Message Board

Hello, everyone.

I've been reading for a while but have never had a reason to post anything until now.

I received an E-mail from Mocean Pictures, Inc. wanting to see my script. I visited their web page and they seem legitimate, but who knows in this business.

They want me to sign a release form.

Does anyone know anything about this company?

Thank you in advance.

I'm not "in" the business so someone may have better information, but I was unable to come up with anything on Imdbpro or HCDonline.

Kim

Brent--

I'd be interested in knowing how you found out about them. They're a literary management/production company that I've never heard of--which doesn't mean anything.

I'm assuming they're just starting out. Their site says they just moved. Makes me wonder where they were at before--because they just moved to an ICKY part of Hollywood.

Terri

Terri-

I was using ScriptPIMP's agency listing to send out queries to whomever was accepting new writers.

The wrote back along with a few others.

I'd never heard of them, but that doesn't mean they weren't legit.

That fact that none of you so far have heard of them probably isn't a good sign, though.

They post quite a bit on donedeal MB. You might want to try there for more information.

There's a transcript from an August 2001 interview with Beth Dagitses from Mocean over on the Script Sales (Done Deal) site. The URL is:

http://www.scriptsales.com/DDChatLogMocean.html

In the interview, she says they had signed 10 writers, but had yet to sell anything. I haven't been able to find any indication that they've sold anything since then, but I guess they gotta be making money somehow...

Beth seems like a cool lady, and I believe the company is legit, if unproven.

But here's a funny little story: I queried them on a script a few months back and she responded politely but said they weren't interested in the material because the logline had the word "selfish" in it. Naturally I couldn't let that little nugget go by, so I asked her to explain what she was talking about and she said it's always hard to sell a screenplay where a main character starts out as "selfish" because people don't want to see that. I countered with a number of successful movies that had "selfish" characters who overcame their flaw, and we debated the point back and forth via e-mail for a while. She finally agreed to read the script (not sure if I convinced her of anything or she figured requestng the script would get me off her back -- probably the latter)

Anyway, a few weeks later she passed, but was very polite and told me to contact her when I have anything else. Take it for what it's worth...

Hmmm...Rich, thanks for the info.

I guess it couldn't hurt to send it to them. As a new writer, I'm not really in any position to turn down too many offers to read from agencies.

Have you guys found that the legit agencies ask for you to sign a release form?

Yes, legit companies ask for release forms. United Talent Agency had me sign a release form before they read my scripts.

Has anyone heard of ST Literary Agency?

I sent them a Query letter and they requested my script.

After reading it offered to rep me.

No reading fees but are requesting $129.00 for web site work.

What do you guys think? Legit or not. Thanks!

My first reaction is a resounding NO. If they have to rely on clients to give them $129, then they're probably not making much money actually repping scripts.

I had an offer for representation recently from a small agency that seemed on the up and up. The first thing that made me wary was that they're not from California. But the letter they sent sounded professional and went on and on about how they were confident in this script and wouldn't agree rep me unless they truly felt the work was going to sell.

Then the contract that's attached to the sweet letter tells me I have to pay them $75 a month for "administrative" fees throughout the life of the contract. I told them if they're so confident in the screenplay, then they should be willing to wait until it sells before taking any money. I didn't hear back from them.

What exactly is "web site work" anyway?

Hey Peter,

I just did a quick search on the "Preditors & Editors" web site and found that ST Literary received a Not Recommended rating because of the fees they charge. So my NO is even stronger now.

For future reference, here's preditors & editors site: http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/

Hey Rich,

Thank you very much!

Pete

Mocean certainly looks legit. Is their release form fairly standard? I'd say about half of the people who have requested my scripts ask me to sign a release.

By the way, if they have not sold much yet... I think they'll probably work very hard to do so.

Best,

Paul

There was a bit of a controversy on the Done Deal message board a few months ago when Mocean admitted to taking 10% of a client's Nicholl Fellowship money.

Some posters expressed the opinion that a reputable manager would not take a percentage of money won in a contest or fellowship, since it does not constitute sales.

Others defended Mocean, as the writer in question offered the percentage freely.

You can find the whole thread on Done Deal.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Well, that's a turn off right there!

Contest winnings belong to the Writer--not their Rep. A sale is different.

That info tells me I will NEVER consider them for representation.

Let me add that I passed on them when they wouldn't read my material without their release form - I was going to send it through my Entertainment Attorney. And if you can't trust an attorney...

I have no problem with Release Forms. A lot of agencies and prodcos ask for them. Legally, they're basically worthless.

Have you ever seen Saturn Films' Release Forms? It looks like their attorneys sign them before two copies are sent to you for signature. I have no problem with them.

Thanks for the info.

I too have trouble with an agency taking fellowship or award money.

My experience regarding release forms has been either a release form or an attorney or agent, but not a realease form and an attorney or agent.

Paul

If I recall correctly, Mocean helped the writer with a rewrite of that particular screenplay, and that's why the writer had no problem with giving them 10%. There's a chance I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's how it went down. Not saying that it's right or wrong, just trying to expand the knowledge base.

Mutual Film Company sent me a release form which used the words "similar" and "identical" - I was prepared to sign a release form with the word "similar" but not "identical" - so I didn't send my script - was I wrong?

Wayne

Hi.

I sent a comedy to about fifteen agents, mgrs and indies and there was never a mention of the need for a release form. Most of them sent brief letters of rejection.

I suspect we should have a reputable story analyst provide feedback before submitting the script.

I've heard their prices run from $100 to $1,000 for 110 to 120 page scripts.

I've had acquaintances read scripts and they have nothing to say when they return them. No help for me in that corner of the barn.

Grover

Wayne,

I can understand your reluctance to sign a release like that.

But the good news is that a release that seeks to deny you protections you automatically have (under copyright law) are legally unenforceable.

So go ahead and sign it. It's not binding, if it ever came to legal action.

Grover, what city are you in? Most script analysts/consultants are $500 to $5,000. The only way you could get Linda Seger YEARS ago (15?) for $500 is if you were one of her students. A few years ago, someone told me her price was $5,000-$7,000--but don't quote me on that.

And most Release Forms use the words "similar" and "identical." Of course, they're not going to purchase your script if they have something already "similar" or "identical." They're covering their asses when they say that. But they're not covered very well. Anybody could sign your name on a Release Form and send it in. Legally, they don't mean shit. Why do you think Disney requires your signatures to be notarized?

Pre-nuptial agreements rarely stand up in court. Signing those things, I've noticed, seem to be the "fast lane" to divorce court.

And those are prepared by lawyers. You think a Release Form is really going to carry any weight?

Terri:

Last year Howard Meibach offered to do a story analyst dance for $100. I have no idea what the value might be after reviewing his response.

A couple of years ago a referral from a pro magazine listed a lady whose fee was $75 for phone time. Her fee was $300 for a full length script. I haven't asked if the rate has increased. No point in identifying her since I've had no personal experience.

Hollywood ego and status can push a story analyst price upward to Mars.

I believe that quality story analysts are available, somewhere, for a modest fee. A famous ego with their $1,000 to $7,000 fees, doesn't mean that he/she can provide the kind of help we unknowns need.

I live in San Diego County and spent ten years in the Hollywood/Van Nuys area.

Everybody should believe in something. I believe I'll have another bottle of Palomar spring water.

Best,

Grover

Hi,

I really think you're getting a bit too obsessed with the release form.

If the place is legit I'd send it in.

Paul

Here's my two cents. Any Management (or) Agency that asks for more than the customary 10% is ripping you off!

Any Management or Agency that asks for additional money from you to manage or rep you is ripping you off!

Legitimate managers and reps make money off sales, not fees for reading-editing, etc.

Anyone asking you for "any" money up-front is ripping you off!

"Unknown?" You may be "unknown," but I'm not, unfortunately. I've been plastered on the front page of every major newspaper in this country. Just not as a Writer. (Don't ask for what, 'cuz I ain't gonna tell ya!)

Actually, it was the NZ Writers Guild lawyer that advised against sending it, but I definitely agreed. The Writers Script Network also advises against the word "identical". I think it's taking it to far to ask a writer to sign anything saying they can use something "identical"."Similar" is bad enough - oh how you Americans love your lawyers! (Do you know you can't sue for personal injury in NZ!)

Terri, - you've given us some BIG clues!

Let's see, the clues so far have been Miss. October, knocked a man stealing tramp across a bar in Kansas and national notoriety. Is Terri Dickey the pen name of Anna Nicole Smith? Wow, it all makes sense now!

Let's see, the clues so far have been Miss. October, knocked a man stealing tramp across a bar in Kansas and national notoriety. Is Terri Dickey the pen name of Anna Nicole Smith? Wow, it all makes sense now!

Eric,

I was thinking more along the lines of Monica Lewinsky, but the only publication should would have received Miss October for would be Dry Cleaners Illustrated (for the blue dress)

Luv it!!!

ROFLMFAO

Terri does like "Shooting Stars"!

Terri's obviously no Tom, Dick, or Harry!

Does the answer lie with Hugh, Bob, .. or Larry?

"Let's see, the clues so far have been Miss. October, knocked a man stealing tramp across a bar in Kansas and national notoriety. Is Terri Dickey the pen name of Anna Nicole Smith? Wow, it all makes sense now!"

It wasn't Kansas, Eric, and "Miss October" had nothing to do with it (that came later).

They wanted to do a TV movie on me and I said "no." 48 HOURS wanted to interview me. I said "no." And when I met an ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT reporter at a party at the Hilton and he said, "I know that name. How do I know that name?" I grabbed my boyfriend and said, "It's time to leave."

No, I'm not Ms. Smith. I did see her necking behind a menu at Casa Vega right when she was claiming to the world that she hadn't been on a date for two years. Well, maybe it wasn't a date. But they sure were suckin' face!

"Mutual Film Company sent me a release form which used the words "similar" and "identical" - I was prepared to sign a release form with the word "similar" but not "identical" - so I didn't send my script - was I wrong?"

Did I read that right? Are you crazy? Are you frickin' out of your mind? Do you know who they are? They're one of the MAJORS!!!! If I read that right, then you are what you say--a "newbie."

I've never denied it!

It was the 5th August. Todd Winton from Mutual Film Company e-mailed me asking for "Chaos".

"It was the 5th August. Todd Winton from Mutual Film Company e-mailed me asking for "Chaos"."

He must've moved up. Last I heard, he was Don Granger's Assistant.

?

Was Jennifer Flowers Miss October?

Laugh all you want, Wayne. But it was a very serious situation that put me through hell for several years. I'd rather not re-live it.

How would you like to lose your job--because of your name? How would you like walking into a store and being refused service--because of your name? How would you like sitting behind people who talk about you and say, "Oh, I know her," when, in fact, they've never laid eyes on you? How would you like to be introduced to someone and get the same reaction every single damn time--"Oh . . . you're that girl"?

Nuff said Terri!

Do you think I should just send my script to Mutual - unfortunately I have already replied, - very politely - do us poor unrespected writers just have to put up with signing our rights away?

Nuff said Terri!

Do you think I should just send my script to Mutual - unfortunately I have already replied, - very politely - do us poor unrespected writers just have to put up with signing our rights away?

Who is Don Granger?

Mutual...Pathe...United Artists...

Oldies but biggies.

Paul

"Who is Don Granger?"

Feel lucky you asked that on this BB and not at some exec meeting or Hollywood party.

If you're going to pitch to a company, you need to know who you're pitching to.

Don Granger is one of the owners of Mutual Film Company.

MAN ON THE MOON

SAVING PRIVATE RYAN

A SIMPLE PLAN

TOMB RAIDER

12 MONKEYS

WONDER BOYS

So should I still send it - no-one has read it yet! (I'm still hopeful!). I didn't mention their release form when I politely declined - maybe I should just send it - have to be in pdf on a CD rom thou - brads aren't available in NZ.

"Exec meeting or Hollywood party" ... you do have faith in me Terri!!!

Doesn't piching come AFTER someone has read your screenplay?

If only I could write loglines.....

Wayne--

If you didn't e-mail pitch or snail-mail pitch CHAOS to Mutual Film Company, then how did you get the request?

Terri

Sorry Terri - I was still dreaming about exec office, boardroom, Hollywood party etc. - people looking into my eyes, that sort of thing!

"Pitch" as opposed to "query" - but I get your point! - I snailed a fancy query, laminated (so it wouldn't fit in the bin/trash!) (there goes another secret!) with "Chaos" done slighty like a billboard poster heading for a movie (yeah, I know what the "books" say!) - unfortunately, most were returned unread or unopened - so technically it was more of a pitch. Just didn't work! Still, living in NZ, and unknown, I think you have to stand out somehow!

I don't "query." I pitch. I don't ask them what they want. I tell them what I've got.

Maybe that's why I always get a response that's a REQUEST as opposed to a "No thank you."

Oh Terri - what I would give for your wisdom!

I will be assertive in future - PITCH!!! not "Query".

If only I could write a good PITCH....

How would you like sitting behind people who talk about you and say, "Oh, I know her," when, in fact, they've never laid eyes on you? How would you like to be introduced to someone and get the same reaction every single damn time--"Oh . . . you're that girl"?

You're not Randi Brooks are you Terri? Not that you'd tell us if you were...

Sign the release forms, but keep copies of your paper trail. Emails, certified mail going out, etc. etc. etc.

Mocean posts a lot on Done Deal and I got the impression that they were an agency that helps to get the writer's story "ready." Which is probably a good thing. Right?