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making films--such as Randy Roberts and D.G., and PJ McIlvane having a script turned into a film than I am when I see headlines such as "Film School Graduate's first script sold for Six Figures." I'm happy for anyone who has a success, but when a 21-year old makes a sale with his first script, it makes me wonder if I have any talent at all. I guess I'll quit writing screenplays when the headlines read, "One Month Old Child Sells Script for Six Figures."

Actually, I saw a young girl who couldn't have been more that 10 or 11 pitching at the last pitch session I attended. I didn't hear if she got any script requests!

But don't be discouraged -- I got my first option (for real, live money) right after my 48th birthday.

Headlines like that both amaze me, discourage, and motivate me at the same time.

At first I'm amazed that someone that young can have the knowledge, life experience, and talent to write a sellable script.

Then I get a little discourage thinking "What does this guy have that I don't? Does he have more talent then me? And if so, will I ever get to that level? I'm ten years older than that now, how long is it gonna take?"

Then, once I get passed all that, I get motivated. I remind myself about my family, friends, manager, other writers, and readers who have read my work and have told me I have talent and it's just a matter of time and the right concept before I kick the door down.

I think we all go through self doubt at one time or another and ask ourselves "What am I doing? Is it worth it? Am I ever going to make it?" It's those of us who answer "yes" it's worth it that have the drive and passion to make it in this industry that is based on so many catch-22's

I also believe that the incredible amount of time and effort we spend trying to make it will help us appreciate the fruits of our labors once we have "made it". I know it's a cliche, but things are better if they weren't given to you; it means so much more once you've earned them. Look at any celebrity/public figure who was born into money or who became a millionaire over night or at a young age. The Kennedy's, Tatumn O'Neil, MC Hammer, Corey Haim; the list is endless. Their lives are so fucked up, I wouldn't trade with any of them.

That guy who sold his first script out of college will probably live the good life for a few years. He'll blow his money on fast cars, coke, pornstars, and having Creed play his birthday party. Then in a few years, he'll be left with nothing. I know, because that is exactly what I would have done ten years ago if I had sold a script at a young age.

So hang in there everyone. If you have any kind of talent, and a good amount of perseverance. You'll make it.

Just remember who it was that gave you this great pep talk when make it. :)

Bryan,

I agree with your sentiments. But I would advise against the "It's probably bad this happened to him because...." syndrome: it only sets up more disappointment when it doesn't happen, it damages other's good fortune/your own karma, and it ignores simple reality.

Which is: life is inherently, absurdly, irrevocably, and totally unfair. That's just the way it is.

This is how you should probably comfort yourself: tell yourself that -- believe me -- there is a LOT more to whatever the story is about this sale, than we get. If you were to get the whole story, it wold make logical sense why s/he had this incredible stroke of "good luck." And learning that, you could replicate it -- or trump it.

Don't disparage from afar; accept that it's all not fair, and that the story is NEVER what it at first appears to be.

If you don't mind me telling you ANYTHING, that is. Which I guess, is rather rude, when I think about it... never stopped me before though.... :-)

Craig

When I started writing again two years ago, I decided that I was going to write what Hollywood would sell and buy.

I do write for the enjoyment and fulfillment that it gives me but be realistic. If you are writing non-commercial genres and story lines, you better get some money to make it yourself.(The Independent World).

I have spent hours and hours researching what are the trends and future trends of what people are going to want to see. It's not easy. I read a lot of articles and watch television, believe it or not, to find out what is coming. Star TV and The Independent Film Channel are great resources.

I get encouraged when I read and hear about our friends having success but get discouraged when you hear about studio employees getting deals from their employers for big bucks and usually the stories are crap.

Did you know that if you are an actor that you are also a screenwriter and director. It's true!

I have close to 100 story loglines and synopses and if I actually went through them, 90 of them would be commercial and my favourites would be the ones that I will make when I get the money from the sales of the other 90. Actually, I just want one, I'm not greedy.

I think I am starting to see some movement in the old Hollywood ways. The past two weeks have been very interesting as to whom is looking for scripts.

Steve

Ah, yes, the days of fast cars, . . . just joking.

I don't mind reading about some guy in his 20's who just graduated from film school and sold his first script to his boss (I don't know if these are the specifics but it seems to be for most of the ones I've read).

He/she did spend the 4 years full-time on the specific degree and get the directly-related work experience. For most of us it's a hobby. Even though we spend a lot of time on it, it's still not full time. I've spent 10 years on this, but I can honestly say it was always a hobby and I didn't get serious about the possiblity of selling something until 2 years ago when I won some cash and had to think about taxes.

If you spent 4 years getting a degree in something you would expect to get a job in that career (okay, not one paying so much, but still).

Obviously the intensity of the film school must focus a writer to his/her craft. I know UCLA has an online school.

Maybe another factor might be the connections that allow a new writer to have his/her script read at an intermediate level, bypassing the lower level reader or finding an opportunity to get read not available to the public. Not every film student gets a 6 figure sale. I suspect the stars line up just right for these chosen few.

R. Sparks,

I appreciate the comment that you consider my "film" (only in the can at this time) a success. I have a little different take on that. I consider that my accomplishment thus far is only a part of the "process" that gets to becoming a success. I also agree with the quote "succes is a journey", so in that aspect, my journey continues. I got tired of saying "I'm a Writer/Director", having never got anything on film. There a lot of those in L.A., and I didn't want to be a member of that club anymore.

I hear so many filmmaker "wannabe's" who skip the steps necessary to making a good film. They don't need a good script, or even A script at all. They don't need an experienced crew, just another wannabe who can hold the boom mike (pulled off the camera), and craft services is cold coffee and candy bars. All shots are handheld digital video cam, and "don't need lighting". Their actors are people who are also "actor wannabe's". I didn't skip the steps to learn how to do a good film, including how to structure a good story and hire good actors. I worked hard in my architectural career and saved my money, and when I finally had enough funds, spent ALL of it on the production costs.

As far as the other comments like Bryan's about young writers, I concur. They do not have enough experiences in life to write anything interesting for the masses, but Hollywood only hires them to write fluff for teens who are living in the "now" of their youth and not real stories about the value of being young. The Hollywood crowd who buys these "Adam Sandler" trash scripts pander only to the lowest common denominator of the teens who will pay to go see this crap more than once. The "target market profile" Hollywood craves has mutated from "male, 16-20" into "male, 16-20, who will pay for sitting in the same seat for the same movie more than once".

This is no reason for us, as writers, to change our ideas to fit their marketing plan. Granted we are working against not being a part of that funding for those type of films, but if we create good stories that many "I used to go to movies until they quit making ones I liked to see" movie "used to goers" can watch, maybe they will come back to the thaters and sit in the seats and say "they do make movies like they used to".

Pretty naive, huh? Or...?

Craig,

What I posted about the guy blowing all his money was not meant as a "wish" against the person who sells his first script right out of college. It's just a very probable outcome based on my own feelings about what I would have done at that age and situation; and based on what happens to so many young people when they come into a large sum of money.

Of course I could be wrong. I hope the guy has a good head on his shoulders and goes down the right path. Hopefully his first sale doesn't go to his head, inflating his ego. Hopefully he'll have a long, fruitful career in Hollywood. I know I'll be there some day with him.

And Randy,

Thanks for the support brother.

I just wanted to respond to Steven Calderwood's post about trying to predict trends.

DON'T. I believe it's pointless and a waste of time. And that's the same thing people in the business have told me.

Let's say the latest trend is say "pot bellied pigs as pets". By the time this information gets to you, the trend has usually peaked. And by the time you write a script on "pot bellied pigs as pets", sell it, get it made into a movie and get it released - chances are no one is gonna give a flip about "pot-bellied pigs as pets" anymore.

Your time would be better spent by writing a story you feel passionate about. Because that's when you will produce your best work. And it will come across to everyone who reads it.

You can't predict what people are gonna want to read/see. Because that varies from person to person. Each production company, manager, agent have very individual, specific tastes. You're not going to come up with a magic formula that will guarantee a sale. It's combination of talent, persistance, connections and a whole lotta luck.

Faith

Faith- I guess your name must help you.

If the trend now is to write Valentine movies then I would not be writng about that. If the trend now is to write about pot bellied pigs then guess what.

I don't know who you are talking to but those I have had the pleasure of talking to say do the reseach, watch the trends and see Who's Buying What! Gee where have I heard that before.

What if your passionate about Pot Bellied Pigs. I will write the Academy Award winner but oh no there are 5 other Pot Bellied Pig movies coming out.

Oh well, I was passionate about it so that's fine. Bullshit, you failed as a writer. If you want to make a living at this craft, I do and will, then you better listen to people like Brooklyn Weaver, Warren Zide, Craig Perry and almost any Agent, Manager or Prodcos looking for a money maker.

You can be passionate about your writing as I am but do the research and look at the trends, past, present and future.

Sometimes to have to have Faith, to be a success.

Be encouraged and be practical, listen to those who are making big bux in Hollywood.

Steve Calderwood

Since there are no guarantees in this business, whether you write a "trendy" movie or not, I only spend time writing what fascinates me. Writing is too difficult and time-consuming for me to spend it writing something I don't love. If writing to the trends floats your boat and gets you the success you want, more power to you. My second screenplay is very off-beat, not at all high concept, and many of my friends who read it didn't like it, but I've optioned it. I was told that it was original. So, as William Goldman says, nobody knows anything. Including me.

Miriam

The argument is all wrong:

A story about pot-bellied pigs is one thing.

A story about true-romance is another. Or a great comedy. Or a fascinating mystery.

It's all in how you interpret "trend."

Here's one thing you sure DON'T want to do: buck all trends. Don't go writing that sympathetic Osama piece -- you may not get anywhere with that one....

Craig

Well, here's the problem - especially for those of us who haven't been at it that long, anyway - what we write needs to come across as genuine, the characters need to come to life, and that's easier if we draw on our own experiences, including the stuff buried in the inner recesses of our own psyches. So the stories we craft may come across as quirky or, if they're done well enough and we're very lucky, maybe they'll strike some folks as original, unique visions informed by the happiest or darkest parts of our own lives.

Note to self:

Dump the sympathetic Osama script.

Re-work "original" valentine/relationship with pot bellied pig script.

Lots of thoughts here -- firstly, the Moviebytes followers who live outside of Los Angeles are at a serious disadvantage. If these non-LA writers don't sell, I don't think they should feel too badly about their writing and their efforts. I lived on the east coast, and now I've lived in LA for two years, and it makes a HUGE difference. Of course, you always hear stories about people who make it outside of LA, but by and large, your odds are greatly increased if you reside in LA. I understand that people have different reasons for living where they do -- family, spouse, job, etc., but there comes a point where you have to ask yourself, "Is it worth it for me to move to LA?" If not, then so be it, but keep in mind that your efforts at selling will be severely handicapped -- so don't be surprised or feel angry, or sad, or whatever. For me, I asked myself that same question, and I decided to drive, by myself, with a packed car, from Maryland to Los Angeles and I've never looked back. I may not sell anything, but it won't be because I didn't move to LA to increase my chances.

Secondly, I don't really begrudge the people who sell a script, right out of or while attending a top-notch film school. They did spend money and time attending and learning their craft at a well-respected film school. And by going to that well-respected film school, they put themselves in a position to meet the right people and get their scripts bought. So, in my mind, they did what they had to do.

Thirdly, I think that it is entirely possible that a young person of 18 or so has at least one story to tell. Maybe young people don't have a lot of life experience, but they easily could have one story -- something very autobiographical. Even that 11 year old someone mentioned, could have a great story -- maybe she has wacky divorced parents, who do weird things to their kids, and then decide to start a home delivery service of drugs to desperate teenagers who want them, and... -- you get the picture. Now, whether, this 11 year old or even an 18 year old can execute the script, well, that's what I would have serious questions about.

Fourthly, the question of "Following the trends vs. Writing something original" has been something I have mulled over for a while. Most people who gamble on sporting events such as football games, basketball games, etc... are not very good at it. Most people lose money more times than they win over the long haul. However, there are a select few people who are good at it -- many of them being professional gamblers. I think it's the same way with looking for trends in Hollywood. Most of us couldn't predict accurately when a trend was going to break and / or fade out. However, I think there are a select few who can. And those that can, well, they have an advantage. Now, just like with sports gambling, people who know the business, inside and out and are privy to all sorts of inside information, these people are better informed and it could help them spot the trends. I don't think there is anything wrong with writing toward a trend. And for those of you who are "purists" who think that that is "selling out" and not writing "from the heart" let me tell you this. If a writer makes a lot of money writing something commercial and now has the time to quit his day job so he can write FULL-TIME something that he's really passionate about, that sounds good to me. Compare the aformentioned scenario with the so-called hardcore "artist / purist" who scrambles to make a living and can only write the scripts he's passionate about on a PART-TIME basis. Either way is fine, but I get pissed when people thumb their noses at people who write something commercial in the first scenario.

Also, if you write scripts that are no longer fashionable or "in" it's not the end of the world. Most genres come back eventually. So, if you have the patience, next time that genre is "in" you just submit that script. So even if you miss the trend, you will probably get a second chance.

Originality -- It's great that originality is still wanted by some buyers, however originality is extremely subjective and it's really about what people can comprehend -- intellectually, emotionally, morally, religiously, etc. Some people think inside such a small "box" that if you present them something that is outside the "box" they won't understand it and / or accept it. One potential buyer might think something is creative and "original" while another buyer might think the same idea is stupid and bizarre. Being an Asian-American, I sometimes feel I have to "mainstream" my thinking / writing in my screenplays. I have a lot of very different viewpoints on life, and I realize that most people don't get it and / or accept it. Just to give you an example. In China and Korea, it's not uncommon to eat dog. In America, most people consider that disgusting. Now, if someone tells me they are a vegetarian and they don't eat any animals, I can respect that. It makes sense -- they don't like the killing of animals. But I've had debates with people about why is it okay to eat cow or deer, but not okay to eat cat or dog. One response, I got was that cats and dogs are pets and they are like family members. Another response was that cats are cute and cows are ugly. So, I said, "what is this, like animal racism or something? It's okay to eat a cow, but it's not okay to eat a dog." And to the other person, "So it's okay to discriminate against the ugly animals, and we should favor the pretty animals?" To me, people who willingly eat hamburgers, hot dogs, steak, etc., but yet think eating dog is disgusting / wrong are completely illogical. Meat is meat. And if it tasted bad, that would be one thing, but there's a reason why the phrase "tastes like chicken" was coined. And no one has ever used that argument on me (most likely because they never tried dog) But time and time again, normal people who eat meat, seem horrified when I say I would eat dog. (I haven't had it yet, but I am willing to try it.) This is just one example of where my logic is different from the mainstream. And my point is, that if you know that you are really, really different, you may want to reign it in a little bit. Conversely, if you know that you are pretty conservative, then hey, you can basically let yourself go.

Whew, I wrote a helluva lot here and I thank you all for bearing with me.

According to Vincent & Jules, here's why most people in our culture don't eat dog:

VINCENT Thanks a bunch. (to Jules, who's nursing his coffee) Want a sausage?

JULES Naw, I don't eat pork. VINCENT Are you Jewish? JULES I ain't Jewish man, I just don't dig on swine. VINCENT Why not?

JULES They're filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals. VINCENT Sausages taste good. Pork chops taste good.

JULES A sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie. I'll never know 'cause even if it did, I wouldn't eat thefilthy motherfucker. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That's a filthy animal. I don't wanna eat nothin' that ain't got enough sense to disregard its own feces. VINCENT How about dogs? Dogs eat their own feces.

JULES I don't eat dog either. VINCENT Yes, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?

JULES I wouldn't go so far as to call a dog filthy, but they're definitely dirty. But a dog's got personality. And personality goes a long way. VINCENT So by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he's cease to be a filthy animal?

JULES We'd have to be talkin' 'bout one motherfuckin' charmin' pig. It'd have to be the Cary Grant of pigs.

Sometimes sales have to do with talent. Sometimes it's nothing more than someone having a good connection or sending the right query letter to the right person at the right time. Other time, it's a combination. As I was once told by a WGA writer when I asked a mentor question on their website, "bad scripts get made, too." We all know that.

Fact, is, unless we've read the dudes' script, then we don't know if it's great or not. Even, then some of us may like it and some may not. I don't worry about what others are selling or not selling. I just focus on my writing and my own career. Otherwise, I would have gone nuts long ago. Actually, I am nut, but don't tell anybody! Shhhhh.

Write well, format well and write because you love it. And then send stuff out and let the chips fall where they may and remember, if you're not enough without having sold a screenplay, you'll never be enough with it. ;.)

The Cosmetic Lady

I tend to believe the same thing. It would be pretty hard to be tossing a frisbee to Fluffy one minute, and then sticking a skewer through him the next. Dogs are more intelligent and personable then cows, chickens, ducks, lamb, and most of the other animals we carnivores consider okay to consume, or "dig on" as Jules puts it.

Steve,

I do read the "Who's Buying What" section. Not to try to figure out what the trends are. But to see what each company is individually interested in at the moment, then to see if what I have would be their cup of tea. If that's how you define "trend", then we are in agreement.

But I still maintain, if everyone is buying a certain type of script NOW, there's a good chance that if you try to write a script to match that, by the time it gets out there it will probably be too late.

On the other hand, if you happened to have a script NOW, that fits into what seems to be hot NOW. Go for it!

But don't go thinking that all big producers are infallable. Like someone said earlier, some people are really good at figuring out the pulse of the nation, the youth, etc... It's a rare and beautiful thing. Most aren't.

Let's take THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS for example. EVERYONE in the industry was SHOCKED by how well it did. "Who knew that kids would be really into street racing?" The kids on the street knew, and the person who wrote the script knew. Probably because he was extremely familiar with the scene and the culture.

Now that's another point. If you now about or are involved in a unique cultural phenomenon. An undergroud thing that is very popular but just hasn't hit the mainstream. Write a story about it. For example, fight clubs, street racing, the wacky world of dog shows, rave culture, etc...If you understand it. Then you might have a chance of catching lightening in a bottle.

But after all is said and done. Do what you feel you think is right. I was just giving you my opinion. Who knows who is right or wrong. Maybe both. Maybe neither. I'm just gonna do what I feel is right, for me.

Faith

And as for who I've been talking to in the business. I'm going by what I learned from the speakers who came to my UCLA screenwriting program. Professional agents from agencies like Gersh and William Morris, producers, writers/directors like Alexander Payne and David Koepp.

There is no magic formula for success.

Faith:

I agree that someone writing a script to follow a trend has a very good chance of being left out in the cold. However, this also depends on how fast you write. If you can bang out a quality script in one week, you might have a better chance with the trend that someone who would require six months.

Also, those "gifted" few who can spot the trend EARLY could then become the first or second to write a script in that hot topic. And I agree with what you said about THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS and about trends that not well-known. Obviously, someone who knows about those types of trends has an advantage.

Bryan:

That's a new one for me -- not eating dog because he's intelligent. Interesting. Now I have examples where people discriminate against certain animals because they are ugly, stupid, and lack personality. (I'm just having fun here, I don't mean anything confrontational by it.) :)

How about having a stack of scripts based on the most popular trends stacked on a shelf ready to submit? That way you've covered most saleable trends bases. I agree we must write would we like and are passionate about. There's a buyer, somewhere.

Grover

There have been many, many times where I've wanted to give up, but writing to me is like breathing. I almost wish I didn't have to "write to live", so I could be more "normal." Guess it's a handicap I'll just have to live with.

I mean no disrespect to you Faith or the way that anyone else does what they do.

I do follow trends and I really research what all the Prodcos and Indies are looking for. If you go back 2 or three years, you will see what was written and purchased and what is now in production and release.

If you look at all this you will see where Hollywood is, what it is up to and where it is going. As I said before, if your passionate about writing about Valentines, I would wait a few years due to the fact that 3 were just sold in the past couple of months.

Anyways, It is working great for me so this is what I do. I don't push success on anyone.

Steve

Steven Lee

We have a Golden Lab--he's half Labrador and half Golden Retriever. His name is Buddy and he's three years old. He's intelligent, playful, has a sweet disposition, and is very loving. When I come home from work, he's so happy to see, I'm almost afraid he's going to have a heart attack. We've had him for about a year. Prior to Buddy, we had no intentions of getting a dog. We really didn't even care for dogs--they crap in the yard, shed, and bark, etc. This is all the negative stuff that non-owners see. Buddy belonged to our neighbor and was chained up in the guy's backyard and almost totally ignored. My wife and I would go over and pet him, take him out for walks, and even feed him (his owner would forget that). Frequently, we would check on Buddy by looking out a side window. Most of the time, we'd see Buddy sitting there and staring at the window, just waiting for one of us to appear in the window. One day the guy said that he was moving and asked us if we wanted Buddy. We said yes and have been very glad we did. My thinking now is this: If you look at a dog and see it as a potential meal, you're ignoring the love, intelligence, companionship, and fun that the dog can offer you as a companion. So if you kill the dog and eat it, you get a meal and nothing more--and thus you aren't deserving of anything greater. Call it a cultural bias if you like, but that's the way I feel.

Anyone stupid enough to be a cow deserves to be eaten.

To date, I've encountered only one (a dairy cow) that possessed the spark of life in her eyes.

Dogs and cats, however, have someone home in there.

So, you can put this in your survey results Steve L.: If the animal is just physical matter (like a chair), I'd probably eat it, unless it's so exotic that I'd not have the opportunity to encounter such an animal and learn firsthand what the skinny is (like shark meat).

I'd like tocontribute, just as long as I don't have to deal with the eating dog stuff.

Last year I went to Austin for my cousin's wedding. We stayed downtown in a nice hotel on Congress St. From 11:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m., the street racers raced up and down between the lights and kept all of us awake due to the noise. I was really pissed at the stupidity of the teenagers who had no regard for anyone else's safety or peace and quiet.

Too bad I didn't recognize this situation as a trend that these teenageers were going through, and that maybe, just maybe, there was a great opportunity for research into a script the teenagers would respond to and show up at the movies.

Must have been sleep deprivation.

Methinks you might be anthropomorphizing, Ashley.

BTW: If your precious cat, say, was to expand in size about 20 times, it would have no compunction about consuming you. That is, after it playfully snapped every last one of your limbs tossing you around the joint, smashing your innards into a ripe jelly, and finally decapitating you with relish.

Craig

I have a slightly different take on the issue of following trends.

First, there may be a difference between genre trends and topic trends. I think it is possible to catch the wave in a genre trend. Some genre trends run for many years, if the market they serve is firmly established. For instance, the fact that action movies tend to export well means more $ for producers and maintains the genre's potential. Teen sex comedies are a recently energized genre that will run out of steam eventually, but not necessarily tomorrow.

On the other hand, you have topic trends, and there is no bandwagon to hop on here because a topic is much more narrowly focused / specific, and thus more quickly saturated. Valentines Day is a perfect example. Once a few V-Day stories have been bought, the market is saturated.

It's good to try to identify trends, but it takes time to write a great script and you may not have enough time. So I try to give myself more lead time by anticipating what will be the next trend, based on what I think may be the reaction to a current trend. For instance, if the market is saturated with teen sex comedies, what will teenagers want to see when they grow tired of that, or as an antidote to the that? SWIM FAN. See what I mean?

Finally, I agree that it's better to be passionate about what you write. But some writers are able to adopt more of an assignment approach and "discover" their passion within the topic. I am able to do that and it gives me more flexibility.

Craig,

ROTFLMAO regarding your cat comment. SOOO true. Just because they're cute and your pet, doesn't mean they won't kill and eat you if they had the chance.

I mean, look at pit bulls. Them MoFo's deserved to be eaten!

Faith

There's only one thing that bums me out with the spec sales and that's the number of books being made into movies. It looks to be around 20% now, it's climbed quite a bit in the last year. That's not good for any of us that write original material. Time to look into the rights of a few choice books I'd love to script. No time like the present for something new eh?

As for the genre trends, each company has it's own idea of what this is. I'd rather start my own trend and see how many jump on the bandwagon. That'll tell you if you have a hot number or not.

Why trail behind the wagon when you can drive it?

Have a good one.

Orlanda

I like the way you think, Orlanda!

Miriam

Craig,

You missed out on a good documentary about cats on PBS. The actress from The Birds (I forget her name) has a sanctuary for exotic cats, in California. She did address that although tamed lions, tigers, etc. are to be treated with care, for those that are close to them, it is an honor to be accepted by the feline.

I wonder, though, how you could possibly know what I know, if you've never looked through my eyes? Your evaluation of my conclusion perplexes me. It's like me stating, with authority, your exact thoughts and feelings when you first learned of the WTC attack, or what you felt the first time you ever kissed a girl.

So, you lack the ability to perceive spiritual energy. Assuredly, you are not in a position to state that I am incapable of doing so.

P.S. - Just because you see a human, doesn't mean someone's home in there. I think it's pretty arrogant of you to assign human traits to that which is spiritual.

Tippi Hedren.

Melanie Griffith's mom.

Ashley,

Actually, I do see your points, and understand where you were coming from now. I can't really disagree!

I did qualify them with my "methinks," btw.

There is still the issue of the "cow" with no "spiritual interior," however. How do you know *you* can't see *its* inner "energy"?

Seriously. How do you know? What makes one person qualified to see to the spirit, and others not?

And if I don't see something behind the eyes of a cat -- does that mean I am spiritually dead inside? Or if I see it in a cow but not a cat, what then?

Do you see that spirituality in a fly? If you don't -- well, George Harrison, to take one individual, would have thought YOU were spiritually "imperceptive" and "unlearned."

Do you see where we're going with all this?....

Craig

I know where I'm headed...straight to the grill. Hmmm. Looks like filet mignon.

Think I'll have a glass of merlot (spiritual color of a wonderful grape from Sonoma County) and enjoy myself.

My cat just sits there and wonder what I'm doing to "her" dinner.

The nerve. ;)>

(like my new goatee?)

Randy

<< As far as the other comments like Bryan's about young writers, I concur. They do not have enough experiences in life to write anything interesting >>

Randy, Randy, Randy,

You made me think of a former writing student of mine (OSU screenwriting seminars). He turned 16 during the workshop, and had a lot of baggage. The kid was one of those military kids who has to move around all the time. He said his life was a yo-yo, spinning from popularity to getting the crap beat out of him. He'd ace at school, only to get caught smoking weed at another school. He had many labels from the education system, his police record and others: slacker, brilliant, special needs, ADD, regular student, thief, umarried father, honor roll, HIV-positive, etc.

At 16 he had a lot of stories to tell. Hopefully, he's more settled now. At the time I met him he seemed world-weary and ready to lighten the load -- and writing was a therapeutic tool. I was of the same opinion as most of the adult ("seasoned") writers on this board. I changed my tune. A young life can pack a lot of horror, a lot of missteps, and a lot of triumphs. They do have incredible stories to tell. They might not have the technical skills or craft down, but like the rest of us, they can book up a book or go to a class to learn the tricks.

May I bring in a few words about dogs? Thanks. I will do it. An experienced dog trainer/groomer of twenty years experience believes that there are four dog breeds/species, that should be exterminated because of their danger to the owners and the public. Can you guess which ones he mentioned? Times up. Rottweiler, Doberman, Pit Bull and "oh,shoot. I forget the fourth." He's a fantastic, curing nutritionist, now. He gets results unavailable to the drug controlled MDs. I'll have to call him. Is there a story here?

Grover

Poodle.

This is for you Miriam. A little something my husband found for me.

DO NOT GO WHERE THE PATH MAY LEAD, GO INSTEAD WHERE THERE IS NO PATH AND LEAVE A TRAIL.

(Ralph Waldo Emerson - American Philosopher)

And people wonder why I write Kung Fu.

It's stuck to my monitor along with -

A WOMAN WITH LOVE IN HER HEART AND A BRAIN IN HER HEAD IS WELL-ARMED.

(no author)

Have a good one.

Orlanda

Orlanda,

If you are well versed in the martial arts (Kung Fu in particular) could you email me please? Check my profile for email address.

Miriam

I hear LSD does wacky things to a person's mind. I'm grateful a relative of mine had the good sense to warn me about it.

I'm pretty satisfied with my conclusion about the cow thing. I'm comfortable with the idea that if the cow's spiritual energy is so low as to go undetected with my level of sensitivity, then there isn't too much there to warrant my living off of veggies and tofu.

You want to go really far with the argument, then there's energy in plants, too. Just not enough for me to feel bad about chopping up a carrot, steaming it, smothering it with butter and salt, and happily scarfing it down. I'll bet the carrot doesn't even know what the hell's going on.

I don't think the term "qualified" is appropriate. A "sensitive" individual does not earn a degree in that field. Sensing and acknowledging a perception is something innately present in all of us. Blame it on mental baggage, if you haven't tapped into it. Horrible things can happen in the womb.

I've never perceived spiritual energy in a fly. I've never hesitated in squashing the germ-bearing nuisance.

The best way I can describe it, Craig, is you've got the Genetic Entity (the body) and you've got the Spiritual Entity (the soul). You can have one exist without the other. When you have both together (like the majority of human beings), you have something that I would not feel comfortable eating.

Randy,

Don't tell me you've gone goatee.

I hate goatees.

Orlando,

Interesting, your quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson. I had a great calendar about 20 years ago that had a lot of wonderful quotes, and one impressed me so much I had ten copies made and, of course, used the authors name at the bottom of it to give credit. It was:

" I will not follow where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail". Muriel Strade

I tried for several years to track down who this Muriel Strade was, and could not find anything else penned by her. Do you have the book where Emerson's quote is written? I'd love to solve this particular question once and for all. Maybe there is no Muriel Strade, and the calendar maker misquoted Emerson.

The quote is my favorite, and I have used it as a signature many times on another couple of bb's, but always giving MS the credit. Maybe I need to correct my quote.

Weird, huh?

Deb,

I made you think of a 16 year old? Wow, what a great pick-up line for a man my age. Sigh...if only you had meant it that way.

Ashley,

Not to worry. The only goatee is on the little > above. They don't look good on me either.

Orlanda,

My misspell. My apology. Looking for that second cup of coffee to kick in.

Randy

Whew. That's a relief.

I am housesitting for friends on their way to the CARIBIAN (SP?)who just happen to have a pot bellied pig (Petunia) and two Australian Shepards and two cats.

Just making a committment to NOT eat any of them this week.

However, I am considering shaving some of my full beard off into a goatee.

By the way, next door to where I am staying is a place called The Gentle Barn. A rescue place for injured animals.

Could anyone eat an injured cow?

I may make her a character in my next script.

Carribean...

Johnny,

Could your cow just be an organ donor?

I prefer the Porterhouse organ, although the rib eye is a very nice organ, too.

How you doin'?

Sorry. Just watched the Sopranos.

Still love me? Maybe tolerate my sick sense of humor tonight?

I'm going to bed with a script read of someone else's writing. Good for the soul.

Randy

Hi Randy,

Sorry, I don't know where my husband found the quote. But I'll check into it.

It looks like one or the other might have been an after quote of the other. Interesting. Now I have to find out who wrote the quote first. LOL See what you started.

Have a good one.

Orlanda

Randy - Check out google.com. Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882). Muriel Strate has only one quote that I can find so far. The one you have. Can't find a book by her or if she is living, but she wasn't one of Ralph's peers.

www.ralph-waldo-emerson.com

There is a discussion board there.

WOW!!!!!

What a site. It's almost 5:30 am here, I'll do more digging tomorrow.

Night all.

Orlanda

What the hell are you doing up until 5:30 am?!?

If it's writing, Orlanda, damn! You're putting us all to shame.

And if it's... well, you're still putting me to shame. :-)

Craig

Craig,

Just fell out of my chair. Holy cow, that was funny.

Maybe because I can relate.

OOps...more info than I care to expand upon...

ROFLMAO...........

Sorry to correct you, Randy, but since you were correcting, it's "Caribbean" not "Carribean."

Miriam

Craig and Randy

LOL

Well that woke me up. I'm still chuckling.

Seriously, I'm a night owl. My hubby teases me about being on Hollywood time. They're 4 hours earlier than here.

As for the other...married for 19 years, son moved out a year ago, hmmmmm

:) I'm not telling.

Have a good one.

Orlanda

bbbb............you are soooo right.

I stand corrrrrected, again.

Nice thing about being corrrrrrrrected by Miriam. She is such a sweetheart, you really don't mind.

Somewhere south of Miami, and in Jimmy Buffett territory. Margaritas for the entire bar! Bet you my ex and I will someday wind up there drinking the margaritas and I'll be smoking the Cuban seed rolled cigars. ('nother thread to be told).

Craig - And I do write alot too.

Orlanda

Orlanda,

You said in an email that you and I were in the same time zone, but I'm only two hours ahead of Hollywood. What gives? I'm on Central time, what's yours?

Miriam

Miriam - So am I, I live right above you in Manitoba. About 4 hours away. Nope, more like 6. According to my time zone map, Manitoba and Minnesota are in the same zone.

Randy - I haven't found zilch on Muriel Strade, so it's probably a fair bet that Ralph wrote the quote first.

holy cow, amen

>;)

Orlanda,

Apologies to Ralph. Muriel, you lied to me.

I will still use the quote, but I will give the credit to RWE.

Randy

I'm amazed/dumbfounded how some of the people can write many a word in their postings. wuuf. I'm not to sure if I could do that, but you never know.

mf