Message Board

Hi everyone,

I am new to this message board, and so far, I have found it to be, unlike anywhere else in cyberspace, civilized and helpful.

I have finished my second draft on a romantic comic fantasy screenplay, and have no agent. My screen writing teacher has suggested that in my genre especially, it might be productive to hold an industry-invited reading.

Do any of you have any experience and/or suggestions with this? I would be grateful for anything you might wish to express.

Gil C.

Nothing to add here, except that when I read "whorepresents.com" I thought it was (rather aptly) "Whore Presents dot com!"

I wish I had great connections, Miriam, as you say, if I did I wouldn't need the reading!

Yes, I'm in LA, and, being an actor myself, I have tons of friends who either could do the reading for me, or know others who would be right for the parts.

The Industry part is what has me stumped. I plan on asking my teacher exactly how to get Industry types interested in a staged reading...she herself is a produced screen writer, and it was her idea, so she should know.

Thanks for the offer Orlando, at this point, though, I was talking about having a staged reading, mostly to hear out loud how my words are flowing and how the jokes are going. I will let you know in the future, and maybe I will take you up on your offer of reading it.

I am so excited, today I just sent a copy to the Copyright Office, having registered it last week with the WGA.

thanks, hj, and tom, for some excellent tips! the thing about unnecessary narration is brilliant, i never thought of that!

and i had already planned to have a couple of rehearsals. i appreciate all your input!

i'll let you know how it goes, when it happens (won't be for a few months yet...)

LOL! Very funny. You are right, Michael, I'd stay away from any writing-related company that never heard of spell-check!

I agree with HJ!

Holy crap, Kris!

Good luck!

Gil C.

hey, speaking of writers script network, do they have a message board?

i was given to understand they do, but for the life of me i can't find it anywhere on their web site.

i think your friend is jealous all right, but not so much jealous of your talent, but perhaps of your drive, and of your self-belief, and of the very fact that you have a dream in the first place.

the large majority of people who walk this earth never even have a dream to pursue.

and of the small percentage of people who do, the large majority of that number don't have the guts or ambition to follow through.

my parents, well-meaning though they were, continually warned me to "have a day job" in my pursuit of acting/show biz.

i have to say i believe i wasted valuable years diddling in stupid day jobs that were totally unrelated to show biz while trying to make it. it was only when i got a job writing comedy that my acting began to take off.

vibrations? networking? universal confluence of like energies? who knows the answer. my point is, the great william goldman said it best: "nobody knows anything." and my corollary to that would be "so don't listen to them."

gil c.

good luck! and, since we're writers, i hope we all enjoy the irony of wishing you good luck for friday the 13th!

i have no personal knowledge of this, ie, no specific research creditials into old west language, but i would suspect that if it was in old west nevada, nobody would say boo about calling her a "propreitor." might be different in 1885 boston, but i think the difference would be too fine a point for cowboys to worry about.

hi folks,

here's a question bothering me. my screen writing teacher has told us that scenes should, on an average, not be longer than two pages.

maybe i'm misunderstanding her, but for the life of me i can't fathom this. watching "back to the future part 2" last night on tv, i timed several scenes, and they were for the most part 3 to 4 minutes long, or longer.

(i am using the one page = one minute formula).

any comments, feedback?

congrats!

keep us posted!

congrats, marcel! merry frickin' christmas!

lol! i second that!

she only wanted to know if her worries were legitimately within parameters of good manners.

i'd say they were. the recipient of the script should have at least let her know via email he/she got it.

but she could always send him/her a note asking.

merry christmas everyone!

merry christmas to everyone, and let's hope we all sell our screenplays in 2003!

happy holidays back atcha, mk! and to everyone else at movie bytes!

good luck to us all in 2003!

sorry, but i am sure it was rod serling, unless you have the mode happening.

ha ha ha, i tried to make a funny joke about html code in my last message, and the silly message board took it seriously and treated it as real html code.

what i was trying to say was this:

"i am sure it was rod serling, unless you had the {irony} {/irony} mode turned on."

good list....

personally, though, i thought insomnia was not so great, i thought robin williams was miscast. he's no kevin spacey!

robin was much better in one hour photo.

can't think of any other film off hand i'd add to the list.

happy new year everyone!

hey guys,

i have received an email from some group called "noci pictures" in lincolnwood illinois, wanted to see a copy of my script after i emailed them the first 5 pages.

anybody have any experience with them?

any input?

thanks in advance,

gil c.

welcome crystal, and have fun! this is a good group of people who seem to actually care, and there are no flamers, hooray.

kind of off topic, but paula mentioned an overlap scene she didn't like (guy in a car, we hear a doorbell, next scene is guy on the porch).

it reminded me of a great overlap sound fx that i loved, in oliver stone's jfk.

somebody is asking tommy lee jones about joe pesci's character, and tommy lee says "that name rings a bell" and we HEAR a door bell chime.

then two seconds later the scene cuts to a flashback where tommy lee opens the door to his house and meets the pesci character for the first time.

i thought it was brilliant.

any way, yes, i think the answer to your question is "voice over" insted of "off screen."

yes steve, i am already beating myself up for not checking them out before sending them the first five.

i have since googled them and found that they seem to be semi-legite, but found an article about that flick "mr. id" in which one of the actors said "they didn't pay any of the actors."

i am seriously doubting that i will send them my script (which is wga registered and us copyrighted anyway, so it's not too much of a problem...if they steal it, i can always sue).

hi folks,

no question, just an observation.

i had totally forgot that, like life itself, writing your screenplay ultimately comes down to your own decisions, and no body can tell you how to do it.

i have had 4 different people, all in the biz, friends and/or paid instructors of mine (a script reader, and three people involved in script writing schools), read my drafts.

i have gotten varied comments and suggestions.

very few of the suggestions and comments are consistant among the four people, eg, person one loves a and b, person two loves a, hates b, person three thinks a should merge with b, and person four hates both a and b.

people whose opinions i trust implicitly have diametrically opposed ideas about how to make my script better.

i am kind of in the doldrums now, because i am realizing that, like the rest of life, there is no magic formula, and i just have to make my own decisions and let my script live or die on my own merits

(i was really hoping for four similar opinions: gil, we love this and this and this, but you have to change that and that, and then make the horse a monkey! then you'll make a million dollars!)

just wanting to commiserate! anybody been here? done this? any buddhist kones that can ease my mind?

i've said it else where, but i'll say it here again.

when i first saw the name of that site, it was all in lower case, so i thought the name was

WhorePresents.com

=) !!

had lunch with a professional script reader friend of mine who said "most scripts fall apart in the third act, slow down and become boring."

also, my own bugaboo is bad spelling, bad grammar, typos typos typos.

bryan,

i laughed out loud at your advice from animal house.

here's a specific example of what i'm dealing with:

my teacher, who has had scripts produced, and i value her opinions highly, told me to take the first 3 lines of screen direction and expand it into the entire first page, because "a good first page can sell the script."

then my good friend, a writer and professional reader for a film company, told me to cut the first page entirely and start the script on page two.

where's that bottle?

seriously, thanks to everyone who listened and shared. i am feeling better today about things.

forward, into the breach!

paula,

my friend wasn't a producer, he is a professional script reader, who has written and directed a couple of short (5-10 min) films.

sorry if i gave the impression he was a producer.

i think i will try my teacher's suggestion...

i will let everyone know how things turn out, if they turn out at all.

hi guys,

i am putting a montage into my script.

does anybody know either (a) how to format such a thing or (b) where i could find an example of such a thing or (c) a recent script that had a montage in it that i could review?

thanks in advance,

gil c.

mary kay is right.

it's all in the eye of the beholder.

and sometimes, art can make money.

i'd submit that "minority report" was close to art.

at least, that's what art tells me.

and personally, i'd fight anyone who says the lord of the rings series are crap.

it's a far-reaching story plumbing the depths of human behavior and emotions based on a classic from english literature, and it's making a gazillion dollars.

so, it can be done.

now, go out there and do it!!

thanks ellen, and johnny, for the words of encouragement.

johnny, if you're interested, email me and i can refer you to the lady who designed and maintains my web page.

i am very happy with her work.

another rubicon i must cross in my script is the choice of a karaoke song my main character sings.

i originally had him singing "i will survive" by gloria gaynor.

however my teacher/consultant said that this particular song had been done many times before in recent films.

my alternate was "staying alive" by the bee gees.

any thoughts, specifically about the overuse of "i will survive"?

personally, i can only think of two recent films, and one, men in black two, only had the dog singing one verse while he waited in the car.

anyone with an opinion?

thanks, crystal! i appreciate the help!

thanks to everyone who gave input, i appreciate it.

well, i appreciate everyone who has given me input.

as i said, i had narrowed my song choice down to those two songs: i will survive and staying alive.

but my question was, how valid was my teacher's comment that "i will survive" was overdone?

i'm still tending towards that one.

anyway, i'm not fooling myself. i know that if i sell the script, the song will probably be changed to "whoops i did it again" or whatever britney spears hit is on the charts that summer.

if the karaoke scene even stays in the pic.

i have taken two different screen writing classes in the last year, and both suggested envisioning a trailer as a tool for getting a handle on the tone of your flick, and the highlights of the scenes of your script.

as to "about schmidt," i thought it was funny, but in the "life is funny" kind of way, including the fact that life is tragic too. you have to laugh or you'll cry.

as to the national reviewer that said schmidt got an epiphany that his life was well-lived, i wish i had some of what that guy was smoking, because i thought the exact opposite.

schmidt broke down and cried at the end precisely because he realized what a waste his life was (imho).

you can see what i look like on my website www.gilchristner.com.

classic: duck soup, the marx bros.

recent: jurassic park.

all time most loved flick so much that i'll watch it any time it's on tv, or go to the movies to see: dr. zhivago.

future: the one i'm working on now.

thanks paula, although i would not call myself a "celebrity" by any means.

but i am lucky, i will be on "the west wing" on feb. 5, and a new disney show called "that's so raven" also sometime in february, and i am taping an episode of the "the bernie mac show" this week.

also, just want to share, i have finished my third and final draft of my script and am about to plunge out into the world of getting (a) an agent and (b) my script sold.

i have some time coming to me on writers script network, so that's the first place i'll be putting it.

wish me luck!

thanks for adding your two cents, ellen, but this isn't screen writing, this is a forum about screen writing.

but did you have an answer to my question, or just a comment about how i write messages on a free message board?

it's a good forum, my favorite of the many on line.

i concur with mk, we all have our off days, i know i've had off years, so as long as we all try to be decent to each other, and remember we are all chasing the same muse, we'll do just fine.

ok, i may have not made it clear about my reasons for a song choice here:

the main character goes into a karaoke bar, and sings a karaoke song, and it becomes a big karaoke dance number.

for reasons of character and theme, the song should be about being alive, or living, or something.

for humor and pacing reasons, doing a disco number just really seems natural.

i had narrowed it down to the two choices i mentioned; i picked "i will survive," but my consultant/teacher said it was "too done."

ps, not to beat a dead horse, but i am not channeling/imitating ee cummings. that's like saying anybody who uses capital letters properly is channeling gutenberg.

as freddie said, it's just an on-line style. i find it rather post-modern gibsony cyberspeak.

i am certainly sorry if i came off as anything other than humbly wanting advice and opinions about my song choice, and i really sincerely appreciate all of you who wrote yours.

thanks.

besides, i don't embarrass easily. and how do you know ee cummings didn't travel with hg wells to this time period, read my stuff, and went back to the 20th century and start imitating me??

i'm a character actor, and have appeared on tv and in films numerous times.

i also made a (fairly decent) living writing and producing comedy for syndicated radio in the 90's, so i have had the pleasures of (a) making a living as a writer and (b) knowing the american public actually heard my words.

but neither the radio comedy gig, nor any time i see myself on tv or in the movies compares to the satisfaction and exictement i feel when i physically hold my completed screenplay in my hands and say "i did this. this is mine."

i surely hope i get it produced, because i think that will be the only feeling that could be better.

plus of course i wrote a part in it for myself.

here's my two cents...

if you want to talk about contests, or a specific contest, start a thread.

if you want to talk about specific problems/aspects of screen writing, start a thread.

if you don't want to read a topic, don't click it open.

if you're reading a thread, and someone's post is wandering, use the mouse to scroll down.

ellum, you are obviously intelligent. i must say i was a bit put off by your comment to me on the other thread about my capitalization (or lack thereof), only because your comment actually had nothing to do with the topic (which i started), which kind of is the very thing you complain about in your first post in this thread.

but i think we are all intelligent, kind and generous folks, all trying to achieve similar goals, and we really need to share our frustrations as well as our successes.

contrary to your initial post feeling, i have gotten some great feedback/advice about specific screenplay questions.

and the other threads about football (just kidding, mk!) and "what do we look like in real life" and stuff like that: well, if i feel like reading it and participating, i do; if i don't, i don't; but i sure don't hold anybody responsible for not adhering to some standard of content that wasn't really promised.

it's a tough life; it's a tough business; luckily there are like minds that can commiserate when things get hinky.

please come back ellum, just don't have expectations that are too high for a free message board, and then you will enjoy yourself.

it's a good group, and my fav board.

no problem, ellum, i think i was in a bad mood the night i read your comment about my non-cap style. so forgive me if i was peevish.

i think this is a great forum full of intelligent and hard-working people, and i only wish the best for everybody who supports each other here.

i hope you stick around ellum.

and mary kay, i also am happy that the bucs kicked the raiders asses. i lived in oakland about the time al davis moved the team to los angeles, so asking me to root for the raiders is like asking someone in brooklyn to root for the dodgers.

ok, kids, back to topic:

my own personal challenge in screenwriting is not over-writing.

i come from an improv back ground, where you just keep talking until something brilliant comes out.

my wife, after reading my first draft of my current screenplay, said, "gil, you write like an improv show."

so, luckily for me, editing has never been a problem for me. the challenge of course is to separate the wheat from the chaff, and not accidentally cut something that's important (although i rarely do).

that's my biggest challenge.

oh, and, selling the damn thing (just kidding!)

hey!!!

i thought this was the moviebytes sucks forum!!!

just kidding.

anybody ever hear of these guys? they are located on beverly drive in bev. hills.

they have a post on "fadetoscript" group on yahoo groups, looking for scripts.

couldn't find anything on google.

all help and input greatly appreciated, as usual.

"I think it's one of the best services out there, but not the only one to use."

wow, paul, i'd like the names of some other comperable (ie, legitimate, not just give us $200 and we'll give you coverage) services.

i am only aware of wsn, and i'd be happy to check into some others.

thanks in advance

"I was surprised to note the presence of a former contributor, and I took the time to read his comments and suggestions...his comments--some of which seemed to me painfully honest--were scoffed at. I was saddened to witness that...

To the others who displayed gross disrespect, you have my pity. To those of you who congratulated them, and laughed, you should feel shame. You are equally guilty."

gosh, i wish you had provided examples. i don't know who or what you're talking about.

i think most of us are very respectful. sometimes we tend to rub each other the wrong way, but we are all quick to back off and apologize when we think we've gone off the deep end...i have, and i have had apologies offered to me. none worse the wear.

maybe you weren't even talking to me, g. hurd, so i guess i don't even need to stick my nose into it. but i can't ever remember people scoffing at someone. disagreeing, maybe, but no derision. this is one of the nicer boards i have had the privelege of participating in.

and if you are the g. hurd i think you are, i would certainly listen to your advice. but again, i honestly can't think of what you are talking about.

maybe the biggest challenge in screen writing is message boards....

thanks paul.

maybe the reason i haven't found anything on google is because i've been misspelling it! lol!

huzzah!

a friend of mine took my synopsis/pitch/log line into a production company, whose development exec is a good friend of his.

the exec called me today and wants to read my script!

i am on cloud nine!

(it also helps that i just found out that my scene i filmed for "the west wing" which was cut out of the original episode it was written for, will be shown in a future episode. this week, show biz works!)

gil c.

Elaborate on this West Wing item. You are in an episode or one of the writers? I am a big West Wing fan.

i am in one episode...it will air veb. 26, according to warner bros. i am a character actor as well as writer. in fact, i am writing mostly to give myself parts to play, ha ha!

thanks to you all for your good wishes! i'll keep you updated!

UPDATE:

i gave my script to gross-weston productions, which, when googled, turns out to be a big deal company that has done a number of high profile mow's, usually of the serious sort, starring sissy spacek, jobeth williams, patty duke, etc etc. they did "the billionaire boys club" and the movie about the fire in the oakland hills, so i was pretty impressed that they wanted to read my script.

needless to say, my story is not really up their alley...it's a pretty fantastical comedy. and the lady that read it said that she didn't currently have a market for it, but she'd hold on to it in case something came along in the future.

but the nice thing is she said (on a message i have kept on my message service) that i am "obviously a very talented writer" and the script was "a great read."

so, although technically i didn't win, i feel like i won. especially as this is the first professional input (outside of my friends and teachers, who, coincidentally, are in the biz).

thanks for all of your good wishes!

gil c.

can anyone expand on why tfi is such a good contest?

maybe i didn't know what to look for, but when i perused their website, it didn't seem like a contest i needed to enter.

i'd be happy to be proven wrong.

i'd say scam AND dumb.

thanks for the support, miriam.

i actually did tell her that i was workikng on something more up their alley (i've got an idea for one, at least) and i asked her, when i had some pages could i pitch to her, and she said yes.

so i believe i have established a contact, and when i get something more along the lines of what they do, she'll be happy to listen.

i am stoked!

conversely, i got an email rejection from an agent today. at least he was kind enough to hit the 'reply' button and let me know he wasn't interested (his excuse: too much stuff on his plate already)

again, thanks to everyone for their support and good wishes.

"I need mostly unsuccessful screenwriters"

don't you mean "pre-successful"??

as i am in a big hurry to become a rich and famous screen writer, i looked at the "contests with upcoming deadlines" page, and saw that a couple had deadlines this weeks. so i quickly put together some packages and mailed them out yesterday.

then after i got home, i was tooling around this site, and found the report cards section. after reading the report cards, i realized that one i entered was probably not worth my time and effort (not to mention the money) and the other one may or may not be either.

the moral? life sucks. no, not really. the moral is read the report cards first.

however, i gotta say, it would make sense to me if there was a link to the report cards on each individual page describing the contests.

i tried keyword search to find "report cards" and it came up blank.

i had read about report cards on other message topics, but had not found them.

so, no big whoop, but if there's anybody out there just itchin' to join a contest, i'd recommend looking at the report cards, which can be found at the bottom of the home page (click on "home" in the link bar at top of this page, on the left side).

here's my opinion, and it's a two-parter:

one) we've got better things to worry about (economy, osama, korea) than saddam.

two) this web site is not the place to discuss it. there's plenty of political message boards out there (pro and con).

email me if you'd like the urls of some pro and con blogs.

well, i feel really stupid now. sorry for complaining so much.

i guess i should learn to read! duh!

yeah, i'm already registered with wsn. guess i'd better go back and read everything there, since i'm doing so poorly at following directions!!

to madeleine: hello, and welcome! this is a great group of people.

to paula: hey, sorry, i am only giving my opinion, and my opinion is, there are more appropriate on-line forums for the discussion of war/anti-war than this writers' message board.

sure, i saw the title, but i thought (at first) maybe it had to do with a script about the war, or a question about a war script.

the reason i waited so long to put my two cents in, is, unlike your response that the thread will disappear after a while, this thread always seems to be at the top or near top of the board when i sign on (yes, i know, my adding this message will indeed put it right up top again, it's the risk i take for speaking my mind).

seriously, what if i started a thread "abortion, yea or nay?" i'd bet i'd get a lot of opinions, BUT NONE ABOUT SCREENWRITING.

i repeat, i am 10000% against the war, and marched in the rally this weekend. but i am 10000000000% against non-screenwriting threads on this message board.

trottier's "the screen writer's bible" says NEVER use (CON'T) in a character's dialogue.

e.g.

BOB Let's eat!

Bob grabs a sandwich and stuffs it into his mouth.

BOB (CON'T) This food sucks!

according to trottier, i should not have put (CON'T) after the second BOB.

after reading "the screen writer's bible" i had to go back through my script and take out about a billion (CON'T)'s.

i was considering this contest, until i read the report cards, which seemed to indicate, although the contest is run very well, there is a large lack of professional contacts for the winners on the part of scriptapalooza. does anybody have a different story about this contest?

man oh, man, just went back to read the the report card comments about fade in after reading rick's comment...

if i was even thinking about sending them anything, i certainly am not going to do it now. read johnny cho's comments and david martin's comments.

i have no dog in this fight, but i'd sure stay away from fade in if i was an aspiring screenwriter.

oh wait! i am!

i agree with miriam, you don't have to write every scene in order.

i took a class (only one) from writers bootcamp and the best thing i got from it was the idea of writing your first draft...if you get stuck at a scene, just write INSERT BEDROOM SCENE HERE (or chase scene, or confrontation scene, or whatever scene it is).

for the first draft, write the stuff that comes out easy. if that means writing the end scene first, do it. write the stuff that writes itself.

then go back and write the inbetween stuff.

if that doesn't work, put the story aside and write something else entirely. how was your day. a review of last night's law and order. a letter to your mom decribing how hard it is to write.

JUST WRITE.

it'll come.

really, david! how great for you!

that took balls, and boy, it paid off! the guy said he'd take a look, and that's all you can ask!

i am trying to work up the nerve to cold call people with my pitch. i know i have a good script; i got it (through a friend) into a production company who did movies of the week, and the development exec said it was a great read and i am a very talented writer (but they didn't currently have a market for it; they specialize in intimate women's dramas and mine is a broad comedy).

so my point is, as soon as i grow some balls the size of yours, i'll be doing great!

you have my utmost admiration! good luck and break a leg (or wrist, or whatever you say to writers).

rest in peace, miss veena.

it sounds like she lived a rich and full life. we were lucky to (virtually) know her for these last few weeks.

god rest your soul, miss veena.

personally, i did both. but the wga is waaaaaay faster than the copyright office.

i mailed my script w/ payment and forms (to the copyright office) the first week in december, along with a return receipt requested, to make sure they received it.

as of last week, i hadn't gotten the receipt back, nor had the check been cashed. so i went back to the post office, they did research, and informed me it had been received and signed for. go figure.

about two days later, i finally got the return receipt.

they still haven't cashed the check. they are way behind.

all good questions, richard. i'd ask the same thing.

in my humble opinion (not specifically about script pimp, but in general):

there is no service to help you cut through the crap. the crap is there for two reasons:

because the world is full of crap (i'm being somewhat facetious here, but read on): there's more crap being written and pitched than good stuff. so this crap clogs up the pipelines. therefore the buyers of product innoculate or insulate themselves with firewalls to keep the crap out. these firewalls are the crap you want to avoid. but i am saying they are unavoidable. but not insurmountable.

the other reason is that if it was easy everyone would be doing it. like every other discipline, creative or otherwise, the journey should be the goal. figuring out how to get your good writing into the right hands is as much a creative endeavor as sitting in front of a blank screen and writing "fade in."

pardon my waxing philosophically, but i am realizing that there are no shortcuts in getting your screenplay read and produced. like everything else it takes effort, persistance, creativity, a solid sense of one's self, some time off now and then, and a belief in what you are doing.

there are no short cuts. i wish, there are none.

"I saw the heading and thought it was meant to be "whore presents," and expected info on a porn site (don't know why). Boy, was I embarrassed."

john,

i read the title the same way when i first heard about it on this board.

but i thought it was still about show biz, just incredibly truthful!

personally, i think the features you are talking about (suggesting a direction, or resolution, or line) is detrimental in two ways:

on the personal level, it keeps you from stretch your own creative and imagninative muscles, and like all muscles, if you don't use them, you lose them.

on a grander level, it only would serve (in my opinion) to churn out more machine-like non-human-imagination material. and don't we already have enough assemably line stuff as it is?

i think "dude, where's my car" was entirely written by a software program.

bryan,

are you talking about a brian depalma flick starring john lithgow, who played the tortured hero, his brother and his dad which the audience thought were in his imagination due to camera tricks, until the end when it turns out the dad was real? i forget the name of this movie. it was pretty cheap, i thought, for de palma to use screen conventions to trick the audience. oh well, i guess he's laughing all the way to the bank.

cold calls are a big buggaboo for lots of people, myself included. i am not good at them; except i am, but they make me nervous.

but you know what? people prefer talking to you, rather than reading a letter. really.

it's strange, because i was on the other end of this process in the 90's. i was producer and head writer for some syndicated radio comedy shows, and i got lots of people sending me material, and a smaller number of people calling me.

i can tell you it was harder for me to dismiss a telephone call. making a connection to a human being softened me, and even if i didn't need to hire someone at that time, i found myself encouraging the person who had the guts to call me.

if i just got stuff in the mail, i could easily toss it without a response.

and, on the other side of the coin, though i get nervous making cold calls to people i don't know, i have read in a book by k callan called "i've finished the script, now what do i do?" a quote by some high mucky muck in the biz.

i'm paraphrasing here, but they basically said, you have to be a salesman as well as a creative in this biz, and if making phone calls scares you, get out of the business.

so i am forcing myself to make one cold call a day. so far everyone is very polite. i haven't gotten a yes yet, but i just had a long discussion with harry colomby of colomby/keaton (michael keaton's prodco).

he was really nice, and very encouraging, and said they don't take scripts unless submitted by a franchised agent (which i don't have) so he gave me a big pep talk about going out and getting an agent.

my point, long and rambling as it is, is just this: it's just a bunch of people on the other end of the phone. trust me, they want to get a call from the next blockbuster.

the worse that can happen is they say "no." nobody will kill you, or revoke your citizenship, or spread nasty rumors about you.

and, as someone said on one of these other threads: it only takes one "yes."

so, just remember, it's not unusual to be bad at cold calls. many many people are shy. i know i am. but shyness is not a problem, it's a challenge.

i find that after i have encouraged myself to actually do something that frightens me, like cold calls, i feel better about myself, and that feeling is reward in itself.

good luck. i know how nerve-wracking it can be. but i also know it can be worked through, a step at a time.

oh, one more thing. lest you think i'm such a take-charge kind of guy, after the first week of making a cold call a day, i took a week off because it was so emotional for me to. but i'm back at it as of today!

good luck to everyone!

gil c.

my wife and i live in west los angeles, near ucla. definately a great place. actually feels like a neighborhood. stores and restaurants within walking distance. And, it's close to the ocean, so it's cool in the summer.

Warning...the nicer the neighborhood, the higher the rents!

The valley has some nice places, and not so pricey.

having finished one script after taking a great "second draft class," i decided to pull out an old first draft from a few years ago and apply the techniques i learned in class...

i am really surprised at how well it's turning out. i wasn't even going to bother showing it around, but now, i think it's good enough to try to sell.

and, besides that, and i am very proud of this, though it has nothing to do with writing....

i have lost 15 pounds, on purpose! got tired of the christmas fat, and i couldn't reach my shoelace to tie it.

well, it doesn't pay the rent, but i feel a lot better.

i wouldn't discount silverlake, but it is a bit funky, in every sense of the term. but the hills are nice (having lived in san francisco, i appreciate a good street on an incline).

yeah, burbank is a good compromise, and i'd even suggest studio city, encino, sherman oaks, etc.

and yes, it's nothing like manhattan; absolutely no public transportation (not literally...there are buses, but few and far between, the subway is limited, only 2 lines, it's a joke).

bring a car. get used to driving many miles. buy a lot of books on tape.

seriously, you will enjoy it. good luck! see you out here real soon!

how did i lose weight?

no secret, i did it the old fashioned way, diet and exercise.

but i always diet the way i live: moderation is all things, including moderation.

i cut out four things from my diet: sweets (sugar), carbs (nuts), starches, (breads, pasta, rice beans), and second helpings (probably the most important thing to cut out).

luckily for me i love salads, so i would eat at the soup plantation almost every day for lunch. non-fat dressings. also switched to non-fat milk.

but like i said, every so often i'd splurge and have a burger and fries. you can't make yourself nuts or you start to feel deprived.

and, i walked every day for 30-45 minutes, around the neighborhood, and i also started a regimine of touch-your-toes and sit ups.

i'm so happy, now my pants that i haven't worn for two years all fit again, it's like getting a new wardrobe!

also i have been working hard on a second draft of an old script during these past two months, using techniques i learned in a good class.

a profitable, if you don't count actual money, couple of months.

here's what i think...

i used to say the same thing about scene length..."what does it matter how long a scene is, as long as it's great???"

meanwhile my teacher was telling me that my 8 and 9 page scenes were way too long. and for a remedy she suggested i cut everything from page 93 to 103 in my recent script.

i thought, hey, i can't do that! there's at least two important plot points there in those pages. but in emails with her, my teacher didn't seem to mind that those plot points would be lost.

so instead i went back and rewrote the second and third act, and gave myself a challenge, just to see if i could do it...no scene over two pages.

i almost made it. i had a couple of scenes of three pages, but i thought that was close enough for my goal. but at least i kept in all those plot points.

the result? a much tighter, more interesting script.

and the bonus? now, my teacher could see the importance of those plot points, and understood why i didn't want to lose them or gloss them over.

so what did i learn from this? in a long scene, a lot happens. maybe too much. maybe a big scene with a lot of stuff is confusing, and boring.

but a lot of little scenes, with one or two things happening in each scene, is more precise.

a laser, instead of a shot gun.

yes, most writers chafe at "rules." on another message board there is a running thread of "industry light bulb jokes," and the one for writers is:

how many writers does it take to change a light bulb?

why does it have to change?

sure, quentin tarrantino threw out the rules of linear plot progression in pulp fiction. louie malle really violated most of those rules mentioned above in "dinner with andre." robert altman has been breaking rules for years.

but, if you ain't tarrantino or malle or altman, and my guess is, you ain't, it really does you well to abide by the rules that the industry likes to see, at least until you've made your name for yourself.

ok, i'll shut up now.

"Please, listen to yourself. Why is your guess is that "I ain't"?"

odds. just the odds. i think if i laid money on it, i'd win. and nothing to do with you personally. just the odds. how many tarantino's are there, amongst all the screenwriters? even using "tarantino" as a metaphor, and not a specific person. the odds are, a beginning screenwriter is not a genius.

i think i'd win the bet, even if i bet the i, and not you, am not the next tarantino.

"Soon I realized that I wanted to be Salvador Dali and no one else!"

please don't take this personal, but i bet none of us is the next dali, either.

go ahead and break the rules. do what you will. we all must follow our own path.

good luck to you.

i agree with paul and warren, it was great of steven to share the advice he got with us.

i would also suggest that folks don't take advice personally or combatively. whenever someone gives you advice you don't like, just say thanks for sharing.

i also agree with paul that self-indulgence and imagination are two different things.

a formula for format is not the same as a formula for content. but manners always get you farther than rudeness.

thanks again, steven!

ellum,

seriously, get a hold of yourself and take a look in the mirror. nobody was saying anything bad about you, and yet you come out guns a'blazing.

bryan was talking in the general "you," as in, "one needs to find somewhere else to spew one's poison," rather than "ellum need to find somewhere else to spew ellum's poison."

none of us on this board thought bryan was talking to or about you specifically, so i don't think you need to think that either.

i remember my first interaction on this board with you was not pleasant, but i just wrote it off to miscommunication (you decided my lack of capitals was somehow indicative of how i write my screenplays, and how i was unsucessfully trying to emulate ee cummings, neither of which is true).

mary kay, bryan, steve calderwood, myself, and everyone else can't all be wrong. try to take a deep breath. we are not out to get you. we're all trying to support each other here. life, and this business, is too tough for us to be snipping at each other.

i have noticed you write very defensively in your postings, and are quick to take offense. with all due respect i would suggest you may want to examine your feelings next time before you lay them down on this board.

nobody is trying to cut you down. but we do like civility.

please don't bother responding to this. i won't read it. but i hope you will consider what we all have been saying to you.

i hate to be the bearer of salt for your wounds, but my script posting on wsn has really gotten a lot of hits in the last couple of weeks, plus i just delivered a hard copy to a producer who saw it on the wsn and emailed me.

but....

i'm also an actor, and jeez, it's been the slowest i've ever seen it in 20 years these last two months.

i think everyone's nervous about the future (ie, are we going to have one or not?)

i dont' have much to add to what randy said.

backstage west is da bomb for non-union projects.

also, it doesn't hurt to buy hollywood reporter on tuesdays and variety on fridays. those are the days the productions in town are listed, including production company, producer, studio, director, cast, sometimes casting director, and that's the important one. i have gotten auditions by sending pic and resume to these listings. not a lot, but i have gotten some.

also, samuel french bookstore is an invaluable resource place. they have a store in hollywood on sunset and one in the valley on ventura. the hollywood store is by far larger and more complete.

aside from every book ever written about show biz and every play ever produced (and i'm not exaggerating much here) they have a great periodical called "the agents" which comes out every two months with updates on all the agencies in town, their addresses & phone #'s, who's at which agency, and who's looking for new clients, and what kind (comedian, juvenile, children, experience only, etc).

also, it wouldn't hurt to join up with some casting director workshops. i know this is controversial now, but i can't imagine why.

you pay a fee to do a cold reading in front of a casting director. there is never any promise of work, so i dont' see the problem here, but there's a bunch of people who see it as a scam.

well, like everything, if you spend tons of money on it unwisely, you're an idiot. if you're not a handsome guy, don't bother to buy all the soap opera casting director sessions. if you're great at comedy, don't bother with hour long casting directors.

and for heaven's sake don't sign up for the 4 week intensives. a casting director can see your work in one session, and anybody that charges you for more sessions is bsing you.

the best way to learn about how to go to an audition is to get an audition and go to it, not paying someone for the experience.

lastly, i would say, get into a theatre group, or a class, not only to keep your skills sharp, but also to network. that's the key. schmooze your ass off.

good luck, alex! see you in the movies!

i have no experience with script pimp, other than entering their contest, and they seemed to be nice guys about that.

i have not scored an option with wsn yet, but i have had one request for my script to be read in the two months i've logged my synopsis on their site, which is sure one time more than i would have had by just sitting at home and whining.

plus, i like the weekly email, from which i have made a contact with a production company, who was not interested in my first synopsis (the one mentioned above) but was willing to listen to anything else i had. i have recently sent them another synopsis and am waiting to hear back.

again, that's one more relationship/contact than i would have had by just sitting at home and whining.

i think it's good deal for the $$$

who knows? they got my entry a month ago, and in my opinion, that's all they really needed. ha ha.

to be frank about this contest, i was not going to enter it because of some of the report cards i read here on movie bytes.

but then i mentioned that in one of these threads, and one of the guys who runs scriptapalooza emailed me personally and said he hoped i'd change my mind and they were attempting to make it a highly professional experience, blah blah blah.

i was so impressed the guy mailed me pesonally i went ahead and entered.

i admire you for having the stamina to go to the post office on april 15!!!

i highly recommend david trottier's screenwriter's bible.

the answer to your question is on page 130

EXT. CASTLE ON A LAKE - DAY

A beautiful story book castle.

The words "Once upon a time there lived a princess" FILTER INTO VIEW

or just write SUPER. subtitles and superimpositions are captialized because they are special effects.

hey, i'm curious if anybody has ever participated in "let's do lunch."

basically it's a pay-for-pitch session, but at least you get lunch.

anybody? feedback?

now you tell me. where were you two months ago when i entered?

you say there are several complaints about them. where can i find these complaints?

i have already read the 3 reportcards on moviebytes; any others?

yeah, i'm thinking of doing it just for the experience. plus, youj get lunch.

i've just heard that the people who are running "let's do lunch" now are not as "nice" as the people who used to do it, and i was trolling for feedback.

final draft.

i have no experience with movie magic.

final draft works for me. no complaints.

i have to agree with rich and john.

i worked with microsoft word for years, creating my own macros and shortcut keys.

eventually, though, i purchased final draft thru the writers script network, so i could get 6 months free listing on that site for my script.

and i love all the features in final draft, like, character reports, scene reports, and i even use the names data base.

to each their own.

thanks, rod.

my wife has actually attended conferences at the same place that let's do lunch does lunch, and confirms that the lunch sucks.

big congrats, mary!

wishing you the best of luck...

hey kids,

i have listed (one of) my scripts on the "players market place," the snail mail pamphlet that writers script network sends out to various agents/producers every two months.

i actually got a hit off of it today, someone requesting to see my script based on the log line in the pm.

here's my question...has anyone else listed their script in the pm, and if so, for how long.

as it costs another payment every two months, i am wondering if it makes any sense to keep listing.

it would seem that if a guy didn't like your log line in april he's not going to like it in june.

any thoughts?

hey, i have a problem, and maybe this is not even the venue to discuss it, but here goes.

i am currently in a script pages reading workshop. i'm new to this particular group of people, though i have participated in another similar workshop hosted by the same woman, whose professional opinion i admire.

i am bringing in first pages of my "vomit" draft (ie, very first crap thrown out on the page) of a new script i'm working on. very rough, but, in my opinion, not hopeless.

my problem: it seems to me that the group is especially hard on my pages, considering the level of their pages. in other words, they all have plenty of superlative praise for each others work, which looks to me to be competent at best (these guys ain't charlie kaufman and william goldman), and then they have literally no positive things to say about my pages.

i leave each session quite frustrated and bummed out, and i had to in fact show the same pages of mine to another screenwriter i know (not produced, but optioned, and he was a nicholl finalist). he did indeed concur with the flaws the group pointed out but had plenty of good things to say.

anybody have any experience in polite group dynamics? what can i do to level the playing field here?

am i just whining? or is there some way i can approach the group and try to get more constructive criticism out of them? (and maybe a "nice joke" once in a while)? or am i looking for something from them i need to be supplying myself (ie, respect)?

i know eleanor roosevelt said, nobody can make you feel bad without your permission. but she wasn't a comedian.

thanks, richard!

interesting advice.

i was thinking about leaving, but wondered if that would be too immature a solution to my ability (or inability) to relate to others.

i wouldn't say they were worse writers than i am, but they sure as hell aren't so much better, either.

i appreciate your input.

i can't thank you all enough for your input and support.

i've also always come from the idea that constructive criticism is different, and a lot harder, than criticism.

as i said, part of my confusion comes from the fact i attended a different but similiar workshop run by the same woman, where, although the work was not ON THE AVERAGE as high, the humanity and politeness (and overall fun) was waaaaay above it.

i will attempt to steel my self in my mind with all your advice, and not let myself get put on the defensive. and i believe i will ask everyone what they thought was good about my pages.

thanks again!

"And never submit vomit drafts to a writers group. It's disrespectful of their time. "

i gotta disagree. it's not like these guys are busy curing cancer or something. they're (supposedly) screenwriters who are familiar (supposedly) with the screenwriting process, including the first first draft.

and, as i said earlier, my other screenwriting friend was able to find good things in the pages, and direct me to some actual concrete ideas for improving it. and he was happy to do it. and, it wasn't particularly disrespectful of his time.

but thanks for your input. and again, to all of you who wrote, thank you.

thomas, ellum, paul and david, thank you for your input and support. and mary kay, thanks for the insight into group dynamics (wow! the topic of this thread! we've come full circle!)

i am sure i am being too defensive for what the situation calls for. in fact on my notepad i have had to write the initials "dbd" and "dgm" and "aq" for "don't be defensive," and "don't get mad" and "ask questions."

my "problem," though i don't consider it that at this stage in my process (this is my third script i've written myself, and fourth including a collaboration) is that in the beginning i overwrite. but for me, that's ok. then i go back and separate the wheat from the chaff.

where i am disconcerted in this group is that i have mentioned that this is how i work every single session, so it's really nothing new for people to look at my pages and say "you overwrite."

last night, after everyone looked at my pages and said "you overwrite," i said, "can i ask you, is there anything on the pages you did like?"

and there was an outpouring of very positive specifics. the culmination of which is, i apparently got everything i was going for in the pages, i just wrote a whole lot of extra words to get there.

but that's ok for me in this stage of my process. that's how i work.

i feel, wrongly or rightly, that to tell me i over write without specifically telling me what could be cut is worthless. and to tell me i overwrite without telling me what does work on the page is this side of rude (but there again maybe i want too much from these people that i'm not giving myself).

the problem (challege) has got to be with me, because i'm not going to be able to change 5 other people's heads.

i have a meeting with the facilitator next week, (for another topic) at which i will bring up my feelings.

once again, i thank you all for your indulgence on this topic. i am so grateful to have moviebytes to check in with, and you have been very supportive.

thanks.

i'm guessing from first word on the blank screen to a form i'm comfortable in sending out to professional people is a little less than a year.

conversely, i just dug up an old first draft that i whipped out of my head in a few weeks time several (and i mean several) years ago.

then i went over it with second draft mode, utilizing techniques and life experience i gained in those interval years.

so the answer to the question pertaining to that script is, about a decade.

i'm starting another one, been working on the first draft intermittently for about a month. i'm guessing i'll have something worthwhile in about a year's time.

what's up with writemovies.com contest?

i entered in february, and at that time the deadline was sometime in april, with a semi-finals announcment in may, final announcement in june, and winner announcment in july.

i checked the website this week, and suddenly the deadline for entry is the middle of june, and winners won't be announced until november.

anyone else enter? have i been scammed? (they have not replied to my email asking what's going on).

thanks, frederick!

yes, we seem to have leveled off a bit.

and, in recent weeks, you all have been incredibly supportive of me in a time when i began to doubt my own process and talent. thanks again for being here to everyone.

yeah, i don't think i'm clicking with these people, i don't know why.

i had to go back and re-read my other two screenplays just to remind myself that i'm a good writer! lol!

tonight's the last night for this series, and i highly doubt that i will sign up for this group again.

get "how to write a screenplay in 21 days" by somebody named king.

also, just for a great style sheet on format, get the screenwriters bible by dave trottier.

i agree with paul. the $40 is definately worth it for 6 months of exosure, compared to entering any contest.

no, i haven't sold anything yet. but my first script has been on the site for a little more than 2 months, and i have sent it 6 prodco's who have requested it in that time.

and i just got my first request for my second script which i listed on wsn.

i figure that's 7 prodco's who have my scripts that wouldn't have had my scripts if i just sat at home and waited for the phone to ring.

the writemovies.com screenplay contest has announced their semi finalists, and my script made the cut!

announcement here: http://www.writemovies.com/results_5_15_03.htm

i was previously mistaken about the contest disappearing, please ignore my ramblings earlier.

hello, if anybody is interested, i was able to resolve my problem with my writing group...or, actually, it kind of resolved itself.

first off, my wife told me she was going to refuse to let me go to the next series of meetings, because it was driving me (and thusly her) crazy.

and, i had scheduled a script consult (for another script) with the woman who facilitated/moderated the group, and planned to talk with her at length about my problems.

imagine my surprise when today, at the end of the consult, she said, "gil, we have to talk." and imagine her surprise when i replied, "yes, we have to talk."

bottom line is we both agreed that the chemistry in the group was not right for me.

she admitted the people in the group had "their own issues." she also sensed throughout the workshop that i was not having a good time.

i expressed my sense that the others were not as supportive of my pages as i thought they were of each others. she seemed to think she tried to be supportive of my work.

and, upon reflection, i must admit there may have been a large roshomon effect happening...i swear she never gave me a compliment in the 6 weeks, and she swears she gave me several.

she also told me that there had been personality problems in the past with others.

bottom line is, she and my wife agreed that pages workshops really don't work for my process...and, as you all have pointed out, since i have other writer friends whose opinions i value and trust, i really don't need such a thing, at least not at this time.

but anyway, the reason i'm rambling on about this whole topic is, at the end of our discussion, this woman who consulted on my script gave me a substantial discount for the consultation, to make up for my lousy time at the workshop. she is a class act.

and, as i have consulted with her before on another script, and find her service to be very valuable, i was incredibly overwhelmed by her generous consulation gesture.

and if anybody needs a referral for a great script consultation, please email me and i will give you her name and number.

she is very reasonable and she makes a point of addressing your script's intent and how to reach it, as opposed to what she would have written (no "make it a japanese submarine instead" sort of stuff).

again, thanks to all of you for your support throughout this soap opera-high schoolish ordeal. (i actually printed out several of your comments and took them with me for support and ammunition today!!)

the gang here on the moviebytes message board saved my sanity, at least this week. thanks again.

i'm finding more and more problems with third acts in the movies these days. doesn't anyone know how to write a third act?

maybe i don't, but jeez, my third acts are at least as good as the crap out there.

BIG SPOILERS AHEAD FOR "IDENTITY".......

DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE THE MOVIE RUINED.......

AS IF I WAS THE ONE WHO RUINED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE......





identity is just the latest. i can't believe they revealed it was all in the guy's head, and then went back for the third act. in my mind, who cared after that? it didn't matter to me which character lived or died, since they were all in the guy's head.

and, i know i am about to commit sacrelige here, but adaptation had similiar third act problems for me. i know the joke was that the movie turned into the very kind of movie kaufman refused to make, but in doing so, he just blew all pretense of reality in the susan orlean character out of the water (why they hell would a repressed upper west side writer, afraid of living life all through the movie, suddenly decide "we have to kill him" aside from "because that's how to get to the funny third act."

anyway, that's my bugaboo these days....2/3 of a great film, then a lousy tacked on third act.

let me be clear about my feelings aobut vicki king's book "how to write a movie in 21 days."

first of all, it's pretty much like the steve martin joke "how to make a million dollars and not pay taxes...first, make a million dollars..."

only it's "first, write a movie in 21 days."

but it contained two great bits of advice that i always follow:

write every day.

and don't ever set a goal higher than one page a day, because if only write one page and are shooting for 5, you'll be depressed and angry. but anyone can write one page a day.

ok, three things. here's the third:

if you're really rocking on a scene and it's coming out easily, stop before you finish.

so the next day, you can pick up and start writing easitly again.

then, when the irs comes and says why didn't you pay taxes, you say, i forgot. and when they say, you can't forget, you say, excuuuuuuuuse me.

oh, sorry, that's the steve martin joke.

congrats, paul!

right back at ya, paul.

and thanks!

terri,

don't worry about typos on this or any other message board;

the place to worry about typos is the finished script you send out, and it sounds like you are fastidious about that. good for you.

terri,

what mistakes are those? i use final draft and haven't noticed any mistakes in my scripts, and i am a stern proof reader.

yeah, terri, spill it! who was it?

sounds like it was part of some estian/scientology cult thingie...or else i'm paranoid.

anyway, that's not why i'm writing. i have a consultant i use who is not only very reasonable in price, she is excellent in helping you with your script, ie, not telling you how she'd write it, but helping you get your visioin onto the page, if anyone is interested email me for her name.

warning: she is, however, the woman who ran the disasterous pages group that tied me up in emotional knots, so i wouldn't recommend taking a pages group from her!!

i have just finished a series of seminars given by an exec at icm, and he (at one point) expressed the opinion that nicholl (!!!!) was losing its reputation, because recent winners were such bad scripts.

just passing along the info.

i don't know if you'd say this was "inside information," but i emailed them with that question a month ago, and here is their response, in toto:

"Simifinalists will be announced at the end of spring.

Finalists will be named at the end of summer.

Best of luck,

AASC"

spelling error in "semi-finalists" theirs, not mine, which gave me some pause (these are the guys rating my script, they can't even spell? yikes!)

i'll happily give the name of my consultant to anyone who wants to email me. i'm at xnerg@aol.com. please put "consultant" in the subject matter line, as i tend to delete emails from unknown addresses without looking at them, unless the subject line rings a bell.

i have no idea what my contact/instructor at icm meant by his remark either, except to take him at face value, "nicholl is losing its reputation because the winning scripts lately are bad." (paraphrase)

but he's just one guy's opinion.

i have two completed scripts and am working on a third. i see all three in the commercial megaplex theaters, though one is a larger budget than the other two.

and one i wrote specifically for a small budget prodco, maybe even for a straight to video sort of thing.

actually right now i'll just sell any of them to whoever wants to buy them.

i'm also interested in the scope and thrust of your class...what exactly will you be covering in your weekly meetings?

also, what's your background?

randy's right. in fact, i clicked on this thread because i thought you were looking for two treatments with strong female leads, which i happen to have...

i don't know about terri, but i saw all of those coming a mile away.

in fact, soylent green phoned me up for a ride home from the airport.

i've gotten it for a little over a month, terri, here's my answers:



1) How often do you receive it? Once a week, twice a week, etc.?

once a week, on the weekends. supposedly on sunday night, but often on saturday, in my experience.

2) How many pitching opportunities are usually in each Preferred Newsletter?

from 5 to 8, or more. however, they are often very specific in what they are looking for, and to be frank, i don't always find a company whose criteria fit my pitiful number of two complete scripts. ergo, i don't always get chances to pitch each week.

3) Are there good companies, i.e., as in names you recognize with studio deals?

they ain't amblin entertainment, if that's what you mean. however, i google everyone before i pitch, and usually they have completed pictures in their credits. often they tell you their credits in the newsletter itself.

at this point in my screenwriting career, ie, the beginning, i feel happy if anyone who has actually made a film wants to read my script.

4) Are the independents good, as far as you know?

not sure i know what this question means, so i will say, as far as i know, yes.

5) Have you had good experiences when pitching from the sources given in this Preferred Newsletter?

ah, here's where i fail you. i have had so much more success just posting on wsn's site (6 requests for one script, one request for the other). however, i have only received the newsletter about 5 weeks, and sent out only a few email pitches. i did get one reply who said my script wasn't what they were looking for, but feel free to pitch anything else.

however, i pitched them my second script and have yet to hear back, and it's been more than ample time to read my email and hit the "reply" button.

6) Do many--or all--companies listed require the Writer to have current representation when pitching?

the majority don't even mention representation. and a large number (perhaps even a majority) are open to non-guild as well as guild writers in their pitches.

all in all, since i am happy with the response my log lines & synopses have gotten on the wsn site and their dead trees pamphlet as well, i am still feeling good about the preferred newsletter. i figure it's just a matter of finding the right company looking for the right kind of material that my scripts happen to fit.

hey, it's a gamble. but if you didn't like gambling, you wouldn't be a screenwriter, now, would you?

bottom line: if you got the cash, it can't hurt to subscribe for 6 months.

i gotta agree with david e, sorry folks. but i also thought both "unbreakable" and "signs" were the result of too much success too soon with "sixth sense."

i have heard the story in two different classes that m. knight shamalayn (doesn't that sound like the base line in an old 50's do-wop song?) didn't realize until the 5th draft that bruce willis' character was dead in "sixth sense." (i also heard it was the "twelfth draft" in another class).

the point i am trying to make here, is, it's obvious that m. knight worked and reworked and reworked the sixth sense script. but i came away from the other two films feeling like he stopped after draft 3. and, it turns out, he was right to do so, because the majority of people in the world still think he's a brilliant screenwriter.

i go with david e: he got lightning in a bottle once, but since then, he's competent at best. sorry, kids!

i'd say robert towne and william goldman are right up there, and ring lardner, just because i like anyone with the name like ring lardner.

i'd say woody allen's first 3 decades as a screenwriter was brilliant.

goldman's work is very inconsistent, but i should be so inconsistent.

personally i feel, after having completed two scripts and struggling with my third, that anybody who actually gets a script made into a real life movie is worth my admiration.

" have a copy of the book [blood work] and I still have yet to read it. But what's the point now--unless it's for "adaptation study purposes"? "

it's a great book, any book by michael connolly is brilliant. and they totally messed up the ending/reveal/bad guy, compared to the original book.

in the book, jeff daniels character was just that - a goofy warf rat - who happened to be in the right place at the right time to help out clint eastwood's character when needed...

and it was done (in the book) with subtlety, so you were saying to yourself, "damn, how's clint getting out of this mess?" and then after a few pages jeff comes up and says "hey i pulled your fat out of the fire, clint, let's have a beer."

michael connolly is a great mystery writer. i suppose they rewrote it for the masses. in the original book, the bad guy turned out to be the minor character who supposedly helped the first shooting victim at the scene of the crime (i believe played in the movie by the great character actor gerry becker...as i watched the film, having read the book, i thought that it was going to be a great bit of casting...using a minor character actor to be the bad guy, but using a major star like daniels just to play the goofy side kick...now THAT would have been a surprise).

i am so naive.

sorry, got so caught up in blood work, i forgot my original intent to this message...

how about "identity"? was anyone besides me thoroughly disappointed in the "twist"? imho, the twist totally underminded the set up of the characters...ie, who cares, since they are all the same guy anyway?

also, i knew the surprise surprise ending of "identity"...get this now...from watching the ebert and roeper review on tv! they telegraphed it a mile away, while saying "we don't want to give it away!"

please. i miss siskel.

what's the name of your script, steve?

i entered "death takes a vacation."

i'll see you in austin!

terri,

angels' flight is also very good.

i highly recommend anything by michael connelly.

i too like tammi hoag.

hey! i've got a martian underwater romantic comedy! where do i send it????

ok, just kidding. let me address the question currently on the floor.

i can't say i've gotten any actual meetings or even work from wsn or the preferred newsletter.

however i have had my script requested by prodco's who, according to google, have had actual movies made by big studios. (one has just finished a film with new line, and another, which i'm most excited about, has just finished a bruce willis film for sony. these guys have my script!)

so, simply in terms of getting my scripts into doors i would otherwise not get into, i highly recommend wsn.

i can't say i've gotten any farther than getting my scripts into these doors, but for a beginning screenwriter with no rep or credits, i consider this a coup.

on the flip side, i had my script requested by a guy, who, when i googled him, turned out to have even fewer credits than me (needless to say i didn't bother to send it to him).

but now, if you need that underwater martian romantic comedy...

congrats, colin!

you da man!

be sure to let us know how it goes!

yah, what steve said.

i just like the word google better than the initials imdb.

i use all kinds of sites, you are right, it's my generic term.

just to blow my own horn...

my script, "death takes a vacation" made the semi-finals on the "five and dime" screenplay contest!

congrats, james!

asphalt jack's sounds intriguing. good luck!

see you in the finals!

when siskel was alive, my rule was, don't go see a film if siskel and ebert agreed, positive or negative. only go see it if they disagreed, because then it was bound to be interesting.

roeper is just a dork so i discount everything he says.

however, i love rottentomatos.com. it does a good job of catching the feeling of the critics across the land.

al,

"under the mango tree" caught my eye while i was perusing the list for my name. good luck to you!

james,

yes, i did a comedy version of death takes a holiday, but i tacked on the orpheus myth for the third act (death takes the girl with him when he leaves, but her ex-boyfriend follows them to get her back).

i could never figure out how you could do death takes a holiday without doing a comedy.

good luck to everyone!

not only have i seen it, they list a political blog i write as one of their fav blogs

a "blog" is cyber-shorthand for "web log," which started out a few years ago as personal diaries kept on line for others to read (and indeed, many blogs still are that form).

however mine evolved quickly into a political-themed site, where i cull and present the left-wing news from the web (because, imho, there is a dearth of the liberal view point in today's mainstream media). i also engage in sophistry and punditry, and some good old fashioned down home mud slinging (hey, if its good enough for rush limbaugh...)

check out the art deadlines list site, on the right hand column, about halfway down, there is a designation listed as "blogs i read."

most of those blogs are lefty sites, all good ones.

i am blogging anonymously, so i am unable to point out mine without giving myself away. let it just be said that if you read one and it's particularly clever, it's probably written by me.

i agree with ellum, on use of mini-slugs (that's what i learned they were called) instead of full-fledged slug lines.

ie,

KITCHEN

BEDROOM

as opposed to a complete

INT. - KITCHEN - CONTINUOUS

for one thing, the format i learned was that a mini-slug only needs one space in front of it, (formatted as a SCENE DIRECTION)

as opposed to the two spaces in front of it (formatted as a SLUG LINE).

this will actually save you typing and spaces in your script.

i think the debate about active v. passive verbs ("dances" vs. "is dancing,") while a valid debate, is not germaine to the topic of format.

still in all, i have submitted a script with the "amateur" mistake of the wga registeration number on the title page, and rather than being pegged as an amateur, the dev. exec. who read it said i was a good writer and the script was very funny, and while they had no market for that specific story, she'll read anything else i care to bring to her.

my point being, if they like your writing, they'll over look your formatting.

of course, the ultimate goal is to be a great writer with perfect formatting.

i agree with terri, you can write off practically anything when you're a writer.

however, i'd have to add, if you're a writer and you do itemize, you're probably still crazy anyway.

personally, i use dave trottier's screenwriters bible, he's the best.

as far as i'm concerned, if they toss my script cuz they don't like my formatting, it wasn't meant to be...i probably wouldn't like their formatting either.

adding to my great good fortune....

"death takes a vacation" is a finalist in the writemovies.com contest!

you can view my name in print here:

http://www.writemovies.com/results_5_15_03.htm

yes, kinko's does charge less money for a 24 hour turn around (i think it's something like 4 cents a page).

also, the cents sign used to be over the numeral 3 or 4 on the old typewriters, don't know why they took it off of computer keyboards.

for people in the hollywood los angeles area, try the "print & copy factory" 7775 sunset blvd. (about 3 blocks east of fairfax in hollywood, in the little mini mall, north side of street).

they charge 3 cents a page, and if you order 5 copies of your script you get a sixth one free.

the same copy job that cost me $65 at kinko's was about $38 at this place.

and this place was same day service, no extra charge (in an hour, even).

it's worth the drive even if you don't live in hollywood.

i actually liked mannequin.

it didn't try to be anything more than it was...a 'splash' rip off, light and fluffy, silly and fun.

and, geez, some good actors devoted their talents to that project...andrew mccarthy, kim catrall (excellent as the cursed princess), estelle getty,meshash taylor, james spader, and the brilliant g.w. bailey.

we should all be so lucky as to write a bit of fluff that actually gets made and makes money and is rerun endlessly on turner cable channels.

we're not all ring lardner jr. or robert towne. we're lucky if we're the guy that write those movies for the disney channel.

i am reminded of when i went to see a taping of 'murphy brown,' and one of the writers was warming up the audience, interacting with various crowd members.

one guy said he was a writer for 'saved by the bell,' and the writer for 'murphy brown' really ragged on him in front of the whole crowd, as if being a tv writer for 'mb' was so much better than being a tv writer for 'sbtb.'

none of the audience understood, and neither did i. a job's a job, creating is creating, and whether on tv or in the movies, your vision will likely as not be totally twisted by a committee by the time it gets seen by the public.

i repeat what the others say, when i say, nothing personal against you, kevin, but let's not throw stones if we write in glass houses.

thanks, paul.

you are a classy guy.

i appreciate your good wishes.

didn't dolly the sheep invent it?

as i just wrote to paul, these contests are a lot like the business itself... there's no guarantee your script will be read by somebody who (a) likes or even understands your vision, or (b) is even in the mood to read your script at the time it falls into their hands.

hey, that's the breaks! but these 'interns' are definately professionals who business it is to read and recognize marketable talent. you can bet if they are no good at it, they will be gone soon.

so, like life itself, keep trying. i have often heard from professionals in the biz, talent will out, and will be recognized.

i haven't seen it in a while, but we did study parts of it in a recent class i took, and i seem to remember that when malcolm first meets cole, he was a bit put off.

in fact, he wouldn't even come into the room with him, so cole had to make up the game (when i say something true, you take a step forward, when i say a lie, you take a step back), to get the kid into the room.

haven't seen the other instances you talk about.

i disagree about 'sixth sense,' i think it's a really great film, but i agree about m. night ramalamadingdong, he's not a great writer (witness "unbreakable" and "signs").

a good writer who wrote a great script, maybe. i also think if he rewrote the other two films a dozen times before going in front of the cameras, they might have been better.

david lucas:

"Okay last try. If this fails I'll give up. One Mom was not in the room during the game."

i think terri, when she says:

"But I do find it "off" that Cole would do his "make believe game" with his Mom in front of another person. "

is talking about another game. the "step forward if i tell the truth" game (with dead cole) is different than the "i got a new job and great things happened to me" game with mom.

as to "bashing" the work of writers who have made it, i submit

(a) we are not bashing, we are analyzing

(b) if we can't analyze here, where the f**k can we

(c) the medium of the movies is by definition an end-user phenom (ie, it all comes down to, did the consumer enjoy get his money's worth?)

i didn't think i got my money's worth with unbreakable or signs, and it's partially m. night's fault, for raising the bar so high with "sixth sense."

on another point: i don't think the kid was automatically "scared" of all ghosts...probably just the ones with half their faces off who threatened him.

he wasn't particularly scared when he saw dead revolutionary soldiers hanging in his school, if i remember correctly.

and bruce/cole was a nice ghost (dare i invoke casper's name?), and non-threatening, so i can't buy into the "if bruce was dead the kid would have been scared" argument.

bottom line, once we're famous screenwriters, there will be thousands of students picking apart our films (we can only hope).

adrieeeeeeeenne!

adrieeeeeeeeeeene!

yes, i have. you should email or call them.

only in base ten.

here's an update on the semi-finals announcement.

i wrote them an email saying "you stated you'd announce the semi's in the late spring. spring can't get much later than now. any updates?"

they wrote back:

Gil,

The last day of spring is the 21st. We are a tad behind. Stay tuned.

AASC

i didn't say they couldn't get any later, just not much later, he he he.

my two cents...

when i first read colin's post, i felt the same as david e. and terri, but i didn't feel i knew enough to talk about it.

but since the others echoed my initial consternation, i'll pipe up.

boy, if it was me, i'd be happy to sell my idea for a "based on an idea by." if that really bothered you, maybe you could have negotiated a "based on characters created by" credit, for sequels and etc.

but in my mind, what's wrong with getting some bucks and a credit from a major player in hollywood? nothin, in my book.

unless you really think this one script is your ultimate masterpiece, and you'll never ever be able to reproduce that kind of writing again, i'd say go ahead and make the deal! woah!

david e. is right, the "based on an idea by" credit will open some other doors for you.

well, to each their own, do what ever works for you. but if it was me, i'd be at the bank now depositing the check.

to paula: i'm not sure, but it doesn't seem like 7 years is that long for a director. didn't william friedkin go for more than a decade between films? and what about terrence what' his name that just did that world war ii movie last year? wasn't it like 26 years for him?

i agree with terri, nicely put, michael.

inbetween posts i thought of more to say about "bashing" successful writers here on this board.

no, we don't bash. the only difference between what we do and what the regular audience of civilians does when they walk out of a movie and say "boy that sucked" is, we try to analyze it and see why it sucked for us.

and most of us are adult enough to admit that one film that sucks for me could very well be a masterpiece in your eyes, and in fact, in most of the world's eyes.

but if it sucks for me, i want to figure out why, so i don't make the same "mistakes" in my writing, which might make me to look at my finished script and say "boy, this sucks."

good for donna marie! congrats!

here's one thing i love to do...

when i see that "the money pit" (an absolutely awful and forgettable comedy with early tom hanks and late shelly long) is coming on tv, i set my tv channel changer timer to exactly one hour from the start of the film to change back to the channel showing the movie.

then i watch whatever i want to for an hour.

at the hour's change, my tv goes back to the channel showing "the money pit."

and it's time for one of the best slapstick scenes in modern films.

the house is in shambles, with dozens of contractors tearing it down/building it up. shelly and tom wander around a half-built monstrosity, ducking exposed pipes, holes in the walls and floors, tarp and scaffolds.

then a series of rube goldberg-like maneuvers (involving wheelbarrows of cement, teeter-tottering planks of wood, extension cords to power saws being unplugged) manages to send tom hanks flying through the air to the top of the house.

he slides down the crumbling scaffolding in a graceful (buster keaton would be proud) series of tumbles and falls, all the while the sextet from "lucie di lammermoor" sings in the background, as the scaffold slowly disintegrates.

he winds up rolling down the lawn in a cart, falling into a pond, the fountain statue of a little cherub pees water on his head.

it's brilliant. in a terrible terrible terrible movie.

thanks, terri, that's exactly who i meant.

two things:

first, i know bill dear, and if he's attached, the project is in good hands.

secondly, i agree with robert flaxman. though i haven't used his services, and he sounds like a thorough and dedicated consultant, i have used someone whom i found to be professional, helpful and knowledgable. she used to be in development for amblin, so she knows her stuff. and better, she gives you notes about how to make your script do what your own intention is, not what she thinks she would do, not what she thinks another writer would do (and i get the feeling that robert flaxman takes this tact, as well). she gives great notes and plenty of time and is worth the money i have paid her (twice on two different scripts).

email me and i'll gladly give you her name and number.

and, again, it sounds to me like robert is a worthwhile consultant, also.

sue, i can't figure out from your post, are you in favor of the chesterfield or not?

yeah, terri, i thought it was highly ironic that this woman wants to be a writer, and we can't understand what she's trying to say.

yeah, gregory, we need a little more info on the plot.

when i read "he sees through pictures" i thought to myself "and, what? sees the wall they're hanging on? sees the back of the frame?"

yes, that is me. thanks for noticing.

i got more response from that commercial than anything else i've done. (and it was a damn fine paycheck, too!)

i appreciate your keen eye, and your pointing it out.

more like "kramer sose"

could you please email me? i have a question for you about my ibm commercial in denmark.

thanks,

gil c.

xnerg@aol.com

congrats to mylo.

that's inspiration!

we know it's implied, but was it ever stated anywhere in the film (or any other film) that ghosts can't change clothes?

just asking.

he told me to send one of my scritps to him. i'll let you know how it goes

hated the hulk. action scenes at night were too murky to tell what the heck was going on.

hulk looked like a cartoon a la nemo in a real action movie.

story went on too frickin' long. geez, it's a comic book, get with the program already!

2 hours and 20 minutes way too long.

shoot! i was gonna do the bunny-puppy conspiracy!

ok, now i'm just being a jerk here, but...

how do we know those were the clothes they died in? we never saw any ghost other than bruce willis for more than a brief moment...

maybe they changed into those clothes especially to scare haley joel.

ok, i'm just funnin' with ya.

also, in keeping with the title of this thread, my wife commented after seeing the movie that connelly was just walking through her part, basically re-running her "a beautiful mind" role.

my wife called it "a beautiful science project."

i'm game if you are richard.

how's this for a title: "the para-lupis view" ???

or "the man's-best-friend-churian candidate" ?

i remember reading interviews with ingrid bergman where she said she had no frickin' clue (my words, not hers) what her character was about or what was going on during the shoot of casablanca (if i recall, the script was continually reworked as they shot).

though many see her performance as deep and mysterious, i got the impression she saw it as confused and bewildered.

but it worked.

"James Gates. Do you realize the producer is the guy who pays the writer, director etc.? Why would any writer want to be a producer? I know it's, actually I don't know if it's harder to be a writer, but in any case I'd rather be one of the guys who receives the money, not the guy who has to find the money so he can pay others. "

having been a producer (in radio) i discovered this fact:

a producer is just a writer who has to do more paperwork.

"We're writers right? Aren't we inherently anti-social? How do you become a salesperson? If you're not a schmoozer, is there really no hope for you in Hollywood? "

here's how i did it.

luckily for me, i am also an actor. so i wrote out a little script for my self to read over the phone. then i just dialed up a bunch of agents and producers and launched into my script about how i was a writer with a new screenplay would they like to read it?

haven't sold it yet...but i do have it in don buchwald's office...and castlerock and colomby/keaton have both said they'd look at it when i get represenation (harry colomby was incredibly nice and chatted with me for 20 minutes on how to get an agent...very sweet of him to talk to a novice like me).

the point is, you just have to want to succeed more than you want to not talk to people. take it a step at a time.

they're just people, hoping for a major gold mine, just like us. in their heads, you just might be that gold mine.

i sent the generic release form you can find on inktip.com (the website formerly known as writers script network).

pardon me, folks, but plese allow me to toot my own horn here:

my script "death takes a vacation" has made the finals in the script p.i.m.p. screenplay writing contest.

i get to attend a party at the improv, where they announce the winners, and schmooze.

and, thanks to paul mroczka, my bud on this board, who alerted me to the fact that i placed!

one more thing: see my name in print on the script p.i.m.p. page here: http://www.scriptpimp.com/writing_competition/home.cfm

i got an email from these folks, mentioning one of my scripts by name.

i emailed back, asking how they knew about my script (my email address is on my face sheet so i assumed if they had a copy of my script they had my email; perhaps that was an incorrect assumption).

they emailed back saying "probably" from a producer whom i sent it to, who had passed on it.

it made me wonder why they'd want a script in their contest some one had already passed on.

i googled them and got this email submission page:

http://www.fmamanagement.com/content.php

speaking of exposition, i love two examples, both starring michael york, both in "spoof" movies.

first, his role as "basil exposition," austin powers' boss, is brilliant, because the boss in any adventure/spy/crime movie is always the exposition!

even better can be found in an under-rated spoof movie called "wrongly accused" starring leslie nielson as a take off on the harrison ford version of "the fugitive."

michael is the murder victim, but right before he gets killed he's speaking a his killer (who is off camera). he says something like "oh, so you've forgotten why you're here?"

he pulls out a blackboard on which is written the main points of the plot, and he points them out as he rattles off the exposition "your terrorist group wants my mansion for its landing dock in the bay, so you can murder the u.n. diplomat coming to new york next week, thus ensuring..." etc. etc. etc.

big funny about exposition.

pardon me for interrupting, but ---

(jumping up and down for joy and yelling excitedly):

"death takes a vacation" came in third in the writemovies.com contest!

(no money, drat it, but a promise of sending my script around town).

hooray for me!

sorry, i forgot:

you can see my name in print here:

http://www.writemovies.com/results_5_15_03.htm

thanks for the good wishes.

richard, "death" has been a finalist and semi-finalist in other contests, and i've been plugging the hell out of it on this and other boards, hoping to create buzz.

lol! i was trying to make a joke about horse racing.

actually when i found out, and my wife called me, i said, "oh, my script didn't win" and she said "too bad" and i said "and it didn't place" and she said "too bad" and i said "but it showed!" and she didn't know what the heck i was talking about.

so i guess i should stop doing that joke!

apparently when it comes to making a joke, yes, i am, terri!

really robert go away. your initial retort to terri about writing instead of posting here was rude, uncalled for, childish, counter-productive and pretty asanine.

you admit you are not a writer. this is a message board for writers.

in case you can't follow the logic, i'll spell it out for you (something you don't do correctly yourself):

this is a place for positive conversation about the process of screen writing.

if you can't add to it in a positive manner, don't bother.

i have actually stayed in touch with several people i have gone to high school with...thanks to the internet, and my own web site.

here's my opinion, but remember, it's just one guy's opinion.

i thought it was basically like the steve martin joke "how to make a million dollars and not pay any taxes.

first, make a million dollars..."

the advice i read in the book, i thought was pretty obvious and shallow. write good dialogue. make sure your second act doesn't lag. don't over write. etc. etc. etc.

stuff you hear anywhere else.

it's not a bad book but it's not full of secrets you won't find anywhere else that can get you past a hollywood reader.

just my opinion.

man, you want to hear about mood swings?

my script "death takes a vacation," as you may know, came in third on the writemovies.com screenplay contest, and is in the final 20 at scriptpimp.com contest, and the semi's at fiveanddime.com.

but....

a polite pass from nicholl, (not even in the "next 10%" as some of you have gotten) which is depressing enough,

but...

american accolades, which only got 600 entries this year, not only also passed on my script for the semi-final cut, they also sent a letter outlining the scripts "strengths" (which were few) and "weaknesses" (which were numerous as well as vague. in fact, when my wife read the letter, she said it sounded like they only read the first 10 and last 10 pages).

so i'm completely confused now. i know it's a subjective process, but boy, this is beyond subjective and moving into the schizophrenic. it's one thing to not make the cut in the biggest contest, but also in the smallest contest? while winning the medium contests?

i guess i should be really really happy with what i got, but i got the am.acc. and nicholl letters in the same week, so i feeling quite confused.

oh well, onward and upward, i guess...

i am stuck on page 50 of my murder mystery. haven't moved in several weeks.

but i am also working on a tv pilot with a buddy of mine, he hired me (for the fee of zero dollars) as the head writer, and i perform in it as well.

and, i'm taking my wife on a cruise to alaska in a month, so that's kind of grabbing our focus these days.

steve --

i have a pet cockatiel named snowflake.

it was so funny to read your sentense "snowflake got me a meeting with a well known producer."

the image in my mind is hilarious! my little yellow pearly pied bird sitting at a big desk telling a producer "ya gotta meet with this kid, he's great, i tell ya!"

slightly off topic, but i got three responses in a row to my script, that, taken singularly, actually meant nothing, but three in a row, made me pound my head against the wall wondering what they were trying to tell me.

first: not consistent enough.

second: didn't take the concept far enough.

third: great until page 50, then it lost me.

none of these comments actually help me to rework the story, because i have no idea what they actually are saying.

has anyone heard about the finalists in the five and dime.com contest?

they were supposed to announce yesterday.

i haven't heard anything.

my email inquiry to them goes unanswered.

i don't know about coverage.

i do have a consultant whom i highly recommend. she is very worth the money and she gives great feedback to your script.

i've used her twice. one script she helped me on has gotten good coverage in the industry and is making good progress in various contests this year.

email me if you'd like her name and number.

please put "movie bytes" or "script consultant" in the re: line, so i don't think it's spam and delete it.

run, don't walk, away from both the consultant and the producer.

this is a scam, and i haven't even read the letter.

gee, michael, with all due respect, that's kind of a catty thing to say.

who knows what "babe" is like on the page? i think john's main point was, the supposed "weakness" of the script (as defined by am. accolades) did not, in his opinion, have validity (ie, how plausible does a fairy tale have to be?)

as to paul's question: i received my letter last week. i am not sure why you haven't gotten yours yet.

re: they haven't responded to your email: try peterscott@AmericanAccolades.com.

ok, i obviously didn't mean "babe" in my last comment. i was referring to john's friend's script, "bucking for redemption."

as great as movie bytes message board is, one complaint i have is, when you click on "add a new message" button, you get a new screen without the old messages in the thread, thus making it difficult to refer to them, unless you have a great memory, or have the smarts to open "new message" page in a new window (i have neither).

i will agree with terri and paul about inktip.

though i have not made a sale, which is, i suppose, the ultimate measure of success, i have had 6 prodcos and/or managers request copies of one script, and another prodco request a copy of my other script, after posting them both on inktip.

the second script has only been on for a little over two months.

i just now logged onto scriptpimp for the first time. (i recieved a free subscription for placing highly in their contest, so i may not be the person to ask about value...it's valuable to me, i get it for free!)

it looks like a good deal...plenty of prodco's and management companies willing to look at new writers...i will see what kind of results i get.

i have no personal knowledge about script shark, other than, after looking at the site, deciding it wasn't worth the money. but that's my own opinion.

has anyone besides myself entered the five and dime contest?

they haven't posted the finalists, and it's a week after their scheduled announcement.

worse, they haven't returned any of my emails or my phone call.

anyone know?

thanks paul, but their website actually says the grand prize and second place winner will be announced aug. 29.

it also states the finalist would be announced (supposedly) july 30, which was last week.

as these guys refuse to return my emails or phone calls, i am left hanging.

you are right, paul, i didn't see that.

for some reason, i stopped reading after seeing my name! ha ha ha!

thanks for clarifying that.

but i did at least see "under the mango tree" and thought that was an interesting title, good luck allan!

tooting my own horn again...

after recently not making the cut in a couple of contests (and thus shaking my confidence, silly me), my script "death takes a vacation" is in the semi-finals at scriptapalooza.

also congratulations to james barclay, whose "asphalt jacks" made it to the semi's as well...

if other moviebytes mavens made it and i didn't recognize your name, my apologies, and congrats!

"And even if you think you're above the "whole scriptwriting book thing", consider going back to school for a refresher course. "

well said.

the person that doesn't think they need to learn anything has a lot to learn.

thanks kindly, everyone!

and terri, you are too kind!

congrats, doreen, keep on writing!

hope you've entered some other contests as well.

any placement in a contest, especially one as well known as scriptapalooza, is a good thing, and impresses people.

i am pleased to report that my script "death takes a vacation" has made the finals in the scriptapalooza contest.

in the top 30 finalists out of 2947 entries!

"What's next? The Beverly Hillbillies? "

they already did that. seriously. with jim varney as uncle jed and cloris leachman as granny, dabney coleman as mr. drysdale.

as to s.w.a.t., i heard one of the writers who was brought in on it speak at a writing seminar. he pretty much admitted that it's impossible to get a pure vision through the studio system, so you just wind up being happy to get money to write something.

and s.w.a.t. had many writers involved.

here's another boring film: le divorce. not the light hearted comedy the previews would have you think.

(not even particularly funny in my opinion).

congrats, scott!

i have used a script consultant on two of my scripts.

she was very reasonable for price and i found her comments, critiques and suggestions incredibly helpful.

her name is pilar allesandra and she can be located at www.onthepage.tv.

she approaches your script on the basis of what you were trying to do and how close you came to doing it, and what you could do to actually achieve your goal.

in other words, none of this "well why don't you make it a western instead" kind of crap.

i don't remember wilbur being a drunk.

he was actually a very successful architect in the series (although mr. ed helped him with some of the plans now and then).

amen, jerry!

ok, if we're going to talk about boxing, be sure to research one "k.o. christner" a fighter in the 20's and 30's, who was my distant relative.

my screenplay, "death takes a vacation," has come in fifth place in the scriptapalooza contest.

i win screenwriting software, consideration by literary management and production companies, and the undying admiration of my peers.

my name in print here: www.scriptapalooza.com.

click on "scriptapalooza" and then on "winners."

d. jay,

as he never became very famous, i would imagine "k.o." was on the receiving end of his moniker's implications.

lol, paul!

thanks to everyone for your good wishes.

i am really stoked. scriptapalooza just emailed me (and, i assume, all winners/runners up) wanted copies of the script to send to prodco's.

we'll see how it goes! keep your fingers crosssed!

:click:

- - bang! - -

sorry, couldn't resist.

i agree with faith et. al, who say patience is a virtue (or was it patience who said faith is a virtue?) in this biz.

i have sent out my script to a more than half a dozen managers/prodco's since march. to date, only 4 have responded, without a follow up query (half passed, half are interested).

i followed up last month to everyone else, only two responded with a "we plan to get to your script soon!"

i'm not taking it personal. it's not like i'm the only writer out there.

and who knows. maybe somebody's mother got sick the very day they received my script.

(one agent, who turned out to like my script and asked for another script of mine because of it, had my script since april. when they finally called, they said one of the agents had a baby and that put everything on hold for a while. maybe this is what's happening.)

guess what, that's show biz, literally. get used to it. in our house we have a saying, "no news is bad news, move on."

remember, though, all it takes is one "yes." (a quote i read on some other thread here at moviebytes).

lol, ron!

colin aside, here's a little story to encourage us all about sending out scripts and never hearing for weeks at a time...

a few weeks ago (july 17, just checked my logs) i was at an audition and was talking with a friend of mine. i told him about my script coming in third in a contest.

a woman nearby said "that's great news, you should be proud. i'm with a small lit agency and believe me, most stuff we get is bad!"

we talked, and long story short, she volunteered to read my script and pass it on to her boss if she thought it was worthwhile.

i sent it to her the next day.

totally forgot all about it. (that's the key, kids. stay busy. send out to lots of folks. keep a log, but don't hang on every submission).

punch line: i just today got an email from this woman, saying she just read my script this last weekend (!! - four whole weeks after she got my script!!)

she said she liked it and will pass it on to her boss.

so, i'll repeat the mantra ellum likes so much...no news is bad news, move on.

but in this case, it was good news, but i didn't drive myself nuts about it because i had moved on.

now, as for colin...who knows if he's go the scripts or not. but that's a good excuse to call him up once we find out where his new office is.

more to the point, this is an excellent example of what stuff can be going on that makes people unable to read your script and get back to you.

you can bet colin didn't just decide to leave origin. there must have been some stuff going on one way or another, keeping him busy.

just to stir things up a bit...

i would posit that creating a distinct voice for a character comes not from one speech or bit of dialogue, but from working on everything they say in the script.

example: i wrote an early draft of a script in which two major (but not starring) characters were twins.

they sounded pretty much the same.

upon my third re write, i went back and chose one twin to be the more cynical of the two.

i did this only by added a "yeh, right" here and there sparingly in bits of her dialogue.

same script: i had a best friend of the main character heroine.

in the rewrite i decided to make the best friend from the fargo minnesota zone of movie-dom.

so i just added a "don'cha know" here and a "fer cryin in the sink" there.

just my two cents.

yeh, right.

i have used a great consultant, and will use her again. her fee is a bit higher than barb's, but in my mind worth every cent. ($1.50 a page)

her name is pilar alessandra and you can find her web page at www.onthepage.tv.

be sure to mention gil christner referred you, though i don't get anything except brownie points for it.

james, you really want to see underworld?

i haven't seen it, but from the previews it looks to me to be a really great film IF I HADN'T ALREADY SEEN THE MATRIX FILMS.

(sorry for the shouting/caps, but there's no way to bold or italicize on this message board!)

maybe i'll go see kill bill, but i agree with the initial post, i am underwhelmed by the fall movies.

guess we'll just have to go out and write a bunch of good ones ourselves!!

i haven't heard anything...including your information about the website!!!

i haven't gotten any letter yet...

hey collin, didn't i see that "apollo 18: the lost mission" won another contest somewheres along the way?

thanks, gary!

it's nice to see a familiar title in the finals for the hollywood symposium contest.

congrats to james barclay for "asphault jacks" getting into the finals!

oh, yes, and so did "death takes a vacation" by yours truly!

hooray for both of us!!

too easy...

"swordfish."

here's my opinion, but don't take it to the bank.

if it were me, i'd write it like this:

As the smoke clears we see a bouquet of flowers in the hand of a 26 year-old man, his white shirt sleeve sticking out from that of his black jacket, standing in the

INT STARDUST LOUNGE NIGHT

To the man’s side is a placard etc etc etc.

i could be way wrong though so don't sue me if someone calls you on it.

anyone looking for colin o'reilly can find him at his new literary agency web site content management:

http://www.contentmgmt.net

"death takes a vacation" got to the second round but not the semi's.

i was pissed! i have a good friend who lives in austin and i was planning a whole big vacation around this festival.

i can't fault you for looking forward to kate beckinsale in tight leather.

get out of town, how can you bold and underline? if i had known I WOULDN'T HAVE SHOUTED!!

it's sad, especially in john ritter's case.

i never had occasion to work with him, but everything i heard was that he was the nicest guy to work with, and always pleasant and up and happy.

and being a johnny cash fan, i am very saddened by his passing too.

rip both johnny's.

have fun, kids!

if i made the second round i would have gone, but it's way too expensive for air fare, hotel and the festival ticket.

let us know how it goes!

it's difficult, but not impossible.

do you have any friends in the business? hit them up for a referral. i got my script into three important agencies by asking my friends to show it to their agents. (none of them bit).

get one of those books with all the agencies phone numbers and sit down one day and just phone every single one of them. you'll get rejected a whole lot. but some people will say "send me a log line." i got my scripts into a top agency by sending a log line. they liked my writing alot, and suggested if i were to rewrite one of the scripts they'd love to read it again, and they will read my next script i am working on. (but didn't sign me).

just keep putting it out there. i am also an actor, and at one audition in the green room last month i was talking to another actor friend of mine. i mentioned my script was doing well in contests.

another actor was listening, and she said, "i'm a receptionist for a literary agency..." yada yada yada, long story short, i sent her my script. she liked it and passed it on to her boss, the agent.

and, happy ending (or hopefully, happy beginning!): i just signed with this agent. she's small, but very enthusiastic. i figure a hungry small agent might be better than a self-satisfied huge agency where i'm just one of many clients.

she's already gotten my script into a couple of major prodco's in town.

keep

quite to my delight and surprise (mainly because it did not make the final draft cut)...

"death takes a vacation" made the semi-finals at chesterfield!

i am flabbergasted, and quite happy!

who else?

the pain i felt when i read my email from final draft saying my script didn't make the finals was mitigated the next day when chesterfield told me i made their semi's.

thanks to everyone for your good wishes.

colleen, you may want to call or email them.

good luck!

hey guys...

i got a suite of screenwriting software as one of the prizes in a contest i showed in (as opposed to winning or placing..that's right, i came in third!)

the software is movie magic, story view, and prmatica pro.

i already have final draft, which i like alot. however story view and dramatica pro can interface with movir magic, but not with final draft (what a surprise!)

my question: is it worth switching from final draft to movie magic to be able to interface with these other two programs?

has anyone out there worked with both final draft and movie magic? any opinions?

any troubles with movie magic that anyone can warn me about?

thanks in advance...

anybody going to the screen writers expo in los angeles next month?

any recommendations for lectures?

hi guys,

i'm in the middle of the first draft of a murder mystery (very light hearted, hopefully it will become "the thin man" of the new millenium).

but it's turning out to be harder to write than my previous first drafts.

anybody know of any good books/seminars/material for writing murder mystery screenplays?

hey! my ears are burning!

seriously, thanks for the kind words, shell!

i found the read aloud feature to be a fun novelty to play with.

but it's better to get real actors to read your stuff aloud. they know things like inflection, pauses, beats, comic timing, etc.

cubs and red sox in the series!

sorry, i'm having a hard time containing my smirky remarks!

but it could happen!

after all the angels won last year!

i'm rooting for the cubs to go all the way, cuz i love the underdog!

sorry to get political here, but...

anyone besides me totally blown away by limbaugh's remarks about mcnabb on the countdown this weekend?

is this nietzsche fella gonna be a part of the group?

i highly agree with the "put it on the shelf" theory. in both my last script and this current first draft i am working on, i started both at in the spring time, and (for different reasons) took the whole summer off from even approaching the scripts. then i took them both up again in the fall.

who knows maybe i'm biochemically incapable of writing scripts in the summer. it could happen.

but, while i agree, there's no rush on the re=write...

i would respectfully suggest you make detailed notes RIGHT NOW about the comments and suggestions the lady (and anyone else) made to you concerning your script.

and slightly on the subject, i follow the advice of a friend of mine who is a professional reader as well as writer...i don't even consider a note about my script unless i get similar notes from a total of three people.

in other words, don't go changing your script just cause one person gave you their two cents. make sure it's a general opinion about how to make your script better.

must also join in congratulating you on finishing a script. it's a long hard arduous process, and just getting it done deserves accolades.

why not send it out? get k callan's book "the script is finished now what do i do" or skip press "writers guide to hollywood prodcers directors and screenwriters agents" and find some phone numbers of folks to call up and pitch to.

and, as stated above, get ready for about a billion "no thanks."

but as someone said on this board elsewhere, "all it takes is one 'yes'!"

hi guys,

for those of you who live in los angeles...

there will be a world premiere party and showing of a tv pilot i was head writer on (plus a performer!) this month.

it will be on oct. 15 at 7:30 at the silent movie theater on fairfax in hollywood.

the show is a cross between elvira and mystery science theater with a little of laugh-in thrown in for good measure.

please go to this website for further details:

http://www.wallyontheweb.com/movieparty.html

free snacks and drinks provided after the showing of the pilot.

we hope to sell this sucker to a cable network. in the meantime, we plan to have a great party on the 15th.

come in costume...make it an early halloween!

several old-time celebs will be there...julie newmar, wil wheaton, david naughton, etc etc.

it will be fun! everyone is welcome!

there is an rsvp email address on the website to assure you a seat.

please come!

gil c.

thanks, tom! i appreciate the kind words!

tom, who wrote the original post on this thread:

i hate to say this, because it's so frickin' corny, but it's so true, especially in screenwriting:

winners never quit and quitters never win.

like richard, my script which did not make the nicholl first cut is now a semi-finalist (and "holding," as richard says) in chesterfield.

the same script wound up in the third (bottom) tier of quarterfinals in another, smaller contest (contest "a"). the winner of that same contest was a script that also won another contest i entered (contest "b"). the irony, is in that contest b, my script came in third, two behind the winner script, that was about 95 scripts ahead of mine in the contest a.

the point? very different readers, very different parameters, in those two contests (except, they both loved that other guy's script).

but it did me no good whatsoever to complain or get bitter.

the way to be a writer is to write. the way to be a good writer is to re-write.

keep at it. don't waste your time, your focus, your energy and your karma complaining about one contest. dude, it does not become you.

i second jeremy's thought.

i felt the same way about underworld. gun battles seemed so unimaginative in a movie about vampires vs. werewolves.

and i never saw any indication those people were vampires, except once a girl flew up to the ceiling.

big waste of time except the were wolf changing was good, and kate beckinsale in leather.

dude...

spend more time writing and less time bitching.

also saw "intolerable cruelty" which was a pretty unremarkable film. good chemistry between the two leads but a bad movie for that chemistry to be wasted in.

imho, the film vacillated between high farce and romcom. but not enough jokes and pace for farce, and not enough real human emotion for romcom.

pretty disappointing considering the lineage.

hi kids,

just want to put out one last call for an audience for the world premiere of the tv pilot i was head writer on.

wednesday night, oct. 15, at the siletn movie theatre in hollywood on 611 north fairfax (7:30)...

details at http://www.wallyontheweb.com/movieparty.html

a goofy cross between elvira and mystery science theatre, with a little of laugh-in thrown in for good measure.

press will be there, as will free snacks. also b movie celebs yvonne de carlo, julie newmar, david naughton, wil wheaton, dustin diamond, and more (including me).

please excuse this shameless plug.

hope to see you there!

congrats, terri!

i agree with gary...what is the script worth to you?

i have two completed scripts...one is my masterpiece, my brain child, i want this one to go for lots of money and make me famous.

ha ha ha.

the other one, like your ghost story, i knocked off in a week or so a few years ago, and pulled out of the closet recently and did a minor rewrite, mainly as an exercise to keep my rewrite skills sharp. i'd sell this one for what ever someone offered.

good luck what ever you do, and happy birthday.

i have heard from a number of professional development people that YES! INCLUDING THE ENDING! in a synopsis.

nobody wants to buy something they don't know what it is, and the ending, trick or otherwise, is part of what it is.

i highly recommend scriptapalooza, writemovies.com, and script pimp. i had the good luck of placing in all of these contests, and everybody involved in the running and administration of all three contests were incredibly helpful, very encouraging and very professional. emails always answered, phone calls always returned, a pleasure to be in all these three.

i will reiterate my advice, with this caveat:

i respect and enjoy trading messages with all the moviebyters with whom i currently disagree on this subject. really. you are all the best! i love you all!

that being said, i have recently taken a couple of seminars from chris lockhart, currently in the development department at icm.

(is that good enough credentials?)

he absolutely insists a synopsis has everything including the ending, esepcially if it is a trick ending.

also, pilar alessandra, my mentor/consultant/teacher, who used to be a development exec at dreamworks, echoes this sentiment.

at this stage of the game, nobody is asking you for a synopsis to see if the story "is interesting." they are already interested.

they want a synopsis to see if you've taken it to interesting places, and how you do it.

they don't say to themselves, "hm, if the synopsis is tantalizing, i might read the script."

no. they say "if this person has an interesting idea as to where the story goes, i'll read the script."

and they don't say, "boy that synopsis really sparked my interest, i've just got to read the script to see how the story comes out."

no. they say "yes, that synopsis showed me this writer can take the story to new and interesting places. now i have to see if he/she is a good writer, so i'll ask for the script."

a synopsis is not "a teaser." it's not a "blurb." it's a tool to show your ability to work with structure, including satsifying (albeit tricky) endings.

trust me on this one. everyone i talk to says if you don't put an ending on your synopsis you look pretty silly (someone above said "silliness to the nth degree," and i would agree).

the actual premiere itself was rocking!

lots of b level celebs! my niece (who was also an extra in the pilot) was in heaven because dustin diamond (screech on saved by the bell) was talking with her all night.

the munstermobile delivered celebs to the front door of the theater...

full house, and they all loved the showing of the pilot.

comedy central, national lampoon, and some production companies were in attendance...

i think we've got some trimming and re-shaping to do before we've got a solid project, but there was definately great work up on the screen, and lots of potential.

lots and lots of laughs.

thanks for asking! and thanks for spotting my commercial!

well, wayne, they may not be interesting in "reading" your screenplay, but they are definately interested in "learning about" your screenplay, otherwise they would pass on your synopsis.

maybe i mis-spoke: maybe i meant, if they ask for a synopsis, they are interested in your story.

and as for contests, they are interested in your story by virtue of cashing your check! so you should include the ending in your synopsis, because, if your script does well, the contest will forward your synopsis to interested prodco's.

at the risk of repeating myself, all i know is my professional industry contacts all agree, the synopsis should have the beginning, middle and end, including (especially) the "trick" ending.

good job, james! congrats!

super great news, shell! congrats! i'll be looking for you smiling down at us from the winner's circle!

the thing is very high on my list.

also silence of the lambs.

the original alien really freaked me out. when i first saw it i went back home to my apartment in san francisco, and as i was in the bathroom, looking in the mirror, still thinking about the flick, a little mouse jumped out of the garbage and scurried across the floor!

needless to say i was totally freaked!

lol!

it's all good!

on the other hand, tom, it can't hurt!

my script has made quarter finals, semi finals and honorable mentions as well as finals. i list them all.

keep in mind that even just the quarter finals puts your script in a small percentile of entries.

i'd say, on the way to making the sale, toot your horn for all its worth. quarter, semi, honrable, if you got it, flaunt it!

i would definatley recommend writemovies.com. i actually came in third in their contest, and i can assure you the gang at writemovies.com were incredibly helpful and professional from the get-go.

i would also highly recommend scriptapalooza and scriptpimp contests. they are both also professionally run and both were always happy to return my emails and answer my questions almost immediately.

i agree 100% with the other guys.

i have been told by numerous professionals that a wga or copyright number on your face sheet is not the mark of a professional.

thanks, shell, terri and ellum! i got a certificate and everything!

i thought danny's name sounded familiar when i read the winners...congrats to you, danny!

i appreciate the fellowship and support this board gives me.

thanks to everyone for your good wishes, and thanks for being a part of a great on line support group that has helped me a lot!

matthew,

email me for info on writers bootcamp.

matthew,

i forgot to add, put "moviebytes.com" in the subject line so i don't think it's spam and delete it.

i do too.

it's not a spreadsheet, like jerry's, but it does have times, dates, addresses, follow ups, comments (good and bad) plus phone numbers.

though lately, as i signed with an agent about a month ago, i have not entered everything she has done into my own personal log.

i highly recommend keeping a log.

terri,

ignore whoever sent you that nasty email.

better yet, post the name on this board so we can all see who is such a coward as to send emails derriding one of our members instead of posting it out here for all to see how petty and ignominious they are.

congrats to all of you guys!

keep on going!

got my letter today....and...

yes! death takes a vacation has made the final round of chesterfield!

congrats, colleen!

and kirsten, trust me, i am doing everything i can to get it produced!!!

what z. core said.

actually i think its a great idea.

i was talking to my wife about clint eastwood as a director, and said he did a great job with "unforgiven" because he infused everything with mythic proportions, which is pretty much how a good western works.

when you said "greek myths" it fit right into my idea of a western.

i think done right it would be a smash hit.

and let me add:

i have written folks who have requested my scripts, usually about a month or two after having sent it.

many failed to respond. but then again, many also responded, most with a "haven't been able to get to it yet, hope to read it soon."

and of those folks, many actually read it and contacted me, with a polite "no thanks, not for us."

so at least i got closure, which i wouldn't have had if i hadn't followed up.

as z. core said, a polite follow up a month later is no big thing.

good going, doug!

you know, there's 5 fellowships, so you and colleen and i can have one each, and there's still 2 left over for the other folks.

good going, doug!

you know, there's 5 fellowships, so you and colleen and i can have one each, and there's still 2 left over for the other folks.

here's how i did it in my current script:

WALTER Didn’t I tell you to stay out of that? Let the police handle it. He looks at the paper.

INSERT - COMPUTER PRINT OUT

of Tran’s digital photo of the back of the car showing the license plate.

WALTER Besides, there’s no way this car could be involved. This is a city car. Used by somebody in the city government.

also, when in doubt consult trottier's screenwriter's bible. page 121.

he recommends adding a BACK TO SCENE after the insert, which, since my insert is just a picture and not words to be read, i have neglected to use.

ok, the formatting is all screwed up in this message board, i was attempting to simulate a script format in the above message.

i may disagree with some of the previous comments, but only in terms of what works for me.

remember do what works for you.

i don't write with an outline...it's worked for me on two scripts, but my current script i may admit might have gone better with an outline.

also, i don't mind going back and rewriting what i've written, but with this caveat:

(thanks to vicki king of "how to write a script in 21 days.")

i set a goal for myself of at least one page of new material a day.

it's such an easy goal to obtain, i never wind up dissing myself for not making it, but i do force myself to sit down and write at least one page a day.

most of the time of course i wind up writing more...three, four, eight pages. but at least one a day of new material.

that means if i go back and rewrite what i did yesterday, that doesn't count. i still owe myself one page of new stuff.

and if you only write one page a day, then in 120 days you'll have a first draft.

but as i said, my approach is not the same as anyone else's...do what works for you.

with all due respect, if the guy didn't actually violate the rules, there's nothing to complain about.

life is not fair. people whom we think don't deserve the chances they get still get the chances they get.

it's all perspective. i'll be the people who get those chances we dont' think they deserve, themselves think indeed they do deserve those chances.

i'll bet benderspink thinks the guy deserves the chance and the nicholl fellowhip.

the nicholl people obviously think he deserves it.

i would think that only the screenwrite who was number 6 or seven in the judging process would have a legitimate complaint about this.

otherwise, it's just show biz, and the way to be a writer is to write.

seriously, and i mean this with respect and positive energy, sour grapes are not attractive.

and the best revenge is living well. write a great script, and i guarantee you it will be noticed.

there's way not enough good writing in this town.

become one of those great writers, and the paltry nicholl fellowship $$ will seem laughable to you.

if you really have a bug up your...sorry, i mean, a bee in your bonnet about this, i suggest you actually take it up with greg beal and the nicholl people.

otherwise my suggestion is to get back to your script and work hard and be happy you are blessed by the muse to want to create, for that is actually the goal, not the six figure deal.

trust me. as an actor in my early years i often griped about other people getting the breaks...as i matured, i decided to give up the complaining and just hone my craft...and now, there are people complaining about how i get the breaks!

be happy for the guy, because his success just proves it's possible.

i simply can not fathom how you could write something you're not passionate about.

without trying to sound snarky, i have done it, and the motivation was a paycheck.

so i was basically passionate about the salary, and not the project(s).

nope, i didn't make it either.

but i got the same offer to enter for free next year.

i sure could have used the $20,000, though!

oh well, we did better than the majority of the entrants!

this is actually the first time i heard that snarky is gender specific...

taking it from the context in which i've heard it used, i would define snarky as snippy, holier-than-thou with a 'tude, mean simply for the sake of being mean, to wit, snide malarky, ie, snarky!

yeah, i too wondered what was so over the top about it.

i took it as tongue in cheek humor, a la his cowboy genre.

though i didn't get a fellowship, the fact i placed so highly in the chesterfield really impressed the hell out of myself. i have renewed confidence in my script.

i will tell you the contests that really helped as far as tangible results.

my placing as an honorable mention in scriptapalooza got a request for my script from over a dozen prodco's, agents and mgmt. companies. and major prodco's too, not just bob's movies. (folks like tarrnatino's prodco, nbc skycastle, sam goldwyn films, etc).

mark and genevieve of scriptapalooza were very encouraging and flexible and professional, working closely with me and my agent in distributing my script to these companies. i can't recommend this contest highly enough.

the second best response i got was from an honorable mention in the hollywood symposium contest. 2 different agencies wrote me asking if i wanted representation. as i already am signed, i had to pass, but i thought it was interesting that i got a bite from that contest.

the contest whose experience i thoroughly enjoyed, and would recommend, are writemovies.com, where my third place winning got me a great lunch with the other winners, the writemovies staff, and 6 producers. very nice time and some good contacts.

and i also enjoyed the scriptpimp contest, chadwick was very professional, and the finalists all got a really nice evening at the improv in hollywood for the awards ceremony.

did i get any actual rewards from these contests? on the micro scale, no, unless you count the 4 boxes of software i got.

on a macro scale, yes, on two fronts: firstly, my script doing so well in so many different contests really gave me confidence not only in my screenplay but in my writing ability.

and secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it was a conversation with a friend at an audition about my script winning these contests that was overheard by a woman who works for what eventually became my agent.

the woman agreed to read my script, and the rest is history.

if you can afford contests, i'd recommend those mentioned above.

i love the writers store, i live literally two blocks away from it, i go there all the time!

not much? there's only one placement that could be better!

congrats! any placement in any contest is worth bragging about!

hi guys,

i want to share a few feelings and ask if anyone has ever been through a similar mindset that i am currently in.

i wouldn't call it writers block, or a mental block. but work on this third script of mine is definately progressing at a much slower pace than my previous two works.

the first two scripts, when i wrote the first draft of each, it practically jumped out of my head. my fingers flew across the key board. now, granted, the subsequent drafts of each were hard work, and i did alot of rewrites, and the second, third and fourth drafts didn't "jump out of my head." but the first draft on both seemed like it pretty much "wrote itself."

the first draft of my third script, however, is not flowing out of my head as smoothly. i am embarrassed to say how many months i've been working on it. i am just about into the third act, and i can see the words "the end" waaaaay off in the distance, so i am making progress.

i had a major stumbling time this summer, when i just decided to take 3 months off from it, and i worked on other projects. then coming back to it in september, i took the vicki king "how to write a script in 21 days" approach of setting a small goal of just one page per day.

i didn't actually keep to that goal, but i did make significant progress.

i think i have two big problems: one, i am writing a murder mystery for the first time, and with setting up clues and making logical progressions not only for the heroine, but also for the whole set of circumstances that the bad guys are involved in, is a lot harder than i thought it would be.

also, i wrote the first two scripts kind of in a vacuum; that is to say, i wrote the first first draft as a lark, i wrote the second script's first draft in class, then i took more classes to actually learn about the craft of screen writing.

well now i am unfortunately too smart for my own good. i write something and i immediately start judging it: "no, that's not a movie scene, that's too preposterous, people don't do that!"

then i get discouraged and quit. i have misplaced my ability to turn off my "judging" machine and just spew out a first draft.

has anybody ever found themselves in this mindset? any remedies? any thoughts? any drugs? anybody?

wow, thanks to everyone who had suggestions and support for me.

i appreciate it!

i'll try that scene navigator thing on final draft, that's what i use, but i never tried the navigator.

one of my problems that i failed to mention is, i'm a pretty prolific writer, and i have a few other projects going on at the same time.

even worse, i keep a political web log which i write on daily.

so my problem isn't really writer's block. it's writing-a-script-called-"jenny-swerdlow,-restaurant-detective" block.

but to be truthful, just knowing you guys are out there and have experienced the same crap, and were willing to listen to my crap has really helped.

thanks to you all.

christina,

i don't want to be contrary here, but i would suggest that there are plenty of "horror-specific" contests out there to submit to.

granted, none of them have the "patina" of nicholls, or the prestige.

but you might want to find out just how good within that genre your script is, so you might want to submit to contest that specify horror (shriek-fest, break through with a scream, deadlight, cinefest, etc).

i offer this advice because i have a comedy horror script that i am considering to enter in these contests.

but you know, as the others have said, it's absolutely not a waste to enter into the nicholl.

after all, if you don't try, you'll never know, will you?

being a paranoid outsider myself, i am a big fan of the late philip k. dick's work in speculative fiction (formerly "sci-fi").

for the uninitiated, dick focused on questions of self vs. the other, identity, huge conspiracies involving shadow governments and cool ways to get killed, all with generous dollops of humor and fear.

several movies have been made from dick's works, (and you don't know how much i love to be able to write the word "dick" so much with an innocent face). aside from the upcoming ben affleck film paycheck, here's a list of the ones I know:

blade runner (based on do androids dream of electric sheep?)

screamers (based on second variety)

total recall (based on i can remember it for you wholesale)

imposter (based on imposter).

minority report (based on minority report)

discussion: which is the best dick film? which is closest to the dick vision? which dick book has not been made into a dick film that you would like to see up on the big dick screen? (my nomination is ubik, some real good dick).

time out of joint is good. i also like the zap gun. you are right, though, none of those films captured what dick was trying to write about.

i didn't see imposter, though, and that looked like the one film that had the best chance of translating dick to film.

why richard?

i ask because i have a copy of dramatica pro and movie magic screenwriter that i won in one of the contests, and i was going to try to sell them on ebay.

but if it's got a bad rep, i may have to rethink it.

ps, if anyone wants to buy a copy of dramatica pro or movie magic, drop me a line.

hadn't heard about kaufman doing thru a scanner darkly. kaufman doing dick would be interesting, though personally i thought scanner darkly not to be prime dick.

i agree, man in the high castle, and i enjoyed valis too. them's good dick!

i agree with you pam, when pitching my script around, more than one organization wanted to know where i had pitched it previously, for the very reasons you stated.

i had no trouble telling them, and i don't think it's a bad thing in that case.

i wrote five more pages today...the protags are coming up to the battle scene...i can see the words "the end" in the distance on the horizon...

my goal is to finish my first draft by the end of the year...

thanks richard,

i appreciate the info.

i hadn't thought of donating it charity (i'm so frickin' greedy!)

i got written feedback from american accolades (quite negative) and from hollywood symposium (quite positive) on the same script.

and, i did not receive the hollywood symposium feedback when they said they sent it out, so they were gracious enough to send it out again.

i got very positive verbal feedback from scriptapalooza.

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all...

and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2004, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "America" in the Western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, or sexual orientation of the wishee. This wish is limited to the customary and usual good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first. "Holiday" is not intended to, nor shall it be considered, limited to the usual Judeo-Christian celebrations or observances, or to such activities of any organized or ad hoc religious community, group, individual or belief (or lack thereof).

Note: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher at any time, for any reason or for no reason at all. This greeting is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. This greeting implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for the wishee her/himself or others, or responsibility for the consequences which may arise from the implementation or non-implementation of same. This greeting is void where prohibited by law.

ok, i copped that christmas wish off of another writer's board...

modesty prevents me from taking credit for someone else's writing ability.

but merry merry, everybody!

just wanted to publicly give myself a pat on the back and a "job well done"...

last night i completed the first draft of my third screenplay, which has been giving me fits and mental/writers block and all kinds of trouble for the better part of this whole year...

but finally, thanks to perseverance and vicki king's "how to write a screenplay in 21 days" advice, i actually finished the sucker!

of course, it's a first draft, and has a lot of problems for me to work out, but i must say i'm happy with it, and actually got quite excited as i finished the last 30 pages or so.

so, as usual, the way to be a writer is to write! now, for the next part, the way to be a good writer is to edit!

happy holidays everybody, and here's wishing us all a peaceful and prosperous 2004!

my writing does.

i truly thought she gave an amazing class. i took her 2nd draft class, having written a first draft in writer's bootcamp intro class. i can't tell you what a great difference in attitude and enthusiasm there was between pilar and writer's bootcamp.

first of all, she keeps her class size small, so she can give tons of individual attention to everyone. also, i just love her enthusiasm, it's so infectious. she's got a great eye and a wonderful ability to express and communicate her ideas to the class.

another great thing about her is that she's very positive about everyone's work, even people who i personally thought should never quit their day job. but she's not just a glad-hander, she'll be very happy to tell you what's wrong with what you are doing and give concrete suggestions as to how to fix things.

she also is stupendous at being able to see what you are trying to do, and give you ideas about how to get to where you want to go. in other words, she won't look at your work and say, "i think it should be a western instead of a mystery," or "the main character should be japanese instead of an insurance salesman" or stuff like that.

i also have used her as a consultant on two of my scripts, and i swear that her work on "death takes a vacation" helped me make that script into the contest winner it is today (and, i have optioned it as well!)

she's really a great teacher, and she's been a development person for dreamworks among other prodco's. so she knows what she's talking about. i can't recommend her highly enough.

if you do take her class, please tell her that i help recommend her to you. i don't get anything except brownie points, but i like her to know how much she's helped me, and recommending her class to other writers is the best way.

i like the second one "when evan meets beth, everything seems right except her boyfriend, his girlfriend, etc etc etc."

marcel, this makes you a professional screenwriter!

congrats! i remember the first paycheck i got for my stand up comedy a hundred years ago, and realizing how that check made the big difference between amateur and professional, because, after all, that is the definition for the olympics, and if it's good enough for the olympics, it's good enough for us!

pilar has a website with all her info at http://www.onthepage.tv.

please, if you wind up taking her class, and you could do much worse things with your money than taking pilar's class, do me the favor of telling her that gil christner recommended her to you!!

kim,

pilar also travels the country quite a bit as a guest lecturer.

it couldn't hurt to email her (via her website) and ask when/if she's going to be in your neck of the woods.

i think i've heard of barb elsewhere.

now that i see her price, i may use her myself.

i think i've heard of barb elsewhere.

now that i see her price, i may use her myself.

thanks, lisa. i couldn't have done it without her.

you'll love her approach, i am sure.

vicki king's "how to write a screenplay in 21 days."

follow her advice: write everyday, but don't beat yourself up over it.

wow, good luck allan! i'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

yes, i've done it! inktip encouages you to do it, and i've also included good coverage i've gotten from people in the industry.

i don't think pointing out your script is a winner would be off putting at all!

you can go to both the samuel french bookstore (one in hollywood, one in studio city by cbs radford) or the writers store in westwood, and find numerous books listing agencies.

some of those books will tell you who's open to queries, some will not.

my advice? it never hurts to make a phone call. a quote (and i am sorry, i can't attribute it properly, my alzheimers is kicking in) i read in k callan's book "i finished the script now what do i do?" said something along the lines of:

if you're afraid of making a phone call, get out of the (screenwriting) business.

i made numerous cold calls to agencies. most of them rejected me outright.

some however, were open to queries.

out of that small number of queries, i actually got a request for my script from don buchwald agency, a very high powered place.

didn't sign with them, but they liked my work and are open to reading other scripts i write in the future.

and this came out of just buying one of those books i mentioned above, and making cold calls.

good luck!

pardon, i misread and misspoke (mistyped?).

under no circumstances should you include contest wins in a log line.

i did mean the "bio," or rather, what i did, was include a paragraph at the end of the synopsis on inktip.

sorry if i misinformed.

two words:

hitch cock.

i like the way allan suggested it.

it's not really part of the log line, just the paragraph afterwards.

it especially helps if your logline is short.

good luck, and great news about your contest wins!

dave trottier, in teh screenwriter's bible, concurs, on page 140.

BOB (on TV) Look! Up in the sky!

i'm really upset with eastwood for that movie. it's best on one of the best mystery novels by one of the best mystery writers working today (michael connolly) and eastwood (or his screenwriter) totally rewrote the bad guy.

in the original, the bad guy turned out to be the "good samaritan" who tried to help the bleeding victim shot at the convenience store.

jeff daniel's character orginally was just a goofball neighbor who helped out at important junctures.

the movie further eroded my opinion of eastwood as a director (which was sky high after his western, can't think of the name off the top of my bald head, morgan freeman gene hackman, that one).

sorry, just venting

anyone got an address for live planet?

sorry, i forgot it's impossible to format screen play dialogue in this message board, irony of ironies.

i was trying to point out that the works in parantheses "(ON TV)" are to the right of the character's name "BOB" and not underneath it, between the name and the dialogue, where character directions usually go.

hi guys, here's my conundrum:

i'm posting my new script, a comic murder mystery, on inktip.com.

when i sat down to write the synopsis, i found that a beat by beat explanation of it became incredibly complicated, because of various plot twists and characters.

i wound up putting these paragraphs, which i had written for my own professional website:

"Jenny Swerdlow is a young intern at a San Francisco detective agency, who wants more than anything to get into the "action" of detective work. So she's a little put off when her boss assigns her to be a "Restaurant Detective," which is nothing more than having dinner at various bistros and eateries to evaluate the food and service quality.

"But she gets way more than she wishes for when a co-worker of David O'Malley, her boyfriend, dies mysteriously during a luncheon at the exclusive restaurant belonging to Jenny's sister and brother-in-law.

"Determined to get to the bottom of what turns out to be a murder, Jenny must go up against gangsters, hoodlums, corrupt city officials, and worst of all, David's slimy boss to solve the mystery. Fine food, exotic San Francisco locales and a goofy bunch of characters , with a climax hanging off of Coit Tower high on Telegraph Hill, make Jenny's adventure exciting, funny, and even worse, deadly."

i know it's technically not a synopsis. does anyone have an opinion as to the question: will it do?

do you think i have to lay down a point by point synopsis?

thanks in advance for your input.

thanks to everybody, all your suggestions are incredible!

what a great and helpful group!

i especially like "an ending bigger than coit tower!"

fyi: the homeless do not play in my script, otherwise yes, i'd put it in.

one other point: the reason i mentioned the brother in law is that he plays a key part in that david's efforts to try to sell him a new location for his restaurant is one of the maguffin's in the plot.

but, as i don't express that particular plot line in my synopsis, i can see that the brother in law is not actually necessary.

thanks again everybody!

wow! what did writers do before the internet?

(answer: usually ether and absynthe).

i attended a seminar/panel at writers boot camp last week, of four producers one night and four working writers the next night.

all 8 people agreed, when it comes to getting work, the writer him/herself has to "close the deal" with his/her personality. and that means being in the room with the producers.

very very very very rarely do spec scripts get made. at least in terms of percentage of movies made. the vast majority are assignments.

sure, there are success stories of spec scripts getting made (hopefully i'll be able to tell you one such story soon).

but if you want to be a working writer, as opposed to a guy or gal who once sold a script, you have to be available to get into the room on the lot and sell yourself.

the producers likened it to finding a roommate. they said a producer is asking themselves "do i want to work with this person for the next 2 or 3 years?"

you can't convince them by phone.

christina, as for you, since you live in sf, you are only an hours plane ride away. you have not that much to worry about.

i live in los angeles, but i am also an actor. i wouldn't live anywhere else.

i think you have to be a huge success to live elsewhere and telecommute.

good idea, rock!

christina, if you don't want to move, you may want to consider rock's idea!

"I've never been a victim of crime and don't know anyone who personally has been mugged or robbed. People who think there's a lot of crime live in big cities, where there is a lot of crime."



d jay,

with all due respect, and i don't mean to sound snarky (and i will be really happy if your answer is "yes") can i ask:

have you ever sold a screenplay or known anyone personally who has sold a screenplay?

my point is, my cousin's husband was a minister in a small church in a teeny tiny town outside of stockton, cal (and stockton is about the size of spokane, if even).

he was killed for the $24 in the collection plate by some robbers.

crime is not the reason not to move to los angeles. i have never been a victim of crime of any kind in los angeles, and i don't know anyone personally who has. i've lived here for 20 years.

have i sold a screenplay? not yet. stay tuned, i've got one optioned with lots of good buzz floating around.

do i know anyone personally who has? you bet. i also know many staff writers on tv shows.

moving here or not involves lots of personal choices...fear of crime should be way down on the list.

d jay,

good, optimism is what will sell your script sooner or later! keep it up!

and ed asner is as good as reason as any not to move anywhere!

when i first started out, i made the faux pas of putting my wga# on the cover page of my scripts, until it was pointed out that that was a particularly amateur thing to do.

so, no, don't put it on the cover page unless the contest specifically asks you to.

learn from my mistakes!

"The Oscar is, or should be reserved for outstanding performances, and Charlize's performance isn't much above adequate. In my opinion, but everyone is so blown away by her physical transformation, that no one is actually paying attention to her acting. "

actually, david, with all due respect, this last sunday on "at the movies with ebert and roeper," roger ebert specifically stated that he doesn't read reviews or trailers or internet stories before going to a film so he can see it with unbiased eyes.

he said that he had no idea it was charlize theron. and he said her performance was excellent. he said he was amazed to find out it was her.

i haven't seen the flick myself, i have no opinion.

congrats, richard!

jerry and frank are 1000% correct about including the ending in your synopsis.

chris lockhart, head of story development for icm, has said in many a lecture i've attended, you must include the ending, for two reasons.

first, whomever is reading the thing wants to know if you are good enough a writer to resolve your conflicts you set up.

secondly, to leave them hanging is a sign of an amateur.

all other professionals in the industry i've talked with concur.

if you don't tell them the ending in your synopsis (not talking about pitch or log line, those are different), you are showing how out of the loop you are professionally.

it's a bit like when i first started sending out my scripts, i made sure i included the writers guild registration number on the face sheet, which, as it turns out, is a sure sign of an amateur.

as to the word denoument, i have no opinion one way or the other whether to use the word. just be sure to include the actual ending in the synopsis.

hi guys,

i need some help on a script. i'd like the suggestions of some really famous scenes from the movies of the past 10 years.

you know, seminal scenes, like halley joel osmet telling bruce willis, "i see dead people" or rose, the old lady, dropping the necklace into the ocean in "titanic."

just brief moments of cinema that are forever indelibly etched in our minds.

a modern day "rosebud" from "citizen kane."

i've racked my brain and can only come up with a few. any ideas?

thanks in advance.

as always, i highly recommend pilar alessandra of on the page. find her info at www.onthepage.tv.

she's reasonable and enthusiastic and incredibly knowledgable and insightful.

she was a former senior story analyst for dreamworks and a couple other places.

i'm seeing her this thursday for a consult on my latest script.

tell her gil sent you!

jerry hatchett is right.

the goal of the writer is not to get people to call them back.

the goal of the writer is to write.

you guys are focusing too much on outside confirmation for your results.

focus instead on becoming the very best writer you can.

then they'll start returning your phone calls, i guarantee you.

a lot of these are great, but a lot of them are older than i am.

and that's my problem. i can think of a billion great moments from films before 1982...

but the great filmatic moments of the last 20 years i can count on one hand (and three of them are from jurassic park!)

my wife and i just rented it and saw it this weekend.

we were bored senseless.

i went into the other room and surfed the net while she was watching it, came back and saw the ending, and didn't feel like i missed a thing.

thanks, jerry. i am indeed asking for specific recognizable scenes for a very specific comedic purpose.

i appreciate everyone's suggestions, thanks everybody for your help!!

michele,

my deepest sympathies for your loss.

i have lost both my parents, too. there's not a day that goes by that i don't miss them both.

you'll feel better after some time goes by. be happy for the time you had with your dad.

HEY HEY HEY HEY

this is my thread asking my question about my problem for my script that my producers have asked me to work on.

TAKE YOUR WEIRD ASS CRAP SOMEWHERE ELSE FOLKS!

go start your own I HATE SO AND SO thread and snipe at each other there.

i wanted help with a real problem for a real screenplay that has really been optioned and is in real pre-production.

i don't need everyone insulting each other here.

if you can't be adults please don't clog up my thread. you know who you are.

that being said, i thank all of you others who actually made suggestions.

i am still open to suggestions. please, if you have real ideas, don't hesitate to put them here.

you know where you can put anything else.

but let me re-iterate the parameters i am looking for:

the film must be from THE LAST TEN YEARS. i already have a number of moments from films before that. anything before the early 90's does me no good.

and, though many of these that have been suggested are great moments, they have to be so recognizable as to not have any ambiguity about what they are and where they are from.

for instance, somebody mentioned finding the head in the box in se7en. a gripping scene, and a good image. but if i have a character (in my film) find a head in a box, there's nothing to say "se7en."

conversely, somebody mentioned the rose petals falling up on the blonde girl on the ceiling in "american beauty." now, if i somehow get that image into my film, there's no question where that image comes from.

but keep them all coming, i have already made a note of a couple of your suggestions that have helped me.

and the rest of you, please, let's conduct ourselves like adults here. immature name calling and insults do not do anybody any good here.

you may not know it, but high level producers view this board (at least they used to...who knows these days?) so let's at least act like we are professionals, whether or not we are.

and i'm michele hackman.

ok, anything from the early 90's is good, too.

thanks for your help and kind words, everybody.

no, nancy.

what you said was 100% right on the money.

this board has gotten quite inbred and very snippy, and there has been too little of idea exchange about our craft and too much insulting and back biting going on.

i am quite disturbed by the nastiness that appeared on my thread where i asked for some help.

i really wonder how people who have attitudes like those shown on this board hope to be ever considered professional.

offhand, eric, without discussing any content, here's a note i have been given on my own writing of screenplays:

avoid the use of passive voice ("bob is standing in his living room. chuck is drinking some coffee") and use the active voice.

bob stands in the living room. chuck drinks coffee.

one more hint, which, again was given to me about my own script:

long one-sided phone calls are a real bitch. try to have your character actually doing something while talking (making a sandwich, cleaning up the room, etc.)

other than that, i'll admit, i only read the first couple of pages. the premise (a guy who is hooked on christmas) seems pretty interesting.

congrats, jerry!

yes, i have done it.

i recommend it.

be prepared for a tiny percentage of success.

but as they say, it only takes one "yes."

i got my script into the hands of a highly respected big time agency just from cold calling. they liked it, wanted to see another script.

long story short they passed on signing me but said they'd be happy to read my next script.

go for it.

really, i agree with paula.

here's what i wrote in one screenplay:

"an eternity passes. then:"

and etc.

if we're writers, let's try to come up with some clever ways of saying "beat. beat. beat."

i bought some motivational tapes once. i was supposed to listen to them for an hour every day, but i just didn't feel like it.

benjamin, i don't think you even need the "beat beat beats" in your writing.

you must trust that once your screenplay gets to the point of production, you have an intuitive director and some actors who are by definition intuitive that can fully translate your words to action.

any actor or director worth their salt will know that at a point such as you have written, where a guy puts a gun to his head, there will be pauses pregnant enough to deliver triplets.

you have written a very heavy moment, and good actors and directors will take the time necessary to milk the suspense and emotion from what you have created.

or if they make a choice to do it in a quick fashion, it will be based on a choice of style, motivated and justified by real human reasons set up earlier, that will be fitting with the rest of the film.

also, by that point, it's out of your hands.

you've got to trust your ability to write moments that other people can interpret correctly. and believe me, what you have written, sans "beats" is a powerful moment that anybody will be able to convey well.

if, and i stress if, there is a real reason why you need to have a long pause between the gun to the head and the eyes closing, (longer than any worthy actor or director would put there to establish the human motivation), then i like something like jerry advises.

but i am beginning to think you are overwriting, not trusting all your other images to be able to convey the drama of your situation, which, believe me, is very dramatic and would have me on the edge of my seat.

trust that you are writing well and powerfully. and trust that the other people involved, the readers, the actors, the directors, and the audience, will be able to interpret your words correctly.

because bob with a gun to his head and his eyes closed is a pretty powerful image, and i for one would assume everyone involved would take their time to convey it correctly.

yeah, i heard that same thing from a consultant (probably the same one).

i can't believe it. it would take 15 or more words to express what the letters "p o v" do.

imho, it's much like an actor's headshot...every few years a "new" look comes into play...for a while, it was dirty borders, then it was the letter box view, then it was a big picture with just your head down in the corner.

all designed just to make people go out and get new photos (actually designed to make yours stand out...but if everyone starts doing it, yours no longer stand out).

if readers are too lazy or "hip" or unimaginative to be able to understand what "pov" means, then screw 'em!

at least, that's my pov.

d jay

i've had no experience with this class, so take my opinion with a pound of salt.

are the classes held on line? i don't know how much that would be worth, but i wouldn't think very much.

and, if you just want a chance to pitch to people, there are plenty of pay to pitch places around. (sorry, can't think of specifics, maybe someone else on the board can. eva peel? is that one?)

so basically, i have nothing to say.

anybody see this yet? anybody want to discuss it?

"(which I bought at "The Writer's Store", and they sold FD5 to me as an "update" since I bought Scriptware from them years earlier.)"

kinda off topic, but i love the folks at the writers store. they are not only helpful, but always genuinely interested in the progress of my career whenever i go in.

peter,

off topic, but concerning a theme from another thread:

as a "pesky reader," what's your opinion of the use of "p.o.v."??

sue,

i totally agree with you. i don't know exactly what post you are referring to, but it is a bit condescending to tell someone who asks a question to go to another source for the answer.

one of the reasons (supposedly) for online forums like this one is to share information.

if we can't help each other, there's no point in being on these forums.

the only time i recommend books is if i answer the question with a quote or note from the specific book, and then i'll give the answer, and then the page of the book the answer is found on (usually trottier's screenwriter's bible, the best i've found so far).

my two cents to rich and paula:

you both have valid reasons for doing what you do, and as long as you are consistant in how you do it, that's what counts.

because as we all agree, if the story is fantastic, it will move up the food chain.

personally, i don't use a (cont.). one other rule i try to adhere to (actually more of a trick than a rule) is to give my characters different sounding names, beginning with different letters, so it's really easy to differentiate among them.

but to each their own!

my wife and i both agree about elijah woods...we felt like saying "hey, what's frodo doing there?"

i was amused, and i think kaufman avoided his usual third act melt down. still, i think perhaps my admiration for it came more from gondry than kaufman.

i loved the fact that the film looked more like an indy or documentary than a big budget hollywood extraveganza.

nice kaufman touch: the scientists/technicians were low budget, kind of sleazy, not hi tech.

i loved the fact that winslet and carey each gave a performance you would expect from the other...carey the brooding introvert, winslet the gregarious nut.

however, and i know i'm kind of a naysayer, i thought the whole guts of the gimmick was already done in the third act of "being john malkovitch" when keener was chasing cusak (or visa versa) thru malkovitch's mind. a little quibble, i guess.

anyone else?

oh, one more thing...

i knew jim carrey was a good actor, who could do the internal, brooding stuff.

anyone who ever saw "doing time on maple drive," a made for tv movie, saw him do a wonderful job in a character very similar to this one.

no, i have not, but that's great news! good for you!

congrats, and good luck!

i might suggest what i'd suggest for any interview: just be yourself, let your enthusiasm for the subject matter (screenwriting) show thru, don't over talk, dress nice, ask him/her about him/herself, be positive about yourself and accomplishments!

break a leg!!

gotta agree with john...

and this is not directed solely at wayne, but everyone here.

many professionals do lurk on this board.

conduct yourselves here as if you were in public, because, in essence, you are.

if you back bite and snipe and insult, you will look like some sort of moron that nobody will ever want to work with.

folks, try to be adults. if somebody says something nasty to you, just ignore it, and go to another thread. gosh, it's easier to ignore dickweeds on a cyberspace bulletin board than it is in real life. just turn off the computer and go for a walk.

i would suggest that it's a combination of the visual and the emotional combining to progress the story.

an example, one of my favorites:

the first time sam neil and laura dern stop the jeeps and look out over the grassy plains to see the actual dinosaurs roaming in 'jurassic park.'

very visual, and wow, what a dynamite emotional wallop that packs! and without it, without the wonder we see on their faces, and the wonder we ourselves feel looking at the screen, would the story be the same?

other cinematic scenes...the opening of 'citizen kane,' the massacre on the steps in 'untouchables,' jon voight standing on the engine with his arms outstretched barreling forward in 'runaway train,' burt lancaster smooching on the beach with deborah kerr as the waves wash over them in 'from here to eternity,' the spaceship answering the organ's notes in 'close encounters.'

just my opinion, but i would say visual has a big big part of making a scene 'cinematic.'

what wayne said...

i know that the first page of "adaptation" says something along the lines of:

black screen. we hear charlie's voice over as opening credits run...

and this of course was nick cage running off at the mouth with all the insecurities of being a writer, as the opening credits ran underneath.

but like wayne said, unless you have a fantastic new idea for main title credits, or a scene germane to the plot over which you can run your credits (ie, sean connery breaking into an apartment and stealing a valuable painting, a la that stinker he did with catherine zeta jones, i forget the title it was such a bad movie), then just leave it to the director.

now people are going to accuse me and ellum of being the same person!!!

lol!!

not me, for entirely childish reasons.

my script i entered last year did not make it past the first cut in nicholl. however it did make it past the first cut in 8 out of 11 of the contests i entered it in, including being a top 50 finalist in chesterfield, as well as coming in third in another, honorable mention in another, top 20 finalist in another, finalist in another, and semi finalists in two others.

so i just wrote it off to "the nicholl gang doesn't click with my work" and move on to the others.

i will be entering chesterfield this year, as they enjoyed my last script so much they have given me a free entry (no fee) for this year's contest.

however, don't let my sour grapes spoil anybody else's experience. some contests just enjoy certain types of writing more than others, so if you enter, good luck to you!

break a pen!

anyone?

just finished a script which my wife thinks she'd be perfect for.

thanks in advance.

hi kim,

maybe you should try just writing jokes for a while.

jokes without the context of your sitcom.

start writing jokes about your life, going to the market, dating, tv shows, driving, etc etc.

jokes about topical events.

what i'm saying is, maybe you just don't know how to write a tight, well constructed joke.

and the only way to do that is keep trying.

also i agree, go to comedy clubs, and listen. you'll soon see what makes a good joke over a bad.

but above all, if you like writing sit coms, don't give up! the first time you always suck!

in fact, the first 100 times you always suck!

keep writing!

pilar alessandra, whom i have taken some classes from and whom i highly recommend as a teacher, is having a free workshop on writing dialogue at the writers store on april 17, next saturday. the details:

Writing Powerful Dialogue is the topic of the Saturday morning Writers Store Presents event in our Los Angeles store on April 17, 2004, 10:30 am - 12:00 noon.

Script Consultant/Story Analyst and Leader of the On the Page seminars, PILAR ALESSANDRA will uncover the mysteries of writing Dynamic Dialogue by sharing her techniques for: making the most of Agenda & Manipulation, Showing the Subtext of characters' dialogue, Writing Just the Perfect Line to clinch the scene, and Finding your Character's Voice.

This is part of an ongoing series of Industry seminars presented by the Writers Store, located at 2040 Westwood Blvd. in Los Angeles. Although admission is free, advance reservations are required. To reserve your seat call Chuck Staley at 310-441-5151 Ext. 15 or email chuck@writersstore.com.

i really can't say enough good things about this woman. and the price is right!

haven't seen ladykillers yet, we're going to see it this weekend. but i agree, intolerable cruelty was not great. the cohens for me are pretty inconsistent for my viewing pleasure...some great films (fargo, the big lebowski, raising arizona) vs. some badly assembled misfires (the hudsucker proxy, barton fink, intolerable cruelty). so i look towards ladykillers with mixed emotions.

i liked kill bill vol. 2 but i liked vol. 1 better (more fighting). but still worthwhile, especially if you saw the first film. my wife liked the second film better.

any comic book movie fans out there, hellboy is great, 5 stars from me.

thinking back, if you eliminate the lord of the rings film return of the king, the last time i thought a flick was great was school of rock.

though we watched american splendor on dvd last night and it was better than i thought it would be.

and yet, steven, i am not going to see the film because i've heard it's sadisticly (or should i say unrelentingly) violent.

i'm not a religious man, but i do believe in god; even more to the point, i believe in great costume dramas. i always watch the ten commandments, and am a fan of the last temptation.

and i wanted to go see the passion, till i heard that it was so violent. even in context, there's only so much flogging my stomach can take.

i have a hw laserjet 4l, and have had it for over 10 years.

i once had to have it repaired about a year ago, for a little over $100, but it's the best printer i've ever had.

i wish that all my other machines worked as good as my printer.

god rest your soul, ron.

my sympathies to his family.

good job, steve! congrats!

shell, you are a bad girl. =)

i was told that nobody needs to put "fade in" at the beginning of a script, because, after all, it goes without saying.

i personally have used fade out and fade in in the middle of my script, and i have right justified both.

nobody's ever rejected my scripts because of formatting.

when in doubt, use trottier's "the screen writers bible."

hey, is the creative screenwriting expo 3 screenplay competition coming up any time soon?

yeah, shell.

i very deliberately specified a fade out/fade in about halfway thru my story, right after the two protagonists kissed for the first time, then opened up on the next day as they sat in a cafe waiting for breakfast, the glow of a night of hot sex radiating off of them.

my fade out/fade in was the equivalent of panning over to the fireplace, i guess.

anyway, the consultant i was using asked if i meant to have fade out/fade in there, and when i said yes, she agreed.

but i would personally say use them sparingly in a script, after all, it is one of those things that the director/editor will be making the decision on (much like camera angles and such).

don't be too much of a smarty pants about it.

but i reiterate, imho, fade in at the beginning and fade out at the end of your script is already implied, and you don't really need to use it.

leastways, nobody's complained about my lack of usage.

again, may i put in a plug for dave trottier's screenwriter's bible?

it's the best "format how to" book out there.

yeah, that's what mine is like.

except my characters have sex.

hey guys,

if you look in the may-june issue of scri(i)pt magazine on page 29, there is an ad for my screen writing teacher pilar alessandra of "on the page."

in it you'll kindly notice a quote from me, as well as a mention of my script "death takes a vacation."

nothing like free publicity!

i entered last year, and my script made it to the quarter finals, which was a disappointment, because the same script made it to the finals in many other contests, and was honorable mention in two and third place winner in another.

there was like (no exaggeration) 60 or more quarter finalists, so i sure didn't feel special.

but i must say, they certainly provided what they offered, ie, they did have a contest, someone did win, and my name and script name is posted on their website as a quarterfinalist.

i'm not entering again, and i am entering other contests again.

but all in all, i do believe they are on the up and up, just nothing to write home about.

z. core, you beat me to the punch!!

yes, elizabeth, follow the others' directions.

i wrote a script in msword, then converted it easily to final draft like they said.

1. while in ms word, save your script as an ".rtf" (rich text format) document on your computer.

2. while in final draft, open the rich text format document.

3. final draft will ask you "open as script or text?" and you will click "script."

4. there will be some minor glitches you will have to go through and clean up, but it is pretty simple.

good luck, and please, write a longer title next time!

edmund,

i am sure gary didn't mean anything nasty or negative by his remark, he was only making a joke.

after all, you wrote on a screen writer's forum "if there are any writers out there..."

that's like coming to america and saying "are there any americans in this country?"

so we chuckled at the irony of your statement, that's all.

i'm sure many writers will be happy to contact you for your project, and remember, most people on this forum are very nice and happy go lucky people.

good luck with your short!

this is just me. only what i'd do. i'm not recommending it. it's just what my gut would be telling me to do.

which is, tell him, thanks, but no thanks, and move on to somebody that wants to read your script and work with you for no money up front.

i didn't read the review, but i saw (and loved) troy.

it seems to me a movie based on an epic poem more than on history books.

i think it was great, and do agree that peter o'toole and eric bana were fantastic (brad pitt did seem to be out of his element, but as my wife said, he was pretty damn hunky in his gladiator outfit).

all in all a good flick.

but then again, i loved (as did my wife) van helsing.

also good: the alamo and hell boy.

i'd agree, we all have our own methods.

i would say, though, that forcing one's self to write on schedule is a great way to create discipline.

i used to write comedy for radio, ie, for a paycheck, and you can bet i didn't write "just when i felt like it."

it's good to find out organically when you feel best writing (morning, late at night, after eating, etc etc) and then make yourself write every day at that time.

conversely, one of the best bits of advice i ever read in vicki king's how to write a script in 21 days, is this:

don't set a goal of anything more than one page that you have to write every day.

if you attain that one page goal, then you will feel satisfied that you made your goal.

most writers, however, hitting that one page, will feel the momentum to go on and write many more pages that day.

that's just bonus!

this advice worked for me, on my last script, where i felt big time writers block. by forcing myself to write every day, a minimum of one page, i eventually finished my script, and now i'm very proud of having worked through writers block.

also, if you don't like outlines, no big deal. if you do like outlines, good for you.

whatever works for you.

but i agree with jerry, read (and watch) and write are the best bits of advice to become a better writer.

another thing i thought of earlier today:

another good reason to learn the discipline of writing every day, is that you'll be trim and toned and ready for a real assignment.

case in point: as i said, i wrote radio comedy for a living in the last millennium, so i had learned how to write everyday (otherwise, no paycheck!)

i continued that habit into my screen writing.

(caveat: writing everyday does not mean forcing yourself to write on your current screenplay every day. write a journal, a poem, a short story, just your thoughts of the day. but write something!)

long story short (or is it too late for that?) when i optioned my script, a few months into the option my producers said, "we love the script, but everyone we show it to has two problems with it. we'd like you to do a quick 'abrasion' on it."

meaning, not a total rewrite, but a polish to make the script more salable based on what feedback they were getting.

i was able to deliver them exactly the kind of stuff they wanted over the weekend, because i was used to sitting down and writing every day.

they were really impressed! now they are considering me for other projects, and they know when they sell my script i'll be easy to work with and able to produce what's necessary at a moment's notice.

ok, enough of me. just read. just write.

gotta disagree about diana degarmo's lack of "paying dues."

many great artists never had to "pay dues."

offhand, i am really angry at kevin kline, because he never had a day job. he got acting jobs right out of college.

as did that blonde actress who played the d.a. on law & order suv.

lord byron? any number of upper class artists subsidized by royalty throughout history?

paying dues is romantic, and certainly seasons your view point in your art, but i don't think it's cause&effect related to your talents or abilities.

any, i voted for diana. though fantasia was great. they both should have nice careers.

you can only enter if you're a subscriber of the "creative screenwriter daily" newsletter, but then the contest is free.

but it's pretty genre-specific, ie, a john carpenter movie.

i have a comedy/slasher script i sent in.

anyone interested, here's where to sign up for the newsletter:

http://www.creativescreenwriting.com/

deadline is june 1.

thanks, terri,

but as usual, cyberspace didn't accurately portray my feelings. i said "angry" with tongue in cheek.

more power to anyone's success. it only means it's possible for the rest of us.

you'd think for a writer i'd know how to convey that with words on a page (screen?)

An agent who hip-pockets me for a teen slasher/murder mystery script of mine has got the Head of Development of John Carpenter to agree to read my script and is going to send it to him.

So I'm not entering the contest, though I had contemplated of entering.

sun,

you don't need to enter the contest! hope he buys your script!

david,

your friend got screwed and that's definately not what an option is.

i don't know the specifics about what your friend signed (could it have been something other than an option?) so i can't comment.

however, z. core is right. the option simply gives the optioner the exclusive right to shop it around. anytime it gets re-written or made into a movie, the writer gets to negotiate for money for those privilges.

your friend might have an actionable cause, depending on the document he signed.

richard,

i entered on the 20th of may, and haven't received my sasp either.

mannequin was actually a very good film.

it's no citizen kane, but for what it was (a "splash" knock-off) it was light, humorous, romantic and full of great actors doing their very funny stuff (gw bailey, meshach taylor, andrew mccarthy, james spader, estelle getty, and a pre-sex in the city kim catrall being very sexy and delicious).

besides, anyone who actually gets a movie made, let alone 3 movies made, is probably somebody to listen to.

i once read somewhere else on the internet about screenwriting:

all it takes is one "yes."

keep on truckin', my man!

jen,

i liked mannequin even before i started writing screenplays.

and, not to start a fight, but i've seen it, so i guess i'm probably in a better position to judge it.

as for your assertion that typos won't matter if your script is good, i would contend that your script probably isn't good if you can't attend to details like using a spelling program.

most readers i talk to agree that more than a couple of typos in a script really take them out of the story, and thus are bad for your presentation.

but, again, i'm not trying to start a flame war here. you are quite welcome to your opinions, about chesterfield, about mannequin, about typos, about me.

here's some other reviews:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Fahrenheit911-1133649/

as of this writing, 79% of the reviewers who have seen this film have given it a positive review.

ps

i don't get why we need to go to a web site about cows needing support?

"moo relies.com" ???

Well...I might be wrong, but my thoughts about us humans is that we've always been a bunch of morons.

no, you're not wrong.

there's only so many ideas to go around, and in hollywood, even fewer than that.

well, kids, i will not bore you all by (illegally...see fair use doctrine) posting reviews in their entirety.

because, after all, i did admit to the fact that less than 100% of the reviews did not like f911, ergo, it's easy to find ones that do not (just click on the "rotten" icon on rotten tomatoes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/Fahrenheit911-1133649/...of course, there's only 13 bad reviews out of 65, you'll have to work for it) and you can find someone who doesn't like moore's film.

but, the people that do like his film (and more to the point, like the ability to express the contrary opinion in america freely) say this, among other things:

"to dismiss fahrenheit 9/11 as "anti-american propaganda" is doing the movie, the issues, the troops, and the country a grave disservice." jurgen fauth, about.com

"the film doesn't go for satirical humor the way moore's roger & me and bowling for columbine did. moore's narration is still often sarcastic, but frequently he lets his footage speak for itself." roger ebert, chicago sun times

"a passionate, clearly articulated, if sloppily structured indictment of the president, his ties to the bin laden family, his relentless push for war in iraq and, as portrayed by moore, an ineptitude bordering on the criminal." john anderson, newsday

"a brisk and entertaining indictment of the bush administration’s middle east policies before and after september 11, 2001." mary corliss, time magazine

"the statistics, the footage, the accumulation of facts are staggering -- or, at the very least, fascinating." elenor gillespie, atlanta journal constitution

"should be seen because it takes off the gloves and wades into the fray, because it synthesizes the anti-bush argument like no other work before it, and because it forces you to decide for yourself exactly where passion starts to warp point of view." ty burr, boston globe

"what's remarkable here isn't moore's political animosity or ticklish wit. it's the well-argued, heartfelt power of his persuasion." desson thompson, washington post

it is worth seeing, debating and thinking about, regardless of your political allegiances." a.o. scott, ny times

and, as to christopher hitchens comparing moore's film to propaganda "in the mold of nazi germany" (i think you are referring to leni riefenstahl), i'm not sure that analogy holds up, as the nazi's were the party in power, systematically denying opposing view points the ability to be expressed, when not out and out eradicating dissent with physical punishment.

as moore is not in power, and he is not the one trying to silence dissent (not that i'm mentioning any president by name here) his film is no more "propaganda" than any fox news report.

nobody has to see the film. but nobody really has a right to try to stop others from seeing it

(caveat: i'm certainly not accusing anyone here on this board of that. but there are many organizations that are attempting as much, and for that, i grieve for our nation).

by the way...f911 breaks box office records in first day showing in nycity:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=5498824