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Topic: Christian Screenplay

Author: Steven Karels Posted: 02/26/02 06:55 AM

Anyone know of contests or prodcos specifically dealing in screenplays with a Christian perspective? I finally finished a script about a homosexual who finds Christ but also finds rejection within the Church.

Thanks,

Steve

Author: Joan J.C. Posted: 02/26/02 02:08 PM

There are some prod.cos. looking for scripts with a Christian uplifing theme.

However, not to be critical, since yours is a bit off the beaten path and possibly controversial, I don't think that's the way to go.

Probably, an indie co., who likes that edgy, dark genre would be more suitable.

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 02/26/02 02:24 PM

I have seen calls for Christain screenplays, but I don't remember where.

I'm pretty sure you could find whatever I saw by going to:

www.madscreenwriter.com/wanted.htm

and following all the links.

Author: Colleen De Maio Posted: 02/26/02 02:58 PM

Steven,

Just curious...did you ever see "Priest"? Similar themes...it caused a flurry of controversy, but I thought it was pretty sincere and well-intentioned.

Author: Steven Karels Posted: 02/26/02 04:47 PM

Colleen,

Never saw it. Will look for it.

Steve

Author: Jimmy B. Posted: 02/26/02 05:38 PM

I'm wondering if your screenplay might be better directed to contests/prodcos that are more geared toward gay- & lesbian-themed movies. But then, it all really depends on the premise of your story. Is it an affirmation of traditional Christian tenets, or rather a cry for change--one that screams it's time for organized Christianity to 'get with' the 21st century by accepting homosexuality as a natural variation in the spectrum of human sexuality?

There are many gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people who are Christians, many of whom belong to the Metropolitan Community Church. The MCC was organized back in the day when there were no other Christian denominations that accepted homosexuals. The moral landscape is gradually changing, thankfully, as more and more denominations and sects have begun to accept sexual minorities into their folds--without judgement or the underlying motives to "fix" them.

If your s/p is one that affirms the need for organized religion to change, and sends a gay-positive message, I'd recommend submitting it to the upcoming Outfest contest (listed on Moviebytes; deadline's 3/29) or the Colorado-based One-in-Ten contest. As for prodcos, many indie companies handle GLBT-themed projects. An internet search based on previously-released GLBT movies will give you a start as to which prodcos handle such a genre. Also, Frameline here in San Fran holds each year the largest GLBT film festival in the world. Check out their website.

On the other hand...ahem...if your s/p is of the type that conveys the message that all that gays and lesbians need is the love of Christ and a supportive, educative fellowship...and that, with God's love and a little prayer...those sinful urges will go away...thus preaching that, yes Virginia, you too can be straight!...Well, then, a word of advice with respect to said script:

Burn it!

Author: Steven Karels Posted: 02/26/02 06:11 PM

Jimmy,

If only Life were so simple. The theme of the screenplay does not take a position on whether homosexuality is good or bad. After all, homosexuality is not even one of the seven deadly sins. (Pride, Greed, Envy, Sloth, Gluttony, Wrath and Lust for those who want to know). This s/p deals with Pride and Wrath.

Yes, the protagonist, Mark, does eventually walk away from homosexuality but he is not lead, educated, bashed nor beaten upon by this author. The theme of the s/p is intolerance within the Church. Nothing more, nothing less.

The greater road that Mark follows is resolving his relationship with his father, a mean spirited Baptist preacher dying of stomach cancer, forgiveness in the death of another "trash person" Audrey at the hands of a bigoted Christian policeman and a treacherous conspriracy within his own church to use him and those like him as a weapon against the minister by people opposed to change and openess within the Church.

So, whether you agree or not on the "good or bad" of homosexuality, the thematic issue is intolerance. I neither call for a social opening up of the Church nor condemn all gays. That is an issue I carefully attempted to avoid.

An interesting note: My first version of the story had Mark remaining as a practicing homosexuality as he came to terms with his life and his relationship with God. The sexual transition just sort of wrote itself into the story.

Steve

Author: Jimmy B. Posted: 02/26/02 08:49 PM

Steve...sounds like a compelling story...except that it is, at its heart, flawed. From a marketing perspective, such a dénouement would appeal only to fundamentalists and would, because of it’s implied message, offend both the gay community and Hollywood’s liberal elite.

I have to ask: Are you gay? If you are, then why would you choose to have Mark "walk away from his homosexuality?" Do heterosexuals, when faced with external sexual conflict, walk away from their inborn heterosexuality? No, of course not. It's unheard of, except in rare cases where one joins the Catholic priesthood (don’t even get me started on THAT hypocrisy.)

Regardless of what we as writers would like to have others (and ourselves) believe, our characters are not real, free-thinking people; they don't influence and decide their own fates, but rather we, their creators, their pen-wielding Gods, do. And as Gods, we writers are sadly subject by our own hand-me-down opinions and social imprinting. If you are straight, Steven, then I, as a gay writer, would implore that you rethink Mark's fate. If he's truly gay, then allow him his truth, and his dignity...allow him to walk away from, not homosexuality, but from the lies, pain and personal decay wrought by a life of sexual repression and self-denial. Give the man some hope; give him a humanity that, although presently and wrongfully denied, is entitled to certain, inalienable rights: The right to life, love, and the pursuit of happiness--his GOD-GIVEN rights.

Again, I ask, would a heterosexual, faced with an analogous intolerance, make such a sacrificial--and unnatural--decision?

Author: Steven Karels Posted: 02/26/02 10:30 PM

Jimmy,

You present a well-thoughtout, compelling argument for the character Mark to remain as he started. Interesting, the subtheme is only sprinkled lightly within about three scenes and comes to its conclusion only in the last scene. I will reconsider Mark's change.

Steve

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 02/26/02 10:37 PM

Dude,

Don't be influenced by these people. You asked for information on contests and prodcos that might be interested in your work, and they are out there.

Personally, I think that someone who believes homosexuality ought to be, and can be, walked away from should write a script about it, if that's their desire. If someone thinks that Christ can cure homosexuality, then they ought to make that the theme to their script. The same goes for someone who thinks abortion is murder, or someone who thinks the American federal government is the current evil empire of the world.

The theme of someone's script has to be what they truly believe, not what they think others believe.

Also, I've known a couple homosexual men who have turned straight. I think it makes obvious the fact that they were never intrinsically gay, and that they were swayed by a desire to be chic. After all, anyone who thinks all the people taking part in homosexual activities are actually all gay is as mislead as those who believe nobody is born gay, and that it's a simple decision, not something innate.

Suggesting that someone burn a script because you don't agree with the theme is outrageous. I'm slightly disconcerted with most of the themes I see in films and tv shows. "40 Days and 40 Nights" seems to prioritize sex over all other aspect of the human condition, "Sex and the City" portrays women as being mentally and emotionally masculine (which intelligent people recognize as parody, but simpletons see as something to emulate), "The West Wing" portrays the white house as being full of people who actually care about the welfare of the American general public. I admit, none of these premises or themes really bother me, I just find them insulting.

I am glad that they exist though, because it leaves an intelligent audience starved for something meaningful.

Hey, I don't really think you'd let anyone influence you; I just wanted to say that not all scripts about homosexuality need to point out the challenging plight of gay people. Don't get me wrong, I don't like intolerance either, and I wish people who are actually gay would have an easier time of it.

BTW, one of my favorite lines from a movie is from "Boiler room", when the stock brokers go to Manhattan and the tough, little guy says to the gay guy, "They ought to take you all and stick you on an island somewhere", to which the gay guy replies, "Hey, guess what...you're on it."

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 02/26/02 10:48 PM

Hey, I agree with Jimmy.

There's no greater ideal for a character, or a person, to believe in than freedom. I wouldn't want to see a gay man walk away from his natural sexuality in effort of conforming, but if he's smoking the balogna pony just to be cool, then it would make just as much sense for him to walk away from that and decide that he won't conform to doing something he's not naturally compelled to do just in attempt of being stylish.

Author: Jimmy B. Posted: 02/27/02 12:10 AM

Steven,

Readers and audiences care only about theme in so much as they care about the hero. I interpreted from your earlier post that Mark is your hero (or protagonis) and the theme, "intolerance," is the fire-breathing dragon he battles. If, in the end, Mark slays the dragon, but lives the rest of his life afraid of fire...

...then the dragon, though it may have lost the battle, won the war, as it ultimately effected the hero's future outlook and way-of-life.

What has me a bit confused about your story is this: If Mark is, indeed, the protagonist...and if the villain he battles is, indeed, religious intolerance (be it his father's or the church's), then how can the issue of his homosexuality be relegated to merely a subtheme? Think about it. If YOUR heterosexuality were at stake, would you consider it to be so minor? Our sexuality drives us through life; it profoundly shapes what we think, who we are, and ultimately, who we will spend the rest of our lives with. Our sexuality lies at our very core; modern society confirms this day in, day out, with a constant barage of cultural messages--music, advertising, literature, fashion, tv, cinema. With such overwhelming and often mixed messages, how can the issue of Mark's homosexuality be so secondarily a "subtheme?" (If Mark is, as I interpreted, the protagonist.)

Lastly, an aside to Brandon: You little fence-sitter, you!!! ;)

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 02/27/02 01:04 AM

After reading Jimmy's post, I might want to change my stance here.

Maybe stories involving sexuality are best left to gay writers. I don't think I've thought these issues through nearly as well as Jimmy; I just know I want some leg every once in a while.

Author: Jimmy B. Posted: 02/27/02 02:15 AM

Brandon,

Sorry if my post(s) made you feel side-lined, but my deeper reflection about sexuality isn't due so much to my gay status as it is to my professional leaning: I lecture at college campuses on the subject of human sexuality. It is through these lectures that I hope to inspire all people, both straights and gays...to push them to THINK, to apply what we know today in terms of medical, genetic, and mammalian physiology toward our understanding of variations in human sexual behavior...and to measure such incontrovertible evidence against antiquated religious dogma.

In the 1960s Martin Luther King led a movement against racial injustice; were his speeches for change and empowerment heard only by his fellow blacks...then we'd all, blacks and whites, still be wallowing in a segregated, ignorant society. But King and his movement leaders knew too well that the key to change meant reaching the majority white society, prodding them to THINK and to PUT themselves in the place of blacks. Once put, no feeling, thinking white could, with good moral conscience, deny the ongoing social oppression or history of constitutional exclusion of their darker cousins.

So it is with my last couple posts. My last wish is for readers, Brandon included, to withdraw because of lack of confidence in the subject matter. Rather, my posts purposefully offered analogies and generalizations, so to speak to all, not to just gays. Straights, today, are born into a world of assumed heterosexuality much as whites, in the pre-civil rights days, were born into a world of white superiority. Sadly, it's not until someone hits them over the head with a two-pound brick, or a finger-pointing posting, that straights/whites either muster up or buckle under. As blacks depended upon whites' support and numbers during the civil rights marches, so now do gays depend upon straights. If you truly believe in freedom--be ye gay, straight, or indifferent--then have ye, all, the balls to take a stand, excuses be damned...

Ignorance, Brandon, is no excuse.

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 02/27/02 02:57 AM

Jimmy,

If you really want to know what I think, I'll tell you.

I think that gay rights activists go a bit too far. Like someone (I think you) said in an earlier post, we are desensitized by images, ideologies, and occurrences of all types, especially when it comes to sexuality. There aren't an overwhelming number of bisexual women in this country right now because women have always been bisexual and just recently freed to act out on their impulses, but the cause of this phenomena is the desensitization of women by the degree of exposure they have to images of the female form.

Our entire society has come to regard the female body, usually nearly naked, as a thing of beauty, and I agree that it is, but through advertising and the whole media in general, we've all been bombarded with these images to the point where a new sexual urge has been implanted in the minds of naturally heterosexual women.

A few thousand years ago, the Greeks did the same thing with the male form, which is why so many Greek men spent their leisure time plugging each other and humping little boys.

If you agree that homosexuality exists naturally, then you must agree that an abnormal rate of homosexuality must coincide with unnatural stimuli.

Teaching young children to experiment with homosexuality, and attempting to make homosexuality exist in rates equal to heterosexuality using devices such as same sex marriages is tampering with nature. Just why is it that gay rights activists want children to form the impression that homosexuality occurs naturally in rates equal to heterosexuality? You don’t think it does, do you?

I have to tell you, I would have a hard time feeling compelled to debate with someone who doesn’t agree that life’s effort to exist will always lean towards creating a situation where a species propagates itself, as opposed to inactivity in that endeavor. Why are we sexually attracted to anything in the first place? Instinct always favors survival, in the being, but mainly in the species; Salmon would live longer if they didn’t swim upstream. Usually, the instinct for the being to survive serves the purpose of propagating the species.

Also, I don’t want to hear about how the world is becoming overpopulated and homosexuality is a healthy thing to keep the population from growing too fast, because cognitive thought and instinct are so far away from each other that they aren’t even related. After all, our subconscious mind makes our conscious mind feel hungry every time we have no food in our stomach, and it’s been thousands of years since the fat outlived the skinny.

Regarding homosexuality, I say, "let it occur naturally, don't promote it, don't dissuade it, and let society mimic nature".

Author: Jimmy B. Posted: 02/27/02 03:19 AM

Whoa...

Ya just never know who's lurking on these boards...and boy did I stumble upon a doozie.

Rush Limbaugh...getting warm. Pat Robertson...oooh, heatin' up.

Brandon Smith...OH, YOUZA...burnin' like a KKK torchlight on a lynchin' Southern night!!!

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 02/27/02 03:51 AM

Jimmy,

I'm no conservative; I just enjoy a good logical debate, which is what you just brought down to the level of a personal attack.

I think it's pretty funny that the guy who wrote about people buckling under just backed down from a debate on an issue, which he was declaring himself an expert.

I guess it's a good thing that they schedule no opposing viewpoint speakers on the same days that you appear at all these colleges and universities.

Tell me this, if you're not too timid to reply once more; is everyone who doesn't agree with your vision of Utopia a member of the KKK?

Do us all a favor, stop wasting good money and get yourself a meaningful objective in life. Gay people aren't persecuted; they just aren't allowed to transform society into an Orwellian nightmare.

Author: Steven Karels Posted: 02/27/02 07:17 AM

To all,

When I started to write this screenplay about intolerance within the Church I looked for a character with a condition that would strike a LITTLE controversy. So I made Mark Gay. I researched on the Internet and found Exodus International and read some of the testimonies.

The character could have easily been over-weight (Yes, fat people are discriminated against and some do give up their innate tendency to be heavy to conform to society's goals) or smoke pot or chase women or do any number of other things considered a sin and also socially unacceptable by American norms.

I wanted to strike a match to bring some light into the world. But the last thing I thought that I would be doing was to find I was doing it in the middle of a gasoline factory. BOOM!

The story is about intolerance. The character is slowly, inwardly changed by and through God's love. This is not to say that everyone of the same condition has to change or that you're evil and undeserving if you don't change or somehow less important. I go to great lengths to show that (in my story) God accepts us, all of us, as we are. The title of the script is Your Precious Child and I will be submitting it to OUTFEST.

I expect to be soundly defeated because of polarized attitiudes expressed in the above postings. But sometimes a script compels the writer to write. Perhaps it might even open a dialogue between a few members of each side and a bridge can be built and a few cross at least half way to meet.

Steve

P.S.

I never burn scripts although I have been tempted to hit the Delete button.

SNK

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 02/27/02 09:26 AM

Steve,

I'm also writing a script that will be passed on by many because of certain industry taboos. I haven't written about religion or politics or anything, but I am writing about something that scares a lot of readers away. I wish I could change it, because I really want to sell it, but I'm stuck feeling passionate about this story right now.

I have to say, I'm really not religious, and I'm damn sure no believer in Christ, but I can respect your faith. I'm also no Republican or Democrat or one of those people stuck in the middle, like moderates or independents. I abhor the simple minds that serve as proponents of the liberal or conservative ideology, but I can respect their beliefs....I guess.

With that said, I just want to give some advice, whether you asked for it or not.

There seems to be a real problem in scripts all over the place concerning gay people. I don't know if it's straight or gay people who get so wrapped up in the idea of being gay that they forget to make the character about anything else, but in my opinion, it makes the character one dimensional and boring. I'll give examples.

There's a movie on cable now about a Scottish hairdresser who mistakenly comes to America to compete in the "Platinum Scissors" competition. The star of the movie is the boss (Mr. Wick, I think), from the Drew Carry Show. The character is gay, but the story isn't about him being gay at all, he just happens to be gay. In fact, he's extravagantly gay, and this makes him much more interesting to watch. That's a good movie; I wish I knew the name of it.

In "Wonder Boys", Robert Downey, Jr. plays Mike Douglas' gay agent, and he shows up in the beginning with a transvestite. He's so gay that he ends up sleeping with the younger writer in the story; he ends up turning him. Robert Downey, Jr's character is gay and horney, but none of the story is really about him being gay, so it simply makes him more interesting. That's a great movie, and a good character.

Both of those characters I mentioned were complex individuals who happened to be gay.

Now, here's my bad example, and most people are going to think I'm an idiot for writing this, but here goes. In "As Good As It Gets", the part played by Greg Kinear(sp?) is about absolutely nothing but being gay. He's a gay man who just happens to be an artist, and every single one of his problems stem from the fact that he's gay. His father hates him because he's gay, he gets beat up because he's gay, and I even think the writer made him a bit of a wimp, just because he's gay. There is nothing to that character at all besides being gay. I really liked parts of this film, but I was so bored when we went into this long and detailed part of the plot that dealt with him being gay. Couldn't he have happened to be gay while at least some of his problems stemmed from somewhere else? It's true, they beat him up to rob him, but he was painting young men simply because he was gay, so it's still connected to him being gay.

I think that a character can be a lot of things, but when they are only about what they are, and when that's only one thing, then I tend to get a little bored. I think that a character who is brilliant should just happen to be brilliant, not only be brilliant. Whatever the case is, it bores me.

I tried to watch "Six Feet Under", and that gay guy was about nothing but being gay too. Even when he spoke to his own mother, it was always a dance around the fact that he's gay. Last night I saw an add for a new "Six Feet Under", and the gay guy is standing there talking about being gay; give me a damn break. I can understand "Queer As Folk" focusing on the issue, but it's not necessary that a gay character be about nothing but homosexuality

Author: grover grant Posted: 02/27/02 03:40 PM

Steven: I didn't read all the posts, here. The subject is a complete turnoff, for me. How about a Protestant church story about the self righteous Bible thumpers who criticize Hindus and Buddhists? Some of them worship Jesus more than any Catholic or Protestant reverend of church member. The criteria is: can they perform miracles in times of need or instructions and guidance for acolytes? Suma Ching Hai, designs clothes and jewelry in order to pay her way around the world with her spiritual message. On one program she was asked questions in Italian and she answered in English. Her Himalayan master, who initiated her, waited 45o years for her to appear. I don't know everything. Sounds right to me. An American told me his friend was following her, in a building, and she turned a corner and vanished! Fascinating world! Good luck. What happened to Deb Havener? She used to contribute some useful info on this site? GG travels the world

Author: sonya smith Posted: 03/04/02 03:59 AM

Steven writes:

"The character is slowly, inwardly changed by and through God's love. This is not to say that everyone of the same condition has to change or that you're evil and undeserving if you don't change or somehow less important. I go to great lengths to show that (in my story) God accepts us, all of us, as we are."

Whenever I hear arguments such as that presented above, I toss back: If the "condition" referenced were skin color, i.e., if one were black, as opposed to gay, would...or rather, COULD you present the same argument, without being labeled a racist? No, of course not, because being black is not a "condition". Being black is not something that God's love, no matter how almighty, can change. Likewise, gay is not a "condition", anymore than race is. It's a luck of the genetic draw. It's not a 'lifestyle' or a controllable 'condition', such as being predisposed to obesity. Yes, I whole-heartedly agree, overweight persons are, unquestionably discriminated against. However...HOWEVER, simply being overweight does not relegate one to a second class citizenry. The overweight, as long as they declare their heterosexuality, are free to marry, free to publicly express their affection for their opposite-sex partners, free to all the legal perks that hets enjoy under the existing laws that concurrently deny homosexuals THEIR constitutional rights. And, Steven, tell me, how many overweight heterosexuals are, each year, attacked, beaten, and killed because of their "condition"? Matthew Shepherd. Ring a bell? The states which currently have laws specific to "hate crimes" do so with respect to minorities of race, religion and sexual orientation; they do not include conditions such as obesity, as there is not a sufficient record of criminal incidence to justify it.

If you're fully intent on submitting to OUTFEST, I'd suggest you educate yourself more seriously on gay issues. Get to know gay people. Ask them about their lives and experiences. Brandon, a poster whose remarks wreak of "acceptable" bigotry, repeatedly mentioned how sick he was of gays being too obsessed with their own gayness. This is the perspective of one who has no clue as to what it is to be gay in a gay-hating society...or to be any minority of oppression, for that matter. This is the very sentiment echoed forty years ago during the civil rights movement by whites who condescended to the outcries of an entire oppressed black nation, people whose cries simply called for equality: to rights constitutionally accorded them but daily, and often violently, denied. Remember, Christians not so long ago, justified their abuse and social oppression of blacks through "God's word" and the "word of the bible" and today, it's the same--only now that Christian sword of holier-than-thou judgement is levied at society's last remaining scapegoat: gays. The only reason whites/Christians stopped using God/the Bible against blacks was because they were forced to, by federal law...and the fear of race riots. Because gays are less organized and less prone to physical aggression, we have been and continue to be fair game for Christian persecution. Steven, imagine OUTFEST were a black writers' contest, not one for gays, and imagine submitting the premise of "a gay man slowly and inwardly changes, through God's love..." Despite what you may think, to gays and lesbians, this is NOT a gay-positive message. God loves and accepts us for who or what we are...without the CONDITION of change. Don't ask a black to change their skin color. Don't ask someone who's inherently gay...or straight...to change their sexual orientation in order to gain God's love. To do so is not only an hypocrisy, but an indictment of--not the church's--but one's own intolerance.

Frederick, as you've tried to censure me by deleting my original registration, I suspect you'll delete this one too. Have at it. It won't stop me from speaking out on gay rights or rightfully pointing a finger at those who would promote anti-gay, anti-civil rights sentiments. By censuring me, and the voice of the gay community, it's clear which side of humanity's fence you stand on.

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 03/04/02 05:11 AM

Ms. Smith,

What constitutional rights are gay people denied?

Also, I resent being referred to as a "poster", whatever that means. I assure you, I'm three-dimensional.

As for your assumption that I have no idea what the mindset of a member of a minority community might be, you're dead wrong; I am a minority. I'm a member of the minority community most persecuted in the entire history of civilization.

The only thing I’ve ever had a problem with, concerning the gay rights movement, is the attempt, by extremists, to use public schools as a way to encourage homosexuality in students too young to have developed the way they will naturally. If the actual gay rights movement, and the people in favor of same sex marriages, aren’t part of that extreme wing, then they should make obvious the distinction. Same sex marriages was probably a good idea at one time, but the extremists who want to live in a free-sex, free-for-all, ½ gay ½ straight world…they took it upon themselves to use same sex marriages as a way to gain a foothold, and their destination of choice for their propaganda is the public school system.

Now, make yourself some "poster" boards and go stand outside of the Catholic church. Trust me when I say, you won't be seeing me there, for any reason whatsoever.

Author: Steven Karels Posted: 03/04/02 05:58 AM

Sonya,

I think this post has run it course. I originally sought guidance on contests, etc and I have received that information. Thank you all.

There are obviously strong opinions on both sides of the issue of homosexuality and I respect each side's right to their opinions. It is time to end this post and move on to other issues.

My script's synopsis has been passed on by many producers and requested by a couple of producers. The contests mentioned above will do whatever with the script. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, I'm starting to write a story about an elf princess. I hope we don't have any elf-lovers or haters out there to stir up the fires.

Steve

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 03/04/02 01:24 PM

Elfs ruined my neighborhood! They hang around on the corner selling magic powders and listening to lair music; why don't they go get jobs?

"Who let all this riff-raff into the room?"

"There's one smoking a joint, and another with spots!"

"If I had my way, I'd have all of you shot!" --Roger Waters

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 03/04/02 01:25 PM

Elfs ruined my neighborhood! They hang around on the corner selling magic powders and listening to lair music; why don't they go get jobs?

"Who let all this riff-raff into the room?"

"There's one smoking a joint, and another with spots!"

"If I had my way, I'd have all of you shot!" --Roger Waters

Author: Steven Karels Posted: 03/04/02 06:18 PM

Brandon,

The plural of Elf is Elves. Sorry to hear about your neighborhood.

Steve

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 03/04/02 08:07 PM

Elfs...Elves...they all look the same to me!

Author: Mitchell Bailey Posted: 03/04/02 09:06 PM

Brandon.... e-mail me, please. I want to discuss a possible project.

Look in my profile or:

bailey44_us@yahoo.com

Thanks, Mitch go

Author: Craig Schwartz Posted: 03/04/02 11:47 PM

Can I post my worthless $.02?

The problem with issues like homosexuality -- and especially, abortion -- and the Christain faith, is that they are hopelessly horn-locked.

The Christain faith (and other faiths) teaches that abortion is a sin: nothing is going to change that. It teaches that -- not homosexuality, but homosexual-sexuality, is a sin: nothing is going to change that.

If you want to be a Christian, you can't deny the Word. But why should the other side deny anything? They shouldn't either.

These forces will continue to swirl and butt heads, until one side gains enough strength to overcome the other. Peace, understanding... I dunno: I see it as a playful myth, or game. both sides must exist in their own universes until the day of reckoning; and unless one side or the other is willing to compromise -- and neither should, or will -- you will have the same small skirmishes, until that future battle royale which will decide the war and the prevailing opinion.

Because, apparently, neither side can live in silent peace.

But where am I mistaken?

Craig

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 03/05/02 01:42 AM

Tru dat...Tru dat, yo!

Craig, only thing is, nobody who believes that abortion is a sin is going to post that here on this MB.

Same with homosexuality, even though Steve almost let the cat out of the bag-- Oh no! Bad pun, very bad pun! "Coming out" and "pussy" cats mentioned in the same sentence is enough to make some of these people tear themselves in half.

I have very little opinion on either subject; it's sad to say, but all my sympathy has been used up on animals and people I actually know. I wish I felt passionately about abortion, but I don't. Also, I have, pretty much, no opinion on homosexuality, except to feel the need to make some argument against the same old, tired, politically correct argument that's being made here.

To think that some people actually feel they are a force of rebellion, as they feed us lines from arguments all ready digested a million times over.

All I want to see is something new. The reason my attempt to debate here, even if I was just playing devil's advocate, failed in every turn, is that by definition, a debate is the elevation of ideas through argument, and none of these gay rights activists did anything but repeat things they've heard before, like the old civil rights analogy.

Good arguments, I agree; they are just old.

Author: Mitchell Bailey Posted: 03/05/02 08:39 AM

In my opinion....

Let nature take her course. Homosexuals should be allowed to progress their species ONLY through their own procreation. That should thin out the herd reasonably fast.

As far as drugs and/or abortion, both should be MANDATORY.

Author: brandon Smith Posted: 03/05/02 09:22 AM

They have a powerful lobby, and should mandates be passed only allowing gay parents the children they can produce without surrogate help, the scientific world and pharmaceutical companies would solve this problem and bring life to a whole new generation of ass-babies.