Message Board

There is a lot of cynicism out there. Many of us have been writing for years with little or no success. Many of us have, for the most part, sent queries out to people with no response. When/If we do get a response it’s a pass or “not what we’re looking for”. News from “insiders” is rarely optimistic. If you have contacts…good. If not, you’re screwed.

Well, I refuse to believe that. I’m not going to let the downside of this business interfere with the reason I sit down at my computer every night. I love to write!

The joy of creation. The feeling of writing “FADE OUT” at the bottom of the last page. I’m not saying I’m not looking for the big pay out, I am. That’s the ultimate goal. It’s not the reason I starting writing, and I won’t let it be the reason that I continue to write.

If you have talent and know your structure, then you’ll make it. If you don’t believe that, maybe this isn’t the career for you.

What’s that noise? The sound of me stepping down from my soapbox.

JD

JD....you certainly have the right perspective. Too many would-be writers seem to want to 'jump on the bandwagon', trying to play someone else's game. I firmly believe that sooner or later, the world will recognize a good writer. Box office numbers are good for the paycheck only...for some people, that is enough, ergo the proliferation of mimes, prostitutes and pornography on the internet. (Anything for money...)

Stephen King, highest paid 'author' in history says: "...I know my work is the 'Big Mack' and fries of literature..." (his words, exactly) What a tortured existence he must lead. I can only believe that there is never enough money for people like him. A worse life than that? To be chained to a job writing "Murder She Wrote" episodes, week after week after week...

I write my stories and self-publish them. At present, I have 4 pretty good novels on the market, and 1 completed manuscript, and 1 work in progress. I sell a few books every week, and I do not aspire to get rich, just listened to. The main reason that I self-publish is that I do not want some 'bozo' (who can't even get laid) to compare my writing to something that he finds exciting at the moment. I do, however, enjoy reading some serious criticisms regarding my work(s), but mostly from others who are aware of the trials and tribulations of creating good literature.

Mitch BTW...soap boxes are allowed.

[Looking left. Looking right.]

Stephen King is actually a very good writer. Give him a break.

Read Stephen King's "On Writing" if you think he's only in it for the money. The passion for the story was first. Maybe it's all BS, but not in my opinion.

Yes, I must agree about the Stephen King comments from others: I think he may be speaking in self-deprecating terms only. Stephen King is passionate about what he writes, and got into it for the love of his chosen field (horror fiction). Personally I think he has slipped over the years -- perhaps it's that "not hungry enough," that "I could s**t and they'd print it" attitude going to his head for so long -- but you shouldn't bag him for living a perceived "lowly existance."

Let's put it this way: if slaving over Murder She Wrote episodes is a terrible way to live -- what would you say about being an insurance paper-pusher? A gas-station attendant? A bank-industry drone? There's work, and then there's your life.

Stephen Pollan (I believe that's who it was: financial guru) said you should never seek *personal* satisfaction in your work -- what a radical thought! It took me a while to get it, but it does seem to be very true: work is money, your life outside work is where you can find fullfillment (sp?) Carries over perfectly to writing, because if you try to make a "success" out of it all right away, you are headed for heartache. Stick with the joy; soon, if you're lucky, the money/success will follow. And if it doesn't, it doesn't matter -- your priorities in the right order will ensure you stay "satisfied." Love what you are doing, put energy into maintaining that love and happiness, and screw everything else.

It takes work -- but then, it takes work to maintain a flat stomach. Or a relationship. Or a long life.

Thus spake Zarathustra.

Craig

S. King needs no break from the likes of me...he is doing what he wants to do, and that is to keep trying to write that ONE good, self-satisfying novel. You must have missed the very rare interview with him...he knows that he is not accepted by the literati, going so far as to say that he is thought of as "probably a hack..." Yes, he is VERY good at what he does, but how many times can he pull a surprise 'miracle' out of his ass to come up with an ending before someone catches on?? S. King will be remembered along with Doyle, Christie and whomever that woman is that writes and sells those millions of god-awful, trailer-park-trash love/romance novels. As for looking left and right, don't forget to look ahead... Mitch

Looking ahead is a given. I wouldn't want to be redundant.

As for Stephen King going downhill, don't you think it might have had something to do with the auto accident that nearly killed him? Maybe he has a different view about what activities he cares to invest his time on?

Heck, after Craig and I start having children, I'll be too engrossed on being a mother to care about writing....

Ugh, the thought makes me want to vomit.

The interview that I watched was done before the accident. I have nothing against S. King...I don't like the style or genre, but he is one hard working son of a bitch. My piont is that there are other ways to be a successful writer. Trying to emulate a best-selling author will stymie even a good writer.

Believe me, King is much harder on himself than I could ever be. Mitch

Some guy named William Goldman once said that King could write whatever he wants, he's that good.

He wouldn't sell so many books if he wasn't a good writer.

If selling books made one a good writer, then I guess I'm wrong about that horrible, tasteless woman that sells all those low-brow, trashy romance paperback novels...not to mention Jimmy Buffet...

BTW...selling hamburgers does NOT make McDonalds a good restaurant...

Selling lots of hamburgers does make McDonald's a good restaurant. There are many definitions of good. If you think you know the "correct" one... well you don't. Only intellectual snobs and fudamentalists think they know the one right answer.

Ashley,

I ain't exactly tripping the light fantastic on that idea either.

Craig

"If you think you know the "correct" one... well you don't. Only intellectual snobs and fudamentalists think they know the one right answer."

Bob -- are we to assume this is the correct answer?...

Craig

Ashley...Like you, I probably am, fundamentally, an intellectual snob...meaning that I don't converse with people not literate to the immediate topic.

The 'right' answer to any disagreement is relative...McDonalds is a good restaurant to a lot of people, but that fact does not make it good to me. The thousands that bought a good (there's that word again) dose of botulism or ptomaine from McDonalds most likely don't think it's a good reataurant, either. To me, a restaurant has to have clean, safe food, courteous service, concern for customers and staff, etc., etc., etc. McDonalds is, at best, a slop-chute. That is the correct/right answer for me and anyone else who expects quality from the food service industry.

As you can see, 'good' depends on personal tastes, beauty being in the eye of the beholder. By reading your 'bio', I knew beforehand, that you frequented fast-food places. However, that fact alone does not make McDonalds a good restaurant to the majority of diners.

Mitch

I agree. Anyone with any sense would know that Burger King is far superior. As my kids will tell you, they have better chicken nuggets, and THEY are the ones with the LORD OF THE RINGS toys! Frodo rules!

Miriam

Mitch,

For a generally accepted definition of "quality," read "Quality is Free" by Philip Crosby. Or anything by Walter K. Deming or Peter Drucker. I'm sure you know more than they do, but maybe they could use your advice.

By the way, sorry to hear you got botulism and ptomaine poisoning at McDonald's. I hope you've recovered.

-Bob

Craig,

Yup!

-Bob

Hi, fast food lover-writers:

The strongest animals in the world are vegetarians!

GG

Mitch,

How could you tell from Ashley's "bio" that she frequents fast-food places?

BTW, the comma goes inside the quotation marks. Example -- I read "Towering Genius," your short, self-published autobiography.

Terry

I'm not an intellectual snob. And I hate Mickey D's. I think Mitch is getting people confused.

Here's a helpful hint, Mitch: Copy and paste onto Word, those posts that you wish to respond to. Then, type your response on Word, which, of course, you will then copy and paste in the Reply Box.

Sorry, Ashley...I keep getting you and that Craig guy mixed up...I don't use Word for the board, because I'm too lazy and it's just toooo much to think about. I usually don't get stoned before brunch, but today was a special day, ergo the confusion.

Bob...I've had neither botulism, nor ptomaine from McDonalds. I simply do not patronize those places. If Walt and Pete need my advice, I'm sure they'll call...

Terry...are you referring to my use of 'bio'? Those aren't quotation marks. I use the apostrophe in that manner to italicize/emphasize certain words that have a 'cliche' quality...I've seen it used like that somewhere...I swear that I have. It's a hard habit to break. As far as the quotation mark thing, I know that you are correct...I just think it's silly and non-common sensical(?) and I wish they'd change it.(damnIwishthisboardhadspellcheck)

Terry cont: The 'bio' states that she has a bit of sloth. Being a victim of the laze myself, I am sure I recognized a wanton desire to avoid cooking and cleaning. Perhaps I am mistaken...I've never been mistaken before, but with the years creeping up so fast, who knows??

Bob...I am led to believe that you and I are the only snobs on this board...maybe we're a cult...

I want to share these 2 humorous 'definitions' that I heard today:

>1-Agnostic/Dyslexic Insomniac -- someone who lies awake at night wondering if there really is a dog.

>2-Yankee -- a 'quickie', solo

I realize that neither is 'cutting edge' humor, but still funny...

Mitch

Why am I "that Craig guy" instead of just "Craig"?

And how could you possibly confuse ME with Ashley?!? I mean, with one you've got rugged, rough-hewn jawline; sinewy muscles; a rich robust voice, with a deep hearty laugh; and a full, firm package.

--And then you've got me.

Craig

:-)

My mistake, I was looking for a message board that pertained to screenwriting. Maybe they are discussing it on the cynics board.

Sean

Oh for f**k's sake-- alright, Sean, we'll talk screenwriting.

Use two brads in three hole punch, no double-sided. Write very well. Try hard, month after month, year after year, to get your big break. Never give up.

What else do you want to know?

Craig

Sorry, Craig...all I could see (in my feeble mind) was your silhouette, being smothered under the weight of unrequited love and devotion of a darker figure...and I thought: "...that poor guy..."

Mitch

BTW...how do I find the cynic's board? Am I missing something??

Mitch,

?

"Unrequited love"? Yes, a bit too much of that lately....

Craig

Craig,

Thought you would understand sarcasm. Step away from the ledge, sir, we are here to help you.