Message Board

Of the eleven contests I've entered Telluride was the most disrespectful to the writer.(Actually, Square Magazine is right up there.) I paid the extra fee for the late deadline and twice received e-mails from this guy about all the unexpected scripts sent in by all of the "proscrastinating" writers. Hey, the late deadlines I'm right on time! (We're never really "finished" with these damn scripts, are we?) He said our penalty was that we would get one less read--hence less chance--in the contest. D. Jay Williams

Is anybody familiar with Larry Sugar and his new contest CreativeCrib? He says that he is going to option the top 15 scripts and then work with the writers for a year. Will he be able to do this if there is a strike? And do you know if he is still waiving the fee for finalists of other contests? (His web site would suggest not) Thanks--Jay

Has anybody who was promised notes from this cancelled contest received theirs yet? They haven't responded to my last inquiry of 30 days ago--(this does not bode well!)

Yeah, I had a problem with their CreativeCrib contest too. They offered to waive the contest fees for winners and finalists of other contests but reneged on it after I went to the time and expense of sending them my script. There's a lot of scamming going on there--gotta be careful!

I can only find their PO Box now. Yeah, they cancelled their contest after the quarterfinals saying that the submissions were of such poor quality they couldn't continue. It was expensive because they had required several copies of scripts from each writer up to that point. But they promised script analysis for each who had made their last cut. I never got mine--has anyone else recieved theirs yet?

Wow! I just don't get it then. I sent them a script that had won a contest and I got it in before their deadline but they e-mailed me that they wanted their 60 bucks--said the free offer had ended two months before. Well, so be it. Wish you all well on yours though.

Thanks Paula. Very good point.

The e-mail I got from Telluride last year stated I would receive only one read instead of two because my script was sent in on the last week. If I misread that message then I deeply appologize (although I don't think I did.) Regardless, you're not late if you're on time. The director of the excellent Nicholl contest once stated on this site that there could even be a strategic benefit in getting a script in one week before a deadline. I might feel more generous about this if I had made the first cut--but then I didn't--so I don't.

Hey, I'd really appreciate the same. Thanks! djaywilliams2001@yahoo.com

I'm currently waiting on BDR results. (Anybody else waiting on this one?) They were suppose to be out on the 14th of this month and haven't responded to an e-mail I sent them. So few contests meet their own schedules--Write Movie and Texas are some of the wonderful exceptions.

I've also used professional consultants and I think come across some of the very best and some of the very worst. Robert Flaxman , with his "Deep-Feed" analysis is one of the best. He's pricey but he goes over every detail and nuance of your script with lots of great recommendations. He's especially helpful for the neophyte because he corrects formatting errors. And on the other end of the scale I wasted funds with "Smartgirls" ( I wish now that I had taken the money and just thrown it out the back of my car). Some contests offer feedback for all of the contestants and I especially recommend Texas and Scriptville--both multi-pages long and incredibly helpful. Slamdance was also good but very brief. And again on the opposite scale I found Square Magazine's feedback nearly worthless. It arrived months late and was but one paragraph long--and was one someone elses script.

(Maybe I should have Robert Flaxman edit my postings too--sorry for all the typos!) I also agree with Steven that you have to maintain your authorship and vision for your script The professionals can really help, but you will always know your story better than they. Good luck, Jay

Hi Bryan, Robert Flaxman's "Deep-Feedback" analysis involves him studying your script and then spending something like 8 hrs with you on the phone over two consecutive days going over it page by page. I think my cost was in the $800-$900 range but you can get current info at www.deep-feedback.com or reach him at 213-896-1692. If you use his services I'd recommend that, along with taking notes, you also find some way to record the conversations. I had relied on note-taking and sometimes did not clearly write down some of the given advise. And have your script as polished as possible before you send it to him--I sent him such a mess he had to spend much of the time correcting my typos and format errors. For the same money you can also get 3-4 more modest analysis from other respected pros and maybe that would be better because you'd get balancing opinions. But I'm still going to hire Flaxman on my next one, if I have the means.

It may not have been quite that high--but it was a chunk! And I don't know if it was worth it. I think we need to be more circumspect on the money spent on all of this--it's said that the merchants made more money off the California goldminers than the goldminers earned from their ore. And so it is with us. Only the tiniest number of scripts ever sell and I'm reconciled to that. Flaxman did help me tell my story much better though.

P.S.--By the way, I know you're one of the "good" merchants, Todd. I'm going to list my script on StoryXchange as soon as I learn how to write a synopsis!

I was a Realtor and I believed in marketing and I had a famous open house that lasted 8 days and nearly 20,000 people come thru and it didn't sell for another 6 months until the seller substantially reduced the price. Focusing on marketing instead of getting the right price caused the collapse of many of my collegues careers. Marketing is way overrated--at least in real estate.

I didn't place in this recent contest--(what the hell could they have been thinking!-- but they sure left me with warmer feelings than so many other contests have. They actually sent a letter out in advance advising of a three day delay in the judging. I think some contests believe if they come up with their results within the same calander year of their promised date they're on time. Not to mention names but BDR should hire these guys as consultants.

I found the results the day they said we would and so I sent them an E-mail commending them on keeping their schedule. They e-mailed back to say that comments on each script were being sent to contestants this week. Jay

I agree with Dan. The real heavyweights are Nicholl, Austin, Scriptapalooza and maybe still Chesterfield--(Nicholl being the undisputed Champion!) They're also the hardest to gain recognition. Consider smaller contests first, which also offer constructive feedback. Texas and ScriptNetwork are great but their deadlines are past. The best coming up (in my opinion) are Slamdance, which offers notes over the phone, and Scriptville, which provides multi-paged coverage. Goodluck--Jay

This advice at www.geocities.com/empirecontact/read html: "...generic character,e.g.,AGENT, POLICEMAN, capitalze it the first time, then 'initial cap' it the succeeding times, ie., Agent, Policeman. This says,'We've already met this one, and this is the one we've met." The problem I have utilizing this is advise is that some of my recurring unnamed characters are often described differently throughout my script, i.e., "New Guys", "New Troops", "Men", etc. Do you all recommend this technique? If so, can it be used selectively? Thanks for any help Jay --(P.S. This is the now defunct Empire contest site.)

Thanks for the help.

Thanks for the help.

I started my second script 2 days ago. So far I've got "FADE IN" down on paper. This one is going a lot faster than the first.

Well Grover, you've got a real gift! Right now I'm vacillating on whether I start next with "INT." or "EXT." Which is best?

This time I need to get a lot more words in my script. A LOT more. The last one only printed out to 56 pages. So what I did was reduce the margins and repeated pages 22 through 40. I did O.K. in some contests, but on a careful read I was always found out.

Thanks guys for the great advise. I think I'll just jump ahead and begin with my sex scene. I pretty much have that one worked out in my mind. Jay

Regardless of Joanne's well-intentioned advise I'm dropping the sex scene. I'm just no good at it. I can't even write about it. Anyway, why should any of us be forced to bow our heads to the trough of Hollywood commercialism (huh?) just to have our scripts appreciated!? And Mariam may be correct when she said this one may be better as a short--(I'm thinking the shorter the better, right now!) I'm going to move on now to the car chase scene and see if that gets anything going for me. Thanks all.

Curiously, I was able to write a great car chase by taking my previously discarded sex scene and simply changing "vulva" to "sceeching tires". I think I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel! Thanks for all the good advise and encouragement. Jay

I don't mean to interrupt Ashley and Melvins' train of thought, but I really hate foot pursuits that are done at an all-out sprint but cover a great distance. Haven't those directors ever taken gym class--IT CAN'T BE DONE! And in those long chases or fights, the participants are never gasping for air or drenched with sweat--THAT CAN'T BE DONE EITHER! (Oh yeah, and I hate it when the hero kisses or makes love to the heroine and neither has obviously bathed or brushed their teeth in days. Come on! I'd rather do anything else!)

I tied "Volvo"--didn't work. Then "Buick"--nothing!! Regardless, I'm now thinking of dropping the car chase altogether. (my script is on the Peloponnesian War. They didn't even have cars in 390 B.C., for godsake!)

Greg did us a favor by telling us the truth. An Olympic boxing champion (Nicholl Winner) can't step in the ring with the average pro without getting his clock cleaned. he still needs more seasoning. So what? For me I'm going to keep plugging on. For me, I'd just be pissing my spare time away anyway. (aside to webmaster: if 'pissing" is innappropriate, please substitute for "peeing" or any other euphemism you deam best. And please then delete this part of my posting. I don't want to look like a fool here!) P.S.--Please then change Jennifer's posting. She used "pissed'.

I was blown off by Aces (duh!)for my war script "Semper Fi" and then they had the further audacity to send me these notes: *One-demensional characters. *Unlikeable protagonist *No inciting incident. *Unbelievable story. *Plaugerized entire second act from "Look Who's Talking 2" (o.k., that part's true)* No resolution or climax. * many typos and errors. (I'd like to get that guy alone in a room for 10 minutes and I'd have him whistling a different tune!) *needless repetition. *too much narrating, etc., adnaseaum! Are these people IDIOTS or what?

Aw come on--we really all want to know what you think. Nobody will will judge you poorly on this. I promise

I said I lifted the second act from Driving Miss Daisey, not Look Who's Talking 2. And then I get my rejection from Nicholl's. Beal says I was in the "next 50". Thanks. Thanks for NOTHING, Beal! That's like some girl telling you there are 300 other guys she would rather go out with than you. (this has actually happened to me. It was humiliating! And the wait damn near killed me!) No, I'm done with all these contests. There are a few free ones coming up I might do, but I'm not paying anymore money unless I know I'm playing on a level playing field (if you get my drift).

I was accused of stealing vebatim the entire 2nd act from "Look Who's Talking 2". In fact, I had only borrowed heavily from "Driving Miss Daisy". Hey, who are these readers to judge! I bet if I poked around in their business I could find plenty to fault too!

Okay, I don't mean to condemn all readers. I've done well in contests in which the readers don't take too hard a look at my suspect 2nd Act. I'd like to personally thank here the excellent and forgiving readers of the Maui and Blue Cat contests, who are smartly advancing me in their current judging.

P.S.--No, it certainly is not easy lifting scenes about a talking baby and about a gentle wise black chauffeur in the service of a spunky Jewish widow and hope to seamlessly sandwich them in between the 1st and 3rd act of a war script. I fact, Nicholl's would say that it's impossible (LOL). But I desperately needed filler material (see my previous admission under the thread "Back To The Fray"). Regardless, this is the criticism I get for having standards!?

The contests help determine who the best of the amateur screenwriters are--those who show the best promise. But we're not competing against the Tarentinos and Goldmans of Hollywood and those are the ones who write the pictures. I think that should just inspire us the more. And I read that Oliver Stone (granted, an unmitigated ass, but all the same one of the guys we're really competing against) wrote ten scripts before he could even gain an agent. I haven't written my ten yet.

But the web site really exists. I'm thinking Melvin is AK CreativeWorks

Randy, thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered it--found it at both Barnes & Noble and Amazon.com for $16.

This may be a very good value. It's really a mentorship program they're offering in which you pay in increments. Your total investment is maybe $300, if you choose to see it all the way to the end, and that's for a lot of direction and feedback. I may consider doing it. They have an excellently run script contest and they probably know what they're doing (IMO).

Same pomposity. Same syntax. Same guy.

huh?

I don't know what the hell's going on here but the aformentioned "idea" being bandied about by you people on this site is a fully realized script I've already submitted to Hollywood. And Tom Green is certainly not a consideration--(it's not a comedy, for godsake!!)

I've been piddling around with the idea of doing a script on John L. Sullivan, the last bare-knuckled heavyweight champion. He's been dead now over 80 years. The last movie about him was 60 years ago. Lots have been written on him I the far past so I think I have enough to cobble something together. However, there also is a recent book written on him--a very scholastic and tedious 450 pager. It is heavily annotated with references to the original sources, most of which (I presume) are in the public domain. My questions are these. Am I safe to use any dramatic license I want in telling the story of such a long-deceased public figure? May I use source material from this recent book, since that material is derived from the public domain? Would there be a marketing advantage instead for me to enter into some type of agreement with that author? And if so, how does one accomplish that--what is a common arrangement made? Thanks for any insights. Jay

Thanks for all the help. And especially to you, Todd--you may have just saved me a year of my life! A year ago I spent over a hundred hours researching and outlining a script based on the Battle of Thermopyle in 480 B.C., to only discover Universal was preparing to do a big production movie on the same subject. Hollywood had only once before made a movie on it and that was a cheesy -flick over 40 years ago. And last week I tracked down the rights to an obscure 1950's out-of-print book "The Unlikliest Hero" (the story of Medal of Honor recipient Desmond Doss) to learn that the rights were just sold last month for an intended feature film. These were all pretty obscure subjects--what were the chances! This game might be a lot tougher than I figured.

I'm a veteran now of over two dozen contests and the one I'm most appreciative of is the Texas Film Institute. Other contests have advance me further in their judging, but I've never been treated with with more consideration or received better notes--multi-page notes that are incredibly detailed and helpful. The Moviebytes "report card" shows the tremendous respect they garner. Only downside is that it takes several months after submission to get the results and notes. Well worth it though when you get them.

Maybe someday I will again be able to spout the bromides for tolerence and restraint but for now I just want our pound of flesh. A BIG pound. And until a better target shows it's head I'd like to start with that gap-toothed Palistinian crone who couldn't contain her glee before the CNN cameras yesterday!

I'm with Melvin. And I wouldn't trade one more American life for a thousand Afganistans'--or whomever else proves to be our enemy.

The fact is there are almost never any benefits to a contest other than to help us learn how competitive our script is and--for those contests that offer feedback--how best to fix our script's deficiencies. To win or place also helps add some credence to query letters. Beyond that, all the other hoped for benefits--the presumed industry contacts and leads--have little efficacy in the real world. So yeah, I think the Texas contest is especially good. And I agree we should seek good free feedback wherever possible. And I believe sometimes it's wise to hire the right script consultant too, if one has the means. We have much better chance for success if our passions and resourses are invested primarily honing our scripts and craft. I think we spend too much of ourselves in marketing.

I'm no religionist but the murders committed in the name of God pale in comparison to those committed by madmen with no faith. Stalin killed 20 million and he was an atheist. Hitler caused 50 million deaths and I don't imagine he'd ever seen the inside of any place of worship. And Pol Pot (what the hell kind of name is that? What could his parents been thinking??) was another atheist. On the other hand, this Islam thing needs some serious explaining. I see a Muslum walk down my street I'm following him.

I have won or finaled in eleven contests to date--seven if you don't count the ones I made up--and for this I have received a tiny bit of cash and a miniscule number of reads. The whole process though has helped me improve my script and help me become a better writer. Certainly if I had placed in the top five of one of the major contests I might have gained representation or even a deal, but what are those chances? Maybe five out of 4000? Five out of 5000? That's called "hubris" if you're counting on those odds! And even amoung those chosen, very few pictures are ever made. I've heard of at least one Nicholl winner that didn't even gain an agent from the experience. We are misguided if we think we're effectively marketing our wares when we enter contests. The prime benefit is the direct and indirect feedback we receive and the greater heft a contest placing gives to a query. But, alas, I repeat myself.

I can disparage a man's religion as well as the next guy but Stalin and Pol Pot were card carrying communists and hence, card carrying athiests, regardless of their earlier upbringing. But they were also psychopaths; the one commonality of all people of terror. An expert on the subject claims 5% of all populations are psychpathic. Some causes--religious or humanist--give these madmen a special platform to vent their evil. I've had special traffic with this breed. I've been to war and seen them personally in action. And my best friend was a psychopath--I was a secondary character in a book called "Son" and a t.v. movie entitled "Sins of the Mother" made a few years ago about him. He was an agnostic but a fervent follower of Aynn Rand ,the humanist leader and author of "Atlas Shrugged", "The Fountainhead", and "The Virtue of Selfishness". It's zeolotry in all it's forms we need to watch out for. And that's why I'm now keeping a special watch of those Muslims (refer to the first part of my first sentence).

P.S.--I again want to assert that the TFI contest's notes are incredible and worth alone much more than the application fee. And if those people respect anything of the principle "quid pro quo", I expect to be announced anyday as the winner of this year's contest.

With a little bit of tweaking I think I can make my Viet Nam war saga "Semper Fi" work. I always sort of saw it as a chick flick, anyway. I'm in!

Thank you. Would it be too much to ask you to lobby TFI to advance me further in their contest? Thanks--Jay

Countries that border Afgahnistan: 1,Pakistan; 2,Iran; 3,Russia; 4,China; and 5,United States(soon, very soon).

Thomas, you're put off by that little comment? Listen to what I get back ;"...witless, mindnumbing drivel...of pointless tripe." And that was BEFORE the attack! Now what kind of chance have I got!?

Melvin, Hey, that's funny! We should all contribute our most outrageous comments given us by readers. So I'll add another, this one from Scriptwriters Network; "There aren't any redeaming qualities to this script. It's a one-pager." The guy obviously has some anger problems. The asshole.

P.S.---I usually enjoy playing the fool but now I'm feeling a little bit shy about it. I added the last part of my last post because I thought it funny.

One thing I've learned in my prior life is that we can't afford to do business with everybody that may choose to do business with us. There are abusive, energy-sapping, passion-sapping people that need to be avoided. If he next approaches you in anything but a totally friendly manner I think you should fire him.

Depressive people are hard to amuse. But it's up to us to keep trying, guys.

I chose not to enter this contest because the Moviebytes Report Card rates them so poorly.

Melvin, may I ask a question about the circus life? What I want to know is, do the clowns have sex? I just can't see it. I mean, I can see the midgets having sex. And I can imagine the trapese artists too (I mean, I can REALLY see them going at it!) But the clowns--I just don't know. And the bearded lady. Does she have sex? And if she does--I mean, forgodsake, with who? Thanks for any help you can give me--Jay

And the guy on stilts.

And if he does, how? (And then I've got questions about the fat lady.)

Melvin, I'm sorry I brought up your Mother. I was insensitive. But you have cleared up some questions--Jay

Please, let's behave. Right now, as Americans, let us agree to only make fun of fundamentalist Muslims. And Jane Fonda. Agreed? Thank you. P.S.-For those not in the know, the Melvin-Ashley shtick is great humor and wasn't to be taken seriously.)

Well, now you've all done it, haven't you? Wouldn't take Uncle Jay's word for it and now he may no longer call or write. He meant no harm, surely.

Just an aside on the "readers from hell" issue: I recently fuelled that argument with the thread "readers are morons", but I was making my arguments under my George Costanza (of Seinfeld)personna. It was all buffoonery. I don't think readers are morons. I think agents are morons. Thank you.

Huh?

Just wanted to congratulate Babs too. I've seen your script "War" honored twice in past couple days. It's a great title but I'm intrigued. It doesn't sound like a genre that most women scibes tackle. I hope that doesn't sound sexist because I certainly don't mean to be. I'd like to know more about it. Good luck! Jay

Just heard from them today. Said quarter and semi-finals just went out (for whatever it's worth)

I just got my evaluation this afternoon. They were very encouraging. But they were also critical, in a helpful way. It's a great service.

"scibes" should read "scribes". And "sexist" should read "like a sexist pig". Thank you.

I'm not sure but assume US Post. Good luck.

I'm screwed!

Yeah, and what if "the whole package" got injured in, say, a freak bowling accident. Would "thoughtfulness" be enough to carry a guy through, do you think?

huh?

thank you. thank you very much.

For godsake, Niall, try to get some help!

Hi Tom--I cast the following votes (the first four are probably on the most other lists, too.) Nicholl, Austin, Chesterfield, Scriptapalooza--and for those that may also want the best notes to improve the script--TFI and Scriptwriters Network.

Hey--now ask me which are the worst five! (Give me time to pare the list down, though.)

Considering the WORST contests, a new one just entered the fray that may be a contender. Check out the "Barrier Magazine" site. They've posted a script of their own that they're promoting. It looks like something a group of jr. high boys, wanting to talk dirty, might put together. I think I'd rather trust my chances to Nicholl. By the way, what should constitute the claim that you publish a "magazine"? Shouldn't there actually be a MAGAZINE? (And has anyone ever seen "Square Magazine" on a news rack? Square easily makes my current "Worst Five".)

You guys are good! I read the query twice and couldn't find any errors, until Sondra and Terry identified them. I think I may be in the wrong arena--think I'll try tole painting next.

I'm glad it's gone. I exposed way too much of my self. I especially regret the Julia Childs remark.

Richard is no Melvin. Melvin was a great wit and you guys picked on him unduly.

They exceeded their announcement deadline by several weeks. I'm not going to consider them again. (Compare their reports cards to Nicholl, Austin, or--especially--Texas Film Institute!)

Weeks? I ment MONTHS!

There's a difference between being amusingly risque and patently obscene. Everybody really knows the difference, including guys who say they don't. Some boys just like talking dirty in front of women. It's a perversion not unlike that of a flasher. Pretty pathetic.

Of course he got set up--that was a given (I still grieve over what she did to that poor son-of-a-bitch Melvin.) But that's not the point. The fact is, it's hard to get a woman to talk naughty to you. They're just not very good at it. And they're not sincere about it.(They're nothing like us.) And they're real skittish, even while they're cooperating. They're like quail--if you come on to strong they scatter. And that's what he did--he spooked her, and now she's gone. And now we got NOTHIN'!

I always thought Ann Murray seemed a little mannish.

shit

Hi Terri, If you've become doubting of your talent because of the scathing opinion of a one person I think you need to get iyour script in the hands of a lot more readers. Then if you see the same elements criticized, you'd at least know what to fix. I'd be happy to study your script and give you my thoughts on it, if you'd like. (My subjective opinion can be as objective as the next guy's!) Jay

Deer Park in Washington State?

I feel the same as Paula, it's a poorly run operation. They did give me a laugh recently though. The contest requires two SASE's with application. The second envelope's only purpose was to save them the postage to send a solicitation for this years contest! Now, that's funny (oh, it's kind of schlocky too, but still funny).

I was a finalist in last year's Monterey and my script was decidedly UNfamily oriented. No requests or inquiries resulted from my placing, but that will sadly be the case (usually) with every contest except for the top three or four. Good luck with yours though. Jay

I was a finalist in last year's Monterey and my script was decidedly UNfamily oriented. No requests or inquiries resulted from my placing, but that will sadly be the case (usually) with every contest except for the top three or four. Good luck with yours though. Jay

Who is copying my posting!! (There will be hell to pay when I get to the bottom of this, I'm tellin' ya!)

Yes Bob, I've been suspecting that for some time now.

I didn't enter Worldfest last year because it has received such poor marks in our "contest report card" section. I don't knoe anything about the contest otherwise--are there any amoung us that recommends this one? Thanks

Thanks Susan. That was pretty much impression too.

damnit, if this ends up working out for him, I'm doing it

I put a script out to contests a year ago (actual comment from Greg Beal and the fine Nicholl organization--"your script is drivel and you're an idiot") and I'm back polishing it. I want to make it even BETTER. My script opens with "INT. MOVIE THEATER (1950's) MOVIE SCREEN depicts a World War Two battle scene. Two ten year old boys watch...(etc.)" My question is this--If I could use the description and dialogue from an actual movie of that era (specifically John Wayne's "The Sands Of Iwo Jima") it would help me with exposition and foreshadowing. Is there anyway I can get away with it? I know that all the advise tells us in the case of using specific music is to not do it unless we've procured the rights. In principle I know this is probably the same, but what do you think? Any help given will be sincerely appreciated! Thanks---Jay

I thought of doing that, Shelley, but using a real 40's-50's John Wayne movie would work a little better because his name is a recurring reference in the script. Thanks

Thank you Kevin, that was helpful. The scene in question is the very first--and using Sands Of Iwo Jima is not essential--so maybe I should take the safe course and not do it. (Rats!)

I was extemporizing. It's just that I hold Beal in such high esteem that I feel that must be his opinion.

He did fault my second act though. Said he had seen it verbatim in somebody elses script

I believe I won it. At least I've not heard anything to the contrary.

Doug, wow!, that was wonderful! If it's decided I can use that technique, I'd love to use your very wording, (if I may.) Thanks all.

You guys, I'd really like to know how you've all been so prolific. I have more descretionary time than any other human being on this planet (no, I mean I really do, I'm not kidding!) and my goal for the year is to begin a 1st draft and conclude the "final" draft of a script of which I've alrady developed a step outline. That means my total time investment in the project at that point will be 13-14 months. How can you guys be doing so many projects in the same time? (Granted, if I didn't spend my mornings downloading Gloria Estefan pictures I'd have even more time---but then, what would be the point?) Anyway, I'm obviously not getting the job done. Have any of you kept track of how many hours a script takes you from beginning to end? How do you work? How many hours a day? Do you work on more than one project at a time, (as Miriam must be doing now?) I'm flummoxed and curious. Thanks--Jay

and I'm lying when I suggested I had 1-2 months in the step outline. It's really closer to 6 months (and I'm lying about that too.)

Their offer was to waive the fee for finalists of other contests. They reneged and dunned me $65. They kept my script and I kept my money--I'd rather be abused by people I respect. Hope it works out for you guys, though.

I appreciate everyone's comments. When I started out I read Sylvester Stalone's claim he wrote "Rocky" over a long weekend. I know now he was lying. Regardless---I want to get back to Gloria Estefan. I live in Spokane. We have a river that roars through the center of town. I was driving across the Maple Street Bridge on my way to work (ok, that's not true--I don't have a job) and I see a guy standing out on the railing, about to jump. I was concerned and rushed to his side (that's just the way we are in Spokane) and tried to talk him down. I said, think of your family. He says he doesn't have a family. I say, think what God would want. He says he doesn't believe in God. I said, then get down for the sake of Gloria Estefan. He says, who's Gloria Estefan? So I tell him, JUMP YOU SON-OF-BITCH, JUMP! My question; did I have any fault here?

and I asked him how much he wanted for his shoes--but we couldn't come to terms. He was a real asshole.

Well, I'm personily drawing the line there!---unless, you know, they come up with some more women producers

I don't understand the animus so quickly expressed on this site. If "I See" is correct, he told us something interesting. The Colleen Ventimilia brouhaha should have toned down peoples over-quick judgements. Granted, I am of an older generation than many of you (well--I'm 17) but I think more goodwill should be shown at Moviebytes.

So, Paula--you must now mock me because of my tender age, huh? This is exact kind of incivility I was hoping to change.

Well, James, I don't know quite what to say. The information you've brought forth is as shocking to me as it was to you. Let me sleep on it and I'll get back with you tomorrow (Needless to say, I feel a bit like a damn fool at the moment!)

I appreciate Paula rising to my defense--it takes a very brave 10 year old to stand up to such a nattering group of grownups. I, however, I won't strike out at those who have questioned my truthfulness. In my younger and more vulnerable years my homeroom teacher, Miss Herschel, gave me some advice that I've been turning over in my mind ever since. "Whenever you feel like criticizing any one", she told me, "just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had."

It is too bad but it is certainly understandable. Their notes were of the detail and quality of the analysts who commonly charge $300+. I didn't see how they could afford to do all that for the $70 admission/notes fee. Regardless, I'll enter my next script in their contest and hope for a semi-finalist slot. This is maybe the best-run contests out there.

Hi Craig---I'm really interested in what you meant when you referenced "Being John Malovich." Will you tell us more? And can you say more more about your writing assignment? (I'd understand if you can't). Thanks--Jay

Mitchell, I'd be happy to look at your script (I tried to reach you through your email but couldn't get through. Djay99216@aol.com

I have new appreciation of our friends from the north after seeing the memorial service and support you gave America after Sept. 11. You guys are all right. The movie you should consider imitating is Peter Seller's; "The Mouse That Roared". Follow that example--declare war on the U.S., then surrender, then get rich from American aid. (I've tried it. Hasn't worked for me. I think you actually have to be from another country.)

Well, this is the final straw. It's just been brought to my attention that Miss Herschel's advise (see my previous post on this thread) was plaugerized WORD-FOR WORD from the first paragraph from F. Scott Fitzgerald's "The Great Gatsby"! I'm stunned! Now I have to question the validity of everything that woman ever told me (she was also my shop teacher.) And with this final humiliation I must now bid adieu to my friends at Moviebytes. After my current script I'm going to consider doing novels or epigrams next, anyway. (By the way--I started this screenwriting thing over three years ago when I bought Viki King's book "How to Write A Movie in 21 Days". According to that schedule I should be finishing my 42nd script by now --and here I am, struggling on my 2nd. I'm thinking Miss Viki is in the same league as Miss Herschel!). Good luck, all

wha......huh??

whi..huh?...I mean, what?

obviously D.G. wasn't writing about you. Take a pill, dude.

what?

I, for one, have really appreciated D.G.'s postings. He's funny and he's encouraging. And he's an excellent screenwriter--I've read one of his posted scripts. He may be one of the few on Moviebytes that has a good shot at this. (Wouldn't that make some of our faces red!) No, the ones I'm concerned about are those who are hanging on to their sanity by the thinnest of threads. Umbrage is taken by the merest of excuses and then the true meaning of "ranting" takes place. It scares me. And it frustrates me--I wish I could do more to help them. I often wish they would just go away. But maybe they have no place to go--maybe we're it--and this is the burden we must bare for being human. But I don't know. Sometimes I just think they should just go f**k themselves.

The guy was a great wit. I still remember his schtick about getting 1st place in "a nice little contest" sponsored by the Boise Idaho Potato Grower's Association. It was as funny as Woody Allen (I mean, when Woody Allen was funny.) And then Melvin was gone--harried and hounded and badgered (it broke my heart) and persecuted by scolds, and so he left. Maybe if those who were most responsible would simply post an apology on this site, he would come back. Maybe. It's worth a try.

(hope the same thing doesn't happen to D.G.)

Colleen, I hope you lurk less and participate more. I've always appreciated your contributions here. You're one of the few grownups. You and Paula. And Miriam. And Ron and Marc and--what the hell, I'll throw in Mitchell because I like him--and a few others. And Me. God bless us.

and Steven

OK, Steven, I can work with you. Just say you're a LITTLE bit sorry, and I'll see what I can do with it. Granted, I don't think you were an offending partner--but like Clint Eastwood said in "Unforgiven", "we're all guilty, kid". (I used to negotiate for a living. I wasn't very good at it. So I could use the practice.)

OK, and Shelly. (Please don't anyone else e-mail me asking to be put on the list. I did say "and a few others", for godsake!)

I was in a MOW. In my experience, with few exceptions, you need everybody's signature.

You're on it, babe.

Randy, this is good. We're talking about it--this is progress. Could you maybe agree that you were a bit "obtuse". That's not so terrible an admission, is it? Could I take that to him? Your friend, Jay

OK, I think I know where you're going with this. "Buyers always pay more than they expect--seller's always receive less" (a real estate quote--kind of). So, you're suggesting a compromise, huh? OK! How about this; a TACIT apology! Your further silence on the matter is your apology...no...this is better--your "regret", that you may have inadvertantly contributed to a breach in your relationship with Melvin. I can make that fly, buddy! Thank you.

Damnit, but I do care, Randy. That's just the way I'm built. And if you're not getting any help from your therapist get another! Or better yet, scrap all that psycho-babble/neur-transmitter nonsense. I've received much more enlightenment through the teachings of D.G. than I have of all my readings of Kant and Hegel. Best wishes (and I mean it!0 Jay

Randy, this is awkward. When I didn't hear back from you I went ahead and e-mailed Melvin your apology, as per your instructions. As your agent in this matter I must warn you that it will appear to be bad faith on your part if you try to rescind an apology, at this late date. And remember, yours is only one of several necessary to mend this alienation. So, let's just see what happens. (And anyway, maybe he won't accept!)

D.G.--I found a thread. Click on the "display all messages under author's name" at the end of my post and then find my post of 8/02 under "Does anyone else have..." and you'll find him in the discussion. His amusing "Boise Idaho" post is on 7/29. Soon after that he started to take a terrible drubbing. (The poor bastard.)

he said no. (damnit!)

Granted, Mitch, that is just like Melvin. He can get a little "prickly". But on the same token, take a little harder look at Randy's apology--THERE'S REALLY NOT THAT MUCH THERE!!!! I don't doubt the guy's sincerity, but I need something more than that before I can go back to Melvin. Come on-- I'm not a magician, people!

Or you could run a contest the way Empire does. I made one cut after another a year ago--and then got notice they were cancelling the finals because of the "poor quality of scripts". Granted, mine was nonsensical, but other contestants scripts had done well in competing contests. (Interesting note; my script only printed out to 56 pages, so I was forced to bring in the margins and repeat pages 17 thru 32 just to bring it up to standard length. In hindsight I'm probably lucky to have made the first two cuts) Anyway, they had some loophole in their rule that allowed them to cancel. It was an expensive experience because with each cut they required additional drafts copied and mailed in. Their profit was 100%! They're not the only ones--"Dixie" hasn't announced winners for several consequitive contests, and they don't answer e-mails enquiring why that is. They also run a another contest under another name (that slips my memory) so beware. So yeah, anybody can run a contest. Good news--TFI is coming up soon. They may be the best of the smaller contests.

Dudes! Now that is funny stuff!

A point represents 1% of revenue. One should always hope to negotiate for points on the gross--but that is nearly always a deal killer--producers usually will only concede points on the net (because, through creative bookkeeping, there is almost never a net profit!) I've never heard of the screenwriters getting points, though I'm sure it happens.

yeah, we don't play that game. (we're not as dumb as we look, man)

Wow. Just got back. A great tutorial for screenwriters...incredible character development, wonderful sructure and turning points. And everything shown at the front was paid off in the end. I'm in awe, but I don't want to say too much for those that haven't seen it. Would love to have a discussion with those eyes only that have seen it. There is so much to learn or to be inspired from studying this one.(imho)

We'll crush him like a grape! (I wouldn't wish us on my worst enemy)

I imagine that the majority of the 34% were well informed voters--hence their interest in voting. The apathetic shouldn't be voting. Nor should the antipathetic--(they oughta move back to the middle east.)

We don't have 50 % non-participation. Not if you eliminate the rumpots, schizoids, dopeheads, felons and whores. And they really shouldn't be voting anyway, should they?. No, we're really talking maybe 5%. And some of them were probably just running late and couldn't make it to the polls. P.S. brandon. Have you ever considered changing species?

I counted Jane Fonda twice.

She being the whore.

I hope she dies.

but please pardon my digression

D.G.--thanks, bro! I did get carried away last night--and I now have a nagging little cough I didn't have before. Is it too late? If I'm nice will it go away? I hereby rescind my angry thoughts towards Jane Fonda. I hope she lives well and prospers. Brandon--Why settle on America? There's a hundred and ninety one countries out there (I still count Viet nam as two--I haven't given up). If you're so unhappy with us all, you should go. Have you ever considered Yeman? It can be very nice there. If I was going to change countries I think, purely on the asthetics of their flag, I would take a hard look at Sri Lanka. Granted, the colors might be a little busy for some, but I like it--it's got this bad-ass looking lion strutting his stuff! Based on their flag alone I'd never want to screw with those people! And what is up with Libya!?? Could they have put a little more thought into it? That's it? Just green...nothing else?! They're morons!! (Sorry D.G., forgot myself.) Uruguay--that's a nice one, too.

Aw--what the hell. I changed my mind. I still hope jane Fonda dies.

Oh yeah, people, we all have the answers for the world's problems. Have you read all the postings in this thread?! Not one of us has said anything that smacks of normalcy. We're not well. (I'm going to exclude D.G. from this opinion because, frankly, he's my spiritual guide, and if he crashes I'm really screwed.) No, I think that, rather than railing on at each other espousing our own brand of nonsense, we should be supporting each other--encouraging each other--maybe sharing tips on medications that have been helpful--stuff like that. We are in this together! Your friend, Yossarian.

Okay...fine. You all talk about escaping the confines of our restrictive culture but I'm finally going to do something about it. I just Dominica on my globe and I booked a flight 10 minutes ago. (I mean, I really did!)It's the tiniest spot I could find on my map--just follow your finger down the chain of islands of the West Indies and you'll find it, just this side of Hell. I'm leaving you soft, corrupted Americans behind (Beleze my ass!! Belieze is like the Trump Towers compared to Dominica!) My flight's on the 22nd of April and then I'm outta here. Third world countries are way too much like America for me--this is maybe, at best, 5th world country. Dilituants go to Belize and Guatamala! Have you got cannibals in Guatamala? Belize? I thought not! (Actually, you may have cannibals in Belize and Guatamala. I have no idea what's in those damn jungles. When I was there I was scared spitless and tried to keep a low profile--mostly by hiding under my covers.) Anyway, if I like the place I may try to take it over--just like in that Sean Connery movie. (What was it called? I better rent it before I go.) I'll be Moviebyte's reporter-in the-field. And I'll find out if this is a good place for Brandon to move to. Your friend, Yossarian. P.S., Craig--I like you, man, but you're scaring the hell out of me. Grendel was always a monster. And he was never a nice monster. He was an amoral monster. And that's as bad as you can be. (Did you see "American Psycho"? That's your Grendel.) I'm afraid you bare close watching, my friend. Close watching.

what? Regardless..I have bigger fish to fry at the moment. It seems Mr. Frederick Mensch will not allow me my new sobriquet of "Iam Yossarian". What is this--NAZI GERMANY?? This is the very reason I'm moving to Dominica! Is it because I'm Armenian, Frederick? (And is "Frederick Mensch" your real name? I think not!) I believe Mohammed Ali went through the same thing--and you know how that worked out! You can call me what you choose, Mr. Mensch, but in the very core of my being Iam Yossarian!

Well, my friends, I'm afraid very few of you would be any good with a bayonet. That's not necessarily a bad thing--so long as there are a few of us on the perimeter who are handy with one. There are some bad, bad people out there!

(So...Frederick. I must again become "D. Jay Williams", huh? We're going to play hardball, are we??)---Yossarian!

I've been gone--haven't been writing. But I'm going back to work on a script centered in ancient Greece. (Yeah, like that's got any chance!) Marcel-I had a long career in the ring. E-mail me if I can help you with any questions. You said it was about a girl fighter, and I was still in the game when the first females showed up in the gym.

uh...well...hmmm...where to start. Shit, I'll just come out with it--I don't know anybody in this business. Why would you come to me?

I've been there. 10 years ago. Didn't think I could make it, and I really thought my loved ones would be better off without me. Finally went to my doctor and he prescibed anti-depressants and counciling. He said it would take ten days before I felt better--and I counted damn near every miserable minute toward that promised moment. Fact is, the wait for relief took longer than 10 days and it was more subtle than dramatic when it arrived. But it did come, and when it did my head cleared enough to know I would have damaged a lot of lives if I had taken that way out. Dispair is often the result of chemical imbalances in which our concept of reality has been altered. Anybody feeling that bad needs to get in front of a doctor or to a mental health clinic and there really will come relief. Best wishes to all.

That is a shame. TFI was maybe just a tiny click shy of being another Nichol. They helped a lot of writers and will be missed.

sad

Nicholl's Greg Beal addressed this question a couple of years ago and concluded that your best shot may be to have the script arrive one week before the deadline. On the otherhand, I followed his advice last year for my script "Motorcycle Sluts from Hell" and got NOTHING!! So what's up with that? I think I was misled.

It was a love story. I wrote it from my heart.

intended for the woman's market.

Ashley--none of my business really but you're the one that brought it up, and I just can't get it out of my mind. Which was it?

Hi Bill--I'm a former Marine, an 0311 (rifleman). Combat, banged up, full disability--not that bad a deal. Jay

Well, the thing is, the only reasons a clerk would card somebody he thought might be 17 is if they're trying to get cigarettes, or porno. I can't believe it was cigarettes, in light of your admonishments against drugs and your promotion of a stringent vitamin regimen. And if it was really porno then...ah...hmmm...well, damn girl--give me a call sometime.

Craig--I still have the kind words you once wrote me on that script and I still appreciate it. Ron--Small world. I was with Echo 2/4 in '68-69. The whole world heard what you guys went through at Khe Sahn. The bad guys had you outnumbered ten to one and they couldn't take that base away from you, could they? I have a lot of respect for you guys. By the way, I have an Esquire Magazine article from 1981 written by Bill Broyles, about his Marine service in Nam. E-mail me your addrss and I'll send you a copy. -Semper Fi

Hi Ron--Yeah that's where we plied our trade. (I less diligently than most. I discovered that the more I fired at the enemy the more excacerbating I seemed to make the situation). Hey Tom--I'm glad to make your aquaintance. I remember a radio tranmission that advised a Force Recon squad of 9 men to not attack a 2000 member enemy force they were trailing. We all thought it very funny--and very revealing. There have been nice sentiments expressed here, and appreciated. There are two prominant screenwriters whose woek is greatly influenced by their Viet Nam combat experiences. Oliver Stone, who came back from the war embittered and arguably anti-American, evidenced by the dramatic but politicized "Born On The Fourth Of July", and "J.F.K.", with it's excecrable lie. And then there is William Broyles, who came back from that experience with a greater appreciation for his country and it's citizens.

Sorry for my consistantly bad spelling on this BB. I don't know how to use spellcheck when I'm posting, and if I try to take the time to proof read I run out of time before it deletes my post. Anyway, if anyone wants a copy of Broyles Esquire Magazine article from the early 80's--long before he became a screenwriter--I'd be happy to send it your way. I think he's going to be back at Austin this year, if anyone is going.

Sorry for my consistantly bad spelling on this BB. I don't know how to use spellcheck when I'm posting, and if I try to take the time to proof read I run out of time before it deletes my post. Anyway, if anyone wants a copy of Broyle's article in Esquire Magazine from the early 80's--long before he became a screenwriter--I'd be happy to send it your way. It's provacatively titled "Why Men Love War". I think he's going to be back at Austin this year, if anyone is going.

Who the hell is screwing with my posts. Is it you Frederick?! Are you up your cruel sport with me again?

Who the hell is screwing with my posts. Is it you Frederick?! Are you up your cruel sport with me again?

Yes, I quite thought so, Frederick! I've been watching you delete my perfectly crafted hendiadys, reorder my especially approps asyndetons, and subvert the intended meaning of my well considered enallages. And for what cruel purpose? To reduce my writings to this nonsensical blathering I've now become known for? Your pleasure then gained by my playing the baffoon, eh? Well, my friend, two can play this game! Yes, TWO! hahahahahahahahahahaha!

Denise--I don't understand. What e-mail?

Some of us used to chew tobacco in the service overseas. We'd chew and drink wine at the same time. The secret was to keep the chaw in one side of your mouth and then tip your head while drinking such that the wine courses past the tobacco on the other side. Anyway, it was a great talent--one that I actually lacked, because the last time I did it I got to the end of the wine and discovered that some time before I had apparently swallowed the chaw. I almost died. I was hospitalized for 10 days. They thought I had maleria. I never told them different.

Jail?

Actually, Marcel, I already have a script out called "Semper Fi". It's currently a quarter-finaist at Nichol, and if there is any justice in this world, soon should be the winner. It just goes to show that a script can do well even if it has severe problems with structure, underdeveloped charecters, unsympathetic protagonist, too much description, a tasteless joke bout having sex with a rock ape (although in fairness, there are no "tasteful" jokes about having sex with a rock ape. I mean, you can't have it both way, people!),stilted dialog, rampant sexism--which partially explains why this script tanked at "WinFemme", and a subject matter that has been done to death. I don't have a claim on "Semper Fi", though. You can't copyright a title, so the more the merrier.

The script has other problems, too.

Congratulations and best wishes, Randy.

That's so funny! I didn't know that bugged anybody else. I just saw Bruce Willis take a fake sip in Signs. I'm like Seinfeld's George Costanza--I kept obsessing over that the rest of the movie. Another thing that surprises me is the modern inappropriate hair styles for period pieces or military scenes. What?, they can't cut their hair for authenticity, after so much effort is made in other areas?

Well, like I said, I was pretty distracted after that fake sip--Frankly, I don't know who was in that damned movie. On the otherhand, Willis and Gibson are darned near interchangeable. Maybe they're the same guy! Ever seen the two of them together in the same room? Huh? Food for thought. On the other matter, I read through Randy's past postings and have more appreciation for what he contributes to MovieBytes. He has a lot of important stuff to share.

I agree absolutely with Jay, yet I'm using flashbacks in my current script. (In fact, I have a flashback within a flashback!) I know the risks of doing it poorly but I'm taking a shot at it. If it works the story will be better for it. And if it doesn't, it wouldn't have been good enough anyway, so I have nothing to lose. Sometimes that's what it comes down to.

I was contacted by Scot Abrahmson of Artists industry Management to send a script I had listed on this site. However my e-mail shows this is a Spam message. Does that mean everybody received this request that has a logline listed at The Writers Script Network? And has anybody had experience with Scot? He says his company is 18 months old. I'd just as soon save the copy and postage costs if this is a realreal longshot. thanks for any help.

"realreal"--what-the-HELL is that suppose to mean?? FREDERICK!!!

Thanks guys.

So, I get this letter from Austin a week ago telling me my script didn't make the second round (the bastards) and then today I get a letter congratulating me for making the second round (these people are Saints), so what gives? I haven't received such mixed messages since I was dating! I wouldn't be surprised if my script didn't make it (it only "normally" prints out to 64 pages--I've discussed this "peccadillo" before). Maybe I should call them. I don't know though--it's like looking a gift horse in the mouth. Maybe I should add it to my query letters, on faith. Has this happene to anybody else?

What the hell-I'm not calling them. Hey, they can only hurt my feelings if I do. I've just now added it to the WinningScriptsCom section. Hey, they can take my quarter-finals status from me when they pry that second letter out of my cold, dead hand!

It's the first letter that's the accurate one. I'm sorry.

Okay, you call. But be nice! And if they're gracious and accept us as quarter-finalists, please extent to them my appreciation for their cosideration. If, on the otherhand, they hold that the second letter is in error, beat around the bush as best as you can...and then tell them to go screw themselves. Thank you.

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm still mad as hell and I just can't get past it. And it seems that it is only us and a very few friends against the whole world. I know we're going to take more hits too, but I'm remembering something Joe Louis said about the Nazis. He said he knew we would win because God was on our side. I wish everyone and your loved ones well this day. God bless America. (And good luck in hell Ben Laden.)

Craig--congratulations on advancing in the Scriptworld contest! I know "Whiskeytown" has done well elsewhere too. What a great title! I've looked for your logline but couldn't find it. Please share it with us.

Red Inkworks is one of the few contests I've entered this year and I decided on them based on the laudiatory comments from this board. They sound like they may become another great smaller contest like TFI--(which I've heard is ending their contests. Is that so? I sure hope they're not!)

I kept an article on this subject written by Jan McInnis (although I don't know her credentials) and she said that a manager of an actor will sometimes read an unsolicited script. But maybe Patricia has tried that route and has learned it doesn't work. I have a question; How would we find out who an actor's agent is? (WhoRepresents.com?)And are there other ways to find agents/managers? I've learned that sometimes they don't have all the actors in their data base. And is there a way to learn if a given actor hs a production company? Thanks

Yeah, it was kinda fun to see my name appear like that. He may have chosen me as an example because of the amount of his help I required. That early draft had a character mistakenly identified by two different names, another whose name I alternately spelled two different ways, and another who I killed in the second act but who miraculously reappeared alive in the third. (You can imagine how chagrined I am reading controversies such as whether a period should follow a page number, or whether we should or should not use brad washers, when I'm still wrestling over these much larger issues!)

Sorry--correction--my question is how we find the manager of an actor (not agent).

Ashley-You're beating yourself up over nothing. You're always way too hard on yourself. Relax. (did we forget to take our vitamins this morning?)

Alright. I'll call. I don't see any good that can come from it though.

I finally got through--talked to a nice lady. She says that, unfortunately, the second letter was in error. So I says are you aware of the common law principle that an addendum supercedes the original terms. So she says you sound like a lawyer. I tell her let's just say I've spent a lot of time in court. She says she has to say goodbye and take another call. I say no wait, are you also aware of the legal term "Crede Quod Habes Ethabis" and she responds with yeah, and do you know the phrase "Non Sine Numine." (Wow. She pulled out the big guns! I didn't expect "Non Sine Numine".) And then she says hey, I know who you are now--you sent in the script that prints out to maybe 50 pages at best, if you hadn't brought in the margins and then repeated pages 28-56. So I tell her I was just trying bring in the best script I could. So then she says, yeah? and where did you get that second act. I tell her From "Driving Miss Daisey." She says you're a moron. I tell her she should at least send me back my appliction fee. And she says the only thing I was going to get from Austin was a restraining order. I then ask her if this decision would impair my chances to advance in the semi-finals. And then she hung up on me.

P.S. Gregory--I also said that if they wouldn't give me my quarter finalist award you were going to walk too. So she said okay, he's out. I'm sorry.

Craig, I don't know why you haven't sold those scripts yet. The titles conjure all of the requisite promises of romance and adventure! Those damn Hollywood gatewatchers--what the hell are they looking for?

***SPOILER ALERT*** I had a problem with the set-up in "Signs", too. But last night, before I screamed myself to sleep, I considered other problems I saw in this movie: 1). The aliens were as dumb as DIRT! Why did the show up to a war unnarmed? And why did they screw around with the people in this little farm community.( Couldn't they think of a better strategic area to wage their war on mankind?) 2) Why did the alien missing his fingers show back up at the farm house after the others had left? Was it because he was still pissed over the fingers? #3) Why did the aliens screw around so long killing that dog? If it was to silence him for the purpose of sneaking up on our farm family, they really botched it. (See #1 objection again).

Oh yeah--and another thing (I guess this would be #4) Nobody was nearly as scared as they should have been, based on the threat. (If I had been the director I would have had them all at least wet themselves by the end of the first act, just like that unfortunate little girl in Excorcist). #5) So--Mel Gibson/Bruce Willis lives on a farm and he doesn't own a weopon? What is he--a Quaker? (And if so, where was the hat?) He couldn't even come up with a knife? Or even a rock to defend his family? True, the brother finally decides to arm himself with a bat. But the back story showed that he only considered that because he had once been a pro ball player. (I guess they were lucky he hadn't been a squash player--he would have got his assed kicked!) #6) When it looked like it was curtains for the family and the aliens were breaking down the celler door, why did the grownups decide the children should stand the closest to the door? Did Bruce/Mel and his brother think it might buy them enough time to escape while the aliens were attacking the children??!!

ahh, this is kiling me, but one more thing (and then my meds should be kicking in). How could the aleins be so fast (remember when he raced around the house at the speed of light and the lept a tall bulding-the farmhouse--in a single bound?) and then be so slow in that livingroom confrontation? The guy just stood there, getting the crap knocked out of him, seemingly unable to move. He was as fast as lightening one minute, and s slow as a glasier the next. Instead of fighting him they could have just walked away from him, and he couldn't have kept up. And did you see how much damage he was able to sustain before he went down? He was a big boy--yet these guys couldn't manage to put their shoulders to the doors and break their way through? Not the celler door? Not even that pantry door?? You want to see a tough alien, look at "Alien". These other guys were pussies--I could have whipped them, and I'm not the toughest guy on my street. (I'm not the toughest guy in my house!)

I'm sorry for your loss. I bet your Dad would have appreciated the love and respect you showed him with those words. Best wishes

And you should incorporate somewhere your Dad's line about avoiding excercize because it makes him tired. I've been laughing about that since!

I think the guy's dead, too. It's been more than 6 months since we've heard from him--not since we bombed the shit out of Tora Bora, so I think his silence is probably not a coincidence.

And for $25,000,000 somebody would have ratted him out by now anyway. (These people kill and betray each other all th time for much less incentive. It's part of their culture).

By the way, Ron, your humor gives me the heebie jeebies. Are you, possibly, not well?

hmmmm...ahh...Peace Corps?

I've twice paid for professional analysis. The first was with Robert Flaxman, who was expensive but gave a line by line opinions and recommendations. The second was Melody Jackson of "Smart Girls", who was haughty and unhelpful. She didn't like my script and she didn't like me. (In that regard, she may well be a Lesbian).

I have also received exceptional notes from the TFI contest. They offer a service to analyze prior contestants scripts for (I think) $90 and $150 for anyone else. If this service is comparable to the contest notes it would be worth it at twice the price (imho).

Possibly something involving the C.I.A.?

Congratulations--that's a great honor that you've won. I'm glad your part of Moviebytes!

Hi Stephanie-- If you would like another peer review I'd be happy to read your script. There may be others willing to do so, also.

They have impressive credentials. Has anyone here had specific dealings with Brian Spink or his company? Thanks--Jay

I think Writer's Script Network is excellent. I'm listed on a couple of other competing sites also, but this is the only one that gets me any real results.

Thank you

?!

It wasn't a sex change operation--that's a given. (Anyway, he would have been back by now.) So, what's up? Where is D.G.?

I'm relieved! And I'm really happy for him. (He is my pastor, you know.)

And I miss his esotercisms--although, for the life of me I'm not always exactly sure what he's telling us. I think it's probably good though.

What I don't get is how he managed to e-mail us from a cave, but now he seems to be out of touch.

But, what the hell. I wish him well.

Damn, I got nothing. I'm out.

Hi Wayne

I read maybe the same but I don't think it was from this site. If I can find it I'll send it on.

I only remember from it was that LA prices were a fraction of what I pay in my town. It costs me 8 cents a page. In LA the costs are as low as 3 cents, and for a bit more they will bind it with cover and brads. (On the other hand, LA's "surtax" for crime and emphazema probably off-sets my extra costs here in Spokane.)

I've probably slammed these guys enough, but I once read part of a script of theirs that they were promoting on their website, and it was the worse tripe I've ever seen--and that includes even my own poorly recieved script "Motorcycle Sluts From Hell"!

If these guys are more than just a bunch of Junior High boys goofing off I'd be surprised.

Good luck

Steve! Might she be available? I'm thinking of shooting the thing myself!

D.G.! We missed you! 'Course, I'm now out my 20 bucks too ("...Sweden...sex change operation...") Boy do I have egg on my face!

So,let me get this straight:

Somebody on Moviebytes has volunteered to do you a favor (quite a big favor, actually); You tell him to take his time; But it's now been "more than a week; You're put out; You choose not to re-contact this person; Instead you bring your outrage to us. Is that it?

Okay, Who is this bastard? (The son-of-a-bitch--I'll kill him if I can lay my hands on him!)

You told him to take his time.

It's now been 'more than a week".

You're put out. Enough to complain to us.

Dude, then I want the Saint's job. I've got it down pat all ready.

Happy New Year, everybody.

I've been here since 1998 and I really believe you're providing the best site in the industry! Thanks for it all.

Yossarian

No. It was Rod Spence.

I still get the willies over the one about the old woman who destroys an alien spaceship--for us to only learn that it was a U.S. spaceship, and that it was she who was really an alien.

That was fine work, Rod.

Welcome to both Mary Ellen and Samual! Glad to have you aboard.

And just in time. It's in January that we spend most of energy debating whether it should be two brads or three and should it include brad washers or not (Craig recommended no fasteners and pages to be in random order--but I think he was just mean-spirited there--at least it didn't work out well for me) and whether the script should have a cover. Or not.

Looking forward to your contributions on these and other matters ;)

The stacotto SHRILL from a prairie bird breaks the silence of the night. (Or was it a bird?)

The Cowboy's freeze. They stare into the dark...

(And the First Cowboy turns to the Second.

1ST COWBOY Whoever wrote that last post must be a moron. He at least needs a dictionary and a Strunk and White.

2ND COWBOY Yup. )

And what about that show where this guy goes to heaven and he's living in perfect luxury and he gets to do anything he wants, and he never loses a hand of cards and he's got the most beautiful women in the world clinging to him--and then we discover he is really in hell!! Hey, makes a guy think, doesn't it?

Actually, I didn't get that one at all.

There really is no such thing as a no money option because for any contract to be valid there has to be "consideration" tendered. Could even be even a promissary note. Or a single dollar. Or even a horse-hair mattress. But something.

Low budget or not, I'd be chary of considering anything below a thousand or two. The less the optioning party has at stake the less they will be motivated to make the deal happen. And if they have nothing to lose it absolutely won't happen.

Good luck.

"The Game" is a fairly current script that uses montages. You can download it for free at Scriptdude.com, among other places.

There is also a good article on the subject at "absolutewrite.com" under the heading "crafty screenwriting".

Speaking of trailers, I thought the trailer for Jack Nicholson's flick "About Schmidt" was purposely misleading and really amounted to false advertising. The impression is that we're going to see a comedy. There were some amusing scenes, but mostly this is a very dark and depressive character study--one that probably could not have been made without Nicholson, and one (IMHO) that would have not been well attended if they had shown a more honest trailer.

By the way, can anybody who saw this movie tell me what revelation the protagonist gained in the end that made him feel his life was well lived? I just read a national review that claimed the end provided such an epiphany, but, for the life of me, I didn't see it.

You know you're from Spokane when sitcoms invoke the name for the following type of humor:

From "Taxi". An exchange between cabbie Jim Ignatowski, a burned out ex hippie, and a female visitor to the New York taxi garage. Ignatowski asks, Are you new in town?

"Yes"

"Where do you come from?"

"Spokane! Have you been there?"

"No...WAIT! What am I saying? I COME from Spokane--eh, I think. Say, that's a nice dress. Where did you get it?"

"In Spokane."

"In Spokane." He studies her figure closely. "Wow! Long time since I saw a dress from Spokae."

You know you're from Spokane when sitcoms invoke the name for the following type of humor:

From "Taxi". An exchange between cabbie Jim Ignatowski, a burned out ex hippie, and a female visitor to the New York taxi garage. Ignatowski asks, Are you new in town?

"Yes"

"Where do you come from?"

"Spokane! Have you been there?"

"No...WAIT! What am I saying? I COME from Spokane--eh, I think. Say, that's a nice dress. Where did you get it?"

"In Spokane."

"In Spokane." He studies her figure closely. "Wow! Long time since I saw a dress from Spokane."

Thanks Steven. Although on hind sight, I'm now thinking the first one is my favorite. Well, to each his own, I guess ;)

hey Gil--I can't get into site. Is it down at the moment?

You're in A.A.?

I'm with Richard. Let's see how long we can keep this thread going; a thread complaining about similar nonsensical threads. I'll stay with this as long as the rest of you guys will.

By the way, where the hell is Miss Ashley when we need her?!

Your name is Ellum?

I don't know--I thought you said your name was Vincent.

Ellum, if I'm wrong I stand corrected. But, hey--I didn't just make it up out of thin air. Where did I get the impression your name is Vincent? If I'm off base here I deeply apologize, but is it at least possible that the mistake is not mine? That maybe you misspoke and said your name was "Vincent"?

The same thing happened to a friend of mine. I knew him for years as Fred. Then suddenly he's pronouncing it as "Kevin". (In his case, though, it wasn't inadvertant.) He finally just had it leagally changed to Kevin. He's just finishing up a 25 year stretch at Walla Walla (The poor bastard), so, you can see why I mght be a little concerned by the subterfuge.

HEY--the A&E channel is doing a special on Fred/Kevin at the end of this month! They interviewed me on camera, so I'll be on it too. (I'll be the one who looks remarkably like Franlin D. Roosevelt's mother). I'll let you know when it's on--maybe it will help shed more light on this confusion.

MAN--THOSE LAST TWO POSTINGS ARE FREAKING ME OUT!!!

Oh wait--I think I see my mistake, now.

So anyway, I really do have a friend doing 25 at Walla Walla. That's "Walla Walla State Penitetiary"--although that brings up an interesting point; there IS no state called Walla Walla. There's barely even a town there! What were they thinking? A little presumptious wasn't it. They were probably assholes. But I digress.

This is why I considered becoming a screenwriter. A made-for-t.v. movie was done about him a number of years ago and one screenwriter after another traipsed up here to Spokane to interview me--one of them was John Gay who is especially well credentialed--and I learned that each was paid $120,000 to re-write the other. On today's dollar that would be more like $200,000 for each of them, for just a few weeks of work each. And here I was, in a sweat shop making a meager living, making meagers. From those contacts I decided to try my hand at Hollywood, so I found a book that I admired, optioned it, took it to the producer, who agreed to pay me $50,000 for my rights and give me a sceen credit, under one proviso--I had to have the subject of the book wiave a clause he had inserted that gave him approval of the final script. The producer said he wouldn't chance spending hundreds of thousands on spec with the possibility the guy wouldn't approve. So I decided to write the thing myself. But while I'm still reading "How To Write A Sceenplay In 21 Days" my option expired and the guy sold his story to Universal. And now I got NOTHIN'! (Well, I got you guys.)

I can only write to the music of Gloria Estefan. Well, there, I said it.

Ellum--Your heartbreaking story, curiously, does make me feel much better. Thank you.

I had 200 hours invested in another similiar, seemingly obscure subject that also ended similiarly.

I used to be in real estate. Commonly, a property could be on the market and ignored for months--even years--and then multiple offers would come in simultaneously to sell it. Unexplainable.

It probably, though, means that the screenplay we are each working on right now is also being worked on, right now, by another.

It should encourage us all to get on with our dreams. The opportunities are endless. But we have to get it done.

Hi Miriam-- I really like Sting, too. And Creed and Matchbox Twenty. I buy all their albums. However, I only listen to Gloria Estefan. I'm a big fan.

Let me tell you a story. (I shared this once before and am only repeating it because many of you said that you were very moved by it.)

I was driving across the Monroe Street Bridge one morning when I saw a disheveled old man run in front of my car and begin climbing over the short railing protecting pedestrians from a 200 foot fall to the river below. I should mention that Spokane has a white water river cutting right through the middle of our town. You'd think that the founding fathers would have committed the town to one side of the river or the other, but noooo--they built the damn thing right square in the middle! They must have been morons.

Regardless, I slammed on my brakes and ran to the man (we're built that way in Spokane--we care) who had now climbed over the railing and was preparing to jump.

You know what? I can't finish this thing--it's just coming off too treakley and self-serving. Just know that it had a lot to do with Gloria Estefan and how inspiring I find her. If anyone else remembers the rest and wants to share it, that's fine. But I'm done.

Richard, I haven't actually deified her. That would be wrong. She is used by many psychologists as a litmus test for sexual orientation. The men who really like her are very hetero (if possible, even to a fault). Those who are less appreciative are...well, how can I say this delicately...somewhat suspect. ("Not that there is anything wrong with that".) But hey--to each his own, I say.

Greg--I know this is contrary to other opinions but I don't follow up. We often agressively pursue procos, agents, and managers under the assumption that we're the needy ones and they are the ones with all the power. But the fact is, some of these people have never made a deal. And most of the others are only hanging in by the skin of their teeth. And have you seen how many there are of those people out there? I think there's as many of them as there is us! Frank Scott ("Get Shorty", "Out of Sight", et al) said that if we're really good writers with really good scripts the industry will find us. And I don't think that there is much that we can do, beyond that, to expedite the process. Maybe I'll someday change my mind, but when they don't get back to me I don't feel inclined to get back to them. Why reward them with our show of desperation. We aren't going to make a deal with them anyway. And they've proven to be bad business people for not having gotten back to us, if even to reject our script. There's too many other fish in the sea. So, screw 'em.

I'll amend my vitiperate opinion on this point; Although I have chosen not to follow up with WSN prospects (because I think their silence tells all)I don't consider those contacts necessarily bad business people, because that process doesn't call for them to get back with us, unless they're interested.

Vince--You've listed The Texas Institute as one of the half dozen most important contests and I agree. I would encourage anyone who is looking for an early Spring contest to consider it.

The TFI report card score is one of the two highest of the hundred and some that are listed. They have great judges, and excellent recognition, but their real forte is the multi-paged notes that they provide the contestants.

They're taking applications in Feb. thru early April this year.

Mary Kay! I thought you were talking about locking your dog out when your having sex because he'd be jealous. because I do do that. (I'm not worried so much about the jelousy part--I'm more worried about him critiqing me). But I really do that! My fish goes out too.

Alright, alright! I'll tell the end of the story. So, I run across the traffic to get to the guy clinging to the railing of the bridge. "Don't jump", I plead with him. "Think what God would want you to do". "I don't believe in God!" he says. "Then think what your family would want you to do". He says, "I don't have a family," "Then think what Gloria Estefan would want." "Who is Gloria Estefan"? he demands. "Jump you bastard! Jump"! (Well, I'm only one man. I do the best I can.)

I share all in all of the thoughts expresed here. Those brave people and the experiments they were part of were to utimately help all of mankind-yet so many of misguided miscreants of backward countries are happy in our pain. It's so sad.

Hi Vince--I'm struggling with the same decision on whether I'm going to participate in this contest. I participated a couple or three years ago and it was terribly run. They were several months late in announcing winners, missing one published deadline after another. They also did something kind of funny. They called for three SASE's to send confirmations, etc. Over time I received two of them, but the third didn't arrive for nearly a year--and when it did only contained advertising for the following year's contest! What if every merchant, with every sale, required that of the purchaser? Every hamburger eaten--every slurpee sold. It boggles the mind! (I could afford the 33 cents, I was just suprised they couldn't.) I too, would like to know what others think, before I decide. Thanks

His name's Ellum? I thought he said "Vincent"?

You're right D.G. We shouldn't have built those damn skyscrapers so high. We were really asking for.

Allen--I'm not that fond of the entire breed myself. But, still--there isn't even one politician in this country that has noble intentions. Not one solitary person? Is that possible???

Is that equally so about cops?...and judges?...and salesman, and pipefitters and mothers and screenwriters and wives? Damn it. We're screwed.

Canada spends less per capita on national defence than all but two nations in the world! Not because a benign nation does not need to protect her citizens in this dangerous world, but because The United States of America is protecting her citizens for her. Canadian troops can't even arrive to battle without catching a ride in U.S. Air Force planes. Canada can be above all this turmoil, because we afford her to be. (Estonia could otherwise come over and kick her ass.)

Marleine, Wow! Thanks

P.S.--Steven, I'm sorry about making offensive statement about your country. It wasn't the point I was trying to make and I'm sorry I said any of it. It was Paula's fault.

I have a great respect for Canada and have many Canadian friends. In fact, all my friends are Canadian. (Truth be told I'm also want to make this claim about gays, Catholics, Hispanics, women, or any other group that I inadvertantly insult.)

And I don't realy know how you guys would come out if you took on Estonia. I don't know a damn thing about Estonia.

Jay

I'll keep a good thought for you, Gil.

I've been a member here for a number of years and, I think everyone can agree, have always appealed for civility and tolerence when I sometimes see it lacking.

Let's, therefore, end this silly bantering. I'll make some judgement calls on who is right and who is wrong, and then that should be the end of it. Agreed?

Paula---wrong

Steven--wrong

Allen---wrong

D.G.----wrong (I'm sorry)

Richard-wrong (rent the move "A Beautiful Mind" and then re-read your last posting. It might help.)

Marleine-correct

Ron------correct

Peter----correct

Bob------correct

Was Marcel in this mix? Let's just say wrong there, too, just in case.

Oh yeah...and Craig---correcto-mondo

It doesn't matter what anyone says here, or anywhere. The war will take place in the next two weeks.

And then Saddam's boys will be hammered into spit in under a week.

The U.S. will suffer very few casualties.

The Iraqis will shower their liberators with affection.

100 tons of chemicals and denied munitions will be discovered.

Iraqi scientists will come forth and tell of the threats against their families.

France and Germany will try to weasel their way back into an international presence.

Most of the anti-war (although let's be honest; "anti-establishment, anti-American) protesters will slink back into silence.

But, inexplicably, some WON'T slink back into silence.

And Alex Baldwin,(inexplicably)still won't leave this country as promised.

Hi Veena--Welcome to Moviebytes. I read your bio--we're honored to have you join us. Jay

Hey Steve! Welcome back. I hope you hang around again. I've been trying to hold up your end in your absence, and I think everyone here will agree I've done a pretty good job of it, all in all.

Although technically I'm not a trained psycho-therapist, I have been dealing here with a lot of paranoids, manic-depressives, pre-psychotics, and, frankly, more than one cross-dresser. I can use some help.

Speaking of deeply disturbed people, I was interviewed for an A&E program that will be aired 10 o clock tonight on their 'City Confidential" series, concerning a famous Spokane psychopath who had been my lifelong friend. (It's amazing how the uninformed believe that a psychopath like Saddam can be cajoled or reasoned with.)

TFI gives multipage notes on your script that is as detailed as those given by the script doctors that charge hundreds of dollars. The Moviebytes report card section shows the high regard prior participants have for this contest, with maybe only Nichol ranking as high. With 35 contests under my belt TFI is the best experience I've had. If you want to find ways to improve your script this is the contest I'd recommend.

The French are wimps and moral cowards. A commentator said recently that if Europe's fate had been in the hands of France rather than America these past generations the whole lot today would be speaking German or Russian. I was in the United States Marines and during my "Mediteranean Tour" before landing in Viet Nam I had the chance to see the French and other NATO forces in action during a joint training exercise. The British were the only one of the Europeans that were really professionals. Most of these countries troops were a slovenly, slouching gaggle who seemed to not know why they were there. And the French were the worst; little sallow, scrawny guys who seemed especially startled by sharp noises. They were all like little girly-boys. (I don't mean in sexual preference, I mean in the way they walked. And the way they sat. It was disturbing.) They were supplied little bottles of Cognac in all their field rations! Yeah, they were really ready to defend the Free World! No wonder they rolled over like ten dollar crack whores when they heard the first sounds of World War Two. America and Britain (along with, again, the wonderful and tough Aussies) will again be required to carry everybody's water in this fight. Just like we always have. (Does Bosnia ring a recent bell?)

Hi Paul, I appreciate what you're saying but historians are now showing evidence that the French Resistance was primarily a myth that we allowed them. They were primarily collaborators and their active cooperation with the Nazis caused the deaths of most of French Jews.

They quit the fight before thirty days because they didn't want any harm to come to Paris. But London suffered months of pounding and it only made the British more resolute. They are two entirely different breeds of human beings. God bless the British.

"...the belief that popular resistance to the German occupation was general, effective, and necessary became accepted as an article of faith...In fact, the myth of the military effectiveness of the French Resistance was precisely that--a myth!...In the end, the Resistnace served as a political monument for preparing the assumtion of power by Charles de Gaulle." Quoted from "The Myth of the French Resistance" MHQ: The Quarterly Journal of Military History 10, (Winter 1998: pages 99-107)

I've read her bio; she's a retired teacher of literature. And I noted in a posting that she is in her 90's. If we run the numbers that means she was already retired or at least well into her career before maybe any of us had even scrawled our first ABC's with a crayon.

Hence, I believe she should be officially be titled as the Matriarch of MovieBytes and receive a special dispensation, allowing her any conduct she so chooses. There is too much to learn from the lady to allow ruffled feelings to interfere.(imho)

(I also think a certain license might be allowed me--some of the scoldings I've received here should only be directed to somebody with less delicate feelings.)

MARCEL!!?? Why does HE get the blessing? Hey, it was my idea. And I get NOTHING? Okay, that does it--I'm removing my recomendation for the dispensation.

(P.S.-I'm only joking. The dispensation is still on.) Jay

Veena-- What a wonderful thing to wish for somebody! I will take that as a blessing and tape it to my computer. Thank you.

Thomas-- Most papers and studies on the French "Resistance" since the '70's largely deny there was much of any organized resistance until the tide turned against the Germans in 1944, and then only isolated resistance thereafter.

These papers and books are primarily by French historians, and are so prominent that anyone who actually researches the subject would have a hard time concluding differently.

And many of the most famous of the French resistance heros have been debunked as having been pure charlatans-- or worse.

That includes their famous writer of "The Human Condition"(whatever the hell his name is), Charles Chevalier(sp), and most famous; Raymond and Lucy Aubrac, of whom books and movies have been made--until, of course, it was discovered that they were most likely agents for the Nazis, and caused great harm to the few resistant fighters that actually existed.

That's not to mean that they had no heros. It's just they had very few of their own--their real heros were the 150,000 Americans, and several thousand other allies, that died over there saving their skinny frog asses.

" The French lost their right to have an opinion on foreign affairs years ago." Andy Rooney--"60 Minutes" commentary--four hours ago.

...and now to my friend Steven C., Yes, if New Zealand had caused the deaths levied against Iraq beginning with the Iranian War (pushing one million and counting) and if the New Zealanders were committing the atrocities against mankind as the Iraqis--gassing even woman and children(did you see those pictures? They were in all the papers and on T.V.) and "torturing children in front of their parents" (don't you believe Powell?), and possibly threatening the lives of tens of thousand--maybe even millions of more innocents,(and, especially American innocents), then yes, I'm afraid we'd have to go over there and stop them New Zealanders into oblivion.

"stop" meant "stomp". (I feel like a total fool!)

P.S.--Steven C. I've been reserching Estonia since we last discussed it. Do NOT let your people screw with them! Granted, they're a tiny country (I can't even find them on a map--I think they must just move around) but they spend seven times more on their national defence than does Canada! They're probably a bunch of assholes, but the fight might not be even close. Don't worry though. We got your back, bro!

Thomas-- Hey, I'll have to get back with you on this. I may have misjudged the amount of alchohol I could drink while calling on memory.

For instance, when I listed the French Resistance heros that have recently been disclosed as fakes, I included "George Chevalier(sp)"

What I've done (this will kill you!) is meld the names of Maurice Chevalier(sp)--the famous French singer and actor of that generation--whom I meant, with George Chavalo--the rugged French-Canadian fighter who battled Ali twice! What could I have been thinking!?

I'll research my notes (that is, if I have notes.) It may well be that I meant Eritrea, rather than Estonia.

(In the meantime warn the Canadians against any beef with Estonia until I get his sorted out!)

I'd also like to say that if I have posted anything that could have been construed to being disrespectful or hurtful to the French, even in the smallest way, then I deeply apologize. It certainly has not been my intent.

I'd also like to say that if I have posted anything that could have been construed to being disrespectful or hurtful to the French, even in the smallest way, then I deeply apologize. It certainly has not been my intent.

Has anyone had dealings with Dror Soref or his partner Norm Navininsky? They've invited me to give them a 15 minute pitch over the phone tomorrow afternoon.

I have three projects that I could pitch (although only one is completed the other two couldn't be ready until mid summer. Should I dare to prepare three 5 min. pitches, or should I roll the dice and have a 15 minute pitch for my completed script?

I'm sure they contacted me with the intention I pitch the script that I've got out in the market. But I think my other two that I'm working on may be more marketable.

I've never pitched before. Any other advice you can offer me I would appreciate. Thanks---Jay

Thomas, I'm back. And boy is my face red! It seems that as I was holding the sheet listing each country's military budget, my thumb was inadvertantly covering several zeros in Canada's figure. That makes a BIG difference!

However, before we can know truly how a set-to between Estonia and Canada would turn out I still need to look at more information.

For instance: Who gets home field advantage; i.e. will Estonia press the fight on Canada's soil, or will Canada take the fight to them. (And if so, will the Canadians require our transportation?)

Secondly, will the Royal Mounties help? And if so, will they be armed?

And lastly; Will the French Quebec side of Canada be part of this? I don't want to say anything indelicate here but it would my recommendation that they not.

If you want to know my reasons about the Quebecians (is that the correct term?) please contact me off-line. I have some stong concerns about this but I'm more concerned with others feelings, (if you get my drift).

If you would pose these questions to a knowlegable Canadian and get back to me, I think we can finally put this thing to rest. (I have several Canadian friends of my own but they won't talk to me anymore.)

(Marcel! Forgodsake don't say anything about the French!!!!! I just made up to the little snail-suckers and I don't want any more conflicts.)

Thank you both very much for your advice. It really helped me. Jay

Thomas--thank you for helping me work through my problems with the Estonia issue. And I think you're quite right about Canada's chances against such people.

I think I'll run some figures on East Timor now. Just to be safe.

By the way, did you all hear what that Frog-sucking Cheric said (in the same fart speech Ron reported on) about war? "War is ALWAYS the worst solution."

So he DOESN"T appreciate the sacrifice of the 150,000 Americans and tens of thousands of others that died on French soil saving he and his people from Nazi slavery, huh? In hindsight he would probably would have preferred we had negotiated with Hitler.

War is often the most moral of choices. Judiciously used it saves far more heartache to this saddened planet than it causes.

Now, think very carefully before you give me some knee-jerk outrage. Think on Hitler, and Stalin, and Mao, and Tojo, and Pot Pot and Idi Amin, and on and on.

The greatest of sins against mankind is when good people waiver and wring their hands and wave stop-the-war signs, instead of charging off to stop the bad guys.

"Pop Pop"? I typed Pol Pot.

This is just another case of Frederick reordering my spelling to play me the fool! Why must you pursue this maniacal obsession against me Frederick? I've posed the question to you before, but I must again; Is it because I'm Armenian?

Mary Kay! "J.F.K."? "The Hurricane"? ahhh..."Birth of a Nation????"

First we lose Ellum. And then G. Hurd. And now Venna!? Who the hell is pissing these people of?

correction: "...off?"

(I tried the other spelling but it just wasn't working.)

I was solicited by Brian of this management company months ago, shortly after the Nichol results were announced.

Today I received a polite pass on my script. This was my reply:

"No offense, Brian, but I think it was Fall going into Winter when you solicited me, and now it's Winter going into Spring.

I think after a couple of seasons went by I understood you weren't interested in representing me. (But, after a couple of seasons went by I certainly couldn't have chosen you either.)"

And I couldn't have. Why do business with people who exhibit such poor sevice? Can you imagine the frustration one would go through getting just a simple call returned?

I don't know how it turned out that we are expected to blithly suffer these indignities as a part of doing business with Hollywood, but I'm not willing to. Ever.

Maybe I'm not hungry enough, but I'm going to concentrate on writing the best script I can, and not worry too much about marketing. And if the time comes that I have a saleable product I'm going to expect to be treated with at least some modicom of professional courtesy, or I'm not going to cooperate.

Screw em'! At least I'll have you guys.

I just read my last line. God help me, I AM screwed, aren't I?

That's a good point, Mark. I may have been a bit precipitant. But they contacted me (and maybe the other 300-400 that had advanced at Nichol) and said they'd get back to me in a month. They shouldn't have solicited more scripts if they were running that far behind. Bad business. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't have sent that e-mail if I had had your counsel first.

Thanks

I saddens me to report that Yossarian (a sobrequet inspired from a character from Tolstoy's "Anna Karinena",if memory serves) is failing in health and not expected to recover.

He has been unable to participate with his friends here at MovieBytes for now over ten months due to an unfortunate accident with a yak--the third time he had been disabled by this same animal in as many months. (We can only hope somebody has the good sense to put that beast down if it ever returns again!)

His friends on this board will remember him as the constant voice of reason during some of our most agitated discussions. His well grounded thinking and good will to all will be missed.

I'm dropping everything to rush to his side. However Athol,Idaho doesn't get regular bus service so I won't be leaving until Wednesday.

If friends here would like me to pass on to him any specific good wishes I would be very happy to do so.

Jay

Thank you, Paul. I'm sure that will mean a lot to him.

Jay

Thak you Warren for your kind thoughts.

I was just thinking of some of his helpful postings. Does anyone remember his rant about Guatamaulans? Why Gauatamalians and for what purpose maybe we'll never know. But he did seem genuinely frightened by Guatamalians, didn't he? I remember him saying that thoughts about them often left him quaking under his sheets! (And now I'm wondering if he was speaking metaphorically. I'll have to ask him on these things.)

Front lines?... but ...wait a minute! You weren't with Iraq were you??!!

Hi Shakila-- Welcome to MovieBytes.

I'm sruggling with the same questions and problems you're having, so I appreciate all the good advice that's been offered here, as always.

I sometimes am slowed by my tendency to be a perfectionist, and maybe that's nagging at you too--the concern that it's not coming out good enough.

And then I remember that Hemmingway said that "all first drafts are sh*t".

Nobody will ever have to see our first drafts, so we shouldn't be afraid for them to be comically horrible.

Still...it's hard--but if this was to be easy, then everyone would be doing it.

Good luck, Jay

I've received several e-mails correcting me as to the source where "Iam" lifted his name of Yossarian.

The claims range from "the second gravedigger" in Hamlet to "the black guy" in Pulp Fiction.

No. It was Anna Karanina.

Let's think of happier thoughts.

For instance,does anybody remember when Ashley Moye offered to have sex with this strange and terribly lonely man? We were happy for him finally, until he mistakenly got off the plane at Newark, Ohio instead of Newark, New Jersey. I guess it just wasn't to be.

On the other hand, Ashley wasn't the type of woman a stranger might want to take the chance falling asleep next to!! (If you know what I mean).

I often tried to give him solace with that, but it didn't always help. And now he's going to be dead anyway! Damnit.

Anyway, I'm leaving for Athol Wednesday morning. I'm sure he'd like to hear from any of you. I'll take your messages of comfort with me. (Please don't talk to about him recovering or miracle healings or anything like that, because it isn't going to happen. He's already almost dead).

Jay

I've received several e-mails correcting me as to the source where "Iam" lifted his name of Yossarian.

The claims range from "the second gravedigger" in Hamlet to "the black guy" in Pulp Fiction.

No. It was Anna Karanina.

Let's think of happier thoughts.

For instance,does anybody remember when Ashley Moye offered to have sex with this strange and terribly lonely man? We were happy for him finally, until he mistakenly got off the plane at Newark, Ohio instead of Newark, New Jersey. I guess it just wasn't to be.

On the other hand, Ashley wasn't the type of woman a stranger might want to take the chance falling asleep next to!! (If you know what I mean).

I often tried to give him solace with that, but it didn't always help. And now he's going to be dead anyway! Damnit.

Anyway, I'm leaving for Athol Wednesday morning. I'm sure he'd like to hear from any of you. I'll take your messages of comfort with me. (Please don't talk to about him recovering or miracle healings or anything like that, because it isn't going to happen. He's already almost dead).

Jay

Shit--now I'm screwed! I think if they ever bring up that rude e-mail I sent them I'll deny having sent it. I don't know what else I can do.

Steven--Thank you for your touching sentiments. I'm going to print it out and take it with me. I'm sure it will bring some comfort to him.

I was just remininscing on how Yossarian and I became friends. It may have been when we discovered that I was pretending to be Armenian at the same time he was pretending to be Asyrian. Possibly it was something else.

I should be arriving in Athol, Idaho in the early afternoon of Wednesday. I don't know if the Athols have public transportation. If not I'll just take off on foot and see if I can do any good. Wish me luck.

Jay

I knew this guy who was the toughest guy in town when he was still a kid. And his reputation was that for all the scrapes he got into nobody had ever managed to even land a punch.

Here was the secret he shared with me; Antime, he told me, some other tough walked up to him and said he was going to kick my friends butt, my friend would start punching before even the word "kick" got completely out of the guy's mouth. And he would knock the guy out.

This is the responsibility that America has to protect her citizens (my family.) God bless America

P.S.--my friend was real. His name was Kirk Barrow. Went on to be ranked seventh in the light-heavyweight division. I think maybe President Bush must have been a fight fan--learned the secret:)

Well, obviously my peccadllos are not advancing my screenwriting career. But I take solace in the words of Hank Williams; "Don't worry about it--it's not going to work out anyway."

Rick--You already went through this struggle and moral equivication with the Vichy French and Nazis, didn't you? But you came out all right in the end. And you will on this, too. Because these Muslims and the Nazis are the same--just different accents.

(You uttered what is still my favorite line in films; "I was misled." Still apropos in a different context.)

Damnit, I think we said too much, and now Rick's gone, too.

Well, I'm leaving in just a few hours. I'm troubled by what I will find but I'm comforted by something Yossarian always quoted from D. G.:

"...Karma... I'm inevitable YOU are too WE all happen to be us GOT PIMPLE"

He didn't have the slightest idea what D.G. was saying, but he just felt it must be something nice.

Well, goodbye. I'm off to Athol.

Your friend, Jay

Things are Not going as well as hoped. I only have moments to get back to the task at hand--thanks to you all for caring. Maybe it can make a difference.

If there is a God in heaven I should be returning to Spokane on March 17th. If not it could be just about anytime.

Hey Bob Z.--welcome back! (Or as you possibly prefer: Bob "Chief White Half-Oat" Z. Actually, I don't have the resource book before me to verify if I got that quite right.)

Jay

I just got back

(sorry--a problem with my computer posting)

My bus dropped my in Athol the late morning of the 26th. Nothing went as planned. I had trouble finding my way around the place, and he Athols were NO help!

I couldn't find Yossarian and after a couple of days it seemed fruitless to keep trying, so I went to the Grand Cayman island instead.

There is much I need to tell you but I must run--my ocelot is out again and is causing terrible damage down the street!

I'm hoping that maybe others may want to join me when if I try again to find our friend, (if it's not already too late.) I'm thinking now that maybe it wasn't Athol. Maybe it was Akron or...shit--gotta go!!

Jay

NEWS RELESE; "17 Iraqis surrendered a full six hours before the war."

Is it actually possible the Iraqis are bigger pusses than the French!? (This is going to be even easier than I thought).

Slam bam good bye Saddam.

I've extolled my appreciation for this excellent contest many times in the past--I can't more highly recommend it.

(And see the amazing results in the "report card" section of this site!)

NEWS RELEASE; "Iraqi troops twice attempt to surrender to unmanned U.S. drones".

These people are an embarrassment to anyone who ever wore a uniform-- excluding, of course, the French.

My only sympathies go to the women and children.





My only sympathy goes to the Iraqi women and children. But what are these guys tell their families

(Sorry, I thought I had edited out that last line, but now I'll complete it.)

I wondered what these cowards will tell their families when this is over. And thousands more of these types will be surrendering before they're in direct harms way. What will they dare tell their grandchildren about this thirty years from now?

I have no sympathy left for anyone but the woman and children. The memories are too fresh of the Muslim glee at our suffering on 9/11 for me to care about any Arab man who has the audacity to carry a rifle in an army antipathetic to America.

LOL!!!

NEWS RELEASE: "4000 Iraqi soldiers surrender to U.S. Marines."

They don't any problem subjegating their women, but they do seem to have problems standing up to our American boys.

I absolutely can't believe the horrific insensitivity and lack of compassion expressed by all the anti-war (anti-American)voices, especially since the war began. Is there no sense of decency or morality left in their selfish hearts?

And for any here who are tempted to belong to those fashionable few, please pick up the current Sports Illustrated on our newsstand this coming week.

Why Sports Illustrated? I don't want to spoil the suprise. But I couldn't get through the article--right now I feel like vomiting.

God bless America, and God save the Queen!

Correction; 8000 Iraqi troops surrendered--their 51st Division.

I misunderstood how many comprised one of their divisions.

NEWS RELEASE: 15 men from the 101st Airborne have been injured in a grenade attack by a fellow soldier. The sabatuer has been tentatively identified as a Muslim-American."

"Muslim-American?" That's a countradiction in terms. The real threat to America is a religion, not a specific country or terrorist group. (Oh wait!...was I politically insensitive? I'm sorry.)

I'm with Steven on our developing an alternate source of power.

I'm a board member of an environmental organization that has had national impact on certain air quality standards.

I hadn't voted for George W. and wasn't a conservative Republican until 9/11. (of course that's one defination of a conservative--a liberal that's been mugged!) So I'm a rare breed; a "tree-hugging" conservative.

If we weren't reliant on middle east oil we could walk away from the bunch of them. It makes me feel unclean everytime I fill up my gas tank.

Best, Jay

Jay

Roman Polanski wins best director--a wanted pedophile. (I may be just too clean living to ever make it in Hollywood. These people never cease to amaze me.)

Just general rantings:

*Peace activists are now committing treason. After the North Vietnamese suffered catastrophic losses in the 1968 Tet Offensive the enemy was ready to negotiate-until they became encouraged by the anti-war activists in this country. Five more years of war, 30,000 more dead American boys. It's time for the demonstators in this country to shut up--or move to another country they'd be happier living in.

*This is one of the most lopsided victories in the history of warfare and yet much of the press talks about the "unexpected resistance" and "mounting U.S. casualties"! Are they insane? It's now one week into the war and there have been only 19 Americans killed in action--and we now control 75% of the country! In one bad night in '69 my Marine rifle company of 180 guys suffered nearly twice those losses--and we kicked their asses that night! Hey, war is dangerous. That's why they call it war;)

*Who the hell is that piece of sh*t Michael Moore? Is he even an American? It's bad enough having to put up with our own assholes--but we shouldn't have to put up with others. Am I right?--I think the guy's a Canadian. Talk bout biting the hand that feeds you. And after his insulting speech the cameras focused on Salma Hayek inanely cheering him. She's not a American! Wheel your ass back to where you came from, Salma! She's half middle-eastern, which part of her problem with America. (I'm embarressed now for having lusted after her all those times. I'm going to try to stop.)

*When this is over, let's all take a hard look at who our real friends were; Britain, Spain, Australia, Poland. And lets remember who wasn't. (Montreal crowds booed the American anthem during a hockey game last week. I didn't like that.)

Sorry, I guess he just looked Canadian to me. He has the John Candyish thing going for himself, except witout the grooming.

And you're right; dissent is American. We had dissenters in the streets against our war to free the slaves, too.

Steven---if my reference to the late, great John Candy somehow led you to believe in even the very slightest way that I was casting aspersions on your country then I'm deeply sorry. John Candy was a god to me.

Steven--Before I screamed myself to sleep last night it occurred to me that possibly you have not been exposed to the best of John Candy.

Rent "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" and don't think you'll need to feel as defensive on te subject. It was made in 1988 and is a John Hughes classic, also starring Steve Marten.

Candy was great and you have nothing to be mad about. (All Canadians can't be svelte like Shania Twain, right?)

Jay

Steve--I'm sorry but I can't get past this egregious attack of yours on John Candy.

If you found it necessary at all, why in hell didn't you start your own thread? Why here? There's a war going on, Steve--American and British troops are putting their lives on the line so you and your compatriots can continue to sleep safely at night, and you take exception to John Candy??

And would it be appropriate in any case? He's DEAD, forgodsake, Steve! He can't defend himself against your rants. How would you like it? Chill, dude!

P.S. Steve--Our poor aren't starving in the streets. The war on poverty ended hunger in America over 30 years go (except for the negligent parent who may be addled by drugs or alchoho or mental illness.)

Our poor are overfed--they are mostly FAT. Because of all of the overlapping government programs the poor are provided food asistance that provides too many calories.

Tune into Jerry Springer sometime--you'll see what the American poor look like. Our poor will step on the scales against any other poor in the world, and kick their ass!

Steven--I accept your apology in behalf of the late, great John Candy. Maybe you were just having a bad day--but I believe it was your reference to him not being as svelte as Shania Twain that had many of us most concerned.

May I also understand that this apology applies to your country's abysmal attitude and outragious statements against my country? (It would please John Candy.)

"People sleep peacefully at night only because rough men (Americans and Britons) stand ready to do violence on their behalf."--John Candy

I think everything D.G. says about my country is so incredibly wrong and so incredibly offensive, and yet I absolutely can't help but admire the guy. (Hey, maybe it's the Stockholm Syndrome and I'm identifing with my abuser!).Anyway, I'm a big fan. He gets a pass. Anybody else with these sentiments--get the f*ck out of my country.

Thanks, Steve, for posting Brody's list. I think it's a good reminder and is helpful, though I think we all recognize that it's still just a guideline.

The only script I've actually ever completed (I'll be frank; I have no work ethic and bring very little to the table) violates the very first rule: Don't start with an interior scene.

If I had known Brody's "rule #1" maybe I wouldn't have done it. And if I ever have the energy to do another rewrite maybe I'll consider a change.

The rule about voice overs is universal--yet I personally usually like them when I watch a movie.

One of my favorite movies--and it starts with a voice over--is "The Great Gatsby", starring Robert Redford and Mia Farrow, back in the 70's. It was a movie that was never appreciated (except maybe by me.)

Does anybody remember seeing it? If so, did you remember the opening voice over? I thought it worked well in that one.

P.S.--Many have e-mailed concerning my quote: "People sleep peacefully at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence."

I credited it to the late, great John Candy, yet the others insist, belongs to the late, great George Orwell.

I'm mortified! I must have been misled. Maybe Steve is right--maybe John Candy was an asshole after all!.

Jay

Now that I've won all of you over as my disciples I need to point out that the whole John Candy references was just foolishness on my part. Steve never insulted John Candy--and who cares if he did--and why would it be relevant--and no, I didn't believe Candy really made the Orwell statement--and...ah...shit--I lost my train of thought. I'll have to get back to you on it.

On another matter, I ran into a gaggle of anti-war (anti-American) protesters this afternoon, and must say that they don't groom or dress, or even walk as well as the more main line folks. What the hell is that all about?

If I was ahead of that march I would have sent them all home to dress up like regular folk. They can't be effective, looking defective!

It reminds me of recent trip to Miami. I came across a panhandler and he had his sign upside down. Six blocks later I was troubled by it so much that I retraced my steps, found the guy, and turned his sign right-side up. He wasn't going to make any like that!

Anyway, it was like those protesters. (Maybe I should help the dumb bastards out.)

Connie--A guy flying an Iraqi flag?! Wow. He'd have to be the toughest guy in town to pull that off here in Spokane. He'd run into a lot of confrontations for every mile driven (that is, if he managed to complete a mile). We live close to the liberal latte crowd of Seattle, but our mores here are closer to that of middle America. Where did this happen? A lot of protestors also waved the Viet Cong flag during Viet Nam War. I think many of these people are acting out problems they had even years before with their parents authority, but they're visiting it now on the rest of us. It would be more becoming if they would seek their help privately from a professional. (imho)

P.S. Michael--Thanks for correcting my quote from Orwell. My misquote suddenly doesn't make as much sense.

Best

Jay

Hey, I thought I was one of your proselytes! I can come and hang out here, can't I?

Ron--you should be a satirical columnist. Very funny stuff!

Your riff titled "French Wars" that can be found on this thread is one of the half-dozen best writings I've seen on Moviebytes in the four years I've been here. World class quality.

Maybe I'll start a thread soon where we list some of our favorite postings. That might be fun. I have a number of other gems I've especially appreciated, from many members still current, and some that have moved on.

Ron--Sorry, I didn't see you had credited that wonderful bit to John Cleese. Whoever this John Cleese character is, he might have a shot at becoming a professional comedian!:) Did you write the "French Wars" posting?

I agree (as does over 70% of our citizens) that America is on the side of the angels on this war matter. I also think that many of the complainers about Bush and America are mostly just angry that communism has collapsed.

D.G--It's not nice to make up history. It could cost you your soul, as it did Oliver Stone! It's not worth it--and it's just not the right thing to do.

Can it be so!? Mary Kay had heard from her weeks ago that she was in failing health--she was in her 90's--but still...!?

She was one of the few always sensible voices on this often chaotic board--I just can't accept this. First we hear of our dear Yossarian, but now Veena? Dear God!--Why must the old always die first??!!! I'm at a loss.

Vincent--I was a finalist in Acclaim last contest and it resulted in my being contacted by a serious Hollywood player.

I've had similar placings in larger contests-(as many of you know, my second act was lifted in it's entirety from "Driving Miss Daisy" and it has really helped!)-and yet most of those contests never resulted in any contacts. Acclaim is a good one and I recommend it

Jay

You know, on a another matter--and I don't want to come off insensitive here-but Veena wrote me the kindest thought, which I took as a blessing, in which she wished that a congregation of muses would sing in praise of my writings that would inspire me to the "one single sentence written well and true", and other stuff, and my question is: if she's dead what happens to my blessing? Is it still on? It doesn't just go away because somebody dies, does it?

I'll be frank here--if I've got to start over from ground zero I'm screwed.

I'm probably not as ambitious as many, but I never plan on living in L.A.

If I sell a script that's great, and I don't mind traveling occasionally to L.A. to accomplish that. But, to live there? Just the thought of living next to some guy like Ed Asner gives me the willies! I couldn't do it.

Hey Marcel-- In the culture of the U.S. Marines there is no such thing as an "ex" Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine.

I'm sure no slight was intended, so I'm also sure no "former" Marine will hunt you down and gut you like a pig for such a silly mistake.

On the other hand maybe you should stay north of the boarder until this all blows over. Just to be sure.

Your friend, (Former) Lance Corporal Williams

P.S.--sometimes my foolishness can be misunderstood. I understand that I just used the term "gut you like a pig". (I don't remember typing that--it's possible that Frederick has again amended one of my postings to discredit me).IF I said that I was only joking. :)

Paul--I realize now that there is a lot of subtext on her posting under "To Continue Or Not", and it was certainly no coincidence she chose that thread. Classy dame! Read it through again carefully and you'll see what I mean.

And Richard---thank you for your encouragement. I'm going to continue on as though nothing has changed and then see what happens.

Peter---The Marines do have "combat engineers".

Their job is to build roads and bridges, eliminate mines, advise commanders on best ground approaches and blow objects up that prevent movement of forces. They also advise on defences for bases. They're a combat arm, and infantry companies have at least some engineers assigned to them.

I know my company in Nam had at least two assigned to us, and they actually patrolled with us in the jungles when we moved in platoon size or larger. They'd blow up enemy bunkers and ordinance we'd come across.

They were also the guys patrolling with the infantry on the roads sweeping for mines.

The way they would have been identified in my day would be something like; Cpl. Joe Blow of 1st Company Engineering Battalion, assigned to Echo Company, Second Battalion, 4th Marines. (Officers were probably with larger groups of their engineers, assigned to larger units.)

The CeeBees are also engineers and construction guys, but sailors, not Marines. And they usually were used by the Corps to build airfields.

Feel free to e-mail me off-line if can be of any help--althogh I'm hardly an expert. A Marine Recruiter might be of help, too. The Marine Corps is very receptive to writers.

Jay

Paul--I meant her subtle insertions of "dead" and "fade out" in an otherwise innocuous posting. (But maybe I'm reading more into that than I should--what do you think?)

Hey Paul--I just understood now what your question was--sorry.

By "change" I meant whether the blessing was still going to carry water or not. I've been working on my "Motorcycle Sluts From Hell" (a contemporary and loosely inspired version of "Little Women") for three years now and I only started making any real progress after I received the blessing. I've missed several Nicholl deadlines and I don't want to miss many more. (Wish me luck!)

BELATED NEWS RELEASE: Two Protestant ministers met to reconcile their differences but tempers flared and one hacked the other to pieces with a meat cleaver." Oh, wait wait wait!--that wasn't "Protestant ministers"--it was "Muslim clerics". My mistake. (Religion of peace my ass.)

I chose not to do this one because it has become quite large, but doesn't seem to carry much weight. And their grades aren't bad, until you compare them to the best of the big contests (Nicholl) or the best of the small (TFI). Those are among the few I'm doing this year.

D.G. and I aren't going to agree on this. I trust my government--he doesn't. I believe some individuals and cultures are inheritantly evil-- he doesn't. He believes that non-violent people can persuade the violent people--I don't.

On the otherhand, his non-violent philosophy assures me that he wouldn't cave in my head if we crossed paths in a dark alley. And I can't say that would be true of all the citizens I might come across in a dark night.

So I ain't bashing him. But I'm not changing my mind.

Thank you both. Maybe there is some good news in the midst of this tragedy!

Jay

NEWS RELEASE: "Anti-war advocates attack Athen police with Molitov cocktails." ( It seems there's nothing more dangerous than pissed off pacifists!)

The jarhead jokes don't offend me--I never wanted to be a Marine in the first place.

I was joining the Army. The doctor had us strip naked and then told us to bend over and spread our cheeks. I bent over and then pulled on the cheeks of my face as instructed. The doc says, "Son, you're going to the Marines!" I still don't get it.

I don't want to talk about that physical anymore! I'm trying to get past it--it's just too troubling.

But, Marcel, check out "NewsMax.Com" It's an excellent info site and has the 52 Iraqi bad guy cards.

Thanks, and I don't mean to be negative about this, but I have people wishing me to "have a good day" several times a day, and it seldom works out.

I'm just assuming Veena's blessing carries more weight, but so far I'm still stuck on page 40.

I'm with Robert--I'd call DeepFeedback.com if my script needed work (if you know what I mean.) I'm sending him my next one.

Robert worked with me on my script "Semper Fi". (Which should definately NOT be held against him.)

He gave me line-by-line help me and gave me suggestions to some of my plot and structual problems. Even discovered typo and mispellings.

And he noted that, had I not brought in my margins and repeated pages 23 through 46, my script would only print out to page 64. (Hence why I used the second act of "Driving Miss Daisy" to flesh out my script--although, in truth, I don't know if that would have been his first choice, had he known).

He's my guy though,when I figure out how to finish this one (see my prior reference to "Motorcycle Sluts From Hell".)

I think Saddam's dead and I think the government is pretty sure of it, but just being careful. And I bet it will be announced officially soon. (Enjoy hell, Saddam.)

There's a new tape of Saddam released today by some Arab country (is there an Arab country called "Boogie Woogie" or some damn thing like that?), purporting he's still alive.

Hey, that ain't Saddam. It was more like a mini-Saddam. He was just as fat, but just littler all around. Way littler. Looks like he's walking in a trench--even with lifts this guy wouldn't come to the Saddams chin. He's like a Saddam munchkin. Like a troll that kind of looks like Saddam. They must be down to the second-string impersonators now. These Muslims are are sticking together. Come on!

I think the real Saddam is dead, but I wish he wasn't. I think he should swing for his crimes. And I think the Iraqis should have the privilege.

FRENCH PRODUCTS I'm am now doing without:

Allega B.F. Goodrich Michelin Bic Dannon Yogurt Maybelline Lancome Christian Dior Evian Water Hennesey Seagram Car and Driver Magazine Universal Studios!

I wouldn't mind D.G. leaving this thread, but it would be a shame if he left MovieBytes. I think he's a great original, and a real talent. I'd miss the guy.

Thomas! Your above post is as good a writing as I've seen--let alone in a script. A great analogy ,too. I'm looking forward to your progress on this.

Jay

I've only used Moviemagic (the 1998 version.) I chose it because the salesman said it was the easiest--I find it nearly incomprehensible.

And then this happened. I had proof- read my script a dozen times, and then decided on one last tweak--I used a "cheat" feature to reduce my page count by a few. I then sent it off to several Hollywood type and several contests--to stunning non-success.

Then Red Inkworks notifies me of my problem. I had a character say the most disgusting thing,--so absolutely disgusting that I had trouble even typing it (and could never had typed it again)-- and then 20 pages later a sweet, innocent young lady is spouting this same garbage! Leaving, of course, the impression on a quick read that this young thing, or the writer who had congered her, was schizophrenic.

Apparently the screenwriting gods had decided to punish me for my hubris in tricking the readers about my scripts real length. Or maybe MovieMagic has some fatal flaw.

I notified the other contests and Hollywood people but it was way too late. I was out hundreds of dollars and lots of credibility.

I am extremly grateful to Red Inkworks for giving my script such a careful read to discover this.

And I'm very unhappy with MovieMagic.

Jay

I'm sending in my script "Semper Fi" (yes, again), this time WITHOUT using the "page cheat" feature (see thread "Final Draft v.s. Moviemagic")--and this just may be the secret that pushes me over the top, baby!!

So, it's a shame Bryan has already sent in his scripts, but maybe the rest of you should wait for your shot next year.

Hey, I understand Dixie Productions has a fine contest, though. ;)

I was a quarter-finalist also last year, and I got a total of two enquiries. Nothing came of them.

I was also a Chesterfield semi-finalist, and didn't get a call.

But my script isn't very marketable. I think the real secret is to place with a script that is high-concept, and on the low end of the scale to produce. Mine was neither, but in a few months I'm going to start one that hopefully meets those criteria a little better.

Best to all

Sherlock -

Just my 2 cents:

Your big turning event at that 30 minute mark (sometimes even called "The Big Event") is the change to your Hero's direction that sends him into the Second Act.

I think the "non event" you write of is really your "Big Event", if we and your Hero have every reason to believe that he is going to get that promotion. This failure to succeed will have to really pull the rug out from under him and us, and then I think it can work.

Incidentally, this turning point doesn't really have to happen at 30 minutes. In "Rocky" that Big Event was when this ham-and-egg fighter gets an offer out of the blue to fight the Heavyweight Champ, and I don't think that happened nearly as early as 30 pages. And a lot of scripts following a current leaner and shorter style are choosing this turning point to come in under 25 pages.

Best wishes with your writing.

Jay

The Other D.G. -

You know what?--I think it's a great idea. I'm sure it does violate common wisdom, but with spec scripts selling at maybe 1/2 of one percent of those written, this may help separate yours the others.

It's intriguing, and anyway, a producer would likely deal with you on an option basis to see if he could get all the players together, so I think it could work.

Coincidentally, I saw the funniest foreign movie on cable last night (even required sub-titles), in which there was a cameo played by an actress PLAYING "that real ball-buster, Debbie Reynolds". Great little bit!

Jay

I'm saying a prayer for you right now, buddy

I did it--my script is on the way to Nicholl, and T.I.F., Austin, Chesterfield, and Worst Screenpay Ever (just to cover all the bases).

I'm going to consider Disney, too, but I can't find it. Can somebody tell me how it's listed? Thanks

Why does incompetent mean "not competent" but inflammable means "flammable? And how come if you say to a lady she has a nice butt she's often "offended". (Oh, wait--maybe this should be on a different thread.)

Thanks, Frederick.

I see Disney requires the winners to live in L.A. for the year, so maybe I won't do it. Anybody else from elsewhere considering this?

It also says it's intended for the "culturally and ethnically diverse", which could also be a problem for me in that I'm really not that diverse.

Really--doesn't this suggest that if you have an ethnic name, you might have a better shot? I've always claimed I'm Armenian, but I don't know if that's going to fly this time.

To their credit, though, they promise not to judge my sexual orientation. (I'm heterosexual). :<

Http://www.modbee.com/columnists/rowland/story/6538244p-7480366c.html.

I wish him the very best!

Yeah, we've often have to side with bad guys, because they were common enemies to more immediate bad guys. Making an ally of Russia in World War Two is the classic example.

Sometimes we make mistakes. Most of the time we get it right.

By the way, we didn't create the problem. Saddam was already in power when we gave him aid in his war with Iran,-- we couldn't allow Iran to further extend her fundalmentalist Muslim tyranny. That's one of the times we got it right.

I'm amazed when I hear of the productivity of so many here.

Craig Schwartz wrote that in two months he has written one whole script and to halves. I've managed almost nothing in this same time. And I have more time than anyone. (No, I mean it. I have more time than ANYONE!)

Has anyone kept track of how many hours in total a submited script has taken them?

And if Craig is listening in, I would like to know what your writing schedule is. How do you do what you do?

Best,

Flummoxed in Spokane

Let's see...hmmm... Nope, I got nothin' Oh, wait!-- did I mention I ran into Gloria Estefan?? She was at a private party at Bongo's Cuban Cafe in Miami. They let me approach her (apparently the restraining order had expired), and I told her that I was her biggest fan. I then asked her for a hug. She agreed (she is very sweet!) and so I embraced her, and then tried to wrestle her to the floor, but she was able to throw me off. She's very strong for such a small woman!

Anyway, that's all I can think of is going back to Miami. I'm enthralled with the place. (I stayed at the Cordoza!) Is anybody here from Miami?

Jay

Vincent--Wow, great advice! I tried to do another polish on a script this spring and couldn't get past the second page. I guess that means I'm finally finished with it, which is really a relief! Nice to get it behind me so I can concentrate on the next.

Best to all,

Jay

A new post! Great--an opportunity to vent!

I went into this new cafe this morning and the waitress asked me if I would like to try their special--COW'S TONGUE. Can you believe that? Cow's tongue? How could they expect me to eat something that came out of the mouth of an animal!?

(Hey, who can guess what I told her?)

Hi Gil,

I entered their contest a couple of years ago and treated me very good. I really got the impression that these are good guys.

Best of luck.

Paula--No, she didn't slap me. I was her customer, for god's sake! What kind of community do you come from where waitresses go around slapping their customers? I gave her no cause to slap me. Do you know what that would do to a girl's tips here in my town, slapping paying customers?

Oh sure, I've been slapped. Plenty of times. I see an aggressive woman approach I start bobbing and weaving to lesson the damage, but there was certainly no cause for it here!

Granted, my comportment may seem "weird". My costume "strange." Even my decisions to eliminate consonants from my speech "unsettling". And the body noises for some may have been "upsetting",-- but no, she didn't "slap" me, Paula!

Back to my question: "...cow's tongue..." What do you think I responded?

How COULD she expect me to eat something that came out of the mouth of an animal!? I told her to just fry me up a couple of eggs. Yeah, that's what I said.

No, a French cow would have been worse. I knew a French cow once. I think I still have some health consequences from her sticking her tongue in my mouth. Gives me the heebie jeebies even thinking about it.

Okay, okay, I'll send you the damn stamp! :)

Hey, I'll send the the director one, too. Send me your address and they're on the way.

djaywilliams2001@yahoo.com

I agree with everything said here except the notion that Hollywood films are somehow lacking.

Hollywood dominates the world market and if we strive to be something more than just diletants with our screenwriting it is the Hollywood form that we must master.

Not to say there aren't a lot of bad American movies, but nobody puts out more true clunkers than Europe--especially Eastern Europe.

Most of what they produce is not market driven but gets greenlighted because of state subsidies controlled by egg-headed art commissioners. And so the Europeans bypass most of their own films in favor of Hollywood pictures.

Marcel--I just looked at my last post. I didn't mean I would also "send the director" a stamp. I meant I would also "send you the director stamp", if you want it.

Jay

David E.--Yes, I did order the eggs. And I appreciate your attempt to have us focus on a more pertinent subject. Finally an adult has shown up here!

I must think more on your interesting encounter. Even if it takes all day.

Paul--Yeah, she has two six-inch titanium rods supporting her spine. You would think that disadvantage would have been enough to have favored me--but it wasn't to be. This time.

I'll keep you all posted.

Jay

Those people have some good conections. Good luck on it, Gil!

Jay

John--I agree that foreign films are often stronger in the story department.

And according to a study I've seen, people of greater intelligence are usually those who appreciate art films (which are predominantly foreign) and so, because I beleve it will reflect well on me, I always claim that I like them, too.

Here among friends though I must tell the truth. I think much of it is pretentious dreck.

I went to an open art show in Seattle's Pioneer Square. One guy had shellacked a plate of food and nailed it to a wall. And people stood around studying it, as though it had great portent.

After one suspicious art display after another (penises seemed to be a popular theme), I wandered into a room that was off limits; empty except a bare light bulb hanging by a wire.

I stared at it in "appreciation" until I drew a crowd of others, also appreciating the artist"s (eletrician?)statement.

Back outside in the Square there was a crowd looking up three stories at a guy--stark naked and painted blue--standing with his back to a window and to his appreciating crowd of art connoiseurs standing below.

The crowd was discussing what message he was trying to impart through his "art". I think it was just a guy who wanted to show his blue ass.

Anyway, I think these people make up part of the crowd who go to foreign films.

Steinfeld had a funny bit, though. George loved an arty foreign film called "Rochell, Rochell". The catch, though, was that it was about "a young girl blossoming into her sexuality". Now that's the kind of foreign film that maybe I could appreciate!

P.S.--My tone may come off as too dismissive, and I don't really mean to be. Just my peculiar sense of humor.

I know there can be the occasional foreign film that is truly excellent. I've seen a number of them.

My real beef is their "talking heads" syndrome that John eluded to.

They often don't have the money for a lot of locations, action sequences and special effects so they try to off-set those deficiencies by talking. And talking. And talking.

I also have a problem often understanding actors with Irish and Cockney accents. Which isn't their fault but min--but maybe a lot of other people have problems understanding them, too.

Maybe that is something they should consider if they want to be more commercial, at least in the States. (In many cases it may not be just the accents; I think their sound equipment and technicians are not as good.)

IMHO, Jay

I've done everything I can do to keep this board civil and focused on screenwriting. But I'm only one man, Colleen--I could use a little help here!

So here's the deal; I just finished my homage to "Little Women" and it comes to 63 pages!

There's no story here. I've got nothing! It's too long for a short and too short for a feature. And I overwrote the damn thing. On a careful edit I'll be well under 60 pages. On a real careful edit, under 50!

So what the hell's up with Veena's blessing? I was doing better before her meddling, is what I'm thinking!

So my question now is, can I do anything to void this so called "blessing"? If this was some kind of cruel joke by some old lady on her death bed, I am not amused!

Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks.

Spooked in Spokane

Best to you, Paul!

I use Movie Magic (1998 version) and on an earlier thread recounted how this software took a line of dialogue I had one character utter in the first act and inexplicably repeated it in the midst of another character's dialogue two acts later.

That draft went out to a half dozen people before the error was discovered.

I've never contacted Movie Magic about this--someday maybe I will--but I'm watching this thing real carefully right now.

If I were buying Movie Magic again I'd want to talk with someone from their customer services for assurances that this glitch has been remedied.

And if they deny they ever had the problem I'd go elsewhere, because they'd be fibbing.

Best, Jay

Mary Kay--

To locate book rights call the publisher and ask for the "sub-rights" department. And they'll tell you who has ownership.

And please do tell me what the name of this novel is. If it's any good maybe I'd like to take a run at it too. :)

By the way, Mary Kay, by denying there might have ever been a Veena you seem to be making light of my situation.

I have been working on a script for almost 15 months and will edit out to maybe 50 pages! And that was AFTER the "blessing". (A blessing--I think not!) Only a MORON could work on a script that long and come up 60 pages short, so I'm thinking maybe there is something else.

I'm going to get the Gypsies involved in this. One of my good friends was Jack Olsen, who recently passed away. He was a well known writer of true crime books (this is all true, although every thing I've ever said before has been a lie) and wrote "Night of the Grizzlie", Bridge to Chappaqutic" (sp), "Son", "Give a Boy a Gun", "Doc", and many more.

His last book was an account of a Gypsy crime ring in California that was preying on old men and killing them.

This raised the ire of the King of the Gypsies, who happens to live here in Spokane along with several others.(They kind of look like Italians, except they don't seem to respond to any of my Italian phrases, so I don't know. And their women look more like Muslims than Italians so...? But I see that I've digressed.)

Anyway, this Gypsey king put a curse on my dear friend and he died within a year! Olsen even hired a Seattle Gypsy to remove the spell. The guy walked all around the perimeter of Olsen's Bainbridge Island home,doing some hocus pocus. But it didn't take--the bastard! (I'm thinking maybe all these Gypsies are in cahoots.)

So maybe this Spokane Gypsey guy owes me--killing my friend and all. I think I'll sic him on this Veena matter and see what he comes up with. I might mention you to him too, Mary Kay!!!

And you, Connie. I'm giving him your name too.

Oh, alright then. (Too bad though,in a way. I wanted to turn those boys loose on somebody. Hey, maybe Connie will work!)

Hi Vincent--

I agree with Paul, the next big contest coming up is Austin; considered by most as being only second to Nicholl for it's importance. But Chesterfield is shortly after that, and many consider it as the third most prestigious.

Open Door is very well run and I think should be a consideration, but they have two or three contests a year so one can always budget for the following contest if funds are tight.

Screenwriting Expo is contest that is gaining importance and offers some real opportunities. I'm going to take a run at it this year.

Some dark horse candidates to also consider might be WriteMovies and Acclaim, which are coming up soon. I gained important contacts from each of those contests and I can attest to their legitimacy.

In the end your best benefits may come from a choice you've already made; Texas Film Institute (TFI).

They provide real opportunities and contacts for those who advance, but the notes you will be getting back from them will blow you away! No matter how well you do in that contest your script will become even better for your having entered it.

Best of luck in your choices-- Jay

John--I don't know which art show it was in Pioneer Square, but it was the one with guy with the blue ass.

For those who haven't visited Seattle, Pioneer Square is cool. Hey, just about everything about Seattle is cool.

For all the tripe, there has been one foreign film that has really stayed with me. It was about the life of a Bull Terrier (he was the narrator), and his history with one family after another that owned him. A really freaky movie! Has anyone else seen it? The name slips me.

If no one comes up with it I'll look it up. It's one that I would recommend.

P.S.--John, I'm actually from Spokane. For those not in the know, Spokane is just like Seattle. Except for the ocean. And except for the Space Needle and Mount Ranier. And except for the prosperity.

Oh yeah, and except for the RAIN, John--we have no rain. Ever!

Say hi to everybody in Seattle for me. I'm on first name basis with most of them.

best, Jay

Jan--

Yeah, that's it; "Baxter".

I learned a lot about dogs from that film. They "only want to know what [their] job is". It was very dark though. I'm good for maybe one of those a year. Too many in a row and I'd want to let a vein!

Which leads me to my last complaint about foreign films; they are often very pessimistic about life and the world.

Most of the world doesn't have a belief system as our "American Dream"--that a person can create their own destiny.

Most of the world has had too many losing wars (the simpering French come to mind) and too much energy sapping bureaucracy. Their lives seem bleak, their futures seem bleak, and so their artists make bleak films.

Maybe if their government run film boards took a little excercize, maybe some fresh air, and tried to look at the sunny-side of life they could come up with some happier endings for their films. That's what their people desparately need to see--what they want to see--but that's why they turn to American films. (mho)

John--You can throw dark films at me all day but nobody will beat Baxter in the dark department! That dog was not always the best companion, to say the least.

Hey, maybe we should have a Baxter Festival. Everybody interested should find Baxter to rent and then we can compare notes--you'll all be very concerned what's going on in your dog's mind after seeing that one. (And it will probably cause a lot of pets to be put down if that movie ever gains an audience!)

I know very well who Robert Tobin is--I have his book before me; "How to Write High Structure, High Concept Movies".

Dedicated "To my family: Marie, John,..." (Wanted to prove I really have it, Rob.)

This book had been recommended by others on this site. Will be a good group to be apart of--wish I could be there.

So far everything I've written has been a bit on the "low structure, low concept level" level, but I'm expecting a break through with my "Motorcycle Sluts From Hell" (my adaption of the Louisa May Alcot classic of a different name.) The book has helped a lot, Robert!

David E.--Interesting point about directors possibly changing genres.

Wes Craven, the horror master, two years ago directed "Music of the Heart" with Meryl Streep. It was a well done, well received, touchy-feely flick.

Jay

That's great news, Colin. Wish I could be there to see it. Best of luck!

Jay

Well, I'm in--just sent mine off today. Probably bad form to send it on the last day but...

I don't plan to go to Austin unless I am a finalist, so I don't really plan to go to Austin. Not this year with this script. But maybe next year with the next. It's going to be a lot better. (It just has to be!)

I'm sorry Ron. I've thought of you often these weeks. I didn't e-mail you directly maybe because I was afraid it was bad news, but now I'm sorry I didn't.

There's always a chance to whip this thing, so I'll keep a good thoght for you.

And when you're especially bummed out e-mail me anytime, or this board anytime. There's almost always somebody here at MovieBytes to make a human connection with when you need it.

God bless

I had a problem with Benderspink when they took five months to tell me they weren't interested in a script I sent them.

I wouldn't have thought much of it if I had queried them, but that's the catch--I hadn't. They solicited me.

Anyway, I don't know if I'd even want a manager.

A manager is going to charge 15% (some want 20%)of the gross.

You still have to pay 10% to an agent and 5% to the attorney. And then with a big sale, W.G.A. fees and approximately 50% off what's remaining for taxes, and what you have left is maybe 35% net of what you started with.

That's why we read all the time of somebody who made a "low to mid" sale and is still working a Kinko's.

I'd just as soon not play as not get paid. And I sure as hell not going to commit a big chunk of my potential income to people who display bad business practices.

Been there--done it. Life's too short.

Hey, good stuff, Jeff. Thanks.

Jay

I knew it wouldn't last, too.

GLAD TO HAVE YOU(R) BACK!

Jay!

Very good news! God bless, all.

Come on, let's be frank here; sometimes you end up with one dumb elephant!

Well, I do what I can, H.L., I do what I can.

Terri, that's what I'm saying; it might dumb-DOWN the elephant. (The poor bastard).

James--I believe I may have seen your dog. Might he be brown? Barks with a bit of an accent?

Jay

Man, this thing is writing itself!! I'm on it!

Jay

Question; the female that doesn't have sex during the movie--

Are you speaking of the character who doesn't have sex IN the movie?;

Or are you referring to the actress who will play the character, who is not to have sex during the SHOOTING of the movie?;

Or, possibly, do you mean she's not to have sex as she is WATCHING the completed movie?

I'm on page 223--your prompt reply should help me wrap this up pretty quickly.

Thanks

Thank you for your interest Terri, but I'm really not very good with this. I'm not very good WRITING about it either!

Mostly I just cobble stuff together that I've overheard in locker rooms. And I don't even know if it's right!

But on the otherhand, if Thomas can't really use this stuff, then I've got NOTHIN'!

I have it upon good report that our own Paula Smith has advanced in TFI! My congratulations to her and her obviously fine writing.

She has excelled also in other contests but especially anybody that can make the first cut in the very descerning TFI will go along ways and should be held in our awe!

Best, Jay

Heavens...is it true? I've advanced too!! ;)

It was exciting to see that I did, but the real excitement is when we get the TFI notes on our scripts. That's the real value of this great little contest.

I really did mean what I said about you Paula. I hope you go all the way on this--best of luck.

jay

Ron--I'm really encouraged for you. It's sounds like it's only a matter of time, buddy, I'm rooting for you!

I'm not planning any projects that are especially commercial until 2005, and maybe then I'll have a shot too.

Hey, then I can join you!; two jarheads making it! Actually three counting the esteemed William Broyles. Jeeze, we'll be damn near taking over! ;)

Hi James---Yes, it is largely my story, with the exception of the denouement I gave my main character that I didn't especially deserve.

The title "Semper Fi" is Latin shorthand for the Marine Corps slogan meaning "always faithful". It's used with some irony because I didn't do an especially good job over there.

I belonged to a storied company of men though, and at least two books have been written about our small company of 150 guys (Echo Co. Second Battalion 4th Marines.) One was called "The Magnificent Bastards" and I don't recall the other.

Most of the guys seemed to have lost their minds before it was over, and it's said that I did. At least the govenment is paying me accordingly. ;)

The funny thing is that I have been laboring over a second script for now over two years and, though it's based on an ancient Greek battle in 407 B.C. and I thought I was writing something entirely new, I've just discovered that I've written the same script! I didn't do much more than just change the names.

I wonder what my third script will be about. ;)

Regardless, I don't imagine I had it as bad as another MovieByter, Ron Main, who was over there. They've written books about his unit too!

P.S.--Other members of this board are also Viet Nam vets including Karl Ford who was an M.P., and Terry Frazier who was with the 101st Airborne and lost his legs in the service to our country.

My story certainly would not be exceptional to these men; it's just that I chose to write about it.

Best to you all.

He sent me some naked pictures of his once. Would it be okay if I posted those, Frederick?

Hey, I'd really like that, Ron. If I can do it I will--it would be great to meet you, and us hook up with him. We could set up our own LZ and take turns on the LP! Semper fi!

Many people say I look like Elenoir Roosevelts's mother. I wish it had been somebody a little more contemporary--a little more "hip"--but otherwise I find it flattering.

I can send her picture if you'd all like. Anybody else willing to post theirs?

Jay

P.S.--Terri, please send me your picture. That hour-glass thing is right up my alley! ;)

For godsake--of course I look like Elinoir Roosevelt's mother as a man! You think I'd dress up like a woman just to look like her? ;) (damn, girl...you got centerfold pictures??!!)

Jay!

Thanks, Robert. I hope to have my one next off to you before the end of the year!

I was a finalist in WriteMovies once and they really worked with me to put something together, and they've left the door open to me to submit other projects. However, I HAVE no other projects, (unfortunately), because I have NO work ethic,(unfortunately). ;)

But I was very impressed with them.

Jay

Hi Ellum--

Your question has stayed with me these past two weeks--not just whether she might still be alive, but whether she ever WAS alive.

After her first few postings I assumed that she was the figment of somebody's imagination, hence my buffoonery on this thread of the blessing/curse/gypsy schtick.

But what if, by long chance, she was/is real! I don't want making fun of a 95 year old sainted woman on my conscience, dead or alive!

And anyway, the blessing she bestowed may have been heartfelt even if she isn't who she says she is. It is very sweet and here it is: (will take a second--I had it tatooed onto my wife's ass and she's resisting right now) Okay--here it is:

"For you Mr. Williams, may a congregation of all the muses sing in praise of your writings, and may Hemmingway inspire you to the 'one single sentence written well and true'-that all his life (so he said) eluded Mr. Hemmingway, as it did Gertrude Stein and Alice B. Tokas, according to Ms. Stein."

I apologize also to anyone who may of thought I was being so self-absorbed and mean spirited in my musings here. I was just goofing around and meant no harm.

DJW

Thank you all, for your kind thoughts.

(in fairness to my wife, Paula, it WAS both cheeks.)

Wow. I'm really moved. You're a great writer! I wish you the very best. Your husband is an asshole and doesn't deserve you. Take care of your girls, and stay here with us at Moviebytes. It's a real community that is here for each other.

Jay

Hi James,

One of the best opportunities I've received from contests came from my participating in Acclaim last year.

It could have been just happenstance, but at least it proved to me they were legitimate and connected.

Best of luck,

Jay

and T.F.I.

I used Robert Flaxman and hope to use him again. I believe we spent something like 8 hours together on the phone over two or three days going over my script line by line.

We can't get that kind of professional help without paying for it (imho).

And after all of that I've still tried to further improve my script with others' opinions. The more feedback and opinions we can gather, the better. From every source.

Jay

Damn, Rich, you really did nail it! Great job.

And an intriguing high concept--best of luck with it, David.

and the booze never fueled Hemmingway's creativity. He wrote early in the morning and usually concluded before one PM. He took great pride in never writing under the influence and only drank in the evenings.

A lot of prominent writers have been alchoholics, probably because of some mental quirk that bends the creative person toward booze. But they were likely successful not because of drink, but in spite of it.

I often lament the great stories the world lost out on because of F. Scott Fitzgerald becoming a falling down drunk before he got out of his twenties.

Well, hell, I guess I'll have to fill in the gap. ;)

;) !!

I'm absolutely with Ron on this. I don't require of coutesey of people--that's a standard that is beyond the capabiltity of many. But the absence of courtesey isn't discourtesy, and it's really that we're talking about when we're solicited and then don't get a response back. Or get one months later.

That's discourtsey, and it's the sign of a bad business person. Can you imagine how frustrating your life would become just trying to get a phone call returned if you ended up in business with one of them?

Reduce the the number of assholes you have to deal with in this life and you'll have a better life.

Jay

sorry for of the typos. I became agitated addressing the subject. I was remembering an occasion when a client in my past life handed me my fee. As I reached for the check he pulled it back and said that for once he wanted me to express my appreciation that he paid me so much money.

It caught me off guard and I was poor, so I profusely thanked him so I could get paid.

I've always been sorry since that I didn't instead just hammer him into spit. I would have been out by now and I'd be sleeping a lot better too! :)

Happy day to all you Canadians. And sleep well. Our boys are protecting you again tonight.

James, I don't mean to offend my Canadian friends (and I have many Canadian friends. Actually ALL of my friends are Canadian. They just won't talk to me anymore) but the U.S. spends considerably more per capita on health care than does Canada. In fact we have twice as many doctors and twice as many hospital beds per capita than do you folks. More than any other country.

I will concede you the beer, though. And Shania Twaine! Why don't you guys make a big deal about Shania Twaine? Then you'd win every argument. ;)

it's the best!

I always get Kate Smith and Todie Fields confused. Which one was the fat lady who finished her career balancing on one leg? Or was that possibly both of them? Or...are they, conceivably, the same person?!

As I say, I have trouble distinguishing between the two. Can anyone help me?

Thanks in advance,

Jay

P.S. and which one is the dead one?

Personally, I could never be offended if I was not getting responses to unsolicited inquiries that I may have sent out. But I think many of us are referring to the occasions when we've been given the green light to send the script and then don't hear anything back. Or when a prodco or agent solicits us, and then doesn't respond after we send it off.

Those are the guys I find offensive.

Jay

I saw Bambi when I was seven and cried like a baby--because I knew it would be years before I could ever get a hunting license.

I'm KIDDING, people, I'm kidding! I think Bambi and Old Yeller and Hanzel and Gretel, and even the Lion King and that ilk are terrible for the emotional health of real little kids.

Just because those stories are "classics" doesn't mean that they're for the good. Parents have to be very protective of their little ones' sensitivities.

My little granddaughter gets teary over the death of a little bug. That's they way they're suppose to be and it's cruel to make them face our world before they have to.

Jay

To conclude my thought I don't think happy endings are enough for our little ones. I think their movies should be happy from beginning to end. I know that violates the principle fo drama, but so be it.

Hang in there Andrea. Things will get better--not every day, but almost every month, I promise. I've been there.

My best wishes and thoughts go out to you! Jay

Oh, right right right right! Thanks Terri!

But wait!! Kate Smith was finally on one leg too, at the end. They may have damn well weighed the same!

The connundrum continues!

Jay!

Ban Roll-on? Is that what that was? I thought it was some kind of "marital aid" and you were coming on to me. I feel like a damn fool!!!

Hey you guys, there's sure a lot of us up late tonight. For us west coast people it's past midnight. But for you on the east coast it's past 3 AM!

What are we thinking? It's time to go to bed, people!--we'll all look like shit tommorrow if we don't.

Good night all. And before I scream myself to sleep yet again, I will think a kind thought for you each.

Jay

"I feel like I'm in 'Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf'", TOO, Paul!! That is the funniest line. And apropos for this thread.

Anybody with a lithium concession could really clean up here!

I don't so much mind people using multiple personas here. Sometimes it's amusing; there are some threads that are comprised almost entirely of the same person in his several disguises arguing, supporting or castigating HIMSELF. Sad, but so be it.

I just think one should keep their personalities down to a more manageable few.

Take me for instance. I am only D. Jay Williams and Yossarian, and of course, Frederick Mensch. Maybe "somebody" should try to follow my more disciplined example.

and Paula Smith. I'm also Paula Smith.

Hey Warren, nice to hear from you!

Here's the deal--Ellum and Terri are the same person, so it's bit more bizzarre than you imagined around here lately.

They're also the same person as is K. Smith, James Barclay, the recently "deceased" Veena, and a host of others of the past.

And also the same as--and I'm stepping out in faith on this--Victor Slovnic.

Why is this so, I can't say. (I'm not a trained psychotherapist, for godsake!)

and we're watching you like a hawk, too.

Robert---

A problem you may have is that story ideas, no matter how compelling, are too common for currency.

Most writers have too many stories of their own to write--more stories than most of us will have time left in our lives to complete.

Best of luck, though.

jay

Terri--Is it so?--Hawaiians don't celebrate the 4th of July?! Maybe it's just a small circle of those friends that don't.

Hey if it's so I'd be in favor of letting the Japanese take another run at those folks--bet they'd be whistling a different tune. Assholes.

I actually think all countries should celebrate our Fourth of July. The whole world would be speaking Russian, Japanese or German if it wasn't for our boys. (Well, that brings up a point--Japan, Germany and Russia are probably still pissed, so maybe they should get a pass on this.)

And another matter--I have a number of Indian friends and they don't like the term "Native American". Maybe that's only common to my area, but I don't think so. It's some bullshit term made up by white liberals. Like Afro-American. Where does that come from? So I should be embarressed that I'm white?--I should become a European-American? No. You're an American, or not. And then after that, you're of the White, Black, Asian, Indian, (or some combination) of race. Period.

Obviously I'm trying to start something here...so I think I'll keep going. Terri, the Indians didn't own this country before the white man arrived. For godsake, there were only 2,000,000 of them in all of North America! That works out to maybe one Indian every four miles. That's not owning a country. If the bears had organized they could have run them out of here.

By the way, why hasn't anyone challenged me in my sometimes criticism of Canada when I assert that, regardless, many of my friends are Canadian? You don't don't believe it can be so. Yeah, well, Butch Goring is a friend of mine. Butch Goring. You Canadians know who he is. He thinks the world of me, too. Really.

P.S.--A Butch Goring story:

I call the guy in Canada and miss dialed by 5000 miles and got some guy in some godforsaken place in Quebec. (No offence.) And when the guy answers he doesn't sound like Butch but I'm not sure. So I ask, "Is this Butch? Is this Butch Goring?" There's a long pause on his end and then he says with trembling voice, "I wish to GOD I was Butch Goring!"

Yes, James, you would be speaking Arabic, eventually, if it wasn't for us. But don't worry, buddy, we got your back.

But now for the good news for you Canadians; Pam Anderson is Canadian. Maybe you're not all out defending the free world everyday, but still, should that suffice for something?

Your friend in America,

Jay

I didn't have any luck with them but they're true heavyweights, so you should take your best shot at them. If you do, let us know what happens.

best, jay

Very classy response.

I entered American Accolades a few years ago and was discouraged that the judging results were months off of their original projection, so I haven't entered since.

On the otherhand, I know it's an important contest and have heard good things since, so I'm going to try it again the next time around.

Best

I entered my script "Semper Fi" in Nicholl two years ago and didn't make the cut, but Greg wrote a kind encouragement in the margin that I was in the "next 50".

With that incentive I tweaked the script and last year made the quarterfinals.

This year, going for the gold, I tweaked it one last time--and got nothing! Nadda! No "next 50" or even an encouraging "next 10%" (Actual note from Greg Beal: "Your writing is drivel and you're a moron".)

So it could mean that contests are especially subjective until you get by the first reader, but it could also mean that the competition is getting tougher each year. I've seen other signs too, that that may be true.

So I'm retiring this worn script from competition. I did send it off to one last competition--it's 50th! (Can anybody beat that number?)

It's called "Latin USA". All I did is change my main characters names to hispanic. (No--I mean I really did!)

If this works for me then maybe I'll unretire Semper Fi and do the same approach for the gay and women contests. (No--I mean I really will)

I'll let you all know how it goes.

best, Jay

I second that. His personal attention and involvement is extraordinary.

And he is not offering pie-in-the-sky. I remember one of his postings in which he said that often even finalists' scripts are often not be competitive with the pros. (Hope I didn't misquote.)

That's good to be reminded of that because it can inspire us to continue to improve, rather than investing so much of our energies and time in marketing. (imho.)

Ron, you're right. Greg didn't really say that my writing was drivel and that I was a moron. I was just fooling around, it was Frederick Mensch.

I had my script critiqued by Robert Flaxman ("...Rolls Royce of Script Consultants") and he was very pricey, and very helpful. I'm planning on using him again.

On the other end of the scale I paid Melody at "Script Girls" $300 to harrangue and insult me. Bad consultant!(Hey, don't you wish chicks could warn you when it's that time of month?)*

And for the very best value for the money I have twice entered the TFI contest that also includes an incredibly detailed and helpful critique that would cost hundreds elsewhere.

Jay

*come on Ladies, I'm only joking--my mother is a woman, I'm married to a woman, all my daughters are women. I LOVE women. ;)

Hey Ron,

I may try to go to Austin if I happen to advance in the contest ("the chances aren't good, but they're not quite zero"). Hope so--would like to hook up with you, and would love to meet Broyles.

I have an Esquire Magazine from the early 80's I've kept because of a feature article in it he wrote titled "Why Men Love War--The Hidden Secret." I've been a fan since then and he wrote it long before he was a screenwriter.

E-mail me your address and I'll zerox off a copy if you would like it.

Best

This subject reminds me of a Scott Abrahamson of Artists Industry Management.

He contacted me because of a contest result and asked for the script, a multi-paged synopsis, loglines of previously finished scripts, details of my first sexual experience (I'm hazy here--that may have been somebody else), other contest results, and a detailed bio.

And after all that, I never heard from the guy again. I wouldn't judge this guy as badly if he told me my work sucked, as I do for him blowing me off.

(Hmmm...I see that I've chosen two terms that don't juxtapose well with each other. Please excuse this--I was only trying to make a point.)

Has anybody else had the same experience with him?

I agree with you all.

A recent study found the incompetent most confident in own abilities. I found that so sobering that I have the headline taped across the top of my computer. I never want to think that my scripts or I are at our best.

A true professional is probably always questioning their capabilities and it is through those doubts that they rewrite and rewrite...and improve and improve.

And even without that study I always new it was true. I guess I saw too many of Tyson's early fights---the opponants carried out of the ring only moments before having proclaimed their supreme confidence in victory to the world. The poor bastards. ;)

Jerry, I don't have the article anymore, but just the headline--which is dated January 25, 2000, if that helps. If I can figure out how to find it again I'll let you know.

Yeah, Tyson was the real thing! Do you remember an early championship fight where he knocked the guy down THREE times with one punch?

I remember another guy who was audibly praying for his own safety as he was walking down the aisle to face Tyson. He lasted 30 seconds so I don't know if that means his prayers were answered (a fairly painless beating) or not (a beating, all the same).

Yet all of these guys spouted off how they were the best and how they were going to take Tyson apart. And then they were humiliated by their ineptitude.

The only exception that I remember was the undefeated Michael Spinks, who acknowleged that he was probably in for a very unpleasant night. And he was right, he lasted only a minute--so maybe a quiet humility isn't necessarily a guarantee for success either. ;)

BTW, they're going to put Tyson back in prison for beating up two guys last month--but these were two guys who really needed to be beat up, so that's too bad, in my opinion. I'd like to see Tyson beck in prison, for his and society's good, but not for this.

BTW--since I'm so off the subject anyway--but I'm writing two boxing scripts at the moment.

One, titled "the Spartan" is loosely based on Cleamachus who was a famous boxer of ancient Greece, and the other titled "The Great John L." is about John L. Sullivan, who was the world's last bareknuckle Heavyweight Champion.

Cleamachus had (presumably) 2000 knockouts, and John L. over 200. And neither of these boys would have lasted 30 seconds with Tyson.

I will, Gil. Hey, was "K.O" the precipitator or the recipient of the action in which he earned his nickname?

Boxing in the past always developed great nicknames. Some of my favorites: Tombstone Smith; Spider Web; Fainting Phil (I believe in his case there's no question he was the recipient of the harm): The Mannasa Mauler: The Brown Bomber (I think Joe Louis would have to be satisfied with "The Afro-American Bomber" today to satisfy the politically correct);The Bronxville Bomber; The Wild Bull of the Pampas; "The Boston Strong Boy; and, of course, all of the wonderful "Sugar Rays".

I believe we writers need similar nicknames to inspire awe and fear in the market! I'll be working on mine this afternoon--I'll be getting back to you on this. (Maybe you should all work on yours, too, to stay competitive.)

Right now I'm thinking "D. Jay 'He Could Use the Payday' Williams" but it may be lacking the certain panache I'm looking for. I may need to tweak it some.

Thanks, Sean, I'd forgotten his name--Berbick. And if the referee hadn't grabbed him and held him up he would have gone down the 4th time from that one shot. He was a very brave man, to keep trying so hard to stay in the fight.

I hadn't heard the Michael Spinks quote--very funny! And he was very brave. I remember he was on the ropes and Tyson crouched down to deliver the coup de grace, and Spinks started a desparation right hand at Tyson in response. Spinks was unconscience before it traveled 6 inches, but he went out swinging.

A good metaphor for living--what we would each hope for ourselves.

Hi Steven,

I've never sent out a quiery because I know there's little point; I only have one script at the moment, and I know it may not have a market.

But I have responded to the few who have initiated the contact, and I'm suprised when I don't get the courtesy of a response. Not heartbroken--but suprised.

RE the scene--traditionally if it refers to the USMC, the term Marine is capitalized, because it's considered a title and not a description.

Hi Wayne---

I'd be happy to look at it and give you my thoughts.

Congratulations, Paul. I'll keep a good thought for you--hope you also make the finals!

Jay

I'm in too. It's always just a crap shoot but it still feels good. Best of luck to everybody.

Jay

P.S.--My making the cut just goes to show that even a structurally weak and over written script with an unsympathetic protagonist with an unclear goal and a story line that has been done to death can still get by the first reader, with some luck.

Oh yeah, I forgot--it was also sometimes racist and mysogynistic, and had a totally unnecessary and tasteless joke about having sex with a rock ape. So I mean you sometimes REALLY have to luck out with that first reader! (My luck didn't hold as well this year with Nichol--the bastards!) ;)

David, you nailed it!

Jay ;)

The antagonists role is to force the hero into change, and so I think something has to fulfill that role. But it doesn't have to be embodied in a character--it could be the hero's own nature he's struggling against, such as the movie TEN where Dudley Moore's lust for Bo Derek keeps screwing him up. (And of course in my case it's Gloria Estefan.)

I wrote a war script in which there were lots of enemy bad guys. I had V.C. and N.V.A. crawling all over the place. But they weren't antagonists. They were more like the shark in JAWS; simply mechanical killing devices who show up occasionally to do their job. The real antagonist was my hero's ill conceived notion of glory.

On the otherhand, I think if you can have a more clear cut antagonist it's generally better. (And easier!)

best,

Jay

Frazier--

Some writers have had success contemporizing, at least loosely, far earlier writings. "Brother here Art Thou" is a recent example, although I don't remember what it was based on.

Somebody recently posted about an Aristophanes play, I think, (the one in which Greek women withheld sex from their husbands to end the Pelopennesian War) that they have contemporized.

So I think it's a clever idea. And it would give you a clever approach.

If I were personally doing it I would mindful, though, that most of the ancient classics would have to be actually improved to be competitive with the best of modern drama. A lot of that stuff is pretty hard to read (imho).

Best of luck on it.

"...clever approach." I meant clever marketing approach. I bet you'd get some extra reads out of it.

I'm out. They must have read my third act. I wasn't counting on that--damnit.

Ed--this is so common. Being a Chesterfield finalist is an exclusive club, so it is easy for some who don't make it to assume it is because of some minority status.

I didn't make the cut either, and if I was black, or a woman, or Latino it would human nature for me to assume you were exhibiting some predudice. But most predudice is only imagined (regardless of what the Rev. Jackson says), except in my case. If I learn that there are no other white males with hereditary pattern baldness and a strong prediliction toward heterosexuality in your mix I'm going to be pissed!

Please respond, or I will have to assume the worst and, possibly, place a call to the A.C.L.U.

Hey, Richard! If Al Sharpton wanted to prove he is even handed and not just looking out for the Mike Tyson's and O.J. Simpton's of the world, maybe he'll help us sue Ed!

What do you think?!

Richard--I think you are being a little shortsighted here.

A letter on Al Sharpton's letterhead would make our Mr. Edward Regoff shake in his boots!! It wouldn't request a reconsideration for this years tainted voting, but would simply ask that we be made finalists now for next year's contest.

And after Regoff--if Regoff is his real name--(I think not)--I propose we take a run at Greg Beal at Nicholl, and then that Burrows guy over at Austin.

If you're unwilling to champion civil rights that's up to you, but for me, I'll always take the higher path.!

See ya' at the Oscars.

Jay

P.S.--I apologize to Ed, I see that I mispelled his last name. (On the otherhand, Ed, do you always spell it the same way? Always?. Mistakes happen.)

Your friend and supporter,

Jay



Jay

Welcome back to the fold, D.G.!

Jay

He's been a long time contributor to Movie Bytes. You can get a good feel for his abilities by punching the "display all messages" button.

I've read them--I like the guy's style. If he ends up not performing well that's one thing, but for now I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Jay

Hi Sean--I didn't mean to sound critical of you. I would be feeling exactly as you do, if I were in your shoes.

I just thought, because he's one of us, we might give him a little more time before the rest of us pass final judgement on him.

Best wishes on your project.

Mark--I've concentrated on contests that provide feedback and believe me, no one comes even close to T.F.I. So, for those competing for distant second place I would strongly recommend Aces and Red Inkworks--probably in that order.

Jay

Hey, what Gil said goes for me too. ;)

And thanks, Frederick, for the BEST screenwriting site on the whole internet. Great job, great service!

Jay

I had a reader recommend that I triple space between scenes. It would make it a bit easier on the eyes, but I'm not seeing any scripts use this technique. Is this a good idea, or not?

Thanks--djw

Thank you, guys. I appreciate the help. And thanks to the venerable Robert Flaxman for weighing in on this. (He of "Deepfeedback.com)

Robert, coincidentally I was about to give you a call. You did a script for me many (many!) seasons ago and I'm very masochistically excited about this next one! I'll try to track you down Monday.

Happy New Year everyone--

Jay

"...lost count...second ass..." Funny stuff, Steven! The whole post is funny. Best of wishes on your writing this year. djw

I miss Ashley too, Steven. As I recall, she left this site in a huff when she took umbrage at something you posted--and then Yossarian refused to sleep with her. Why don't you consider contacting her? Make up. (Hey, and maybe Yossarian will change his mind, too!)

Can anyone help me with another question? If I have consequitive scenes placed along nondescript general locations such as "county road" or "desolate plain" can I use the same such headings, and in the action narrative indicate that it is further along the road, or such? Or do I need to find something unique about each setting (although it seems contrived) and place that in the heading. Or can I simply write COUNTRY ROAD--DIFFERENT LOCATION (which looks a bit lazy to me right now). Thanks for any help (again).

I had previously recommended TFI, Blue Cat (it takes forever but it's good and it's only 20 bucks!) and Red Inkworks. But I agree with other posters--Writers SriptNetwork and Acclaim are also very helpful. And Acclaim is coming up very shortly! All the formentioned contests give indepth analysis and some (especially TFI) involve many pages of comments and recommendations. The small problem I've had with other contests that seem to promise the same thing is the scantity of their notes. That includes American Accolades, Hollywood Symposium and Slamdance (which give, unless they've recently changed their program, just very brief comments over the phone.) It is all helpful, but there is, still, a big difference in the amount of service provided.

best Jay

Hi Greg--You have the heavyweight champion of all contests! Nice to hear from you.

I advanced twice at Nicholl with the same script but the last time I submitted it (substantially improved, I had hoped) it didn't make the the first cut, or even your encouraging "next 50" or even "next 10%.

You had the same number of applicants as the prior year--although I recognize the competition may have gotten stiffer. But it also occurred to me that maybe you keep track of prior entries, and if you see them too often they may be downgraded in favor of fresher scripts. Is that it, and if so, how many times can I writer get by submitting the same script?

Thanks Jay

Hi Kim. Just some random thoughts--

I think you should perservere at your job, or at least in the same field, and always only write on the side.

The ugly fact is that there is really very little money to be made in writing of any type--other that copywriting and ad copy.

Even if you found the Holy Grail and sold a script for a half million, that really only nets at best 200 grand after taxes, attorney fees, agent fees, and possible literary agent fees. A good chunk of money but probably not enough to dramatically change a life--or even quit a good job for. And that amount is only available to maybe one half of one percent of us pursuing this.

My writing reminds me of my long career as an amateur boxer. It covered parts of three decades and I retired with a record of 49 and 0. (I always felt that maybe one more fight I could have won one..but, it wasn't to be.;)

Anyway, I gained a lot of satisfaction from doing it. I wasn't especially good, but I was as good as I could be under the curcumstances, doing something very hard, that most people would be afraid of doing.

I want to be good at writing but I'm reconciled that satisfaction will still come to me for doing this hard thing others would be afraid of doing. After all, if something is worth doing, it should be worth doing even badly. (IMHO)

Best

Jay

People who think we have a lot of crime usually live in big cities.

Not much crime here in Spokane. Our major crime story this week was two guys who took their clothes off and streaked a McDonalds. They ran around the restaurant naked and then back to their running car--to discover it was gone--stolen. The boys tried to hide but they were easy for the cops to find, being they were the only ones without clothes and all.

I've never been a victim of crime and don't know anyone who personally has been mugged or robbed. People who think there's a lot of crime live in big cities, where there is a lot of crime. I'm in no hurrt to move to LA, even if it hinders my progress.

Hi Gil--No I've never sold anything. Mygawd, if you read anything I've written you wouldn't have to ask. It's bilge! Much of it totally incomprehensible! (I'm not kidding-- it really is.) On the other hand I'm still, curiously, very optimistic.

Ron--You are right about me having seen worse than LA. And you too. We both shared a neighborhood that would make LA look like Disneyland!

On the otherhand, we were allowed to call in airstrikes on our neighbors when they became too obstreperous, so I don't know...could be a toss-up here.

Frederick--Very funny stuff! In Woody Allen's class. (I mean when he was funny!) You should find someplace to use that. Before I do. :)

P.S.--My reason for not wanting to move to LA isn't because of crime. It's because of Ed Asner.

:) !!

Nice work, Richard! I hope you continue with your success.

Jay

I'm three weeks away from sending Robert Flaxman (Deepfeedback.com) my next script. He's pricey but he helped me immeasurably on my first script, and it did well in the contests afterwards.

Incidentally, I would also like to get notes from anyone else here who would be willing, and I will reciprocate. I don't have a polished logline yet but it will be in the vain of "A Spartan warrior--the lone survivor of his company--seeks revenge against the enemy officer who spared him."

It will be a rough draft that I know doesn't quite work, but I'm especially interested in getting help for certain trouble spots. Thanks-

Jay

Terri--The problem for most of us is that we live in the hinterlands and may not have access to screenwriting groups. My town has none--lots of writing groups but no screenwriters.

I'm sorry for your loss and have said a prayer for you and your family. I've never lost a close family member, and I'm frightened of it.

Jay

Dear Pinky, Let's see...hmmm...how to broach this subject....don't want to be indelicate, certainly, but uhhh...nor do I wish to seem disaproving, but...well, I'll just come out and ask. Lesbian?

Sean, you're right! I don't know what I was thinking. In fact, there was a Pinky Lee (whom in my youth I was often compared to) and he was a regular guy. More or less.

Maybe they're related?

uhh...Dad?

Pinky, I certainly mean know disrespect to lesbians. I actually have a great deal in common with lesbians and wish that I could make an aquiantence of one sometime so we could talk and share.

My difficulty is that there is a general dearth of them here in the Pacific Northwest. In fact none here in Spokane. (I've asked around.)

So, I guess, that just made me more curious than some.

Don't buy it.

I don't buy it, Ellum. If you're not Terri then you're the host body and Terri is the alias. Your fingerprints are all over each other, and all over the other many personas of your "clan".

The problem with the Terri personalities is that with a half dozen running at the same time he/she started writing in the same voice--same idioms.

It was amusing to try to detect the new characters and interesting to see how they would interact--often arguing and insulting each other, but more often coming to each other's defense. Some threads were comprised almost entirely of these fictitous people harping and cojoling and flattering and railing against each other.

The real problem to this is the violation of trust this type of board generates. There was the case of the our member who came down with inoperable brain cancer last year. Our hearts and prayers went out to him, as we saw his posting become more and more erratic with the progression of his disease. Now I realize that that was very likely just another of these manufactured people.

All else could be argued as innocent fun but there is something very wrong about that.

I think the only reasonable thing to do is for each of us to declare our aliases and be done with it.

I'll start. I'm Paula Smith and, of course, Frederick Mensch. I apologize and swear you'll never hear from either again.

Who's next?

I want to appologize to everyone here when I claimed I was Paula Smith. I've claimed that I was her before, but it's just that she is always such a lady and if I was a woman (although God help me that I don't suddenly become one--I'm way too committed to my current lifestyle)I would want to be a lady. Like her.

I'm not retracting the other, though. I am Frederick Mensch, I'm proud of it, and I challenge anyone to prove different.

and if any of you challenge that claim you're off the board!

Hi Nancy and welcome. We'll be watching you like a hawk from now on. ;)

Less than 1/2 of 1% of us will ever see our work up on a screen as a Hollywood film, so we are by nature a bit eccentric (i.e. crazier than piss-ants). On the same token our kind of optimism is noble and inspiring, so this is a good place to visit.

Just be aware that for all of names posting, there's really, at best, only maybe three of us really here.

Ron, I've been giving a lot of thought to what you've posted, and John's comments are helpful, too.

I've just completed my second script and am in the midst of outlining the third. But now I might not write it. Or if I do, I don't know if I'll a next one.

What I am sure about is that if something isn't working then it will likely continue not working, no matter how often we repeat the process. No one (for the most part) is selling specs. Maybe we all need to rethink this process.

Thanks, friends, for the input.

Jay

Alyssa may have found the key. Except maybe the novels in the public domain could be a problem. Producers could steal that from us, if they liked our pitch. Hmmm...

And those with a discerning eye can see that there are still multiples among us....new mutations. Three as I'm speaking...err...writing. They're a lot like the pod people. Only different.

(Doreen, maybe that was a little wordy--at least for a screenplay--but that is good writing!)

Rock, I think it means we're screwed.

I was waiting for the 15th announcement that would indicate advancing to finals, but it's my understanding that we didn't advance, they don't call. Bastards. ;)

I'm wondering if there is sufficient merit to taking this class online. The last night of these classes allows the students to pitch important invited guests. It's $129, which is considerably more than I'd want to pay for the course--unless the pitch opportunity makes it worth while.

Has anybody else had experience with this program?

Thanks

a minor typo there--I meant IF we didn't advance.

Hey, I wonder if my habit of eliminating conjunctions in my writing penalized me in this contest. I do it to get my page count down--although I admit that it may make the script totally incomprehensible to read. (It's just hard to please these bastards, isn't it?)

On reflection, maybe it wasn't the conjunctions. I submitted it in Esperanto--how the hell would they know if I got rid of the conjunctions! Are they only guessing? (Assholes.)

Alyssa--

Yes, it happens all the time. If you don't advance to the quarter-finals it just means that you didn't get by the first reader. And art is pretty subjective, so that doesn't prove if the script is good, or not.

On the otherhand, if your script has failed to advance in a series of contests, that probably is telling.

Contests become less subjective after the first cut. Usually the scripts then recieve multiple reads.

Contests with good feedback help you learn the specific weakness in a script. But submitting to contests without the feedback are still helpful by indicating how competitive your script is--i.e. how much more work it still needs.

I just finished a sript in which my very last line is "we pull back to see..." A double whammy--two violations of what-is-sacred in a row!

By that line I am is directing, and I am intruding the reader and me into the story.

I least I was smart enough to not do it more than onc. And especially to have not done it until the very end, so that they couldn't "throw it against the wall" before I got my whole story out.

I think it added a punch to my ending, but I may be wrong, and I may change it. But for now my advice would be that if you must violate a tenat, do it infrequently and do it late

"sript"!..."I am is directing"!..."tenat"!

What the hell are you doing to me, Frederick!!! You're screwing with my postings again and you're making me look like a fool to all my friends! Must you continue this cruel game with me, forgodsake? Why don't you pick on somebody else for awhile?

See, as an example he did it again by adding the question mark after "awhile"--a rhetorical question that does not call for "?", and of which I, of course, did not add.

BTW Frederick is also responsible for the many of the diatribes that appeared under my name made during the war--especially the ones making fun of the Canadians and the French. Oh, and the ones about the Germans. And Ed Asner all those other guys, too. I didn't do any of that.

And another thing, I posted all these under the thread "Writing 'we see' in action thoughts". How stupid would a guy have to be to make that kind of error!

Wayne has all the earmarks of being another "Terri" imposter. When I claimed there were still a half dozen of them on this board he was one I included.

And his/her defense of Terri is the DNA proof.

Let me get this sraight, Wayne. Are you saying you're NOT the person we know fondly as "Veena-G.Hurd-K.Smith-James Barclay-Ellum-Terri-Pinky-Victor", (and the other half dozen more)?

Prove it. Send me a picture of you standing next to something New Zealandish. But what the hell would that be anyway? Maybe a Koala Bear. That's it--send me a picture of you with a Koala bear and then maybe I'll take you off this growing list.

Oh. Well, how about a wallaby, then?

Wait, better yet--he has to send us a picture of him standing next to Charlize Theron! And no tricks; he's got to hold up a recent newspaper so we know it's current.

Or the wallaby. Either's fine.

I never said I thought Charlize Theron was from New Zealand. I just said I wanted a picture of her. I may have been confused about the walaby's and koala bears though.

The only thing that we really associate with New Zealand is their inane demonstrations against the U.S. military. So, send me a picture of you standing next to some clown with a sign saying "No More Nukes" and I'll believe that you really are from New Zealand. (Or San Francisco. Or, then again, maybe Seattle.)

Or a Moari. You come up with a picture of you standing next to a Moari, preferably in native dress (don't want you to try to pass off some Hawaiian) and I'll concede that you're from New Zealand. And then we're done with it.

But, on the otherhand, that could possibly mean that Terri's from New Zealand. A conundrum! Let me get back with you on this.

er...uhh...Zulu?

Miriam, it's nice to hear from you again! And, no, I didn't know Koala Bears were really marsupials. (I bet the guy that named them really feels like an asshole now!)

And concerning my (possible) mistake about Zullus being native to New Zealand. With international air travel now as it is, it's not inconceivable that there COULD now be Zullus in New Zealand. So, "Wayne", my last offer stands. You show up with a picture of you with a Zullu and we're square.

'Zulu". I stand corrected. I only have an abridged dictionary and it doesn't go all the way to the Zs. (No, I mean it really doesn't!) Regardless, my offer stands: Come up with a real ZULU and we'll accept you for who you claim to be.

P.S. I don't claim to be professional geographer but I believe that New Zealand was originally known as "Formosa". My map still calls it that. If you had been a little more forthcoming on this, "Wayne", maybe you'd have more credibility here at Movieybytes.

I've tried to have an adult conversation with you, Wayne, but we've gotten a little off field with our "Koala bears", "wallabys", "Zulus", "Maoris" and now "Formosa", haven't we? I think the whole point of this was that you were to send me a picture of Charlize Theron.

Well, I'm not holding my breath--I'm leaving this thread. (I've got far more important things to do--as you all well know.)

Boy is my face red! I'll be frank--I really don't know that much about New Zealand. Actually I never knew there was a NEW Zealand until this thread. (My getting the Charlize Theron part right was just a lucky guess.)

It was really this Wayne guy's fault, leading me into this deep water. Goading me. But it's still possible I know as much now about New Zealand as he.

"...turn LEFT..." ! Thank you, Steve! That's where I made my error.

Eric, if you look back on this thread I think you'll see that it was Wayne who purported Charlize Theron was from New Zealand. I was always a little iffy on it myself, but I didn't want to show him up.

I'm in, too. Robert Flaxman and Barb Doyan are both critiqing it for me this week and then I'll have time for one last polish. (It's called "Motorcycle Sluts from Hell"--a contemporized version of the Louisa May Alcott classic "Little Women". Wish me luck!)

I was joking, of course, about the whole Little Women and Motorcycle Sluts thing. I shouldn't do that--I know enough people already think I'm a moron.

I just got the Barb Doyan analysis back and I'm really disheartened. She didn't understand my script and it's not her fault but mine. I attempeted a complicated plot, which may be beyond my current skills to pull off.

I've got the Flaxman analysis on the 21st still before me and maybe he can help me make this thing comprehensible. But I may not have enough time now to get it in shape for the deadline.

I wish everybody the best at Nichol.

Jay

Thanks Paula. Yeah, if you come across one that has a picture of a Zulu please let me know. I may never get a chance to get to New Zealand, and though I can't really place them, my recollection is that these Zulus can be very nice.

Wha...huh?

Colin, I'm a little puzzled. If this movie wasn't an interpretation but was taken directly from the Bible (as you say) and if it's also just a tool of the Christian right's George Bush (as you say) does that mean it's therefore your contention that Bush had something to do with writing the Bible?

If that's you opinion that's fine...I just think there's some problems there.

And Aaron! What an unpleasant thing to say! I'm not of the Christian right but I have spent a lot of time in some of their company.

There's no predudice on their part against the Jews. On the contrary. They--through prophecies and scriptures others think they've misinterpreted-- believe the Jews are in many ways still God's chosen people and have a primacy in last day events. So they are very protective of things Jewish, and especially of the nation of Israel. And it is through this devotion that they have influenced national policy to be Israel's protector.

If it wasn't for these very people you are insulting Israel would now be a giant parking lot with a Mosque in it's center--and our Twin Towers would likely still be standing.

P.S. Why don't you say something insulting about Allah? No guts? You're not afraid of you're many Muslim friends, and their famous tolerance of Jewish expression, are you?

And another P.S.--Of course the Jews, and the Romans killed Christ. As Mel said, "there weren't any Scandanavians in Jeruselum." So what? Is that hateful? How come then only you Jews are whining about it? Why aren't the Italians on Mel's ass too?

eah, that's outragious claiming Hitler considered himself a Christian. He ridiculed the faith and sent thousands of people to concentration camps for practicing it(including members of my denomination that I've talked with).

The only religion that consistantly kills in the name of their god is the Muslims. (Oh yeah, and there were the Aztecs, Incas and Mayans. Kinda the same deal.)

'The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jews."

Adolf Hitler "Hiltler's Table Talks" as recorded by Martin Bormann

(oops--I didn't mean to push the 'send" button)

Hitler wrote Mein Kampf as a political prisoner in 1920 or 1921. It was a polemic intending to appeal to the masses, so it isn't suprising he may have used Christianity to sway his largely Lutheran audience.

But his informal table talks were recorded in 1942-43 and were for an audience of only his cronies--hence his true feelings.

Anyway, the guy was a psychopath. He had no affection for man or God.

Can you guys help me? I have books and have received advise over the years that is sometimes conterdictory on formatting.

I'd appreciate knowing what is the most current recommendations for my following questions:

1) "continues" and "mores" for interrupted dialogue. Years ago the advice was to disable that feature on my software. What's the current recommendation?

2) Scene headings. I've been told in the past that it's not necessary to use "INT/EXT." or "DAY/NIGHT" designations on any scenes following a master scene unless one of those elements changes. The problem I see is that if there are several scenes following the master scene that sets that up, the reader may forget if it's interior or exterior, or night and day, without having to reference back to the master scene. On the otherhand it does clean up the page a little bit removing those redundancies. (I understand, of course, that those designations are never used after the master scene if, for say, the story is moving between various rooms.) What is best?

3) I'm re-polishing a five year old script that was just requested. I haven't re-visited it for years, and was suprised to see how often I used all caps for important sounds and objects. Also I used all caps (sometimes) to indicate explosive sounds or dialogue shouting when great passion was used. And I even added exclamation marks after that--and sometimes even more than one! Looks a bit amateurish to me now, yet nobody ever complained to me in the past about it. I'd like to leave it as it is--unless you all think I should change some or all of it.

4) Can we still use "beat" occasionally in dialogue to indicate a pause?

5) A tough one (at least for me): If a succession of scenes takes place as the characters move through a jungle or desert, how do I do I still use in my slug only "JUNGLE", even though the actual location in the jungle has chanced. Or maybe adding to it "a different location?" Or should I try to show some difference in one jungle setting to another, i.e. "JUNGLE CLEARING" or "JUNGLE TRAIL" (Frankly, I've been in jungles and deserts and each location all looked pretty much the same to me!) Or maybe I could use JUNGLE--FURTHER ALONG (which is how I setted this before).

I have David Trottier's "The Screenwriter's Bible" which is probably the definitive book on these questions, but it's the 3rd Addition, and dates to 1998.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

Jay

(Sorry for my typos. Which leads me to my last question: Are typos okay if it helps me slam out more pages?)

Thanks, Terri, that's a great help. And I'm going check out "Ghost and the Darkness" today.

Can you or anyone else, take a run at my second and third questions? (And then I swear I won't ask anymore!)

Thanks again, Terri. (Yeah, I wasn't paying attention to my question numbers.)

Hi Nathan,

If you go to the contest list you'll really find that there are a lot of them--over a couple of dozen. Most of the deadlines have recently past, but Ace TV is coming up this Jan 1.

I've got a sit com I've recently sent to a few of those contests, and for extra exposure I changed the format and also made it into a short screenplay. It took only another hour or two of typing, but it opens up another couple dozen contests available for shorts.

Thanks for all the help. And Terri, I took your advice and looked up Wm. Goldman's "Ghost and the Darkness". A fascinating script, but, suprisingly he violates nearly every aspect of proper formatting. There's not even any Int. or Ext. designations!

But he's the King and can get away with it.

It reminds me when Ali came on the scene. I was a boxer then and was so influenced by his unorthodox style of dropping his hands and leaning away from the punches, that I tried to emulate him. They could have counted a hundred over me after my one and only attempt to fight like Ali.

I also want to give my thanks to Frederick. My questions were prompted because I got a very good Hollywood request for my script "Semper Fi" that has been listed on his "Contest Winners" section these past five years. And it's been almost that long since I've even bothered sending it out, or since anyone has requested it. I'm very grateful.

I've learned something. Very good advice. Thanks

I know your frustration, but Sue's advise is probably best. I've spent too much productive time going back and back and back to contest sites looking for results that are over due.

But I do have another great contest to recommend to you. Barb Doyon, the script consultant that many of us have used (and one of the best values for the money) has a new contest, "Extreme Screenwriting."

She sent me results, including score sheet and recommendations to improve my script, exactly two weeks after the contest's postmark deadline (and maybe only 8-9 days after she actually received my script!)

She has also responded to two e-mails of mine; one on the same day, and the other the following day. (She is breaking ALL of the contest coordinators' secret rules!)

Compare this to Fade In Magazine's "Writers Network" contest. It took them seven months to provide the first results, and I've been waiting eleven days for them to respond to my e-mail--and I presumably won the damn thing. (I wonder how they would trat me if they didn't like me so much!)

The one contest I really miss was TFI (the Texas one) They scored, by far, the highest marks from Movieybytes members of all of the hundreds of contests, year after year. I wonder what happened to them. Wish they'd return.

Apropos to really nothing, but this is a great coincidence. I've been accused of being both Orlanda Szabo AND Randy Roberts!(whoever starts these rumors I'd sure like to hell know)--and here we are all on the same thread at almost the same moment!

(What are the chances...unless of course...well...never mind.)

Ron

Linda, I very much appreciate you bring this to my attention. This is, of course, all new to me, and I find it very troubling. I'm going to get to the bottom of this, believe you me! (I can't help wondering what role Frederick may be playing in all this.)

BTW Linda, if I were really Orlando why would I (as she) deny being me? Common sense, Linda.

No, there has to be some other explanation. I'll have to get back with you on this.

I just want to re-visit this one last time. Concerning the term, for instance, "Captain Smith"; would I understand that in exposition it would it be acceptable to type it out as "Capt. Smith"?

Also the character's name over dialogue; would "Capt. Smith" be okay, or should Captain be spelled out.

Thanks for your help

Wow, thanks, Ellum, that is very helpful.

I thought I was to include the "Capt." designation throughout, if that was the name used over the dialogue. It certainly does cluttered it up--I'm going to go through and change it all.

Thanks again.

I always understood it should be spelled out in dialogue. I was just less sure if the abbreviation should be used in action and description. Now I'm smarter.

Actually, I don't think anyone has the rights; it's probably in the public domain and is available for you to do with it as you want.

Certainly you will want to research this, but I believe copyrights expire 70 years after the death of the author.

When I was in business I came to the decision that I should always do that that my competion would hope I not do. So I'm with David; we need to see this war out. Because if it isn't important for us to be in Iraq, how come it's so important to the terrorists for us to leave?

BTW Terri, your inanity about Jesus "lost years" rivals that of the preposterous foolishness of the recent book claimimg Jesus was married. (But, fortunately for you, Christians won't think you should be gutted like a pig for your indiscretion.)

Dear Adrianne,

You have definitely come to the right site to scam the naive and gullible.

We're famous--even anxious--for accepting people with multiple personalities, promoting all kinds of improbable buffooneries. But this is too much, even for us! And for what point, anyway? This isn't a site likely visited by producer types.

Hey, that's funny stuff! And your Mom really sounds like a cool gal--especially the part of trying to help you out with the local girls.

Best wishes!

Coming back from Nam they they dropped us off at Okinawa for awhile to decompress.

I became infatuated with a b-girl, who said her name was "Snatch". I asked her how she got the name and she pulled her top down and exposed her breast. (That's actually when the infatuation started.) Her breast had "Snatch" tatooed on it, with an arrow pointing southward.

Apparently she had fallen asleep one night and a G.I. tattooed it on her with India ink. (I bet it was some Army guy did that, is what I'm thinking.) Anyway, she knew so little English that she thought it was an endearment!

I was just a kid and stupid, but I really ( briefly) considered marrying her so I could bring her home with me. But I couldn't get past how the introduction would go. "Mom, this is Snatch. Snatch, Mom." That was the deal breaker.

I still think about her. (Sometimes alot;)

By the way, my girlfriend Snatch reminds me of Ron's reference to the "Crotch"--which is the semi-affectionate term we Marines used for the Marine Corps, such as "How long you been in the Crotch?"

Taken out of context it may have sounded obscene. (Although, of course, taken IN context it's intended to sound obscene.)

Hey, you guys, I really like the Tokyo prostitute/mannequin. story. Very poignant. One of you should consider using it. It would make a good short story, too.

Something Terry said stayed with me. He said the N.V.A. were always kicking their ass.

When I first got to Nam with the 4th Marines that's all I heard.

I don't think we ever had a firefight in which we didn't take causualties--and yet we almost always caused the enemy more harm than the did us--and sometimes considerably more! Still, we always referred to it later as getting our ass kicked.

At first I would appeal to the veterans on the illogic of it. After a few of weeks I was saying the same thing.

I think that's just the way of war; at least it is for American soldiers and Marines. The enemy's lives were, to us, inconsequential, but our comrade's lives were precious to us.

I would imagine that even in the case of Terry's catastrophic firefight, he and his guy's killed far more of the enemy than they lost. But that likely brings small consolation to Terry.

Hey,

Ron, you're right. She was from Kim Village! I see we plied the same beat. (Although, as memory serves, I was looking for the library.) I don't know what the Rock is, though.

And I never knew the NVA units we were up against. I believe, though, that they had "little rice-propelled motherf***s" some where in their name.

because I sent those reports on you to the F.B.I.?"

A man trying to seduce a woman, overheard 5 minutes ago on the soap "The Guiding Light".

Randy, I swear I was skimming through the channels looking for...I don't know...cage fighting or something. I didn't mean to watch a soap. Forget it was ever said. Please.

And, no, I don't know what her answer was. I was too flabbergasted that somebody is being paid a lot of money to write that drivel. And it's not me!

Yeah, the typing card. Turn it in.

Same thing here, and three more ads this morning.

Terry. That would have been a great idea--they should have shown movies!

Then I could have had something to do when my dates never returned from the consession stand.

I don't think so. I always took it for some kind of euphemism that the date was over.

But, hey--concession stands! That would be a great idea too!

Yeah, I kinda second that.

And if you find us Christians too prickly to be good sports you could always make fun of the Muslims. They're known to enjoy a good laugh at their expense. (Best of luck to you.)

Ron, thanks. I don't remember ever seeing it in the daytime. That must be when the people emerge--I only remember it bustling.

The NVA never caused me to lose my hope for humanity. It was the bar girls that would take our money for a drink orders and never return ;)

Most of the outragious personalities that show up here now and then are just make-believe characters created by established members. (Or member.)

I always wonder why.

Wow, congratulations to you, Connie! First place out of over 4000 scripts at Austin is really a big deal. Tell us, did you get a lot of calls? And did you get representation or any great contacts from your win?

By the way, I was unduly critical of Austin (hey, who was the character on Saturday Night Live that would conclude some buffoonery after being corrected with "Nevermind"?). After I insisted Austin was prejudiced to action adventure scripts here at Moviebytes I got a letter from them saying that "Semper Fi" made quarter-finals there.

The prior letter that I thought told me I hadn't advanced was only for some special catagory of low budget scripts that they call "The Burnt Orange Award". Mine's actually big budget, so I never entered it in that catagory, and don't know why that letter.

Anyway, best of luck in the future, and including at Nicholl.

Jay

Alright, that does it. I was being nice saying there was a 10% chance Betty wasn't an imposter, but now it's dropped to 0%. No, minus 0%!

This is the same member who additionally (pathologically)has used a dozen other phony personas (Pinky the Lesbian was one of my favorites; I like lesbians--I can talk shop with lesbians) but I can't handle this foolishness anymore. I'm out of here. Goodbye. Please all go on and have good lives so I won't have to worry about any of you anymore.

I know what you guys mean. I've taken a shot now over a hundred times in maybe a total of 75 or so contests. It didn't end up being as much fun as it was promised to be, but I'm going to do some of them occasionally.

The one thing I've discovered is that, with maybe small exceptions, there is only one real contest and that's Nichol. I've won a couple others, and have placed in a couple dozen more, but none of that combined exposure (and combined time and money!) adds up to even a quarter of the attention you get for even a quarter-finalist placing at Nichol.