Vitaphone” system, which employed a 16-inch phonograph record synchronized to the film projector.

1927-1930: Sound-on-film systems evolve to include variable-density and variable-area. Sound was recorded on print film, which was then printed on the same print film as the picture.

1928: Disney released its first animated sound film Steamboat Willie, starring Mickey Mouse. The animation was drawn to the beat of a metronome, with a fully synchronized soundtrack of dialogue, music and effects.

1928: The first usable magnetic recording tape is developed by BASF in Germany.

1928: The Perfect Crime, the first live action motion picture with sound on film recording, is released.

1928: On July 6, Warner Bros. releases the Vitaphone feature, Lights Of New York.

1928: In August the first sound trailer or preview, Warming Up with Richard Dix, appeared.

1928: In December Fox releases In Old Arizona, the first motion picture to be mostly photographed outdoors with location sound.

1928: RCA introduces the variable area system to standardize its soundtrack to be the same width as Movietone.

1929: MGM’s first “all talking, all singing, all dancing film”, The Broadway Melody, is released. Irving Thalberg ordered one of the musical numbers to be re-shot. Having the actor “lip sync” the songs from a previous soundtrack saved time and money, and ushered in the practice of dubbing separately-recorded sound into a new scene.

1930: Monaural optical sound-on-film system is standardized. Also, the first electronic musical instrument, the electronic organ, is invented.

"Monaural optical sound-on-film" might be a better one, but I'm sticking with "mit out sound", cause I like legends.

Lisa,

I checked with P&E and they weren't listed. Any more information on this "ST Literarty Agency" like where are they or an agent's name?

RR

oops. forgot.

http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/pealsi.htm

Barb,

I'm printing out a copy of your comments and putting it in my laptop computer case for reference when I next go back to writing the script.

Thank you, very much.

RR

the best thing a writer can do for a script is ask for and get great advice from pro's like Barb Doyaon and Paula DiSante. It's like having a great teacher look over your shoulder and help you create a great piece of art.

Jeremy,

I appreciate your adding Mamet's article, which I can agree with wholeheartedly. I also have to agree that your comments about Barb's response (being somewhat insulting) was either thin skinned on your part or just perhaps a little too knee jerk reactionary. It was somewhat a bit defensive.

I understand your job as a reader. It is one I'd never do, as a friend of mine began that part of his career several years ago. He has since become very jaded and cynical and no fun to talk to about the biz.

Barb's input here is very valuable, and your addition of Mamet's article shows that your input can be very valuable to the rest of us on the MB as well.

There will ALWAYS be the argument of Hollywood's following the yellow brick road with a tired old roadmap. As an Indie Filmmaker who writes his own scripts, I love to vary from the norm, and perhaps that's why 3 of my scripts adorn only my own shelf and not others. My goal is to get my stories on the big screen, not just win contests or be passed around Hollywood like "Secondhand Lions" was for ten years until Haley Joel Osment finally read it (when the first draft went out to Hollywood, Haley as only 3 years old) AND, Tim McCanlies was a very well respected writer within the system.

I write two different types of scripts (something I sort of learned by respecting John Sayles): One to sell to a big production company who can afford it, and a lower budget script I can afford to shoot with smaller investors with me in the helm. The second scripts will never end up on a readers desk, so I can bend or ignore the "rules" at my own peril. They can be successful, or not, but until I try, I'll never know. I'll still be using Paula and Barb's service and advice to make even the low budget scripts a better script.

Randy

Greg,

Thank you so much for enlightening us on that fascinating detailed informerical about the thousands of underpaid and underinsured "readers" or "note takers" that is such a monumental topic for us to comprehend. Man, guess I was so in the dark about such a critical subject matter.

Guess you had way too much time on your hands to let such an important detail go undocumented.

Why, now I feel led to go out to the Target store and put up a homemade sign saying "give to the underpaid non-union readers who won't have enough money for holiday presents!!" Wait. Target is a no-no this holiday season.

Sorry, Greg. Guess they'll just have to tough it out this year. Maybe next year too. Maybe we could "draft"... no. They said that wouldn't work either. Guess they're screwed.

Greg,

Don't be sorry that I missed your reason for the post. It was intentional on my part.

Barb,

I'll jump in. I'm writing a new western script where the protagonist is the Texas Ranger trailing a very violent gang of 5 bad guys while they do their bad deeds across Texas. The Texas Ranger works alone ("one riot, one Ranger") and sees where this gang has killed a local rancher leaving behind a widow and a 10 year old son and has also devastated a small town by killing the bank President, the Sheriff and Deputy in cold blood.

He follows them to far west TX where the gang has acquired a map for a lost gold mine, which is guarded by a band of Mescalero Apaches (lots of research on this legend) and the Ranger must join with the Apaches to overtake the gang. Perhaps the internal conflict is the Ranger's past, and he is a widower from an Indian attack on his ranch while he was gone out "Rangerin'". Now must he join forces or be killed? Maybe he saves the life of an Apache he knows was on the raid that killed his wife? Hmmm.

Peter,

Man, you are good! Great ideas!!!!!!!

Thanks. It gets the juices flowing.

RR

Barb,

Great stuff! I have copied and printed the suggestions are they are now in my notes file for the new script.

I love this stuff! Learning new approaches and developing internal conflicts is great.

God, I love this work.

Rsqrd

Greg,

The only thing that "smells" about this thread is the innuendo, half-truths and unsbustantiated accusations you have made.

Some time ago a small group of writers made accusations about you and your organization. I supported your "innocence" while doubting the accusers. Seems that the tables have turned. I cannot tell you how dissapointed I am in your last and previous posts. I'm not sure what your agenda is, but I can tell you that you have lost a huge amount of credibilty with me, although I'm sure that is of no value to you.

I'm sure Jeremy's praise of you is enough. He is so glad to be a part of the Nichols.

Barb, even though I do not know you and have never used you as an analyst, the number of writers on this mb who have used your services for their scripts is pretty large and speaks volumes for your work and integrity.

I'm sure I'll never submit to the Nichols, as my credibilty with that particular "contest" is now shot.

Oh, well.

From "Preditors and Editors" website the following:

Lee Shore Company Ltd., The (formerly The Lee Shore Agency, Ltd.): a literary agency that is a subsidiary of CyntoMedia Corporation, also based in Pittsburgh. Owner also owns subsidy press. Not recommended.

Doug,

Go buy an ad in the classified or advertise section. The MB is for writers to discuss topics on screenwriting, not to be inundated with advertising like the above. When we need someone to hire, we'll go to the advertising section or classifieds to find you.

P.J.,

Sorry, but there was noting "aside" of my confronting Mr. Beal on his innuendo, so if you want to face off, pard, call me out.

Greg's comments were as I charged, and when someone on this board unfairly asks leading questions that insinuate lying, he needs to be held accountable. Trouble is, too many times people would rather turn away than face down a bully. I stand up to him and you, both. You can attack me on my calling him to task and to back up his accusations, but I will also stand up to your snide remarks as well.

Looks like this will end up in a flame war, but if you want me to back down from my stand and just go get an "adjustment", you underestimate me.

Paula,

OK. You got me.

Oh, the scorn....(lamenting)

Back to my script breakdown. Where is that rascally over the shoulder shot going to go?

May I wholeheartedly recommend that everyone goes to the website and reads Christopher's bio?

I am very touched, inspired and humbled.

Someone, a better write than me, can be a part of this production.

Merry Christmas, Grover. The best of the season to all your family.

Happy Channukah to all my Jewish friends.

Oh, and that might have been Michael Medved who said that. He's a film critic, a talk show host and Jewish.

Oh, and I might add, a very good guy.

Ron,

Where did you find a DVD of "Occurance at Owl Street Bridge"? I understand it was done several times, even by Hitch. I'd love to get the DVD. I wrote a modern day "Occurance" for an actor in NY (short cop action) based on the original story. Great story.

RR

Ron,

Thanks. I'm getting a gift certificate soon, so I'll splurge on that.

Randy

Since Ellum and Terry have successfully derailed the last interesting thread here, I thought I'd try to give us one more chance this year to vent, lament, coerce, or just plain gripe about last year.

This is the first year without my Dad, so that's the sad part, but I have a great history with him, and his influence will always be with me.

I wrote a good script with a partner for the first time, and loved every minute of it (especially the re-writes, thanks to Paula DiSante).

Shot a new short film and used it to raise money for the local Alzheimer's Assoc. Found an incredible production crew to work with and a new co-producer to develop new work with this next year.

Renewed a great relationship with an old flame (from 29 year's ago) and look forward to our next weekend concert (hopefully Jimmy Buffet in the Caribbean).

Quit a crappy job I do not miss one minute of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dug out a couple of earlier scripts I loved writing, but knew they were in dire need of help and sent them to a very revered story analyst for much needed help.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. Jimmy Buffet's newest CD, "Licensed to Chill" has a song he sings with Martina McBride, called "Trip around the Sun". One line is "Guess I'll make a resolution, that I'll never make another one...just enjoy this ride on my trip around the sun."

Happy New Year.

Since Ellum seemed to have missed the point, guess I'll try to make it a little more clear.

One person starts the thread, and others join in with their stories about their past year. "priming the pump", so to speak. The thread isn't all about me, it's all about last year for everyone.

Got off to a rocky start, but with a little bit of help from others maybe we can revive the topic.

This was a horrific tragedy of epic proportions. The original aid dedicated within the first few days will undoubtedly go much higher in the future in order to compensate for the total amount of devastation that occured, and it will be a whole world effort, or at least it should be. The US accounted for 40% of the aid given to other countries last year. We have always been the forerunner for giving aid in the form of money, manpower and expertise. We do because we can.

Comparing this to the war against terror doesn't really work. The US decided to join the war on terror, but the tsunami was a natural disaster which no one made the decision to have. The US, and other nations will help to rebuild after this disaster, no matter how long it takes or what the cost. It will take many years to rebuild and a very long time to get aid to these third world islands who do not have the infrastrucure to disseminate the aid they need right now.

As for whole families being gone, yes. It is a fact that these families live all within the same area, and thus are suceptible to the same disaster, which was so enormous that whole families have been wiped out. Tragic, but how can we criticise their way of life? I cannot.

We, who can help, will. It will take time, effort and a lot of fund raising. Already school kids across America are raising money for disaster relief.

While this message board is about screenwriting and we pretty well keep our messages to such topics, it doesn't mean many of us aren't contributing to the disaster relief. It just seems to be a topic that is best put elsewhere, unless someone wants to disseminate information on how and where to help. If so, please do so and I will contribute there as well.

Randy

Sorry. The 80's are kinda vague.

"I think I was there."

Nicole,

Be sure to tell the agent up front and tell him it was for work pre-dating this contract and you don't want any misunderstandings. It is my opinion that the contract cannot be "grandfathered" to earlier contracts.

Marcel,

"I've also gotten money for a couple of films."

Yes, you are a professional writer.

Unless, of course, they paid you to not shoot the script. Then, maybe not.

Pulling the old leg...

RR

Ron, booby,

They need to cut you a check.

Too much talk, too little action.

WE do this for a living,...not just for fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rsqrd