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I've seen a lot of ads on this site and others for services that offer evaluations, but for a pretty penny. Some of these even offer to put your script in the right hands once it's "ready". Has anybody out there used any of these and got positive results? I've been entering contests for about a year now with a few scripts, and haven't been able to get past the second round of any of them. I've used Zoetrope in the past to get some reads and feedback, and have done some re-writes according to what people have said, but nothing has been happening. I'm beginning to wonder if these "script consultants" are worth it. Let me know what you think.

Thanks

Bryan

Brian,

I've used several script consultants in the past with various price ranges and levels of service. A good script consultant can help you grow as a writer when you've reached a point where the next level up is "blocked".

What I'm suggesting is that the road we follow from newbie to hopefully WGA is one with road blocks of learning. For me, my roadblocks to date have been format problems, plot-driven vs character-driven stories, predictability, being "too-nice" on my characters and dialog.

At each road-block, a consultant, paid or free (review by partner or fellow writer) was the catalyst to allow me to see the problem and move on. I use the term catalyst because, like the chemical analogy, the road-block must be overcome internally -- the writer must ingest the understanding of the problem and transform it into a strength. Thus we grow.

There have been similar postings on this subject before. Some writers have a natural talent to overcome these road-blocks, others must slog through the mud until they can overcome the problem. Consultants can help you do that.

A word of caution. Don't let the consultant become the author of your work. You alone must retain control of your story or you lose the passion. If you take several consultants on a single story and combine all their comments, you'll undoubtedly wind up with a mushy story - lacking uniqueness and passion.

Some thoughts,

Steve

I've also used professional consultants and I think come across some of the very best and some of the very worst. Robert Flaxman , with his "Deep-Feed" analysis is one of the best. He's pricey but he goes over every detail and nuance of your script with lots of great recommendations. He's especially helpful for the neophyte because he corrects formatting errors. And on the other end of the scale I wasted funds with "Smartgirls" ( I wish now that I had taken the money and just thrown it out the back of my car). Some contests offer feedback for all of the contestants and I especially recommend Texas and Scriptville--both multi-pages long and incredibly helpful. Slamdance was also good but very brief. And again on the opposite scale I found Square Magazine's feedback nearly worthless. It arrived months late and was but one paragraph long--and was one someone elses script.

(Maybe I should have Robert Flaxman edit my postings too--sorry for all the typos!) I also agree with Steven that you have to maintain your authorship and vision for your script The professionals can really help, but you will always know your story better than they. Good luck, Jay

D. Jay, you said Robert Flaxman was good, but pricey. Can you give me some more info; where can I find him on the web?

And to everyone else who has responded to this topic and who will, your help is greatly appreciated.

Bryan

Hi Bryan, Robert Flaxman's "Deep-Feedback" analysis involves him studying your script and then spending something like 8 hrs with you on the phone over two consecutive days going over it page by page. I think my cost was in the $800-$900 range but you can get current info at www.deep-feedback.com or reach him at 213-896-1692. If you use his services I'd recommend that, along with taking notes, you also find some way to record the conversations. I had relied on note-taking and sometimes did not clearly write down some of the given advise. And have your script as polished as possible before you send it to him--I sent him such a mess he had to spend much of the time correcting my typos and format errors. For the same money you can also get 3-4 more modest analysis from other respected pros and maybe that would be better because you'd get balancing opinions. But I'm still going to hire Flaxman on my next one, if I have the means.

Wow! $800-$900? Are you serious? What do you get that is worth that kind of cash? Are the improvements to the script that remarkable? Yes, I'm dubious.

It may not have been quite that high--but it was a chunk! And I don't know if it was worth it. I think we need to be more circumspect on the money spent on all of this--it's said that the merchants made more money off the California goldminers than the goldminers earned from their ore. And so it is with us. Only the tiniest number of scripts ever sell and I'm reconciled to that. Flaxman did help me tell my story much better though.

P.S.--By the way, I know you're one of the "good" merchants, Todd. I'm going to list my script on StoryXchange as soon as I learn how to write a synopsis!

Never, never, never. Never pay for script consultations "services" Never. There is a far cheaper way to admit "lack of success'. I say "lack of success", because that doesn't not mean failure. In means only the failure to understand the art of selling, as distinct from equally great art of writing. 1) Does who can do; those who can't, teach. 2) Does who can do; those who can not, teach. 3) If you can, continue. 4) You are the only one who knows.

Judging from your email you are far from being a poor writer. You arouse interest, recognition, and engagement.

Now, be your own agent. Judging from your posting here you already accept that fact. So, sell, sell, sell. Sell your script.

Forget the formatting garbage; that's code for a polite way of saying "no bloody good". It's like saying a horse is good, but the colors of the jockey stop it from winning. Garbage. Truth is, no one gives a damn about formatting. The story, and its telling, is everything. EVERYTHING. The truth is the world is full of good, reputable readers and of good, reputable agents, who can recognize a running horse when they see it. Line one, page one. The smell, the prance, the kick. No readers or agent worth their salt misses these signals. Damn formatting, damn feedback, etc.

Give your talent its head. Let it run. You will find a buyer.

And what makes you different is this: The art of selling can be taught. The art of writing cannot be taught. You either have it or you don't. You, quite obviously, have it. You have the art of writing. You didn't ask anyone else to write it for you, or to revise it for you, or consult about it "for you". The same goes for selling it. Develop an ego as large and intrusive as you’re your writing ability, and push your way in. After all, you know you have the genuine passport. You need your share of luck, ok. And luck is your determination to capitalize on your talent. Barge in. You'll be at home.

Never, never, never. Never pay for script consultations "services" Never. There is a far cheaper way to admit "lack of success'. I say "lack of success", because that doesn't not mean failure. In means only the failure to understand the art of selling, as distinct from equally great art of writing. 1) thoes who can do; those who can't, teach. 2) thoes who can do; those who can not, teach. 3) If you can, continue. 4) You are the only one who knows.

Judging from your email you are far from being a poor writer. You arouse interest, recognition, and engagement.

Now, be your own agent. Judging from your posting here you already accept that fact. So, sell, sell, sell. Sell your script.

Forget the formatting garbage; that's code for a polite way of saying "no bloody good". It's like saying a horse is good, but the colors of the jockey stop it from winning. Garbage. Truth is, no one gives a damn about formatting. The story, and its telling, is everything. EVERYTHING. The truth is the world is full of good, reputable readers and of good, reputable agents, who can recognize a running horse when they see it. Line one, page one. The smell, the prance, the kick. No readers or agent worth their salt misses these signals. Damn formatting, damn feedback, etc.

Give your talent its head. Let it run. You will find a buyer.

And what makes you different is this: The art of selling can be taught. The art of writing cannot be taught. You either have it or you don't. You, quite obviously, have it. You have the art of writing. You didn't ask anyone else to write it for you, or to revise it for you, or consult about it "for you". The same goes for selling it. Develop an ego as large and intrusive as you’re your writing ability, and push your way in. After all, you know you have the genuine passport. You need your share of luck, ok. And luck is your determination to capitalize on your talent. Barge in. You'll be at home.

Thanks Niall, your message made me think some more and help me build my confidence up. I guess I just have to learn how to market myself somemore. It sounds like you know what you're talking about, so if you have any more advice on how to do this, let me know.

D.Jay, I don't know how you could pay all that money for an eval. The ones I've seen have been between $200-$400. If I paid $900, I'd expect it to be put in the hands of Lucas, Spielberg, Cameron, or Bruckheimer once it was finished.

Thanks all

Bryan

D. Jay - Thank you for the representation as a "good" merchant. We try at storyXchange - we really do. And for $800, you could list 80 scripts! What a bargain!

And to everyone else, I am truly impressed with the level of discourse and common courtesy in discussing this contentious subject. Good luck!

- Todd

I was a Realtor and I believed in marketing and I had a famous open house that lasted 8 days and nearly 20,000 people come thru and it didn't sell for another 6 months until the seller substantially reduced the price. Focusing on marketing instead of getting the right price caused the collapse of many of my collegues careers. Marketing is way overrated--at least in real estate.

I agree with most of the above, but I do think before you plunge into marketing your script should be as good as you can possibly get it. And that includes a clean format, good spelling, etc., which is not hard to achieve with some effort. Clean format just means you present yourself as a professional and don't give the reader an excuse to treat you as an amateur. Bad format or spelling/grammar errors might not destroy a great story, but it might distract the reader from seeing the great writing that is there under the surface. You don't want to give your reader an excuse to throw your script in the reject pile, especially not in the first 10 pp.!

If you can find a good group of peers to help you with feedback, you can save all that money. A writer's group in your area, a screenwriting class, or an online feedback group like on www.zoetrope.com can give you some of the same good feedback that you paid money for (which you could have spent on contest entry fees, postage for queries, Story XChange or whatever).

Marketing is all about figuring out who is most likely to be interested in your product. Research production companies on the net (like through Hollywood Creative Directory online, a good investment) and figure out who is making your kind of movies. Those are the people to send direct queries to. Learn how to write a great, pithy logline and an exciting synopsis -- find an ebuddy to swap these with if there's no one where you live.

Then send send send and sit back and wait wait wait (or write the next one).

Good luck to you.

Miriam

I had a very good experience with Craig Kellem at Hollywoodscript.com for $175, He did an in-depth analysis and we spent a good deal of time on the phone going over my script. He also sent me an audio tape that went almost page by page. I learned a lot in terms of the structure of the story and characters, and I consider the money well spent. He is also more than happy to take phone calls, and answers emails usually within an hour or two. Check out his site.

Has anyone done the Syd Field one on one? He has a pretty good price on it right now, for him I mean. I found his videotape very good in terms of keeping me organized when I was writing my first draft. I was wondering if you actually get Syd Fields or one of his assistants.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Thanks to everyone who gave me feedback on this topic. After much searching, research, and consideration, I've choosen to go with Craig Kellem at Hollywoodscript.com. His price seems very reasonable (meaning I will be able to eat this month without selling vital organs), and he has some solid credentials (listed in IMDB). I'll let everyone know how it goes in the future.

Bryan

Posting on storyXchange sounded like a terrific idea. I went to their site and filled in the appropriate information, got my credit card ready and then read the rules! Hello?? By agreeing to their terms, your story can be used by someone else--the exact story--and you dont get a red cent! What's up with that?! Why would anyone agree to this?

I have signed disclaimers before, but have never seen one that takes away ALL rights of the author.

I'd like to hear your opinion.

Thanks

Sue

Regading my last posting, I just want everyone to know that I contacted storyXchange and got a very detailed explanation about what all the fine print really said. It did NOT say what I thought it did! With that said...

Sorry storyXchange, I will be posting my script on your site shortly!!

Thanks, Sue

Just thought I'd add my $.02. I never pay for script consultation any more.

My best experience was when I found a reader in Hollywood who was written up in my college alumni magazine. I called her up and we just talked and then she offered to read my screenplay, Sex and Violence, and give me notes for free. She gave me detailed notes and I agreed with about 50%, which is a high percentage for me. I rewrote the script. Did it work? It was a semi-finalist at Monterey and elsewhere, but I've never been able to sell it. Still, I like the screenplay and her notes helped me see things I wasn't seeing.

The worst experience was paying $400 to the Writers Network to read my sci-fi adventure, The Amazing Adventure of Edward and Dr. Sprechtmachen. They sent me notes that stressed one major point -- the physics was wrong. They also mentioned that sci-fi comedies have a bad track record. I was pretty angry. I responded by saying 1) I have advanced degrees in physics from Cornell and Stanford and the science in my screenplay is at least as accurate as their understanding of physics, based on Star Trek and Star Wars, and 2) no one watches a movie and walks out saying, "I would have liked it but the physics was just wrong." Finally I explained that they had probably missed a few sci-fi comedies in the past few years, like all three "Back to the Future" movies, "Ghostbusters," both of Bill and Ted's adventures, "Men in Black," and lots of others. They never gave me any specific rewrite suggestions, just recommended that I drop it altogether. Later, that screenplay, without a rewrite, was a quarterfinalist at the New Century Writers Awards.

Bob,

I agree with your comments on the Physics of Screenplays. Sci-fi scripts must merely be plausible and consistent, not scientifically implementable with today's technology - or else it wouldn't be sci-fi.

Steve

By the way, my screenplay that got the physics wrong -- it just made Top Ten Finalist in the Nashville Screenwriting Competition. Ironically, it beat out my other screenplays which have gotten better feedback from readers. I guess it's all a little random.

-Bob