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I've been making a list of short script contests - are there any that you recommend?

I've produced 4 of my own shorts, but this new short would be a bit more expensive than my others, so I'm looking at prizes of producing (though exposure or small prize money is nice too and would help).

Thanks.

-Irin Evers www.neuroticboyproductions.com

I totally think shooting shorts (or even a feature) is a great way to go. I've shot 4 shorts (6 minutes up to 50 minutes - at $3K to $18K). I've learned so much about not only filmmaking, directing and acting, but it has really improved my writing in ways that I never would have learned (my writing is more visual, my dialogue is better).

And then there's the great part of going to festivals and meeting other writers and directors, having your films seen. And I feel like I'm pushing my career at another angle that other writers aren't able to. If you haven't shot a short, although it's a lot of work, you'd be surprised at how easy it will be to learn the basics, and how cheap it is to shoot on HD these days. My first one is bad, I wouldn't show it to you, but the learning curve was well worth it, and it was a lot of fun.

I highly recommend DC Shorts. Besides being a festival of only shorts (and a lot of them) so all directors are on equal footing (you're not second to features), it was incredibly well run. It was a lot of fun, well attended, and about 90 filmmakers attend each year. Also, they help with free housing, zip cars and free food. I'm still in touch with the group of filmmakers I ended up hanging out with there. I wish I had something to submit this year.

Thanks Jean! Congrats to you - I just read the other thread about "Lady Jazz"!

I also entered because of what I read on moviebytes. So I owe you guys.

Jean - the new house has been very stressful. Lots of things going wrong - backed up plumbing, several leaks - but things are getting better. I hope all is well with you.

Thanks!

Was it the International Family Film Festival? From looking at the emails, I think that just about everyone placed except for me! Yes - I may be one of the 7. LOL!

Congrats Michael!

I'm a QF too for 2 scripts. PAGE doesn't post their QFs online, they only post the next round and beyond.

Good luck Michael! (What category are you in?)

I have a family adventure - not sure which category it advanced in.

And also a (romantic) comedy.

With so many of us, we'd better win this thing!

WGA is safe - the rub is that it expires. Copyright is more money, and more of a pain - you don't get the instant email, but it's worth it in the end I think. I'd suggest copyright sent by return receipt so you know in a week or so that they have it. If you want to send it to a contest tomorrow - use WGA so you feel secure with the immediate email. I usually use copyright, but then WGA if I have a draft months later that has a lot of changes.

A way that I use to check up on agencies is to type "Name of Agency, scam" into yahoo or google and see what comes up. There's also a website that posts these things, but the name escapes me right now - search for it (it includes all literary agencies).

Thanks so much! I just found this posting (been busy of course). Her first words were "Nicholl Fellowship" - just kidding! Seriously - it's been pretty incredible (and yeah - not so much in the sleep department).

Jean's "Lady Jazz" won the best crime drama award at the Action on Film film festival! Thought I'd pass along the good news...

My family script "The Junior Detectives and the Cities of Gold" advanced to the Semis and so did Jean Hunter's family script "Serena's Thunder." Jean has vowed to kick my butt! (Okay - she didn't really say that...)

I started small with the shorts. Got my first taste placing in the American Gem. But it was just a gateway drug and I quickly moved to harder stuff, placing in the 2005 PAGE. Now every time I say I won't enter a contest, I get the shakes and have to submit. When my wife asks what all the "without a box" charges are on my credit card, I say it's jewelry that ordered for her, without a gift wrapping box. I take my winning emails, slice them up with a razor blade on my glass coffee table and snort them until I pass out. Okay - maybe the last two aren't true, but I am an addict!

Making money? No. I did win $1,500 in BlueCat and won a copy of Final Draft recently. I've had 33 placements in 20 contests. It's definitely helping me to meet people, I get some requests for scripts, and it looks great on my website and cover letters. Is it getting me closer to selling a script? I like to think so, but it's a debate I've been having with myself.

Normally I'd jump at this (I was a reader in NYC for a few years and loved reading and problem-solving), but it's been a busy time (new house and baby in the past month). But if you email me in a few weeks, I may be able to. I know this may not be soon enough, but it may be perfect timing for the next draft. Keep my email for then: neuroticboy@earthlink.net

Thanks! 4? Damn!

Thanks everyone! It's all been so amazing.

I kind of wish you guys hadn't posted your opinions on the script on the board, but just emailed it. I feel like I'm going to read it biased now, knowing the first section is confusing.

I think the Disney Fellowship is one of the best opportunities out there for a screenwriter. I'd kill for that one. I wouldn't worry about the releases. (Unless, of course, your script is better than mine...)

This debate is over! The US Copyright office has now gone electronic - you can enter all your info (no paperwork), upload the script (no trip to the post office or return receipts), pay online - and fee has been dropped to $35. I know the WGA is $22, but for $13 more, it's forever. And now it's so much easier.

Congrats to both of you!

I think August 29th?

I'm dying to go to it. But with a new baby at home, I think I need my script to advance to convince my wife that I need to go!

I didn't know that. That's neat.

I hope that happens to me!

No - I've never been and I know I'd just love it - it's so writing focused. The only time I've been to Texas was when I had a film in WorldFest Houston. (I'm in NYC). And I'm dying to see Austin and go to the fest. I should post my wife's email and have everyone send a message!

I have to go with the group here - don't pay. I know it's tough because you don't want to miss a possible opportunity, but you should really research this group on the web, imdb, etc. and see if they've really done anything. Just because they can try to package things doesn't mean they'll really get people attached (anyone can make up a budget, etc.), let alone sell it. This could easily be a scam.

Just kidding. I didn't want to have yet another "Jean Hunter does it again" thread!

"Serena's Thunder" will win 1st , 2nd or 3rd at the SouthWest Writers Contest awards ceremony in September.

1 to 3 pages. Sequences can go longer. Though I have seen read great exceptions like Grace is Gone.

Congrats!

Do you teach at film school? Where?

(I never went, but wish I did. The film bug bit me later in life and I met people who taught me how to make films).

Very cool. If I could do it again - that's the kind of place I'd have gone.

Have you made any shorts?

Thanks! And congrats to anyone else who made the finals...

Thanks everyone!

Yeah - I like that they have added this final rewrite. I hate when it's months later and you wish you could swap out the script. I just sent my new draft in...

I also just found out that my family adventure script made the Second Round, but not the Semis. Austin mentions that there are special roundtables for Second Rounders. Has anyone attended as a Second Rounder - and did you attend these meetings?

Are any of you attending this year?

No problem. And congrats Paula!

Thanks Julie for the info.

Thanks Santa and Jean!

Yeah - I've met so many writers here who have great scripts that I feel should be sold. It's that next step of matchmaking that seems to be really eluding so many good writers.

I've used WithoutABox for both film and script submissions and it's saved me so much time. I highly recommend it.

Though they just added something that costs you a few bucks extra in case the festival/contest you are submitting to doesn't happen - they'll refund your money. In my opinion - make sure you uncheck this, it's the worst bet ever. You shouldn't be submitting to places that could disppear overnight, and if they do, that's life - but paying a few dollars each time will quickly get you to the amount that you would lose. That's what I think.

I used it and although it took a little longer this way because I'd never done it before, ultimately I think this will save me much time in the future (and postage). I think it's awesome.

I just got it too. I'm going to email him and ask who he is and where he got my name. That's just weird with him not giving a name, website, anything...

I'm finally going to attend the Austin Film Festival. Please let me know if you're attending so we can meet up there. (I have a Second Rounder).

Also - I got a Producer's Badge which includes everything except 1) the Saturday Awards Luncheon and 2) Pitch Competition - are these two worth doing? Any suggestions on things to "not miss"?

Is it worth staying until Monday morning or do lots of people leave on Sunday afternoon/evening? (I'm going to arrive on Wednesday).

I've been to lots of fests, but is there anything that I might not think of to bring, to do, etc.?

Heather - definitely send me your contact info.

Thanks!

-irin evers neuroticboy@earthlink.net www.neuroticboyproductions.com

So I asked if he had a website, what his last name is, and how he found me (and my website is listed at the bottom of the email). This is the response:

Hi Irin

Nice website. You can all me at 310-430-8371 with any questions and can verify my references after if you are interested in hiring me

best, adam

I'm curious! Of course - very strange that there's no website and no last name quickly given esp. for someone who is proud of his stats. I would find it hard to use his services if I were looking for someone. Did anyone else get any other info?

Paula - I can forward the email if you want to see it.

Thanks so much for all the info!

I had already printed out Heather's posting, and I added the Langlais postings from Done Deal to my collection. Looking forward to meeting all of you. I'd meet up for coffee - let's confirm when it gets closer. My cell is: 917-715-2862 and my email is: neuroticboy@earthlink.net. Shoot me an email with your info whenever you have a chance.

Thanks again.

-irin evers

Congrats Dorothy!

Thanks Heather! I'm going to check that out right now...

Thanks! I still can't believe it!

And congrats again to Jean - who told me about the contest. Thanks Jean.

Table 11 was the place to be. But Peter was the man on the red carpet - he's ready for the Oscars!

Eric's absolutely right. I used to check the day they were posted. Now I make a list just so I know what I entered and I don't look until I get an email. Whatever happens, happens. My motto is to have my next script or short film done before I get the rejections from the last one!

Thanks! And the trip was definitely worthwhile - I met a lot of people and had a great time.

See? I was doing fine until I learned that I didn't make the cut! LOL.

Congrats Jean, Gene, Michael, etc.!

Thanks!

Anyone else going to Austin? Heather and I exchanged cell numbers. Gene, John, send me your cell if you want to or I'll just look for you there, and anyone else - neuroticboy@earthlink.net

Thanks.

-irin evers

Congrats again!

Thanks! And congrats to everyone else!

Can someone please post or forward the email or tell me where to find the results - I don't see it anywhere and I'm down at the Austin Film Festival (with fellow moviebyters) and I'd like to know for pitching, and add it to my website. Thanks.

Sorry it's taken me a while to write, but I owed my wife and had to watch the baby the past few days.

First - congrats Anita on your winning screenplay. Sorry moviebyters, she's very sweet so you can't hate her.

Thanks Heather Hughes, Aadip Desai, Bill True and the Brother Langlais for you postings on the fest - they helped so much. Also in attendance from moviebytes - John Arends and Nathan Goldman (am I missing any others?) All of you guys were so nice and so much fun to hang out with. I miss you already. Please let me know if you're ever in New York. And can we meet up in Austin next year? I've already started mentioning it to my wife!

I've been to a lot of festivals with films and occasionally with scripts. I also attending the Expo in 2006. Austin was incredible. I had such a good time. It is everything that I heard. I met and heard from tons of producers, agents, managers, filmmakers, and (mostly of course) screenwriters. There was easy access to the producers, agents, managers and produced screenwriters either after a panel, during a roundtable, at a party or anywhere in the hotel. I guess I should say that it was easy to network, but I wouldn't even call it "networking" because it was just a matter of walking around, having fun and chatting with nice people.

Basically, this is the best festival for screenwriters - very inspiring and I had a great time. I highly recommend attending. I just don't want your scripts to knock mine out of the competition!

A contained thriller has one (or a few) locations like Phone Booth, Inside Man, Rear Window, etc.

I have no idea about elevated horror though!

Is it for midwesterners only?

Thanks and congrats to the rest of you (Jean, Bros., etc.)!

I can look the person up for you on imdb pro if you want. Just email me.

neuroticboy@earthlink.net

No problem. Good luck!

Thanks!

Congrats guys!

Thanks too!

Thanks! And congrats to Jean.

Jean is actually the one who recommended Cinema City to me so I entered - lucky she beat me!

We all had a great time at the festival and awards ceremony, and Suzanne has been great at trying to get our scripts out there, so I recommend the festival.

Patrick- I forgot about this post, but I'm glad you brought it back. I think Poetist has some great points and it's nice to see them at a time when I need to hear that stuff.

Walter - you hit the nail right on the head.

I was just having this same conversation with someone.

Patrick - glad you copied the exact words with a phony script. It shows I'm not going crazy. Lol!

That's not the synopsis I saw. It didn't mention the girl at all. It was something like: A kid from the slums of India is one question away from winning one million dollars, but is being questioned by the police because they think he's cheating. It was better written of course, and it may've mentioned the torture or him telling the story of his life - I forget.

Another eason to enter the Austin Film Festival (if you even need one) - Slumdog Millionaire played there in mid-October, and Danny Boyle was hanging around and very open to chatting.

Rachel-

Most likely it's rejection, but I'd still send out another email a few weeks after the first. The person may've been to busy to read it or write back - you're the lowest priority for them. I don't think you have anything to lose by sending another email. And contacting them may move you from the bottom of the stack to slightly higher in the stack when they remember why they requested the script in the first place. You never know.

I've been using Movie Magic for many years and love it. I'm collaborating with someone on a script and he uses Final Draft. I won it in a contest and had held onto it, so I loaded it up today to see how to use it.

Basically - they seem almost exactly the same. Maybe I need to dig deeper, but the basics and easy of use seem almost identical.

There went my endorsement deal!

If you use Final Draft on a PC and then send the file to someone using a Mac - will it not work? I'm asking because I just tried that with the guy I'm collaborating with and he can't get the file to work. Any advice? We were hoping to pass the file back and forth in FD.

Thanks Ron! I'm going to send this to my collaborator.

Thanks! I can't believe it.

(Sorry it took me a while to answer. I was on vacation at Sundance - saw some great films).

Thanks Orlanda. We're going to try it again.

Those are definitely at the top.

I'd also add BlueCat and PAGE - these two are probably next in terms of submissions. I like that PAGE has categories. And Gordy Hoffman really helps you if you place in BlueCat. He's serious about this and succesful himself (Waldo Salt Screenwriting Award).

I've found that ones with festivals and labs are important because you get to meet and network with people. Ones like: ABC/Disney, Slamdance, Cinestory, etc.

Look at the prizes, the amount of entries, what happened with the winners, etc. Will even winning this contest actually matter for your career?

Thanks!

And congrats Dinah!

You can enter as many as you want.

I agree with that it's good enter a variety - not just the "home runs" especially at first so that you get something for resume and for your query letters. As you progress, it's better to be picky in terms of what you're looking to get out of the contests. But the above ones are always good.

I think if you want it to be a secret to the viewer then it should also be a secret to the reader. The reader wants to experience the screenplay like watching the film.

Thanks Heather and Orlanda.

On the drama comment: This is my first time placing in Zoetrope on my 4th attempt. The ones that missed were two romantic comedies and a heavy urban drama which has placed in many contests. I finally made the Quarters with a family adventure treasure script - very "Goonies" and very Disney.

Yeah - I agree with that. Though it's harder to hide than in a film because anything you mention in a script usually has a reason for being mentioned. There's that fine line of obvious vs. noticing it but not realizing it yet.

Sounds creepy!

I've always been under the impression that "no unsolicited material" means no scripts, no queries, don't bug us. But I could be wrong.

I've been doing this for 10 years and I've found that in the past few years, I definitely spend many times more time "managing" my career than actually writing - submissions, postings on the web, updating my info on websites, emails to contacts, attending festivals, etc., etc. And yeah - it's a million times more difficult to get your script out there than to write it.

I hadn't done a query letter mailing in at least two years. Talk of queries at the Austin Film Festival in October got me thinking about doing it again because I had new scripts to pitch and had placed in many contests since the last time. I decided to only do email queries (it's easier and cheaper) and not synopses (I hate them). I used HCDonline ($20/month) and bought the Fade In Agency Guide ($55) - and ended up with a list of around 110 agents and managers. In the end, I got somewhere between 5 and 10 script requests (and some "not taking new clients" responses). This is comparable to the responses I've gotten in the past.

This time I got lucky, an agent who never reads queries or requests scripts had decided to look for one new client - my timing was right, she liked my frist script and requested two more, which she loved - and which happened to be the genre she was looking for (romantic comedies), and she signed me.

A few things: I was lucky and had good timing. But everything in the past 10 years led to this. I knew how to write a decent query from having written many before. I had several scripts (6) ready to go, not just one, and was able to give more when requested by the agent. I have 53 contest placements for my scripts and have won 5 film festival awards for my short films - this helped my query letter to stand out (and has helped my confidence). I attended the Austin Film Festival, which pushed me to try again with the queries, and also gave some good advice on writing query letters that I'd never thought of. I'm generally shy, but having attended festivals before and even having had Q&A's for my films, I've gotten used to networking, having fun, and pitching - which all helped at Austin.

So my advice is that all the things you do can add up and get you there. Don't think anything is wasted. These queries aren't a waste of time. This script isn't a waste of time. But yes, the bottom line - you also have to get very lucky.

I agree - the key is definitely the logline. And the shorter of a query, the better. All I included was:

3 sentences about my awards the title, genre and logline my contact info

I only heard back within a few hours (both requests and "not taking new clients") from a handful of people. Most didn't reply, of course. But I did hear from many of them days later and even weeks later.

At the Austin Film Fest - many agents, mangers and producers were constantly saying "I never look at queries." But then it always seemed to be followed by "except this one time..." So if you happen to catch the right person at the right moment, and you have the right query, you could get lucky with the big agencies, producers.

For some reason the spacing got messed up. My query had:

3 sentences about my awards, the title, genre and logline, my contact info

Congrats guys!

Thanks everyone! I can't believe it.

I don't think it's that it defies the rules - I think it's just a "tragedy." The character starts to change, the arc goes that way, then he slips into his old ways and doesn't change. Some people might not like this non-Hollywood choice, but I really liked the film and thought the end felt right. But I don't think it broke the rules - they just chose tragedy over comedy. (Just my opinion.)

Thanks!

I couldn't make it either, but I know that Michelle Muldoon (who you might have met in Austin) is going.

Congrats!

Congrats guys!

Yeah - Michelle won and was thrilled, of course. I wish I could've seen her win though!

Gene- I'm going to email you a photo of me and Michelle so you'll know who she is...

I'm not going to jump into this one...

But as someone who was an indie production company reader for several years, no reader is going to watch a video. And I assume festival readers won't either. No one wants to extend their time on the job (you should see readers when they flip to the last page immediately upon being handed a script, see "120" and groan). I've seen videos and CDs being sent with scripts, but they usually aren't handed out. (Though I did get some great music for my iPod off a CD - thank you "High Moon" writer! Great tunes and your script was very well written by the way...)

Michael-

I just saw that "musical" again recently and that scene with the chicken wire is still incredible!

Congrats!

Thanks!

Congrats Jean! Excellent news!

Thanks. You guys make me blush!

Really - I appreciate it.

Congrats!

The site looks great and damn, you've written a lot!

A friend of mine has been invited to both with scripts (can we be so lucky?) but can only afford to attend one. I'm wasn't familiar with either until a few months ago so I don't know anything about them. If you could attend one, which would it be? How do they stack up in terms of exposure, meeting contacts, etc.

Thanks!

Thanks. This is the only time that I'm wishing "one of my friends" really meant me!

Anyone else? Any thoughts?

Congrats!

I'm not sure who Ant is, but I did really enjoy these articles by Gordy when they were sent in the emails over the past few months. But yes, I'm not sure why they're just being dropped into the boards with no explanation. Ant should at least write something.

I have to defend BlueCat. Obviously, I had a good experience placing in the top 5 in 2007 - my first finalist showing in a competition. I've met up with Gordy several times since then and we communicate via email often. He's been a big source of encouragement for me. Lily's 2007 winner "The Stones" is being produced with her attached to direct (I believe). (She just had a short at 2009 Slamdance). And Gordy isn't just a guy who started a contest. He's been there. His script for "Love Liza" won the Waldo Salt Screenwriting Award at Sundance - right now that's just a dream for me (and most of us). He has a good sense of screenplays and solving problems (I recommend his classes), and he champions scripts that might otherwise never get recognized.

I think it's worth entering BlueCat even as just a chance to get on Gordy's radar. I get the impression that he at least looks at every script (he's an incredibly fast reader).

As for contests with feedback, I take it all with a grain of salt. And the same goes for readers at production companies. And the same goes for films at film festivals. It's just one opinion, that could have biases. All you need is one person to champion your script - the other opinions don't matter. That's the person I'm trying to find.

Thanks!

I want to read Cover Band: Don't Stop Believin'! I'm a huge 80's music fan (especially alternative/new wave).

As someone who's placed in many contests, it sounds like your saying that I'm an excellent technical writer but my scripts aren't original. But your scripts are original, but not appreciated by the contests? Seriously?

Take a look at my scripts, I think I've some very good original ideas. And I know other unsold contest winners that I can say the same for. And I like to think that I'm also a good techincal writer. If you have great original ideas, why don't you learn the techincal side so you can get your movie made?

It's easy to point that the multiplex and say the only films out there are crap. And Eric's totally right that "marketing" is king. But do you go to the indie theaters? And film festivals? There's so much great original stuff out there that does get made, it just doesn't have the marketing behind it. Do you support the types of films (and filmmakers) that you're trying to make or have you paid $10 to see Mall Cop - encouraging studios to make more of those films?

I just don't understand this whole conversation at all. A reader's opinion is just one opinion. If you go to see a film with a few friends, odds are that you'll get a whole bunch of different opinions (and no one is shy about their thoughts on films). And you may not agree with someone's opinion, they may have biases that you don't, etc. - and frankly you don't need to agree.

When you get an opinion from a script contest, you're getting an opinion - that's it. And it's like you're putting readers on a pedestal. If you think that the readers of BlueCat (who I've been happy with) are any different that readers of other contests and productions companies, you're wrong. I was a reader for many years and read hundreds of scripts at productions companies (my longest stay was at Andrew Lauren Productions in NYC) and contests, and I've also read scripts on Project Greenlight and Triggerstreet. I think I give good advice, but even if I don't - it's just one opinion. I think getting outside readers is huge - they are the only ones who can read your script without your biases and are so important to catch things that you just can't see, but aren't. I think that readers are so important that I belong to a writing group in NY that meets every few weeks and every member was a former reader for a production company. And I often get varied opinions on my writing from them.

But guess what? Readers make mistakes. Readers get distracted. Most readers don't do this as a career - not just ones at contests, but at production companies. So you're up against the same thing anywhere. They're only human. Did this reader miss things because it wasn't clear, because your script lost their attention and they were just trying to get through it, etc.? Maybe. You should take that as a possibility. Of course, the reader might have also not done their job well and that's a shame if so.

If you're unhappy with BlueCat, try other contests with coverage for opinions. I also use two script consultants who I can't say enough good things about (Bill Pace and Pilar Alessandra). I execute most of their notes in my rewrites.

But the bottom line is that writing is about rewriting. Are you distancing yourself from the notes and really taking in it? If the notes are off, are you looking at why the writer wrote that note - there may be another issue and they misdiagnosed it? If you still think the reader is wrong and you want notes - go to another source.

I placed in the Top 5 of 2,400 in BlueCat in 2007. Obviously, Gordy liked my script. In one of his seminars, he read my next script and well, "hated" is strong word - let's go with "disppointed." He trashed it. That script won 2nd Place at Cinema City last fall, was a Finalist in PAGE, finally got me invited to the Austin Film Festival, is currently in the Top 10 in All Access, etc. Does that mean Gordy is wrong? Does that mean Gordy doesn't know anything about screenwriting? It's just one opinion.

Hey Tom-

Thanks about my short Two Play - I appreciate it.

-irin

They were interested in one of my scripts a few years back, then called ST or Sydra. I found all that bad stuff on the web and wrote them off. Trust those websites.

I also liked the notes from ScriptSavvy and Extreme Screenwriting (Barb Doyon) - have used those services recently.

If you're willing to go to around the $300 range and want a consultant. Bill Pace is in NY (www.scripteach.com) and has been reading my scripts since #4 (he gave me incredibly insightful notes on #11 tonight actually). I can't say enough about him. He was recommended by a friend who still uses him, and it turns out that another friend took a class with him and loves him.

This year I contacted Pilar Alessandra in LA (www.onthepage.tv) after her helpful pitch DVD and word of mouth. Also, I can't say enough about her notes. She helped with my last one and now with my latest script. And they are much better for it.

I'd had bad experiences with analysts in the past - even one who was a top rated on by Creative Screenwriting (I won't mention names - let's just say one of his notes was that I use the word "towards" instead of "toward" and am wasting valuable space). That guy and many others, are great at giving suggestions that take you in another direction, but hey, anyone can say "what if it takes place in Kansas instead of New York City?" or "what if the main character is a man instead of a woman?" - I'm exaggerating (a little), but you know what I mean. I found that Bill and Pilar are incredible in getting what you are going for (no matter the genre) and helping you get there, why you missed your mark and suggestions to hit it. That's what I want help with.

Pilar books up weeks, even months in advance so make an apppointment if you know you'll need one in the future. You can also luck out with a cancellation so that you can move up if you want to.

Hey James-

I'm definitely going to take you up on it after April 1st. (I've been using the BlueCat deadline as my deadline to finish up an urban drama I've been working on. I'm a few drafts in and now making changes based on some notes). Maybe we'll trade scripts. Hey - they haven't announced the winners...

I try! Thanks.

I still don't get all of this about the BlueCat feedback. Along the lines of what I've said in other threads and what David said - are you entering BlueCat for just the feedback?

1 - If you're not happy with the feedback - get it elsewhere. I've mentioned consultants I trust (Bill Pace and Pilar Alessandra) as well as other contests that have feedback - ScripSavvy, etc. Isn't the BlueCat feedback free with your entry? (Or I am I wrong about that?)

2 - If you're not entering for the feedback, consider it a bonus (whether or not you like or agree with it). I placed high in BlueCat in 2007 so you can say I'm biased, but I remember my BlueCat feedback being mixed if anything. (I just checked back at it and the "what works" section has 7 sentences, and "what needs work" has 42 sentences!) But Gordy read it and liked it. And that's why I'm entering these contests, for people to read my work, help me get it out there, help me along, etc. - and Gordy has done that.

3 - You put readers on this high pedestal. I read for several years for production companies. First of all, the job of a reader is to get out everything that good or bad with the script, including marketing - the production company wants to know "should we make this movie?" - and not to coddle (or even help) the writer. If you want those things, go to a consultant. Getting these notes from contests is for the most part a bonus to hear what the reader was thinking as they went through your script. (Yes, some contests do give more than others, and some make you pay more for more "studio style" notes). But back to the pedestal... Readers are biased. Readers argue over completely different opinions of the same script. (Where I read, we'd have weekly script reader meetings to discuss the scripts). It's the same way you and your friends argue over movies you've seen. Readers do their best to be professional, but yeah, occassionally they get distracted by things going on at home as they read a script. I'm not condoning that, but your script had better be good enough to keep their attention if this happens. I have friends who often have to read a stack of scripts in a weekend. Is this really how they want to spend their weekend? Sure - they want to find that next gem, but you'd better keep their attention when they're reading your script over seeing their friends and it's beautiful outside. Do you know what I mean?

The bottom line: it's just one opinion in an industry where no one agrees. Take what you can from it, use it if you want, throw it out if it's not useful, but if you don't take a note and that same note comes up again, you'd better think twice about that decision. Part of being a great screenwriter is being able to digest notes and being able to really figure out what's useful and what's not, and why the reader reacted a certain way - and then rewriting.

(I'm referring to David Blanc when I mention "David").

David is right - not having the lead character's name right, that's pretty bad and there's no excuse for that.

I like the applause as much as the next person. The vaildation from contests and friends whose opinion's I trust has absolutely kept me going while I've been trying to break in. But all I'm saying is that one reader doesn't matter. Everyone has different opinions and biases, people miss things, etc. - that's part of the business. I "passed" on a script that was produced and not only got into Sundance, but won the Grand Jury Prize. Does that mean that I don't know what I'm talking about when I read a script? I still stand by my coverage. The goal isn't to please every reader (though of course I hope that every reader thinks my scripts are brilliant) and it's impossible.

About a year ago, some new contests popped up that were getting some hype. I was at the tail end of submitting a recent script to contests, had just started submitting a new one - and so with the new contests, I dusted off two of my older ones. For a short period, I was submitting 4 scripts (I think my 4 best). One week, each of the 4 scripts placed in 4 DIFFERENT contests - with the other 3 NOT advancing at all. I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back. It's just a perfect example of different people liking different scripts - people loving one while others completely pass on it.

And - Gordy has (or had) a cat named Blue.

And his love of bleu cheese!

Thanks for the shout out Eric (and Jean)!

James-

They posted the winners - I just saw it. And bad news for us both. I was hoping with a 3 in 10 chance, we'd get one in the top 3! Still pretty cool that we made it that far.

Congrats Peter and Geoff! Incredible news!

I didn't get an email either. Maybe I was too busy masterbaiting.

I'm horrible at tech stuff too, but you creat a pdf through a program called Adobe Acrobat. It usually comes with your computer.

But I do it through my screenwriting program (Movie Magic) and most of them probably have it. In Movie Magic it's under "Print" - go through the process like you're going to print but change the destiination from your printer to "create a pdf". It was create a pdf and save it where you tell it to.

YOU'RE the Doctor of Social Surgery?!

I think we should call him TINY Smith.

Hey Michelle-

There's a thread somewhere on here. Basically, someone wrote a nasty letter about Fade In that was posted on a website. Fade In responded that the accusations were untrue. Scroll down for a thread on the contest and you'll find the info and the website.

Congrats Mike!

Congrats yet again!

I do agree that what contests are looking for doesn't always match up to what Hollywood is looking for. More accurate, I find that the scripts the contests award don't always seem to match up with what their sponsors are looking for (and who the winners get immediate access to). But also - you never fully know what someone will want at any given moment - so I don't fault the contests - at least they're trying to get exposure for the scripts.

I've had 5 feature screenplays that have done well in the contests and only 1 of the 5 was a drama - 2 romcoms, 1 comedy, 1 family adventure. So I disagree that comedies and action films aren't given a chance. Plenty of those scripts do well in the contests.

Janet - I know you write musicals, but I don't know how you can group musicals in with what Hollywood is looking for. It's not as if Chicago just won Best Picture. I know Momma Mia did very well, but it's based on a hugely successful stage musical, based on hugely successful songs by ABBA. As far as I'm aware, musicals aren't "in" - unless you've heard differently.

-Winston

Then why are you worrying about approval from the contests? Take all of those musicals you just mentioned and contact the companies that were involved with them. If contests don't like musicals, but people are looking for musicals, then cut out the middleman.

Yes - these are musicals that you've mentioned, but most of them rely on name recognition (of older properties) for the marketing. Hannah Montana is a great original concept, and along with HS Musical (I haven't seen either) it appeals to kids. Do yours appeal to teens and tweens? In your list I don't see one musical that isn't a remake that would appeal to an older generation. I don't know your scripts though - are they new musicals for older or younger viewers? If yours appeal to teens, why not contact companies that program film/TV for teens and/or have deals with those companies? Have you already done these things? What kinds of responses did you get? All I'm saying is that if the contests aren't accepting your material but you believe that people are looking for it, then you have to try other avenues - or write dramas because you believe they win all the contests.

(Is Step Up a dance movie or is there original music? I haven't seen it).

Janet-

This quote: "But I understand your position. You think what I'm really saying is that contests should lower their standards or give special consideration to musicals." That's NOT what I'm saying at all. That's not anywhere in my responses. I don't think any contest should lower its standards for musicals or any other genre. Why should they?

What I'm saying (yet again) is that if you are saying that Hollywood wants musicals but contests don't award musicals - then you have several choices: 1 - find another way in 2 - write something else 3 - quit

Yes, it's difficult to get industry people to look at your work and contest placements can help a query letter. And of course Disney and other studios aren't going to look at your query. But there are companies that have deals with Disney and the other companies that have produced the movies you've mentioned, and there are smaller companies that have put in smaller amounts of money for the movies you've mentioned. And many of them will take queries. Instead of spending money on a contest that you say won't appreciate a musical, why not buy the Hollywood Creative Directory and Fade In Guide, research and contact? If you really want to get your script out there, you have to find another way. Otherwise, it's choice #2 or #3. You never answered the question if you've tried anything else but contests so I have a feeling you didn't.

And I'm also waiting to hear one musical that is original, but not for kids that has made tens of millions of dollars, let alone hundreds. Moulin Rouge is the only thing I can think of, but it was in 2001, used lots of pop lyrics, and was written by a successful director who could champion it. Even Joss Whedon's recent original musical went straight to the web for free and he has a huge cult following. So I'm still not sure where Hollywood is looking for musicals. But they are always looking for movies with name recognition (books, remakes, plays, etc.) Again - name some original musicals that weren't for kids in recent years that have made money...

Why don't you write your musical for the stage? There are no script contests to worry about and if it gets produced, they might just make it into a film.

Janet-

I have another question - although it'll probably go unanswered along with: -Have you even tried any other ways of getting your musical out there other than the contests, which you say are ineffective for musicals? (such as submissions, adapting as a stage musical, etc.) -Can you name one original musical not for kids in recent years that has done well, since you say that Hollywood is looking for them and they can make hundreds of millions of dollars on them?

Here's my new question: Have you written the music for your musical or are you just sending out a script with lyrics? I get the feeling that you haven't, but I honestly don't know. The reason I'm asking is because if you haven't, then you haven't done the full work. I know that you probably can't send a CD of the music to a screenplay contest, but if you want someone to make your musical (a producer, a company), they'll need to hear the music. The music is obviously an intergral part of spending millions of dollars on a stage or film musical. Even if the book and lyrics are great, the music will make or break it. The closest analogy I can come with is me writing an action movie with pages that say "really original 10 minute action sequence here" and expecting the director to figure it out. No one will buy that script. If you've written the music, send out a CD to companies who'll listen. If you haven't, you probably need to find a collaborator because you've only done half the work, and no producer would invest in a musical that they can't hear.

And the fact that Hollywood is digging up the bones of an old musical is not necessarily because msuicals are popular, but because pre-sold material is the Hollywood way now - anything that has name recognition is king.

I guess he's not "masterbaiting" all day!

I haven't heard of them, but there are websites that list scam publishings and screenplay rep companies - search on yahoo or google. It does sound fishy, but you never know. I'm not even sure what Circumvention Agreement is!

I'm insulted I didn't get it! Lol.

Do you need a mohel?

I could be wrong, but that clause doesn't sound they you can't send it out for two years. It's non-circumvent - meaning I think that you can't go around them. They don't want to introduce you to a producer and then you cut them out of the picture and go staright to the producer without them. Kind of the way you can't see an apartment with a broker and then go straight to the owner and buy it so they don't have to pay a broker's fee. The only rub would be that if you do get someone interested, and suddenly they say "we contacted that person" (I don't know if they could just send queries to people or the person would have to read the script for it to count), and then they'd want a fee - though they'd probably have to prove that they were in touch with the person. Anyway - have someone look at the contract for sure.

And yes, it seems really weird to be at this step without them having looked at a script. I was contacted by a manager in December who wanted me to fly out to LA for a meeting (I live in NY). But they hadn't read the script! Sure I'd like a meeting, but not to spend to fly out, leave my wife with baby - when they might not even like my writing. I told them that lived in NY and could I send them a script. It turned out that one of the managers was going to be in NY and was going to meet me when he came in. Needless to say, he didn't respond to my email and I'm glad I didn't fly out to LA. And no, they never read the script. Maybe ask them to read the script and see how they respond and judge it from there?

It depends on the month and the competition. But I had an Honorable Mention with a 54 - though didn't place with other scripts at 53 and 52.

Grammar's fer suckers!

57 is awesome! Congrats! And even better that you stuck with it and worked on it. I like the logline a lot.

Dana, you're going to kill me. I just got my feedback and my new urban drama got a 59. I honestly didn't think I was going to beat your 55.

And Cat, you're going to kill me too because I'm a fan of BlueCat. Try not to hold it against me! There's been a big backlash lately on the coverage being poorly written and it's a shame because Gordy cares about screenwriters and really knows his stuff. BlueCat was my first Finalist placement (2007) and Gordy's been very inspiring to me since then.

But regardless, you shouldn't count your script out of the BlueCat contest. My coverage was mixed at best for the script that made the Top 5. My theory is that the reader didn't care for it, but Gordy read it and did (though I could be wrong about that).

I'm still in shock about it. But let me tell you - you got a 55 and this is your first screenplay and your first contest entry?! You should be incredibly proud. I didn't place in a contest until my 4th script (this urban drama is my 11th). Luckily, I was too dumb to realize how bad the first few were and I didn't quit. You should consider hitting some of these May 1st and June 1st deadlines with your script.

My script that placed in BlueCat in 2007 ("Every time I go to Staten Island something bad happens...") went on to do the best in the contests of all my scripts. Gordy Hoffman tried to help me get it out there. But honestly, I think the script has some big issues that I haven't been able to solve. Recently, I took the script and adapted it to a 19 page short with the thought of shooting it. I'm still looking into it, but it would cost more than my first 4 films combined, so I'll have to be sure. (My dream is that I'll sell another script and use some of the money to shoot this short!) So I've been submitting the short script to contests and it won 1st Place at the Queens Film Festival, in the Latino Screenplay Competition, and now WorldFest Houston (plus some Finalist and Semi placements). So it's really pushing me to shoot it.

And Keith - I can't imagine. I have a 9 month old (and a dog) and that has taken away so much time. I didn't write anything new for 7 months recently (we moved and then had the baby) and it was killing me. If you lived in NY, we could alternate days watching all the kids (and my dog)!

Thanks! Yes - Script Savvy has great feedback. I actually entered last month because I wanted their feedback before I submit the script to the Sundance Lab, Film Independent Lab, and Nicholl today.

Dana - you just got unlucky with this month. 55 is really impressive and I'm sure you have a strong script.

Thanks everyone.

Yeah - I fear it's not going to get any easier to find writing time with the kids. I gave the dog a big rawhide bone to occupy her today.

Dana - when you said you got a 55, I thought you won or at least Honorable Mention. And with a director interested. You obviously have a good script. I have a feeling it'll do well in the contests.

No - it's not always supportive. I've made some great friends on here, and then hung out with them at festivals. But some other people... well...

Back to the May 1st submissions...

Baby Einstein is my savior!

I literally just submitted my script an hour ago to Film Independent. It's definitely worth entering (as long as you don't knock me out!) It's an incredible opportunity. But they are looking for indie films similar to what Sundance is looking for, not just mainstream/commercial. I submitted my new urban drama.

William - congrats on the March contest!

Thanks!

I know I've queried them. I'm pretty sure they looked at one of my scripts a few years ago. Releases like that are standard - just double check it (or have a lawyer friend glance at it). I'm pretty sure they're a reputable company - do an online search.

I'm still really bummed about the BlueCat bad rep lately and it all seems centered around the coverage. I've always looked at the blurb coverage as a little bonus into seeing what the reader thought - not as full script notes. I almost feel like they should drop the coverage if that's the big gripe - and that's a shame.

(I also found it interesting that the guy who started the first anti-BlueCat post and said he was going to post his coverage to show how poor it was, never did.)

Thanks Janet!

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the nice words.

Thanks!

They recently sent out an email saying they were doing work on the site. It should be up shortly, I think.

Definitely, one of the best competitions to enter.

I hope the party's not over yet!

Thanks guys.

Don't worry, Cat - in a few weeks everyone will forget the naked cannonballs!

I also write a lot of family stuff and am working on a family script to (though I also write some dark scripts). I'm in a writing group already, but I might be able to swap script reads if you want. I don't know if that interests you or if you're looking for someone to go through the whole process with.

Thanks Alex!

Congrats Terry!

I can't believe it! This is incredibly disappointing. I was looking forward to submitting my family adventure script this year. I think they're making a huge mistake.

Every time I open a script file and make a change, I add a new number to it. I recommend this because you can always go back to lines you cut, changes you made, etc. You never know when someone will suggest that you add exactly what you'd already cut. It also shows a nice arc of how you've progressed with the script.

I had written down August 3rd - can't find that on the website now though.

In the past, you had a month to send in the full script after being notified, but for some reason, I think it's 2 weeks now - but I could be wrong.

I agree, but I would think that hiring several talented writers for $50K each for a year's worth of scripts would pay off for them. But I don't have the list of what successes (or failures) the writers in the program have had. Personally, I'd work for them for a year for rent and food. Seriously.

Congrats!

They just requested my family adventure script. The release was pretty standard.

Congrats yet again!

Congrats!

Congrats Cat! Great news!

Thanks! I also saw Anita Justice Skibski, Pam Wells and Patti Sorge - all who attended Austin last fall.

And congrats to Amanda Costa! Any other moviebyters in?

You should definitely mention your awards and recommends. I think this at least shows that your writing has been validated by someone. I personally think that was what convinced my agent to request a script from my query. At the Austin Film Fest, they advised to put your awards.

Congrats John! Very cool.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking up what "pot calling the kettle black" means.

Sarcasm:

(noun) 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony. 2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

I've never used Jim's services and have never spoken to him (though I did place in last year's Silver) and I thought it was a really cool offer to submit 10 or so pages for him to review as a sample.

Thanks guys!

No problem Amanda. No - this is a different script that I wrote with my collaborator (working on getting his name added to the list) in between Spins and the new Christmas one.

I think it's tomfoolery to worry about what others think about screenwriting services even if they're paying for complete crap. Not my problem.

Just saying it was nice that Jim made the offer - and it's expected that he'd defend his worth.

I hope you spend as much time writing as you do worrying about this stuff.

I'm honored to be in there with you. Congrats Tom!

I think the best thing is to look at the prizes. At first, any contest placements are good for the resume. But some contests offer access to companies that we all can query anyway, or more copies of Final Draft.

Lately, I've been more interested in the ones that have Labs, Retreats, Film Festivals. And of course, the usual suspects (Nicholl, Austin, PAGE, BlueCat, Zoetrope, etc.) I'd also recommend Script Savvy - not just because I recently won. My Honorable Mention last year got me more reads than any other contest placement to date.

I agree about Cinestory - been trying to get in there for a long time.

On Sundance - I think that half of the spots come from referrals and half come from the open submissions. I could be wrong, but that's what I heard. I've never made it past the second round.

Gordy Hoffman has or had a cat named Blue.

Hey Eric - welcome to the boards.

Slamdance is one of the top in my opinion. It's usually listed as one of the top 10 Film Festivals in the world. So getting invited with a script would be a huge plus. It takes place in Park City at the same time as Sundance.

The Screenwriting Expo contest and the AAA contest are (I believe) two separate contests.

Congrats everyone. Great news!

I'm also in with you guys. My 3 new scripts made it - a drama, a comedy and a short script.

Good luck in the next round. Hopefully it'll be all MB's.

Sorry - I've been out of town and wanted to look back thru my notes before I responded because 928 sounded familiar...

I did a query mailing back in November to agents and managers. I got lucky and signed with an agent in December. But I kept track of all my query responses and here's what 928 Talent Management wanted:

$1,000 upfront and 5%

When you're done laughing, and laughing again. And a little more... seriously, that's what he said.

In case there was any confusion - that was the response to my query. As in "pay the $1,000" before reading the script.

By taking $1,000 to sign a client but reducing his commission to 5% (instead of 10% or even 20%), he's looked in a way to reward "signing clients" over "selling scripts". He would make just as much signing 5 clients as selling a script for $100K. So it's in his interest to sign as many people as possible, and selling (which is tougher to do) could take a backseat.

AKA - yes, scam.

But again, I don't think about entering BlueCat for the notes - it's just a quick opinion. For notes, I use two script analysts that I think very highly of. I enter BlueCat for the exposure.

This is all a shame and I feel like Gordy should stop giving out the notes because it only seems to turn some people off and takes away from the point of BlueCat and Gordy's commitment to finding new voices and strong writers.

I agree about ScriptSavvy - great notes and they really try to help. My Honorable Mention last year got me the most requests of any of my contest placements (or wins) so far. I also like getting the quick feedback and monthly results. I'm waiting for my results today too Terry - don't kick my butt!

A few years ago, my best friend told me about a guy who he loved named Bill Pace in NY - he also teaches at the New School and his website is: www.scripteach.com. (I just went to check the website and I'm actually listed on his page). It turns out that since then, I've met several other people who swear by him too. What sets him apart is he really intuitively gets what you're going for (not matter what genre) and is able to smartly suggest changes that will help you get there. I know every analyst should be like this, but my experience found analysts who would try to push my scripts in other directions, not get me closer to what I was trying for (and missed). His notes on my scripts over the years have definitely made them better and have been very insightful. I also know some of weaknesses because of his notes and I try to work on those. His price is around $300. If you live in NY, you meet him in person for a few hours to go over his notes and review the script page by page.

A few years ago, a friend suggested Pilar Alessandra's pitching DVD when I was planning on pitching at the 2006 Screenwriting Expo. Her DVD was incredibly helpful. And since then, I'd heard people rave about her script notes. So I sent her a script this past fall and was very impressed with her insightful notes. I've sent her another since then. She's also around $300, she's in LA, and there's usually a long waiting list. Her website is www.onthepage.tv. I'm taking a class with her in NY in a few weeks.

Personally, I feel that Bill and Pilar are an incredible one-two punch, but this is a lot of money.

By the way - I was thinking about this today. I don't go to them with every script - I gave them 1 out of my last 3. But the one I recently gave them is a very dark urban drama (The Way It Spins) that I wrote this winter. I know this script isn't for everyone, but I wasn't getting the reaction from friends that I'd hoped and I needed to improve it. I gave it to Pilar (she was available first), made changes, then gave it to Bill and made changes. That draft won the Script Savvy contest with a score of 59 out of 60. The two of them helped the script a lot.

Hi Dana-

I actually just commented on who I use as script anaylsts on another thread so I'm going to post it here. On the timing issue: Bill Pace depends on his teaching schedule - sometimes it's quick, sometimes he's tough to get. Pilar is booked up but gets cancellations - that's how I lucked out with my recent script. Congrats on getting optioned!

------------

A few years ago, my best friend told me about a guy who he loved named Bill Pace in NY - he also teaches at the New School and his website is: www.scripteach.com. (I just went to check the website and I'm actually listed on his page). It turns out that since then, I've met several other people who swear by him too. What sets him apart is he really intuitively gets what you're going for (not matter what genre) and is able to smartly suggest changes that will help you get there. I know every analyst should be like this, but my experience found analysts who would try to push my scripts in other directions, not get me closer to what I was trying for (and missed). His notes on my scripts over the years have definitely made them better and have been very insightful. I also know some of weaknesses because of his notes and I try to work on those. His price is around $300. If you live in NY, you meet him in person for a few hours to go over his notes and review the script page by page.

A few years ago, a friend suggested Pilar Alessandra's pitching DVD when I was planning on pitching at the 2006 Screenwriting Expo. Her DVD was incredibly helpful. And since then, I'd heard people rave about her script notes. So I sent her a script this past fall and was very impressed with her insightful notes. I've sent her another since then. She's also around $300, she's in LA, and there's usually a long waiting list. Her website is www.onthepage.tv. I'm taking a class with her in NY in a few weeks.

Personally, I feel that Bill and Pilar are an incredible one-two punch, but this is a lot of money.

By the way - I was thinking about this today. I don't go to them with every script - I gave them 1 out of my last 3. But the one I recently gave them is a very dark urban drama (The Way It Spins) that I wrote this winter. I know this script isn't for everyone, but I wasn't getting the reaction from friends that I'd hoped and I needed to improve it. I gave it to Pilar (she was available first), made changes, then gave it to Bill and made changes. That draft won the Script Savvy contest with a score of 59 out of 60. The two of them helped the script a lot.

Congrats!

And the Fellowship was canceled this year. I'm very bummed. Another way to get to them is to get a script to a smaller company that has a first look deal with them.

Congrats to all of you.

All 4 of mine made the top 25%, and 3 advanced to the top 10%: a rewrite of the famaily adventure "The Junior Detectives and the Cities of Gold", new short script "Every time I go to Staten Island something bad happens...", new urban drama "The Way It Spins". (My comedy "Out of Sync" stopped here).

Now I feel like a kid who'd going to get his ass kicked after school.

I was right - you did kick my butt in Script Savvy. Congrats!

Thanks!

Don't be surprised Derrick - you'll probably win!

Congrats Brian!

You can go thru the HCD book / HCD online and the Fade In book to compile a list. The books are somewhere around $50 each (I think). You can get an HCD online subscription for $20 for the month (I think).

Another way, is to enter the Script Savvy contest ($40?)and receive their already compiled list (not sure how often it's updated - the HCD and Fade In books are updated every quarter). Creative Screenwriting also has a compiled list (also not sure how often it's updated - $20?).

A last way - this is a little more money, but takes less time is to use a query service. There are many out there. For placing the All Access contest, I won their Script Express service on www.soyouwannasellascript.com. ($50-$85). It goes out to thousands of people - some take unsolicated, many don't - it's just a huge email blast of your query. One of my scripts had great results, many requests. The other that placed, had none. It just luck (right script to the right person) and timing.

Also - all of the sources/methods I listed above are exactly the same for a manager search (they all have managers and agents).

I'm just saying that I don't know any legit agents or managers that charge a $1K fee, nor any that take 5% (not 10%, or even 20%). He is rewarding himself for signing people, but yet not rewarding himself as much for actually selling the work. Just about anyone in the business would say not to sign with someone who takes a fee. They should be making money for selling your work (or getting it produced).

I will gladly manage any writers out there who want help and I'll only take 1% of the sale - so you guys can really hit it big when I sell the work. Oh - I forgot, there's this pesky like $10K fee to set up your account in my file drawer. File folders are costly at Staples. And of course, I have to review your script and see if I'm interested.

Seriously, this is the 11/14/08 response to the e-query that I sent to agents and managers - judge for yourself:

Greetings Irin:

Thank you for the email.

Is this the first script you have completed?

If not how many others have you written and do you write in any other mediums such a TV or Published Works?

Have you had representation previously?

At 928 we represent writers, directors, and producers. We have been in business since 2004.

We are very serious about the clients we choose to represent and have expectations that they be dedicated to the work they are doing.

Our agreements are on a 1 year basis.

We charge a one time set up fee of $1,000.00 and 5% commission.

The $1,000.00 fee is a one time and when contracts are renewed it is not charged again.

We represent several well known talents including:

Daniel Yost, Award Winning Screenwriter of "Drugstore Cowboy"

Academy Award Nominee and Golden Globe Award Winning Actress-Producer Sally Kirkland "Anna", "The Sting", "The Haunted", "Coffee Date", "Adam and Steve", and "EDTV"

Emmy Winning Producer Harold Sylvester "Married With Children", "City of Angels", "Officer and a Gentleman", and "Corrina, Corrina"

Writer and Producer Jasper Cole "The Nanny", "CSI", "Touched By An Angel", "Everybody Loves Raymond", and the just announced CBS Series "The Secret Truth"

If you are interested in representation please send a PDF of the project and a resume.

After reviewing the project, we will let you know if we are interested in moving forward with representation. If this does not seem like a good fit for you, thank you for your interest and good luck.

Best regards,

JR O'Neal www.928talentmgt.com "Your Success is our Business" Literary Management 310-968-6701

They didn't require a 2 page synopsis when I submitted, but look at my postings in the comments of the contest and you'll see what happened to me and how I feel about that contest.

Thanks guys! And congrats to Geoff yet again for his recent script.

Thanks everyone!

This was for The Junior Detectives and the Cities of Gold. Don't get your expectations up now when you read it. I hate high expectations - keep them very, very low.

It does seem that I owe drinks...

Last year was the first time I made the first cut in Austin (the Second Round) and I think I heard sometime in mid-September. I received an email and also a letter in the mail. The letter told me that I made the Second Round, but hadn't advanced further. So the Semifinalists had been decided by then probably, but I'm not sure if the Finalists had been.

One out of three still gets you in the Hall of Fame.

I DIDN'T buy PAGE coverage and never have in all the years I've been entering. I've placed a number of times, including a Top 10 Family script last year. This year I went 4 for 4 into the top 25%, and 3 of those went to the top 10%.

Generally, I don't pay extra for coverage with a few exceptions, but I do like the ones that give you notes with your entry (or for a slight bit more).

I'm more wary about contests that have awards ceremonies that you have to buy a ticket for. It seems like the attendees often win, not those who couldn't make the trip. I've won some so I can't complain and I love attending for networking. So I don't know.

Congrats again!

Meeting Danny Boyle last year was pretty cool too!

Congrats Stephen!

Thanks all. Very nice of you.

You can read my family adventure one (Barb gave it a recommend, it just won Feeding Frenzy), but as far as subtext - although Barb gave it a "Y", she also said "Very little - okay for this age group". So not sure if this helps. But email me (neuroticboy@earthlink.net) if you're interested.

You caught me. I'm really Shane Black. I just wanted to see if I could get some recognition without my name attached - like Eric Clapton in Derek and the Dominos!

I do appreciate the threads though.

And my "Irin" was made up by my parents who named me after my grandfather "Isaac" - "Isaac" wasn't so hip in 70's (unless you were a bartender on the Love Boat) so my parents made up an "I" name. Seriously.

And Calliope ain't doin' half bad!

I was just teasing. I think Terry was too. Maybe not, Terry?

I don't think I'd be spending all this money and time on contests just to screw you guys. But if you want me out of the contest circuit, help me sell a script! That'll get me out for good. I swear!

Kidding. (Am I?) Maybe I shouldn't write comedy?

Did anyone else enter the Film Independent Screenwriters Lab? They were supposed to notify Friday and it takes place in August in L.A. so I was curious. If you heard, did it come via mail or e-mail?

Thanks.

You're silly!

Hey - don't know if you heard - I won A Feeding Frenzy...!

Maybe I should start one then?

I totally agree in that no one should tell you what to write. But I think Graham just wants to look at some scripts that are (supposedly) well done in the way that a great painter goes to a museum and looks at how the masters did it so that he can incorporate something into his own style. Whenever I write a script, I read similar scripts or get films on Netflix to see how other writers approached these plot problems and characters. I don't copy them, but I'm trying to see what worked and what didn't.

What I don't understand is when contests go over their deadline. Yeah, everyone submits on the last day and yeah, you got more entries than you expected. But after several years of this smae thing happening, not only should you be able to gauge that but more importantly: if I ran a contest and thought I could get the results back on say July 1st, I'd say August 1st and look like a hero when (if) the results are early!

I like this Iriny idea! LOL.

I used Pilar Alessandra's DVD on pitching and it was incredibly helpful for when I pitched at the Expo in 2006.

Congrats guys!

Thanks and congrats to Ron!

I usually write my logline before I start writing the script - it's always at the top of my outlines. The logline often goes through small changes to make it better and more accurate, but I think having it from the beginning keeps you focused on the main story.

I got it through the Creative Screenwriting Expo - check the DVDs on CS's site. I got the DVD on a friend's recommendation (wasn't familiar with Pilar at the time) and it really helped. Also got Michael Hauge's DVD through them too, but was very disappointed in his - sorry, Michael.

Mom is wrong!! Congrats!

Thanks!

I submitted a short to the recent fest that got canceled. What happened and how are you up and running again?

Is it a pitching seminar or writing/rewriting? I just took her one day rewriting seminar in NY and she was excellent.

I've shot all my shorts on digital and it's amazing. Shot the last one with the Panasonic HVX-200 (I think that's the model #?) with the P2 cards - easy workflow. Plus, we rented 35mm lenses and put them on the front of it. That gave it a nice depth of field (like film cameras). It looked amazing. Why do the cost and hassle of film for an indie short?

Oh - you're shooting a feature. Still - I love digital with the 35mm lenses.

I'm not familiar with them, but (like I said) I used the Panasonic HVX-200 because it has P2 cards that you pop right into a computer on set and can back up the footage, look at it, even edit it (on set). The workflow was amazing. Do these cameras have cards like that?

That's great Heather! Witty title.

Thanks. I appreciate it. Glad you guys are back. I had had heard only good things.

No luck for me - 0 for 3 (though one received good notes from a reader).

Awesome John - congrats! And a pat to Timothy too!

What's going on with moviebytes lately? I find a lot of the postings to be really bizarre. Strange accusations. Postings that I read several times, but still don't understand. I feel like they're in another language!

There was Bobbette accusing Harvey of being a poser. Evie thinking Paula accused her of being Timothy. I'm not sure I know who I am anymore! I even accused myself of being a Timothy poser this morning.

But I have to admit, it's like my wife has some really, really bad reality TV on and I just walked into the bedroom. I'm making fun of it, but yet at the same time, I can't look away!

(I'll sit back and wait for the postings of whoever I somehow insulted...)

You mean the Screenwriters Lab, right? They actually started sending them out a few weeks back - I think based on the order they received them, I got my email on July 9th.

Did you advance too? Have you (or do you know anyone who has) made it to the next round, and what happens then?

Yes - my new urban drama "The Way It Spins" made the Second Round.

A few years ago, my script "Every time I go to Staten Island something bad happens..." also made that round, but that was as far as it went.

My fingers are crossed.

"Yammering" is the perfect word!

I'm glad I started this thread because it's totally what I'm talking about. We ended up with some some jokes, some camaraderie, some tension and a half-wolf, half-mermaid girl. What more could I have asked for?! Lol.

Congrats all!

I came up empty, but my collaborator (John Barlowe) placed with Brotherly Love. I'm glad because when I read that script, I asked him about collaborating. It's a great script and I hope it goes far (along with the MBers).

Congrats Terry and William! Almost an MB sweep?

Wait - not a sweep. Different categories.

Terry - we'll meet again (with Jean Hunter) in the Family category. This time I've trained and am ready for you!

(Congrats!)

I've just always enjoyed telling stories - always have since I was a little kid.

Terry - Serena's Thunder is actually a horse, so Calliope better watch it. That horse will trample my Junior Detectives!

I entered two of my recent ones - an urban drama and a broad comedy.

I'm a huge believer in producing your own stuff and getting it done. And I didn't go to film school. I know features can be pricey and it's scary if you have no idea what you're doing (not that that has stopped me - lol!) But shooting a short is a great experience, gived you another way to get into the industry and meet people (at festivals), and your writing will improve so much you won't believe it - more visual, writing in "shots" without saying it.

Thanks Gordy. Congrats on the 2009 winner (great title!)

When "Every time I go to Staten Island something bad happens..." made the Top 5 of 2,400 in the 2007 BlueCat, it was the first time I made the Finals in any contest. It was huge. Gordy met me for burritos in the Village and it was just incredible to chat with someone who really believed in your ability and your script.

This is (in my opinion) what the contests are for. Finding people who can really help you or champion your work. I don't care about winning another copy of Final Draft (no offense FD!) In the past two years, Gordy and I have been touch quite a bit and he's been a huge source of encouragement and advice. Not so bad coming from someone who won the Waldo Salt (which I dream of).

Just today, I got a call from a manager who read "Every time I go to Staten Island something bad happens..." He called me on a Sunday and is going to send me a contract tomorrow to rep that script because he really thought highly of it. How did he first hear about it? From some posting about BlueCat on web.

To mix threads here: this is also what I think Jim Mercurio has the possibility of being. He promises to get the top 3 scripts out there for Champion. His connections in the business (from Creative Screenwriting, the Expo, and producing Hard Scrambled) should allow him to do this. Hopefully, he'll pick 3 scripts he can really get behind and do his best to push them. That's the only prize that he's listed that matters.

Not enough contests do this. And that's what we need the most. No one in this business wants to stick their neck out. So most of the contests are not helpful in that way. Gordy has a track record of standing behind people and helping them (see his website). That's the most important thing as far as the contests are concerned in my opinion. I'd take that over $10K. (Let's face it, I'd probably pay $10K for it).

As for the coverage - I've said this a bunch of times. I don't understand all of the commotion about a reader's opinion. If you think that readers at agencies and prodcos are any different, you're wrong. They are all subjective and all have their biases. Some even miss things. I'm not excusing mistakes, but I'm just saying they try their best, give their opinions, and are human. I know because I was a reader for several years. Guess what - I passed on a script that eventually won the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance. Was I wrong? I'm willing to bet that most of you didn't see it. The bottom line is that it's one opinion in a very subjective business. Take what you can from the coverage, and use it. Throw away the rest. It was a free look into what the reader thought. You have nothing to lose and can just throw it away. Have I mentioned that it was FREE?

Terry - I'll have to steal a piece of gum from each of you to get on everyone's bad side - lol!

Thanks for all the nice words. And Gordy - really cool of you to say all that. Thanks.

-irin

I've heard that it's better to have a "thing" and ultimately that's what you get rewrite work for. Like being a "comedy guy" or a "horror/suspense guy". Though I know you can be something bigger like a "dialogue guy".

I write a variety of genres and it worries me in a way that I do, but I just write whatever script interests me. After all, I go to lots of different types of movies.

Julia - were you at Austin last year? Did we meet?

I was a Second Rounder last year and hung out with Heather and John. I hope to make it this year (made a Driskill reservation already to make sure). It would be great to have a moviebyters meal. Us and Ron Howard?!

I didn't get an email - looks like I'm out too.

I hope so too!

I'm working on Pilar's notes on my Christmas script as we speak (okay, I'm procrastinating) and they are incredibly helpful (as always).

I was a big fan of his two books. His second book was really useful in my recent urban drama. My collaborator John Barlowe uses the 1st book all the time. Never got to meet him or hear him speak unfortunately.

Great news Timothy - congrats!

I entered my recent scripts in The Movie Deal.

Congrats Mike!

Who is Dan?!

No way! I've wanted to write The Breakfast Club since I saw it in the 80's. Totally a hero of mine.

That's more like a tagline than a logline.

(This may not paste well...)

Talent Agent:

International Creative Management (ICM), John Burnham, 10250 Constellation Blvd., 7th Floor, Los Angeles, CA 90067, USA, Phone: 310-550-4059, Fax: 310-550-4055, http://www.icmtv.com/, jburnham@icmtalent.com

Manager:

Morra, Brezner, Steinberg and Tenenbaum Entertainment (MBST), Stephen Tenenbaum, 345 North Maple Dr., Ste. 200, Beverly Hills, CA 90210, USA, Phone: 310-385-1820, Fax: 310-385-1834, http://www.mbst.com/, Meegan@MBST.com

Publicist: 42West, Leslee Dart, 220 W. 42nd St., 12th Floor, New York, NY 10036, USA, Phone: 212-277-7555, Fax: 212-277-7550, http://www.42west.net, leslee.dart@42west.net

Actually, the company I used to work for (Andrew Lauren Productions) produced a documentary on the "world's oldest bank" robber called "This Is Not a Robbery" - you might want to check it out because it might give you some ideas:

http://pro.imdb.com/title/tt1015241/

Not sure if you can get a DVD (I don't have one). It screened at Tribeca last year.

Yeah - he only budgeted his money to last until he was 100 years old.

Okay - we shouldn't be writing the script - lol!

I'm out. Curious if anyone else had the following as their comment:

"A meandering plot and underdeveloped characters were challenges that kept your script from progressing."

Awesome Stephen. Congrats!

Congrats William!

It's all subjective, but what I found strange was that I got that comment for my very dark urban drama. And the exact same comment word for word for a Will Ferrell type broad comedy that my collaborator wrote. Just because they are different writers (though I helped on the broad comedy) and different genres doesn't mean they can't have the same issues, but I was curious if that was the standard "line" or a reader's opinion.

Typos aside, I don't mind being grouped with John A. - so no worries there.

One other thing - I don't understand why contests have this category for format and typos. Let's face it - we all use screenwriting software - it formats itself. I've written 13 scripts, I'm sure my format is spot on (not that everything is agreed upon as industry standards with certain things - like an AP Stylebook - anyway, all that matters is that the reader understands). And I am willing to bet anyone $500 that they will not find more than 3 typos in any of my scripts. So why do I receive "good"?

Beyond that, there are many contests that have format/typos as a category and often it weighs as much as structure or characters or dialogue. That's just crazy. I was a reader and no one gets more annoyed than me when I read a script with bad format or many typos. That's why I check my scripts. It's like handing in a resume with a big coffee stain on it. It really annoys ther person reading it.

BUT - as a reader, if I were to pass on a script solely due to typos, I'd really be doing my employers a diservice. Should I pass on Casablanca because there are typos? I should be annoyed, but not pass on it. How can typos be weighed as much as plot. If a script has bad plot, then I should pass!

Again, I'm not saying not to proof your script. $500 bet to anyone who wants to read one of my scripts and try to find more than 3 typos. I could use the money!

Typo on "disservice" - just noticed as I read it back - lol!

I'll have to "pass" on my post.

Congrats!

The first thing a reader does after looking at the title is flip to the back to see the page count. You get paid the same for a 90 page script as a 120 page script and it's an extra half hour out of your life. So why rub the reader the wrong way?

When a script is over 120, you immediately have the attitude of: there had better not be 1 page I can cut here or I'll be pissed. You can say it's a bad attitude, but when you attend a film that's 3 hours and drags, you also say: why wasn't it 2 hours?

When it's well done, you don't even notice - you just watch. When it's poorly done, you notice the issues.

It's "Irin", but you can call me anything as long as you agree with my posts!

You're all silly. Especially Ismail.

It's under "Seeking Film and TV Projects" on 7/5/09.

I'm curious what happens - please let me/us know. Though I fell off a turnip truck last week.

I had never used a blast e-query service until I won it for two scripts from All Access (SellAScript.com). I got a number of requests for one, but none for the other. So it seems that people do read them and you have to get lucky that the right person sees the right logline. It costs some money (if you don't win it), but it seemed to have results with virtually no effort on my part.

I don't think you even need "back to scene" because it seems like you have characters in a location and a hologram pops up. It's no a new scene or location. It would be the same thing as if they were in a garage and a car drove inside. You would say "A car enters the garage and stops in front of them..."

I would just describe it as a new object in the scene. I don't think anything is happening inside the hologram, right? You can use caps if you want to highlight the hologram of the house.

That's my opinion.

I'm confused. Anyone can register with the WGA for $22 - you don't have to be big time. But I recommend copyrighting. Sure it's a bit more ($35 I think), but it's forever, not just 10 years. And it's a copyright, which is legal. WGA is just "proof." Also, the copyright office is finally online so once you have done it once, all your info is saved and it's almost as quick as WGA. But yes, you have to wait months to get your copyright (though it starts from the date you submit).

If I make drastic changes, I copyright again, but you don't have to for smaller stuff.

Evie-

You can upload a file to the WGA now. It's easier and quicker if you don't want to mail it in. Besides, some of those postal workers are ninjas in disguise!

Thanks! I looked quickly - did anyone else make it so far?

Congrats Paula!

I don't mnd announcements being late (though the contests should be able to gauge by now how long it will take or should be smart enough to give extra time).

What annoys me are contests that extend AFTER the deadline. This has happened to me several times in the last year, where I've submitted on the last day (after double checking on the website) and then the contest was extended for a week. Meanwhile, I was in the middle of drafts and wanted the extra week. That's not fair and wrong (and annoying).

Thanks all.

This is exactly what I was complaining about in the other thread! Last night, I double checked the website and withoutabox and submitted my latest script on the last day of the deadline. I'm in the middle of rewrite that will take another week or two.

Now the contest gets extended after the deadline passed. I would've waited. I'm being penalized for actually submitting before the deadline while others get extra time. It's not right. I'm going to call them. And from now on, when this happens, I'm never entering those contests again.

I spoke to someone who told me to send an email. I'll let you know what happens, but if I don't get an extension, this will be my last Expo entry. And that's going to be my new rule for these kinds of extensions. It's one thing to extend a contest for everyone (who wants to pay a little more), it's another to change the deadline after it has passed. I think that's unfair. Do you think I'm crazy?

I'm not tweaking - I had an appointment with an analyst that finally came up and just got the notes, but haven't had the time to execute all the changes yet. If possible (depending on the deadlines), I like to get the most recent version out. But when the "final" deadline came up last night, I knew I had to just send the last version. I don't think it's right to then extend it the very next day for two weeks.

Thanks Tom, but I can't take credit - my collaborator (John Barlowe) came to me with the story idea and the title. I hate that John Barlowe! (But seriously, I'm very excited about "MIss Christmas").

Here's the response from Pasha Mckenley of the Expo...

Dear Irin,

I understand your point regarding deadlines- but these decisions are made by our publisher- I never know what he is going to decide and have no control over it. My biggest advice is to always be ready with a perfect draft ready to go.

If you resubmit your new script- will be subject to a new entry fee to uploaded it to the websites since it will be considered a new submission. All sales are final so there are no refunds. If you do decide to resubmit a new version, please let me know and I will delete the old one from the server.

Best,

Pasha

"Miss Christmas" - family Christmas comedy

To reunite her divorced parents, a young girl who has missed Christmas for the third straight year, enlists the help of her goofy uncle to persuade Santa's people to recreate Christmas for her in the summer.

(I know that's a bit wordy now that we added in the "goofy uncle," but we wanted to show the part of the co-lead because people are looking for family films where they can star Ben Stiller, Jack Black, Will Ferrell, etc. and not just unknown kids).

I'm doing one more rewrite on notes from Bill Pace - this will take another week or so. Then my agent will send it out after Labor Day. I'm very hopeful because I think it's a fun, marketable script. Though I've been wrong before!

10. We're crazy.

Look who's talking - Anita and Michael. You guys are all over the place!

The analogy that popped into my head is showing up to class with your term paper, the professor collects them, and THEN he announces that if you DIDN'T finish and hand it in, you have two more weeks to do so.

But I don't want to rehash all of this (or sue).

Pasha (of Expo) said she'd pass along the info to her boss...

Sorry I gave a silly answer above.

I just like telling stories. Film is great medium and the more I learn about it, the more I love writing it, but I'd love to write a book, even a musical someday.

CONGRATS JOHN! That's awesome news! Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

I haven't heard either - how did they contact you?

My letter will have gone to my mailbox in the city so I won't find out for a few days - the suspense is killing me!

But last year I finally made the Second Round (before being cut) and attended the festival for the first time ever. I can't recommend it enough! I had a great time, made great friends who I still keep in touch with, even a few connections, advice led to me getting an agent, and I met Danny Boyle (among many others).

And Todd - I didn't know you were on here! I hope all is well.

-irin

Here's to writing what you're passionate about.

Anything you want to read, just let me know. If you have a new one and want to do a swap, I'm cool with that too. I just have one script here on my "pile."

Congrats Ashley!

Nope - not me for Nicholl this year. But yes, I have advanced to the next round of Sundance.

Thanks and congrats Stephen!

Congrats Stephen. Kicking butt!

Thanks Julia!

Thanks!

Thanks for the honesty, Heather. I've never entered, but it was on my list. Even if I enter, at least I know it's not worth the trip to LA.

That's a really bad review from the big winner. Looks like they're off my list.

I'm pretty sure it means you're a Finalist. Not sure why a full email wasn't sent too. But you get a pass to the festival if you attend and invited to the awards dinner where you can win an award - though there's a ticket price (for charity) for that and it's a red carpet, black tie gala.

That's ridiculous. I've used there query/e-mail blast services when I won them in contests and sellascript was reliable. But if I were you, I'd call my credit card quickly and put a stop on that charge.

Congrats Cat and Terry. Same result for my "Junior Detectives."

Heather's right. Yours is more like a tagline: "In space no one can hear you scream." It's catchy but it's for the movie poster, not submissions. Right now, I have no idea what your script is about so I woudln't request it. And that's what the logline is for.

250 pages? I don't know anyone who will read that. Is it a trilogy?

Congrats Heather!

I'll just give you a quick answer, but basically when you write the inner thoughts, you're NOT writing a screenplay. The screenplay format (by definition) doesn't have character (or author) thoughts, only what can be seen or heard on the screen. It seems like you're trying to write a novel instead. The screenplay is just the blueprint of what will be shot for the film, nothing else.

You also said that the story can be told in 120 minutes. If so, then you need to take out the inner thoughts and tell it in 120 minutes (pages). That's the only screenplay someone will look at, not a 250 page one with thoughts.

But essentially, you've touched on the difficulty (and fun) of writing in the screenplay format. As a writer, you have to figure out ways to get the inner thoughts on the screen. If a guy is constantly pining over his ex-girlfriend, just writing his inner thoughts on the screenplay ("John thinks about his ex-girlfriend"), doesn't get that on the screen, so the audience has no idea that he's thinking about his ex-girlfriend. He could pull out a picture of his ex-girlfriend and stare at it every two pages, but that would be very cliche and obvious. So how do you show it? That's the difficulty and skill of writing screenplays.

The director, actors, set designer, DP, composer, etc. also all have to take the inner thoughts that they see in the scripts (of the characters and the themes) and bring those out in subtle ways were the audience will get it - and that's some of the difficulty of their jobs too.

I haven't heard anything yet.

No problem.

You can find lots of scripts online at Drew's Script-O-Rama: www.script-o-rama.com Click on "film scripts" on the left side and then they're listed alphabetically.

They said they'd keep it in mind for the future, but I could only get the next draft in if I paid again.

Need I say - the next (and "last") draft is done (before this extended deadline) and my collaborator is just reading it for any final notes. I would've liked to have this draft in, but I'm surely not paying twice. Disappointing because no matter what it does, you always think the next draft could've done a little better.

I like that idea too, but it might be too big of an undertaking.

Now if it was "North Florida" then that would be another thing.

How did you find that list?

Congrats to all!

Yet again! Extending AFTER the deadline. What is going on this year?

Luckily, it was my last draft, but I think the lesson is to wait out the deadlines from now on if the script is almost done.

I hate that Evers guy.

Those are great suggestions Cat.

What I always do as a last step for my script is to read it really, really slowly (it takes about 4 hours) and make sure I literally read every word and check for inconsistencies.

Congrats Peter and William!

Wow - great news Stephen!

Vampires are going to protest Twilight.

And it's a realistic fact that vampires don't reflect in the mirror and can't be in sunlight. People (and vampires) should write what they know. Only vampires should be writing vampire scripts and books, not people like Anne Rice and Joss Whedon. They don't understand.

I thought it was an awesome article too, but people seem mixed about it - some hate it.

I met Herschell last year at Austin and it was one of the coolest moments for me. I was a commodities floor broker in trading cotton and orange juice for many years - Herschell's the guy who wrote Trading Places and was quoted almost daily on the trading floor. "Turn those machines back on!"

Who's running the NW Screenwriting Group now that Aadip moved to L.A.?

Stephen Hoover's Horror Comic took 2nd place in the Silver Screenwriting Comp! Congrats again!

My wife and I chatted about it today and I'm not going to go. With her due date just 2 weeks after Austin, I'd really hate to miss my son's birth. I'd also hate to miss Ron Howard, but I think Ron will forgive me.

I would've liked to hang out again Heather, and meet Cat, Mike and Julia. But I'm planning on coming to Austin in 2010 so hopefully you guys will want to come back (I'm sure you will).

Heather - I would've liked to meet Stewart too. Bummer. I can't believe the timing but I guess I'm partly to blame.

Mike - I was really intimidated when I went to the Expo a few years ago and was worried that Austin would be like that - tons of writers trying to talk to the few "connections." But Austin was so laid back. Other writers helped me to talk to people in the business and vice versa. There was no "cattiness" and everyone was so nice. I made so many friends.

Julia - Austin would be a great name, but we have to name him with an "E" name after my dad (Elliot). I want to make sure that we come up with a name that no one can make fun of at all, so we were thinking "Ennis Tucker"...

My best friend (Robert Clark) started writing scripts again this year and also made the drama category with the usual suspects. That is some stacked category! Congrats everyone.

Elmo is my daughter's pick! My friends have had some good choices, from E-Harmony to The Edge!

Amanda - you and Steven have to meet up with all the moviebyters for me.

Why didn't he speak up more in the films?

No worries - I was nervous going to Austin last year too.

Congrats Majory!

Oops - Marjory.

Thanks and congrats!

Actually, Miss Christmas is my new one with my Collaborator John Barlowe, but he keeps getting left off even though I have him as a co-author on withoutabox.

Dan - I believe the idea of that statement is that someone can't say "oh, I've given that script to my cousin and so I don't own it anymore so you can't list my script as a winner on your website." I think that's it - I'd have to look at it again though.

I love Holes, but it also got made because it was an adaptation. I write lots of "nice" scripts too (but the occasional "not nice" one too).

I'm down with that. You can say the original title was "To Live, Press 1; To Hear Other Options, Press 2" but it was my idea to trim it to "To Live, Press 1"...

Thanks John - I didn't even see that. Congrats to you, Mike, Jean and the gang.

And D. Santiago!

Congrats Cheryl!

Congrats Nathan!

Congrats Stephen!

I've never heard that rule before, but I don't like big blocks of description. After a few sentetnces, if there's more to say, it's usually about something else happening so I start a new paragraph. I like lots of quick bits in separate paragraphs to break it up if it's action, even if they are short sentences. This also more closely gets you to one page = one minute.

Congrats Stephen and everyone else!

Sounds like a bunch of red flags. At the very least - you shouldn't pay anyone (esp. their editor) anything.

Just got an email about the CWA Semifinalists (top 100 of 2,000):

Congrats to Mike M., John A., Jean, Marjory and anyone I missed. (Sorry, I made it too).

I got an email from StoryPros today. I've heard you guys mention them, but have never entered before. And was wondering if I should enter.

But it got me thinking about which contests are really worth it. Let's face it, most of us have Movie Magic or Final Draft. Yeah - it's nice to get an inktip posting, but you can get that for around the same price as the entry fee. There are, of course, other prizes from cash to really cool things.

But the main thing (possibly the only thing) I'm looking for (and I assume most of you are too) is for the industry to read my script (producers, agents, managers, etc.)

Which contests have gotten you the most requests from winning or placing in them? How many requests have you gotten, if you remember?

---------

Script Savvy - although a monthly contest has been the best for me. My romantic comedy "Yard Sale" was an Honorable Mention last year and got a few requests, and my urban drama "The Way It Spins" won this year and got a few requests (and it's a very dark script so it's tougher to get requests). Donna just came to me with another request.

I had two scripts place in the Top 10 of All Access recently and as part of their prize package, I won their e-query blasts. The family adventure script "The Junior Detectives and the Cities of Gold" got many requests, the broad comedy "Out of Sync" got none. But again, this is a service you can pay for without placing in the contest. I don't think I got any directly from All Access itself.

Suzanne DeLaurentiis of Cinema City got my family adventure "The Junior Detectives" to a bunch of people after it took 2nd Place last year. And she also helped Jean Hunter's 1st Place script to get out there.

Gordy Hoffman of BlueCat got my Top 5 urban drama "Every time I go to Staten Island something bad happens..." to a few people.

Attending the Austin Film Fest and networking with my 2nd Rounder helped me to get some reads.

Those are the better "request results" in recent memory for me that I can think of. Of course, it depends on the genre and logline, and what people are looking for at that moment. But I'm curious where people are getting more requests as those are the conetsts I want to be sure to enter.

Thanks.

Congrats Robert - sorry I missed ya!

I noticed that - thanks John!

What happened to Fade In? I was looking at the upcoming contest deadlines and Fade In is coming up, but they haven't announced last year's finalists yet. Anyone hear anything?

Two people have mentioned Screenplay Festival, which I've never entered. I'm going to enter so they owe you guys a commission! Thanks for the tip.

Congrats again guys!

They're not always required. In fact, when you submit via and agent or a manager, you don't sign one. Many companies have them just so they don't get sued over every similar idea that comes their way.

Thanks Nancy and John. Yeah - I've entered TrackingB, but didn't place - though I've heard good things and will enter my new scripts this year.

Lotta red flags here too. Something I do when I want to check a company is type the name and the word "scam" into yahoo and google, like:

"Bogus Entertainment, scam"

...to see what comes up. If you want, I can call and play dumb - say I'm a line producer and was called by some writer (fake name) who wants me to put together some stuff but they had no idea what they were talking about. Can you tell me what I need to prepare for them? - and see the reaction. But I think we know the answer anyway.

Thanks Michael and thanks for your honesty. I really think this is an important point too.

And Todd - I took the advice of you and others and entered a few scripts in Screenplay Festival. I wasn't even familiar with them before this. So I'm glad I asked these questions.

It's just becoming more and more expensive and I want to know what will help me start my career because that's the goal. Paying $50 to enter and winning an online placement that costs about $50 just doesn't appeal anymore. Winning another copy of Final Draft (I use Movie Magic anyway) doesn't appeal. I want some exposure and that should be the point of these contests.

(I don't think Tracking B does shorts, but let me know if they do.)

Stephen - look who's talking!

James - what other things do you do to get out there?

To continue on Paula's stuff - yeah, good point on "script sales" vs. "requests" - and I'd also add in signings (or even requests) from agents and decent managers. I do have an agent, but it took 10 years. And an agent or decent manager signing is a big step to help get exposure.

Something that I've been surprised at and I may've mentioned here before. I always thought the contest circuit would be a sort of minor leagues to get called up. I'm not saying the industry should care about some minor contest winner. But certain scripts/writers pop up time and time again with top results in the top contests. Why aren't smaller prodcos looking at these (companies that get the "leftover" scripts that have already been passed arouind)? Why aren't young agents and managers who are looking to hip-pocket a client looking at these? That's what I would do. It seems that sometimes I mention major contests to industry people and they've never heard of them (beyond Nicholl and Austin). I know no one wants to stick their neck out, but I would think this is a way to get first dibs on a decent property/voice/etc. And I'm just talking about scripts and writers that have been validated many times. Often it seems the industry isn't on this circuit at all. Is that true?

And yeah - Paula - not much selling due to the current market and the tendency for presold material (again, keeping that neck safe). I also agree about directing. I've directed 3 shorts and one feature - won awards, screened festivals. I have a short I'd like to shoot when I can. And I have an idea for a low budget drama which I'm going to write this winter and consider shooting myself. I'm also going to make a reel this fall so I can also push myself as a director. I've currently got a script in the running for the 2010 Sundance Lab.

I feel like we're rocking the boat now with this thread. I'm waiting for some contests to send threatening letters - lol! But as someone who just had his 80th contest placement, is outlining his 14th script, and has been writing screenplays for 11 years (though not seriously at first) - but has just had one close call to selling, I think it's time to ask these questions.

Thanks Marjory and Julia.

Glad you had the same experience with Script Savvy. Pretty crazy from a "smaller" monthly contest. Donna really seems to work hard to help. And for some reason I think she's in Texas, not LA - but I could be wrong.

I pitched at the Expo a few years ago and the contest results gave me something to validate the scripts. Also, the contests I think caught my agent's eye when she received my e-query. As well, I should say they've given me the confidence and validation to keep going and keep learning because my first few scripts were horrible. I've attended festivals and met lots of friends through all of this. So there are some good things. But now, I'm looking for a bit more (and others have told me the same).

On Julia's mention - I haven't used Script PIMP or ScriptShark (other than the contests) in many years. Which have you used of these and others and have they helped get your script out there?

Sorry Michael - just missed your post when I was typing mine - but yes, I'm really thinking about these script services now as an alternative.

Please let us know any experiences you've had...

And the "I get knocked down, but I get up again" chorus to Tubthumping is fitting.

Count me in for: sending a script out too early.

But I've been in two writing groups and they've both been amazing (one is still going on) and helped me so much.

Congrats again John!

Well said Joseph.

Yes and yes too.

I attended last year - just the final day though because we had a newborn - and had fun. I lucked out and won Best Short Screenplay. At the closing night party, I met a guy named John Barlowe, and we exchanged scripts. We're now collaborators - two scripts done and two being outlined. So I'm very glad I went.

So John and I will definitely be attending. Both of our scripts have made the cut (and one of my other scripts has as well). It'll be neat to go back to the place where we met.

I don't know how many days I can go for because my wife is pregnant again and due just before the festival. So we'll have a newborn and 15 month old at that time. But it takes me half an hour to get there so I should be able to at least make the final day, if not more.

But we should exchange info when it gets closer and meet up...

I'm with you too Cheryl. I thought my latest (the Christmas script) didn't need my usual analysts - I'd nailed it. I went to one of them just to see - the notes really helped the script. Went to the other - new notes, also improved the script. Guess I didn't nail it after all!

Yeah - that's a tagline, not a logline.

Huh? We're not being picky, but a logline is a sentence (or two) to describe what the film is about (like what would appear in your Guide on your cable TV, or what you'd tell your friends), and a tagline is the catchy bit to generate interest on a poster of a film (If Adventure Had A Name It Would Be Indiana Jones, In Space No One Can Hear You Scream, etc.)

If a producer asks for a logline and you send your tagline, he might be annoyed.

Nothing wrong with your tagline though.

John Arends advanced in a very tough Drama category! Congrats.

Thanks - I like this new sharing of how the contests are helping (or not helping).

Congrats Jesse and Sarah (sorry I missed you guys)!

I also entered a few in Screenplay Festival. When I got my confirmation, I told the guy that people (didn't mention names) were speaking highly on moviebytes so that's why I entered. He was thankful to you guys, but didn't want to come on the board to personally say thanks as it might look biased.

Any "expert," analyst, friend, etc. who pushes your script in a direction that you don't want is a waste of time (and money), and not good at what they're supposed to do (help you get what you're going for). I've used a few analysts like that in the past unfortunately.

Stephen - I actually took Beverly Hills off my list (was going to enter this year for the first time) because of all the bad opinions on some previous thread.

Ron - Shooting something is a huge undertaking - it'll take as long to shoot a 10 page short (planning, shooting, etc.) as it will to write a full length script - and even longer to edit. Then about a year and a half of festival submissions - which are as tough to figure out as screenplay contests. But with all the work - a lot of fun, great seeing your work screened, incredible to meet people at festivals, etc. Plus, your writing will improve and you'll be trying to break in to the industry in another way as well. I recommend it.

Paula - Yeah, I totally agree about the sales/options.

Thanks and congrats Stephen!

Thanks to you guys too for all of the info in this thread. I've learned a lot as well. (Funny to see it in the moviebytes email).

I totally forgot about Kairos, Heather - and am going to now send my Christmas script there.

George - I hear you and that's why I started the thread. But in defense of the contests, they helped me to see that I was improving, gave me validation to keep going, got me invited to festivals where I've made great contacts and friends, and if not for being able to mention the contest wins and placements, I wouldn't have gotten my agent - who's actively sending my scripts to places I had no access to.

Stephen - you're the man. Congrats!

It just silly because they make it tougher and tougher to attend. There's no reason the deadline can't be a little earlier with announcements a month before the Expo - giving those who place more time to make arrangements to attend. At this point, have pitch tickets already gone on sale? If I place, I'd like to pitch - why make that difficult? Should I even attend if I place high in the contest, but all the picth slots are already filled? You know what I mean?

Heather is the one you have to watch out for in Kairos (they don't like me)!

Sorry John, but that's incredible! Top 30!

Congrats Stephen!

It would be great to meet up, Heather. I'll need a script to do well to convince the pregnant wife.

Just QFs though? A week and a half from the Expo?

Me too, Patrick.

I was contacted by Adam a while ago. Seemed like a good guy, but I wasn't sure if his notes would be good, plus I already have 2 people I trust. Good to know that you liked his notes.

But transitions, I don't think they meant adding "..." I think they meant transitions (audio or visual) so that one scene flows into the next, so that it doesn't feel like just a bunch of choppy scenes thrown together.

This shouldn't be done all the time, better if used sparingly and when it works. But of course, all scenes should feel like they follow the one before in a logical way.

Some examples of transitions: Audio:

Jane walks out of the room and pulls the door behind her.

SLAM!

Ext. Parking Lot - Day

SLAM!

John kicks his car door closed.

Or: Visual:

Jane watches Law & Order on TV. A crimimal runs from the detective.

Ext. Street - Night

John runs down the block as a cop chases him.

Or: Overlapping dialogue:

JANE: I really hate you!

JOHN: I hate you too!

LISA (O.S.): I love you!

Int. Restaurant - Night

Lisa admires the engagement ring from her boyfriend.

LISA: I really love you.

(Okay - these are lame, but you get the idea.)

That's a different note than what you originally said: "A reviewer told me to use more transitions." The note seems more specific to that one moment. I think Patrick is right.

I think Patrick was right then - it seems that they wanted to be able to quickly identify when the script jumps to the past or back to the present. On screen, you can do something visual, but in the script it might've been tougher to tell for the reader.

I just received an email. My "The Way It Spins" made it. And I saw Stephen Hoover and Joseph Kenny on the list - congrats! Who did I miss?

There seem to be a little over a hundred in the main group - I did a quick glance though.

Thanks and congrats to all!

Congrats TJ!

That's the CS Open, not the Expo Screenplay Comp.

Yeah - forgot to tell you that, Cat. Pilar has a great DVD. I used her pitching ideas when I pitched at the Expo - but the Expo ones were quicker pitches (at least the ones I did) than what I heard at the pitch contest in Austin. So you might take her ideas and then add a little bit. Or - I may've not picthed right at the Expo - lol!

Is Sanchez Dan's evil (or good) twin?

That's one of the reasons I got tired of TS. That guy is an idiot.

By the way, I added you (Cat) as one of my favorites, but I don't have any scripts up there. I took down my rom-com (Yard Sale) when I signed with an agent and she was going to send them out. It seemed silly to have it posted where someone could find a negative comment, even if it was from some random person. (Yard Sale was in the Top 10 for a while until one guy trashed it and it dropped).

As many as you want to pay for.

My "Yard Sale" is a bit different - it's a rom-com with a scavenger hunt:

A woman who saves everything decides to sell the items that remind her of her recent ex-boyfriend at a yard sale. But when her "ex" decides to come back, she must find all the items before he realizes that she sold them.

It was my first feature script that placed in the contests and people seemed to really like it, but couldn't get someone to make it (yet).

Stephen - you're killing the contests with Horror Comic! Congrats again! Are you flying out to Expo?

Also - from around 110 quarterfinalists to top 5 - was there anything else in between? Anyone get any other emails?

Thanks. Yeah - cheap to produce. A few "just misses" but I let it go for now and figured when I sell something else, I'll get Yard Sale back out there again.

I figure they contacted the Top 5 this morning (that's when Stephen got his email). I think we're out. D'oh!

Congrats Stephen!

Actually, Dan Gomez has been wanting to pay for your script services!

Thanks! Congrats Stephen, TJ and others!

Those are big plugs by John. That's the kind of stuff I was talking about in the earlier thread.

I think I had a previous posting about this, but I'll give you the quick answer...

I bought the Fade In rep guide ($55?) and a month of HCD online ($20?). I then compiled a list of agents and managers from those sources what would take queries via email. (There are other sources like Script Savvy and Creative Screenwriting too). I ended up with 110 places to query. I wrote an e-query and sent it to those places (sent them individually, not as a group). I managed to get an agent. I got very lucky in my timing and the right script to the right person. But this is a good way to handle it. It'll cost about $75 and take 2 days. Also, you can get bigger lists from some of those sources that send out a huge blast - most won't look at it, but you never know. They do the work and there are more on the lists, but it costs more.

Congrats Marleine!

"Mr. Returns" said nice things about me. What did I do right (or wrong) - lol!

Not to make it more confusing, but I've found mistakes on imdb.pro for smaller companies - it think because people in a company have to make the changes so if you're going out of business, the last thing on your mind is changing your imdb listing. HCD seems to be updated too, but isn't always 100%.

Here's the email I just sent to Pasha and the editor of CS. I'm done with Expo and disappointed:

How to save the Expo Screenwriting Competition&

The title above may be throwing you off. You may not think the Expo Screenwriting Competition needs saving. But trust me, the word of mouth via email and on the boards (moviebytes, done deal pro, etc.) has been scathing. I'm only taking the time to write this out of disappointment on what the contest was and can be.

I was a Quarterfinalist in 2006 and attended the Expo. I was also a Quarterfinalist this year. If you asked me just two years ago to name the top 5 contests I'd want to place at the top of, Expo would've been one of those. But now, I'm taking the Expo off my list and don't plan to enter again unless huge changes are made.

The Expo Screenwriting Comp has the unique ability to really help up-and-coming writers at the Expo events (such as the Golden Pitch). When I pitched in 2006, it was a big plus to mention that I was a Quarterfinalist in the contest.

How things have changed: This year (and in other recent years), the Expo Comp contest placements were not announced on time or with enough notice for out-of-towners to attend. This year, the Quarterfinalists were announced 8 days before the Expo. The Semifinalists were announced the day of the Expo (and by email, the day after). And the Finalists were announced 2 days before the Expo. I've also been told that Suzanne's Prize was not even awarded at the award ceremony and still has to be decided. This is embarrassing. This competition has been around for many years and you should know the approximate amount of submissions, and how long it will take to review them and decide on the winners.

More importantly, you are not giving what was promised — and the most important thing of all. I would love to deposit $20,000 in my bank account, but I think most serious writers would agree that they entered because of the promise of industry connections at the Expo, not the $20K. You did not give Semifinalists and Finalists (or even Quarterfinalists) a chance to make use of this exposure at the Expo, as you promised.

There are many festivals and awards ceremonies and it's difficult to have the time and money for all of them. Many writers wait to see how they place before deciding to attend. But that wasn't possible with the Expo. How many Semifinalists and Finalists attended the awards and the Expo this year? How many that live outside of LA? Were they able to buy pitch tickets after they found out that they had placed in the Expo Comp?

Another bad decision was when the Expo Comp extended its deadline after it had passed. This was unfair to those who submitted on the final day. Was this just an attempt to bring in more money? It sure seems like it. And it was done at the expense of the future Finalists.

The rushing of the contest makes writers fear that the decisions were made quickly and that many scripts didn't get a fair read. This rushing can also be seen in the sloppiness of typos both on the Expo website and in emails about the Comp (notice the 2008 logo on all 2009 emails, for example).

Here's what I would do if I were running the Expo Comp (and what should be done):

1. The main deadline would be moved up to May 1st. Let's face it — most writers are looking at one deadline all year: the Nicholl May 1st deadline. So May 1st isn't a stretch. There are never any extensions to the Nicholl and writers have all year to work toward it.

2. There would be a late and FINAL deadline of June 1st - period. This deadline would be posted from the beginning, have a higher fee and would not be extended for any reason whatsoever. If the Expo Comp is worried about not getting enough entries to pay the $20K prize, then that prize should be lower — maybe post a $10K winner prize and $2K genre winners prizes, and these can always be raised later (no one would complain about that). But the main thing is the announcement of Finalists one month prior to the Expo and nothing should stop that from happening.

3. Announcements: The Quarterfinalists would be announced (emails and on the website) on August 1st. Semifinalists on August 21st. And Finalists on September 15th — one month prior to the Expo. These would be done on time or early. Give yourself more time than you think you need. If these are dates not possible (you know better than me and the summer may be a difficult time), then there should be an earlier final deadline to submit, NOT a later announcement. The Finalists would have one month to plan for the Expo. Golden Pitch tickets would go on sale at least one week after that September 15th announcement so that they would have time to buy tickets.

4. I would take a close look at similar festivals/contests that pull this off and see how they do it so well — like the Austin Film Festival Screenplay Competition.

Thanks for your time and good luck with the Expo Screenplay Competition.

-irin evers www.neuroticboyproductions.com

Michelle Muldoon is there (speaking on a Chris Canole panel). Hope you're having a good time - let us know how it went!

Thanks.

And Paula - one of my friends had the same issue and concerns. She's worried that her script wasn't even considered or at least given the time it should've been given. I'm not sure if that was just a WAB errror though.

Incredible news Stephen! Congrats! (And my friend Steven Arvanites is in too).

Thanks Jim! Reading 90% is a prize already for the QFs.

Congrats Stephen, Michael, Jeff - anyone I missed?

I think you can just wing it - that would be like a lot of screenwriters pitch when they're trying to get paid to write a spec. I figured the cool thing about pitching a script that you already have is that later, you could approach the judges (and others at the Pitch Party) or hope that someone might approach you. But I have no idea if that happens (I didn't pitch). But during the contest, you don't have to show your script or anything.

I find the beats to be the longest part of the writing for me though. Once I've outlined all the beats, I can write the script in a week or two because all the tough stuff is done. Do you guys have the reverse?

Great posts Stephen.

I'm from NY and I'm not used to this much squabbling - lol!

If gotten a total of 4 producer script requests from MB/WS (maybe a few more, not 100% sure). I've also gotten requests on inktip, but not sure how many. I had a close call thru inktip (but it fell through).

CS/Expo responded to my recent letter (in the previous post, but I'll also post it at the bottom of this). I won't even comment as not to bias you, but tell me what you honestly think:

Irin,

Thank you very much for taking the time to write. I agree that the Expo Screenplay Competition can certainly be improved. Improvements are in the works. We will announce them when ready. I also agree, very strongly, as does the contest manager, Pasha McKenley, that the contest should have been started and ended earlier. Events beyond our control caused delays in the start and end this year.

However, the rest of your criticism is simply incorrect or based on faulty assumptions.

First, regarding the message boards: It is very easy -- and quite cowardly -- to disparage under the cloak of anonymity. When one responds, they gang up in ways that they wouldn't dare do if they had the post their names. Also, have you ever seen one of the anonymous disparagers post, "I sold a script!"? I haven't.

Our contests and pitch fest, to the contrary, have had many success stories -- in fact, many more than we have publicly bragged about.

You wrote: "...you are not giving what was promised ... I think most serious writers would agree that they entered because of the promise of industry connections at the Expo...You did not give Semifinalists and Finalists (or even Quarterfinalists) a chance to make use of this exposure at the Expo, as you promised."

I am truly puzzled as to how you got this so dead wrong. Here are the promises we make to contest entrants with regard to industry access:

1. We promise that we will send winning scripts and finalists' log lines and synopses to 300+ production companies, agents, and managers. We have delivered on that promise each year (and will this year).

2. We promised that we would publish articles about winners. We have done so each year and will for this year's winners.

3. We promised additional publicity. The press release about this year's winners has either already gone out, and the winners will be posted at the Expo web site in a day or two. That information will stay there for years, fully searchable.

4. We offer the chance to participate in the Golden Pitch Fest under the terms discussed below, which are not the terms you seem to imagine we offered. Promise kept.

5. This year, we promised to announce winners the night before the Expo started. Promise kept.

We have made no other promise of "industry connections" or "a chance to use this exposure at the Expo."

In addition, behind the scenes, our remarkable contest manager, Pasha McKenley -- the best contest manager the Creative Screenwriting enterprise has ever had, by far -- is in constant contact with development executives and production companies, quietly passing along contestants' scripts behind the scenes.

Have you written to Pasha for help, ideas, or to just get a little attention for your work? Or to ask if any executives are interested in the screenplays you entered in our contests? No? Yet here you are, crabbing at us.

You chose not to come to the Expo --apparently because you wanted to see your contest status before you registered. You do not seem to understand the process for obtaining pitch tickets. It is the same now as it was in 2006: those who sign up for the Expo early --in June and early July, months before the contest is judged -- get the best access to pitch tickets. Everyone gets to buy tickets in the order he/she registered for the Expo. Waiting for a contest announcement before deciding to attend the Screenwriting Expo means that if you did attend and seek pitch tickets, you would be browsing through the leftover tickets by the time the link to buy tickets is sent to you.

It always was that way (including 2006), and we are not going to change that. The Screenwriting Expo is a costly, financially risky event. Many big bills come due well in advance. We intentionally reward those who help us reduce the financial risks giving them the best access to pitch tickets.

You seem to imply that the main or only reason for attending the Screenwriting Expo would have been just to pitch. Your criticisms imply that your scripts are great and your failure to sell is our fault.

We had four sessions at the Expo this year specifically aimed at you -- yes, you personally, and others similarly situated. Two of them were writers who have managed to sell from afar, giving their how-to. The third was a panel of contest winners, headed by 2008 AAA contest winner Chris Canole*, on strategies to leverage contest victories into career progress as a screenwriter. The fourth was another panel Chris put together of contest managers on how to use their (including our) contests to further your writing career. You chose not to come to the Expo and attend them.

* By the way: guess who was among the first to register for the Expo and was THE first to buy pitch tickets this year: Chris Canole. And he told me after the pitchfest that he had a lot of industry inquiries. You, with multiple contest victories, stayed home. I fail to see why that fact is the fault of the Expo Screenplay Competition.

I spent some time at the Expo listening to William Goldman, John Cleese, and Mike Medavoy discussing the state of the industry, how to succeed, and what is selling these days in Hollywood. You missed it.

Regarding Suzanne's Prize: yes, we delayed announcing it until the closing ceremony. But the semifinalists were announced in advance, and the five finalists were announced the evening before the Expo.

Also, this prize is not only an extra benefit, but it is MY prize, given in honor of my deceased wife. You show an extraordinary lack of sensitivity in presuming to complain about a prize that I am giving as an extra benefit at my company's sole expense (and at the expense of my and Suzanne's daughter's time), and which is so personal to me. The candidates for that prize did not complain. So rather than personally insult me, what do you think about showing just a bit more tact on that one?

You also wrote:

"Another bad decision was when the Expo Comp extended its deadline after it had passed. This was unfair to those who submitted on the final day. Was this just an attempt to bring in more money? It sure seems like it. And it was done at the expense of the future Finalists."

Wholly untrue. We stated quite clearly and emphatically what the deadlines were, and that the contest might be extended past the announced deadline at a higher price. Then, we did exactly as stated-- we extended at a higher price. There is nothing "unfair" to you or anyone about our stating the terms and then following them. You could have taken the risk that we might not extend the contest, and paid a higher price to submit later, as many others did.

It is also a fact that most screenwriting contests similarly extend deadlines at higher prices. But you seem to be singling us out for complaint on this point. In fact, in 2006 -- the year you seem to glorify as the golden age of the Expo Screenplay Competition --the former contest management did not state in the instructions and rules that the contest would be extended, then repeatedly promoted the deadline as if it were final -- and then extended at no penalty for latecomers. You snipe at us for an honest, stated extension and claim that a year in which the deadline and extension were dishonestly manipulated was somehow better. Please get your facts right.

Also, hundreds of entries are submitted each year in the final days of the extended deadline, at those higher prices. I imagine that this is true of other contests as well. (Else why would they do these extensions?) Why do writers take that risk and pay more? Quit carping at us and ask them.

As for our motives: we have two. One is to provide those writers with those last-minute habits an opportunity to enter, and pay that 7-11 premium over supermarket prices. The other is to help us pay the bills. You seem to think there is something impure or immoral about making enough money to pay the bills here. I don't.

Regarding your proposed schedule, thank you for trying. I won't go into detail about why it won't work, but as stated earlier. I do agree with your point that we need to start and conclude the contest a bit earlier.

Regarding the timing of pitch ticket sales: they will continue to go on sale the week before the Expo because that is the only rational way to run a pitch fest which is structured like ours. Presumably you have never attempted to run a pitch fest. Ours is very effective and well organized. So I think you need to leave the decisions on the timing of pitch ticket sales to us.

In closing, I have this to say regarding "taking the Expo off my list.." --

I have the same answer to you as I had in the magazine for "Betty" who wrote that our contests are bogus and our other products aren't helping her: Yes, OF COURSE, try something else if our offerings aren't helping you. Shop around, try other contests, other services and products, other opportunities, other approaches. If they work for you, wonderful. If not, re-examine.

Good luck to you. But do take responsibility for your choices.

Bill Donovan Editor and Publisher Creative Screenwriting Magazine



irin evers wrote: > How to save the Expo Screenwriting Competition&

> The title above may be throwing you off. You may not think the Expo Screenwriting Competition needs saving. But trust me, the word of mouth via email and on the boards (moviebytes, done deal pro, etc.) has been scathing. I'm only taking the time to write this out of disappointment on what the contest was and can be.

> I was a Quarterfinalist in 2006 and attended the Expo. I was also a Quarterfinalist this year. If you asked me just two years ago to name the top 5 contests I'd want to place at the top of, Expo would've been one of those. But now, I'm taking the Expo off my list and don't plan to enter again unless huge changes are made.

> The Expo Screenwriting Comp has the unique ability to really help up-and-coming writers at the Expo events (such as the Golden Pitch). When I pitched in 2006, it was a big plus to mention that I was a Quarterfinalist in the contest.

> How things have changed: This year (and in other recent years), the Expo Comp contest placements were not announced on time or with enough notice for out-of-towners to attend. This year, the Quarterfinalists were announced 8 days before the Expo. The Semifinalists were announced the day of the Expo (and by email, the day after). And the Finalists were announced 2 days before the Expo. I've also been told that Suzanne's Prize was not even awarded at the award ceremony and still has to be decided. This is embarrassing. This competition has been around for many years and you should know the approximate amount of submissions, and how long it will take to review them and decide on the winners.

> More importantly, you are not giving what was promised — and the most important thing of all. I would love to deposit $20,000 in my bank account, but I think most serious writers would agree that they entered because of the promise of industry connections at the Expo, not the $20K. You did not give Semifinalists and Finalists (or even Quarterfinalists) a chance to make use of this exposure at the Expo, as you promised.

> There are many festivals and awards ceremonies and it's difficult to have the time and money for all of them. Many writers wait to see how they place before deciding to attend. But that wasn't possible with the Expo. How many Semifinalists and Finalists attended the awards and the Expo this year? How many that live outside of LA? Were they able to buy pitch tickets after they found out that they had placed in the Expo Comp?

> Another bad decision was when the Expo Comp extended its deadline after it had passed. This was unfair to those who submitted on the final day. Was this just an attempt to bring in more money? It sure seems like it. And it was done at the expense of the future Finalists.

> The rushing of the contest makes writers fear that the decisions were made quickly and that many scripts didn't get a fair read. This rushing can also be seen in the sloppiness of typos both on the Expo website and in emails about the Comp (notice the 2008 logo on all 2009 emails, for example).

> Here's what I would do if I were running the Expo Comp (and what should be done):

> 1. The main deadline would be moved up to May 1st. Let's face it — most writers are looking at one deadline all year: the Nicholl May 1st deadline. So May 1st isn't a stretch. There are never any extensions to the Nicholl and writers have all year to work toward it.

> 2. There would be a late and FINAL deadline of June 1st - period. This deadline would be posted from the beginning, have a higher fee and would not be extended for any reason whatsoever. If the Expo Comp is worried about not getting enough entries to pay the $20K prize, then that prize should be lower — maybe post a $10K winner prize and $2K genre winners prizes, and these can always be raised later (no one would complain about that). But the main thing is the announcement of Finalists one month prior to the Expo and nothing should stop that from happening.

> 3. Announcements: The Quarterfinalists would be announced (emails and on the website) on August 1st. Semifinalists on August 21st. And Finalists on September 15th — one month prior to the Expo. These would be done on time or early. Give yourself more time than you think you need. If these are dates not possible (you know better than me and the summer may be a difficult time), then there should be an earlier final deadline to submit, NOT a later announcement. The Finalists would have one month to plan for the Expo. Golden Pitch tickets would go on sale at least one week after that September 15th announcement so that they would have time to buy tickets.

> 4. I would take a close look at similar festivals/contests that pull this off and see how they do it so well — like the Austin Film Festival Screenplay Competition.

> Thanks for your time and good luck with the Expo Screenplay Competition.

> -irin evers > www.neuroticboyproductions.com > > >

I'm jealous. (Not of the rain though!) Austin 2010...

You might be tired (and wet), Amanda, but you're going to have the best time!

I think I posted on this clause. I'm pretty sure the idea of it is that if your scripts wins Champion and Jim wants to advertise your name and script name on his website, you can't turn around and say "I sold my script to my brother for a penny, and he doesn't want the name on the website."

Any lawyers here?

Dan, possibly your best post yet - lol.

Seriously, I took offense to Bill's reply because I felt that he attacked and insulted me and my work ethic, writing things about me that are untrue instead. Anyway, here's the letter I sent back:

Bill-

I don't think I've ever received a more insulting, condescending letter. It's fine if you disagree with these opinions on the Expo. But to insult my character is unbelievable. You've written things about me in this letter as if you think you know me, but you do not. Is this how you treat all opinions?

I only took the time to write about the Expo Comp out of disappointment and concern. I've been a subscriber to CS for around 11 years and read all of those issues cover to cover (they are on my bookshelf). I attended the Expo in 2006 (no, I don't think of 2006 as the glory days, and yes, I did a lot more than pitch at that Expo). But I've been disappointed in recent years and screenwriters on the boards, as well as friends of mine have expressed the same opinions (including writers who placed highly this year). Believe me, I wouldn't have taken time away from my family and my writing to send a letter if I didn't care, I would've just not entered again.

Instead, you attack me as a person. But you've never met me. You don't know anything about my work ethic. If you want to know about me, ask Chris Canole. Ask Michelle Muldoon, who spoke on one of his panels. Ask Heather Hughes, who spoke on a panel. Ask Pilar Alessandra, perennial Expo speaker. Ask Alex McPhail, Austin Film Festival Screenplay Coordinator. Ask Gordy Hoffman, BlueCat Screenplay Comp Coordinator. Ask Jennifer Berg or Zoe Simmons of the PAGE International. Ask Suzanne DeLaurentiis of the Cinema City Film Festival. Ask anyone who knows me.

Or feel free to read any of my posts on the screenwriting boards. On the message boards, my name is simply ''irin evers.'' I state my opinions and do my best to help others. I take responsibility for all my choices. My name is not ''anonymous.'' But that doesn't mean that anonymous postings aren't helpful or honest. Many do post their names. Many don't for fear of a contest or industry writing them off. My name is not ''Betty'' either.

Posters don't post ''I sold a script.'' Neither do I. I haven't sold one. Is this a requirement to send a letter? Is this a requirement to subscribe to CS? Is this a requirement to have a valid opinion on screenwriting?

You have accused me of merely ''crabbing'' and ''carping'' (the first time I've ever been called either of these) rather than trying to make a go at this business. Without knowing me, you make untrue assumptions. I have spent countless hours working on my craft, submitting, networking, reading books and magazines, reading scripts for fun and as a prodco reader, attending festivals with films and scripts (and won awards for both), and supporting indie film.

You say I ''chose not to come to Expo'' as if this is just a mere choice. Here are some possible reasons to miss the Expo: the cost of a trip from NY, missed work, a wife who's about to give birth, a 14 month old baby. Yes, all of these apply. I chose to attend Austin over the Expo last year and am happy I did. I had an incredible time and it led to me signing with an agent.

''Your criticisms imply that your scripts are great and your failure to sell is our fault.'' I've said or implied nothing of this sort. I don't even mention my scripts in my letter. Nor do I mention about selling them. This is incredibly offensive.

One thing is for certain, Erik Bauer surely wouldn't have written such an insulting, unprofessional letter. Best of luck to you.

-irin evers

Thanks Heather. But you had to say something nice, since I mentioned your name - lol!

Hope you're having a blast in Austin. Remember to look for Steven Arvanites.

Yeah - it's a boy. I should name him Austin! (Or Nicholl?)

Not "Oscar"?

The problem is that WAB is so convenient though. Much easier than sending a script in the mail.

I'm still confused about how to have two scripts uploaded - one with title page and one without - and make sure the right one gets sent. So I delete and replace them depending on the submission, which is frustrating.

Not yet. I submitted around mid-September, I think.

Don't worry - it's a resubmit and it didn't place last time. I'm sure you'll knuckleball me out of there.

I won a similar service in All Access (Sell a Script) with 2 scripts. One blast got me a bunch of reads. The other got zero. I think it depends on your genre/logline and luck of the moment and the person looking at it.

I also did a more targeted query of 110 agents and mangers from HCD online and the Fade In rep book. I got several requests and signed with my agent. Agin, luck - the right type of script that the agent was looking for and she hadn't signed someone in years.

I've gotten on by my films playing film festivals - snuck in the back door - lol.

I wouldn't include the actors. If you have a film that takes place in one room with one actor, but you pick Julia Roberts or Brad Pitt, and pay them their full salary - it's high budget.

I'm not sure about writing credits - if it takes an option, or sale, or development (I've seen listings in development for sure, but the producers may have to post because you don't want to just post that).

On another note - my first film sucked. But they (I think) got better. Keep making them. It's another great way of getting into the business, going to festivals and besides the work and expense, it's a blast.

I agree with Randy. I recently adapted a feature script to a short script and I hope to shoot it. I'd never done that before. Basically I took some first act stuff, a second act scene and jumped to the end. I was afriad that people wouldn't see the character's whole journey. But it's won 3 script contests and placed in others. Honestly, I still feel it's mssing because I can see the full feature too. But maybe I got lucky. There's also a chance yours just can't be adapted to a short form without losing what you love about it - don't tak e it personally.

Short films should be 30 minutes and under, preferably under 20 or at least under 25. I find that the page = a minute isn't true. It's always a few minutes longer than the page count by the time it's done. I'd shoot for a 20 page script or even 15 if you can do that.

That's a great start. Congrats!

They should be blunt and honest. They have to be if they work for prodcos. But they shouldn't be nasty or insulting just to be insulting - that's unprofessional and it doesn't help anyone (them, you, or anyone they work for).

Yeah - it's a decent listing and Script Savvy has one too when you enter the contest.

Also, if you're under 10 minutes, you can be programmed both in a shorts program and preceding a feature - so there are more opitions - because many festival feature films are 75-95 minutes long and they want to fill their block.

Thanks Stephen!

Thanks John!

And congrats Marjory and Mike M.

If only...!

I received an email about the upcoming Fade In deadline, but hadn't heard anything past the Semis of last year's comp. So I emailed to ask and this is what they said:

Finalists will be announced in November! Stay tuned.

I plan to enter again. I wonder why they're so behind.

My family comedy (with collaborator John Barlowe) "Miss Christmas" got a 56 and may sneak into the Honorable Mentions.

Thanks Murph and good luck with the new one. I hope it does as well as (or better than) Knuckleballer.

I know they've been mentioned before, but I wanted to get an update on any dealings with them. They contacted me about my PAGE Family Finalist. I checked out the website and it seems to be very professional and interesting. But I'd love to get some opinions.

Thanks.

Congrats Stephen!

That's great about the meetings the guy Stephen knows had though.

If everyone's out of work, how can they afford the contests - lol! It's brutal.

Thanks. I have a manager (in NY) and thinking they'd manage and supplement that.

Oops - I meant I have an agent in NY...

Congrats Murph! Kicking butt again.

Thanks Murph. Yeah - I seem to be reading good things online about their notes, and no red flags.

But usually you can have both an agent and a manager. Are you sure?

Congrats Susan!

Please Stephen, I happen to know that you overbleach your teeth!

More to write, but I have to go masterbate while grandma cooks me some mac & cheese.

That's awesome Joseph!

Is anyone going?

Our new baby boy was born this past Wednesday night, so I'm not sure how much of the festival I'll be able to attend. At the very least, I plan to be there some on Sunday to catch films, go to Martin Kove, and be at the Awards.

Thanks!

Thanks! His name is Ellis.

No films - I haven't made one since 2007, but hope to shoot again soon. I have 3 script Finalists though, and won Best Short Screenplay there last year.

Thanks! If he was the award, then the festival director should babysit!

Thanks - yeah, in the 6th inning the night the Yankees won the series.

Soon I'll be saying my wife gave birth in the stadium - lol!

Here's the link: www.austinfilmfestival.com

The Austin Film Festival has one of the top screenplay competitions. The festival itself the best one out there for screenwriters (there are seminars, panels, roundtables, parties, etc.) and they show great films as well.

Congrats Stephen!

I'll be there on Sunday - starting as early as we can get the in-laws to help my wife with the kids and then through the awards ceremony. When is that short playing?

It's not a toss up. It's Austin.

Number 7 and Number 21?! Lol. It's that Stephen Hoover. He keeps edging me out!

Thanks Jim. I appreciate it.

I've only done the one that comes with the entry fee to the contest, but you'll find that many people on here love Savvy. Donna really helps people. The feedback is usually excellent. And personally, I've gotten more reads from my Savvy placements than any other contest. There are a lot of the same stories from people I've spoken to.

Yes, I've only done the Standard Feedback ($55), but have heard good things about the more expensive one too.

I might not be there that early - it's been tough with the new baby. If I'm there, I'll look for you. Otherwise, I'll keep an eye out for you (I think we get badges).

Congrats! And it looks like I have 2 in family (though they left off my co-writer for Miss Christmas).

I'd written 11 scripts before trying with a collaborator. I didn't think it would work to be honest. I was already kind of set in my ways of approaching it and banging out both an outline and draft.

But John and I were impressed by each other's writings and we each had a concept that was more in the other person's ballpark (he had a family one that I wanted to try, and I had a broad comedy that I'd already failed with and he wanted to try). So we tried something a bit different. We wrote the two scripts simultaneously - each taking a lead on one, outlining and writing on our own, but going back to the other person for advice, help, etc. at every stage and draft. The person who was doing the writing has the final say (but has to be openminded about the comments). It's worked great. We've written 3 and the 4th is partially outlined now, and that's in about 9 months of time. It's increased my output and quality. I find myself doing things in my scripts that I know John would do and I could never previously think of those things. I feel we brought each other up a notch. After this 4th one, we'll have to chat about new ideas for the next two.

And what's neat is that I can still work the way I always did. My scripts with him are probably my best work and I'm proud to have my name (as well as writing and influence) on the ones that he has taken a lead on.

Also, I have a decent contract that we got online and edited if you want it - but I'm no lawyer so you have to check it out yourself.

Just in case someone took nude photos when they were younger and has to give up their crown.

You need the conflict/obstacle - you know what I mean? Big deal, he has to take a shot every 3 hours. Diabetics do it. Why is that tough for him? (There's no medicine, etc.)

I can not look away from this car crash. Lol!

I'm kind of confused by all of this too. But one thing I do understand and that's congrats to me. Good work Irin!

On the logline - now I understand the stakes/conflict. Basically, write: protagonist, what they want, first act turning point, and get some stakes in there. That's simplified, but if you write that out as one sentence, you can then play around and make it stronger.

Brilliant advice, Irin. You have done it again.

That's a bit wordy and has some stuff that seems extraneous.

When a scientist becomes infected with a virus he created, he desperately tries to find a cure and stop the coming apocalypse the virus is causing.

It's okay. I mean, Irin - brilliant minor accomplishment. Seriously, at least the stakes are there, but is there more of a hook that I'm missing? I don't know the full story.

"...caused by the virus." is a better ending than that.

Sorry - you're right.

When a scientist becomes infected with a zombie-generating virus he created, he desperately tries to find a cure and stop the coming apocalypse caused by the virus.

Believe me, I'm not saying this is it and I'm not as familiar with the script as you, but I think yours had a bit too much fat on it. A good way to go is to look at loglines of similar films (I Am Legend, 28 Days Later, etc.) on imdb and it might help.

I never submitted to them because they had this clause about getting 7% of any script sale. I think they've gotten rid of it since then (but I'm not positive), but that always rubbed me the wrong way.

Yes and no. I found it funny when people in the business said I was crazy for signing with a manager (who I'm not longer with) because he was 20% (vs. the standard 10%) when all I could think of was "I'd give him 99% if he could get one of my scripts sold and produced. I have plenty more scripts." And I still feel that way. But this is a contest where you're paying them to enter. If you sell this script a few years from now they might come back and say they get 7% even though they didn't help at all. I'm fine if they got it sold, but that's a ridiculous clause. And - I've sold as many scripts as you (or less than you).

Congrats Nathan!

Congrats Mike!

I just got an email that it's now available at the Writers Store for $17 ($3 off). I know some of you have been waiting for it.

It seems that price was only from a Storylink email - this is the link:

http://www.writersstore.com/product.php?products_id=4413&source=strike

Yeah - I just ordered it. Looking forward to reading it. Good holidays this year - I also bought a Mac and am finally switching (my PC is going to die any day).

The plan was for the Mac to go in my office, and then we'll reformat my Dell (and get rid of all the issues, hopefully) and put it in the family room. Why do I have a feeling we're going to have to buy a second Mac very soon?! Luckily, I made my wife get the iPhone last year when I bought mine or I would've lost mine. I need to sell a script just to pay for my bill to Apple!

Yeah - a friend told me to get that and I did. Thanks!

That's crazy Heather. No, I won't buy Toshiba.

And I was tired of having issues on my Dell with Dell telling me "it's a Microsoft (or other) issue" and Microsoft telling me "it's a Dell issue." I'm hoping the Apple customer service will be much better. Now if only I wasn't so tired at night and could set it up already...

I've heard bad things about them for many years. The contacted me when they were Sydra and luckily, I read all about them online. I forget what their deal was (what they promised, what you have to give them, etc.), but I remember there were a lot of red flags.

Don't worry about it - I was bummed too at the time. I can't believe they're still around.

Congrats Actor!

It could also be possible that the company itself doesn't have releases because they don't accept any unsolicited material - period. Agent and manager submissions don't need releases. But the wife (not with the company) mentioned it to the guy and then he started getting worried about it so they thought about a release. Or I could be completely wrong.

A bunch of you guys were raving about this contest. Thank you letting me know about it.

Congrats to all the other MBers (like Stephen and Janet)!

And sample ones can be found online. That's where I found one for my partnership with John Barlowe.

And Cat! (Sorry the print is small - I'm sure I missed many others).

No problem. It also helped me because I entered Screenplay Festival and have done well there. Thank you.

3 or 5 surely doesn't mean any will advance. You just need the right one. And if the judge is married to a man with Corvette...

Congrats everyone!

Congrats Noua!

Congrats Dana!

Congrats Orlanda! Good luck!

Congrats James! Incredible news!

Congrats Cat!

Congrats everyone!

Congrats Stephen! Anyone else on there?

Congrats Stephen! Anyone else on there?

Great score Stephen! Congrats!

And thanks for all your help Heather. Happy New Year!

When I won, I wasn't notified ahead of time about changing my logline. I knew my score, but I wasn't sure about the result until it was announced. So it's not over yet...

They've been late a few times and it's not surprising with the holidays, but I wouldn't take it as either good or bad news. Donna will probably send an email on Monday at the latest.

59 for The Way It Spins in March of 2009. It seems like you need a 57 to place now though each month is different.

Scott - the feedback comes via email and it's really helpful. You would've gotten it weeks ago. I'd email them have it resent.

Congrats guys!

Good post. This is along the lines of what I was getting at with my post about which contests have gotten people reads. I've definitely spent too much on contest submissions over the years - though of course there have been plenty of positive things that came out of it. But I'm trying to just narrow my list to the ones that I think will really help in one way or another. I didn't start screenwriting with a goal of "boy, I'd love to place in screenplay contests" and I'm sure the rest of you were with me on "I'd like to see my film on the screen." So these contests should be a means to an end and ones that don't help shouldn't be supported. I'm surely not saying the list needs to be merely "Nicholl" though because there are many others that are worthwhile in various ways (labs, retreats, getting in with the person that runs it, attending festivals and being able to network, etc.) I'm just saying that if the prizes are a mass email sent to hundreds of industry people (from a meaningless contest that they don't care about), an inktip posting (just buy it yourself instead of paying for the contest), and Final Draft, then your money is probably better spent elsewhere. This is what I'm going to follow in 2010.

Fingers crossed Heather!

Again - check all this. But Stephen's right in that the WGA only lasts for a bunch of years (though I think you can pay again to renew) and copyright is until after your death. Copyright is legal. WGA is more like proof. Again - check this. So WGA is good, but copyright isn't that much more and with the new online system, it's finally easy to do. So that's the way I go.

I'm sure WGA respects copyright since it's legal. If there was a credit dispute (who wrote what parts after several writers worked on a Spiderman 7), the WGA arbitrates, but if it's a question of who wrote it first, etc., I'd think the courts would be deciding.

No problem. The answers to my post helped me as well.

Not sure about Family Animation, but you might want to do PAGE and others that have separate Family categories.

I agree with you Stephen. Then the fee should be higher and everyone should be considered by Abstract.

That's not the issue. There was an additional fee to also be considered by Abstract (beyond the entry fee). So if you didn't pay the extra fee, was your script fairly considered in the contest itself?

I just noticed that the Fade In results are finally up! I took 3rd Place in the Short Scripts. I'm not complaining, but the weird thing is that I contacted them after my name was listed in the Semifinalists and they mentioned only one of my features in the running. I thought the short was out. Also, I didn't receive an email that the winners were up.

Did anyone else get any kind of emails from Fade In? Did any other winners receive prizes?

Thanks.

Answering my own questions, but...

Just got an email back from Michele at Fade In that says:

Yes! We were getting many voicemails before the break so letters go out next week! Congrats!!!

No worries, but then you're going to owe me a cinnamon roll!

I just bought the new MM - long tie MM2000 user and love it. Haven't had much practice with the new one yet, but my friend loves it and recommended it. Was disappointed in Streamline so far though - tested it twice on scripts.

If you shaved off a page though, that's great! I tried one script and there weren't any suggestions to save pages. And the other script had suggestions to save 1/8th and then nothing else. Am I doing it wrong?

Thanks!

Thanks Murph!

Ah - I was doing all of that, except for going out of Streamline and making the change and coming back. I thought it was making the change for me while I was in it when I attempted to do so. I'll try again. Thanks.

Yeah - definitely look at the other thread. You know the ones that get the most entries (and are top ones): Nicholl, Austin, PAGE, BlueCat, etc., but also choose ones that have labs (Sundance, etc.), festivals (Austin, etc.), or fit your script. Script Savvy is not only helpful, but gives great notes. Screenplay Festival was mentioned many times in the other thread so I entered this time too.

I wasn't even familiar with that one, but good to know. Thanks.

I couldn't find info about the winning script in production. Am I missing it?

But this brings up another question. I've seen contests boast "2007 finalist acquired representation" or "2008 winner optioned" - but as we all enter many contests and query people, is this the specific contest that led to that happening? Just another thing to watch.

Exactly what I'm talking about. I see plenty of "After John Writer entered His Script to Our Contest, he signed with Top Agent" or "John Writer took 2nd Place in Our Contest in 2007 and His Script is in pre-production at Big Studio."

Big deal. Did that contest make it happen?

Heather Hughes made the Top 50 of Kairos - congrats!

Anyone else in there?

Congrats Stephen!

Bobbette-

I was totally in the same place in the summer of 2008. I needed a break, was feeling a lot of frustration. And my wife and I moved from an apartment to a house and a had a baby a few weeks later, so between unpacking, dealing with the house, learning my way around and then the baby - it was tough to write. I decided to finish one last script (if I could finally find the time) and then take a year off.

Before I could finally find the time to write that last script, fate intervened - got invited to Cinema City and won 2nd Place, invited to Queens and took 1st Place, attended Austin as a Second Rounder and advice there led to queries which got me an agent for the first time. So I had to postpone the break on some rewrites for the agent, finally wrote that "last" script, but then had met a collaborator at Queens and we signed a two script deal. (We just signed for two more).

Now I'm back in that place again. We just had a second kid (2 under a year and a half old) and I haven't been able to write since October. But the scripts with the collaborator are, I think, my best and most marketable work. And I've had more interest in my scripts than in a while. So, I plan to write those next two and then I may take a year off - so I'll wait until the kids a little older and hopefully have some more time to write (finding it impossible at the moment).

I know - enough about me. But I'm saying it to say - I've been there so I understand why you're saying it. You may not write at all and enjoy the break. You may sneak in some writing (without any pressure). You may find your mind suddenly churning out ideas. No matter what, I think it could be a really good thing. Worst case scenario, you take it easy for two months and then change your mind, no loss. I may follow you!

Yeah, that's a lot of red flags: you didn't query them, they don't know your script's name, they're charging a fee. Good email back. I'm sure you won't hear from them.

They don't just do music though: http://www.blackwoodcompany.com/ And can be found on imdb.

Still - wouldn't bother and surely wouldn't pay.

I know it's tempting, but for $25 a month, the incentive for them is to string you along and do nothing. If it was William Morris Endeavor, sure, I'd pay, but this has scam written all over it. Sorry.

But I hope you still check in on Moviebytes!

Fingers crossed for you Dana.

I don't think anything will happen in a month because there's no incentive for them. When you pay an agent or manager 10%, all the work they do is for free until they make the sale - no money goes to them until then. So they're really trying to sell it and pay off their work, and that's also why they choose what they believe they can sell. By paying someone monthly regardless, it's more important for them to rack up clients than to sell. If they can just get 100 clients, that's $2,500 per month, $30,000 per year. Even if they come and go, that's not bad. I want someone who's interests are definitely aligned with mine.

Do people copy and mail scripts anymore or do they send pdfs? Will they send you a list of who they submit to monthly? I doubt it.

I'm definitely curious what happens next! Good act one.

4,000?! That's crazy.

"because she won the iP Screenwriting Contest" - is that true? What is the website of this contest?

I agree Terry. Two scripts have 8,000 votes now.

There's nothing wrong with the campaigning in the BlueCat Title Contest. The problem is the people who obviously cheated - there's no way that many individuals voted. The fair way would be to just have people on the BlueCat email list vote, but that would be a pain to police as well. Stephen didn't do anything wrong.

It's a shame that this neat idea for a contest was ruined. I met Anita Skibski due to the Title Contest a few years ago when we were both Finalists. We're still friends (had fun finally meeting at the Austin Film Fest 2008) and we still talk all the time. That was even better than my title winning. (Recount!)

But he is right generally about the contests. No one cares if you win 99% of these contests. We've talked about this a bunch here. And who cares about winning Final Draft - you're a writer, you should own FD or MMS.

But contests are at first a great way of validation and measuring your skills against the masses. Then you should only be entering contests that get reads, get notice somehow, are run by someone that you want to be familiar with your work, have a prize that you want (labs, retreats, mentoring), etc. So some contests are still worth it, but choose wisely. For example, Zoetrope announced today - look at those companies listed and this is Coppola's company.

But there are many other ways, and many better ways to break in. Make a short films and enter festivals (and then a feature film), work in the business and make connections - even outside of LA and NY, contact producers, managers and agents personally - don't wait for the contests (it's tough, but it happens - that's how I got my agent), attend film festivals (instead of submitting to 20 unknown contests, use to money to go to Austin), etc. There are many other things to do to help your career. Honestly, I spend more time managing my career than writing. And Stephen Hoover doesn't live in LA or NY and he's great at networking from home, always getting his name and scripts out there. Anyone can do these things.

Phil - congrats on Slamdance. I'd go with Thriller just because in comedy they my lean toward the "funniest" and go with something broad. I find that my family comedy does better in family rather than comedy, so I usually just go family now. Of course, it could be that I'm not funny. Uh - no, that's not a joke. Please stop laughing.

Thanks for the lead, Phil.

I'll have to check the contract too, Bill...

-i

And I hate seeing 5% net because you know how "hollywood accounting" works. The movie makes $100M, but somehow the budget was $100M - as they put other things in the budget to not pay taxes and points.

But let's face it. I'd probably PAY THEM 5% to shoot mine - lol!

I have an S-Corporation (Inc.) of my production company (I've also produced my short films) and through that I'm able to write off expenses against my personal taxes. This is one way to do it (but yes, you have to pay to get incorporated and there's a minimum tax).

There may also be a way to do it straight to your personal stuff, but there's a line of where it's considered a "hobby" - I'm not sure how that's determined.

Congrats Stephen!

Well said Robert.

I agree with you about the contests not been recognized by the industry (99% aren't), and there are a lot that are just worried about the fees vs. not helping writers. And I've had many posts about this and choosing only the contests that will help in some way. But there are other ways the contests help as I mentioned above (validation for new writers, connections with the contest runners, labs and retreats, etc.)

But (as you alluded to and I've mentioned before) - the contests are not a silver bullet. There are many other ways to break in, everyone who has has a different story, and they all involve work. If you want to break in, you can't just fire scripts off to contests and wait to get discovered. And writers should be working many angles to break in.

But the contests are helpful and can get you some connections. You can take any of the other options - move to LA, work in the industry, become a reader, make shorts and features, etc. and say the same about those things. What percentage of writers that move to LA sell a script? Or that make a short film? Or that work for an agent as an assistant? What percentage of Steven Spielberg's relatives have sold a script? All of these are valid ways to break in (contests have led to people getting connections too). To put one aside and say it's a waste is easy to say about any of these since virtually no new writers sell a spec each year. So to say that about the contests isn't a fair shake.

Like I said, I'm a huge believer that only the contests that will really help (in whatever way) should be submitted to and I'm sorry I took me a while to learn this. And I'll keep posting about this. Contests that do not help should be avoided and everyone should get that info. That's what this board should be helpful about.

The contests are not a silver bullet, but to throw them out as a complete waste is missing the point of some of them.

Lol - Greg Beal made some of the same points as me at the same time. Sorry it ended up being repetitive. Thanks Greg.

Thanks and congrats Cat!

Congrats Chris!

A screenplay contest winner, George Covic?

Ditto on copyrights vs. WGA. And copyright is online now and only $13 more than WGA.

Double check this, but when you copyright/register, it's the material as a whole, the title can be changed just like you can change the main character's name and still be protected.

Congrats Mike!

Congrats Heather! Awesome news.

George-

How do you get your scripts out there?

I believe in that too. I've worked in the business (script reader, development, production), made award-winning films, attended festivals (with and without films), etc. I'm trying to see if there's something I'm missing.

Do you live in LA? Are you working in the business? Where are the relationships coming from and how do you work them?

Trust me, I couldn't agree more. That's why I started that post about which contests really get you reads. We have to stop giving money to contests that don't help in any way. I say "we" because I'm to blame as well. This board should help us keep tabs on which contests help and which ones don't.

I think most of us agree on that and what contests don't do, and also what good contests can do. I'm just curious what else everyone is doing for networking and connections and how they're doing it. I want to also get a feel of other things I can do.

I'll tell you guys where I am now and how I got these connections:

-My agent has found things to be tough lately. I think she's waiting on some answers for some of my scripts, but the best prospect is the family adventure script that I'm a few drafts into (with my collaborator), and the family fantasy script that we are outlining together. (I got an agent a year ago - some advice on queries at the 2008 Austin Film Fest convinced me to do another query mailing, which I hadn't done in two years. I got a few requests. My agent liked the script, asked what else I had, liked two more and signed me).

-A Director that I met at the 2008 Queens Film Fest after I won Best Short Script, read the feature version of the script. He was interested but wasn't able to focus on the project until now. He's about to go out with the project for funding. (A connection from the afterparty at a film festival).

-I have a script out to a Producer in LA. (We met when I was a script reader in NY).

-A Producer has given us notes on a broad comedy and we're executing them. In a draft or two, he's going to bring it out to his connections. He's excited about the script and has shown his commitment to it. (He's a former Editor on major films who I met many years ago when I was a commodities floor broker. He's making the move to Producing, and we happened to get in touch again recently).

Thanks George. But my point is that of the 4 leads I currently have, 2 were directly or indirectly from contests.

-The Director going out to get funding for my script, I met at the Queens Film Fest when my short script was in the running, so I attended (and won).

-I credit the advice at the Austin Film Fest for leading to my finally geting an agent. I attended Austin when one of my scripts finally made it.

-The other two leads: one was from an old chance contact in any unrealted business, one was from my work as a script reader.

Walter - that's great networking. And the cold calling gives me hope on trying that out some point soon.

At first I was annoyed at your post George, but now I'm finding it a very thoughtful thread - I have to admit.

You can see my loglines on the Scripts page of my website: www.neuroticboyproductions.com. I have opinions on them, and have gotten comments form others, but I won't bias you. Some are more commercial than others of course. (The urban ones are indie, not high concept. I know you'll hate those loglines. I have to hope for a read there because that's what they are).

Thanks Steven. That's all good stuff.

Congrats James! Sounds like a fun project!

Let's all try to just support the contests that really can help us in some way. And only those.

Like I said - I've been guilty in the past too, but am watching who I sponsor going forward.

Congrats Mike!

-i

I didn't even notice the 2nd category. Thats awesome Mike!

I got your note George, and just wanted to say thanks for checking out my website and for the advice.

Second Place is the first Loser!!

I'm kidding. That's another incredible showing. Congrats!

Looks like I'm going to have to cancel that Acapulco reservation for the photo shoot. What am I going to do in March now? And I was going to bring my 184 page script!

It's a shame they can't seem to catch guys like this. I'm sure they manage to rip people off, unfortunately.

I'm done caring anyway because I'm about to hit it big. There's this poor guy in Rwanda who inherited $20 million, but can't get it because he doesn't have a bank account. I'm going to give him $1,000 so it'll clear into my account. Then I'll be done with screenwriting! See ya, suckers!

I agree that when submit on the last day, you're in the huge stack and can get more of the rush treatment. But most contests go over deadline nowadays so they're not on a crazy deadline. And I've submitted both films and scripts on the final day with excellent results at times. I definitely think it's better to get it in a little early, but I'm also wary of being the first one in because you may be forgotten by the time all the initial ones are judged, and readers may not give as high a score - like wanting to be last at the Olympics.

I'm also curious where the readers don't bother. That's not good.

No way! Get your own millions!

Thanks James. Good catch.

But bad news on my Rwandan millions. I (seriously) received this in this email today - lol:

Attention

With due respect to notify you that we have been informed by the management of western Union money transfer that a lot of people including you have been engaged in transaction Involving money and other valuables with fraud stars in all part of the world. With investigation going on, we believe that they have committed a fraudulent Crime by sending the money and other valuables item to thieves. It might interest you to know That through the last meeting held with the leaders, international monetary fund (IMF), America gov., Europe gov., Asia gov., Africa gov. and security agencies to Investigating this matter and we have a good report now. That those people that sent money or other valuable items to fraud stars through western union should recover them back through western union money transfer where they sent them. You are to forward your information's to recover your fund and your items if you are interested in recovering them please indicate by answering these questions: (1) Your full name,sex and age (2) Country of Origin and where you currently reside 3) Your address and phone Number (4) Your occupation, Identity card or international passport (5) State the name of the suspected fraud star (6) The country where he/she is now (7) State the amount you have been defrauded (8) Any picture involved (if yes please send us a copy) (9) His or her contact information (email, phone number or fax)

Reply to these questions will be needed within 48 hours so as to be certain With all the information we have here to carry out our payments with this email address: dradien@mail.ru

Inspector Bill Mailhot

Here's a contest result story from this week:

I received an email response this week from a very good manager (I checked them out on the web) requesting one of my scripts. It was a response from a query sent out in May - yes, May. But I didn't personally send any queries this year. It turns out that it was sellascript.com's mass e-query that I won by placing in the Top 10 of last year's All Access comp. The script is in the mail.

Steve-

Word's good on the Prince. He just asked if you could send your social security number as well. Just email it to me when get a chance. Thanks.

That's my biggest pet peeve - extensions after the "final" deadline has passed. I understand that contests do it to try to take in more money, but it's unfair to those who submit at the last minute, but would've liked more time. The best contests don't do it. And the ones that are concerned that they may not take in as much in fees as they think, should set their prize money winnings accordingly. Especially when this happens year after year, they should know what to expect by now.

On Austin - first of all, incredible festival and very much worth entering. But as for the readers - I'm not sure if that's true of not for the beginning rounds, but there are definitely judges for later rounds in the industry. But regardless, those are the "calibre of reader" that will judging your film when it goes into theaters. And also, many prodcos, etc. employ readers with minimal experience who narrow it down to the higher ups (who then narrow it further). I started as a script reader with minimal experience. So when your scripts go out to places, often the readers are students (many of the readers who worked with me were getting credit from Columbia or NYU). So this wouldn't be such a stretch. And it's only one contest and one opinion. You should definitely enter Austin.

Jack - you're right. I kind of oversimplified my point. I was just trying to say that when your film gets made, everyone and anyone will also give their opinions on it, not just those "qualified." And hopefully people who are more knowledgeable about scripts are judging the contests. But definitely don't expect all the contests and prodcos to have incredibly qualified readers in the first rounds. And for sure, we're all a victim to their biases.

And on Janet - she's talked about her placements as they've happened and I've seen some of them on lists.

That's true about auditioning to be a reader. I was first given a script and had to write sample coverage before they accepted me. They gave me one they knew was bad to make sure I'd pass on stuff that wasn't for them (there's no point in a reader that likes every script - trust me, they aren't all good) - though I didn't know that at the time. I trashed it and got the job.

Sorry you didn't win, but congrats on another incredible showing!

Lol - and see my previous postings from last year about my experiences with 928...

I just posted the emails they sent me when I queried them.

You should've tipped the guy a twenty to park it right at the front!

Good luck with the meetings.

That's awesome. Good meeting.

On "Staten" - the feature had done very well in the comps, but I didn't seem to have any takers. So I decided to write a short version and shoot it (basically the reverse of films/scripts like Gowanus/Half Nelson). I figured I could shoot it, enter festivals, and then have the feature to show. I decided to submit the short script to contests as long it wasn't ones where they'd shoot it (and direct it) for you, because I want to.

The rub - the short script has done well and I'd still like to shoot it, but I managed to keep all of the most expensive elements of the feature. The 19 page short would be more expensive than any of my other films (even a 50 minute one I made), and it's tough to find the money and (even more so with two young kids) the time right now, so it's on the back burner for the moment.

Nick-

On that bit on the website about a long screenplay "prejudicing a reader" - it's absolutely true and you have to watch that. When I was a reader and they hand out the week's scripts, the first thing everyone did (after glancing at the title) was flip to the last page and see the number of pages. And you'd hear the groans from the readers who got the longer ones. Readers get paid the same for a 95 pager as a 125 pager and that's an extra half hour of work - of your free time taken away (and a brutal half hour if the script is bad).

I can tell you honestly, the first thing that goes though my head when I'm handed a 125 page script (and I'm not alone, trust me) is that I had better not be able to cut 5 pages out of this. It had better be incredibly tight. And for sure, there shouldn't be anything missing or not explained well. I sound like a jerk, but trust me, every reader thinks this and it's not the way you want them to start your read.

You might want to check descriptions and if there's a word hanging onto the next line, shorten that description by one word (take out pronouns or use commas). Also, Movie Magic has a thing that helps cut the right words to shorten (but it didn't work for me when I tried it).

So all I'm saying is be sure that it's tight.

Congrats guys!

Is this a movie in theatres now? This board isn't about politics. Just don't complain when the same exact thing happens as did last time when politics was posted.

I'm just saying that you started a thread like this about Sarah Palin and it ended up with you getting annoyed when people went off - or am I wrong about that? So don't whine when it happens again.

I've signed many too. Have someone look them over if you can (my wife's a lawyer) or read them yourself at least - but most are pretty standard. If you have an agent or manager, you don't have to sign them. Otherwise, you're kind of stuck. You should copyright too and keep track of where you send stuff, but yeah, you're always at risk and there's not much you can do about it. I met with a friend today who told me about two scripts he pitched, and then later got made with exact scenes from his pitch. Any recourse? Nope.

I'd never heard of it until your post. I definitely agree with the prize issue - connections/help over cash any day. And they haven't awarded ay of the cash yet, but when will they? When they take in $3,500, when they take in $10,000, when they take in $50,000? - who knows? Basically, I don't see any way that this contest will help a writer other than giving them (possibly) money. Or am I missing that?

Congrats Scott!

Oh - I didn't see that they needed 100. Thanks for posting that.

I was the Honorable Mention in Drama. I gave in my info too. It looks like they put up the Shorts winners, but not the Features yet. I haven't heard anything.

And congrats!

Yeah - I never put copyright, WGA or draft # info. It looks amateur. You should always copyright (or WGA) - it's understood. And a draft # tips off the reader as to where you are (Draft #1, Draft #87, etc.) and may bias them ("they sent me the first draft?", "they have 87 drafts?")

Then readers will say: "Perfect, huh? We'll see about that!"

I once wrote scathing stuff on moviebytes about Donna Lee's Hollywood Scriptwriting Institute (HSI) monthly contest - mainly about how she randomly wouldn't award prizes for some months and was pocketing the money while lumping together many months of scripts to one prize. Her website is down and HSI isn't listed on Moviebytes anymore. Does anyone know what happened? Just curious...

I didn't enter that one, but I've got your back!

I was Honorable Mention (2nd Place) in HSI a few years ago, but then recently, I entered and no winner was announced for several months. She made excuses (ones which I feel bad if they are true, but other Moviebyters posted that these were excuses she'd made in the past). She then bundled the 4 months of scripts she was late on and announced just one winner (and one runner up) instead of the monthly winners. That means 6 less winners (and prizes). But my point was - that regardless of why the results weren't given on time (let's face it, most contests post the results late!), there is still not reason for her to bundle several months. Her excuse was that it was late to announce the older contests. Like I said, if the scripts were read, there's no reason not to name winners. It showed me that she was just making excuses to not give out the prizes.

Those aren't the real screenwriters silly. The studio gets someone to fill their seat that looks pretty - like Milli Vanilli.

This brings up something interesting that I've been thinking about lately.

First let me say - I don't know John Schimmel, never used his services, his resume is very impressive, I'm sure he's a very smart and talented guy. So this post isn't specifically about him.

There has suddenly been a rush of former production/development/studio/etc. guys/girls making a business of giving script notes based on their years in the business. Overall, it seems that these people are currently out of work due to the hit the industry has taken (again, I'm not saying that means anything about their abilities) - let me know if I'm wrong about this. These people are pushing themselves based on their experience (some of which is quite impressive). Some tout that they'll help you get your script before their industry contacts if they like it.

I've used some of these services and just wanted to start a discussion about this. Is it worth it? Are these industry people any more worthwhile that the consultants (who have made a career in consulting)? Do they have their finger more on the current market vs. just writing a great script? Do they really help get scripts to their connections? Do they even have these connections? Basically, should we spend our money on them?

My experiences have been mixed. Let's face it - no matter what, it's just one guy with one opinion - and no one in this industry agrees. So is it a shot in the dark that this is the person who will stick their neck out for this script? The one thing that has bugged me is that often times they act like they're doing me a favor. I'm sorry, but I when I pay them, I'm doing THEM a favor. When my friends read a script for me during their busy schedules just to help me, they're doing ME a favor. Overall, I'm leaning toward sticking with my trusted consultants for now and not using these types again. But let me know what you think and what you've experienced.

I haven't yet either. I guess we have to wait and see how they help.

But the quality of the scripts is irrelevant. If she's taking the money, she has to award the promised prizes (and certificates).

Imagine if a contest announced a $10K 1st prize and $5K 2nd prize. Then, months late, they decide that they're only going to give one $1K prize. It's the same thing. She had read all the scripts. Her excuse for not awarding the prizes was that it was too late to award them? Huh? I don't know about you, but I've never turned down a prize that was given to me late.

That sounds like screenplay waiting to happen...

"Weremaid For Each Other"! Lol.

Good points. I appreciate the post Steven. And you speak highly of Schimmel. I'll consider him in the future.

Just moving this back to the top to see if anyone has comments...

Thanks Jim. Great post.

The person on the other end of a phone call (or a message on an answering machine) - is it V.O. or O.S.?

It seems everyone has a different opinion on this because every time I change it and give it to someone to read, they tell me it's the other one. Even a search online turned up opinions on both. To be honest, neither really fits.

Thanks.

Lol. See what I mean? Both are wrong for various reasons. Thanks.

I agree and I've made them V.O.

Thanks Bobette.

Oops - left off a "b" - Bobbette.

I find WAB to be an incredible convenience for scripts and films (even though you still have to mail the DVD). I find it takes much less time to use WAB than most other methods because you don't have to fill out anything (though some comps with online entry have quick, easy to use applications).

For sure, online submission is necessary in my opinion even if it's a few bucks more for paper - it's so much more convenient than putting together a package and waiting on line at the P.O. I'm being honest when I say that this has deterred me from submitting to a few contests that I was on the fence about.

The only issue I find with WAB is that it doesn't tell you if the comp wants a title page of info or just the title. And if you have both of those uploaded, there isn't a place to choose which one you want to send so I'm not sure what gets sent. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but other friends of mine have had trouble with this too.

I second that Andrew and have said this before. When I was a reader, was I really going to Pass on Casablanca because of a formatting mistake? But - you should absolutely do your best to get the typos out and keep the format correct because it pisses off a reader when you look amateur like that, so why piss them off? It's like handing in a resume with a coffee stain on it. Bill Gate will still get the job with the coffee stain, but you won't.

That's my other issue with WAB - discount codes don't seem to work there.

I only write them for my mom.

John seems to have a lot of fans here. I have a question - what genres of scripts have you guys given to him for notes?

Thanks.

Sun - thanks. The reason I'm asking - and I have no doubt that John is excellent at all genres - but I have an indie drama (very talky, 4 characters, 1 location) and I see his list of projects worked on (The Fugitive, Batman, Face/Off, etc.) and wonder if he's the guy for this script. So was wondering if anyone gave him anything in my genre.

Thanks.

Even "The Big White" seems like it has thriller aspects (hit men, etc.) I just don't want to give my "Greenberg" script to Michael Bay, you know what I mean? I'll see.

Cool - thanks Stephen.

Lots of familiar names on the list - congrats MBers!

I wish they would post the title though, I entered more than one. Congrats to all.

Definitely steel cage!

I'm just moving this to the top for someone who asked about it...

Moving this to the top for someone too...

Lately I've been saying as often as I can that we need to enter the contests that help us and stop entering the ones that don't. So in the spirit of that - I have a new drama script for this contest season and I'm going to post where I enter it and why. You guys can also do the same, you can tell me if I missed something good, or tell me if I'm making a mistake (if you want to).

I think there are 3 reasons to enter a contest:

1. Get read by the industry: the most jaded will say Nicholl is the only one that fits this bill, but there are other contests that have good sponsors and connections that will read you script if you place in the top few (not as many interested parties as Nicholl and not as deep into the placing scripts, but they still may be worthwhile).

2. Labs, retreats, festivals: some prizes include networking opportunities (Sundance, Cinestory, Austin, etc.) that are well worth attending if you manage to get accepted. Don't be fooled by some of these made up festivals that charge you for your ticket and don't help you at all. Other than these prizes and what I mention in #1 and #3, all other prizes are basically worthless in my opinion. They're good to take if you win them, but not worth entering "for" - as in, this is all you get. Money - always good, but you get better odds in Vegas. Inktip, e-query services, etc. - you may as well just pay for them instead of entering the contests. Final Draft - if you want to be a tennis pro, you don't enter a contest to win a racquet, you buy one. This is the only "equipment" you need to write (though I use Movie Magic). So either buy it or use a free one (Celtx), but don't enter a contest because you need it.

3. To make a connection with someone: you might enter a BlueCat because you've written a script like Love, Liza and think Gordy Hoffman will appreciate it. You might enter a script about Springsteen to Champion because you know Jim Mercurio is into him. You might enter Monterey (if it starts up again) because your script is set in Monterey and they might champion it. Local film festivals may champion your script and help get it to the right people. I know a script with Asbury Park in the title just won the Garden State Film Festival. All of these things and similar ideas are worthwhile and smart. Enter contests that play to your genre, location, social issue, etc.

So I'm starting off contests season with my low-budget, indie drama - basically 4 characters, 1 location, 83 pages. I'd love to direct it and may even produce it myself, but I'm going to see what people think in the contests and go from there. So I'm not going to enter comedy, horror, etc. contests. And I plan to hit the Labs (Sundance, Film Independent, Hamptons, etc.) So keep this mind for your submissions. I'll also be talking about contests as I enter, and all will be near the deadlines, which is more money, but I'm expecting more feedback on my script from at least two sources so I want to enter the most current draft.

SCRIPT SAVVY: I entered last night to make the March deadline (3/31). The best monthly contest by far. Everyone agrees that they give great notes. My Honorable Mention in 2088 and Win in 2009 got me the most reads of all my contest wins and placements. The bad news - it's a lot more competitive lately and will be these months for sure with all the new scripts going out.

BLUECAT: I believe they're in the top 5 of most entries (Nicholl, Austin, PAGE, BlueCat, Zoetrope?). There has been debate about the feedback, but it's free, so if you don't like it, throw it away. But there's no doubt that Gordy Hoffman is doing his best to champion the winners and finalists. I was a Top 5 Finalist in 2007 - my first placement that high, and Gordy has been great to me ever since. Look at what has happened with Ana Lily Amirpour's script (and short film) and other success stories. (Deadline 4/1).

WATERFRONT: Most of you probably don't know about Waterfront unless you're a filmmaker. It's a very well regarded film festival in Saugatuck, Michigan and I had the fortune of screening a short in 2007. My wife and I had an incredible time. We missed a family trip to Paris to attend, and my wife didn't even complain (that much). Their script contest used to be for scripts set in Michigan and they seemed to help those writers with Michigan connections. I finally have a script that could be set in Michigan so I entered, BUT that isn't mentioned on the website anymore. So it seems that rule may have changed, but I think the possibility of shooting in Michigan may be a plus (it won't be a minus for sure). I'd love to return to the festival and I think they could help me get it made if it wins or places high.

That's it so far. I'm looking at Scriptapalooza (I've never placed) coming up on the 15th and then a slew on May 1st and 15th (Nicholl, Sundance Lab, PAGE, etc.) When I enter, I'll update you.

Until then, please only support the contests that will help you.

In the past PAGE has extended so I emailed them and they said there will be another deadline after this.

Here's what Zoe said:

Early Entry Deadline: December 1, 2009 to January 15, 2010   $39

Regular Entry Deadline: January 16, 2010 to March 1, 2010     $49

Late Entry Deadline: March 2, 2010 to April 1, 2010   $59

Last Minute Deadline: April 2, 2010 to May 1, 2010  $69

FINAL Deadline: May 2, 2010 to May 15, 2010   $69

You're right James - I didn't list feedback. It didn't cross my mind. I used to pay a little more for the feedback from some contests, but now I just take that money and use 2 script analysts (I've mentioned them before so this isn't a plug: Bill Pace www.scripteach.com and Pilar Alessandra www.onthepage.tv) who I think are incredible.

But yeah, I guess that's a good reason. That's another plus I feel when I enter Script Savvy, and I really like A Feeding Frenzy because of the feedback (are they having a contest this year?) so I enter that one. But since I don't pay up for it from the contests, I'm not in a position to rate them. If someone feels that a certain contest gives them feedback that has been worthwhile, then it's worth entering - but you never know if you'll get the same reader. And I still feel it's better to just plunk down the $300 on an analyst that you feel strongly about. But that's just my opinion.

Walter - I was just going to write the exact same thing. Good post.

And Stephen - leave Hitler in the rom-com. Is it with Meg Ryan? Or more of a Judd Apatow type?

I don't know. I'd have to read it. And what may not offend me, may offend others. But Tarantino just showed Hilter in his film - though he was obliterated with machine gun fire in the end. (Hitler, not Tarantino - lol!)

Was it really insightful? Did he get what you were going for? Will you be using a lot of his notes? Will you go to him again? Not sure if you weird about posting this on a website so no worries if you don't want to - I understand.

Sorry about my spoiler.

Thanks Stephen.

Austin (5/15, 6/1 deadlines), PAGE (5/1, 5/15), Atlanta (8/21?), and Champion (5/15) are all on my list as definites for this script.

I'd post the list, but at the moment it's preliminary - it will change depending on feedback I'm going to get on my script in the next few weeks, how much I'm willing to spend, and second thoughts about some of the ones on my list (the list is a bit too long right now). But I will let you know as I enter - which ones I do and why. It may be close to the deadlines right now, but once I get my last few notes, I'll be entering earlier to save money on entry fees.

I can tell you that I'm doing Scriptapalooza (4/15 deadline) - I've never placed but they seem to have the connections. And for 5/1 - definitely Nicholl and the Sundance Lab (no need to explain these). I also have 2 maybes for 5/1.

Congrats Mike & Robert!

Hold your horses kids! I've only listed the ones that I've entered because the deadlines came up. I expect at least one more draft and so I am holding it back until deadlines.

But this is exactly why I started this post. We should all be helping each other to 1) pick the right contests that can help us, and to support them, and 2) not support the ones that don't and save our money. Please give input on my choices and/or the ones I haven't chosen.

I have 28 on my list - this is a bit too long. I'm going to cut some of these. That's why I haven't posted my list - still thinking about them.

But as I said, Scriptapalooza is on my list (4/15 deadline). As well as: CWA (4/15, 5/31), Slamdance (6/11), Script PIMP (5/1), and Nantucket (3/1?). I'll probably enter all of these, but haven't confirmed that yet. (Don't hold me to these deadlines - please double check them for yourselves!)

As for these 5:

Writers Place, Acclaim, Indie Gathering, Moondance, Gimme Credit

I once entered a short script and it placed in Gimme Credit, but I've never entered any of the others. PLEASE let us know if you've had good experiences with these, if they really help in some way... This is exactly what this post is for.

I agree - Script Savvy and A Feeding Frenzy have given me the best notes of the contests.

Yeah - Slamdance is one of the top film fests so I thought it would be great for networking if one placed highly. That's a bummer about your prizes.

And there was a rumor around this board (and I think Done Deal Pro) about a judge of the contest winning the contest. Does anyone know if this is really true? Where can I find this info? I'm still unsure if this was something that really happened or a rumor, but I'd like to know.

Don't worry Susan, I've made more than a few mistakes in the past. That's why I wanted to start this post. We should not be supporting those who aren't helping us in some way. That's money poorly spent.

Your ideas of entering your horror in Shriekfest and Screamfest, but not Cynosure (based on their past) is exactly the type of smart planning that should be done. I don't know anything about those horror contests, but you're hitting your genre.

Does anyone know anything about Moondance? When they first started, they rubbed me the wrong way - one of their first emails touted them as better than Sundance or something like that. That made consider it a ploy and I never entered. But they've been around for a while. Does anyone have a story (good or bad) to tell?

Bobbette - in this business I can't use "not hearing back" as the determination on something being a bad contest. The last time I didn't get return calls this much was when I was dating! Queries, messages, etc. - no one calls back. I think all contests should send out announcements (I've even had friend tell me I placed when I had no idea) - it's rude and unprofessional to not tell results. But I can't make that the thing that takes them off the list.

But .. thanks TJ on the Slamdance info - that's incredible if it's true. I just don't know how to verify it. I'll have trouble taking Slamdance off my list on a hearsay comment like that. I don't know.

I've called - no one picks up - and emailed to find out which of my scripts advanced. I find this very frustrating. If they're not going to post it, then they should email that info.

Bobbette - you have every right to be pissed and not support those contests. I just feel that's a much tougher battle than getting people to support contests that really help us (which we should be doing anyway). That said - AAA and Expo won't be on my list because of the personal attacked that Bill Donovan made against me after my letter to the editor. I don't expect others to follow this, but I don't want to support those contests. There are plenty for me to give money to.

Janet - that's exactly why this post is up here. We want to enter the ones that give us reads. But also - you definitely have to keep in mind that your genre or logline juts might not have appealed to the sponsors - you never know what they're looking for. I've won and placed in contests that others have gotten reads from, but I got none. I'm trying to keep an eye on this as I make my list. I don't want to miss one that others have had luck with, even if I didn't get reads.

Cold calling is something I want to do this year. I've done it a few times (but not much) and had mixed results. I have a script with a producer right now, but if that doesn't work out, we'll try cold calling. You just have to have a thick skin for rejection - not sure I do - lol!

Okay - Stephen Hoover showed me this and like any good writer, I'm stealing it (I'm joking... I meant "great writer") because this article illustrates the point well about where we should spend our money:

http://hollywoodroaster.wordpress.com/

"Honorable mention in obscure screenplay contest confirms writer's belief that she's the exception"

"Dubious accomplishment 'extremely validating'"

Lisa Straud moved to Los Angeles six years ago to pursue a career in screenwriting. Now, a mere 12 scripts later, her belief that she's a special talent has been proven true, she claims.

''How else would I have almost made the top three in the San Fernando Golden Cup Scriptathon?'' she asked. ''I was one of just four people that almost took third place. It's what I've been saying all along: I was born to write movies.''

According to Straud, the accomplishment is even more telling considering how much time she spent on the script.

''Less than a month,'' she said. ''I just banged that sucker out. It's like how John Hughes used to write movies in two days or whatever. It's in my blood.''

Straud, a waitress at a Chinese restaurant in Hollywood, also believes she'll be a great director someday.

''Most writers don't have the skill set required to helm a film. I'm not like most writers, though, am I?'' she asked, holding up the honorable mention certificate she printed out from her congratulatory email. ''Finally, some validation I can share with my friends and family.''

I also submit usually on the last day of the Savvy deadline and then get the feedback back the last day of the next month. But (I don't know if you typed this wrong) if you entered on April 5th, then you'd get the feedback by May 31st. I entered on March 31st to get it by April 30th - so I'd have it for the May 1st and 15th deadlines. You may get yours back earlier because you entered at the beginning of April, but there's no way it'll come by May 1st, maybe the 15th though - because these are probably the biggest months for submissions.

I'm also curious about VPF if anyone has experience with them.

On script consultants - I recommend Bill Pace (www.scripteach.com) and Pilar Alessandra (www.onthepage.tv).

Janet - about the contests that have gotten me reads and haven't - we mentioned this in the previous post about "contests that have gotten you reads" but I'll give a quick post here of the ones that have helped:

-Script Savvy has been the best for me (I had an Honorable Mention in 2008 and a Winner in 2009).

-My 2 All Access Finalists (Top 10) got me an e-query blast which for one script resulted in 5 to 10 requests, but 0 for the other. But I could've just paid for the e-query service instead of the contest (though it would've been more money).

-Cinema City (2nd Place) - Suzanne DeLaurentiis got me a bunch of reads.

-BlueCat (Top 5 Finalist) - Gordy got me a few reads and has been a great mentor.

-Queens Film Fest - my short script win led to a connection with a director at the festival for one of my features, but that seems to not be panning out.

Those are the ones that have come to mind as placing high and getting reads.

Where I've placed high and not gotten reads:

-PAGE (Finalist) - I'm absolutely entering PAGE again. Though my family adventure didn't get any requests, I know plenty of people who've gotten requests in the contest and it's one of the biggest.

-A Feeding Frenzy - As was mentioned here, Cheryl gives amazing notes and she really helped my rom-com (Needle in a Haystack) so I think it's worth the entry even if I didn't get any reads. Not sure if she's having a contest this year though.

-WorldFest Houston, Extreme Screenwriting, Movie Deal, Kids First, Action on Film, Movie Script Contest, Red Inkworks, Contest of Contest Winners - all Finalist or better for my feature scripts, but no requests I believe for me. But you have to take these all with a grain of salt. Like I mentioned about PAGE above, was my script just not interesting to their sponsors and producers, or do they just not have connections? That you have to research.

But I think that they send back your coverage as soon as it's ready and I imagine they go in order of receipt. So if you submit on April 1st you should get it way before someone who submits on April 30th.

Script Savvy - I can't recommend this contest enough. Though it does seem tougher and tougher (higher scores needed) to place. I had an Honorable Mention in 2008 and a Win in 2009, and both led to many reads - more than any of my other contest wins and placements. PLus, I think the feedback is great (and many agree). Donna really does her best to help get your script out there. And this is a monthly contest - so there's usually around 150 entries, and you get the results a month (or so) later. They've also been very reliable.

I'm all for your reasoning. Trust me. That's why this post is here. But you definitely have to keep in mind that script contests don't always equate to what the industry is looking for. Just keep that in mind. For example, I can't imagine someone not entering PAGE because I didn't get a read when they've had success with so many other scripts. You should absolutely check into each individually. But if you're not satisfied, cut them - by all means. Boy, I'm going to be on the contest black list this week - lol.

Also - I see WorldFest Houston on the list. But I'll be entering them next year with my new script. I'm also slated to win two awards this year. WorldFest has been very good to me with awards, including my first film award (I've won five) and it was the first film festival I was invited to and I had a blast (even if I was a bit shy back then). It's primarily a film festival and a very famous one. But no, no script reads for me.

E-query blast - my only experience is the ones I won through All Access (on the Sell A Script .com website). They seemed to do the job. And like I mentioned - the family adventure got 5 to 10 requests, but the comedy got none. And that's what mass e-querying is - hit or miss, just firing and hoping.

Again - I can't recommend the two I use enough:

Bill Pace: www.scripteach.com. I think $350 with printed notes and $225 without (you can just take notes like I do). He's read 8 of my scripts. A friend (in Ny, where I am too) recommended him and I think he's brilliant. Everyone I've sent to him has been very happy. It turns out another friend had a class with him and goes to him also - loves him. He's so insightful, no matter the genre, gets what you're going for. My scripts are definitely better after he reads them. I use 90-95% of what he gives me. If you're in NY, you can meet him in person. If not, over the phone or iChat I think. When I meet with him, he gives me general notes, ideas, possible solutions. Then he pages through my script which he's marked up (which I get to keep) where some of the bigger notes he mentioned are noted, but also small stuff good and bad (yes, he even points out things that made him laugh, were smart, his first reaction to things, etc.)

Pilar Alessandra: $300 I think. Who doesn't know her at this point? She's booked up months in advance. I recently made an appointment for June! You can meet with her in person if you're in LA. I do the phone call. She's also excellent. SHe's read 5 of my scripts and helped them all. Also, she gets any genre and what you're going for in your script. (This is most important for me).

That's the one-two punch I like. The rub - they're not cheap. You can find some good ones for cheaper, but I don't know them. There are also ones for much more money - I can't do that.

If you go to either, tell them I sent you. No I don't get a kickback. Wish I did - lol!

And yeah, that's another thing - Donna even calls months later with requests. She doesn't forget you.

Honorable Mention and a Win in 2009. Damn! I hope you didn't enter in March.

I'm working on an interview about all this stuff for an upcoming (next week's?) BlueCat Newsletter. I'll be pointing out this thread.

Trust me - you're preaching to the choir. I'm the one who started this thread and who is being completely transparent on my past experiences and future submissions. I'm surely not making excuses for the contests. And I don't care if I'm pissing people off. I'm putting myself on the line.

I'm just saying that whether my Finalist script was read by the industry or not shouldn't be the one make-or-break thing that forms your decision on which contests to enter. Some of these contests may have more than 10 Finalists, some may help you in other ways, some may not have promised reads, some may've been bad luck for my script with their sponsors --- or not. Check into it. And if you feel that you won't get what will help you/your career in a way you want to be helped, then DON'T submit. And this goes for EVERY contest, not just the ones that are mentioned in this thread.

Yes - Marjory said what I was trying to say. Thanks! For example, I have a very dark (violent, sexual) urban drama with a pretty standard sounding logline (but that's the story, it's the characters who are exciting). So I understand when it wins or places and people don't request it. I'm flattered on what you're saying, but it's no if Irin Evers got a read, but on if they've done their best to promote the winners and finalists, and have gotten reads for many. That's what I think. But that said, I do understand your point Janet and it's very valid.

Movie Script Contest - though my Finalist in 2008 didn't get any reads, I just had an Honorable Mention (8th Place) in 2009 (recently announced) and we'll see if I get any reads. So for me the jury is still out. And we'll see how others did in terms of requests.

And like I mentioned above - WorldFest Houston. I attended in 2005 with a film adnd had a great time (the BBQ, regatta race - my wife took home the huge trophy, NASA, films, metting people, etc.). I've never attended with a script, but it holds a big place in my heart as the first fest I was invited to and won a top award (Platinum for my film).

Margie-

We were both there in 2005?! That's crazy. We might have met at the bar at the hotel. It was my first fest so I didn't realize I should bring business cards and collect others. But I still keep in touch with Kenneth Bi (Rice Rhapsody - film) and Jon Reedholm (writer) that I met at that fest. My wife, me and Stuart Strutin (the distributor, I actually met him on the plane on the way out) were on the winning boat so we gave the trophy to my wife. Though it's on my office shelf - lol! That's funny if we met.

Mike - definitely speak to someone like an entertainment lawyer, who knows about all this kind of stuff. You definitely want good advice for this.

And congrats!!!

No problem and good luck with the contests!

My list is very similar to that - I have all of those listed (but that doesn't mean I'm going to enter all of them, this is just the starting list).

But I've also got the Labs: Sundance, Film Independent, Hamptons, Cinestory. You should definitely add Script Savvy. People on this board raved about Screenplay Festival - the judging is currently going on with results due in a few weeks. Slamdance is a top one - still not sure about this "judge winning story" so I'll enter it. I'm going to enter WorldFest because of my history there (my first film award). I entered Waterfront because I think it's something they might want to help get made in Michigan and again because of my history there (my 4th film screened). A Feeding Frenzy gives excellent notes, but I'm not sure if it's taking place this year. I'll probably enter Movie Deal because this would be a cheap script to shoot. I'm also considering Monterey (if it happens again), Cinequest, Vail and Nantucket.

And I believe that's my current list - but again, just of what I'm considering. I may add and subtract as the season goes on. I'm pretty sure I've only listed ones that I think can help.

Oh - I don't have Expo, AAA or Writers on the Storm on my list.

57 is a great score. I can't believe you didn't place with that.

Don't worry - no endorsements. And I may cut contests that I've mentioned. I just had to make a starting list. I'm glad it was very similar to yours so I'm probably on the right track.

I know them, but I don't think I've ever entered. I'm not sure.

I don't see you being disappointed with Pilar. She's excellent.

I'm pretty sure they send it when it's done rather than holding it back to send all at once.

I appreciate your list Janet, but it's not quite what I had in mind. Yes, you definitely want to avoid some contests, but this is like making a list of "10 Places NOT to Visit Before I Die" - you know what I mean? I think you should just worry about your list of ones to enter because there should be hundreds that you won't enter.

Congrats Mike!

I'll make the same comment I made a while back but still haven't gotten a good answer.

Almost of the musical films out there are based on previous material, and the remaining few are family/kids fare. And I think you have an original adult musical - but I could be wrong. I'd like someone to name an original musical film from the last 10 to 20 years. For example, Moulin Rouge isn't original, Enchanted is family/kids. So as a producer, I wouldn't see a track record for this sort of film.

I think the best way would be to submit it to stage producers and get it off the ground that way. Maybe get local performers to record the songs so you can send out a CD with the book and libretto so producers could see and hear the musical. Which makes me ask - do you have all the songs (music and lyrics) written? As a producer of stage of film musicals, I'd need to see what I'm buying.

So the songs that the female lead sings - are they original or are they songs we already know?

Oh wait - I see in your post. So they're songs that already exist.

Next submission:

SCRIPTAPALOOZA: I'll be entering tomorrow. That's the only contest on my list with a final deadline of 4/15 (I'm still getting feedback on my new script so I'm only entering final deadlines, but 4/15 is also an earlier deadline for Creative World Awards). As for Scriptapalooza - I've never placed in this one, but they seem to have connections with getting scripts out there.

Has anyone ever attended? What did you think about it?

Is anyone going this June?

Great post Heather - cool experiment.

Walter - I couldn't agree more. I just finished my interview for the BlueCat newsletter (an upcoming one) about the contests and one of the things I spoke about was how you can't just submit to contests, you have to do all the other things (from attending events/festivals, reading up, making films, cold calling, etc., etc., etc.) You have to hit this from every angle. I definitely spend more time managing my career and educating myself than I do writing. And everyone should be putting in this time for themselves. The contest route isn't the only way (and it's not necessarily the easiest either). I hadn't addressed it here just because I wanted to talk about the contests for spring contest season and our choices. But just entering contests is like wanting to be a singer and only trying out for American Idol, not doing anything else.

Nothing on imdb.pro or it's on the grid. By the way - there was something else with that name in 2006.

I was wondering if the 2006 Four Kings and the new one are related though.

I've won a free pass though. (But yeah, still airfare, hotel and other to pay for). I'm just not sure if I can do it and leave my wife with two infants so I'm trying to gauge how hard I should push, or just put it off until next year.

Lol.

Creative Screenwriting's AAA Contest extended the deadline AFTER the final deadline passed. I hate this (not that I entered) and feel it's completely unfair for those who submitted right at the deadline rather than taking a few more days. There's only one reason to do this, to get more entry fees. It only hurts the writers.

On the other hand - how about Silver not only lowering the price but immediately crediting back those of us who entered early (I entered with a previous script)? Now that's the way to do things - well done!

I subscribe and I like it. But it's more filmmaker focused, rather than screenwriting focused like Script and Creative Screenwriting. I love their annual "Guide to Making Movies Edition"- they have sections on each phase of moviemaking (screenwriting, pre-production, post, festivals, etc.) - with interesting articles about each. I also like their film festival sections and they've helped me choose some to submit my films to.

Congrats and thank you.

Awesome - congrats!

I'm not winning a Golden Ace though. That's very cool! Congrats.

Thanks!

Don't be silly (about the same level) and thanks for the info and advice. We're still trying to see if my wife can get some help with the kids - that might make it tough for me to go anyway. And yeah, I also want to go back to Austin too. Anyone want to babysit?!

John-

Thanks for coming on here and posting. We appreciate it.

I just wanted to comment on one thing because it may be referring to one of my posts and I think there's some confusion. I don't think anyone has posted about script consultants who can get scripts made because I can't imagine that that exists or ever has. I've started post about contests actually getting their winners (and finalists) read (just read) because there are now hundreds of contests and many promise access but don't delivery, and many don't even promise that - they just give cash awards or other prizes, which in my opinion is a waste and shouldn't be supported if they don't help the writer in some way (see my other posts).

I started another thread about this recent rush of script consultants who were in the business, many of whom are out of work due to the downsizing. Many of them promise to use their connections to help you get reads (producers, agents and/or managers) if they like your script. So I started a thread asking about this to see if this is true - do they really help? Are they worth the money? Are they even good script consultants? Or is this just a gimmick by people who have no pull whatsoever just to get work? I happen to know someone who went to one of these people and was told that their script was in the top few of the thousand read, but then the writer received no help at all so that's why I questioned these promises (no, I can't say which writer or analyst).

I agree. That's why I started that thread about these new consultants who promise access. And through that, I learned of the person who was complimented much, but the access promises did not come through. Writers need to be wary of these claims. You're not adding to my pain, I just wanted to expose those who (not surprisingly) aren't giving what they promise.

Great post. Thanks!

Why - did Dan Gomez join DDP?!

The best starting point for a rough one is: Protagonist, what they want, plot point 1 (what sets everything into motion), the stakes.

Yes - also, check imdb for similar films and model your logline off ones you like.

And I also completely hate 1 or 2 page synopses. Not matter how you cut it, you don't get the character development of a drama or the really funny stuff of a comedy - you can't equate 110 pages to 2 and expect it to all feel right. If I'm asked for them, I often ignore the request unless it's demanded. I feel like it's for people looking for a reason to say no. But that's just my opinion.

Get this man into contest addiction therapy. Maybe we can get a group rate?

If 1st Place also includes an inktip listing, I'm in.

I don't have any answers for you, but now is the time to approach a manager or agent. The rub, you'd be giving away a percentage. But the plus, you'd sign the a rep which should help in the future and help you through this process - even if they won't be trying for more money for you, they may help you to see all the options you should have. Preferably, speak to an agent or manager who you've been in touch with before, maybe someone who's given you help or feedback. With the ball rolling like this, you might be able to sign with someone.

And congrats!

Okay, so the next group of deadlines is coming up and this is where I'm entering my indie drama... Again, keep in mind that these will only be the ones with a FINAL deadline of May 1st. Any that have another deadline (5/15, 6/1 or later) will be entered at a later point in case I make any more changes. But if you want to save money, there may be earlier deadlines.

NICHOLL FELLOWSHIPS: Do I even have to say why? This the top contest with the greatest reputation by far.

SUNDANCE SCREENWRITERS LAB: This a great thing for anyone that has an indie type script (not a commercial blockbuster type). The Lab is huge for making connections, getting help, and an honor to be selected for. But - there are only a few places (around 10 I think) and half of those (I've heard) are through invites. So you're competing for only a few places and you never know what the Sundance crew is looking for. Also (just so you know), the application is a statement of interest, a synopsis, only the first FIVE pages of your script (for now - the full script is requested during the summer if you advance), and this stuff needs to be mailed (so I think postmarked by 5/1, but check that).

SCRIPT PIMP: I've never advanced in this one, but I'm going to give it another shot. They seem to have interested connections. Though I don't personally know of anyone who has experience with them. Anyone?

That's all for now. Coming up for 5/15: PAGE, Champion. And 5/31 & 6/1: Silver, Austin, Creative World Awards, Final Draft Big Break. And 6/11: Slamdance. I'm probably entering all of those, but I'm not 100% sure yet.

I think BlueCat extended to May 1st for resubmitting previously submitted scripts.

The logline you have isn't a logline though, it's a tagline. "If adventure had a name, it would be Indiana Jones." "In space no one can hear you scream." No one wants this because the marketing department comes up with it. The logline should be more like what you'd see when you hit info on your cable TV guide, or what's on imdb. Basically one line of what the film is actually about - the protagonist and journey. The two lines above don't tell me what those films are about, just that they are action (Raiders) and horror in space (Alien, or was that Aliens?) You're being asked for a logline so people will know what the script is about, not how it would be marketed.

You should take the synopsis paragraph (which is fine for that_ and cut it down to one sentence. I know that sucks, but it's what people want. Think of it as what you'd answer when your friend says - oh you saw The Hurt Locker? What was it about? The answer is the logline.

Here - I looked up The Hurt Locker on imdb since it's the one I just mentioned. Your friend asks "what's this film about?"

"You don't have to be a hero to do this job. But it helps."

"Iraq. Forced to play a dangerous game of cat-and-mouse in the chaos of war, an elite Army bomb squad unit must come together in a city where everyone is a potential enemy and every object could be a deadly bomb."

The first is the tagline on the movie poster. The second is the logline. You'd answer the second to your friend.

And here's a one paragraph synopsis:

"An intense portrayal of elite soldiers who have one of the most dangerous jobs in the world: disarming bombs in the heat of combat. When a new sergeant, James, takes over a highly trained bomb disposal team amidst violent conflict, he surprises his two subordinates, Sanborn and Eldridge, by recklessly plunging them into a deadly game of urban combat. James behaves as if he's indifferent to death. As the men struggle to control their wild new leader, the city explodes into chaos, and James' true character reveals itself in a way that will change each man forever."

I hope this helps.

No prob.

I just saw it too. Thanks and congrats Robert!

I Assistant Produced a comedy TV pilot that played at last year's festival and just wanted to recommend it. There are seminars with people in the industry as well as screenings. The festival is run well and is known. This contest sounds like a great opportunity.

That part seems like a mistake. I don't know.

I appreciate the post, but this is a thread about the screenplay contests. Can you tell us what script you have post on VPF and who you got responses from? I don't recognize your name as a regular poster.

Yes - sorry Mahree. I see you on goggle now. You didn't have anything on moviebytes, I hadn't seen you before, and I forgot the VPF mention. There's been a bunch of people lately posting for the first time and raving about services that seem like "plants"- you know what I mean? I apologize for thinking that about you.

I have never used VPF, but I do have them on my list as a possible option with my comedy spec in the near future.

Thanks Julia.

I hear what you're saying but to get in the top 5 to be read by Radmin and Foremost doesn't impress me much because although those are very good companies, they're also very open to queries. Both of them have read several of my scripts. I'm not trashing StoryPros - I have no experience with them, but just letting you know why I didn't enter.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Two of those companies are companies that I've found I'm able to get to read my stuff (or at the very least will look at a query). If I place in the top 5, I'd like to get access to companies that I can't usually get access to. You know what I mean? I'm not knocking StoryPros. I don't know the success stories. I'm just telling my reasons for not having entered.

I just saw it! Congrats Stephen and Cheryl!

Yes - it was neat to see us right next to each other, Cheryl! And no problem - anytime. I've had a lot of friends (from moviebytes and elsewhere) do me favors, read scripts for opinions/notes, etc. And we still have to meet up the next time I come out to CT. Maybe I'll take my daughter to the aquarium again.

Congrats James!

I HATE when contests extend their deadlines after the deadline - it's unfair to writers who would take more time and pay more. Creative Screenwriting's AAA and Expo do this routinely and it's horrible.

PAGE - they do this every year too, but unlike CS's contests, they have decided beforehand but they don't post it on their website. (CS seems to check how much money they've taken in and how many entries and then they decide if the want/need more). I had emailed PAGE to check (the last deadline is 5/15) and mentioned it in a previous post. But yeah, I only knew this because I sent mine too early last year so I checked with them this year. They should just list all the deadlines on their website.

(Yes - I placed high last year, but didn't win the The Junior Detectives unfortuantely, but I'm not re-entering it, I'm entering my new scripts this year).

Yeah - congrats Robert!

Producers can figure it out for you. You can get someone probably on mandy.com. Someone would have to look at the script, break it down - to get a decent estimate. But if you just want a real big ballpark - you may be able to just ask someone or pay them a little. The big variables are actors - are they deferred (no money now) or getting paid, and if paid - how much? (That's a huge difference in the budget). How many days for shooting? Where will it be shot? And there are other big questions that will really affect the cost. No one wants to tell you a price without doing the work and then be completely off. Also, if they put in work, they want to get paid.

Of course - shooting on 35mm, 16mm or HD - big differences in the budget. And the producer would want to figure out the workflow to guess the post-production costs. (The workflow is: what are you shooting on, what are you editing in and how do you get it there, where are you doing the sound mix, how are you putting this all together, what are you outputting it on, etc.)

This is why no one is giving you a quick cost, especially without reading your script. If you're shooting on 16mm for 25 days in many locations with a small name TV actor vs. 5 locations on HD and deferred SAG actors over 18 days - big difference.

Hi Andrea-

I'm curious what the "consideration by top production companies and Hollywood executives" means? Is there a list of companies that are lined up to read the winners. Otherwise, it sounds like a contest for representation at your management company (with some prizes - cash and goods).

I also didn't mean you have to do a full breakdown yet (all the scenes, characters, props, etc.), but for someone to estimate your cost, they'd have to read the script and take some notes (how many locations, day or night, how many actors and extras, costumes, etc.)

Just trying to let you know why no one can just pop out a cost number to you. There are a lot of variables.

I made a 10 HD minute short (including submissions) for about $1,500, but I also made a 6 minute HD short (also, including submissions) for $10K. I made a 50 minute HD feature (also including submissions and even color correction) for $20K - twice the price of the 6 minute short but almost 9 times as long. I had many, many favors on that one, but I also was savvy with locations (I shot New Jersey for Mexico) and the script called for only a few characters, everyone worked for free - though there were some complicated scenes (on bikes that we shot out of the side of a van).

Thanks.

Eric?

My problem is contests like AAA and Expo that add on another deadline after declaring that this will be the last in an obvious effort for more money. And they announce it after the "final" one has passed. Then they announce the results late, which matters for something like the Expo because some people can't make it on short notice.

PAGE knew these deadlines long ago and I posted them on a previous thread. I asked them for their deadlines because this happened to me last year - I would've held off for an extension.

The only mistake PAGE has made here is not listing all their deadlines right off the bat on their website with prices - then writers could make their own decisions on deadlines/costs. That should be changed. Otherwise, it's a great contest.

I highly recommend shooting shorts. You may love it and it will absolutely help your writing.

A short is definitely less work in some respects and absolutely cheaper. But in another way - it's the same work. It's like the difference between planning a wedding for 300 people or for 30 people - you still have to pick food, get flowers, someone to marry you, a band, tables, chairs, a cake, etc. - you just need less of each thing for the smaller one, but the steps are basically all there. So there's still a lot to deal with. Keep this in mind and work your butt off in pre-production.

I completely forgot about this. They never responded to my message or my email - just trying to find out which one of my scripts advanced. That's really lame. They should post that info or email us or at least respond to the question. It's not too much to ask which script advanced.

I just checked my messages on winningscripts and was surprised to find that over the years: 4 producers requested a script and 1 rep.

Yeah - the email part. In winningscripts.com, submit/edit listings, then click on reports. Those are the emails that were sent to you via winningscripts.

I was surprised to see that many actually. None panned out though.

Yeah - Paula, after you shoot something (anything) you'll notice a huge change to your writing. It'll become more visual. You'll be blocking the action in your head from the camera. You'll even write the description as shots. This all makes it much clearer I think, and often more sparse but understandable.

Quarterfinals. There's a list on the website (after you page through the Fade In Awards thing), you click on and get a list of writers (not which scripts).

Sorry Andrea. I can't argue with Jack on this one.

Thanks - yeah, I'll let you know too.

A new deadline is approaching (May 15th) so it's time for an update:

First of all, I'm not doing too well so far - 0 for 2 (Waterfront and Script Savvy). I'll have to reconsider things if this continues.

Two May 15th final deadlines are almost here that I'll be entering in the next few days:

PAGE INTERNATIONAL: One of the top contests in terms of most submissions and we all love that they break it down into categories. There's rarely a bad word about this contest. I was a Finalist but didn't get any reads, however, I've heard from many others who have. The contest is run well and Jennifer and Zoe are always on top of things.

CHAMPION: Jim Mercurio seems to have put together a good competition here and I think he'll do his best to get reads for the top scripts. There's also a $10K Grand Prize and seats will be given out to Jim's Screenwriting Lab. (Actually, there's seems to be an even later deadline of 7/30, so I may wait.)

Silver and Austin also have May 15th deadlines, but I'll be waiting until their June 1st final deadlines. Also coming up: Creative World Awards (May 31st), Final Draft Big Break (June 1st), Slamdance (June 11th).

Yes - I'm going to postpone my Champion entry (sorry, Jim) because it seems silly for me to not take the extra 2 1/2 months for $5 when I might make more changes. So that one is pushed back on my list right now.

That's crazy. I've never heard anything like that. Sorry.

That's great. Did they now say that they really had requested the script or not?

(I mean the first time).

That's a great idea Jim.

You want a short to "play" for less than 30 minutes so the script should be under 30 pages, preferably a bunch less because sometimes things are really longer than a page a minute.

Congrats everyone!

But yeah, it'll be a lot tougher. If a festival accepts your 40 minute short, that takes the place of two 20 minute shorts in the block.

No problem James. I don't think being from the UK will hurt you. You can also ask fellow-UK resident Mike Donald for advice. His email is probably listed and he posts here.

I'm a big fan of consultants. You have to find one that's a right match for you - someone that gives you notes that you agree with, execute and feel the script gets better because of them. This is not an ad, but two consultants that I've used for many years over many scripts are Bill Pace (www.scripteach.com) and Pilar Alessandra (www.onthepage.tv). I think highly of them both, but there are also other great ones out there and ones that are cheaper (the two I mentioned are around $300) and even more expensive. I go to a consultant before I go to the contests and also get opinions from friends that I trust (and who are honest).

Thanks Hallie. Yeah - I've been meaning to post on DD more too.

Great post Stephen.

Congrats!

But a reader for a production company doesn't need to be encouraging. Only analysts who are worried about offending clients need to be. When I wrote coverage, I didn't have to be nice, the writer would never see it. But I had to be honest. I had to see a diamond in the rough. The job wasn't "trash the script," but "should we consider making this movie" - and if so, what changes might have to be made to the script. But the job also wasn't "encourage the writer."

But I do agree that covering scripts helped my writing an incredible amount. It helped me to really understand the format and how to troubleshoot while getting what the writer was going for. Hopefully this translates to my own script problems. And reading a great script and seeing what was done right, was huge too. I definitely recommend reading unproduced specs.

Yeah, absolutely. You have to give the good notes but keep the writer focused (and not too depressed) to execute them. Pilar is obviously good at this. I'm not so good at that and then people hate me - lol. I think that takes real talent as well.

This question seems to come up every few months.

Honestly, copyright. Yeah it's $35 compared to $22, but in the long run it's so much better. It's for your life (actually longer), not 10 years like WGA. It holds up in court. Someone mentioned how if you actually have an issue you need to prove, then you'll have to copyright anyway and maybe expedite ($760). I know WGA is quicker online, but copyright is also online now and once you do it once, all your info is saved and it's pretty quick. For $13 more, it's seems shortsighted to me do WGA instead.

I copyright my outline and then my first draft. Sometimes even a later draft with bigger changes.

Yeah - I'm paranoid like that! I do sometimes show it to friends for opinions to make sure I'm on the right path, but I used to do that more in past, now it's rare that I do so. I trust my gut more now, for better or worse.

Congrats! Fingers crossed.

Oh no - Janet they've found out that we are one person! That's the sixth sign. Put all plans into motion.

I did always want to be a man with a Corvette.

I'm finding this really frustrating. I entered 3 scripts and have both left messages at the office and emailed 3 times now just to find out which of my scripts advanced. And I haven't gotten a response yet. All I want to know is which scripts advance - not too much to ask. It's really making me think very little of this contest.

Yes - avoid these types of things.

Next round of submissions:

So some deadlines are coming up after this weekend and I'm going to submit tomorrow to get it out of the way.

CREATIVE WORLD AWARDS: I was a Semifinalist once and it didn't lead to anything, but this relatively new comp seems to have the connections and they seem to go out of their way to help writers. 5/31 deadline, but there is also a 6/30 deadline for just $5 more - but I'm going to enter now.

SILVER: Also, relatively new comp. I was a Quarterfinalist once. I continually hear great things about Julie Gray. 6/1 deadline.

AUSTIN: One of the top contests. They probably receive the 2nd most entires (after Nicholl). I was a Second Rounder in 2008, attended and had a great time, met great friends (many on this board - Heather, John A., etc.), got inspired, and advice at the fest led to me getting an agent. I saw an early screening of Slumdog Millionaire and Danny Boyle remembered my name a few days later. An incredible experience and easy to network. 6/1 deadline.

FINAL DRAFT BIG BREAK: I haven't had any luck with them, but they seem to have connections and I'm giving it another shot. 6/1 deadline, there's also a 6/15 for $15 more.

SLAMDANCE: One of the top film fests in the world. I made the first cut once and going to try again. 6/11 deadline, and a later one for $15 more.

I'm now going to take a break and wait for some results. I don't plan to enter any more until late July.

Good luck!

I already booked a room at the Driskill too! It still depends on the wife and kids, but hopefully we meet up in Austin this fall. Yeah, I found it to be an incredible experience. I got lucky in meeting a bunch of good people to hang out with so it wasn't so overwhelming.

The Knuckleballer is back and in better shape! Crap! I was hoping that guy retired!

The Driskill is where most of the festival (seminars, roundtables) take place. Some also takes place at the Stephen Austin across the street. The Driskill bar is also the place to be. Parties are scattered around, but they are all walking distance or via shuttle bus or cab if you really want to. But there's no need for a car. Either of those two hotels works great but they are also of course, the most expensive. The further you advance in the contest, the more of a discount you get though.

You also might be able to find someone to split a room with.

I think there is actually a big football game that weekend - I forget where I saw that. So definitely book something and you can always cancel it later.

You might not need a car if you plan on staying near the Driskill/Stephen Austin all day - then maybe you can take a cab home at night and a bus or cab in morning. I'm not sure what parking is like in Austin (I'm a NYer). It might be okay to rent and park.

-i

Congrats Robert & Susan!

I've had 3 groups in NY - my most recent seems to have recently fallen apart, but it's been tough for me anyway now that I have two kids and moved out of the city.

My first group was incredible because it ultimately turned into a film group and we all made shorts together - that was my film school. They taught me everything about directing and producing, something I don't know if I would've found otherwise. Also, this was incredibly supportive but honest group and they kept helping me get better. We had a reunion last year. I'm very grateful to them.

My second group didn't last long. My third last for a while longer and was made up of other former readers. It was definitely helpful and fun.

The one big perk is that you hear your words out loud (even if the acting is poor) and you can hear stuff immediately that doesn't work. If you disagree with the notes, you can throw them out, but hopefully you find a supportive, helpful, honest bunch of people. Otherwise it's probably a waste. A group is also great for deadlines.

The problem I had is that I spend a lot of time on the outline, which I don't like to show until I'm happy with it. Then I write my script very quickly - within two weeks. So I'd go from never bringing in pages for a month or a few months, and then having a completed script that I'd want opinions on - but you can't expect people to sit and read 100 pages out loud in one after work sitting. And I wanted notes on the full script, not just the batches of 10 or 20 pages.

PAGE lets you send in your most recent draft if you make the Finals.

Yes - every contest should do this. As the months go by, we've all fixed up our scripts. If there's a small group of Finalists (or Semis) and the scripts are going to new judges anyway, it seems like a no-brainer.

Never heard of that before either.

I think you have to cancel a month before or you have to pay - double check that and put it on your calendar.

Look for Heather's Austin info from 2008 (that really helped me - thanks HH!) and I think she had one last year too. Heather - where can he find that?

But yes, basically people do the 3 1/2 days. I flew in on Wednesday so I could register that day, wake up in the hotel on Thursday and get started. Though many fly in on Thursday. There's also a Food & Film event Wednesday night - I didn't go last year, but wish I had. Thursday, Friday and Saturday - seminars and roundtables all day, films and parties at night (especially Saturday night where there's several parties and I even went to an after hours in the Driskill). Sunday is the brunch. There are a few roundtables after that (I stayed for one), but most people leave after brunch. A few stay until later in the week - there are just films for the rest of the festival, but most writers will leave Sunday (or Monday).

I don't think they've announced the Semis yet though. The only posting I see is the Quarters, and they still haven't returned any of calls or emails about which of my scripts advanced.

And Stephen wins it! Congrats!

Also congrats to Mike Donald for taking the Thriller category!

Congrats to Mike on winning Savvy!

Yes - Script Savvy led to a bunch of requests for me too.

Congrats guys!

Unfortunately many contests announce late - that doesn't make the CS Open a scam. The CS contests (Expo, AAA) are notorious for this - adding on deadlines to make a few extra bucks, then announcing late. Bill Donovan refuses to listen to this complaint (among many others). And sometimes this is to the detriment of the writers, as when they only gave a week's notice to the top few to attend last year's Expo.

I don't get it at all. Most of these contests have taken place for years and it should be easy to guess. But it reminds me of one of the late (original) Star Trek movies where Scottie admits that he always said it would take longer to do something then he really expected it to take - explaining why he always got them out of danger just in time. If I ran a contest and thought the results would be ready on June 1st, I'd say June 15th and look like a hero when they're early.

But no, the CS Open is not a scam as far as I know.

I still don't think it's a scam, but I won't argue with you about Donovan!

The Creative Screenwriting Cyberspace Open Spring 2010 Proudly Congratulates Our Top Three: Ian Murillo 95.14 Dries Coomans 94.85 Lisa Scott 94.43 Ian, Dries and Lisa, your scenes will be performed by actors in staged readings which we will videotape and put up on the web for everyone to vote on the winner! We will notify everyone via e-mail or newsletter when the scenes are online and ready to be voted on.

Honorable mention must go to Diane Lisa Johnson, whose scene missed the top 3 by a hair (94.42.) How We Tabulated The Top Scores: Each scene in Round 2 was read and scored by a reader from Coverage, Ink. The top twelve scoring scenes were then circulated to the entire team. Seven readers read and gave a numerical grade to each of the top twelve scenes. The winners were determined by averaging the scores. Because of this, in some cases, some folks scored higher from the individual judge but lower in the aggregate, while for others the reverse was true. But in the end, the three scenes selected were the ones the team all agreed were the best of the best. Congratulations to the remainder of our top twelve for dishing out some truly killer writing: Tim Harding 94.28 Philip Schneider 94.28 Walter Thompson 93.86 Erik Fetler 93.71 Crystal Ann Taylor 93.71 Marcys Leary 93.57 Rich Frost 93.42 Kimberly Nunley 92.85 Thanks again, everyone! We hope you all had a blast participating! P.S. Genre prize winners (and runners up) will be hearing from us shortly with regards to how to claim your prizes.

I incorporated as an S-Corp when I made my 2nd film. It's good to form a something (I don't know the differences between Inc and LLC) to protect yourself plus you may as well write off your expenses of the film against your personal income (S-Corp does that). Look online or ask a professional so you do the right thing. I think you can form these things cheap now at places like legal zoom. PLus you get a seal - what more could you ask for?!

You need insurance for some equipment rentals and locations. You need workers comp for SAG I think (it's been a while). But if you're just going run-and-gun with a friends camera (or in your house), you can skip the insurance which will save you a bit of money.

I also got one logline request thru Screenplay Festival.

Thanks Carl.

I have nothing against StoryPros and have come close to entering several times (I like the genre categories). Every time I almost enter, I end up not doing it because I'm not sure about the access they get. Again, this may just be from my lack of knowledge of the contest. Has anyone gotten reads from placing high in StoryPros?

I agree Robert. Plus, the list of ones I wouldn't enter is in hundreds. It's better to focus on the ones TO enter.

I agree. Janet's trying to do something good here so there's no need to slam her. That's what turns off a lot of good people from this board.

Congrats Stephen!

Was the feedback included in the basic price or additional?

That's great that StoryPros is getting you to a management company.

I think they're just worried that they can't get an A list actor as the main character to bank the film vs. a bunch of smaller actors (figuring that an A list won't take a small role - yes, I know exceptions to that as well).

I was just curious in terms of price because I don't pay for feedback from contests. I use that money to go to two analysts.

Congrats!

Good point.

When I saw that there was an article in this new issue of Entertainment Weekly called ""What's wrong with this summer's movies" on p.38-40, I expected more of the same, but Mark Harris has put in print what me and my friends (and I'm sure many of you) have been saying for a long time now. It was great to read. Viewers are to blame as much as Hollywood though - - as long as people pay for Shrek 4, you can expect Shrek 5. But maybe with some poor sales, Hollywood will wake up and take some chances again.

Yes - Final Draft Big Break coming up. Also - Creative World Awards, Slamdance, Movie Script Contest, Champion, Screenplay Festival, Zoetrope, Atlanta, Tracking B - those are the ones that I MAY enter through the end of the summer. Some of these are the final deadlines so they'll be pricey now.

Thanks.

And the script is a whopping 84 pages now. I hear you on adding a bit more in the page count, but I hate to force it and I'm considering shooting it, so the length is good for that.

You can see more opinions of Bill and CS on Done Deal Pro. I know people were pissed after that "editorial" that revealed the entire plot, twists, ending for that horror movie on the ski lift.

Yeah - I'd think some of the value is getting you in the door to be able to submit your next one. Or helping you get a rep. I would think that applies for lots of specs (not just contest winners). But I don't know.

I hope the shoot (or pre-production if you're about the start) is going well, Jim. Break a leg!

I agree with Robert. I know that was a hard post to write (your first reply) because you didn't want it taken the wrong way.

Brooke - yeah, it's tough to find a good collaborator. I've been very lucky to have met mine at a film festival and he's incredibly talented (except for when he disagrees with me!)

If you want I'll read your script and give you feedback - no charge, no percentage. But I'm VERY honest. I'm going to tell it like I see it - which you don't have to agree with. Contact me through my website: www.neuroticboyproductions.com

I have one script to read ahead of yours (a friends, just for fun) hopefully this week, if the kids cooperate.

But I wouldn't have time to write for it or make changes. Time has been tough for me lately. And if you can fix it yourself, I think you'd be better off.

I think Creative Screenwriting has one and I think Script Savvy may too (I think you used to get it for entering the monthly contest).

What are you supposed to do with it?

I think copyright is yours (your family's) for a number of years after your death.

On copyright taking so long - you get a confirmation of receipt online (if you're mailing, send it return receipt or FedEx/UPS). As soon as it's confirmed or delivery, you are copyrighted. Wait a day or so and you can submit without worry. It's kind of timestamped. When you get the copyright form, it's copyrighted from the day of receipt, not the day they finally processed it.

If you are doing either to have a number to put on your script, I'm not sure why. I've never done that and never been asked to, plus it looks amateur in my opinion.

Stephen - 4?! Damn!

Congrats Murph, Steve, Eric, Dana, Tim, etc.

I struck out unfortunately.

I didn't think I'd advance, but then I resubmitted and the reviewer seemed to rave about the script, only pointing out a few minor things on the bad side. I thought that draft would advance.

I'm not sure why the contests needed it. On inktip, I typed something like "awaiting" in that box.

Congrats Frederick and Steven A. and Timothy...

I think they send letters right in the beginning of September.

I capitalize sounds, but honestly, it don't think it matters. Like it was said - as long as it's consistent. No reader is going to pass on a script because sounds are capitalized or not. I wouldn't worry about it.

Congrats Stephen!

Same here - I've gotten the most requests of any of my contest placements from Script Savvy. And the feedback is great.

Congrats on your success so far. TrackingB is on my list to enter.

I used to have a synopsis/treatment for each of my scripts because people seemed to want them before reading a script. But in the past year or two, I've made it a rule not to write them or give them. I feel that they (especially the two page ones) are just for people who are looking for a reason to pass on your script. It's like giving them free coverage so they don't have to read the script. I've never seen one that impressed me. The comedies lose their humor, the dramas lose their heart, the nuances disappear. If people request them, I ask if they'll just read the first few pages of the script instead. If not, so be it.

Oh! Yes, then you're stuck writing the treatment. I hope it goes well.

I've said this before and I know you disagree with me, but original musical movies are a hard sell and they are not being sought after by Hollywood. We can name plenty that are based on pre-sold material (books, sequels, stage musicals, etc.), but it's difficult to name a handful (maybe even any) in the past decade that are original. So that might be why you're not getting requests. Contest wins only lead to reads if the companies who know about the contest are looking for that type of material. Nicholl has so many people interest that someone is bound to read your genre, but in smaller contests, a $100M sci-fi piece just might be way out of the budget of the small companies that might request, etc. You might be better off targeting stage musical producers as well.

But that doesn't mean you should write musicals because I know you love them. Just keep the marketing in mind. That's why I suggested stage producers too. Don't be surprised if there aren't a lot of requests.

Last year I wrote an urban drama that's very violent and sexual, very dark drama. It's not for everyone, but I had to write it. Even when it won Script Savvy (got a 59 out of 60), it only got a few requests, and overall, it has gotten very few reads. But I knew that would happen and planned some submissions - Sundance Lab, Film Indepenedent Lab, Lee Daniels Entertainment, etc. No one seems interested so it's on the shelf, but I'm hopeful I'll get it made someday.

Radmin is a management company. People may be referring to Filmmaker.com's contest which I think (don't quote me on this, I haven't entered) is at the very least sponsored by Radmin and may be run by Radmin. I took it off my list a long time ago when the contest had a clause that they'd get 7% of your script sale (or something like that). They've since gotten rid of that, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

The "they" I was referring to in terms of the 7% is Filmmakers.com. So the contest had a clause that they get 7% (nothing to do with Radmin, who I assume would take 10-15% if they sold it for you). And the 7% seemed like a vague clause where I felt that they could come back and ask for it even if they really didn't help to sell it. I didn't like that. Not that taking 7% from all contest scripts would amount to much these days!

I completely agree that a lot of crap gets made, but sometimes the script is actually well written but gets ruined through rewriting, production, editing, marketing, etc. I forget the link to the article, but read how that bad Robin Hood movie that just came out happened even though it started with a smart, original script (Nottingham). Does anyone have that link?

There was mistake and they sent out an email that mentioned the entries from last year. They just resent it so the new email should be correct.

I moved ahead with my 3 latest scripts luckily. Congrats to the rest of you who did as well.

Congrats Stephen!

I'm finding it incredibly frustrating. I've now both emailed and left messages on their voicemail 3 times just to find out which of my scripts placed - no response. They still haven't announced the next round. How will they help someone's script if they don't even answer a simple email on results? I wonder if this contest is even continuing to be honest.

Congrats guys! Stephen - 3! I'm in there with my collaborator John Barlowe.

I missed me too - I looked under "Evers" and was bummed at first.

Thanks.

Congrats everyone!

Thanks for posting the blog. I wanted to read it.

But you should also know that the writer later claimed that she was not referring to Silver even though she has judged it before.

This is one of the most interesting threads on here in a long time. To be honest, I keep going back and forth on whether a reader of a contest needs to read the full script, 30 pages, or even 10 pages. I understand the arguments for both sides. It's tough.

When I was a reader (for a few companies in NY, my longest stint was at Andrew Lauren Productions), we always had to not only read the whole script, but provide a one page synopsis. And there we actually had weekly meetings to chat about the script (that's why I stayed so long - it was great to meet with the other readers and an exec and discuss (even disagree) about the scripts). ALP sponsored Slamdance's Skyline Awards and we had to read the Finalists to judge them. Again, we had to read full scripts. I'm not sure how other companies do it, but this was my experience.

However, you could tell within a few pages (99% of the time by page 10) if this was going to be a "consider" or a "pass" - and I'm talking about scripts from the top agencies and managers, other producers, even directors. Most of you have read on Triggerstreet or Zoetrope or something similar and you know what I mean. So that beginning has to be great. I finally just read the much hyped Killing on Carnival Row and I really liked it. You can tell from the first few pages why people were talking about it.

Thanks for posting that Greg.

I can help with this (Stephen, Marjory) - after I heard about the original post, I went to the website, but was too late. A retraction was posted. That retraction was removed quickly as well and replaced with the one you have above (saying it doesn't reflect upon Silver, Julie Gray, etc.) I'm not sure why the first one was pulled, but I happened to cut and paste it to show it to someone at the time and here it is:

Congratulations!

I've taken down the controversial post about contest judging.

The haterade is not worth it.

Sad for the people who learned something about what contest judges look for and those who actually want to LEARN about the business of screenwriting.

And some of the posts are saying I judged The Silver Screenwriting Contest. That's not correct.

While I have in the past and think that this is a fantastic contest, that is not the contest I judged this year. Please re-direct that hatred elsewhere. There seems to be plenty of venom to go around.

------

Why was this this same blunt remark about her not reading for Silver this year not repeated in the retraction that replaced this? I don't know. Did she really read for Silver? I don't know. But that's where Stephen was coming from. This post was only up there for a short time.

When I was e-querying for an agent and/or manager in the fall of 2008, I had a weird experience with them. I wasn't sure if Gary was just trying to sell his services. But I think he was a WGAE signatory. I still don't know what to make of it, but for me, a few red flags went off and I after a conversation on the phone, I didn't continue.

Recently, the Contest of Contest Winners received an email from Gary, followed by an email from Howard (of the Contest) saying Gary-Paul was being removed as a precaution because he seemed to be soliciting money more than repping material and this link was provided:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43360&highlight=gary+paul+agency

No problem. That's just what I saw and heard. If anyone knows anything else...?

Dana-

I'm in Westchester. Do you live in CT or NY?

I second that.

Yeah - we're not too far from each other. Small world!

Congrats Stephen!

Thanks Janet and thanks for bumping up the thread.

Lisa - read from the top of "2010 Contests to Enter & Why."

I'm going to enter a few more next week, so there will be an update of new deadlines then. Also, I'll try to list what I've entered so far.

Do you also want a list of short script contests? I have a list from about a year ago, but it doesn't include any of the ones where the top prize is that they shoot your short script because I want to shoot it myself, so I didn't want to sign away the rights like that.

Short script comps:

So here are my disclaimers - this list is at least a year old. I can't vouch for these contests - do your own research (my info may be incorrect).

And - some of the best ones may not even be on this list (so do some more research) if the grand prize was that they shoot your script. I DIDN'T want them to do that because I want to direct my short script (hopefully sometime soon), so I didn't want to give away those rights. Others would consider that to be an incredible prize though.

These are in alphabetical order followed by the maximum page count that can be entered (again, double check this info):

Action on Film American Gem (50) - but I think they want 7% - CHECK! An Abbreviated (20) British (15) DC Shorts (15) Fade In FirstGlance (20) Gimme Credit (30) Great American (7) LA Comedy Shorts Latino (30) Manhattan (20) Movie Deal (40) Movie Script Contest (30) PAGE International (40) Poppy Jasper (30) Queens (30) Rack Focus (10) Screenwriting Expo (20) ScriptBiz (40) Short Script Awards (35) Slamdance (40) Tahoe Reno The Writers Place (40) Urban Mediamalers Vail (45) WILDsound (any) WorldFest Houston (60)

Annoying - forgot that "returns" don't work:

Action on Film

American Gem (50) - but I think they want 7% - CHECK!

An Abbreviated (20)

British (15)

DC Shorts (15)

Fade In

FirstGlance (20)

Gimme Credit (30)

Great American (7)

LA Comedy Shorts

Latino (30)

Manhattan (20)

Movie Deal (40)

Movie Script Contest (30)

PAGE International (40)

Poppy Jasper (30)

Queens (30)

Rack Focus (10)

Screenwriting Expo (20)

ScriptBiz (40)

Short Script Awards (35)

Slamdance (40)

Tahoe Reno

The Writers Place (40)

Urban Mediamalers

Vail (45)

WILDsound (any)

WorldFest Houston (60)

Two more (not sure why they weren't on my list because I placed in them):

Champion

Cinema City

And:

Creative World Awards

(This is so odd - all my "c"'s weren't in my favorites.)

Okay, here's the next batch of comps I'm going to enter:

MOVIE SCRIPT CONTEST: I took 8th place with my urban drama, but no requests. It's a difficult script to sell (very dark) and friends of mine placed in MSC and got requests, so I'm entering again. 7/20 deadline.

CHAMPION: Everyone knows Jim Mercurio from this board. He also runs a Lab, which you could win a seat in. Jim seems to be trying his best for the contest to help writers. 7/30 deadline.

AMERICAN ZOETROPE: Francis Ford Coppola's contest is one of the top ones and he chooses the winner. 8/2, 9/3 deadlines.

Does anyone know if the Atlanta Lab is happening this year? The deadline was 8/21 last year and there doesn't seem to be anything on their website or withoutabox.

I'll check again on Atlanta in mid-August. Otherwise, I'm not entering any until the end of September. I'll judge my results in the next few months and see what I want to do.

But my list of "maybes" for the rest of the "contest year" is: Atlanta, Screenplay Festival, Cinequest, Tracking B, WorldFest Houston, Cinestory, Hamptons Lab, Vail, Nantucket, Film Independent Lab. Again, these are just ones I'm considering entering from September through March. I'll decide in a few months.

Thanks for the info Marjory. A couple of friends told me things like that.

Congrats James!

Congrats again Mike!

Good luck with the shoot!

One out of my three in the top 25% made it - Out of Sync (comedy).

Congrats Jage and the rest of you!

I avoid repetition unless there's a reason to repeat so that the reader/viewer remembers it from earlier (this happens more with dialogue when another character repeats an earlier line).

I feel like I'm in the minority but I love Movie Magic. I started with it years ago and have since won Final Draft (which is great because my collaborator uses it), so I tried it out, but I still find Movie Magic to be more intuitive and easier to use. Does anyone else use it?

Well, there goes my Final Draft endorsement deal.

I knew I couldn't be the only one! I'd like for my collaborator to use Movie Magic too.

Is Fade In still in business?

I took 3rd in Shorts in the 13th Awards, but still haven't received my prize money or promised script analysis by a WGA writer. I also placed in the Quarters of the 14th and haven't been able to find out which script advanced. I've emailed for the 4th time now, and left 3 messages on their phone, which no one ever picks up.

Have the closed up or are they just vying for worst contest?

I actually just heard back from them. Prizes have not been dispersed and they will get me the script analysis. They say they have been in email contact with me, but the last email I have is Jan. 20th and I don't have a junk folder. At least we're in touch now.

Nope. Didn't find out which of my scripts placed either.

Perfect example!

The basic gist it that people don't always say what they're thinking or what they mean. When you're dialogue is exactly what they're thinking (on the nose) it feels fake, clunky, unrealistic.

I've never put Fade In or Fade Out in any of my scripts. I agree with you - it's implied. It's almost like "cut to." I know it's more sentimental. But I just start my scripts with the first scene heading and I end with "The End."

I'm really surprised a reader gave notes to add in beats. It is frowned upon. Like it was said above - and actor doesn't want to be told when to pause.

I wonder if the reader was asking less for a pause in dialogue and more in the scene, maybe it's reading a bit quick or choppy. But I don't know.

Here's what I do when I want a beat - I add action, so there's a natural pause in the reading of a line (and this will be an extreme example because of the many "beats" needed):

RED: I can see why he wants you so bad.

Red takes a sip of wine.

RED: You're beautiful.

He stands up.

RED: Rich.

Walks over to her.

RED: Beautiful.

I'm sorry - I thought the line there was just made up. I didn't mean to say that's how it should be done, or that you have to add in action, and like I said, that's an extreme case.

This is just something I do when I want the reader to pause even though a character hasn't stopped talking. I think it's a neat trick. And a last option. But much better than "(beat)" or the reader missing something (or the way I meant something).

I'm looking for one in my latest script and of course, I can't find one! So here's a lame example.

IRIN looks in the mirror, alone in his bedroom. Combs his perfect hair. Speaks to himself.

IRIN: You know what the best movie ever is? Casablanca.

(Another way to do it, and get a beat...)

IRIN looks in the mirror, alone in his bedroom. Combs his perfect hair. Speaks to himself.

IRIN: You know what the best movie ever is?

Stares at himself, dreamily.

IRIN: Casablanca.

----

From my experience as a reader, someone reading this will have a slight pause because the dialogue is now broken up, without having to use "(beat)" or "(pause)". And that extra line of description will be basically skipped in the reading - most readers basically read down the middle of the page, zipping through descriptions.

Just my trick. Use it or don't.

Congrats Andrew!

Congrats on advancing Mike!

I never knew about Lorelei's website before and I wish I knew about that when I was starting out. That's one of the best websites I've seen on screenwriting. Wish it was mine!

Congrats Patricia!

I started posting scripts about 3 years ago and I add my new ones as they place in contests. I've had 5 to 10 requests.

Congrats Kate!

No luck for me. I'm 0 for lifetime! I've never advanced in Scriptapalooza. I'm beginning to think my mom runs it. Lol!

No problem. I know for a fact that other moviebyters have also gotten requests on it. Good luck!

Definitely agree on sound. Don't believe the "fix it in post" bit - just get it right on set.

The number one thing - pre-production. Work your ass off in pre-production. Take care of everything and anything that can come up. You'll still get throw lots of curveballs, but you'll be able to handle them. Plus, your film will be better. You'll make less mistakes. And you'll look like you know what you're doing to the cast and crew. Just because you plan it all out, doesn't mean you don't improvise and go with the flow, it actually allows you to do that without forgetting important things. If you don't work hard in pre-production, you pay for it.

No problem. Any other questions you have or advice you need, don't hesitate to ask.

Pilar Alessandra's DVD (available thru CS Expo) really helped me.

This is cool. But I do get 15% of spin offs, sequels and merchandising. If I see any coffee mugs or action figures, you'll hear from my lawyer.

Yeah - what happened to Atlanta. I want to enter.

Definitely save that for when you sell something!

Congrats!

Congrats Susan!

Congrats! A "recommend" is awesome.

Congrats guys! I got cut this round.

They were heatly arguing about my script!

Thanks. Glad you're still in the running.

Oops - "heatedly" - no more drinking in the morning. I'll just stick to drugs.

Thanks and congrats Stephen!

Thanks!

But it's a drama! (Thanks Michael).